2010 Vermont Candidates Debates: Governor

Ford for this program on Vermont Public Television is supported by viewers like you. Ad by the Rutland Herald and Times Argus Vermonter own and now available anywhere in an exact replica of the printed newspaper. Additional information available at BT news hound dot com. Tonight V P t's 2010 candidate debates begin with the governors debate with all the candidates on the ballot invited to participate. Here's moderators steward led better. Good evening. I'm Stuart lead better news channel 5 NV Petey's Vermont this week and we welcome you. We're very pleased to broadcast tonight the very first debate of this year to feature all seven candidates on the ballot for governor of Vermont. Six are in attendance here tonight and they are Brian do be the nominee of

the Republican Party from Essex Chris Erickson from Chester on the United States marijuana ticket. BEN MITCHELL of Westminster representing the Liberty Union Party. Emily Peyton of Putney and independent Peter Shumlin of Putney the nominee of the Democratic Party and Dennis Steele of Kirby and independent. The rules tonight are few Everyone gets a shot at my question answers to one minute please send a mix up the order as we go along. Follow up will be at the moderator's discretion everyone gets a minute at the end for closing statements. This is Laura Walsh. Keep the time for our audience at home we invite your feedback throughout this event log on to the P.T. dot org where you'll find Ann Galloway of Vermont Degger dot org hosting the online chat.

Now to our first question. It's about leadership. How would Vermont change with you in charge Brian Duby. I think I would bring. Home A Family. I come from a family of six I'm the middle child in a family of six. I learned as being the middle child to bring people together. I hone those skills when I was chairman of my home town school board. I learned I worked collaboratively with fellow school board members. I've continued to display that leadership as Vermont's lieutenant governor solving complex problems. Lead a petition drive to strengthen our loss to protect children spend by probates the chair of the governor's commission on Healthy Aging I've chaired the governor's Homeland Security Advisory Council. I've worked as a presiding officer of the Vermont Senate. And the next governor is going to need to bring people together. We face historic challenges in our budget. Vermonters are looking for work and are looking for solutions. And it's going to take people working collaboratively to reform our regulatory process to close the gap in this historic budget and we challenge you to set aside partisanship and to to acknowledge our state although it's a great state there's a lot of

things that we can do to work to lower taxes and that's the kind of leader I would be. Chris I'm showing leadership and raising new issues that no other candidate is willing to raise. Everything from marijuana decriminalization which Peter Shumlin wavers on like a ship at sea to issues that are raised in the United States code such as a citizen's right to file a citizen petition to the Environmental Protection Agency to stop from nuclear energy. Despite what the state legislature does and despite what the federal court actions may take to overcome and bypass the state legislature citizens can file a citizen petition under 15 United States code and not only put an end to Vermont Yankee but make certain that we now ver have a nuclear power plant in Vermont ever again. So I'm raising issues that the

other candidates are talking about as well as the B5 program. We'll hopefully get into some of these things today. I bring you new issues and that's leadership. Thanks Ben Michel. Well thank you very much for Vermont Public Television for including me tonight Liberty Union is not always invited and we're very grateful to be here and speak for them when I say that Nicholas and Lucy you guys have to go to bed when this is over and done. And how would it change if I were the governor. Well I have not raised a single penny. So anything I say tonight will be what I truly believe and that I think makes me a very different kind of candidate than many that we see as a socialist. You know my agenda would be to bring many of the industries that have been having their way with the citizens of the United States back into the control of the people. My primary goal as governor would be to create a labor bubble the value of labor has been

seriously decreasing over the past 30 years since 1980 really. And we need. It's time for the people of the state to get a raise. Thanks Emily Payton. What I will bring to this to this state is a method so that we can restore the power of money to the people. Right now we have a two party system that's owned by corporate America so we aren't saying the will of the people carried out when I am governor. I'll be able to use specific means so that we can become recession proof and we can return the power of the people to the government. I believe that the the corporate government that we have right now is is imperiling the earth. And I'm here because I want to stand up for stopping that also stopping war because war is insanity. And I think that the people who carry it out have insanity in themselves and I know that there

are measures that we can take here in Vermont to stop empowering it. And I want to pose. I would very much change with you in charge Peter Shumlin. Well I think there's two answers to that Stuart The first is my experience and the second is my vision and my experience. Here's where I come from. I was born and raised in Vermont built a small business. My brother and I bought it from our parents and we built it into a great success. I will be the first business person that has been elected governor that's met a bottom line created jobs turned a profitable company into a profitable company more profitable company since Dick Snelling. And I think it shows I think that one of the reasons that government is in such trouble in Montpelier right now is we haven't had a business person running a show in a long time. Second my vision. I personally am sick and tired of Democrats Republicans people from all parties who run for election just to get re-elected. I don't I won't my job will be to get tough things done I have proven as your Senate leader that I can get tough things done that I have a

vision for where we need to go and that I'm not afraid to take on the tough challenge that we need to accomplish to put Vermonters back to work. Still I'm the leader of the Vermont liberation movement. I'm also going to leave Vermont and by calling for the return of Vermont National Guard immediately when taking office. Brian do we colonel do we and the aristocrat Shumlin do not get it. This is not business as usual we have a crashing dollar we have a high gold prices high as it's ever been. We have problems that we're not. Vermont is not in charge of its destiny. They even though they were elected governor they are not going to be able to do the things that need to be done. That means getting control of our food supply. That means getting control of our energy getting control of our foreign policy and getting control of our monetary system. Those are the things we need to do in order to take control of our own destiny. And that's what I'll do. I will leave Vermont to a peaceful populous revolution in order to liberate ourselves from the federal government's what's needed to do its what's needed to be done and what it's what's needed to be talked about and brought to the table and discuss

logically I also call on the Vermont legislature to convene a special session to determine whether Vermont should become an independent republic. Thank you Dennis. Let's talk about the huge challenge ahead for the next governor certainly the next legislature to my knowledge none of you has laid out exactly how you'd close the whopping budget gap that we're looking at at least a hundred twelve million dollars it could be more. Let's start with you Ben Mitchell. A couple of things that you think Vermont may just have to do without and are tax increases of any kind an option. Well I totally disagree with you. I think that the idea of you pose a question as if our only choices are to raise taxes or to reduce services in a business. If you have a shortfall you could raise prices or you could reduce the value of your product or you could look for alternate sources of income. And as a socialist one of my agree with Emily that we need to have a Vermont credit union where the state of Vermont rather than sending our state budget resources down to the big

casino in New York City we should use that. Create loans create a socialized banking system that creates loans for small businesses and can get people out of the the usury system that they're in now. Also if I were Governor I would pardon all nonviolent drug offenders serving time in Vermont or Kentucky prisons creating. You could not incarcerate a drug user who had an victimless crime. In my administration that's freeing up all of that money immediately creating a new tax base. And that's the end of my time. What might you cut. Would tax increases be an option. I'm not going to speak about any particular cuts. What I would do is immediately initiate a massive E5 federal government program in order to create new jobs because when people are working they're paying taxes. So to get more money into the budget rather than cutting I would immediately create a lot of new jobs with the E.P. 5

program. And those people would pay taxes. You'd have the budget money without cutting now. Vermonters haven't made adequate use of the Eby five federal government program. If you have a family and you need food stamps and you don't apply you're really missing out if you have a family and you don't know and you need fuel assistance and you don't apply you're really missing out. The state of Vermont is not adequately using the B5 program. It's been used by ski areas it's been used by Springfield hospital. But what it does is allow wealthy foreigners to invest 1 1/2 million dollars or more into new businesses I'll set up a gov website to match up for minors who want to start a new business with the foreigners who want to win best and I will create 1000 to 3000 new businesses a year in Vermont. Question to you. OK. Our budget deficit can be simply taken care of with the Wall Street sales tax otherwise known as Tobin tax which is already levied in New York state but it's also rebated. Go

figure. However we also so that will discourage the hedge fund trading and it will also pay down our deficit. There are other ways that we can get income. We need a full industry here hemp for curative reasons because we need to have a way to not deplete the soil and grow something that will make our paper industry our clothing industry killers melanomas it cures cancers. We need it here. It will bring a lot of income to the state. That being said we also need to talking like a mile a minute because this is something we should have an entire debate on just this topic. Then a stale cut or tax increases an option for you. Well the first thing I would do is I would do my best to do everything I can to cut the federal government out of our lives. The Vermont needs to become an independent Republican Here's some of the reasons why Vermont why the United States government's out of control we have a thousand bases in a hundred fifty three countries we are an empire. We're spending a trillion dollars a year on a foreign policy that is

ridiculous that we do not need to do. We do not need to be spending that money with the United States governors 12 trillion dollar debt. You add in Fannie Mae Freddie Mac to that it brings up to 900 trillion you put in the unfunded liabilities. So Security Medicaid and Medicare that's another 60 trillion trillion dollars that's about 80 trillion dollars which is that represents $200000 per household in the United States. That's what we have to do Vermont's pro-rata share of the U.S. Defense Department budget is 2 billion dollars per year in order to stop this waste of money and bring that money back to Vermont so that we can do the right thing put it into agriculture put it into our schools put it into all the programs that the people of Vermont feel is important. Senator Shelby let me first say I'm the only one on this panel who has served on the Appropriations Committee written budgets negotiated budgets voted on budgets experience matters. Having said that we have a short term and a long term problem short term. I would do the three following things to help reduce this deficit. First

is I would go after the 250 million dollars worth of outside contracts and put them on performance based contracts which in private industry saves you 10 to 12 percent first year that's 25 million savings we could get there. Second I would go after the numerous independent contractors that this administration has brought in as they've decimated the state workforce and look very carefully at that spending. Third I will appoint commissioners and secretaries who can speak for themselves and don't need spin people press people that high pay to cover them. Finally I disagree with Brian on this. I'm going to fight for the middle class not give tax breaks to the fourteen hundred Vermonters who make the most money. Three hundred seventy three thousand dollars a year so that I can cut budgets for everybody you know. It's. Well first of all we're talking about balancing next year's budget so I'd ask my opponent to be responsible with my proposals which are around in 2013 for 2014 and 2015. We're going to have to make tough choices. One thing I can make a commitment is public safety would be a

priority as would programs like Dr. dinosaur as would programs for protecting seniors. Those are priorities of our state and they would be a priority of my administration I would continue to expand like we're already doing with performance based contracting under challenges for change challenges for change was a tri partisan initiative with the legislature an administrative branch. It's controversial but it's doing what it was intended to do we need to expand across all of state government. We're going to have to look at pensions. We're going to have to have the conversation like we had with our state teachers with state employees. It's a difficult conversation but we're going to have to do that. We're going to think about going from defined benefits to defined contributions. We're going to have to do what families are doing across the state. We're going to have to put our spending on a sustainable trajectory like families are doing we're going to prioritize protect the most vulnerable and make some tough decisions. Let's ask about education. A new idea that we've heard in this campaign for Senator Sheldon is is to provide an a

new program a thirty five million dollar a year program offering free preschool care to three and four year olds. We'd like to ask the panel what do you think of this idea Emily Peyton. Well we start Well I'd like to see an increase in funding for home schooling. It is the home schoolers who are bringing up the independent thinkers they're paying for education twice. Yes I think that the people who are having to work these are less than livable wages need to have help in bringing up their children because they don't have any free time to take them. So I'm not a complete advocate for sending the children out early in in their in their lives to be schooled by a corporate federal government so that they can become consumers and so that they can join the machine to go out and learn how to kill people. We need to be teaching peace. Just just sending them to school isn't enough we need to listen to what they need to look what they want to

learn. They want to learn how to save our planet how to stop polluting how to live in peace how to get along and that isn't being taught in schools. Do you think of this idea. We're not going to do well you know I compiled a list in addition to Senator showmance 33 million dollars to universal pre-K. There's there's a number of ideas and and I've asked myself a number of occasions. You know Senator Shumlin has said he's not into taxes but the list of new programs that he has on record for supporting is quite extensive and would require significant new funding. I have proposed an initiative to address the need for universal pre-K. I talk about trying to balance the fact that we're going to lose over the next decade another eighty five hundred students in our K-12 population gives us opportunities to better balance our pre-K and our higher ed. We don't spend enough money as a state in our Higher Ed and I think we could make more investments in pre-K.

And when you think about our per pupil spending on a K-12 system it presents opportunities as we lose children going forward to rebalance the allocation of resources. I also proposed tax credits as a part of my jobs plan that said Brian to dot com and I'd like to ask and what occurred encourage him to review that in detail. All right. What do you think of this idea can we afford it. Well I think first of all we're missing the point as to exactly what the real problem is. I think if we're going to teach our kids what's right and what's wrong we need good leaders in Vermont. And that leader is going to have to address the fact that there are 6000 U.S. dead soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan of U.S. soldiers 100000 of them wounded U.S. soldiers committing suicide at higher rates than any time since recorded in 1980 coronal duty and also military 20 percent of all suicides are made up of U.S. soldiers at this point in time in the United States all the suicides in the States. I'm for a locally funded schools locally controlled schools bringing the control

back to the local communities where they can work with the parents and the communities and the teachers to come up with their curriculum. So in order if we want to address this problem we're going to have to address the two billion dollars which is Vermont's program a share of the U.S. Defense Department budget in order to save those programs and put more in place. We have can do a lot with that money it's really important we have a leader in place in Montpellier that's willing to do that. But you want to defend this idea. Yes I do. Let me first talk about why it's important. Listen we know that every dollar spent on early child education saves seven to fourteen dollars later on. That's taxpayer money. More importantly importantly forget about the money. Let's talk about our kids for a minute our most precious resource. We know that if they get an early start earlier we get to them the better chance they have at success and successful kids make great employees do well in school and do well in the job force. That's one of the ways we create jobs in Vermont by having trained workers who learn well to read to do all the things that we expect them to do. Finally

women women in Vermont make horrid choices mostly moms between the job they want the child there or the childcare they can afford. So let's get it done. Having said that I never said in the first year in these tough budget times I'm a business person I'm fiscally conservative I understand reality. I did not say that would we spend thirty two million dollars next January. I simply threw out the numbers. It would cost thirty two million dollars for Vermont to give every foreign 5 year old in Vermont a block grant for early child education. We spend 40 million on locking up nonviolent criminals. That's how the math works. Well they say that you can tell everything about a culture by how they treat their elderly and how they treat their young. And I you know I have to sort of recuse myself from actually a language arts teacher at the candle farm school we have a big harvest festival tomorrow please come check it out it's awesome. Amazing place. But I've spent the past year being underemployed as an educator. It's really hard to get a job as an

educator. And I think that we need to spend a lot more money on the state level in order to get our workforce employed in order to drive up wages for two years. For too many years the workers in Vermont have had to take a backseat to the banks and other people playing with our money in the financial industry. And we're constantly talking about some of my opponents would prefer to spend you know 40 50 thousand dollars a year to send our people to prison in Kentucky than to spend $10000 a year to educate them. And we need to invest in our in our populace and our people. And I think it's obscene to do otherwise. Question is about a new program to guarantee early childhood education what do you think my campaign slogan is please. People lovingly educating and saving everyone please. Now I don't see any problem with jacking up the tax on alcoholic beverages to help pay for it. I don't see any problem with

jacking up the tax on cigarettes to pay for it. Just as long as we write a law that says the increased tax on alcohol and cigarettes is guaranteed to go to the preschool program. We know for a fact that preschool helps kids. You know all through their life preschool preschool puts kids ahead now also speeding tickets. I think we can put a tax and a day on speeding tickets and just say to the speeder look obviously you can't read the sign that says the speed limit so that proves we need to you know start kids earlier in school. Thank you very much I want to stay with the education subject for another question and this one asked do we get a control over the rising cost of public education which in recent years has consumed a greater and greater share of all available tax dollars even as enrollments have shrunk. All our e-mail we we got this question from Joel Miller of Addison who wants to know

why some towns stubbornly cling to low enrollment elementary schools which preclude significant savings which might be realized from school and administrative consolidation. Please address your plan for dealing with this issue and Payton. But what I'd like to do is that like to have a discussion about money because all of our issues about our Where are we going to have enough money to do the things we want to do. And there simply isn't a broad understanding of what money is and what money is and where it comes remember that money is. Hey it's a system of faith. There are ways that we can create money in Vermont of Vermont unit of exchange will be very useful. And I know this question is specifically designed to talk about the education. However we're not going to the core of how we can create a monetary system in this debate about the banks that we can create that have already successfully been done in other states.

Once we do that and we create a monetary system that benefits Vermont we will essentially secede from Wall Street and start coding for a place so we can be recession proof and eventually tax free. I don't know how I can tell you this in two minutes you're going to have to take time to learn what I have to share. Dennis Steele how do you how do we how do we realize some of these savings How would you deal with this issue of school consolidation. Well Stuart we have to return the local back to local control back to the local communities need to have local control and locally funded schools. It's important because they will be able to live within their means what they can afford to do. Now back in the peak of Vermont's freedom we had twenty five hundred schools in Vermont and in my home town of Kirby I think it was close to eight. Now there's zero in Kirby. Well I would love to get back to small schools that we can afford that the community can take care of and that they feel meets their needs for that community. And I would also take since I have a few a little bit more time here I'd like to take the time to ask

Colonel dooby if you'd be willing to commit to bringing home the Vermont National Guard if elected governor. Well we'll offer Brian Toohey a chance but what about this question about how would you affect school consolidation because it certainly frustrated Joe Miller and other providers. First of all Dennis I will be there to greet our welcome our soldiers home. I pray for their safety every every day and every night and I pray for their families and it's Vermont's next governor. And as a Vermonter I'm very concerned about their safety and their families so I appreciate the concern. Well this is this has got this issue has gone all the way the Supreme Court has. You're probably familiar with that as a potential commander in chief it would be my concern to bring our soldiers home as soon as Pappa possible consistent with the law. We'll give you some extra time to get back to the question about school consolidation if you would.

First of all I cut myself I cut my teeth at the local level I serve my community five years as a school board chair six years on a school board. I know about local control. The fact is x 60 in some ways weakened the local control by a funding mechanism that that is really driven by a state formula most of which people in the general somebody could explain. School board members are confused certainly taxpayers are confused. It would be my intention to enact legit education funding reform that reconnects local control we have spending right now that is not sustainable we have the highest property taxes in the country. I would look for ways that you could put education spending on a sustainable trajectory. We're going to lose another 85 hundred children in our state. I'm not sure I would start at the elementary level. I would work with our educators. I married an educator. I would work with our principles I would work with our superintendents and as a governor I would convene a conversation and the conversation would how could we enforce reinforce

local control. As we strive to make sure all our resources go in the classroom and build governance structures that consistent with that priority. Thanks. Sanders how has that found you. Well let me first tell you what I will not do. I will not destroy local control which is what Ryan's proposal would do and this is one area where the two of us really respectfully disagree. He's proposed that 2 percent mandated cap to every local community on school spending that undermines town meeting and undermines local control. I think it's an unprecedented grab of power from local communities that decimates the town meeting that I love and respect. I won't do that. This is what I will do. I will give incentives to local communities property tax incentives to decide locally where they might consolidate. And I want to sing another word about this. A governor has to be able to look forward. Eight years ago 10 years ago when I was center president Howard Dean one of our biggest challenges was where do we put all the kids. That's because we had so many jobs employers biggest problem was to find employees which meant young people were here

they had babies. Those babies went to school. If I'm governor I'm going to create jobs. That's what I've been doing all my life. And when we create jobs young people will come in children will come with them. I do not buy the presumption that this is a permanent problem. For Mark. All right. BEN MITCHELL How do you persuade reluctant towns to consolidate or or would you even like to see that happen. Absolutely none. My daughter goes to the Westminster West School which has an enrollment of 18 this year because many stones have been moving over to the center school there's a lot of pressure on the town to close the school. It's an amazing little school it's had movies made about it. And it's it's two minutes from my house my children can ride their bike to this school. They want to close it because they feel it was put in the paper that they would save $200000. There is no evidence to back that up. My understanding the research said that by consolidating supervisory districts you can save money by having fewer superintendents by having fewer higher paid professionals

but actually consolidating schools does not save that much money. The people who donated the land for the school to be built on don't need it with the assumption. So I just say whoever is asking these questions look at your priorities. How can we were nickel and diming the schools who are giving AI G and we're giving Lehman Brothers or whoever that we're giving you know huge subsidies to the nuclear power industry it's obscene what kind of culture if we become. Chris Erickson home schooling is legal in Vermont so we can take another step to get rid of as many administrators and superintendents as possible. We don't need all these layers of bureaucracy and make a deal with teachers for children from kindergarten or preschool up through and including sixth grade. The only things that are important those years are math science reading writing the basics. They don't need anything more than the

basics they need to have the basics soundly grounded in those years when made need to make a deal with teachers. If you take 6 students you get $10000 per student. So you take six students into your home you get $60000. We may need to make many many many many schools that are similar to home schooling but just one teacher and six students and the teacher gets paid 10 $10000 per head $60000 no administrators no superintendents could all come out. So feel free just want to say this. I support our troops. I was proud to opt in to launch Operation holiday homecoming last holiday season when our troops are getting left at the base in Indiana. Bring them home for the holidays we raised over $300000 to do that. But a governor has to be right the first time. And while we cannot order our troops home by publicly opposed the war in Iraq before it was popular I

opposed this war in Afghanistan. And as governor I would use the force of the governor's office to tell the president of the United States whether it's a Democrat or Republican. They've both made mistakes on this one. I believe as governor you're making the wrong judgment. Anybody else want to weigh in on the war question again. Just quickly couldn't you also say that the state of Vermont will stand up to anybody who doesn't want to send their federal taxes and stood until the federal government stops investing in the war and stops being so. War profiteering and couldn't you do that. Now when you do that why wouldn't you do that. Well one doesn't have the authority to do that as governor what I would do as governor as I say is make very clear as a voice for Vermonters that when either Republicans or Democrats make the wrong judgment about where we should be fighting and why all speak up is fighting ever going away and this goes right back to the fact of controlling Vermont's destiny.

These guys want to become governor and they don't even have the charge of our own National Guard. Listen we can bring home the Vermont National Guard if we want to it takes the political will of the people to make it happen. It takes a leader that's willing to stand up and do it. I'm that leader. I'm the one that these guys Colonel dooby and aristocrat Sherman are not willing to take the stance and call for Vermont's National Guard to come home. It's important for them to be brought home. You know I got to say as a kid who grew up without much in-built a good little business I'm kind of that's your grad thinking are you my going to her today or near pedophiles like to be fair. Colonel Juba I thought you were referencing what you make of this. I've already said what I need to say I've served in the National Guard for two decades currently serve in the Air Force Reserve. I understand and acknowledge these are really important issues to all Vermonters I'm running for governor. But I would like to say you know in reference to Senator Shelby Lynne's memory about the 90s growing populations The fact is we lost twelve thousand five hundred students in the last decade. And as a result of a declining

population at the same time our K-12 population went down by twelve thousand five hundred students. Our school staffing went up by 22 percent. We're at a point where we have the lowest student teacher ratio in the country. And why I'm concerned in it we have to talk about this for the next decade we're going to lose another 80 500 children. I want to grow our economy and grow our populations but we have to be realistic. And we in leadership requires us to make decisions. In fairness we just got a quick rebuttal from you too if you'd like or we're going to move on right Ben. Well I'm not sure which is OK. I'm against the unprovoked invasion of sovereign countries I promise not to invade New Hampshire if I'm governor. I don't know that it would be an issue but but realistically it's obscene that we our values are such that we're talking about cutting schools and cutting education when we spending billions and billions and billions of dollars as a society to invade foreign countries I was against the war in Afghanistan from the beginning and I would support any effort to

end the unprovoked invasion of other countries. Chris you get the last word on this if you'd like it. OK so far as I understand the law the National Guard in Vermont receives funding from the state and federal funding as long as they're receiving federal funding. You've got to follow a federal law that's all there is to. You're watching the Vermont Public Television gubernatorial debate we're live at the PTA studios here and culture. We have six of the seven candidates who are on the ballot on November 2nd. Here with us in studio with a studio audience as well we invite your comments and questions on line at V.P. t dot org where our friend journalist and Galloway a Vermont digger is standing by to host the online chat. Our next question asked to do with health care it was submitted to us on the telephone Let's listen. Door saying nobody or mom or Ma went through a single payer health care system. So while businesses no longer had the burden of. Providing health insurance to their employee does that mean tax payers

would no longer have the burden to pay for teachers and government employee health insurance. Thank you. I'm guessing Senator Talent you'd like to answer that. I have proposed and will work tirelessly to try and enact a single payer health care system for Vermont. The three reasons that you just outlined Dorothy are the reasons that we need the plan. We cannot continue to spend a million dollars more a day as a state than we spent the day before on health care it will bankrupt us. Second it's driving up school costs is the biggest challenge for school boards were shifting on to property tax payers. Finally it's bankrupting small businesses. It's forcing small businesses that want to thrive not able to survive. It's their biggest rising cost. So I have a plan. Brian says it can't be achieved because we need waivers. I will work very hard with Senator Sanders Senator Leahy and at Carswell to get those waivers. I think that we can

get it done in Vermont. We have a gentleman Dr. Schauer design a system we've got to get this cost on the control stick with the current team with Brian Duby and your cost will go up another 2.5 billion in the next eight years like they did the last go with me and we'll get costs under control the rest. The country doing healthcare right. Bride to be can he pull this off as governor. Well he's good at making promises like I said there's three pages of promises that's probably you know according to a legislative analysis at least in excess of a billion dollars according to the General Assembly's Study Committee so I'll make promises I can keep. Vermont has been rated the healthiest state in the nation for three years in a row. What I would make a promise to Vermonters is that we would continue to expand a blueprint for Health the chronic care initiative. Seventy percent of our health care dollars are spent addressing chronic diseases. We know how to do that. I'm excited that one of the spires of excellence from the University of Vermont is in this

area trying to use leverage in the academia to the professionals at the University of Vermont to make a difference as it relates to health care delivery in our state. That would be a priority. I would also leverage that federal legislation and the creation of exchanges and tax credits like Sam cutting to Daken farms is hoping to use to achieve the goal of lowering costs for small businesses and universal access across our state. Those are promises I can keep and that's what I would do. Do you think a single payer idea still. You know I think it's a great idea but really it goes back to the same thing he's talking about getting waivers to go to get single payer health care from the federal government. It just shows that these guys don't have any power over there over the state of Vermont they need to be able to have charge to take our Vermont and its own destiny. And that's the issue that we're dealing with. He has to go up there and asked Sanders to run up to the Washington get a single payer waiver and then Colonel Duby over here is not willing to ask for the return of the Vermont National Guard I mean it shows that the federal government just has too

much power over Vermont. So I mean it's a great plan it probably would work if we were an independent republic and we had our own life in charge of our own destiny. We could just do it. Why don't we just make it happen. If the people want it let's do it. And Michel. Well I'm a socialist and I've been advocating socialized medicine every time and I've been a candidate for any office. I think it's funny that some of my my colleagues here laugh when they talk about a single payer system and talk about an unrealistic promise when the rest of the world the rest of the industrialized world is laughing at us we pay twice as much as any other industrialized country and we don't insure everybody. The money is going into the insurance companies who are the insurance companies. Insurance finance it's all one big thing. They are the big people with huge piles of money we send them our monthly payments. What do you say to a plan that says you pay two five hundred two to five hundred dollars a month $5000 a year plus you get a

$5000 deductible. So if you have any any sickness you're paying for it plus you're giving the insurance companies your $5000 a year and then if you get sick they drop you. That's that's the kind of plan you want. We need socialized medicine. The insurance companies have had enough. It's time for them to go home. Do you agree Chris Erickson partially. I believe that when you go to school for example K through 12 in Vermont you don't pay insurance. Your school isn't billing you for you know for insurance to send your style to school you pay taxes and the taxes pay for the school so you don't buy school insurance you pay taxes and the taxes pay for the school. Let's pay taxes to the for Ma to Vermont to the state for basic health care clinics with a very defined amount of basic health care basic health care hospitals with a very clearly defined amount of what you can expect and not expect when you go there. Just like a school and the rest of it. Leave it to capitalism to the free

market enterprise. Also I just want to say that obesity is one of the major health problems in Vermont obesity causes adult onset diabetes and heart attacks and strokes. And I have one idea to reduce obesity in Vermont. I want swimming trails. The majority of lakes and ponds let me just let me give me a moment for this. The majority of the surfaces of lakes and ponds are devoted to boat motor boats canoes kayaks and fishermen and swimmers do not have equal rights to surface water we need swimming trails with little Got to move on. But all right come back if you like Emily Post. OK. I have doctors in my family so I know insurance and lol do not belong in the healing practices they make them unpure. We also need to look at that. Poverty is a health issue. We need to remove the stress of poverty. I'm

proposing a Vermont unitive exchange do that I will try to explain in 1 minute. Also if we have organic farming we will improve an organic food on every single table. Then we will reduce our problems with health. Now men dated contributions to private insurance corporations. In my mind are illegal and criminal. We shouldn't do it. We also need to fund natural healing and we also need to take responsibility for our bodies and knowing ourselves and for being healthy we can't keep externalizing it to the doctor in the white coat. I want to follow up a bride to be said that this was a billion dollar program and he's used that figure in advertising as well. Do you dispute that it's a billion dollar proposition and sure are you going to raise a billion in taxes to pay for it where all the money come from. You know Brian is running a campaign of fear. I'm running a campaign about opportunity.

It's a five billion dollar program. That's what we're spending on health care right now in the state of Vermont. The question for Vermonters is very simple. Do you believe that the federal bill's going to help you out. If so go with Brian. If you want to governor who has the courage to do everything in his power not a promise but a plan to get what I'm talking about passed. Go with me. Why is it so important. You stick with Brian's plan and you're going to have another million dollars a day for the next eight years which is roughly 2.5 billion dollar hidden tax on every small business every person living in the state of Vermont. This is the biggest tax increase that Vermonters have faced. Imagine it this way just for a second. Someone's running for governor and they say I'm going to increase your taxes a million dollars a day. That's what he's just done. And that's what he's just said. I have a plan to fix it. It's a five billion dollar program. We'll only pass it if it cost less by getting insurance company profits out of the picture.

Using technology to drive a system that's affordable and treats health care as a right and not a privilege. Brown I want you to respond to about that. Well this is from one of the Arthurs of x 60 x 60 is really from the top down. When we talk about local control so this is doing to health care top down management from payer you know this is the legislature analysis of what it would cost. You know we're a state of 600 20000 Vermonters with porous borders 25 percent of our population goes Dartmouth-Hitchcock for the receive their medical care. I'm just I'm trying to be realistic I have not met a business person yet who says if we enact a single payer health care system in Vermont that is going to be a boon for business I have no question about the rhetoric. It's the it's the reality. My my promise is I can keep and once again I mean the promise is universal pre-K single payer health care for a state that has the highest property taxes some of the highest income taxes in the

country. You know we need to figure out how to lower taxes and not to make promises that we can't keep. Then if you want to weigh in. OK. Peter is not willing to bring home the Vermont National Guard that's a trillion dollar foreign policy. Now maybe if we took a governor that was willing to stand up to the federal government to bring our troops home and bring it close all the bases a thousand bases one of 53 countries then we'd have a trillion dollars that might be able to come back into the states in order for to make that program. And Colonel do be with your top down management. What is what are we under with the Washington isn't that top down management sir. Oh I mean come on let's get real. Who's in charge. How would we fund single payer health care. Well what we've said we need to look at the states that got it right and that's North Dakota has 600000 people in back in 1919 a few years after the Federal Reserve was created and the legal ins but we won't get into that. They created their own state bank and now what do they have. They it isn't even FDIC insured. They have the only state in the union that has been had

job growth in income quote growth. Now we put that in here in Vermont we got 4 billion in our treasury. We put that as the core and then we make the loans for the things that we want to see and the interest comes back to Vermont. That way we can fund the the the the doctors and nurses who want to go to school in exchange for their service in the community. We've got to divorce ourselves from the federal corporate banking. Oh yeah I take your point but I haven't heard anyone come up and say I'm going to pass x tax they will raise the money to pay for single payer. Well is it my turn. Yes fully ok well and Lee's idea actually would raise a lot of money by socialized finance suddenly all the money that's going to the credit cards and to the to the large Wall Street firms is now coming into the state of Vermont and it's actually using the money productively so that's actually a good idea and it would help. At the same time the issue in health care is an artificial shortage.

OK if we triple the number of doctors we accept a Vermont medical schools we pay their tuition 100 percent and then we say in exchange for that you have to work for the state at a living wage $40000 a year whatever a living wage is I would love to get that much money and then they have to work for us for 5 years and then they can go be plastic surgeons and make whatever money they want. Then we have a community based health care system where they work for the state they don't work for the insurance companies. It saves money. You don't just have to raise taxes you could save money. And I think that's a much better people and bring more people into the state quickly and then we have to move on. As a small business person when I get the bill every year and every family faces in Vermont it goes up 10 20 30 percent. Two years ago it was 32 percent for our company. That is called a tax increase. That's money out of your pocket. The point is we have doctors shout designing a system that will give us the options of how to pay for it. That the next governor has a huge opportunity to run with. The

question is can we design a system and I say we must that contains cost so that we're not spending a million dollars more tomorrow than we are today. I think we can do it despite what Brian says it's not a promise. It's a plan. We worked very hard to get it done. We need a governor who is proving get tough things done has the vision to take a spare and takes on the real challenges. This is the top challenge for Vermont. I've got to move on because we have all a lot more question how are you going to pay for it what taxes are you going to raise. We're going to create a bank and the interest you want to answer the period. Is there a type of mind that you we are in for it right now. And if you said to my business as an example Hey Peter I got a deal for you. We figured out how to contain cost. You will have no more increases for the next five years. I and everyone else in Vermont would say wow how fast can we sign up you get a rush. Financial No it won't be a wash. This system everywhere else in the world reduces cost we have to reduce cost. This is a quote cost question not a tax question.

Spending there's no problem. Let's move on because we've got a lot of questions to get to and we've got some good ones. This is no easier really it comes from Russ Mallard from Waterbury Vermont who sent us this email if the Vermont legislature passes a death with dignity bill similar to Oregon giving terminally ill patients the freedom and choice to make their own end of life decisions. Would you sign it. Then it's still absolutely yes. Yes and I'll tell you why. I met a woman in Chester recently who came up and asked me if I supported end of life choices and I said why do you ask. She said I'm suffering from cancer. I have cancer. That is a very very painful way to die. I've outlived my physicians. I've outlived almost everyone who takes care of me in terms of where I should be right now. But I'm on this earth. I know that the next two or three the last two or three weeks of my life whenever

that time comes is going to be extraordinarily difficult and painful. I do not want government to stand in her way. Oregon has figured out a smart very careful way to deal with this question. I think it's between the very ill terminally ill patient and her provider. I believe that about choice as well. Brian disagrees with me on both of these. I feel strongly government should stay out of the way of really important personal decisions. Emily Payne how do you feel on this question Would you sign such a bill. Yes I would now I would also remind everyone is that they have forgotten that spirit is eternal. Also I want to use my time back on the health care issue. We have got to do some education about what Monsanto means to our health. We've got to do some education about what corporate food does to our health what aspartame we have got to alert people if they don't already know that they need to be eating organic all the time and we've got to make it affordable for everybody. It's

a right. Thank you very much Will. I think it's a free country and people should be free to make decisions for themselves with the care of their doctor especially. And I want to say something about health care too but I want for certain if I'm elected governor I would let it pass into law without signing it. Why. Because of religious feelings. I respect other people's religious feelings. I understand the very recently in Great Britain they finally made Druids Druidism an official religion Druids worship the sun the stars spirits whatever. So non-profits in Great Britain can. Collect money is Druids So I respect other people's religious choices but for myself I couldn't sign it but I would let it pass into law without signing wrongdoing. I had a press conference in my office a couple years ago with the disability community. We together shared our concerns about this type of legislation. I would make a

commitment about signing this I would be inclined not to sign it. And this is one of the reasons that we shared at our press conference. People in the disability community feel that they would put their their members at risk especially when you contemplate a single payer health care system in tight budgets. We express concern for people gathered in my office were real concerns people like Senator Jim leddy shared his concerns. What I would do is I would expand the work that the attorney general has done and the Department of Health has done on that and making sure the palliative care is available to Vermonters in the stages of life. This is not some academic situation to me I've been in the the end. Moments of both my parents and and watch them as they struggle with these very difficult issues. In this last weekend I joined members of the out of the darkness walk to support community for people who expect to experience suicide. Suicide rates in Oregon are up significantly as a result of the legislation. That's what the

data that would be a concern is sending the wrong message to people contemplating suicide. Nother e-mail question I thought was interesting. It comes from St. Johnsbury and Ben Michel we'll start with you. It goes like this as Vermont becomes more diverse. What would your strategies be as governor to address harassment in public schools and racial disparities in our criminal justice system. Well now that I have some time I'm curious exactly what percentage of the money being used to fund the attack ads that we're seeing on television all the time is coming from the insurance industry because they're being defended pretty vehemently by you and you and you're taking the money and using it to attack people on personal grounds. And it would be nice to be able to know that but unfortunately can't know that. What would I do to keep people from bullying each other. I mean I can't believe we're talking about this people are hungry I mean in the past 30 years we've seen a decrease in the past 10 years mean

income or median income has decreased. Every time that the economy got heated hot enough to actually increase our wages they would raise interest rates thus cooling it meanwhile making they would lower the interest rates to give us a lot of access to free capital so that we could get easy money from credit cards. It's really cheap for the credit cards to borrow it so they can give it to us and then they can jack up the prices. We've been sold off to the financial industry and we want to talk about bullying in school don't bully people that's the answer don't do it. And we will. Teachers we don't want to cut the budget on education. OK dentist you know how do we do a better job to address harassment. Let's let's end the class warfare. I think if we end the class warfare we're going to have a lot better societies. People are going to be making money they're going to be able to get food. If you look at 2007 43 percent of Americans were living paycheck to paycheck in 2008 that number jumped to forty nine in 2009 it went to 61 percent. And in 2010 it jumped to 77 percent think we need to really look at

the underlying issues of what the problem is and the problem is is that 90 10 percent of the people in the United States are controlling 90 percent of the wealth. This is class warfare we're talking about. And it all stems into a lot of number of different issues. And we have to continually address that and make sure we understand liberating Vermont is the only way we're going to be able to actually stop this from happening. What about bowling in schools I'm only playing ok. There something I'm going to do with Governor nod and I think I will be one day. But at any rate you see this symbol of peace through music simple can you get on that. There it is. We're going to work you know how we have volunteer fire departments. We're going to work on a volunteer peace force. These are going to be people who are trained in mediation resolution mentorship. Also the chaperoning and these will be the people the. That also could be reimbursed through the end of that exchange. I'm going to do this whether I'm governor or not because we need a police force our police force is working for

the corporate world and they are not able to promote peace they should be rewarded for promoting peace or should be getting higher salaries for the the fewer crimes that they have in their community. We have got to shift the paradigm. Everybody has to shit about what you are going to continue to support to party corporate. Candidates. Chris Erickson is this a problem. Harassment in school is for all I ever think we need to look first at what creates what's the lowest common denominator let's let's take a step back and say what causes racial disparity. And is it really financial disparity. How many children look up to Barack Obama despite his color. What we're really looking at is more a financial disparity than a racial disparity when it comes to school children. If they're looking down at another kid it's because the kid is poorer or comes from a poor family. Also in the criminal justice system the

rich person doesn't go to prison in Vermont. The poor ones do. So it's not so much racial disparity in the criminal justice to says system it's financial disparity. Rich people don't go to prison in Vermont and it's OK to be black as long as you're rich. Near Barack Obama. Better someone you know both bullying and racial harassment are bigger issues than from mine and I think there's two things a governor can do. The first is talk about it going to schools and actually talk about hatred about discrimination and what's causing that. I think Howard Dean was the last governor in the example of the kind of governor I would be on this. He devoted a whole state of the state address to racial hatred that took courage. And then he went out into schools and talked about it with kids that took courage. That's what I will do as governor. Second I want to point out I would visit a child Early Childhood Center yesterday very young kids learning to

play cooperative cooperatively without bullying each other. The sooner you get kids into a situation where they are cooperating together and learning together the less bullying you will have. So really child education makes a difference. Could I buy into it. My son was in a school where there was cyber bullying that resulted in a suicide. So this is not some academic thing as a chairman of my home town school board. I have accompanied the father who lost a son in a series of visits across the state and different schools talking about his experience but really taking the the great hurt from that experience and trying to make a difference and sharing that experience across the state. So I have done that and for people who think this is a money issue or a class issue. This is an issue across all our state. It transcends the issue of of bullying transcends gender and race and money. Its its something we need to be

cognizant about. We do need to talk about it. We do need to educate people about it and we need to we have part of our curriculum helps teachers and helps bring this one parent as an example into our schools. The only way we can address it is to bring it out into the open and talk about it. I certainly would do that as for months next governor were going one on one on topic. Its not on topic. You know if this has to do with with bullying we need to look at what the United States government is doing around the world and maybe address that issue with our children. Theyre seeing us become the bullies around the world by occupying other countries and blowing up other countries and killing people in other countries maybe if we stop that our children might learn something from us. You know it's time to stop watching television but not it. Not tonight please if you would because you're watching a Vermont Public Television gubernatorial debate. We are live in Colchester night until the top of the hour. I'm still at lot better we have a studio audience here and we invite your participation at home.

We have six of the seven candidates on the ballot who are here in studio with us. One day Dan Feliciano of Essex was invited but he didn't show up tonight. And so we're proceeding with our 6:00 I want to continue with you Brian Duby for a moment. We've we've heard a bit about this so far tonight. But let me just address this head on. We've not had a pro-life governor of Vermont since Roe v. Wade and that prospect makes some Vermonters nervous. Would you address concerns that you might be too conservative on social issues for moderate voters. Well in a country I think there's 25 pro-life governors. The fact is the Bush issues settled federal law. It was settled in the state of Vermont before it was settled at the federal level. I've been a pro-life lieutenant governor and and my agenda is to create jobs. That's been my focus is my candidacy. That's what my brian Duby pure Vermont campaign is all about. Some of the things I have done as a pro-life lieutenant governor is joining with

Secretary of State Deb Markowitz in advocating for baby safe legislation. Vermont I think was the forty seventh in a state to adopt that legislation. Planned Parenthood Vermont right to life came together found common ground passed baby safe legislation. It was the right thing to do. I've worked with Project family the LUN family center to promote adoption. I've advocated forced state allocations of dollars for pro-adoption initiatives. That's the kind of work that I have done and that's the kind of common ground common sense work that I would do as Vermont's governor. But Michel I do not think that the government should be compelling women to have children. I think that's an incomplete overstep of its of its authority and I think it's absurd that people are promoting that. But what it demonstrates is what I find to be a very frightening far right movement in this country which is bringing a lot of very divisive social issues to the forefront. We talk about bullying but about what about radio and television personalities who are

whipping up racial hatred who are using racial hatred using xenophobe it agenda to try to raise money and raise their political interests frightens me. This is a this is the this is a political agenda which is really masking a very hard economic agenda of the extremely rich billionaires and millionaires who donate to their campaigns. The Koch brothers. And these are the people who actually are funding the Republican campaigns and although you may not stand up for your free your rights and say that you want to promote OK I've been told to stop but it frightens me Brian to be Senator Shelby too conservative on social issues to be governor of the state. Well you know I'm really concerned about this issue and I think we need to talk about it. Brian and I strongly disagree on this one. I am pro-choice he's pro-life. This is why it matters to me. I'm the father of daughters. When Brian says let's talk about jobs not this issue. I think that's demeaning to every woman in

Vermont. This is why it matters to have a pro-choice governor in the last year. Eighteen states have put legislation on Governor's desks we can name a woman's right to choose. I would veto that legislation. Brian would sign it in Bennington when asked. Brian in the case of rape and incest What is your position. He said I am pro-life. I think that that is not in keeping with most remodelers values. So this is where I am on this one. It matters it matters deeply with a conservative Supreme Court and perhaps Republican Congress. It really matters because it may go state by state. I will defend a woman's right to choose. This is a decision between a woman and her provider. We haven't. Have Republican governors or senators in Vermont who are pro-life. I think it's a real issue that we should be aware of and like pain. Once again spirit is eternal that if you're going to be

right to life. What about war babies when they grow up to be 18 and the poverty draft. There's not enough money for them to go and get educated so they go over to the to the to the war machine over there. I find it offensive that you Peter and you Brian talk as if you were the only two people in the race who are possibly going to win. I find it offensive that the press has not covered all these good candidates and given a template so that the Vermonters can chew it's as if the Vermonter shouldn't choose. Well you have you have equal billing tonight ma'am. Thank you I do it on on topic though I want to go to Chris Erickson. Vermonters are very divided on this topic. I've spoken to Vermonters who are 100 percent against abortion. It doesn't matter if the woman was raped or if it was incest that is God's child and if she doesn't feel comfortable with her baby

put it up for adoption. I've also spoken with for minors who are concerned that for example in Windsor County there is no Planned Parenthood and there is no VD clinic and in Windsor County. One senior citizen gentleman told me that he gave a whole lot of money to Planned Parenthood and then they packed up a month or so later and left Springfield Vermont and moved over to Claremont New Hampshire which is too far away for a teenager without a car from Springfield to go to. So in southern Vermont people are have extreme opinions there either were totally one way or totally the other way. Elect me for governor and I will respect people's personal choices. Still you want to weigh in on that. So the question is is whether Colonel dubious too conservative on social issues correct. That's correct. OK. I would like to say that I would like to be governor of Vermont because I would like to decentralize the social programs back to the local level

decentralizing the power back to the local level make it more responsible and giving the people of the communities their own in charge of all the social programs in that area. Thats the way Switzerland does it and thats the way I would model as a Swiss system. They have one of the best health care systems in the world. They have one of the some of the best schools. They have a currency this backed mostly by gold. Its a good model for us to use socialized welfare social programs decentralized back to the local level. The question that you know referred you by name tag governor to be so you could provide if youd like anything youve heard or shall we move on. You know I respect people that share different opinions. This is an issue that I'm running on jobs. That's the that's the issue that is important to the Vermonters. I was up in the Northeast Kingdom and I met a woman in Northeast Kingdom and she said this social issue in the kingdom Brian is a mom or a dad might lose your job. That's my focus is a candidacy that would be my focus. As for mocks next governor. And that's what the people of Vermont are looking for.

And that would be my commitment Stuart in the governor's race today. We heard from the current governor Jim Douglas who essentially said that it would be dangerous for one party referring to your party a senator from the Democrats to control the House of Representatives and the state Senate and the governor's office. And he has a new ad that runs tonight that makes that point isn't he right. Well he's right if you're a Republican I guess you know he's wrong and let me tell you why I believe that I I've served under both. And let me tell you the difference under Howard Dean when I was Senate president. This is what happened. We had an ending employment as I mentioned. Employer's biggest problem was where do we find workers. We had on ending surpluses. What did we do. We passed the biggest tax cuts in Vermont history. We built up the rainy day fund so they're now there. We passed Dr. dinosaur giving every child in Vermont health care. We had

an ending. Prosperity under this scheme. We've had lost over 10000 private sector jobs. The middle class has lost their incomes watched them drop while their bills have risen. It's been really tough. I say if you want more of the same we've just seen it go with split government for eight years and that's what you get if you want to govern who can build jobs and get things done. Go with someone who can work with the legislature to get tough things done. Well Vermonter saw what what things can be done Peter Shumlin in the last legislative session said quote from honors are taxed out in the same week he led the charge to override a governor's veto rate 20 20 million dollars in new taxes imposed a budget over a governor's veto first time in the history of the state of Vermont. When Peter talks about getting things done you know he's been in charge of super majorities in Vermont Senate the governor vetoed two pieces of legislation he couldn't get done whatever he wanted to get done. The fact is this has been a national recession in

some ways for miners have been served well. We have an unemployment rate that other states like Michigan would envy a 6 percent unemployment rate. Can we do a better job. Absolutely that's what my agenda is all about. I think Vermonters are looking for balance government. My candidacy and my service as Vermont's TX government would all would be all about finding balance. There's a lot of people that felt like they're not being served by the legislature. I would serve to strike a balance and find solutions to serve the people of Vermont. Still I think we need an independent in the in Montpellier to be governor. They can work both sides of the parties and they're not going to be loyal to their party system the Democrats or the Republicans. I think it's important for that to happen and I feel that I'm the person that can do that job. I would like to be your governor. Let me bring it back to the Northeast Kingdom to be and Peter the Y Del plant is completely closed. That is a plant that is only 10 years old it was

opened eight years ago I think 10 years ago to be exact but jobs in the Northeast Kingdom are important but we don't need military industrial complex jobs we need sustainable jobs up there. We need jobs we need to re localize decentralize and re Umanai is our lifes and brings them bring the real localize the economy to make it to make it better for all of the North people in the Northeast Kingdom. Then Michel what was the question again. One party rule any danger in your view. Well I'm still thinking about what you know. This election is about jobs. You know what you said and I think I know that I don't need to drag somebody around with me because I've spent time unemployed in the recent past. I know what it's like to try to actually you know pay for would try to get your life together before winter. And it's really hard. And yet meanwhile there's all of this huge amounts of money coming into the state to pay for political advertising to manipulate the voters into something else. And my question is Where is the money

coming from and where is it going. And I would look at that and the reason why is because I know it's hard to make a living here you know it's hard to make a living here I work today I had to come up here after work and I decide out of a meeting to get up here I have to work tomorrow. You know I have a job where I actually have to show up and most of the Vermonters do and I think they need to come up here and say it's about jobs. You have to recognize what it's actually like to work for a living in the state. Emily picking any. Well I have to I did one party controlling the whole place. Well any danger in your view to having one party in this case the Democrats that was Governor Douglas's point today. Control the House the Senate and the governor as well. Well I don't think that the Democrats are any better than the Republicans. We need to have an independent person who is not owned by corporate politics. Sorry but the minimum wage is when somebody works all their hours in the week and still comes back with half a livable wage what is that. That's slave wages. So what I have in mind is a Vermont unit of exchange to make up the

difference so that we can give people the dignity of when they've worked all their best hours of the of the week then they come home with enough value to be able to to have an honorable living. The remote unit of exchange people may say that the you're not allowed to create a currency but California has already done it and they do it by creating it as a promissory note that's as much as I can put in in this tiny little bit. It might be short answer the critter he has if you have just the Democrats in control. That would be a totalitarian government a totalitarian government is totally and completely illegal under federal law. It's also dangerous to just have Democrats and Republicans because they're both getting their campaign funding from the same corporations and from the same defense companies. If you for example go on the Federal Election Commission's website and look at all the list of all the defense companies they're giving practically equally to the Democrats and the Republicans the

Democrats and Republicans are so humble and ised and so pasteurized and they talk so often about meeting at the middle of the aisle there's hardly any difference between them. One more question because we're running a little short on time and for this will work he answers to about 30 seconds if we could end it if it deals with personal character. It share with us if you what do you know. Our moms all told us to learn from our mistakes when mistakes have have each of you made in your adult life and what have you learned from them. Well it's possible that I made a mistake when Peter Stone asked me to run for governor. Because I'm going to be really tired tomorrow but you know I've made a lot of mistakes and I think it's interesting that we're doing a you know the sort of personal integrity to give them an opportunity to beat themselves up again. I don't think that we should be attacking each other on personal integrity issues I think that's an ad hominem

argument and it's a logical fallacy and if people buy it then I feel really badly for them. Emily pate. What mistakes have I done. I made a mistake on the last debate where I didn't answer the question because I wanted to shift the conversation I thought like geez I should have honored the fact that I was being asked that question. I make mistakes all the time. It's through the failures and through learning how to reach for the better answers that I had this journey for your family what mistakes have you made in your adult life and what did you learn from them. I think the biggest mistake in terms of my political involvement has been not to be clear about why I am who I am. And you know I'm a kid that was not I was born dyslexic I learned differently and as a result I had to defend myself with my verbal skills and I think I sometimes come off as slicker than I am in my heart. I used my mouth to get through grade school when I

couldn't learn how to read. The result is that I can be fast with my tongue. I think I should be more honest with people about the fact that that's who I am because of the way I was born and I am a humble decent person who is doing my best for the state of Vermont. And still I'm going to go back and tell a story about my friend Carrie Colby lives up in Concord. And when I was young I took a Matchbox car from him and I kept that car until I was in my adult age until I had kids. And I remember pulling that car out and when I moved back to Vermont with my family I took that car back to him and gave it back to him. And there was tears in his eyes when he did it was the wrong thing to do. Chris Harrison if you fall off the horse get back on don't dwell on negativity. Brian do you know if I've made a mistake it's doing a lot of things and trying to balance being a father for children. I've served as a colonel in the Air Force Reserve we've heard that many times. I'm proud of my service in the

National Guard I'm proud of my service in Air Force Reserve. I've served as a captain for 20 years for American Airlines. I've served for months lieutenant governor for eight years. With those responsibilities of juggle the responsibilities of having four children in high school and the last stuff several years children in college if I made a mistake I served in my public side and juggling family responsibilities. Thank you and thank you to your all. Our time is short and we have just enough for closing statements. We drew in order before we started here tonight and each will get one minute beginning with Ben mental and the liberty and OK we've talked about some issues but there's a lot of issues we haven't covered so I just want to do a quick poll of us. How many of us are in favor of closing Vermont Yankee raise your hand. How many of us are in favor of public ownership of electric production. Socialized public power. OK what about smoking pot how many of us have smoked pot in their life. Raise your hand.

Come on you know you hear me OK. How about legalizing it how many of us are in favor of that. Good revenue for the state it would end or decriminalize it OK. What about don't ask don't tell attended how many of us institutional discrimination now. OK how many. Let's see Islamic center two blocks from ground zero how many people think that they should be allowed to build that. First Amendment. How are you and against any other parts of the Bill of Rights or just the whole Bill of Rights. How about redistribution of wealth. The reason the economy is the way it is is because there's been a huge upload of wealth into the wealthiest percentage of people it's time to redistribute the people of Vermont need a raise. Yeah tax the steel. Your closing statement when the US Army veteran and I'm proud of that service credo. The Indian a father of two young children I grew up in the kingdom and Ben is right on. We are in class warfare 10 percent of the people control 90 percent of the wealth right now and

that's wrong. That's what we have to change in order to do that. We're going to have to liberate or begin liberating ourselves from the federal government we need a governor in office that's going to be able to look at every federal dollar coming in and look at it and see if there's a way that we can send it back with a note attached to the congressional delegation bring home the Vermont National Guard and solve our own problems here locally. Once we're able to do that that liberation process will become much easier to do then we will take control of our food our energy our foreign policy which will be a foreign policy of nonintervention Colonel. And Peter and our monetary supply. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Steele. Peter some of you know I'm running for governor because I want to create jobs and put Vermonters back to work. I do not want to be governor so badly that I will undermine anyone's character or tell untruths about their positions to get there. I'm going to spend the next four weeks talking about the contrast and the choice between myself and

Brian Duby. There are real differences. I am a small business person who has built a business in Vermont who wants to use those skills and my skills in a legislature to put Vermonters back to work. I have the vision for where we need to go and how we'll get there. We can do a lot better. I'm very optimistic about our future. I will not run a campaign of fear. It's a campaign of opportunity and I hope you'll vote for me. Thank you both shuttle and Brian doing closing statement please. Well then if that's the case and as you said today at a meeting earlier today you apologized for the ad. Why is the rhetoric different from the reality you're still running an ad that does a fact attack my integrity so here's my commitment my commitment is I'm going to talk about serious issues I'm not going to make jokes and dismiss them as when I'm talking about a ticket or incident after 9/11.

These are serious issues these are serious times. Public safety is a serious issue for miners expect a good candidate for governor to conduct a campaign about serious issues. My campaign is focused on job creation. I have a 10 point plan. I've listened to thousands of Vermonters as I've put together my ten point plan. I'm very encouraged that the National Federation of Independent Businesses the eighteen hundred small businesses of Vermont have endorsed my plan and Doris my candidacy my spirt as a candidate and my spirit as Vermont's next governor would bring to to bring people together rich people people of humble means bring them together find solutions make a great state an even better state that would be my commitment. Thank you. Next to Emily Peyton. I think the problem with the world today and the way it's been for a lot of history and serves too much testosterone and I think it's really important that we learn to nurture and I think that these people here are to willing to share their salary aren't willing to share their work with the experts that need

to be if I was there I would be able to give that ego based thing to give the best job to the right person. I don't need to do it all the way these people do. I also want to say that I want to give a reading list for people at home I want you to watch Money as Debt on Google Video The Creature from Jekyll Island I've got a couple minutes ask and it is given. Read that book Handbook for a new paradigm. Read that book. Watch on YouTube. Georgia stones and concentration camps in the US. We have things that we have to deal with that are big. Thank you Chris Erickson. I want to carry on a conversation with Vermonters in the next few weeks about what's happening in California to see if that is something that Vermonters want. California will vote on whether or not to legalize marijuana and tax it and the state of California is expecting over a billion

dollars a year in new taxes from the legal sale of marijuana. So I want a conversation with the Vermonters about what they think about California. Let me show you what's going to happen in California. Ring ring ring Hello yes I'm calling from the California ultra high company and we have a special today we offer you 1000 ounces of California I'll try marijuana today only with six ounces for free. You just when the shipment comes you crack open the free box you take out one of the free ounces and try it out. If it doesn't get you 50 percent higher and if the high doesn't last 50 percent longer then we'll refund your money on the one dozen but you get to keep the half dozen for free. Now that's what's going to happen in California if they legalize marijuana and tax it. We need to talk to Vermonters about if that's what they want for Vermont. THANK YOU THANK YOU ALL candidates. Where I short on time and so will say good night a week from tonight from a public television continues this series with our second debate featuring the

candidates for lieutenant governor. Tomorrow night we invite you all right back here to our political roundtable. Call Vermont this week. I'm still at lot better thanks to your to our candidates and all of you at home. And good night. You're watching viewer supported public television. Here's what's coming up tonight on Vermont Public Television. Vermont state wide public

television.