Republican Primary Candidate Forum

. . . . . . . . . . . .

. . Richard Peckham and Barbara Palmeroy. Welcome to all of you. Candidate Jean Bicknell was unable to prepare on our program tonight. Also with us in the studio are two representatives from the news media who will be asking questions of the candidates. They are Adam Rome of the Wichita Eagle in Beacon and Brett Wallace of the Salina Journal. Welcome to you all. We'll begin the program with a brief profile of each candidate followed by a one minute thirty-second statement by that candidate. We'll next take questions from our news media panel. We'll then have time for live viewer call-ins. We'll then return to our press panel for questions. We'll have time for more viewer call-ins and finally we'll have a one minute closing statement by each candidate. So if you have a question that you would like to ask a Republican candidate for governor, call us now at 316-436-KPTS.

Our volunteer operators from Sunflower Mensa will take your name, your telephone number and your city. Later on they'll call you back in the order in which you called in and give you a chance to speak directly to a candidate. We urge you to take advantage of this opportunity to ask the questions that you would like the answers for by calling 316-436-KPTS. We're now going to give you an opportunity to learn more about each candidate. I will read a brief biography provided by the candidates and then they will have one minute and thirty seconds to answer the following question. Should they be elected? What are their qualifications and what accomplishments can the voters expect to see in their first term? I'll repeat that question for all the candidates. Why should they be elected? And during their first term what accomplishments or changes can the voters be expected to see? Our first candidate for governor is Jack Breyer. He is a resident of Topeka. Mr. Breyer has a bachelor's degree in business administration from Washburn University and has done graduate work in public administration at the University of Kansas.

He has held various positions in Kansas State Government beginning in 1968. In 1978 he was appointed Secretary of State and has been elected to that office twice since then. In addition to public service Mr. Breyer is a management consultant for and member of the board of directors of Carlson Ryan Management Incorporated. His running mate is Harlan Prittle of Hutchinson. Mr. Breyer would you answer our question please. I'd be happy to and thank you Cynthia and my thanks to Channel 8 for making this time available for all of the candidates. The first question was about my qualifications and I'm happy to have served the people of Kansas the last eight years as Secretary of State. This has given me a wealth of knowledge about the state of Kansas, about Kansas. And as I've traveled this state and learned of the problems of this state firsthand I have continued to become increasingly concerned about the future. Concerned that in the last three years we've had the two largest tax increases in our state's history. Concerned that four times in the last three and a half years of the state has had to borrow money because it didn't have it.

If there's a legacy that Jack Breyer can leave to the future of Kansas it'll be a legacy that said that Kansas government was restored to fiscal soundness. And that along with that fiscal soundness we began to rebuild the economy. That as we looked at our 5.7 billion dollar agricultural industry we looked toward new opportunities that would allow people to stay on the family farm. My running made Harlan Prittler who served as Secretary of Agriculture for the last four years is just the man for that job. We also look forward to opening up new markets for any Kansas product anywhere in the world that we can. In education we hope to build to build on what is a good high quality system in this state for the future. And if we can do that the legacy that will leave Kansas is that tomorrow will be a place and a time that we'll look forward to. That's what Jack Breyer offers. Thank you Mr. Breyer. I'd now like to introduce Mike Hayden.

He is a resident of Atwood. Mr. Hayden has a bachelor's degree in wildlife conservation from Kansas State University. He has served in the U.S. Army in Vietnam. Mr. Hayden taught at Fort Hay's State and earned a master's degree in biology. In 1972 he was elected to the Kansas legislature and has served a total of 14 years. Mr. Hayden was elected Speaker of the House in 1983 and has served in that position to the present time. His running mate is Jack Walker of Overland Park. Mr. Hayden, your statement please. Yes Cynthia, thank you very much and thank public television for the opportunity for all of us to appear one last time before tomorrow's election. My qualifications began with the values that I learned as a farmer's son in western Kansas. My educational qualifications are a bachelor's degree from Kansas State and a master's degree from Fort Hay's. My legislative experience has been 14 years in the Kansas House of Representatives. I have cast over 12,000 votes on the record on the public policy issues of this state.

I served as chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, which oversees the state budget. And the last four years I have twice been elected unanimously, the Speaker of the House. It is on this experience and these qualifications that I am seeking the highest office in Kansas. As we look ahead to the accomplishments that we hope to bring to this state, as your governor, I will work to restore capital punishment to Kansas. I will work to bring the liability crisis under control. As Speaker, I help push through the cap on medical malpractice awards. And in fact, I think caps on numerous awards are needed to bring liability crisis under control. I have grave concerns about education and we'll continue to try to improve the educational system of Kansas and I have already spoken out about my highway plan. Thank you.

Thank you very much, Mr. Hayden. Our next Republican candidate for governor is Larry Jones. He is a resident of Wichita. Wichita Jones has a BS in business administration from Wichita University and an MBA and doctorate in business administration from the Harvard School of Business. Mr. Jones served on the faculty of Wichita University for eight years. In 1964, he returned to work for a former employer, the Coleman Company, as treasurer. In 1981, he became company president. Mr. Jones became chairman of the executive committee of the Coleman Company in 1985. He serves on the board of directors for several local corporations. His running mate is Paul Bud Burke of Overland Park. Mr. Jones, your statement, please. Thank you. It's good to be here and my thanks too for public television, particularly you, the viewers, for taking your time to participate in this. It's important. It's been my pleasure to be a participant in this Republican primary. It's been exciting and hardworking discussion of the issues from agriculture through education. People clearly want to change.

They want to change from the poor leadership that we've had in the last eight years of Democrat leadership. In those eight years, we've exhausted our cash reserves. We've had two major tax increases and constant increases in spending. Yet we don't have an economic development plan. We don't have a plan to support quality education. And even the, can you read my notes, that one of the important things in my judgment has been the support for the arts in Kansas. We are 50 firsts in all the states and territories in terms of our support for the arts. Now that's just not good leadership. So Larry Jones and my running mate, Bud Burke, we have the kind of experience, experience in business, experience in education, experience in government, provide the kinds of leadership that people are looking for.

So please vote tomorrow. And vote for Larry Jones and Bud Burke. We'll do your good job. Thank you, Mr. Jones. We'd like to remind our viewers once again that they can ask a question of one of the candidates by calling 316-436-KPTS. Call now and get your name on the list. Our next Republican candidate for Governor is Bill McDonald. He is a resident of Meriden. Mr. McDonald attended Kansas State College and served in the U.S. Navy. After his tour of duty, he returned to Kansas with his family to help operate his parents farm. Since 1971, Mr. McDonald has worked as a sales representative for a food processing firm and has owned a lawn service company in Oklahoma City. In 1985, he started a company called Sites and Sounds Production to promote Kansas talent. His running mate is Betty Ladler of Scranton. Mr. McDonald. One of the reasons that I'm running for the Governor's office, and my qualification is for this particular post, is I feel that probably the majority of our problems can be solved by utilizing a common sense and good judgment.

My running mate and I both feel that we have a very high amount of common sense and good judgment. I feel that as far as what the people of Kansas will experience through our administration, if elected, in November this year would be more popular decisions concerning what we do in our state. We are very much opposed to government becoming more involved in economic development, more involved in the private lives of our citizens, more involved in regulating every aspect of our life, and basically our promise is to return government to the people. We both intend to work as hard as necessary to bring about a better way of life for Kansas and Kansas working together we can win. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. McDonald. I'd like to introduce now Richard Peckham. He is a resident of Andover. Mr. Peckham has a degree in journalism from Michigan State University and a degree in law from Western State University in California. He served with the United States Army in Vietnam. As an attorney, Mr. Peckham has been an advisor for the Social Security Administration and a negotiator in federal labor relations. Currently, he operates a private law practice in Wichita. His running mate is Austin Kent Vincent of Topeka. Mr. Peckham. Thank you. It is indeed time for change in the format of government and the philosophy of government. One of my opponents, Mr. Hayden, has been the speaker of the House for approximately four to five years. A member of that body for 14 years. Yet over this period of time, Kansas has sunk economically. On the other hand, tax rates have increased dramatically, especially within the past two to three years. Time for a change in philosophy that says that government is limited. There are limited purposes for government. And one of them is not to generate or control economic development. That is the province of the people. It is time to put the tax money back into the pockets of our people.

It's also time to recognize the wishes of the people regarding the death penalty. People have spoken. They spoke eight years ago and they made it clear that they wanted the death penalty reinstated. I strongly support that. It is also time to protect the unborn child. In Kansas, we are putting the unborn to death at the rate of thousands per year. It is time to, once again, show respect for human life. Time also to restore our concept of the family. The Judeo-Christian values that made us great as a nation must again be re-instilled in our public school classroom. We must once again recapture the strength and dignity of marriage and the nurturing of children. As your governor, I will do all possible to encourage and to cheerlead our people to bring them back to that position where those basic values are paramount in our culture again. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Peckham. Our final Republican candidate for governor is Barbara Pomeroy. She is a resident of white water. Ms. Pomeroy has a Bachelor of Arts and Master of Social Welfare Degree from the University of Kansas and a Master of Public Administration Degree from the University of Southern California.

She has served as a regional SRS Deputy Commissioner, GE International Exchange Executive and Executive Director of the National Commission on the International Year of the Child. From 1980 to 1986, Ms. Pomeroy was the controller of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Her running mate is Barbara Hale of Wichita. Ms. Pomeroy. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here tonight to be able to talk with you on this, the eve of the election. Just tomorrow is the final day and that's the day that you do decide who you think is going to best represent you as governor of Kansas. I trust that your choice will be me based on my experience and my background and the things that I have promised to do. I have, for 25 years, worked in organizations and with people in helping them accomplish the things that they want to accomplish. And 15 years of those have been in managing government as you have just heard. I have already had to do the kinds of things that a governor does. So I don't have to learn and I can start right off working on those things that are necessary to do.

What can you expect in accomplishments from me? First and foremost would be responsible use of tax dollars. I've conducted my campaign in the same way of the responsible use of funds that I would plan to use in government. When it's all said and done, after I have had my four years as government, what I would hope would be the judgment of people would be that she truly was the people's governor. I look forward to working with the people of Kansas and trying to accomplish the kinds of things that you would like to have accomplished for you. Thank you, Ms. Pomeroy. Take advantage of this excellent opportunity to learn more about the Republican candidates for governor. Call now to 316-436-KPTS for your chance to speak to one of the candidates. Now we're going to turn to our representatives from the news media who will take turns asking questions of the candidates and will begin with Adam Rome with the Witch. Eagle and Bacon. Mr. Rome?

I'd like to address my first question to you, Mr. Jones, and then a follow-up response from you, Mr. Hayden. You've made the argument that the next governor needs to be a super salesman for Kansas, and that the governor represents the image of the state as others see us. Would you comment on whether or not Mike Hayden would be handicapped as a super salesman by his image as a rural small town legislator? I understand your question. You're saying, can a guy from rural Kansas town make it in the big leagues of selling products in the international markets? That's yes. Most of us came off the farm. My father did. I did also when we moved to which it's off. So the thing that Larry Jones brings to the office of governor in terms of representing the state is experience in terms of being with industry both in this country and internationally in terms of not only selling ideas and products but selling investments. It would be exciting to have the opportunity to be the sales representative for Kansas.

At Coleman Company, we're pretty well known for quality products. I sold quality products all over the world for 20 years. And it would be exciting to sell Kansas because it is a quality product. And I'm sure Mike would find it as exciting as I would. But it is in fact true that Kansas needs a good representation around the world and in the national marketplace and the governor is really at the forefront of that. And the image is important. It is important. But I think that our experience in this race with seven people show us that the most important image, the most important image is just what these people here tonight are projecting. And all of them, that's an image of sincerity, an image of honesty, an image of experience. And the truth is that we can all speak well for Kansas. We're Kansas. We believe we believe in this state. And whichever one of us is selected, we'll portray the proper image to Kansas for Kansas to the world and to the national marketplace.

I hate to sound like I'm talking on the same issue, but again to Mr. Jones. And being a salesman for Kansas, how will this benefit the small communities of the state who have little chance of attracting a large industry into their into their town? But let me first of all take this point that we've now squared, which is the salesman's role. And it is an important role. And I do feel confident and capable of it. But the first question you have to ask is about the product you're going to sell. It's got to be a quality product in Kansas is it's got to be a product you believe in. And I do. And in so saying that we really are our first going to have to direct our attention to to creating that product that we can take more aggressively and more excitingly into that economic marketplace. And that includes the small rural towns and communities of Kansas. Those are those are our roots. It's from there all of our major Kansas industry sprung if you study the history of just in our community alone.

And so knowing that most of our future in terms of our economic growth will come from our small businesses, those started by Kansas, those who decide to do business in Kansas. And many of those would would find it necessary and they would prefer to be a part of our good quality smaller rural community. So actually creating an economic development program that will help our rural communities become revitalized is an important task. And it's one that we can count on being accomplished. I'd like to follow up on that and ask all the candidates what specifically would you do as governor to help small towns that are struggling or even dying to survive. Maybe Mr. Breyer if you would start. I'd be happy to I showed my commitment to rural Kansas in more than words. I asked the Secretary of Agriculture to give up a very safe job to join me and to join the Jack Breyer ticket to run for Lieutenant Governor and that demonstrates a very serious and sincere commitment by the Breyer administration to agriculture.

Agriculture is a 5.7 billion dollar industry and if rural Kansas is to survive it will survive in large measure because of the success of agriculture because of the success of agribusiness because of our ability to diversify our agricultural products as well as our ability to market those products around the world. I think there's more to being governor than being the best salesman in Kansas. I think what we're talking about when we're talking about a good governor is a governor who stays home and takes care of business. It's unacceptable to have had the two largest tax increases in our state history within the last three years four times in the last three and a half years we have found that the state has run out of money. First and foremost we take care of the business at home. We then work very hard because in rural Kansas there are lots of opportunities. Let me just cite one in Goodland, Kansas.

12,000 acres of dry land wheat were removed from production. They were removed from production in order to substitute confectionary sunflowers. So what we found is that the 12,000 acres of wheat at $2 a bushel has been replaced by confectionary sunflowers at a contract price. But the best news is not so much that as the fact that they now are building a confectionary sunflower plant that will add between 18 and 50 new jobs to the Goodland Kansas area. That's the future of rural Kansas and that's the future that comes from agriculture and that's the future that Jack Breyer is committed to. Yes, I come from a small town having lived there all my life and in fact on the only one of seven brothers and sisters who found enough economic opportunity to return home. So I know firsthand what it is and the out migration from from rural America. One of the things I've called for in this campaign is a creation of a task force on the future of rural communities.

I'm very, very concerned about it as a legislator as we were developing the money for economic development. I led the effort to ensure that the money would be equally divided among the congressional districts so that the rural areas and the small towns would be equally represented along with the urban areas in receiving this new economic development money. The secret to the security and future of small town is the creation of jobs. Many, many people, many, many young families would like to live in small towns because there isn't any better place to raise your children because of the safe streets and because of the educational opportunities. But unless they have good jobs, they simply cannot find it available. We must create jobs in these small towns all across Kansas if we're going to ensure the future viability of rural America. Creating new vitality in our rural communities in the long term, the visions that Jack speaks of and Mike, we all share. But the problems of our small towns in rural Kansas are immediate.

We can't simply wait a decade for industrialization of our small towns. They need help now. And my plan calls for several things that will be of immediate help to our rural communities. Number one, that if the lottery is passed in the referendum, I've already said I will try my best to dedicate a substantial portion of that lottery revenue to assist the small rural communities. I have a system in keeping their celebrations alive and helping their schools and helping in those projects that are necessary to keep a vibrant community while they make it through the transition period. I've called for using our idle lands and using them immediately to get the rural communities to reestablish the habitat that will support increased quail and fesent population and make those areas. A mecca for quail and fesent hunting in the Midwest so that our rural communities can participate in tourism as a new industry.

I've also said that if the voters approve the number one referendum item on the August ballot and please vote yes, if you will, that that venture capital fund that we will see that that 40% of it is dedicated to venture capitalists to new businesses. In the rural part of Kansas, we must act to help. We must act now and then we can get about the process and the longer term of building a more stable and more growing communities. Before you answer Mr. McDonald, can I just ask a follow up, Mr. Jones, you use the phrase the industrialization of our small towns and I'm wondering if that's your vision for what small towns would be is to have more manufacturing more industry. Or would you want to see them have more service industries. Oh, I think both. It's going to depend on the small town. It's going to depend on the opportunities that they have and it's going to, of course, depend on the decisions of those who invest in those small communities.

So I use industrialization in the general term. The diversification of the business environment and activities of our small towns into service into manufacturing, as we spoke about earlier, into all of the opportunities to become a part of a changing in a growing economic scene. Most of the citizens that I've found that live in small towns live in small towns for a number of reasons. One is that they're not large towns. They like the smallness of the town. They like the facilities. They like the low crime areas. Our approach would be to first find out what the small town would like to do with its economic development, so to speak. In order to have a business you need a product or service that's marketable, you need capital to operate that business and you need labor to make the business work.

But you also need a volume source of sales in order to make a profit. Our approach to the small towns in Kansas is to approach bigger or larger corporations, getting subcontracts for parts of production that could be done on a small town basis, employing maybe 10 or 12 people. The other area is I lived in a small town in Missouri at one time and they had a food processing plant that employed about 150 people. That would be another option since that Kansas is highly agricultural and we have a lot of agricultural products to process. But by and large, a lot of our small towns, a lot of the citizenry of the small towns work in larger cities. These small towns are just homes and communities to where people choose to live, to work elsewhere. And human nature almost all the time proves out if you live in the north part of town you work in the south part of town.

If you live in the south part of town you work in the north part of town. So a lot of people that live in small towns would drive and would go to a larger city for employment. Now the problem with Kansas as far as the economy. We have very high unemployment liabilities. We have very high workman's compensation liabilities. We have very high tax liabilities. The volume in a lot of cases is not there because of the number of business competing on a given product line. And what happens when too many people are selling the same products, there's a competitive disadvantage in that there's not enough volume that all of these merchants can survive. And traveling through the state of Kansas I found a lot of new shopping centers that are going in competing with downtown shopping areas which will kill or destroy those downtown merchants.

When companies come in from out of state and set up a large processing concerns in our state competing again with local industry, getting government subsidies, getting wage subsidies. There's no way that we can compete with that type of competition. Basically our approach is to do something to bring dollars into Kansas versus bringing in industry. I think paramutual for that I think that could be a tremendous asset to our state if the people would both that end and if we did it right. But other than that there's other avenues that we could take to market products internationally and nationally that are manufactured or produced in the state of Kansas by Kansas people, by Kansas capital rather than to get in concession to out of state interest, let's give our concessions if there are concessions to in state. Business people that they could make a profit.

Two things we need to do to shore up the rural community. Number one we need to get the federal regulation of farm commodities production and price removed. President is moving in that direction and we need to support him. Supply and demand rather than government regulation should be the controlling factors. Once we get a market economy for commodities, we will have a price the farmer can make a profit with and that will strengthen the local economy small town. Number two thing that must be done is tax rates across the board must be cut. Federal level we are seeing the President and Congress work diligently to cut the federal tax bait. We're all working now approximately four to five months out of each year in order to satisfy the combined tax bait. That takes an enormous amount of money out of the private capital markets, out of the hands of drillers, farmers, manufacturers and shopkeepers. Money that should be used for production. The problem is that in turn as it shrinks the available capital for business, drives up the interest rates, makes it very difficult to operate.

So to strengthen our rural areas we need to reduce tax rates in order to strengthen the business sector in order to produce the kinds of profits and revenues needed to drive our state machinery. And then again the farm economy must be adjusted by returning to a free market system. I'm quite familiar with rural communities having grown up in one and having by choice moved back to one. I think that we must be careful to pay attention to the fact that there are as many diverse needs in rural communities as any place else and not a rural community is not just a rural community. They're very different and have very different needs. If we're going to really meet their needs we're going to have to tailor them to where they are and what their situation is, whether it be an agricultural community or an oil community or one that is a suburban area. In other words, we're going to need to look at each of the kinds of things that the various communities need and try to tailor programs that fit them.

There are a few generic things such as roads, schools, tax structure that we all need to look at for all of the communities. Thank you Ms. Pomeroy. Thank you gentlemen very much. We'll have time to return to press questions a little later in the program. Now it's time to begin the first segment of viewer call-ins. Please address your question to one candidate and please make your question very brief. We have a number of people who would like to speak to the candidates as I'm sure you can imagine. When we put you on the air, please turn down your TV so that we don't have any interference. All right, we'll take our first call. Our first caller is Bill Ernest from Wichita. Go ahead, please Mr. Ernest. Yes, I have a question for candidate Larry Jones. Mr. Jones, every time I have seen during this campaign, one particular campaign ad viewers that shows a graphic in the background, celebrating your ability to sell Coleman products.

I have felt a kind of a pride of ownership in that since I am one of those Cedric Countians and one of those Cansons who have paid a good deal of taxes so that Coleman Company could pay less. Figures from the Cedric County appraisers office given to me Saturday at Friday afternoon revealed that in the last few years, Coleman Company has avoided the payment of $1,634,000. $4555 in ad lore and property taxes. Is this the kind of crony capitalism that you would practice as a governor of the state? Do you believe that it's fair to load the burden of government services that Coleman receives onto other businesses and private taxpayers? Yes, I understand your question and I understand your concern. You did point out how much tax abatement the Coleman Company had received as the result of building many of the additional manufacturing facilities to create new jobs in Kansas with the vehicle called industrial revenue bond. That's the number that you're referring to.

But we pay many, many times that in taxes we believe we're a good servant and we pay our full load of business and corporate taxes. The benefit of having industrial revenue bonds or some such device is that it helps Kansas communities, which it's all particularly, be competitive with others around the nation so that we can attract the investments competitively. We can create the jobs, we can create the wealth and we can create a community that not only grows in terms of its size economically, but in terms of its quality of life. Other large companies, tax abatements, promotes economic development, does not the increased burden of taxation on other people, promote undevelopment, sir? And, of course, the community policy in terms of what kinds of tax abatements the community decides to offer is crucial. Many times the community can make a very poor deal.

My argument with you, if we have one, is that the minimum amount that's been done for the Coleman Company has been a good deal for us both. If you've got a community, must be careful. If you recall, the second item, referendum item on the ballot tomorrow is to, since industrial revenue bonds are no longer an available device for anyone. The truth facts are, is that 29% of the real estate in Cedric County is now exempt from taxation. Thank you, Mr. Anders. We need to go to other calls. The next caller is Keith Boyer. Mr. Boyer, are you on the line? Yes. Would you ask your question, please, from what you talk? Thank you. My question is for Richard Peckham. And the question is, Mr. Peckham, you seem to have been running a campaign that is not, according to the typical political principles of campaigning, in that you have not spent a lot of money. And you just seem to be different from most of the candidates. Why do you feel that you are a viable alternative?

And what do you think that you could win this primary and go on to defeat Tom Dockham? Well, we think the people want to see fiscal responsibility. We have not borrowed in order to finance the campaign. We have spent a reasonable amount, and we believe we will show the highest dollar per vote ratio that is the strongest figure of all the candidates. We will spend the least a number of dollars in order to secure the highest number of votes. We think that is responsible fiscal policy in a campaign, and we think the same thing applies in the case of the management of government. The Speaker of the House, on the other hand, has spent close to $300,000, and he has a good history for that. He has raised taxes over the past four or five years at a rate unprecedented Kansas history. It is time, and the people are telling us all over the state. It is time to reduce the size of government. The President has made it clear that the federal level, this is crucial to the continued success of our national economy, and the same is true as far as our state economy here in Kansas.

It is time to cut back on government and put that money back into the pockets of the people by campaigning the way I have without going into debt and spending only what comes in. At a reasonable level, we believe we have demonstrated to the people that we are responsible and are capable of assuming the job of supervising the executive branch agencies and the budgets of those departments. Thank you very much, sir. Could I emphasize again that when we put you on the air that you turn down your television set because we are getting, occasionally, we are getting interference. So if you would do that, please. Bob Muller is our next caller from McPherson, Mr. Muller. Okay, my question is directed to Mike Hayden. Mike in the Wichitaw paper, Wichitaw Eagle Beacon on Sunday, the recap of the issues on the candidates, you were against paramutual betting. But also in the paper, there was a recap of your contributions, and there was over $2,200 given to you by the Greyhound Owners Association. Can you explain that seemingly conflict there?

Well, my position on the constitutional amendments specifically on paramutual, my individual constituents that I represent as Speaker of the House overwhelmingly opposed paramutual, and in fact, I voted against it. However, paramutual wagering will be on the ballot for the first time in Kansas history this year, and that occurred while I was Speaker of the House, because one thing I do believe in is democracy and representative government. And even though I personally voted no, I did not stand in the way of its passage. In fact, I ensured that representative government was alive and well, and when the 2-thirds majority voted for it was placed on the ballot as it should be. Thank you very much, sir. Our next call is Carol Beard. Ms. Beard, can we have your question?

Yes, this is from Mike Hayden, and we have heard that your running mate, Dr. Jack Walker, has performed abortions. Is this true? And if it is, how will this affect your abortion policy? Should you become governor? And do you support abortion legislation? To my knowledge, it is not true. Dr. Walker is a family physician, and he has spent virtually all of his adult life in saving people's lives. And I have no reason to believe that your statement is correct. Dr. Walker has worked for the University of Kansas Medical Center for 23 years as a trainer of family physicians. My personal position is that I believe that abortion is a tragedy. I, in fact, am against the use of federal funds for abortion, and I voted for the bill this year that said that if a child survives an abortion, they shall be declared a child that need a care and become a ward of the state of Kansas. Thank you very much for your call. Our next caller is Tina Andrews. Go ahead, please, Ms. Andrews.

We have a caller online, three. Would you go ahead with your question, please? Go ahead with your question. Okay. We'll have a pause for technical difficulties for one moment if you'll all just kind of take a deep breath. This is part of the technical difficulties, yes. All right. Why don't we have a press question quickly? Okay. I'd like to ask all of the candidates with the Fed, with the cutbacks from the federal level, what programs do you think the state should increase funding for to cover the federal losses? Why don't we start with Ms. Palmer with this thing? I'm not the state to say it again, please. With the cutbacks from the federal level and many of the social programs, do you feel that any of the programs should be funded from the state level to make up for those cuts? Undoubtedly, we will need to try to make up as much of it as we can. The programs that relate to maintaining people in their own homes, such as the meals on wheels and any other services for the elderly, should be maintained simply because they are cost effective.

I would probably use the same set of criteria that any of the programs that lead to helping people to maintain productivity or regain productivity should be increased. We're going to have a very difficult time in that whole vein because we are facing bad cuts and other programs and it's going to be an increased strain. This will mean that we need to re-evaluate all of our programs. Services are otherwise in order to assure that we are getting the best use of our money and it's stretching as far as we can to provide the most service for people. It will not be necessary to raise taxes at the state level or change programs at the state level in the upward direction. The reason is this.

When the Graham or Rudman federal cuts go into effect and when the, while long with the synergistic effect of the tax reform bill, which should go into effect next year, assuming it passes the House and the Senate as it probably will. An enormous amount of money will be dumped back into the states. All of the states in Kansas is one of them. It will pump the private sector, pump business activities. It will also greatly enhance the capital markets, the ability to borrow money at lower interest rates. So the, in turn, the profits from that effect are going to increase revenues automatically at the state level. In other words, with a reduced federal tax rate and federal budget process, we will have more money in Kansas, which will in turn generate automatically more state revenues, tax process off the profits. So we will have and is already anticipated by most of the state governments, substantial increase in revenues if we do nothing at this point.

The national government's direction as far as the new federalism is returning more responsibility and more of the decision making authorities back to the states and in turn the state will need to put more of the responsibility back on the individual communities and it eventually ends up into the homes. Basically, through the course of history, the democratic process has been to add more programs and add more agencies, more money, more services. Under Mr. Reagan's leadership, the opposite is taking place at this time. Interest rates are down. Inflation is down. The economy is starting to pick up. As Mr. Pickham said, there will be more money for state government when the national tax reform is finalized. But our approach is to take that a further step in giving more responsibility back to the individual communities, giving more tax advantages to those communities that could choose more or less what they want to do on a local basis.

And I feel that's something that needs to be done throughout our nation is more of the responsibilities has to go back to the communities and getting government back to the people, the responsibility of government back where it started. I'm concerned about the sufficiency of our ability to support all our programs for human services and Kansas, those giving the question that particularly depends on help from funding by the federal government, which we're assuming may not be there. We must be concerned about all of them and I am the one that I worry perhaps more about than all the others is our services to our senior citizens. That's been an important part of Kansas. We are already today, the eighth largest state in terms of the percentage of our population 65 years of age and older.

So that's just vital to us. But here we are in an economy that's hurting, resources are scarce. And there are those making the arguments that because we need new highways and economic development and help for our school systems and on and on, that there will not be money as given our modest rate of revenue growth in the state to really do any increased job for our people in terms of human services. Well, that's unacceptable to me and I've presented my plan that dedicates 10% of any growth in revenue the state receives to do a better job in that whole area of human services. The one department in state government that is heavily reliant on federal money to a very, very large extent is the department of aging. And in fact, in our society in Kansas, we all know that our population is growing older and that we have more and more need and emphasis for geriatric medicine and for care of our elderly.

And the truth is that as the federal cuts are made, we're probably going to have to dedicate a greater percent of our state budget to the care and need of the elderly as they live longer and have more productive lives in Kansas. Our obligation is to them for that because they have, of course, been the productive citizens of the past and it is our obligation to ensure that they have a viable future in Kansas. And that probably means the commitment of additional state funds as a federal dollars are withdrawn. Thank you. The federal government is famous for the carrot and stick approach. Obviously the carrot is the money they have dangled before us and the stick is yet another federal program from yet another bureaucrat or another politician who's never seen or heard of Kansas. I think with the cuts that are coming, we have a great opportunity. We have a great opportunity to prioritize the needs of Kansas on a specific basis to look to the future.

And you know there's some other things that we can do. My candidacy and my campaign is the only one that has said that it's absolutely ridiculous for our nursing homes to be regulated by three different state agencies. And what we ought to do is not look at dedicating 10% of the growth of revenues for the future but looking at cuts that can be made today so that we can more efficiently offer the services to those who live in our nursing homes and the healthcare facilities. And with the money that will have an opportunity to save by getting rid of two of the three departments who are involved in nursing home regulation, I believe we'll be able to expand the community based services. And those are the services that will allow our elderly and our senior citizens to remain in their homes because the care support that they need is so much lower that there's no need for them to leave their homes. And ultimately when we can provide that care and those opportunities whether it's shopping or snow shoveling, in fact what we do is we enhance the quality of life for the elderly, we save money and the bureaucracy finally responds to the needs and the nursing home regulations that we have in Kansas today.

Mr. Breyer, we're going to have time for one caller and it is Steve Friesen from Wichita. Go ahead, Mr. Friesen. Would you make just one question please? Yes, Mr. Jones. With the increase of crime and the decrease of our jail space, will you push for the death penalty as a deterrent to crime or wait for the issue to cross your desk? And what will you do to help our corrections problem? The question of the death penalty is certainly a question of leadership and I've talked a lot about leadership in this campaign. John Carlin promised a reinstatement of the death penalty for Kansas and do it. And you can't campaign across this state and not become aware that the vast majority of Kensens want the reinstatement of the death penalty. And Tom Docking says he won't. Now that's not leadership. Leadership is being honest with the people and it's being responsive to their will.

I will sign the death penalty bill when it reaches my death. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Friesen. We're now going to go to closing statements for the candidates and they have one minute and we'll begin with Ms. Pomeroy. There's one issue that really has not been discussed here tonight but yet that I know is on the minds of all of the people. And that has to do with huge amounts of spending that are going on in this campaign. It's a game that we can no longer afford. Rapidly escalating beyond our own control, particularly so when we're facing the kinds of situations that our people are. With farms being foreclosed, banks failing, oil businesses going down the tubes and people's unemployment compensation running out. If we can't handle this current situation, think about the citizen who has makes $25,000 a year. One candidate has spent the amount of money that it would take to earn 40 years of work. That's too much and we can't afford it.

Not only is it going to change anytime after the primary, probably not since Tom Docking who is a candidate also has spent half a million dollars and has no opponent. If the candidates cannot control their responses to this, then the people are going to have to say that no, this is not the kind of way we want to select our leaders. Thank you. Prosperity and success flow, not from the generosity of government, but from the hand of God. It is time again to recognize those basic Judeo-Christian values in our homes and families that made us great as a nation. Recognize the integrity of the unborn child and the limits of government. Put the money back in the pockets of our people. We in Kansas are putting the unborn child to death while we are allowing the murder to go free after 15 years in parole. Time to reverse that trend. Time once again to respect the rights of human life at all levels. And it's time also to reflect that this is still the greatest nation on earth. We as Americans must continue to enforce and strengthen and encourage each other in those values that made us great.

And we'll keep us great throughout the generations to come. I ask you support. I ask for your prayers for Kansas and the well-being of our economy and our families and homes. Thank you Mr. Packard. Mr. McDonald. Every two to four years we have an opportunity to hear all the campaign promises, all of what we're going to do. We have made no promises other than the ones we can keep and basically our platform will not cost the taxpayers one red cent. As we intend to open the doors to the governor's office to you, to your neighbors and to all the citizens of Kansas and to let the people of the state tell us what they want done with the state. We will work as hard with you to bring about a better future for Kansas. We're asking for your vote and support tomorrow at the polls and I believe that this year will be a beginning of a very bright and prosperous future for the state of Kansas.

Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. McDonald. Mr. Jones. I've entered this race because I'm concerned about my state. And I was encouraged to utilize the experience that I've had in business and education and government to to try and change some things. And changing things means you've got to be ready. In my lieutenant governor, Bud Burke, the majority leader of the Kansas Senate and I are ready, ready to go to work for Kansas. We've presented our plan for economic renewal and vitality for Kansas. We've talked about agriculture, not a plan just to cope with the crisis, but to capitalize on the Kansas agriculture advantage. We've presented our plan to provide leadership for education and for a quality of life. So please vote, vote tomorrow, get involved. Vote as though our future depends on it. It does.

Thank you Mr. Jones. Mr. Hayden. We urge you to vote tomorrow on August 5th. Why should you vote for Mike Hayden? Well, Mike Hayden is from a farm family in Western Kansas. He's a Vietnam veteran. He spent 14 years in the legislature and four of those as Speaker of the House. He's chosen a physician from Oberlin Park, Dr. Jack Walker, as his running mate. We offer you experience. We offer you leadership. And most importantly, we offer to you a vision, a vision of the future for Kansas, a vision that provides economic freedom of choice and educational opportunity. If you vote for Mike Hayden and Jack Walker tomorrow, you won't be disappointed. Thank you, Mr. Hayden. Mr. Breyer. Thank you. And again, my thanks to Channel 8 for making this time and this opportunity available to all of the candidates who chose to be here today. Well, you've heard lots of questions and lots of answers and now the decision is up to you.

The most important thing you can do is to go and vote on August 5th. And I believe the most important thing you should do is to vote for Jack Breyer. Let me tell you why. As Secretary of State these past eight years, I've traveled this state. I've walked her streets. I've attended her celebration from skating Douglas to the Scott City beef fiesta. I've been there. I've been there in good times and in bad times with the people of Kansas. And we began a campaign for the governor's office that was a campaign designed to talk about issues. And we've talked about issues. Yes, I support the death penalty, but there's more to corrections than that. Yes, I'm concerned about our nursing home regulations and the future of Kansas with our economic development and our educational opportunities. And we've been there. We've talked to you. And now it's time to ask for your vote for Jack Breyer. Thank you, Mr. Breyer. On behalf of Channel 8 and the voters in our viewing area, I'd like to thank all of the Republican candidates for governor who participated in tonight's program. We'd also like to thank our panel of news media representatives Adam Rome of Wichita Eagle and Beacon and Brett Wallace of the select.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

From KCDP, Kansas City, the Republicans for governor of Kansas, an election special. Good evening. Welcome. Tonight, the public television stations serving Kansas bring you a special program introducing the seven Republicans who seek their party's domination for governor of Kansas. The winner in Tuesday's primary will face Thomas Docking, the Democrat who's unopposed on Tuesday's ballot. I'm John Masterman in the studios of public TV station KCPT, Kansas City. In a moment, I'll introduce our panel of questioners, but first to the candidates. One of these seven will be the Republican nominee. They are Jean Bicknell of Pittsburgh, Jack Breyer of Topeka, Mike Hayden of Atwood, Larry Jones of Wichita, Bill McDonald of Meriden, Richard Peckham of Andover, and Barbara Parmeroy of Whitewater.

The candidates will be questioned by three reporters, all Kansas. They are Russell Townsley, publisher of the Russell Daily News Russell, Richard Baker, reporter for public radio station KKSU Manhattan. And Randy Mason, a reporter on the staff of this station, KCPT, Kansas City. Reporters will address their questions to all candidates. Each candidate will have up to one minute to respond. I'll signal when time is up. We'll go in alphabetical order on the first question and come back the other way on the second. At the end of the program, each candidate will have a minute and a half to make a summary statement urging support. We begin the question now with Russell Townsley. Thank you, John. First question that I would like to ask and we will start with Jean Bicknell as the economy of the state with Kansas being hit by a triple whammy with agriculture and energy and aircraft industry all in the doldrums. The economy appears to be the major question and the major issue in this campaign. I hope that you have found it that way. And if you have what is your program or what would you do to improve the economy of the state of Kansas?

I think you've hit it on. Basically, we're going to have to look at the farm problem. That will be the first approach we take and what I propose there is a correlation among the farming today that will approach the problem where it actually lies and develop as much influence as we can to influence the trade and scogal mercantile exchange and until the farmers get a better price for the product where they can have a chance. The farmers haven't had a chance until they get a fair price. They're not going to be able to make it. So our goal there is to get the prices up. The next thing with oil and gas, that problem will resolve itself as soon as the Middle East gets us where they want us. We've got to get rid of seven stacks. So when they start those, when they start drilling wells, they'll drill them in Kansas to them. We're going to have jobs. As far as aircraft business is concerned, we've got to look into the liability insurance problems. We've got to look into the tariffs that are being placed on them. We've got to go out and solicit some other approaches to solve those aircraft problems. There's another problem and that's creating jobs in Kansas and that's exactly what's going to have to be done by selling Kansas on its strengths.

Thank you, Mr. Breyer. Thank you very much and thanks very much to the public television stations for making this opportunity available to us. The question of the economy is one we have all been asked many times. It seems to me that the future of the Kansas economy will depend in a large measure on our successes in dealing with the businesses that have already made a commitment to Kansas, the businesses that are already here in terms of the opportunities to ask them to expand and to grow with them. It also seems to me that the emphasis on large businesses incorrect beyond those existing businesses. We have to remember that 88% of all of the businesses in the state of Kansas have 19 or fewer employees and that's where our emphasis should be directed. And finally, in agriculture, a $5.7 billion industry in the state of Kansas. It's time that we recognize that. And I did that by choosing as my running mate for Lieutenant Governor Harlan Prittle, who is a farmer who also served as Secretary of Agriculture and is in fact an expert in agriculture, agribusiness and also international trade. It's clear that we have to expand the export bonus program. We have to get rid of the surplus if the agricultural economy is going to improve.

Mr. Head. As a farmer's son, I'm very, very concerned about agriculture and to help the agricultural economy in a small way. I favor interest right down on farm loans. As a small businessman myself and small business will provide about 80% of the new jobs in Kansas. I'm in favor of the phase out of the inventory tax. For those people in the oil fields, I oppose the severance tax. I still oppose it today. As Governor, I will call for an increased exemption in the severance tax of up to five barrels a day on stripper wells. And finally, for those people in our economy and the health care services, I'm a very strong supporter of a cap on medical malpractice awards. And I think for all of our economy, we need to bring this liability crisis under control. Mr. Jones. Yes. The economy certainly is one of the major problems in Kansas. And we appreciate this opportunity to discuss it with public television network. The very Jones plan for economic revitalization of our state, that means getting more jobs and new investments in Kansas has been published. So as the agricultural plan, close fell out in detail, the steps of action that we would take to accomplish both those goals.

Many of those steps already referred to by my colleagues. But importantly, I think we have to recognize that the economic problem we're dealing with is regional. It's not just Kansas. It's most of the country. That means we have to have a governor and a governor's office that will get out there and compete with the best of those other states as we struggle to to increase the activity and the vitality of our economy. And it's that role of leadership and selling Kansas that I seek in in this gubernatorial campaign of mine. Mr. McDonald. Yes, we take a very different view of our states, our states involvement in dealing directly with the economy. There's two areas that are on primary ballot this year that are concerning economic development and internal improvements.

We've suggested to the voters throughout the campaigns they vote against those changes of our constitution allowing government to get even more involved in private industry. A lot of our problems with our economy have been created by national government decisions concerning imports of commodities that we produce here in the United States. I feel that our voice as far as changing those those things nationally will be consolidating the voices of the people of the state of Kansas and approaching some different legislation from the national government. Mr. Packard. Tax rates are a key factor in getting us back on track. We've had upward pressure on all of our tax system sales, income and property tax rates. We've got to reduce that tax rate climate in order to generate a atmosphere where businesses can prosper and where we can attract businesses into the state.

We've received unitary tax system here in Kansas and that tends to discourage multi-state businesses from coming in. So our first order of business must be to reduce the pressure on tax rates. Then secondly we need to begin to encourage Washington on the farm question back toward a market controlled production and price system. In other words rather than government control we need the natural forces of supply and demand to set production and price for us. When we do that we will have a stable farm economy again. Another issue that I think is of major importance is the restoration of family values again. Families are our basic social and economic unit in the state. Barbara Parmore. What are we supposed to do for the economic basic Kansas? Well obviously the thing that is needed are jobs for all of the Kansas, both those who are now here and those we hope to be here later. The main thing that government can do is to provide a climate and an environment in which the economic development and prosperity can take place.

Government itself is not in a job of developing businesses. What we need to do is to implement the package that the legislature passed this past year which would help small businesses which would strengthen the link between the universities and our industries and which would provide venture capital for new businesses. Further those only areas in which government can function and not private individuals are in tax reform. We need to make certain that our corporate tax is not chasing companies away. We need to make sure that our inventory tax is removed and at the same time that it does not affect the tax base for local and state governments. Another area of prominence is roads. Development won't take place in there so roads for the commerce to go on. And finally education. If we don't have a strong educational system nobody is going to come here. Those kinds of things that government alone can do are the things that we need to do to develop the climate and environment for the development of Kansas. Thank you.

Now we'll go back around the other way so you'll be answering the next question first. Now we'll hear from Richard Baker with our second question. Candice voters are going to pay a number of questions on amendments to the Candice Constitution in August and November both. What kind of advice would you give to those voters when they come up against that classification amendment question in November? That is a very complicated issue because classification is dependent on reappraisal. We appraisal is looking at the equitable business of it and then the issue of whether or not property should be classified at different rates. I would have preferred if we had had the reappraisal before we had the classification. That way people would have known what the situation was. I'm not opposed to classification of classified different properties at different rates. But it is a very complicated issue and I would hope that we can have more discussion of it on the local level for people before they have to vote on it in October. Mr. Peckles.

Yes, I agree. I think this reclassification question on the amendment is confusing to the public. I think it's confusing to the legislators who have put it on the ballot at this point. And I think it raises so many questions as to what will actually happen to property tax rates that I think probably this is not the time to put it on the ballot. Reappraisal is a major issue to farmers and the drillers and manufacturers who are going through a slump right now. And to the extent that this change may jeopardize that is increased their tax rates, then I am very concerned. I would rather hold off on this study further before we make that constitutional change. Thank you, Mr. McDonald. Yes, I have mixed views as far as the classification amendment changing that as far as the structure of our constitution. I am in favor of it in that it would eliminate the inventory tax from our retailers. Since that reappraisal has already been approved, I feel that most legislation gives some trade off values.

One is maybe I feel that the classification would do something to aid the economy in releasing the tax liabilities for some of our retailers. However, that could have been done without putting it up to the vote to change our constitution. So overall, I would be in favor of that for those very specific reasons. Thank you, Mr. Jones. Yes, reclassification is a very difficult issue. My question was, what advice would I give to the voters? Study it carefully. Consider it seriously. The alternative to reclassification are not happy ones either to those who fear its consequences. It is on the ballot. We can't change that. I would suggest that it's time to say yes to reclassification, but once having said yes, it becomes absolutely necessary to engage in what I've called for a commission to study for tax reform in Kansas to make sure that reappraisal reclassification. The change in the federal tax code that's coming along and its impact on Kansas and so many other questions that we come out of all that with a fair and equitable tax system, both to our homeowners and to our commercial enterprises.

Mr. Hidden. Classification is designed to protect the farmers and homeowners from large property tax increases at the time of reappraisal. It will also allow us to phase out the inventory tax on business. I strongly support it, and I urge the people of Kansas to vote for it. Mr. Breyer. Thank you. I certainly support the removal of the inventory tax. I support the idea that it is time to reappraise the property that we have in Kansas to determine its fair market value. But I have some grave reservations about the reclassification amendment to be voted on. Let me suggest that we may well be buying a pig and a pulp. The percentages will be assigned and have been assigned and are in the constitutional amendment regardless of the effects of reappraisal.

And I think that the voters should most carefully study whether or not this will impact them in a positive way. The decision was made absolutely backward. The first decision should have been to re-classify, I'm sorry, to re-appraise all of the property. And second, you re-classify after that to determine those tax shifts won't occur and be dramatic. The legislature, I think, erroneously put the cart before the horse. Thank you. Mr. Bicknall. The problem I have a classification is that you have to have a fair and adjust approach to any situation of taxation or assessment in this state. And I propose that it would be absolutely ridiculous for us to cause some real estate to triple in taxes or maybe quadruple. And what I would propose is that I would ask the legislature to put a lid on the amount that taxes can increase on specific items so that we can protect property owners and not give them an impact, particularly if they're in a rental business, to where it would be devastating to their in their behalf. Thank you. Now we'll have a question from Randy Mason.

Let's talk about several other valid issues that will be coming up this fall. Voters will be asked whether to approve constitutional amendments that would allow a lottery and liqueur by the drink. Paramutual wagering has also been promoted in Kansas recently. What are your positions on the so-called sin issues? Mr. Bicknall. Mr. Bicknall's getting the question down. First of all, those are issues that I think that it's good that people are deciding. Instead of us trying to instill our will on the people of Kansas, it's going to get them an opportunity vote. Some of them on a county by a county basis on some of those issues. As far as liqueur by the drink is concerned and paramutual betting and lottery, I'm not sure they're going to bring the revenues that everybody says they're going to bring for the first place. I think that you'll find the same shift in liqueur by the drink that you found last time. In Eastern Premeters of the State, you'll find a very strong substantiated, substantiated positive approach for it.

As you go further west, it'll get less and less and less, but when you get out west, they're going to be opposed to liqueur by the drink. Paramutual betting, I can tell you, and I've said it many times, that you don't want to go to the small town that's got a racetrack, Eureka. Until then, they can have the racetrack because that community depends on it. Lottery, I have some philosophical differences with lottery, but people are going to decide the issue and if they decide they want it, then I'm going to support it. Thank you, Mr. Breyer. Thank you. I do not believe those are issues in this governor's race. However, let me say that if the voters approve the lottery and I am elected governor, I will do everything I can to implement as quickly as possible with that constitutional amendment in order that we can have it. Let me say, though, that with respect to liquor by the drink, it's time that we end the hypocrisy that we currently have in the Kansas liquor laws, and my goal with respect to paramutual betting would be a little bit different. And that is that if elected governor, my first priority and highest priority would be to make certain that organized crime knew that there was no red carpet rolled out for them and that there was no opportunity for them in Kansas.

Let me say, though, that as a matter of public policy, the legislature has already allocated the money from the lottery and from paramutual and yet it's still illegal. I think it's terrible public policy. Mr. Hayden. Yes. I personally opposed liquor by the drink because of my concern for highway safety. I also opposed paramutual because my constituency as a legislator was very much opposed to it, and I always believe that you go with them that bring you. Let me say that if in fact the people approve either of those issues, I will work with the legislature to get them implemented as soon as possible in a fairway and an honest way and to make sure that the criminal element is not involved in either one. Let me say that I'm a strong supporter of the lottery. I fought hard to get it through the legislature. We did get it passed.

It provides money to deal with prison overcrowding. It provides money for property tax relief. And most importantly, it provides money for new jobs in Kansas. Mr. Jones. As all three of the issues we're discussing have both economic impact and immemorial considerations. On the economic area, the lottery substantial money, the state of Kansas and I've indicated that I certainly agree that that substantial amount of some could be dedicated economic development and education to the benefit of Kansas. In paramutual, I've called for the money the state will receive from there to be invested in enhancing and improving our parks and our recreational facilities to improve our growing tourism industry. And I'm looking by the drink, agreeing with Jack, it's time to end the hypocrisy of the system. As far as the moral consequences of my vote in favor of all three of those, and we've got a great faith in the moral strength of the Kansas people. We've got has provided plenty of temptations. And I believe we're capable of handling them and handling them in a healthy way.

Mr. McDonald. Yes, I'm pleased that the legislative body has allowed the voters to vote on these questions. They will be decided by the people of the state. As far as my personal views on each of those, I'm in favor of paramutual for Kansas and that we have a very strong racing, enthusiastic citizen. I've heard that a lot of our people travel out of state to use these facilities elsewhere. The liquor by the drink, we have it now, it's just a matter of having a club card. I think that it's high time that we stop talking about liquor by the drink and allow us to follow those things that they do in the rest of the state. The lottery, I feel, in that the surrounding states have that and have approached that may not be as a profitable for the people of Kansas is what may be thought. But I feel that from the people I've talked to that that may pass in Kansas.

Mr. Peckham. I'm very much in support of those things that help strengthen the relationships between husbands and wives and parents and children, strengthen the quality of family life. I think it's crucial. I feel to see how increased liquor consumption at this time is really going to help us. I agree with Mike, it is a highway safety issue. As consumption increases, we see more fatalities on the highways. The fair mutual and lottery also, in my view, raised some major economic and moral issues. Number one, these systems will not, if Illinois is any example, raise the kinds of money that will justify the systems. By the time you pay the administrative costs and the law enforcement costs, which will surely attend those issues, we're not going to be miles ahead financially. Not to mention the fact that we give the wrong message to our people, I think. And discipline, the commitment to marriage, self-sacrifice, these are the things that made Kansas great. Not a lottery ticket.

So I oppose all three and I would urge the people to do the same. Barbara Pomeroy. From the beginning of my campaign, I have said that I am pleased that all of these issues are on the ballot. There are value issues and there are things that the people of Kansas should have a right to say what they want. It is not important in this context what my personal values are because what the voters need to know is that I have confidence in their ability to assess the pros and cons of these issues and decide. And I will implement what the people want implemented. For it has been my experience in talking with people across the state that that issue is a major issue. That they are tired of having people make decisions for them and that it's time that they make them themselves. Now we'll have a question from Russell Townsley and Mrs. Pomeroy will begin the answer. Mrs. Pomeroy, one of the major, well two of the major issues that appear to be in the campaign have to do with taxes and budgets naturally. And to maintain the Kansas current semi-balanced budget and to maintain our tax levels, what is it that you with your administration would like to do?

In the first place, it is essential that we begin to clean up government and get rid of those things that are no longer necessary. One example of what I have already said I would do is that I would eliminate the lieutenant governor position since it is clearly a ceremonial position that has no constitutional functions saved taking over from the governor if something should happen to them. And that has happened only two times in the last 50 years. There's further back up in the president of the Senate. It is that kind of thing that costs us over half million dollars each year that we need to get rid of. And I'm committed if I can start at the top, we'll go down all the way through government finding those things that we no longer need to do. As we can do that, then that eliminates or lessens the need to even think about taxes.

And we need to increase our economic base as that increases taxes. And then we do not have to raise taxes because it relies on its own accord. Mr. Peckham, I would work immediately to eliminate that severance tax because it's hurting our domestic oil. I would work to eliminate that inventory tax because it is hurting our shopkeepers. It's my view also that we need to reduce the pressure on our sales tax. Now the question is, how do we finance state services? Many of those services are not essential. They're not needed. We are now financing an economic development commission at the rate of $24 million a year. This finance is the governor's crypto to China and various other measures that really are not to helping spur the economy along. So there are many areas that we could cut. Department of Social Rehabilitation Services is probably another candidate to cut back both as to efficiency and as to function in certain areas. So there are many areas to cut and it should be done immediately to put money back into the private sector and strengthen the private economy.

Mr. McDonald. We take a little different view as far as what government should do. We feel that government has very limited obligations as far as doing those things that are necessary for the people that they cannot do individually. Looking at the three branches, we have some discrepancies and some areas that need to be improved. The legislative branch needs to legislate those laws without having direct input from the governor's office. The judicial branch are designed to interpret those laws in a court of law. And I feel that there needs to be installed in our state government that checks and balance system that was designed by our forefathers to oversee the other areas of government. But as far as government intervention into private lives, I feel that they've stepped way out of their bounds, mandatory seat belt legislation, they control our drinking laws, they control our speed limits. I think it's not what the people want. Mr. Jones.

What's vital in this question dealing with tax and budget is the commitment that I've made that in my administration there will be no general tax increase. We can't afford to continue to raise the price of working and living in Kansas and hope to grow what happened. I bring to this governor's office a successful 20 years of experience as a professional manager and several years prior to that being trained for that role. So, that if we could companion our Republican legislature with the Republican governor, we can save at least 10%. We could make more effective, at least 10% of the money that we're spending in state services. And against a budget of $3.7 million, that's $370 million that we can use for an agenda of things we need to do. I would impose also in order to make that effective, bottom up budgeting, professional people, those management positions instead of just political patronage we've seen too much of. There are many things we can do. We're going to have to work ourselves out of this problem, but we can't.

Mr. Hayden. Our state reserves are the lowest in 25 years. My first priority would be to build those back to a reasonable level, which means that we're going to have to tighten our belt. I hold out as an example of how I would manage this state's government, my campaign. My campaign is the only major campaign that has no borrowing, that has no debt. In fact, has adequate cash reserves at this very moment, and that's just the way I would run the state. Thank you, Mr. Breyer. Well, Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, the figures are different. In the last four years, we have had the two largest tax increases four times in the last three and a half years, the state has been forced to borrow money. And in fact, leadership means saying no, saying no to new programs, new ideas, and saying no to the bureaucrats. I, when I announced, called for a freeze on state employee hiring. I, when I announced, said we'd eliminate the Washington, D.C. liaison office, an office that is spread among 12 state agency budgets.

I was the only candidate who said that the year in spending benches by the state agencies have to stop. In fact, I am the candidate who called for a constitutional amendment to say that no longer can we have certificates of indebtedness and certificates of participation, which are another way to say that we're borrowing money. And they've got to stop. And today is the day, and leadership is what I bring, and I'm ready to bring government under control. Mr. Becknell. Oh, the past 10 years, they, the legislators have had to resort to tax increases to meet the revenue needs of this state. I think the people of Kansas can all afford any more tax increases. I'm happy to say I haven't had a part of that legislative process in increasing those taxes. I think we're going to have to go into the budget and we're going to have to do a better job of controlling the spending. We're going to have to look at the tax levels that we have laid on our constituents in Kansas. And, and we're going to have to remove the nepotism that have interfered with the work process in Kansas, the appointment of friends and relatives for key positions and promotions.

We're going to have to get away from political appointments. It's well time that the people of Kansas and the employees of Kansas can proceed in a, in a very efficient basis without having some political appointment and appear with that process. So I would recommend that we go in and review every department in Kansas. We find out where we can cut out spending and we do that and get down to business and get some, some reinstatement of our economic well being. Mr. Becknell will be the first to answer this question from Richard Baker. We've heard various talk about saving money. We didn't hear anything about higher education. And one suggestion to save money and higher education was to give each region's institution a mission. So there's no duplication. Would you support such a move? Would you repeat that please? Would you support giving each region institution a distinct mission in higher education? So there's no duplication between KU, between Kansas State University, between Wichita State, between Hayes? Well, I think that you can, I think it's inappropriate to sit here and say that you're going to sit any type of a pattern that you can't tell what the process is going to be.

What's wrong with duplication? If you've got all the programs filled up at all the institutions, if you've got enough enrollment where your classrooms are full, then it would be rather inconsequential, I think, to say that you have to go to one institution to get some type of training and another one to get another. I'm not in favor of instituting a lot of duplication or new duplication if the process is working. But I can assure you that if we're going to go out and say that one institution can't have something because another one has it, then we're going to have to reassess the position as to where the enrollment is going to be, whether we can afford to do it, I think the situation we have in Kansas is that we have a high standard of education. Unfortunately, we've got to depress the economy and education costs money. So the first thing we've got to do is we've got to go out and create a new broader tax base and bring new jobs in Kansas. So we'll have the money to address the situation with education properly. And in that process, then we can determine how we want to establish our programs. Mr. Breyer.

Our state spending is about $3.75 billion and out of that, about 20% is spent on higher education. It is time. In fact, it's well past time for a mission statement to be written in behalf of each member of our region's institutions. But it's critical as to who writes that mission statement. We've got to look forward to education as one mission statement, one goal with each of the universities and members of the region's institutions participating in the mission statement. I do not want and do not favor and would strongly oppose some bureaucrat in the Board of Regents office writing the mission statements, those have to come from the universities and they have to come from working together. If in fact, we're ever going to solve the problems of the cost of higher education and the inordinate amounts of duplication that occur. Mr. Hidden. I certainly favor the mission statements. If you look, you see of course KU is our flagship university. You see which tall state is our great urban university. Kansas State is our agriculture extension experiment station university. In our regional universities, serving their own regions of the state with specific missions.

We ought to define those mission statements. We ought to avoid duplication whenever possible. As a legislator, I led the effort to divide the state into specific regions for outreach programs by the universities. So they didn't duplicate each other in different parts of the state and compete for the same credit hour aid. Mr. Jones. Yes, having served on the Board of Regents in a period as its chairman, I appreciate the need and was part of instituting the call for a plan or a mission statement for the system as a hold for each institution. I think we have to be very careful about this notion of duplication. Obviously we want to avoid unnecessary duplication, but each university has the responsibility of responding to the needs, the legitimate needs, proven needs of the students in the institution and other communities it serves. It just simply that must be the guide. We instituted a program in the Board of Regents of Program Review to keep duplication under control. I think that's worked pretty well.

The battles we've had in the press or at least noted in the press between the institutions have been as political as they have educational. We need and must have a coordinated plan for all post-secondary education in Kansas and plan we've needed for the last decade and I'm anxious to help create that plan. Mr. McDonald. Yes, we're opposed to the Regents setting up a mission statement. I feel that one of the things that could be improved with our educational system as far as higher education in Kansas is to allow each university to compete with similar curricular that people might have a choice of attending those universities that they favor with respect to other advantages of attending those universities. I feel that there should be something done to make the apportionment of funding more equitable between all six universities to allow each university to have as much control over what they offer.

How they do their programs, how they run their universities. I feel that that's the best way to approach that. I'm in favor of that also in our public schools that a more local control be given back to communities that more of the decision making could be done on location versus in a Regency Office. Mr. Peckham. We are going to have an expanding economy and allow our regions in the state to grow naturally in those areas that will best serve the economy of our state higher and develop our industries and businesses. We must not be too rigid in a mission statement. For example, down at the Wichita State University, if we do not allow additional graduate programs and engineering and mathematics, we begin to discourage those who are working in the engineering field in the Wichita by day and want to school by night. We begin to damage a whole sector of our potential students in that area. So we need not to be too rigid in a mission statement and I would be for only the most general form of mission statement.

Mr. Pomeroy. I see a mission statement as a first step in a process of reevaluating all that's going on in our universities, not only the region's universities, but the community colleges as well. When you have a mission statement, then you can begin to look at who thinks they're doing what for whom and the negotiation process can go on so that we can have a balance between the resources that we have and the needs of the communities. It's through that process that we will really find out whether there is duplication or whether it's just different needs. Now, Mrs. Pomeroy, you'll be the first to answer a question from Randy Mason. Given the tight monetary times, what recommendations do you have for improving the state's correction system as it struggles to keep up with increasing numbers? One of the things that I would be most interested in exploring and working more fully on is within the prisons themselves, expanding of the prison industries so that the people who are incarcerated can assist in paying for their incarceration as well as the opportunity to learn something that they can be utilized for their no longer in prison.

In addition to what's in the prisons, I'm certainly in favor of the minimum security prisons, and I am even more impressed with the community-based facilities and programs. The more that we can do to keep people out of institutions and yet still provide justice for our citizens, the better off we're all going to be and the less cost involved. Mr. Paco. Yes, short-term view and a long-term view as Barbara indicated, keeping people out of these institutions is the best way to go. And that's really a values issue. When we began to pull the Judeo-Christian values out of our public school systems in the last 30, 40 years, we began to leave our young people without direction. We teach them academics without meetings. As a result, we have seen a substantial increase in the crime rate and the drug culture and a variety of problems that have aggravated the prison population problem, the social service costs.

So we need to get back to basic values again. In the long run, that's the solution to the prison problem. In the short run, yes, we're going to have to pay to finance prisons because we do have an expanding prison population. In the short run, that means tax money. Mr. Paco. Yes, sir. Our approach would be to start with some type of prison reform. It's better to work in areas to keep people out of prison than it is to try to work with the overcrowding situations. A lot of our criminal element, I feel, in the state of Kansas, has been created by and through our court systems. So that is another area that would need to be looked in very seriously. I'm also in favor of more decentralized housing of criminals, also less violent or nonviolent criminal people should be treated in a little different manner as far as getting them in, spending the time working to rehabilitate those people that we let out of our penal systems. Right now, once you have a prison record, your chances of going back into the system are very high.

Mr. Jones. Yes, I support the construction of the Ellsworth prison facility. We need it to good project. Secondly, we should continue to to be bold enough to look for an experiment with other alternative ways of dealing with criminals who have committed the minor offenses. Third, we must overhaul the probation process. It hasn't worked. It is not working now. And in that overhaul, it should and must be more and provide more participation, response to our professional law enforcement personnel. There are two other things. If we get our economy revitalized and we can, it will cut down significantly on the incidence of crime. And secondly, with a stronger program on drug enforcement and drug use education to rid that minister from our society, we do much to avoid the necessity that we have today of imprisoning people who commit crimes because of their drug habit. Mr. Head. I am a very strong law enforcement law and order candidate. I believe in capital punishment. And I've been very outspoken in support of it for a number of years.

I also believe in tougher sentences and those have come about in recent years. And in fact, that's one of the reasons we have prison overcrowding because we're taking a much tougher stance on law and order, which I support. But to be realistic, we must then deal with the rest of the problem. I voted for and helped push through the money for the new elsewhere prison. I have voted for the last two honor camps to be built. I voted for the community correction program. And perhaps most important this year, I voted for the money to begin our alcohol and drug rehabilitation program within our correctional system. So that when we do turn drug offenders loose, they have gone through a rehabilitation program before they reenter society. Mr. Breyer. Thank you. I too support the death penalty in the state of Kansas. It is time that we have it. But there's more to corrections than that. I have called for the establishment of a prison sentence in commission currently a judge in one part of the state sentences a criminal who lives in perhaps another part of the state to an institution.

And another part of the state who may be released by a board that meets in Topeka on a regular basis. That's absolutely no way to allocate the resources that we have in our correctional system. Second, I think it's critical that we separate our violent and our nonviolent offenders. Third, it is essential that we separate our young people from those hardened criminals that are in Kansas now. There were 4,000 people under the age of 18 in Kansas who were in jail last year, and that's unacceptable. And fourth, we have to look to new programs, electronic house arrest for those who are nonviolent offenders, community corrections, and work-release programs. Together, we can restore the lustre of Kansas. Mr. Becknell. Yes, I think the conditions of our prisons are deplorable. In some cases, we spent too little attention over the past 40 years to keeping them up in proper condition. I strongly recommend that we renovate those and bring them into higher standards. I do support the new prison building.

And I would tell you that the honor program, the honor inmate program that they have working, it's a good start toward rehabilitation and some of the inmates are now going into communities and doing community work. They're being transported from the institutions. I support a very strong drug conviction program and very stringent sentences there to try to cut down on the crime and keep them out of Kansas so they won't be committed. I believe in capital punishment. I think that we must make them aware. I think there's a psychological advantage to preventing a criminal from doing serious crime if he thinks that the death penalty may be the result. Now, we've heard the last three candidates urge the re-institution of the death penalty. I just want to see all the candidates on record about this. Mr. Bicknell, you're for re-instituting the death penalty. Mr. Breyer, Mr. Hayden, as you said on your statement. Mr. Jones. Mr. McDonald. Mr. Packham. Absolutely. Mr. Pomeroy. I have said I would reinstate it. It is not the prerogative of a governor to put his personal values above the wishes of the people.

Thank you. Now to conclude tonight's program, we'll hear from each of the candidates in statements to last up to a minute and a half. The order for the closing statements was determined and are drawing before the program began. And first is Richard Packham. Thank you. The strength of our economy is going to reflect in large measure the commitment that we have to the basic traditional American values commitment to family. The strong family life generates the kind of security and the kind of environment in which we have the most productive people. We have people who then generate good ideas in a variety of ways begin to strengthen all segments of the economy. So strengthening our commitment to those values is one of the goals that I would have as governor of Kansas. A governor is not an overlord. He's a servant. And he should be in the mode of one who reinforces the values that serve the people best.

That would be my first order of business. Second order would certainly be as quickly as possible to move toward reduction of tax rates. Taxes are strangling the American economy, not just Kansas. We're working the first four to five months of each year now in an effort to pay the federal and state tax bite. We're damaging the economy substantially. Those would be major issues for me along with reinstituting the death penalty. Our second closing statement will be made by Larry Jones. The issues in this campaign are not altogether dollars, jobs, new investments as important as those are or even crime and punishment. Wondering around Kansas for since January, working as hard as I know how to ask questions of people, what do you want from your governor? The answer is clear. They want leadership.

Winston Churchill said a leader must lead. By Lieutenant Governor and I have tried to do that in response to that admonition. We have prepared our plans that will bring the Larry Jones and Budberg administration into full force day one in our administration. We have an exceptional background of preparation and experience and a record of accomplishment in leadership and business and economic development and education and government itself. We're ready to provide that kind of leadership that Kansas really needs not only to reestablish the economic vitality of this state but to preserve and enhance the quality of life in Kansas that has made us a special people in the past. And we just simply deserve to enhance for the future. I'd appreciate your vote for Larry Jones on August 5th. Now we'll hear from Jack Breyer.

Thank you very much and my thanks again to the public television stations throughout Kansas and and Missouri for making this opportunity available for all of us as candidates. You've heard lots of questions and lots of answers and now it's up to you to sort it all out to determine in fact who you want the Republican nominee for governor to be on Tuesday, August 5th. I'm here to ask you to vote for Jack Breyer. Jack Breyer is a guy who has served as Secretary of State these past eight years and has demonstrated his leadership. He's demonstrated his experience and he's done what he said that he'd do every time he's taken the mantle of leadership. I'm the candidate who's offered the specific directions and the specific plans about how we get state government under control and off the backs of Kansas. But most importantly what I offer for you and my running mate with Harlan Prittle is a direction for the future and that's really the critical area for us. I know there's lots of confusion with all of the candidates but please remember Jack Breyer is the only candidate who's been on the ballot statewide. I've run twice. I've won twice. I've served the people of Kansas. I know that Harlan Prittle and Jack Breyer can serve them again and I hope that you'll vote for me on August 5th.

Now a closing statement from Mike Hayden. I want and ask for your vote on August 5th. I learned my values as a farmer's son in Western Kansas. I begin to develop my leadership skills as an infantry officer in the jungles of Vietnam. My experience has led me to serve 14 years in the Kansas legislature. I have cast over 12,000 votes on the public policy choices of this state and I have served the last four years as Speaker of the House. But most importantly I have a vision for the future of Kansas. Our two young daughters must be left with the legacy of economic freedom of choice and educational opportunity. If you make our family the first family and Jack Walker, Lieutenant Governor and Mike Hayden, Governor of Kansas, you won't be disappointed.

Gene Becknell. Yes. In my commercials I have made a statement that Kansas is losing jobs that companies like Coleman and Boeing are creating jobs in other states. Apparently that's created problems and I just wanted to say that yesterday Boeing and Coleman issued separate statements on behalf of Larry Jones criticizing my campaign. I'm asking Larry to come out from behind the corporate hood skirts of Coleman and Boeing and I've reserved two minutes of TV time on Saturday where Larry can stand on his own and defend his record and then I'll do the same and I'll speak for in the second part. Then you know I'm waiting now Larry to hear your response. His campaign has told me it's not his fight but it's rather ironic that yesterday that Boeing and Coleman both on the same day came out and criticism of me so I'm just wanted to clear the air. Mr. Jones, do you have a very brief response to that? I'll try to keep it brief. Could you do it in about 20 seconds?

For some reason that seems weird to me Mr. Becknell has decided to tackle and criticize Boeing and Coleman and which do you go beacon and I have no part of that I don't speak for Boeing I don't speak for the ego beacon and I haven't spoken for the Coleman company for a year. So if he wishes to debate them on his own time and money he's welcome to do so. We'll have a closing statement now from Bill McDonald. Thank you. This year in Kansas will prove to be a very exciting year for Kansas and all of his people. The reason that I believe that is because of the number of choices that we are allowed to make this year in our state. I realize that there's over 350,000 unaffiliated voters in the state of Kansas. The reason for that is because those people have not seen anything in the parties that they desire to be affiliated with. When we started our campaign our basic campaign was for the people of Kansas to offer an opportunity for those people to vote for us for the governor's office of the state of Kansas.

As I have gone through the campaign I've found that people are very apathetic as far as the government not only in the state but as far as the United States. And that a lot of times when they voted on different issues those things get passed or approved anyway if they're voted down if they vote for them they may not get them. And so people have come to an area of very non-involvement in government. I would ask that all people throughout Kansas would go to the polls August 5th. Those people that are unaffiliated to affiliate with either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party and at that time which is according to my knowledge legal to do at that time to affiliate. And to vote for that candidate that you feel would speak best for you as governor of the state of Kansas. Thank you.

Ms. Palmer. Kansas is at a crossroads. We in Kansas have come on hard times with farms for opposing banks failing. People being on unemployment compensation and businesses not having people to buy things. And also at a point of opportunity in which we can go forward. I believe in the strength of the people. And I'm committed to helping them solve the problems that we have. I'm committed to using your tax dollars wise life. And I'm committed to listening to what you have to say about what you need. I want to put the work experience that I have had in leading government and in working with organizations and people to use. To help the people of Kansas go forward now and in the future. As governor, I look forward to working with you to solve our problems. To make Kansas a leader in the nation, a leader in the heartland. When my eight years of governor, as governor are over the highest compliment that I could receive would be that I had truly been the people's governor.

Thank you. Thank you. One final question. On Wednesday, will this be one happy family? Will six of you support the seven? Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Be one tired family, but it'll be a family together. Thank you very much. Well, we thank each of the candidates for being with us tonight. And we thank our panel of reporters. On Tuesday, the voters of Kansas.