Midday; Mainstreet farm crisis

Minnesota Public Radio's Main Street Radio was supported by a major grant from the Blendon foundation strengthening rural Minnesota's communities through a grant making leadership training and conferences. Good afternoon. This is Mark style and we have a kitchen full of folks here at the Gloria and Jim Langan farm in western Minnesota. The coffee is on and there is a bowl of blueberry muffins here with us on the table. It's nice and warm inside outside there's a howler of a northwest wind and the wind chills are below zero this afternoon. This is a kitchen with a history. During the farm crisis politicians lenders farmers and others said in the chairs we're sitting in talking about their future and Agriculture's future farmers on the verge of losing their land have cried at his table. Jesse Jackson sat here Hollywood stunned by when filmmaker Lee Grant visited while making a documentary. All of that during the farm crisis no one's sure how the years between 1903 and 87 got that lean but it stuck. It describes a time when farmers like those surrounding us here in these newly harvested fields in Polk County spent sleepless nights intensities wondering if their lives on the land could continue.

The farm crisis changed life forever on the MATY sin farm in southwest Minnesota. Larry and Maurice Mathieson filed for bankruptcy more than 10 years ago but fought back and held on to the farm they call home. Today a small car heard grazes pasture land flanking the can arrange the creek with the help of a son Larry also runs a hog operation. The MATY says eyes sometimes mist over as they talk about their lives. Larry snow white beard frames a weathered 57 year old face gesturing with her hands Marlice Mathieson says this is still a family farm even though Larry works full time as a truck driver and a son in law rents the cropland. I'm here alone most of the day and I babysit but I don't have a lot of adults to talk to. And it used to be busy all the time and machinery and trucks and cars. And it's kind of lonely. I enjoyed it when our son in law was taking out corn because the tractors are running in the elevators and kind reminded you of the old days when when we were involved with

it the old days include the good times of the 70s and the bad days of the 80s the magician's were one of thousands of families caught in an economic bind so tight no farmer escape the squeeze. Marcus and Larry remember the pain. Oh it was terrible. The worry was unbelievable. Mary and I would go to bed at night we would not sleep a wink. We would just you couldn't sleep because you didn't know where your next meal was coming from. I think depression going to get you know when my livelihood took my job to do everything. What do you do. You couldn't but yeah. Sure. There's really nothing to do so just give us more time to sit and think. 35 I don't know what 30 some 500 no guys. Thirty seven fine. I thought if I felt that if I sent a ham during the farm crisis one farmer's life was

transformed into another's bargain. Sometimes demonstrators tried to block auctions. Some farmers gave up voluntarily and sold out. Others waited for the foreclosure notice or filed bankruptcy a loss of farms heard other parts of rural life. Stores closed school enrollments fell and property values declined. Western Minnesota farmer Paul Gillespie was worth a million dollars at one time but the farm crisis took most of it away. You never had a whole lot all your life until in the 70s in and things went wild you think by gosh you will never make enough bad deals that you will go broke. But it don't work that way. You might think you're going to make it forever but you don't for ever. Lasted about seven years. It started in 1973 with one of the most spectacular explosions of farm prosperity ever. Richard Nixon was president and the Soviet Union was short of grain sales to Russia and other nations cut into U.S. grain

supplies boosting demand and raising crop prices to record levels. Farm income nearly doubled between one thousand nine hundred one and seventy three. The early 70s were boom time and no one predicted a bust. Iowa State University economist Neil Hurrell says it left farmers with substantial material gains. But he wrote in their normal conservative spending philosophy prices soybeans went from about 345 a bushel. To about $9 corn went from a dollar twenty a bushel to three dollars or more and that had a profound effect upon many people. And the AHA the bad old days are all behind us. Spurred on by record profits farmers borrowed heavily to increase production. Government officials at all levels urged them on. Next an agriculture secretary Earl Butz led the charge telling farmers to feed the world by planting fence row to fence row.

We've had 180 degree turn in philosophy in our farm problems in the last year or two after 40 years of a philosophy of cut back and curtailment. We now turn around to a philosophy for production of turning our farmers loose producing for a growing market of using this tremendous production resource we have in the United States and using it effectively. Larry Mathias and smiles when he recalls the boom times of the 70s. That's great big guy. You always look how much better it was going to be next year. You always got that optimism you know. You would trade in high grain prices didn't last. But the expansion mentality did. Farmers were on a shopping spree. Economists Neal Harle there was a waiting list long enough so it took about a year to get a new tractor at that point. People were using their additional income to buy equipment. We had a boom and combine sales and a boom in tractor sales and of course they were also bidding up

land. Land prices doubled then doubled again in Southern Minnesota's Martin County one field brought $4000 an acre farmers paid for the boom with borrowed money. Western Minnesota farmer Carmen fern Holt says they tried to use the beneficial side of inflation. Inflation is always good for the farmer it Fact is good for everybody if you know how to use it. And I think a lot of us in the 70s and 80s didn't use it properly I think we let it get away from us instead of being concerned about our debt load. We felt that we were going to stay in this is expand expand expand the record grain prices posted earlier in the decade had disappeared never to return. Many farmers were losing money on their crops but covered losses with gains produced by inflation. Fern Holt says they used inflated land and machinery values as collateral on loans. For example if I would buy land at 500 dollars an acre the next year let's say the land prices would be up at six or seven hundred. I had I had paper equity in that land so I could go and say look I've got more equity here I can borrow

more. And Afoa has found the secret to form the bar. The bar. Bar the bar by the late 70s groups like the National Farmers organization sounded the alarm saying agriculture was not as prosperous as many believed. It cost more to raise some crops than they could be sold for. Farmers upset with their declining financial condition formed a new organization the American agriculture movement. It gained widespread attention with several protests tractor Cade's to the nation's capital as the 1000 eighties began a series of events single the end of the farm boom. The 17 million tons of grain ordered by the Soviet Union in excess of that amount which we are committed to sell will not be delivered. With that announcement in early 1980 President Jimmy Carter halted grain sales to the Soviet Union to protest their invasion of Afghanistan. The embargo is most important impact was psychological. Farmers sighed as a signal that Washington didn't care about their

future. At the same time the Federal Reserve Board began an all out war on inflation. Economist Neil Harle says farmers were among the first affected. We can live with about anything but what is painful is saying change your career you can live with inflation or you can live without inflation. But what is most difficult is living in a world in which you're going from one to the other. And that's what really stresses the system. And it did in the 1970s and 80s the Federal Reserve Board choked inflation by restricting the money supply in just three years the rate of inflation dropped from 14 percent to 4 percent. But the action also caused interest rates on loans to soar. Farmers rely on borrowed money to pay spring planting and other costs. But many could not pay interest rates which top 20 percent in the early 80s. I have been far reaches 1946. When I got out of service. And a place to be in foreclosed reflex is 1948.

And we were progressing really well up to about 19 79 or 80 when the economy went to pot the interest going up and the price of commodities went down and we could no longer make our high interest March 1983. A farmer speaks from the steps of the Lincoln County Courthouse in Ivanhoe in southwest Minnesota. Hundreds of people there staged one of the first public demonstrations about the economic noose tightening around thousands of farmers. And as you're aware there is a force air strike. Should I care. I got people in the government I guess. I just don't care to call John up now and I'm going to do a song with it before and it's I'm trying to do once and everybody can join in we shall not be moved today. We shall. We shall we shall be

just like the thing. That stands in the. South. Many farmers focus their anger about feeling economic conditions on easy targets like lenders and the government. But something more complex was under way in farm areas inflation had not only ended but had been replaced with deflation. Prices were actually going down. The most dramatic example was land farmers unable to meet high interest payments began selling land to meet their bills. Buyers quickly realised these were forced sales and farmers would take bargain prices. Western Minnesota farmer Carmen fern Holt's there was no longer the pressure to keep the land land up and so it started tumbling locally for example I think we peaked at sixteen eighteen hundred dollars an acre and I think it was two years later. Land was down at six and seven hundred dollars an acre. But it happened quite

quickly. It was as if the value of a $10000 Chevy parked in a farmer's garage was cut in half overnight. Maybe the farmer still owed seven thousand on the car. Suddenly more was owed on the car than it was worth. And both lender and borrower faced a loss. Economist Neil Harle says that's what happened as land prices went into a freefall in one year we lost over 30 percent of land value the year 1985. And so it strikes terror in the hearts of a lender. You cannot believe. How frightened people were in 1984 85 and 86 when we were seeing a value cut out of balance sheets the way it was in the late 80s. Just incredible the drop in land values dragged down the value of other farm assets like machinery and buildings thousands of Minnesota farmers were trapped. There was not a public action was not present for the entire day. Yeah good. Legal. Action.

It is. Farm protest became more vocal and widespread in some areas the future of one farm became a rallying point three times a foreclosure sale was scheduled for the Langman farm in western Minnesota three times demonstrators forced a postponement while the protesters kept the land from being sold publicly. Jim Langan discouraged private attempts to buy it. The neighbor called up one day and he said Jim your farms ever ties in the newspaper. Foreclosure. So he said to me you are interested in buying and I said well you you can go ahead and buy it if you want to but there won't there anything grow on it. He said why not I said because I'll burn everything off of there that that grows on there and I said if I don't burn it off I said I'll all after put so much advertising on there nothing will ever grow there. And I minute you know I don't you know that we do not want to inquire in protesters look to the

past for strategies like the penny sales of the Great Depression when farmers bit a few cents. So machinery could be cheaply returned to the owner. I don't I don't get it. The best guess I am of the people that do much yes kids are not great thank no director. Let's just work is one that you can do that I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't want it. Larry and I admitted right away to our friends and family that we were in financial trouble. Southwest Minnesota farmer Marlice Mathias and our friends were in the same financial trouble but did not admit it so we did feel really alone. It would have really helped some of our friends would have said hey look we don't have any money either. But the pretense was there that they were doing well and we weren't. And so Mary and I both felt like failures. The social stigma of financial ruin weighed heavy on stoic farmers. Some bore the weight alone. Others reached out this ex farmer turned a public meeting into a

display of private grief. I started farming at the age of 14. I saw father have more respect. For the tourist I have prayed to Markov all my life. But what happened to him but never happened to me. Maybe he never lost a spot on buddy Boston so. I never came back as more farmers went out of business calls for help increased in southwest Minnesota one group held a series of meetings in late 1904 when organizers expected dozens of people hundreds would show up. The public outpouring of support attracted widespread media attention and gave the new group its name. The rally is going to start we're going to call it the ground what we're going to call it Brown I mean you know groundswell or yeah yeah we're going to call it the ground so are do or die. Now. Her. Preparations continue for what could turn out to be a

huge protest at the Minnesota state capitol next Monday a group called ground swell has scheduled a rally at the capitol to protest the severe economic problems facing many Minnesota farmers groundswell was marvelous thing. Bobby pole Zene helped organize ground swell she says financially desperate farmers reached rock bottom. But instead of giving up they fought back. They finally have a voice. It was their own voice not mine. These people they poured out they dug in their heels they pounded their fists on desks. That means that they went to the banker and said enough. They were no longer ashamed to show up and use their voice and to be shown on camera and saying Hey look. We're going down now. If we don't stand up for what's right right now we're going to lose on us.

You laugh about that. It's a proven fact. That. If you stand. If you stand alone you're going to. Go. After the world that's lad the left instead of. By. The. Right. They grandfathers they left Sweden because they were peons over there. And I let me fight back. That's just exactly what we're going to be here. That's PR. I think there's great hope in the midst of this unbelievable heartache and despair that's going on. I would give up my life if it meant that our farmers could receive a fair price for what they produce and it would help ensure our family farm system for eternity. But I'll tell you this we will win we will win we will. We love. You. Groundswell and other farm groups lobbied state and federal government. The initial reception in Washington was chilly.

President Reagan's budget director David Stockman blamed farmers for their problems. For the life of me I cannot figure out why the taxpayers of this country have the responsibility to go in and refinance bad debt. That was willingly incurred by consenting adults when out and bought farmland when the price was going up and thought they could get rich. Eventually the president did increase government aid direct federal payments to farmers doubled in three years helping keep thousands on the land. By 1987 federal aid accounted for more than 40 percent of total farm income. Minnesota lawmakers also helped this state representative from western Minnesota said his home district was suffering. We got five suicide just ripped down in the last week. Weeks and three of them have been farmers and I've sent letters of sympathy to those people and I've told them I'm doing the best that I can. Last November they looked at us because we asked them just elect us to lead them. Let's do that shall we.

The state approved funds to reduce farmers interest payments on loans and they set up mediation sessions between farmers and lenders. But the challenge laid down by Reagan budget director Stockman reverberated through agriculture. Who's to blame for the farm crisis. Retired banker Eugene Orme Berg worked in hard hit southwest Minnesota during the agricultural bust. Oh I'm sure that there's blame on both sides. Farmers were eager to borrow and bankers were eager to loan lenders went through their own nightmares during the farm crisis. Two bankers in southwest Minnesota and one in Iowa were murdered in farm related incidents. Others were threatened or Burke says many farmers did not understand that government regulators were pressuring bankers just as intensely as bankers were pressuring farmers may well go over these loans and and give us a schedule and say well we're. We're going to be back in six months and we want some improvement on these loans. You had a time schedule to follow and if the loan was the same six months later.

The regulatory people actually had the authority to remove you from your job. Still many farmers have one enduring memory of the farm crisis that if they decided against buying land or machinery they could have muddled through with half the pain. Larry remembers 80 acres a lender urged him to buy. He said there just one thing about it Larry said there is no more land. He said that $2000 nager land in 10 years is going to be worth $6000 so if you never make a nickel fine it he said it's going to be a good investment for. Farmers who survive the crisis are very careful not how they spend their money. They're specially watchful of debt. Economist Neil Harle says that's an excellent bulwark against a repeat of the 80s.

But it's no guarantee when people's memories begin to fade. And you've changed the cast of characters and they don't really believe anymore that there was a serious problem. That's when you have difficulty. Good afternoon. This is Mark style and you're listening to a special mainstreet radio broadcast. Our topic the farm crisis of the 1980s the coffee's on at the gym. And Gloria Langdon farm your Starbucks in western Minnesota with us this afternoon at our table is Jack Morris Polk County Extension director. Jack has a listen to that. You know it struck me that there's a real issue I guess with a lot of people did the farm crisis ever really end. Well actually it's still going on. We're still in a situation right now where we

have in this area of the state particularly a situation where farmers have had a hard time getting their crop out this fall even though we've got a good crop. We've been trying struggling through harvest and there's I'm sure there's pressure making loan payments right at the very moment primarily because of the difficult time we've had this fall and getting our crop up. So yes I think that. We're still struggling but the situation is a bit different now than when in the 80s. But also what are some of the challenges. What are some of the major differences. Well I think right now. We have a decent crop out there is have indicated it's just a matter of getting it in. I think that all we have a situation now where interest rates are lower than they were in the 80s. Surely there were interest

rates in the 80s or in 10 12 13 14 15 percent areas of course are a little lower today. I think that we've learned some things about from the 80s tickly farmers and lenders creditors. I think we've learned a few lessons that maybe we need to make some of these things work on paper before we before we go out and buy more than we can afford to pay for land and other inputs and also I think there's a better communication now between farmers and lenders there was certainly one of the things that was going on in the 80s was there was a breakdown. Of communications often between creditors and lenders. And then that's understandable as we were saying and I can imagine his being unable to pay somebody who you borrowed money from and certainly the

stress of that made communication difficult I think that that's been improved. Jim Wayman you managed to stay on your farm after considerable struggle. The land is yours but you rented out what's it like driving through these these great golden fields of corn down the long driveway to your farm house between fields that you didn't plant and you won't be harvesting corn still standing out here right along the driveway this year so it's probably a pretty good feeling to drive by and think going to somebody else as the harvest and I don't know when I see the combine stuck in the mud right around here why it feels all right. I sometimes get a little bit of urge to drive that combine but when I see one stuck in the mud I feel pretty good about driving by it. Now your story was closely followed in the middle 80s. Give us a short. Summary of how that all came out. There were the demonstrations at the a plan for closure

sales of the thing never was sold out at foreclosure. Take it from there how did you manage to come back and own the land. Well at that time of course the the protests were the beginning of the mediation process because at that time you had there there was no mediation. So it was a forced mediation through the people pulled together to force that to happen. And so at that time we thought that it probably wouldn't help us but through the legislative process and so forth as a year or so went by it really did in the helping us because we had the first right of refusal to buy the land back in the first of all we had the first right of refusal to rent it back so we continued to to stay linked to the land that way. And then in the end they did end up buying the land back and sold the two parcels off and we were able to keep one hundred twenty acres. You believe that activism in the 80s groundswell and the other groups did did a lot of good for farmers. Well yeah I think so. Yeah you bet I mean the mediation process probably would be even taken place without

that that that process of protest is a right that we have in this country that's how this country was founded. From oppression in Europe and so it's in our roots it's back and I think that that process we had to go through that process to reach the point of mediation somebody had to take a stand and it just happened to be. I just happen to be one of those. Jack Morris hope county extension agent the mediation process that evolved that seemed to do a lot of good out here to tell us what happened. Well I think it did. As Jim indicated it was a result of the pressure that was brought to bear down at the legislature and nineteen eighty six in March the mediation program was part of the farm this farm bill that came from out of there and they extension offices in each county was had the responsibility of cordoning and managing the farmer

lender mediation program in Minnesota. And I think that it was it had a lot of doubters when it started farmers themselves and lenders. And but as we got into it we found that the process gave us an opportunity to. To get things started in situations that had kind of broken down and the process really was a chance to get all of the lenders or the creditors around the table and see if we could work out a solution to the. Problem that we were dealing with and so on. I think in the best part of it probably was the fact that it opened up communications between lenders and farmers and this is what our lender says. And the farmer would actually get together on that with you and you would sit down and well talk about

how. Oh definitely. See the way it worked was a way it starts is that a foreclosure notice goes out from an initiating creditor and. Copy that goes to the county extension office and then our responsibility was to. 2 If this particular farmer wanted to request mediation and we he would come in and request mediation we go ahead and set up the mediation process we'd name a mediator we do a financial analysis of the farm and get them ready for the mediation. How many how many did we have Jack. Well Jim we had we were one of the big guns and yeah in the state at nine hundred eighty nine. And just the track this morning and we had about a hundred eighty mediation requests at that time and there was highest in the state in this county. Yes in Polk County. And the thing that you have to realize too is that every farmer

that got a foreclosure notice didn't request mediation and these were just the right questions. And I'm looking at it from over history I know I've determined that about half of those that got mediation or foreclosure notices actually requested. So you're still dealing with mediation how many cases you have. Well yeah I'd say happens at Polk County must once again is one of the leading counties. Hope County in Roseau County just happened to be the two counties in the state that are taking up a lot of mediation. Requests at the moment. We've gotten 14 requests since August and that's rather troubling. But I think it reflects the difficult fall weather had out. There's weather I hope it's related to weather. In fact I'm happy to know that within it during the last two weeks have not named him to her but they were coming real

fast a. Couple weeks ago and were at the Jim Langan farm again in western Minnesota on a cold windy day but it's nice and warm here inside. Jim looking across the fields and the woods beyond this area has changed quite a bit in the 80s. You told me what sorts of things happen how many people moved out. How many are still here. Well obviously 190 went through mediation but we I don't know just how many of those. Stayed I know that within within six miles of my farm here of people that I you know you're only in contact with so many. I know that we counted 32. Young family farmers that that moved away and. As far as Arizona Montana different different places and took different jobs and and that's kind of hard to see happen. I mean that's it was a it was it was a tough emotional thing to see

other farmers losing their farms here. You know it's this is a community and and some some didn't want to face reality that that was happening and they just kind of just it was like not there but the but others others face the reality like myself and said we got to do something about this you can't just let this continue. You know and it still continues which whether it's weather related or whether agriculture just can't seem to get its act all together I don't I don't know this executive. I had one thing Martha. There's a I think there's a common misconception among non farm people and some foreign people also that a mandatory mediation essentially meant mandatory write downs alone. And really the process it was a process where in the you meant mandatory mediation meant that you sit down for 60 days at the

max around the table and would bring all the creditors not just the initiating creditor all of the creditors that have involved in this farm operation and with the help of mediator see if we can work out a solution. You know most of the time we could well yes I'd say that you and I made majority of the cases a favorable. Solution was was reached and it wasn't always right down there was there were other things that mediators were able to come up and predators in the farmer come up to a solution you know. But I think to get that thing about it is that the thought process in putting that together and I think Jim you were involved in lobbying for it was it was the getting those those negotiations back on track which had broken down and there were

we dealt with creditors and farmers it had been talked seriously for some time. Oh I think it went to. It was other things though that we lobbied for too I mean we were lobbying for a minimum price on a culture commodities which some agreed some did not. I still feel pretty strongly about that. You can say all you want to the prices are up right now corn is approaching $3 around here now in some areas it's over $3 but if you look at the cost of a new combine Today it's well over in excess of a hundred thousand almost approaching 200000. And you're raising hundred sixteen bushel corn two hundred fifty bushel corn in different areas of the state. We still don't have a good enough price to pay for those machines I mean it's still it's still it's still isn't in a fair agri GM and also if your livestock farming today.

And you look at our current $285 corn. Then it's really hard. And Berryman today is you know kind of getting close to just about break even right given today's prices given the thing I want to be in for the last or so higher talking earlier about when when our barn burned down and it's a farm and they consume lime Jack you were right one of the first guys was the door one right want to burn down and the price of milk and 179 on that part burned almost $12 million. And what is it today. Well it's probably around 13 but but the costs of productions which are and growing up in the with this corn price where it is and and the other input costs going up that it's difficult and you've got to get production to get. Make her work. OK yeah this is a special mainstreet radio broadcast we're talking about the farm crisis. We're talking to you from the gym in Gloria Langan farm just west of Starbuck in western Minnesota at the kitchen table and talking about

things that kind of piqued I guess about 10 years ago kind of the 10th anniversary 1985 was it was a pretty tough year. You know listening to our story before and hearing David Stockman talk about his famous comment that you know he couldn't understand why anybody would want to help farmers that much stuff touched a real nerve and people didn't discourage you. Jim I don't think this carries me but it's you know it's it's just he he don't you know it's interesting that he's the head of this or at that time he was the head of the MP doesn't understand he didn't understand agriculture at all because to understand agriculture how it actually works is it's it's it's kind of incredible because if you're your paychecks come through the federal government if it wasn't for that at that time I think to the penny anybody stand out here and and it's gone through the same kind of struggles now they're talking and they're lobbying this farm bill thing now and you know and

it's it's the same old thing they're going to cut subsidies down if they do that the rural areas are going to the small farms in the rural areas are really going to hurt. David Stockman was from a farming background I understand he grew up on a farm but that's one of the interesting footnotes I guess of this whole thing. Sometimes statements like you have to turn people on and encourage them to work harder and get together and gather to. That's one thing I've found interesting that after that comment that did seem to if you go back and read some of the newspapers the magazines from that period it kind of marked a turning point either one of those statements was you know well who was it that said the export will export to farmers without Reagan himself or was asked I think I think that might have been Mr. Reagan will see then it turned on him it was export Reagan and you know so it was funny how that was all political and and people that were in the firmament

got politically labeled in different in different ways and in fact in 19 about 1975 I was on the Republican committee and then of course when the farm crisis came in Jackson stayed here and he was a Democrat so I was labeled a Democrat so and it was mostly labeling because I don't think anybody knew who have voted. Kind of interesting what I was interested in was kind of getting at is that Washington Congressman senators some of them seem to be kind of slow to grasp what was actually happen say in 83 84 when you know people were talking a lot about farm situation but not much has been done yet. Do you think some of that was because they had taken an attitude that oh here come the farmers again and they're going to be telling us we need to do this and it's so bad out there that people are losing their land and we know that you know what a few months it will

disappear. Yeah I do. I do think that like for instance when the when the protest in 79 the tractor Cade took to Washington that the that they did think that the farmers would go away and the farmers did go away. I mean there were only so many that could still stand to stay out there in Washington for a month time and those are those are very dedicated people in the American agriculture movement that stayed in Washington for weeks and weeks on end and with their tractors and their families back on the farms of dedicated people. But what they needed at that time was they needed more help I mean there's there were still two million farmers and there was only probably 30000 of them alter doing the job for the whole works and if the farmers had the time when I went to Washington in 1079 I had never seen so many farm camps in one place at one time. To say it was incredible but they needed to have more. And they needed to follow through and that's that's a problem today. The problem

today is that the farmers are out here fighting in the mud to get their crop out while the legislators in Washington are making decisions about what their lives are going to be in the next seven years in the future and I think that process the political process that farmers really still need to get involved more. And in that process and do not they don't have the time. Yeah right. You know they're they're fighting with a man who's going to name David Duke to get their crops out in right now and they have no way the right to get out there. Julie from Mina Tuck is with us. I guess you know my comment is that during the farm crisis I really with involved it in several ways because some of the farm product out there and that's what you're going to go to my family with on a farm I was dating an attorney many of my close friends were young. Well we're not that good or bad or small bank and I guess I've been listening all morning as I'm driving. I'm actually in. You're Minnesota and I think there's a good point. One point

that everybody really suffered. If you would have seen the videotape of those faces I still have some of that video and there's nothing like oh look you know people buy whether it's the sheriff having to sell that farm or attempt to sell it or someone from the ground well or that farm family it with a really really a difficult time and I'm not sure people if you will from that. Yeah and I guess the second thing is that I don't really know that we've done a good job at getting people I live in a big city you know and I don't know that they know really what farming all about and what happened in the end though that my comic. All right thanks thanks for calling in this accident the first one. Everyone suffered. You certainly could see it in this in the smaller towns in all the towns really with the businesses closing right. You know that's that's true. When you get out in this storm but then learn to say yes. LOWRY situations everybody's a farmer when you live in town or you know around the country and when when the farmers are hurting and that is hurting and

so when they are under stress everybody's feels the stress. She talked about the sheriff. Feet feeling the strain and the sheriff of Polk County at that time was Gerald Noyes no longer here but Gerald Gerald Malone was was a very good sheriff. Thanks and he handled the situation very well I mean I spent quite a few hours in the sheriff's office because of the protests because they were afraid of the Jesse Jackson was you know life would be threatened and in lives of people were being threatened which was incredible as far as I'm concerned but it does happen when you get this type of situation and Gerald ML really handled that well. The people who are demonstrating at that time of the groundswell groups in the others. You know I think well with the law enforcement was there any radical undercurrent groups coming in from the outside. There was most of that just just talk. Now there were there were always radical groups and

of course American agriculture movement groundswell by some was labeled radical but it but it really was not it was a nonviolent type organizations. If you call violent taking a tractor to a protest and then so be it but but there were radical organizations that were under current influencing and sending letters to sheriffs and sending letters to radio stations and things that we had nothing to do with. And so those things happen when you're in the public you know in the public eye. We're going to take another phone call now cliff from Little Falls is with us. Good afternoon good good good good program. I'd like to speak to price I think it comes down to if a culture crisis is ever going to get settled it's going to come down to two producers those that are working well and making the food are going to have to get a price. And my understanding about 90 percent of the populace United States are consumers of food and about two percent produce the food and fiber now in the Cargill zone the Archer Daniel middle

and all the rest of them out there be admitted Amarilly MPI or whoever it is processing processing manufacturing wholesale and retail and takes the lion's share of the dollar that goes into food. And the producer just isn't getting it. It's my understand it costs more to buy a box the box of cornflakes comes in and then does the buy the corn from the farmer to put in there and that or it's for Cheerios or for whatever and milk $13 milk in the store when it's processed and put into a bottle is about 35 bucks a hundred to farmers getting roughly 13 or 12 and a half or whatever. And until we as consumers want to stand and say I want the guy producing or the man or the woman the woman is very much involved in agriculture producing this food. I want them to get more until we make that stand I don't think we're going to see agriculture crisis be solved. I recall Jack Morris thank you. How about that I mean are consumers ever going to stand for higher food prices to put more money in the farmer's market. Well I'm a consumer and I certainly would my family would

I I we like good quality food. I think American consumers like good quality food and the difficulty is getting getting to the farmer and the distance between the field and the counter in the in the shopping center or wherever. So yes I think that this is a problem and certainly something that needs to be looked at and. Somehow we need to. Try to get more return for the scraps and the thing that we're getting into now is kind of a popular thing and thought out and in the in the area is a value add and. Where the farmer can actually hang on to some of that production longer you know and to participate in this value added or this added cost of getting it in the consumer. And then this is all the ethanol plants for example

Jim and. Vegetable processing or freezing plant that we're going in with it and I was going to say some of those are fairly noncontroversial Well they are but some are very controversial when I'm thinking of the large hog operation yes. Right and those are sprouting up. Yes they are and dairy operations also and think about them at least the ones that I'm dealing with are her case of the dairy farm in my county instead of one family being involved. There will be three families involved and so it's to some degree I think we need to understand that by that is happening and it's happening because. Of the labor involved in caring and the fact that Berryman Jim he has to be very much a guide airman just don't can't be tied down and fears it's right is you.

We have to run from Litchfield is on the line with us. Morning or afternoon rather. I wish you'd discuss the appropriate technology issue for a little bit I wonder if one of the problems we had in the 80s was Wasn't that too many farms especially fault farms had only one option in the technology to use which is basically high machinery high cost high capital low labor type equipment and technology to use in production. We're still farming and we have gone through rotational grazing technology we don't buy new machinery anymore we just raise our animal. She believes we cannot off the grass the grass that we farm and it seems like the lower tech we go to try to get into rotational grade in the more money we make. I think a lot of small farms family farms still could be in business but research needs to be done. You come up with appropriate technology for small farms situation. I want to discuss a little bit. Well I'd like to relate to that and I think it's here in western Minnesota specifically out at the Morris experiment

station there is going to become one of the Centers for Research in grazing of dairy and sheep and. And the research says take in a new priority over there and that's one of the things. He is going to be very you know researched and hopefully we can learn some things along with the farmers that are doing this. So. About that Jim wingman. Is it is it possible to go back in some ways I guess to to a lower technology Knology type farming. Yes I know that some of those around sustainable agriculture tell us things are around the area and I think it's a I think it's a great idea they're using less chemicals which I think were or were sometimes killing the soil when I put in too much of that on so when you go through this you kind of you make some changes in your philosophy and so forth and I think that that's a very it's a very valid point.

And I'd like to add to that to death to go that way. It does require some very very excellent management. It isn't this isn't an easy thing to do it to succeed at grazing. A successful grazing program takes a lot of. It's labor and it's a much more labor intensive years or more labor intensive you got to do it right or you're not going to be able to make it work. Before we leave this afternoon I like to get a quick thought from each of you. Jim Langan where at your farm in western Minnesota when you think back to the farm crisis what's the what's the dominant thought. Or memory that crosses your mind and it was a pain to go through. It was a pain it was a it was a hard hard time. It's you know it's like we had a lot of people that came to meetings that came to our merch and egg means and goals for me is a role people of what went through the Holiday Association movement and they said the same thing it was you know they didn't want to talk about the 1930s. Well how about you Jack.

Well the question was again you know what do you think of what's what's the first thing that crosses your mind the first thing that crosses my mind is the tears and stress that I saw across my desk with every mediation. Request that I worked with and. The difficulty that this brought to be. Those in that situation because it is because farmers traditionally. Work hard and they like to pay their bills and they this was a situation where they just because of many factors that just turned on him and he couldn't do it. Thank you. That was Jack Morris the Polk county extension agent and thank you Jim Langan for having us in your home this afternoon and it brings to a close our program on the farm crisis I'm Mark style and thanks for being with us. Main Street radio's coverage of rural issues is supported by the Blendon foundation providing leadership training through the blended Community Leadership Program.