Writers' Circle Of South Carolina; James Dickey

A production of South Carolina e TV. Hello I'm Patti just our guest on this program is James Dickey poet novelist and critic. To tell you a little bit about his background he was born in Atlanta Georgia. He received his B.A. an MBA from Vanderbilt University and between two military stints in the U.S. Army during the Second World War and in the U.S. Air Force during the Korean War. He's received many

prizes and awards for his books and he was the first Carolina professor and poet in residence at the University of South Carolina and now lives in Columbia. Two books we're going to be talking about primarily are deliverance his novel that was turned into a major motion picture and the newest book. The whole motion Collected Poems 1945 through 1992. Mr. Dickey welcome to our program will last a bit. Thank you so much for our time here at your home. That. You've had an unusually full life. You had a career as a pilot and in advertising and then in midlife turned to writing. Well as I was writing a long time of what I'm going to publish and. I didn't have a first book until I was 37 this is 1960. Which is relatively late in the day for a lyric poet who was at that time most of us. Have a first book. Or seven but. There have been people. Out of them that you can

go to other staples of this world. And I was Joseph Conrad with was. When you think of Daniel Defoe the author rather from critics of the a publisher who was 62. Cases not so exceptional. Tell me about that growing up in Atlanta and. When I grew up to write impressions. Oh hello I don't remember that we have a self in the English. But. Nobody had been left with things didn't cost me say oh yeah I remember when my family and I were outraged when they. Raised the price of a haircut from 25 to 30 seconds and that would put. A lot more than air and us out of it it had a very. Well and all of sympathetic good whatever the children wanted to do. I got we got complete backing from them my mother was an invalid. With the with heart disease and so on but she was she was still family influential on

all of us and my father was a lawyer. And we didn't get out. Hemingway says it was just a prerequisite to write him to have had an unhappy childhood and that was the fact that in my case I asked that. The sixth grade with the highest point of my life what happened they had just had a lot of good friends in and out of all the sports that would play and read a nice whistling and teacher was in the world in. The sixth grade of the river grammar should go through. We had a great big playground at the school. That's a good. Thinking about when it came time to choose a career. Well I was essential there just after. I got out of high school I went into the service like everybody else in my generation. And I love my values of the west along by the years of the war years. I look of an. Existing sort of from the standpoint of the civil have.

I happened to see the sun come up every moment. But I'm a creature of the military that was it. That. I was in there for. What used to be called the Army Air Force go off and then the good things in their lives where US was Rico and 50 during the period it was I was at home. Then twice and. Then between those which I have to try to get educated just like I went to the school with the stages that. It was just beginning to try to do. That. And then after that. I traveled a lot I lived in Europe for a couple of extended periods and. Lived in Oregon. I lived and. Lived in Los Angeles. Oh right out in the 70s. And then I was at the Library of Congress. The

careers. Of two terms a poet laureate. That's what it would be it was a poetry consultant to the library. There's a saying that same job same office. And so on and then I came back here 20 years ago. And I've been so out of years and this is a command post to go without making for a lot of my book to sort it out into the other places and so on from here but it's nice to have a fixed abode. Before that I would just travel. And so much excitement in that first part of your life and you're able to carry that over into your poetry and your writing. Well I think excitement is quite a good word to use in connection with writing that. As you get out of next. I'll be 70 next. And one of the more difficult things to do is to maintain. Your sense of excitement about what you write and you have to devise a strategy to

do that and I've got to watch out. For that. They work OK. Like in the earlier days when you first started getting some work and well I had never published anything until except in the school magazine. Vanderbilt literary magazine The Gadfly. But I began to set out a national magazine with that much to get back a letter you know form projections to have. Some place into the slaughter of you which was the recorder that I felt the best way. To think of it. And. I got it. There were poems were rejected but. After all the form rejections. Was one with something written. By the human hair and it said Not bad. That is the frame that I don't have a lot of that was included in carriage and livery of the public.

And that was exciting for you not bad not bad. What is that talking generally about poetry What is the difference between good and great Paul and. I think it is the body and forth of the single in the sense that. The killer would be. Given out by means of the book of not only a. Major words but by means of work. So you just you gain. Something from her. It's something that is until you live. Your life attitude your life. Spirit. Good evening. We got from that I remember the poet W.H. Auden talking about he says. When he read a good poem. He thanking off thought that a lot of time travel because I couldn't say it that well it was a 18th century concept of. Poetic merit of what that which would make something a little different what we

call. It meant. A. Failure of imagination itself. But you said it was Alexander's lotion it was. True which is made to advantage the rest. Put off. But Massow expressed. This audience as what you feel when you read a good poet when your food is greeted grateful and you don't feel as. If you. Think my goodness. Look at what this guy says. I could never have thought of it as thought of anything like this in a million years. But it's much better than the way I did. So consequently I see it this way. And so something even better comes along. It was. To put a lot of pressure on you as a point to write a great poem. Well I don't think about greatness. At all odd. I think about. For us. I would hate it but it was becoming fatal It is ridiculous to write poetry that would be good enough to publish. But I didn't up publishing any of

it because I wanted another element that. I wanted something that had my style about it. And that nobody could but may could have written not just of any noble good poet the number of good info it could have written it and they are all good and respectable and so I want each of them that had must have it and that I had just had to sweat for that was all that was that was tough to get. But when you get it you know you've got it. And people have called you one of the major points of the day. Well I don't know I don't. I don't write about those things I just want to write something that standard then they can make of it whatever. What about this latest book of yours the whole motion you decided to put a collection rather than any other that you wanted to do it. I had had a similar collection and Ledger 67 in. 1957 67. That I had written a good deal since that they wanted something with everything. I had written

earlier some of my earlier collections will recall that didn't one of them was called and another one was called the sense of love. Now this is a whole lot of. Old girls as what are you going to do if you get a ride most of the rights of others are when you we will have a good title the last one if you do one more maybe. Maybe the last motion of it in motion. There are many orders. That's right who died in motion but in it you do see some of the changes and yes I hope the people who are interested in my work from that standpoint will see what. I want. We have. Several books. That are already been written on there but. There are many more common so they'll have a whole can of them was a step for this poet to. Trace out whatever influences they want when they want to. Try to know whatever changes and progressions of

retrogression through well I might have gone through during all these years. One of the things I picked up on right away was the way you change the way you write poetry. A first in the beginning of the book it's all traditional law a felony and if you have the spaces and therefore it is washed out and I still have great respect and regard for traditional poetry and the traditional form over the years coercive verse composition I teach that the whole year. At that university but the students made that most of them have none of this oh when you need. You need to make a more cruel with words in the same sense of they would work with. A given sort of physical material like Caracas where sculpture of clay or something like that word in respect to the region and see what it will do what you did I could ask you to do and what it can't. You need to know that a lot of equally with equal force political education.

And a new way with the spaces is that a way to help people. Well I don't know either. It's an attempt to get. To get. Consciousness itself stated. Look at more truly is the news than just a regular old broken love of poetry it seems to be. Lifted. As far as it associates by means of words does it in jumps. Gap between what the doing which there is not anything. You know and then and then another. Another group of words will appear in the thing and then another one as well as a very irregular but it really is it and it gives it gives too. To the. Poem especially if it's a narrative of love so. A tremendous sense of urgency because you don't know what's going to be said. You know you don't know all the latest thing it. Might be said that. It was an interesting way to work. I thought. Could you read something from that far. Sure. If you pick it out.

Like. You're going to read an early will read an early winter and a later one. You know this is one I wrote. In college. And I never sent it out but got a nice full on. An intelligent one then go and then less want to do is collect it in this way to me to collect is enough. In this book and have a whole section of them about 40 of 50 that I never look at. And. The. Good man when I read through him I thought you know. I can see with this I'm not exactly what I would be I would do it now but. But it's a good in and out only Yet let that younger fellow have his you know. If I think it's good enough the things you should know that this is about me oversee. The place of the skull. Which says he remembers what it was Jesus was crucified. This is

different this is about one of the Okinawa. Where I used to I was really getting. Good men to the stage of enthusiasm for poetry and I had some anthologies over that. I got it with. Nobody else on earth anyway so I would go out. Some of them left out flat and I didn't get too hot in the 10 or so they would. I would. Pour some water over my head. I didn't have to do anything in the briefing in the afternoon. The next mission chosen and I thought I'd just dive in. And I would that would pose for more of my head. Take a bunch of books go out on the cliffs overlooking the bay without all those shifts of flash if an invasion ships or if the weather was beautiful. And I thought you know this is really my salvation because I really do want to survive this will and will get into poetry further maybe even light it. But then. Later on when I did that and said I'm out of that I

felt a little bit guilty about it because I felt that I had tapped into the source that my companions didn't have you know that there was something exclusive and even snobbish about it. You know when I began to have a sort of second thoughts I didn't quite do it. But I thought it was kind of my secret vice that was going to save me. So this is about that the place of the skull. I used to get up in the tent. In the canvas on over the stroke and show him the inside of an hour and. Then from my bank canteen the. Tip of a curve of water and pour it out on my head. I would be breathless. This would be breathing it all asleep. Across the downed guilt of the canvas. The shadow of a flood in the outside world would go like a bullet saying. I would drown my hands and pick up the poetry books. And walk through the area. Over the horizon of the crumbled machine gun pit and the liq Tonight Show could dazzle kicking the laces of my shoes.

Until see blue from under my belt trembled up as down to the bench in the stillness of the height I came to meet my holy masters in the Word of the gauze and powder burning. I would sit all morning in read in the sun. The page coming of my more quivered in than all the blue danced up the miles of senseless waves that spurred to say if I reached off the book my hand would die in the sea with oh I was chalet and was crane. And never touched the ships that are anchored down. The spirit moving on the face of print. Left out the night went past the auditions so he was of the fleet. I rose and starry harness on the air and in my robot mouth from out the cylinder breeze of oxygen I made a song of what I meant to kill before I poured my hanging head. From a can of water and sat again above the bay which was the word and caught my ship country ships and such a full and furious hold of cost of soul. The lines of ashen

text marked off the graves were all my men who sail the ships must die for lack of good that I had threw off the page. I bit the silent tongue of men an angels reading out of the sound of engines run up on the strip. A grizzle of fried wings saying who asks what for that a time like this is shut from pity and will slay his. Whose vision kills the meaning of his view. Only the larger war with God hath no such thing in the case. That give you a real sense of satisfaction reading that. Yeah here is my honor to know that I was a good that good that you know because I had so many doubts for so long and I still do them. But. You know you think the real harry is and that guy like. In my stomach once in a while but any young girl that does that and most of the older ones. I let's move on to a later one OK. Let's say. This is. This is

about the objection right over that. When I first moved here. Just to hear him drill it over they hear the guns going off. Field problems and so on and then that is just it's sort of like some ghosts who take over all that waiting for the day. That it became reassuring you know really protected there and here you know they became very sure they have a game look game set us to get any you know is this cool this is about that. And this is a peace time but they are it really you know ready to fight. It's. Just all about over that across the way. There's cow drums where I live. So that sleeping in a waking drum. Every day the first part of the sun. It's the rhythm and the rhythm. I live here. And my family passed in the new house in the great light of mumbling one

two three four. Marching in place like boys lay down. All voices of the living in the dead to come and hover in between brought in to cadence. It is not a hard but minute man. Someone said it is comforting comforting to hear them not ever sun up now and then I wish I had had a chance to take my chances with silence. More and more they seem to be waiting for the day more and more as my son sighs all over the house and I know I know he is counting his years. When we rise the drums of stuff. But I know from the jungle of childhood movies what that means. There is nothing in the grenades coming close a verse to worry anyone. They are expanding the range. It is only in the morning paper that a trainee hangs himself on the obstacle course. And it is nothing but nerves that make something human a cry. Throat like a needle in the sunlight from the stockade.

Whatever night I sleep assured that the drums are going to reach me at dawn like a light where I live. In my heart. My blood in my family will assemble for a Livable Countess. Dismissed personnel. The sun is clear of basic training. This time this is my war. And where in God's name did it start in peace. Two three four in peace peace peace peace one two. And sleep. Another good one. That they've been trying to find right. Let's move on now to deliverance as we have a lot in five minutes flat one your expectations for that book it was your first time I had an idea I had never thought of this inefficient before not even the shell it's not even in the the gadflies thing that I had never published any fiction and I didn't even know whether it would be. A publishable a lot. I just. Started the notion of it

started when I lived in Italy I lived in a little fishing village south of Naples to a Sorento and a mouth and I was over there and I had some poems and I was in the junior quarter of you that won some prize that they gave and this agent. From New York wrote to me is that he really would like to go and which is the most about and I'll tell you a little. And had I ever thought about a novel. And I hadn't. And had never occurred to me. But he had put the weevil the number in the mag and in my braids it has a thing about it and I could act I wrote them out and have it hand is invalid and. Living in LA just doesn't matter so that I got to thinking about it and I thought about this and I thought about that and what would it be like and what would it be about. I still could come up with anything as I had the big. Meals and that was taking a siesta and I thought I don't know what to. Tell this guy let out he's got cut off that possibility of somebody being an interested in the knowledge in all of my right. But I still don't end

it. Wait a minute. Wait wait a minute. How about this. And images come into the mind. That as of a man standing at the top of the cliff. I didn't know whether he came in one from the truth of whether he had come up to quit but in five minutes I knew the whole story. I knew who the people were going to be I knew what was going to happen to them. And so. Seven or eight years later. It was just. In The Head book and then the hit movie. He was a son of a folk myth that everybody refers to it one way or the other. It is I like it about the other. Put out by some things in it but they don't they remember. That. You wrote the screenplay for The News I did when we had to go back and forth about it. Writing is difficult because everybody wants something different. Yes I did. And it's very true to the book tried to make it as much as I would have thought of the book is better than the movie. You know I thought maybe I'm prejudiced

but we made a very good. I think. I like the music. Much and. I like some of the white water. Running all that much I think it's the accent. People still come up and talk to you about it all the time and. You know. Yes I just finished the screenplay for the second novel out. Look it's different from that but. It's too frustrating for me to write movies as I say everybody wants something different movies or some group think enterprise and. Others get off in a corner with a piece of paper. And. Pencil with rights of them as you say the second all know OM is better than the lurch. Oh yes that is it. It has a I think a philosophical if I do say so myself a philosophical depth. In it that makes deliverance look small and neat. Oh I like it I read or was it a couple of years it's still good to read that I would do it the same way again. With the second one about it's about

been minute out of play and in that play it's about a. Self-willed. O. Literate. Fellow who has a cough. And. Who of all also runs us with unproved of the movement because. This is during the war. And he's divorced and has not agreed. That he should ask yourself. One more than once or twice when the child was an infant was growing up with his mother in another city in Memphis. And has. Joined the Air Force and. He gets divided my man goes to. The central character Frank Gehry he'll go on from day to day. And he gets a telegram from his commanding officer and primary training school his son has been killed or at least. Presumed dead and disappeared. And presumed dead and his name

of the father's next of cancer instead of the mother who raised it. And the blind man partly to test him said you can get along as a blind and and part of it out of simple curiosity and something to do. He goes to the training base in North Carolina. To see what he can for that out of. The story of. What happens to. The fame from the novels. Help support sustain poetry. Or not. Not really I think it really takes the focus off of it in the ways that I would not. I don't particularly. Like because of my man for. His approach but it's not enough of this to spend all three of them in this. Rare on sure thing. What is that. Thank you thank you dan. Rather I don't know but to belittle somebody else. Douglas. Related without saving the race war. That's the hardest part to

have to take the effort out of so that so that the. Naturalist said Let us start. I want to be a sample. But then did they put their foot the first letter. And not and not. Not over the complicated language. Sensitive. Thank you for your time on this program. On Patty. The.