KGOU Sports; Bruce Drake Interview

Okay, first of all, first thing I want to know about you, I know you played in Oklahoma City. How did you wind up coming to Illinois? Well, that guy had a high school coach by the name of Roy Bennett, who was a graduate from University of Kansas. And my senior year, we had an all-state center by the name of Dick Hold and myself. And Hugh McDermott was coaching at Oklahoma at that time and talked Victor Hold into coming down here and play center for him. And I was in 1924. And since he was one year ahead of me, that opened the way for me because he got me a job for room and board. There was no scholarship at that time, Nick.

And we got a job, washing dishes and working in the dining room and so forth. So we both had jobs in Oklahoma and there was no questions asked. We didn't even go up to the University of Kansas where we were supposed to go up for an interview with Dr. Ford Seattle. So this was our first choice and regrets. What kind of a team did you have when you were playing? Well, our first year, my sophomore year, we kicked away the championship. We had five games to go and we only had to win two out of the five to win the championship. But we, so we finished second. And right after the last game of the season, we decided that it was kind of stupid that we lost the championship. So we just decided that we just, we wouldn't lose the game the next year. So we go through our junior year, we go through 18-0. We lose all game.

And at that time, they had no NCAA championship. We challenged Purdue and at that time, Piggy Lambert was coaching Purdue. And they had a center by the name of Stretch Murphy. The same height as Victor Holt, our sixth center. And they were considered in those days giants. And they also had a man plan at Purdue named Johnny Wooden. Well, McDermott tried to match up a game with him, but they wouldn't play us. So we were undefeated and placed to go. And then my senior year, that was the first year of the big six. And we did not lose a game in that one. And when I graduated, why? Mr. McDermott gave me a job as a freshman coach. And first of all, homosoics that I've been here ever since it started. Until I left here in 1955. So you were an American also?

Yes. In 1989. You lost one? Because I was an American. Well, at that time, that was a hell's foundation in Baltimore. During Victor Holt made it. He was a pair of the year ahead of that. I don't remember all those that made it that year that I did. But I made it my senior year. It was a guard. And funny thing. So the two years ahead of that played forward. But felt like in the senior year, we lost so many of our 18-0 in 1928. I talked with Dermond in to let me go back and guard in direct play. And instead of playing forward, because we were in pretty good shape up in front with a strong man like Tom Churchill, who played in on the football team, was very rugged underneath the basketball. So I made an older guard, even though I played forward for two years. Where did you play?

Well, we played when I came to OU. Where the old gymnasium was where the liberal arts building is. Well, I'll take it back. When the building was the south end of it. That was the old structure there. And then it was too small to house anybody. So we moved down to the armory and played most of our games. I hope it played there for two years. And then they started the new field house, which is the old field house now. So I played two years in the field house. And then I played one year in the armory. And, of course, we played in the field house until two years ago, one or two years ago, Reno was erected and got a beautiful place to play now. You tell me a story about the field house, why it was built the way it was. Well, originally, Benioen, our director of athletics, conceived the idea.

Well, in those days, the field house was in all sports arena. Your basketball court was generally put together in sections and then cabled together. And then it could be used for football practice and everything else in the old field house. At that time, they constructed the half of it was constructed. And the football team has worked out in there many a time on dirt floor. And then just take up the floor. In the north end, in the eastern west, there was also a pole vault in pit, which I pulled over back in there. And our heat was just gas packed into oil rooms filled with brick. That was our heating system. And so Benioen decided to have a swimming pool and build a swimming pool on the north side of the old structure. And then just about eliminate the possibility of making it any larger than it was seated about 5,000.

And pulled over because 7,000 there, one time. And so they played in that until two years ago when the Lloyd Noble Arena was open. So that says, I'm a cycle of basketball here at the University of Oklahoma, where they played in the old jail and then the arm-brain in the field house. Now in Florida, and that's one of the finest in the NR conference. I don't see this quite as many, but it's just fine to court. There's no need any word. The United States to play ball. FD finished a good night, finished play. We don't want the team in the system to go through the natural choice for that. Well, I was... No, they needed somebody to teach physical education. Actually, I signed up as a physical education instructor. That was my major. And I had been working on the Masters after I left here at New York University, also Wisconsin. And I wanted to play a lay-up ball.

So they hired me as a physical instructor. And I don't need my services to... I'm determined to help him with his basketball problem because I had such a lot of resources. So I wasn't paid for coaching freshman basketball, but I did coach him. During that 10 years, I was a freshman coach with a little schedule. I weren't allowed to at all. And so during that 10 years, that's... That gets when I started to introduce swimming. And then I was a first swimming team, also the first golf team. And then in the meantime, I was playing a lay-up ball with a lay-up ball, including fill-up 66. And the team had both a sitting-starting group of people and girls. And then I fished it off a lot, with very quickly one of the finest officials of all time. I'm from Kansas University.

So during those 10 years, I was a freshman coach. I did have awful lot of things that I enjoyed doing. And then I have been here 10 years. I'm determined to reside in physical education in the advocate of our stick coach in 1938 and 1939. When you became... What was the state of basketball amongst the nation? Well, it was going on. The powers at that time... Purdue was real strong. Dr. Bainwell at University of Wisconsin was a powerhouse in those days. They don't rush, wasn't coming along at that time. Forgalam was a great coach at that time. And of course, he was a man that I had to coach against in the conference. And then the hey guy, but... When I took over, there was about five great coaches in my estimation. That was eight-offer in rehab.

Forgalam branched the cracking. And Bainwell, there was a few more. But then we had several Eastern teams that were always good, but they didn't get the public here because they played with their games. And matches were in Heart and Micah's Clare Bee from Long Island and Mad Forman City College. So we had an angel log chick. We had a lot of the old timers that were former New York Celtic basketball players. Now they all run a science, so that goes way back. The powerhouses in those days were teams that made most of their big reputation. Winning their conferences and some of the conferences weren't too strong in those days. From top to bottom. But teams like Indiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Aggies, Long Island University, have no sure where the powerhouses are in and you're out at the time I took over.

You were very well pleased with your first team. Well, it was very gratifying. I know the year. The year that I took the head coaching job at the University of Oklahoma was the first year that the NCAA decided it was going to happen last championship. And that was decided at our national coaches meeting at New Orleans. And there where everybody was complaining about, we had no way to see it was a bad show. Other than the NIT, an invitation tournament football hadn't cut to mustard yet. They couldn't find a national champion and at this time we still don't know who's a national champ. Because it's all by pull, but chicken and basketball we have the true national champs. But in 1938, 1939, my first year, which was the first year that the NIT was a champion.

And it was to be known as a Western winner. It would be determined that in San Francisco, it was the world's fair, the treasure of it. And the other semi-finals would be worked from the United States worker. And so it was my first and my first year to not only win the conference, but I got to the NCAA and I got to be in the finals at Seattle Washington, to Howard Hopson, Oregon. One team in the NCAA championship for the first time. And it's interesting to know you talk about the big revenues and coming in off the sports now and compare it back in its infancy. So we went up there and played in the tournament. Because some of us carried on television for 11 months. And total amount of money that we received for participation in that was $370.

That was transportation and for everything. We had so little money to travel on that moment back in those days. That was for the hotel rooms. We stayed there, we had nothing to check in the hotel. And I remember a day I gave the boys a nothing to eat on when they left. Which I think, if I remember right, it was only $6. And that would be for the eat on. And if they ran out, they had big out of room. So when we had California, they made runs on the front stands. Apples and oranges and so forth. They didn't want a lot of eating on the free side because they really don't know. That was the first year of the NCAA. It was my first year coaching. I'm kind of proud of the fact that there has never been a coach. It's very first year coaching.

It went all the way to the finals of the NCAA championship. Which I'm very grateful for. It took me off the hot spot for a year coaching. But I'm going to fall down a bit. And I got the first year coaching. So there's been a lot of things that I haven't seen in a couple of minutes. I feel like I'm pretty good at it. So I'm very grateful for it. Right. Because they were able to get into the special mission. They were able to get it up there and consequently as a result of that. in a few years, the NEM was admitted to the NEM conference. I don't know, man, but it was very bad if I first year to get into it. So, that's what I thought.

Several local boys, Jim and McMath, a carry-over from the German support sketch, made all the American money in. And that's something. Several of them were on the board. So, all the kids. And now, that is pretty hard to find. Any college boy come where you've got all five players from the same state. It's very rare. You mentioned the financial expert. What kind of facilities did you have as far as that man had had? I didn't know. I was going to travel by Jens and that wall around. We had, I had, when I took over. We had no scholarship. Now, Dick, I read him when he was a painter. Or there was a gentleman on the city that just were selling money. It's one hundredth birthday. And his name was Henry Brown. I and Aaron, and he wanted to go to Kolobondik.

And his son and I were in school together in the fraternity groups. And when I took the job down here, we had no money for scholarship at all. We had to find a new job and then find a job that could work for forty cents an hour. And that was their spending money. So, I talked to Mr. Henry Brown who celebrated his hundredth birthday yesterday. And I went up there and his boy, I heard someone, he heard that. I did not talk to him out of sixty-five for machines. And I had to return to the university building. And all the profit from that went into my budget. For spending money from my athletes who were working, someone who were sleeping in fire stations to make a lot of money. Most of them, most of all,

in fact, I remember one of the first things you looked back and some of the things that you did. And the first thing I decided to decorate, you will feel those things. I got the sewing machine out on a sewing machine for flags and eggs. So, I got the sewing machine through a lot of black, but I started on a sewing machine to make a twelve flag for forty feet long. And I had the things all of it. They did so. And little things like that. And then to hang the flags, my managers didn't have enough nerve to get up in the girders' area, which is about sixty feet above that. So, I couldn't get anybody at the university building. So, I had to walk to the beams and hang those flags up. I was doing a fine manner, but down on the floor,

around the circle, trying to get me to do something we falls. I was just kind of air raising it a lot. I finally got the university building. I think it would go right underneath and go on up there. And that way I didn't have it. But those were all wonderful experiences when you looked back on what you had to go through with you and trained it. And so, the wonderful program that we have now, and that can be attributed to wonderful people here, all under a lot of great sports. I've been waiting for that many times. And also, we've got a great program next to it. We've got a great program here, and it's an excellent program for some of those. And border reasons. And the presents. People that will pull them apart, they love athletics and we're always going to have good teams like them. We are now up to around 1940. At that time, what happened when the war happened?

Well, when the war hit, things were going, the angle up here, coaches were going into the services or with the players. All the football coaches were going to accept it. It's not going to be that sort of mystery. And they all are buckle. They were too old and kind of like myself. I was 39 when they broke out. And they all went to the service. And we had a very good naval captain here. And he insisted all the naval boys going to school here to participate in some sport. So during that war, war two, one two championship football. I was not a muster for some head coach. I was a cessant.

Some of the alarm ultimately was about to hit. And everybody was doubling up. And things were pretty hairy around here. But we had some good teams. I had the smallest team I've ever been coached around ball runs. I averaged five for 10 and a half. And one accomplished championship with him. And we had very good luck in all sports during that time. And then, of course, that's when we started. A new arrow you might say is when Tatum came back and took over for football and brought a young man to the name of Bud Wolves with him. And Bud took over one year after that. And started our football time to see. And started back here with former Jones. So in 1940, we started a Pilgray

and had some great teams. Metal owners still haven't arrived yet. February 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, 19th, got to get it decided that it widened the lane to 12 feet well to make a long story short we played an M store and Hank an advocate of the man-to-man

defense decided he'd play in a one three one zone so it's set back in the zone and the outside line would say go ahead and shoot and you shoot and hit he could touch his elbow on the basket and he'd go up and get the ball and bring it down so we decide we'll we'll bank him in on the side and he won't be able to get him really trapped the ball on the side anyway I got beat pretty bad at night and I went into Hank's office we're always there after he's over and congratulated him as I walked in he said it stinks done it now that was going to he's talking about I said it sure does and that red-headed boy was gonna do a lot to change the game of basketball he said what we said rules are frozen and I said you go think they're frozen before I get to do it well I came back to Norman now

that was in January and I ended my season against happen here in Norman now what I had in mind I knew that I was going to be super criticized the way I was going to play this last game and been announced Mr. Abbott but I wanted to focus a national tension on it because this was my livelihood and if a person doesn't fight for what he think is right for his sports he's in bad shape I'd be just like a few in there playing a game of snooker and the seven balls fixed roll the pocket the beach and you put your hand across and said oh do bad let wasn't tittle it makes well anyway I wrote a letter to every major coach in the conference and I received a letter back at 97% of the coaches in America college coaches were opposed we call that gold tendon in other words the defensive man was allowed at that time to touch the ball on his downward flight

to the basket even in even over the basket so 3% were in favor of it and that 3% were men or coaches and that boys were seven feet now you're going to dig you were asking me for me to go on into the story of how we got it outlawed on the golden tinnitus all Harold Keith are a publicist at one of the finest sports riders in America I asked him I said Harold will you go to the story for me I've got all the food for you know he said well what do we call to us in 7th of April he knocked it out to make a long story short and I said we'll pay some more money for the story and he sent 70 you post and I said let's mail it to me mail an aerial special in two days we've got the longest colonic segment it gave us a top prize for it and it was going to it was scheduled to come out on Monday and I was to play in him and the old in our theme house here and following Saturday well it came out and

Crone's picture was on the outside cover of Saturday evening closes at 7 o'clock on the trucks delivered to magazine back in that those days they had a big picture of Crone on the trucks now in preparation this game here was mine here was one I was going to do I had to focus attention on it and I felt like it I could win the game well I had moral nickens who was read in an end I had him practice all week walking on duck legs that's that's short stills strap his legs and then I had a special sweatsuit he was going to lead my team on the floor and he was going to be 7 feet tall this exactly like Crone and he was standing in the middle of the court after he led the team on and just watch the NM warm up and cycle the genital dick so and then he was to sit on the band checker was starting to game well now I locked up the gymnasium and I told my players and I said no we've got a chance

to win this game told me what was going to do and I said I don't even watch your roommate to know how we're playing no one's going to watch his practice well our our theme was this when we got the ball we would walk down court and I wanted to have the ball 80% of the playing time we'd walked down the court with the ball and we would shoot on the 17 pass now college boys are supposed to count to 17 but just to make sure nobody screwed up why I had to alley pain on the wall of their guard and bounce the ball on the 15 pass so that everybody be synchronized because only one man was going to do the shooting for us and I was kind of proud I did the outside shot so on the 17 pass passing slow so slow that and then with his own defense we're moving rather slowly by the time we hit the 17 pass now right under the goal curling was

so parked and we had a little boy but they would jack land sick football that he as soon as the ball hit priors hand on the 17 pass he would step real close to curling and put an elbow not hard but snugly in his midsection and instead in the film I noted that curling couldn't jump if somebody was had your elbow in his midsection and I wonder if he just had it there anyway at the end of the first half we had shot three times and we had 7000 people in this field house that received that and we walked off at the court and we were leading six to four my gamble was when in him had the ball I started to four-string center against curling and we wanted to send him to the line so we just undressed him we wouldn't let him shoot and he went to the line and he was hitting 40% of his shots and

we figured that we could cut that down to about 30 and then I was gambling that I above wouldn't take the free throws but he had an option in those days they could take the ball out of bounds first half he took all of his free throws and I found out three men given those points and if they had missed it we'd take the ball on down to make a long story short I forgot to tell you on on the top of each goal we had a platform bill now get a little to this day on top of the platform was a chairman of the National Rooms Committee of the United States and Canada late Mr. St. Clair from SMU and he was seated in a chair all during the game looking down at Bob Curl's goal technique and he wanted to observe the equals of goal tending so he could take his findings back to the National Joint Rooms Committee of the United States and Canada but was to make more comment to the new papers well they finally got one point

ahead of me in the last two minutes of the game then I had to throw away my 17 passes and get the ball up there and during the last three minutes he took five of them shots out of the ball so now I was criticized very severely in the open city papers well everywhere for that better but it really didn't bother me at all because I knew it was that game that was going to outlaw a bad thing for my profession which was goal tending so I went back to New York and the goal tending was outlaw as a result of that one game with Bob Curl and Bob to this day is a great friend of mine he's in the National Basketball Hall of Fame and he ever spring when we all go back to the enshrined uncertainties in Springfield where we have a jam session and we always get around to that game where we had to ban on top of the goal so that's the way that the rules were

chained to eliminate the big man from taking the ball out of the basket but it was almost down with quite a few people. Do you think that was the best thing to do? Yes but we're in the bad we're in a bad position right now internationally and in Melbourne Australia we frame some rules where it's made it illegal for an offensive player to take a pass on above the level of the basket in the lane. I know that was changed down there for the several reason that we used that when I had KC Jones and Bill Russell on our left in 1956 if KC Jones pulling up to a certain spot on the floor and stopped Russell knew that he's going to shoot the ball about a foot to the left of the basket. The lane was a passenger Russell he had grabbed the ball and he heard and

stuffed it in there. After they saw that performance were nine games and closest anyone came to us from 30 points that would rush into the finals and decided that would be very good for introducing the basketball so that I'm the outboard. An offensive player taking the ball within the lane above the level of the basket. Now I think we've got to end a very near future. I think you want to see this change on the offensive end of the court. When the ball is shot at the basket I can see it in a very near future. An offensive team getting the ball off the basket will have to pass the ball out to the free throw non-extended group where they can go back into the basket to eliminate these cheap tip end baskets because there's no there's no skill in it. It's just it's just night and night the ball and I've always been a little man always will. I always like to ask myself if the bar was six feet tall could he make the ball but the entries no good

won't make it a six feet tall. Well maybe could we'll make it? No there's no way he can make it. He had 42 consecutive field goals. A little man said he said he was a great shot. I said no he stays. So what do you mean? Well he's only getting 40% of the three throws. How can he be a great shot? He had 43 straight field goals. They're all dumps. He didn't earn any up. So I want to see basketball get back where it's supposed to be and we've we've had 13 foot baskets on experiment basis. That's not an answer. And we've got to be realistic because we're not enough big man to go around and it's supposed to be a skill game and hope it'll get that way. And I look for in the next few years the deck I see him make it really good for a man to tip the ball in. So that if you've got a little man like a pretty big a guerrilla or great players like that where they're going to take them in the hole anyway. On a one-on-one and the pros

are going to tell you what kind of defense you're going to use which I'm opposed to because of the separation of the old man. It's not allowed to play in that city. He gets an old game 5 foot 10 a great ball player. So they'll get a big guard and put it no only going to take them in the hole. He's got to come out because he can't handle it when they can let him play a zone defense. Let the team play a zone or a man and a man that he can play. He could play because you could zone and protect the little man and that's what the people coming out to see. So I live for a drastic change and right now the way we're going was something's done. I don't know why I shouldn't worry about it but you know you've seen this all your life and you've charred your losing face so you see it hit the rock and you want to do something about it and the guys say well what do you care you through but you know you see a great game that you see it going through rocks going to crash and we're seeing a lot of that right now. You know we're seeing

this fight and everything else. 5,000 of them are fine when one of our uses ill bowl and fighting for position and a side. We're getting away from the fight because of the game. I mean particularly the big players that are dominating that they've underneath the baskets. Concerning the direct shuffle how did that come about? Well uh dick I was always a nut on on movement on the floor of players and uh since I had to play the best defensive coach in America Hank Iby each year there was always that sloughing off on the weak side away from the ball in other words if we're on the left side operating to run a play on the right side it'd be a

slough off in there. Well anyway I finally got finally got financial secure enough to let me have an assistant basketball coach and I brought a boy in by the name of Jerome Needy who played for McDermott here in 1936 and I brought him in from my assistant and when I got him I said I want you to go to work on a five-man offensive will work equally well against a man-to-man pressing man-man's own defense any kind of defense I want to overload it all on one side with except one man so to make a long story short he worked on that for three years and in the three years he broke me his dissertation and incidentally a dick he's he's retired this year he's a PhD and professor out to Secretary of State and is the authority on environmental in AZ on environmental this expert of the United States and doing a lot of serving for the government

and he's a very thorough man so he went to work on it in the three years he brought me this dissertation typed up as I had about 150 sheets in it he said well here it is well I took that and studied it for about three weeks and I never shall forget on page 46 I got an idea and dick as I was telling you it's kind of like the idea that rock he got when he was in Madison Square when he was in New York City and he saw the Rockets dancing and the precision kicking all together and so forth he conceived the idea of the Notre Dame shift or he they call it the Rockets shift well on page 46 of this dissertation of my assistant coach I saw something and I got an idea so I tore this sheet of paper out and after I studied that his three years of experimentation for about I guess it was a month but that one page I got the idea for the shuffle so I started

kicking around after about a month I had the offense worked out and so I asked my assistant coach Chuck in the idea if he could go out dinner with that night and he was seated next to me in there and I had his book he had all typed up and I threw it in the waist basket and I said your time was well spent and he liked that he said hey what are you doing that's four years of work I said yeah no let's eat tonight so after we got through eating he was still a little perturb because I threw his research in the waist basket and I said your time was well spent because I got an idea I said look at page I think it was 46 day I said look at this I said you see that here's what I've done with that initial movement and I unveiled an offense I said no now this is the most revolutionary offense has ever been devised you can freelancers still be

in a set pattern and we're going to use it so we used it and it was very successful with it and I remember the first team we played we played the University of Minnesota with it and went in for 17 unguarded layups and Aussie cows the coach at that time he wanted to see the film of course I wouldn't let him see it because we spent too much time and effort to put the thing together and I took it to the big eight tournament and coaches up there they started hooded on me to see what we were doing they couldn't figure it out so I was scouted I took it in the Madison Square Garden first time I used it there it was against CCNY who won the NCAA ending in 19 that year and years after that game we beat him in Madison Square when they scout me against

University of Illinois and scout told me last summer that when he scouted me up there he went back and told Matt Holman that all of his doing was freelancing say it would be to Madison Square Garden so it was great offense it was something new and it's been used all over the world you know it's kind of like it's kind of like the old T-Formation non-fero invented it but Wilkerson made it famous say so there's a lot of teams that using it and it's a contribution that I'm proud of when they talk about the Shuffle or something that happened here in Norland was trucking it in Bruce Drake and it makes me feel pretty good you know that there's something you know I left the big track you know there where it came from but it's a it's a good offense. 1947 and 10. Yes that was that was a very

my team I had all the old horses back I had the Gerald Tucker Wall-American Center he'd just come back and service all the paintings all American guard were the two and then I had Nick Reich and Paul 40 the service and all those boys were in the service and they came back and it was a look back and you always look back over the station I didn't bring them along as fast as I should have early in the season but by the by the middle of February we rolled up and we had a we had a great ball we played a great Oregon Oregon state team and it can't sit in all the newspapers gave us no chance at all to win and we went ahead we won that one and we played Texas and there's no way that we

could be Texas according to sport runners because they had not lost a game over here and my very good friend Jack Gray was a coach down there and that was a that was a game that Kenny prior we were one point behind with 15 seconds to go when I put prior in and I knew he could go anywhere he wanted to on the dribble and I knew that Gerald Tucker would be covered our all American center because then prior had a had a deathly jump bank shots and so we were to gang up on that side if he banked we knew where he's rebound would come if he missed and that was a game that he pumped it up there with the gun and went in we we go and we plan to finally invest in our garden

against what we cross and we got beat that day home that team speed beat me they had a great hard cruising leader also something started the dynasty red armor and so at 47 was a great team and we had a we had a great reunion dick last year of all those old guys who came back and of course now you set around you listen to those guys and as you grow or dick you you have to stretch the imagination a little bit to convince the boys that you were as great as the paper said you were so so it was very gratifying to see the old boys I think the most gratifying thing a coach can ever have happened to him is to see the kind of citizens that your players are making the contribution they're making to this place what they live because they're they were able to give and take in and let a competition I think that's one of the great lessons that we as coaches

tried to teach these boys to be able to take a bit of his suite and and remember that that our great creator didn't create a superior class an ignorant class and an intelligent class you know he made us all like it's up to the individual it's up to us his coaches to instill that that the opportunities are for all of us if we'll if we'll extend a little love to our fellow man and when we've got something to do I do it and and you know go just as hard as you can of course I used to always like to quote the Bible when I haven't had a very good season you know you get up on the podium you're talking these little rabbit alumni you know and maybe you're talking to high school where one of the boys could quite cut the mustard you know and you tell me you know well my job would be a lot more enjoyable if you if you church school and people would read the

scripture or more because it's said in the scriptures no you're not they who run run off but only one received at the prize so that always helps when you had a bad season but not when you look back over over your basketball career and your coaching career there's so many wonderful things that happen not only to me and my family but also those wonderful kids that sacrificed so much during those old days where you had no scholarships to get an education and seem to make great contributions and see a man like Vic Holt and played for the German with no family ties go all the way to the president the president of Good Your Time rubber company we see another kid that played for the German also I Scott I mean Bill Martin present of Philip the Trojan that's about as high as you go so they got something from that little

round ball game down here at the University of Oklahoma which we're all very proud of in 1947 once again and that was one of the two times Vic that I've been coaching that uh it's just like somebody tapped me on the shoulder and said put so and so in and it happened once and I put a boy in and that was it and he made the winning basket against the University of Missouri and believe it or not that was it only basket he scored his freshman year but I can I can remember that like it was yesterday just like somebody and he could on this special play that we ran he could do it as good as anybody if I could do it a little better if something said put Bill Bentley in and all during the war he kept writing me he said why did you put me in I can't answer that and uh well you can too because as a little man upstairs it kind

of tapped me on the shoulder I know that but it's pretty hard to convince some of these kids that that would happen and happen again in Kansas City it can't be prior that the one to hit the winning basket that was the only basket he got dick at night and it was so clear to me that he was a one when when when when Texas scored that last basket put a one point ahead with 16 seconds I think it was 16 seconds to go well I took a time out and there was a prior aesthetic over there and I sent him in and he shoots ones makes a basket and those things happen it not only to me but I've talked a lot of coaches it's happened to them and uh so there's a lot of things that people see unless they're real close to it they really don't know exactly what's happening now you see the fellowship of Christian athletes there's some great things

that's happening in sports now like uh some of the Olympic champions the uh one one a guy gets the gold medal around it you're in a foreign country they split they play the national anthem more or less if you think tears don't come into your eye and you're down under saying Melbourne Australia you got another thought coming then you then then you get a close-up and here's a guy interviewing again well first I want to thank God and that is the thing that's so gratifying because there's so many things in life that that we've got to give credit for little man upstairs because things happen and if we rely on that help it's kind of like the huddles that you get out there you know some coaches say now look I don't care whether you're Baptist or Presbyterian Catholic or what but before every game we're going to have a little sound prayer and just be thankful

that we're able to express those things that God gave us and that's the name of the game and that is happening so much and it's so gratifying when you hear a voice like that we've got it here on the OU football game and the basketball game it's great and that's what makes it all worthwhile because no matter what sport we're in or no matter what we're doing we've got to realize it we've got somebody up there that's either slamming a door in our face and we're trying to get through and it'll never open but another will open if we don't get too disappointed things always happen to the best and that's a way that's what life is all about so those are the lessons that we try to teach in basketball and football and track and so forth and I think we're going to a period now we hear a lot of bad things is happening but there's a lot of good things happening and it's in sports where you've got to take a bit of a sweet and there's some great lessons for us all to learn not only participating in but also

watching sports or broadcasting sports because we see it we feel so that's why it's been so so much fun for me to take part in coaching so many sports and to come back later and see the boys that you've produced and see that 99% have turned out real good human beings and one one thing too I want to say I used to get a big kick out of some of the props that were close friends of mine and it always jump on the football coach for making too much money he said he's making too much money to present so forth so I always ask him this I said do you like it here in Norman he's always so sure I like it well I said you're going to raise your family here he's so sure when I said this poor guy if he don't win they're going to fire him he wants to live here in Norman but he can't do it how long do you think he'll stay here one year two year three year four year five maybe ten he's got to make it now and I said another thing I've had a class under you

and I've heard you lecture how long do you think you could last if you had elected before 71,000 people well I'll tell you how long you last one lecture now when you get off my back you know though that's always a lot of fun you know and that goes with the with with the game so there's so many good things that can happen so many things that we say athletics will do to kid and the best way we can prove it is to take a kid 10 years out of college that he's participated in the intercollegiate athletics or interscalanced together I guess 10 at random and I'll take the athletes every time just just the way they come out and because they're able to adjust to adversity they can take a bit of it with the suite and they know that when they when they reach perfection that when they're up on top wearing the crown they're

going to meet the same guys that they pass coming down as they're going up so it's all worthwhile and I think I think young students now they've got you hear a lot of bickering in that but we are having traveled all over the world the most gratifying thing when you get back the stage is the ability to anyone to express himself but while we're expressing we want to be sure that we're here in both sides of whatever we're talking about and then we're in pretty good shape you had six championship teams who for a second on the fog out of the window and then you had four straight years that were 700 years well now my my last year is dick I don't really care to get into that too much because it was a misunderstanding from the administration from the athletic director on down and they cut my scholarships down to one and I didn't have my

heart in it and that's the year that I gave a coaching golf gave a coaching swimming and quit running the public congress system and couldn't go again so I read it didn't have my heart in so I called it quits after those two years and then after I left the university I was very forced and General Rosie O'Donnell called me from Washington DC because of the relationship with him I spoke in the rural wide air force 5 foot 1 night and he liked what he heard and what made him coach here for his day in preparation for the 56 Olympics and my objective was to win the air force and turn it and that would qualify me for the playoffs so he flew me up the Washington and I took the job and went up the bunker hill with my family here and on and won the armed forces championship

and then that could be the end of the playoffs for the to see four teams are going to play to see who's going to get the coach in the Olympic team and in the Olympic playoffs and the teams are there was Philip 66 coach Pedro Tucker who was the fall American center for being and then there's a Seattle view cans they were in a a you club and then the college all stars which was the University of San Francisco Bill Russell Casey Jones and that bunch and the armed forces well the way the tournament was run day keep took you play everybody played each other and if you beat a team 10 points they're a minus 10 and you're you're a plus 10 and the team it comes out with the greatest number pluses he the coach of that he is the Olympic coach so I drew Philip 66 at AAU champions in my first round and beat him by six so I'm a plus six and a minus six then we played the college

all stars Bill Russell come in there's nowhere to stop Bill we got being so I going to the last game I'm a minus three and in the in the game that I played the college all stars Philip 66 played the other AAU club now the AAU had a real good deal going because if either one up has a chance to be the top plus the other is going to lay down so that's exactly what happened Philip speed this team 38 points so when I played this Seattle bunch there's no way that I could win by 38 so Gerald Tucker my all American center two years one and forty and ninety four two and the other in 47 48 season he was a hit coach and I was a successful so I coached that team armed forces and then I coached the Olympic team and 19 games without a loss and then I coached one year AAU

with vickers petroleum against Phillips 66 and decent truckers and both so those are the three teams that I coached after I left here and I came back I got in a real estate development business and quit a bunch of years ago go to the fishing and golf and then put on some clinics all over the world and enjoying yourself and hope that this wins it all this year wish you were very active as an official committee coach player you named it in the years that you've been associated with basketball good or bad what would you say two or three major changes in basketball big changes that notice over a period of time or even that days but not now well back in the old days after your fulfill goal to bring the ball back to the center and you'd throw it up between the center and you'd get the tip saying well take good coach

as long to find out if you didn't have a tall man and no way you'd win so the one enough big man to go around so they'll eliminate that and back in the old days you had one man on the team and shoot all the fixtures you shoot him all you'd foul he go up shoot the free throw those were some of the major things and of course goal tenning is that one over on the buck growing deal that was how long that was a major change at the time but there was an evolution of big men coming up and these teams that were winning the national championship always had to go on over there so the high school players high school coaches were grooming these kids but the most all kinds of weight exercises building up their legs so we the big boys started coming up real fast and biggest change in course we were eliminated in the old ending and we also put the 30 second on the table with the 10 second quarter which was a major deal that would prohibit a team from

setting on the ball and back quarter say come get me say 30 second shot was using a lot of contrast we were not using it in the big A I think it's got to come because we invented a game here in the United States but we're the only nation in the world is not using a clock so that puts the disadvantage when we can play international ball wouldn't it play any new ones so those are some of the major changes now the international rules are not anything like the American rules of the play and the I can see a lot of changes are going to be made see if the dunk shot was just put back in now this last year college boys could dunk them a few years ago they let them dunk them once and one time and then they could you break them so many baskets inside it but nobody's allowed to dunk them and we start the game with

that cut down on the percentage of baskets that were broken and I'm not letting them dunk before the game so dunking the ball that could have been legal years ago and it was used by the cold year at Oklahoma in 1928 they I know a lot of times when I was playing guard not let go along with it and it's going through just a netter you know string music I see a big hand go over the basket and palm the ball and turn it over drop it in there and since I room with that cold I looked at the paper next morning I said hey they're comfortable to have six baskets I've only got four he said well you remember those two in the first half need a little help so he stuck his hand in there and turned it over and dunked it well you didn't see that early in basket ball because it was unheard of and of course when the inventors game naysmith up at the Springfield Massachusetts he just nailed a peach basket on the running track and he happened to measure it

and that was 10 feet tall that's why the basket are reasonably wet and I go back every year and I see that fact I thought of there one year on the same court that they had the first the peach basket and a lot of that was naysmith they didn't invent the game big he just he had these Husky football players and all he's trying to do is give him a little game they could play between baseball and football so we've seen a lot of changes and major changes and we're going to see a lot more and I think the first one we're going to see is illegal to give the ball in after a miss shot and I would like to see like they did in the ABA I'd like to see the three point make basket bring back the two handed center field where you set back on it like they don't usually hear it Oklahoma like Washington like Joe Bradley did from Washington crack he used

to get a central line letter go and he hit what takes real skill like we give three points or four but give him some to put the little man back in but eliminate cheap baskets now we've got to equalize the game and give it to the mass instead of the few and we're paying too much money for athletes now and the taller they are the more money they're making like baseball and a baseball and football you name it tennis it's a pedophile so we're going to see they're going to see a lot of changes not so many major changes is we are those little ones that will equalize the game from from the few to the mass and we're getting all of the worry last summer I was at Greece to show you how rapidly spreading and I'll stay there for a month and I saw 65,000 people out to one ball game I've never seen that in states and that was in the original at the stadium where's what the Greeks would like to do and they're getting ready for they would like

and they're going to meet this summer they would like to have Greece where the original let the game started they'd like to have that as a permanent stadium they have the let the games in each year and I think of all the years we've had I think most crucial years going to be next year and I hope the athletes of the world remember that you've got to think that it was sweet and whether you win or lose when it's all over you hit the tape or the gun sounds all over did you see a lot of love expressed between the athletes because the the presence can't get the job done maybe the athletes can let's well it's really good remember my first year I learned the lesson a bit away I've been running first string

and uh we started our first game in the old armory over there and it was against the national AAU champions and on this team we had the great my idol when I was growing up the great forest deepen art red-headed all-american that played with the hillyards company and when I was a kid growing up the hillyards company came to Oklahoma City and played again and uh the gang that I played with we didn't have enough money to get in but we had a we had no moral only on a door the rear door that let us in with all basketball games and demon already had a knee pad that hinge drive below his knee and when he'd run it would flap way down on his knee back up and they're just fascinating just so after the game is over we went to the dressing room to get his autograph and I talked

him out of one of those knee pads now the reason I talked him out of that we had a goal in our back yard in Oklahoma City and we'd have turns wearing that knee pad and we idolized demon already and everything he'd do with copy his pivots his fakes and everything else well here we're getting ready to open my first college game against the great hillyards against my idol forest demon already so I'm playing in practice and I'm running first grade but when it's starting to game I'm on the sidelines and I just killed him so uh they're leading us by eight or nine points and look German he told me to go in and guard demon already well to make a long story short we won that game and uh we beat down and then right after that the next game came along so I knew I was

going to start the next game just new and I had a lesson to learn and I can look back and see it down in the sculpture which is right as he could be but he didn't start me he didn't start me the next game and I was so mad dick when he sent me in I could play pretty rough and I made two of the most flavoring files that you could and he jerked me out and I was mad so I just went on the dress room and dressed went home well I was a mistake dick so all the guys said wait the sculpture gets hold of you well what the sculpture can do when he gets hold of you he'll grab me by the lobe of the ear or by your hair and I had a real tender head of hair so he'd always grab me with the hair when he was talking to me then he started walking pulling your hair and kicking you on the shin at the same time so the boy said well I tell you what you better not show up if you do you better wear a helmet because the old sculpture can really get on you but sure

enough he he he said what kind of an exhibition was that killed somebody and grabbed him with the hair and started to talk to me kicking me on the shin of course in the background I could see the guys you know going yee yee yee yee you know that's good so I learned the lesson now modern was a very faint coach he had a great fast break and he was tough we were all in great shape and we had a lot of fun playing and I know that those last two years we were undefeated in two years and I know we had a national championship on my junior year we didn't want it all because nobody could touch us I know that we just opened it we could have gotten stretch merby and produced the play a set here but discussion was a great disciplinarian and we were in excellent shape and we just moved down there we had we had a couple of squeakers one point game but we had a funny thing and we talked about that team now

on personnel you know right now we see a specialization and a football player going out on school let me let me run over what we had on that basketball team we had had guard we had granny Norris who was an all-american tackling football and the left-fueler in baseball we had Ray Lecron he was a almost her valley in football and a forward basketball and trackman myself quarterback football team basketball captain of track team Tyler's Tom Churchill he was a all-state I mean he was a almost her valley in he played on her basketball team he made the decathlon team and track and the only one that was just a two-sport man was Vic Holt

now all the rest of you can imagine diversity of that bunch so they were great athletes and they could get along and they could dish it out so we had some real rough games particularly back in those days sometimes on the one official showed up and if you got a little rough with one official we got four football players in there but we put on the moon they'd got really rough city I remember Nick one time I thought it was kind of strange was playing Drake and years after this game was over I was talking to this official that worked again and he told me if I didn't happen before that he got their time mixed up and he and his buddy were at a bar and he was drunk and he's working the he's working the Drake game drunk and it was during that day game that that Dr. Four players came out with the mouth full of teeth in her hand and we didn't know we felt like that he was drunk but one official didn't show up and the reason why they got their dates mixed up and that was a roughest game I've

ever seen so the personnel we had on the Germnus team he was a great disciplinary and we'd run like my head and we had speed and we had rebound power so we had everything we had ruggedness we had deception so we had he had he he put together a team and nobody could touch and all the longer we get was and we didn't hit the way for some kind of a championship that leaves all we could do that was it when you were a little too here you had to pass the ball in the in the hearts of the people yes now I remember when I played when I was playing on the football team here at home coming out I think we had 12,000 now basketball came along the old field house it would only see 5,500 it was sell out every game until the athletic department decided that the students their season

ticket used to be good for football and basketball but during the verdict parts of the Wolkerson regime they decided it and severed that so the student tickets were just good for football well as a result of that severance of the stability of the you might say the gold standard the students couldn't unless they bought an extra ticket they couldn't come to basketball well the boy kind of basketball say so they quit coming for our temporarily for a little bit and then we got to win it and it's coming in but they were very reluctant to come back because they felt like it wasn't right so of course the things have changed since that time but it was it was given to go real tough going for a little while there but as far as support everything else we had 100

percent of support of town people you're an all over the state for that matter and no one there's only 5,000 seats in that thing they were always full of time and it was something to excuse me do you have a barber shop singing? oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh uh years ago years ago before in fact before I started coaching we had we had what we call the field house for and we thought we were pretty good until we had a recording made it if I wanted to I'll just like the gallant married hero there Harold Keith the great writer for that late department and Johnny Keith his boys took his place over there now

but he was our tenor and slaughtered lester our football coach was the baritone I was the lead and Jack Milton was dead now he could he could sing lean and I could hit bass but we had that in those four and uh but we thought we we'd go to the the national meetings and we were all members of the SPEBS QSA and we thought that was pretty smart to say that it was no one knew what it meant to say it we'd say what led us to society for the preservation and encouragement of barbershop singing of American Incorporated was that he helped you have and then you go very well at that time the they had the flat foot four from Tulsa or the national and I think everybody likes good quartet music and we had we had beat every week during all season we'd get in somebody's basement

and we'd sing and we had a little schedule you know we we'd book them for us something we sang it a few of funerals which is kind of sad but Christmas we'd we had a lot of fun and and then we just we finally found a boy that was a recording expert so we said hey we got a job for you so we took him in my basement and we got the atomizer spader throat we were really going to sound like sonopter so he said well what's your best one we sang it to him and he said I'll be great so we turned it on a little excited by some of the guys we're blaring out a little too strong when we got through we were fixing the kind of lean back in the chairs and the bass gun of the prosperity that the field house for was going to break to the coaches see

until we heard it and then it was so bad that we just knew it was the acoustics so the old boy that cut the record said now here I've got a record of a dinosaur let's let's turn it on and I'll record it see how it comes out so it came out curious a bell and somebody said well that's a woman's voice so we got sonopter and we ran his off and it came clear as a bell so we said well we'll give it one more stroke so we we did our very best and we sent back in that easy chair all right turn it on this and we listened to that thing and after it was over with I can still see it now they were sailing it all over the roof and it's an ordinary luster it's still got a copy of it and it's been happened to but that broke up the field house for but last week we had a reunion deck of that we went out here in the country and found out that

we had been terrible all these years but we thought it was pretty good but it was a lot of fun to get together and it's kind of like your semi clubs you know as they always say you show me a good civic club and it's single well I'll show you a good civic club so it's kind of like dick you get in the shard you sing it sound pretty good is it true? Chick-o-chta or playing on average championship team? yes Dick when Dermott had two championships and I played on those and the answer to your question is yes I did I don't think it's right I don't think it you know I don't I think 25 years is too long to go without winning the championship and I'll say this and I think we've got one of the

finest little young coaches here that we've had in a long time David Bliss and I think he's going to turn this thing around and it might be this year that I hope that I hope somebody else wins one of these things because he's turning around we've got we've got good boys we've got a great place to play and we've got a great support from the Tipin Club that's given you support and the Pom Pom girls a great place to play and this Bliss is a great kid from Indiana and he's doing a good job and it was a little patience I think he'll turn this thing around and I sure hope so and I think this this might be the season for