The Evolution of TV News, Part 2; Unknown

today on tape here presents the evolution of tv news with media strategist and executive at hers and emmy award winning television producer michael castillo i'm kate mcintyre it's that annual journalism and politics lecturer at the university of kansas dole institute of politics this event was held november thirteenth two thousand nineteen and was moderated by dole institute director bill lacy according to gallup though a public trust the mass media was it seventy two percent in nineteen seventy six and forty five percent now surprise is how how does that figure into television news and affect our television news decision makers that there's a good question oh oh i'll take credit for that obviously is this a polarization is right if if it if you're the lead the center you watch fox news and so like why i don't trust these guys are terrible if you you know even if you turn on

msnbc and you were to the right ear this is an entirely new york magazine that they were they they watched the night of fox and an end and the msnbc side by side and they said it was like two different universes they literally cover the same stories so that that erodes public trust and without being partisan here i think that that when there's when the media is constantly attacked as fake news or enemies of the people that certainly isn't as intimate as an impact i think and on public opinion but i think it gets back to your earlier pointed like singapore if there is very little common just like there's real common ground and our public this course there's real common ground on what we would agree the perfect newscast with that i see you seek out your only make iran newscast and you don't trust the other guy and then i think his is from george benjamin's know i think the screaming that turns a lot of people off and ultimately you know the mature

people that answer the surveys in other like news media and they're not done anything for me that a scream and you know and and maybe there's been in in the way that i want somewhere along the line they're uncomfortable i also think that there's been a strain in america is that that never never ever really trusted you know that that might just walter cronkite but ultimately you know the kids those new york liberals that are controlling things out on and i think there's a slight and this may be below the surface it was bubbling and finally came you know came it's fun to come to the surface but i don't think the networks help themselves by having shout fests just an end and stuff that isn't going anywhere it just i read it it can't be helpful to our pickup dialogue i think is a great i produce shows like that one of our shows and stuff but then it's it's like everything you know there's too much of it

gets its fine because like it's just to watch it which is also a slippery slope i think that gets an end and then self reflection right so you have msnbc which is kind of an opinion that workers example write any of nbc news which for the most part dress to do pretty straightforward to support but then the end of the nbc reporter goes on msnbc and does is our report and they said so what's your take on what's this are what's your sense of what's going on in the white house no no good reporters about their science it's about what they are it is it's it is it's what they hear what you think gets it when it goes on the reporting to the speculative i think for a lot of people that that crosses on aggressive and at those records you can see there a summer their anguish in is being asked to do that would train than being of being accurate and i think that's different you would never imagine walter cronkite saying to you know whether that would be alive two way with your bruce

morton in vietnam and saying so what's your take on what happened today it just wouldn't happen greg i have one final question and will open it up to cuban ay from the audience but we have quite a few young people here i'm guessing i'm guessing am asking we have a bunch of journalism majors here richard iii but we have a lot of young students are students who were not journalism but what advice would you give young people on two subjects one is how to you know kind of go through all those sources you guys have really outlined a tremendous volume of of sources of information available how would you suggest to them that they go about you know consuming news and then secondly if they are interested in a career in television news what we'd use it if ut and we bow to your

memoir you teach better students at the atlanta it i would say and even syrians the same advice i gave them my lessons of things worse mr rubin was we as a short course an eye on and i did say to them just to be a good god builds a lot but the more we were talking about seek out things that you wouldn't normally watch or c as television program aig executive right and those were to give a company you think i'd watched jersey shore know and you think i would watch florida mr schorr before the people think the jersey shore was too intellectual but i want it and but he may make some like pbs the night i won it says women that this is a popular this is a somewhat of a cultural phenomenon people are talking about it i should watch it to try to not to make fun of it but to try to understand why it's successful so

in much the same way ok even if you completely disagree with the economic is up with their voter to decide the republican view of a love of the beach then in the ukraine you know what i read read the editorial page of the wall street journal understand what other people are saying about you know i have to agree with something to learn about and i think that is to me that is the great developer curiosity about why things are the way they are what is what's what's behind it what's the behind the scenes story that's really what good journalism is and the second piece is so bad that the second word to get a job number one don't don't go in with a big dog one with big expectations go with great dreams but not expectations and writing writing writing right no one you have to learn to write well when your journalism or don't dance into a stream of

consciousness report as he could be and that that the qualities of good clear concise writing on deadline but i learned at a newspaper transferred would be that everything i did including being an executive and i had to do it and an hour to do a powerpoint to explain some complicated thing we were trying to do the ability to think and write clearly is a skill that will serve you know no matter what you do there and they get so true really is i learned that my best writing was that five minutes ago said before six o'clock when i haven't used it it's it's amazing you can do up the other thing is is that good writing covers a multitude of sins is if you can write well it will help you in all your other courses at the scene as well i want to be the thing i would say that both in terms of current studies and getting a job is at this point in your life as a student this will be the only time in your life that you get to think about things like ethics

like tom what's the right thing to do of the bigger picture because what you're in the business the matter what angle is when he worked for buzzfeed or the new york times you know your throne and then you just have to do it if you have a sense of right and wrong and what where you want to go and a even if unfortunately you know you're going out to do some things a hero level really like about alisa you know that they're not right you need to this is the only time in your life now you may think not really wanna get to the editing room so i can edit it is alive where you you did together is your life which you need to do is figure out what is it that you're going to do that is going to and vance that particular story for that particular issue that you're working on i am an open ended this the year you have you have time to think now and once you get in the world you know i i was the joke in a newsroom of our motto was another good story killed by over checking who has a job

but you know you don't really you know you don't have time or sometimes you get you know an end it's like when you get to real life you know she said that i don't have that said i was taught by am and graduate school by a guy that had players who were he wrote for walter cronkite and he was older and he wrote for edward r morrow you home and number and said he was thinking of writing you know in terms of good writing in and that that and good writing isn't just that writing that's good thinking because sometimes it's not the actual writing it's the putting together what's really important and good storytelling and good storytelling will make for good report and will make the world a better place and i live with documentaries now onboard and that documentaries and the ones that have the best stories are the ones that usually take you to a place that you haven't been and make you you know to go on a journey so and i work at national geographic which literally of on our journeys you know for these two documentaries and so that there are places where you can apply your craft but

more important is you've got to know what's right a great quote to summarize what that that the summer's one of the points that might be the aisles and i imagine that i have and the work of fred friendly and he exhorted the students the same thing that this is your opportunity to really he says you get ticketed to i developed a belief of what's right and wrong because there's so many ways in this book look at this look at that where journalists are in the pantheon download of trust and he said there's going to come a time in your career when you're all alone in the editing room are at that typewriter no terminal and i enjoy your writing i'll fix this shot for all users shot the different sound bite or you know all fighters for and who know and he would stop in this big thunderous voice is that when that happens you stop and go i know that's who want

an end in other which you know that's you know you it's a matter of conscience and a matter of commitment so i think that the military ok i will open it up to question from the audience i especially wanted some questions from our young people are mostly in the back of the room that if you have a question please raise your hand look at that one right here i had my time newspapers and news people like to use polls and polling how can you possibly get accurate results on a pole when so many enlightened people don't answer their phones and they don't know who's calling a big issue that's a big issue right now because it's tough to get accurate polls in the last presidential election on me improve it was you know the polls were wrong big league the pollsters and i'm not an expert on this but they are looking for ways to get to people both by phone or go

online and you know we're getting a bigger sample size you know they're looking for ways to correct that for one reason that the candidates in the case of a judge but also the eu ever else uses those this year with its advertisers they want accurate information so that they're looking for new ways i don't know what those ways are but i that and withdrawal remarkable they're trying some new device that you know you either go online or two to to find cell phones or cell phones and others and not listed another that they have they're looking for ways it's it's a huge issue right now and i wish i have an answer but i totally know it you're here is that pollsters were here they would think they can expand on how difficult is these days because of that and and young people go into the polls as reggie robocalls and nobody having landmines and who actually answers the phone when you don't recognize the number so it's a it's it's it's deftly invent an issue for pollsters and

you know why they got so burned in the twenty sixteen election with their polling that now it's you know that they're there they're hoping to never get fooled again at a question how does the death of local newspapers of fact local politics in the way that sometimes in some cities or counties local news stations are all its left reporting on what the mayor does with the city commissioner decides on i'm crying like religious about that if i were doing a masters thesis or doctored i would use china do the research because they're you know that that as good as local tv and radio is they're not going to be as comprehensive as even the most middling newspaper on the tv and the only way of hope is on his npr where like stations are out there they're actually growing in terms of their news audience and their news and what i guess they would know better but that they're you know that the stations are

building is the province that do cover these things and to cover local local those are but the death of newspapers i think it's serious because they don't have it which is bad enough but the truth is in ed knows this is that the local tv station's depended on the newspaper's to continue to do their you know to do just to steer them i mean it's it was when i got into business i was like wow you mean you know you you cut meat literally steal it from you know or if it was in there was a you know that was in the new york times that it was okay to cover it over was in the local paper was ok to cover like wine that story five days ago that you know it wasn't enough to cover the newspapers carried out the window they were always good and there were a lot of a lot of problems and they have biases themselves and sometimes it wasn't accurate but they add their detail and we don't have that detail and that's really that's really important

than they were on average they don't provide accountability anymore right you didn't baby if you think about your late there's this big expression are right that the places that don't have fresh food or food stores or call you a food desert areas of cities well their news deserts write newspaper causes long ago the local station is owned by you guys know news is running all syndicated programming reporters the local radio station maybe if they're lucky there's an npr station nearby the tv station in the song it would maybe in the nearest big city of maybe there's a you know up to seven car pile up though send a reporter to that dam or murder but the general political coverage of the attacks is the school's levy the the issues of income inequality or or other political flashpoint now literally don't get covered anymore and therefore when you talk about it or accountability and transparency in government knows what's in the store now i mean i

was a king a political debates in philadelphia and i put together the dates from pennsylvania new jersey and delaware and dumb and you know from our station and luckily the station devoted a lot of airtime to local issues and stuff i don't think that station does have an enormous vases don't don't really do that i cover the legislature i was in delaware cover and the state legislature's is it's a hotbed of unbelievable stories both good in there and it didn't occur to us is like you knew mentally what goes on there and so it's fairly consistent fascinating to me both in a good way and sometimes it that way but like when this in all this great stuff and censorship everywhere question right over here so you can talk a little bit about those like ethical dilemmas and as a young reporter i am i feel that there's a sort of disconnect between being taught is ethical journalism and also kind of arriving in a world where like ratings are playing is very sort of like ethical dilemma that maybe you faced

in this river barges like an example lavoy you know all the time i am i am i am i started work at a public tv station and so you know they they were less concerned about ratings and then i went to work for the station that as like the highest ratings in the free world and and it was it's a terrific station they did all this other programming but the abbas it down and now me it really on i'm like well you know i got my graduate degree and work of opinions and he says voters don't forget one thing a center with us so this is a business to business where make money but all that said no no journalism know what were birds they know their break this big thing you really sure where you're would do that too but of the way or where where make money in an accident and now what within that structure that guy had a choice you know i could

stay with my going to quit at age twenty two you know i know that this is not the statement so you know what can you do a good job with in that setting and the answer yes i do really enjoy you know i did i was real proud of the work that i did the end amazon cited political debates in or you know award winning news pieces and magazine things in and it was but it was a sobering moment and if youre asking was a specific story of kind of thing i'm sure there was something specific like where i had to i'll think about that is it's probably embarrassing and i've tried to race at the moment i was that i was lucky you know really but we were there was a business very often i always was lucky that i had i think i work for people to sort of felt the same way and yes while they'd be a little more tabloid ii and universities is a local news show coming up your sweatshirt could kill you you know

that that that you know what the basic that was sort of the promotion around it the actual there really was a sense that he had to get it right now in just a really much later in my career i was a an executive at a map or some you may remember doesn't exist anymore court tv and it was becoming and then i was or the architect of their server documentary true crime programming which is also a fact based in journalistic and produced for us by nbc news and cbs news and other producers ann it became it was purchased by the beverage bridge by time warner and it was they were decided they're going to turn it into a reality show that were true tv and i remember saying i sat in that entered the realm of the eu with the new boss and out they showed a clip this is going to be our new series and it looked like a documentary thing and i realized the women at this can't be real because it was about a

repo man repossessing cars and he would never be allowed on public property of private property if this were real shot was obviously stage so i said recently iran was this gray and i said women this is a real authentic and the head of the network of the revenue and the network said this is it he said you're not an abc news anymore pal is what you send them ed and i decided to leave because i just basically said i'm at you know why i can't this is not why i am and one of the great great another great quote somebody said the side go to work as a journalist you have to go to work everyday prepared to quit and started china right so i thought was imminent ok i saw handbags here we have one back here to have one right here kind of the revolution has occurred in late night tv we had some

comedians becoming news commentators such as travis smiley and was even called their and jon stewart and then we had some longtime serious commentators careers wiped out within forty eight hours under the er me to a situation such as our that is not a smile and charlie rose and artillery dr doris interior even and then suddenly i'm in moore and company came on and they seem to be doing a very good job with world news on what he wants your thoughts on late night right now he adds interesting phenomenon that gave the comedy world which show the comedy news world which i can say don't know how that became such a lucrative franchise that you have five six seven different people doing jokes about

today you know good jokes about the news i think is that there is a younger generation that is interested in in learned in that way and i think the comedy central you know if you think about cole bears original show how many shows did interview do do interviews with actual authors write he wouldn't book authors prominent and jon stewart so in many ways was an alternate way of getting news i went to an event at a dove awards thing a witch jon stewart was getting an award and brian williams was introducing and brian way in joke or citizens of the very funny whether or not they jon stewart gets up and says is this crazy world we live in and he says he says a guy who uses primaries as a guy who is supposed to deliver the news that he's a comedian and i got is a drum is taken seriously about the things is about delivering the news but but i think that

you know again there's an appetite for people to somehow it's this affinity group thing right you know that it's an outlet for people to go to to sort of entered the third through two they don't understand what's going on the world and so it's very very like it is a source of news of the weird wares yes of information i just delivered in a different way the comedians roll these days is pretty interesting because they're in general are just late night i think in general they're delivering babies always been this what they think they're delivering they're there they're giving you information that you might wanna know i just don't think it's it's an excellent question and there and right here thank you maybe i should masses question that i'm in is a highlight which programs do you watch at night which ones and which ones do you watch your ds and no one i watch them i want cnbc out it isn't it my marketing comes on it just the right time that nightly news you know because i liked fact some like

you know the the old school i read several newspapers and dumb it's funny the morning show's driving crazy i can't do it because there are it's just too much in the kitchen or whatever ii a proposal once a national geographic to do like an like an npr style morning show because the morning shows that's a show other than the first half hour i can't i can't stand of night and they're fine people are really know some of them but it's not it's not new so anyway so what's an nbc nightly news i watch the late night his late local news i've watched cnn a lot of it and i'm like eh like its thing i always try to sample us whatever else is going on like especially if i if i hadn't seen caldera or sent samantha bee you know really know that they tried but not a regular consumer obama from professionals

ages from an information standpoint what's the prime wage of them going to come a long way as i like his his panel you know and he has similar you know i was on bill o'reilly by the way i was interviewed by bill o'reilly and survived but did you get the seine you were interrupted and interrupt him i think for me it's a very similarly i'm old school enough to wanna watch the evening news and sixty hours of china wants to keep sometimes what's a pbs newshour because pbs as one of my clients for my consulting business so i was like this a chicken coop that i also watch bbc world news the channel because it's fascinating some days you were so focused on domestic me as an inside the beltway you watch that and you know there are good stories you should know about and they do such a great job of covering it i i do sample their cable shout fests are leading again to see what they're talking about

sometimes of the front line is you know was always is doing something interesting and again i try i say it i can think of that as my tasting menu write it either the things i want all the time and then things i like to try to see almond and the brian williams of those are serious journalism when i do you know he's going to make richardson's records he could be in love with the sound of his own voice sometimes but at the same time that program brings on usually the people with the journalists the print journalists who are writing the big stories of the day the washington bureau chief of the usa today washington post a new york times political and various phases of the awesome images in perspective on not just what they reported on what sort of the stuff i love which is the how i got that story is a story and then two i think as i like to say well what's the context you know as has happened before is another joe mcquaid you please join me in a piece you just heard television producer michael

castillo and media executive and strategist fred hersch they spoke of the dole institute of politics journalism and politics lecturer at the university of kansas on november thirteenth two thousand nineteen this event was moderated by dole institute director bill lacy and kate mcintyre kbr prisons is a production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas tonight's event and isn't over yet when it's your turn to get vaccinated playing in their will get through this together