Black Men: Uncertain Futures

On that Harrington We invite your response to the program we've just seen for the next hour we'll talk about the documentary some of the issues it raised and try to chart some solutions. What do you think we can do to help solve the problem. We have a panel of distinguished guests here in the studio and I'll introduce them to you in a few seconds but first the phone number for you to call the comment on the program and to participate in our dialogue is 1 800 to 2 to 1 to 9 to that number again is 1 800 2 2 2 1 2 9 2. What we're waiting for your response to coming let's get some reaction from our panelists. So with that John Smith is the president of Maxim corporation. There's a lot of frustration some anger. In that program. What do you think we should start to try to rule over that frustration level John. Well I thought that the the it did a good job of depicting the problem from a cross section broad cross section. I happen to think however there are a lot of families who are. In support of their

children. There are a lot of families living in these areas who are fighting the problem where the children do not. Their children do not necessarily experience the same kind of result. And the only reason I say that is that I believe the perception of us is that of crime generators. The news seems to depict that. Not that I'm blaming the news but that's literally drummed into the mindset of society now. And there are other sides of black people. African Americans are busy going about the business of educating their children caring for their futures supporting their families and I believe that that balance was not depicted sufficiently enough as to offset what's already a very severe and negative criticism of African-Americans. Eddie Johnson your principal of Coleman elementary school in the city. You also see the frustration

not only by the students but some parents and so forth how do we get your students. At that level and the level of junior high school my high school level to buy into the American dream it was level of frustration is not so acute. First of all I think one of the things that we have to do is keep presenting them with positive role models. If we do not we're going to lose the dream or continue to lose the dream because they have to know that at some point in time I can be just like that person or better. So we have to continuously reinforce the positive male model there. One of the other things that we have to do we must continuously tell our children that they are great. That they can achieve. And there are high expectations set for them. And we have those same high expectations set for the parents also. But we're not just working with HL. You have to look at it as a whole family aspect. We're dealing with the whole family here. So I think if we begin there

we have a good setting as to where we can move on. I find that we lose our voice around the fourth or fifth grade. And it may be that they are presenting themselves with another kind of world model. Who is the peer. They want to be so much like their poor. That they tend to call along with the crowd rather than become a good decision makers. And that's one of the things that we tried to. Work with the students in school would make good decisions wrangle from where I was from to your own life. Carter Johnson you're president of the Concerned Black man in Washington D.C. You also see this high level of frustration not only here in Baltimore Washington D.C. as well. Is it treating the symptoms. If we go about trying to lower this frustration level what is your view. Well my view is we need to talk about solutions. Over and over and over again in Inspire African-American men especially to become part of the solution I think wow that was an insightful piece in many

regards. It's celebrated the problem for the first half of it. And again that is part of the problem itself. The irony of it all is to talk about as the piece did about the negative images of African-American men. And yet to a certain extent the piece played into that. We had African-American men cursing on the screen drinking in public. A lot of my brothers are involved in it in that kind of activity. The perspective of Concerned Black Men is to become involved not as role models who are from a distance but as role models who are in the classroom working with African-American boys and girls on a regular basis. RICHARD ROWE They are the president of African-American men's leadership council. Have we now turn the corner she would now not be talking so much about what the problem is is it well-known enough so we can start focusing on the solutions and will that lower the frustration level. I don't know if it will lower the frustration level I know is important that we began talking about what needs to be done. This is not a complicated issue. We've been over

and over this problem before. There's enough studies being done on this problem there. There are enough statistics to define the status of African-American male children and African-American male adults. And I think that we need now to take the studies off of the. The cupboards or the shelves and moved to implement them until we as a community decide that maximum and who development is a priority and we must make it a priority what do we really want African-American male children to become when they become adults. What is that what is the definition of manhood. Until we as a community decide that we are going to set some guidelines and some standards for African-American male development we will be sitting around talking about the problem. And so I think that we should celebrate we should celebrate the the end doings of all of those men out there who have overcome the obstacles my father your father and all the fathers that many of us know about who didn't make excuses who simply said that this is what is given to

me and I'm going to overcome this and I'm going to do the best that I can to take care of my family and to make a commitment to my children. I think that those are the stories that we need to see more. And those are the kind of stories that we need to celebrate. And we're doing that don't we. I mean with the program that you're involved in right now does just that kind of thing and there are other programs just you know about them is Johnson you know about the right of you know about them as well. How do we expand on those there's a cadre of small cadre of people right now involved in a number of volunteer efforts and several levels. But are we getting to the people in the numbers that we need to get to to have them volunteer on the broad scale we need to appeal to them to get this thing turned around. Well there's never enough. People involved and what we're talking about here and that. I think that there are example after examples of many many programs across this country and I am proud to say that there are many many African-American men and women across this country that are putting their best foot forward and are simply trying to turn this around there are many institutes that have developed as a result of this there are school systems trying to

implement programs for African-American male children. But we must see this. We must begin to to move move this from a level programs to a movement. This is this is that to become a movement for the next 20 years or more. It cannot be just a two year program or three year program. The community must see this as a movement and deal with it as a movement. But but I also want to add that it's not just a social movement it's social economic. One of the areas that I believe that we've given some criticism I thought the piece was overall very good. And one of the good parts about the piece is that it just didn't stop there. The fact that we're having this discussion on television is I think a good step and hopefully they'll be more follow through. But I believe a very critical element that's missing from the formula is that of the the emphasis on economics. We go back to a time when we had to balance neighborhoods and yet we had segregation.

We were not allowed to read yet we we learned we overcame obstacles and you look at what drove that. Well there's an inner spirit of desire to improve our future generations. But there was an emphasis on economics save your money. You need to say to go to school you need to get an education and so forth. But we also had businesses so in those neighborhoods we had a balanced community. We saw those role models. We saw all kinds of church the school the teacher the professional the businessperson. We have reached the point where in our social movement. And the only reason I say that I know we're not debating but we've got to emphasize the need to have economic strength. That means we must have education. We must develop skills. We must not become dependent on other people to just provide jobs our civil rights leaders seem to stop at getting a job. We've got to create jobs we've got to create our own future we've got to be responsible for our contribution in a capitalistic society.

Until that becomes an emphasis an area of emphasis. I don't think we're going to overcome the gap that has eroded over the past 30 years. So it's a community movement it's a social movement but it's also an emphasis on economics and we can't let that go. I like to piggyback on what he's saying now. We're talking about economic fear and we're talking about big businesses and we know that by the year 2000 it's projected that about 87 percent of the workforce will be minority and. Another So big businesses now have to buy into. Becoming those role models. If they do not they will not have the type of workers that they are looking for. And I'm talking about large companies like BGM who see everything. Some of them do give their workers some of the men who Project 2000 time to come in and become those role models for those boys and girls but it just can't be one of the two major

corporations. We need everyone to work. And when you talk about the communities each community now must I guess we must now educate ourselves. In some kind of way and educate yourself in the way that you as a community and I'm talking about not the large communities not the entire district but that's taking 15 or 16 blocks at a time. And in that formation are there 15 or 16 blocks. Learning how to write grants to the federal government say that we are going to work on the drugs problems in our neighborhoods we're working on mail in which so that we can educate ourselves in order to get the kinds of resources that we need to do this. Can I just throw one should learn how to grant grants to those large companies that are in the community not just the federal government not just the governor. And that is big. This is that's right. This is your own to be employing most of the people that went through it in the future. If you're going to be coming you know we're going to pick up those. So he called it.

Go ahead. Oh. Oh yes. OK. But I want to give a. I know that there. Go. I've got a lot. I think you have a lot of problems. So well. Well I would hope for progress and up for the crowd.

And I think the question sort of I heard we're talking about black women being part of the problem in terms of pulling black men down and she was talking about that. Well there have been some people who have been writing about that some horizontally most notably It ended with the end. I quite frankly have some problems with that. You know I have a very supportive mother and sisters and African-American women who are dear friends and I don't think that black men have been pulled out all that much I quite frankly think that we have created a situation for ourselves where we deserve a lot of criticism for the way we have reacted to both our children and to African-American women. So you know with all due respect I think we need black men have to look in the mirror and say What

have we done to bring some scorn upon ourselves an African-American women should demand a lot of African-American man is the caller really saying though that a lot of the situation comes down to the individual one on one and relationship and again how we conduct ourselves in our families how we conduct ourselves with our sons with our daughters. And we need to improve that. We cannot be absent from our homes and expect in the schools for example to come up with ways to discipline our children and to cause our children to behave in the ways that we expect them to behave in our homes. When you think about the Miss Johnson is is that the one I want to relationship and do you see children coming into the school for example with them with skills that you wish they would have better home once they came to you as a result of the relationships they've seen at home and those what they participated in at home. Well you see both sides of the story. But I have to preface it by saying that those males that we do see at the school are very positive. They're interested in their children and they may not be able to be there at their

home at that time but they're interested in their children. However the students see them as a enforcer or he's the enforcer mama over on some kind of way. But that model comes on both ends of the spectrum for us on the other side you see the male coming in as well I haven't seen my child in a couple weeks I like to see them. And then it becomes a juggling act because many times some of these students are not to see their fathers. You know they have papers and the mothers will call you say well we have papers he's not supposed to come to the school anything the say so here you are in the middle of something. So what message you know can you give to a child at that time. So the solution is keep a solution oriented. Yes the solution would be for what to happen in that situation. Well for first the parents to get together and whatever they have to do with the trial should be done after the home whether they are to where they are together whether

it's abortion or separated eg where that child might exactly so that the child does not get a mixed message. And this is confusing for most of them. Many I. Spoke to another point to just you were talking about economics doesn't really start with a job and I mean it goes back to before that it goes back to some of the images that you all talk about in the media that we probably need to work on we do need to work on. But doesn't a job an honest job an honest day's work for an honest day's pay really preclude some of the problems we're seeing now and can we expect more jobs if we don't employ ourselves with the black gross national product must be huge at this point and we don't need to see more investment in the African-American community by those who have quote unquote made it. Well I think that the biggest source of the problem is that we see the job as the ultimate. We don't see the job in its whole economic track in other words. African-Americans have introduced more ideas to the world we have

from thousands of years ago and the contributions we've made even in science and technology but in the arts and in entertainment. But we haven't capitalized on the commerce side. We haven't capitalized on the business side because we didn't think of it when we went to school with my generation. Our ultimate aim was to get that job. And once we got the job we bathed ourselves in so many consumer items that we actually created a different hole for ourselves. Little did we know that that job was creating a bigger troll trap to overcome then the problems of segregation integration because this was self serving. So we went into debt. And we actually created a culture for our children who grew up seeing things and instead of saying well I want you to go out that paper route or watch it you know work in that. We said no no no Johnny I don't work.

I'll give you a car when you get 16. We made it easy because we didn't want them to have to go through what we went through and we were passing along false values and now we see that generation that's growing up and we're saying what happened. Well I certainly don't know all the answers but I can tell you if all we're thinking of is a job as the ultimate to our future then we're doomed. It is a part it is the skill. It is the knowledge it is the education that leads to the job that then should lead to another plateau and to another plateau. And then we're talking about economics in a broad sense where we're contributing where we're producing we're wise consumers we're investing you know none of this has interest infiltrated into the African-American community to the degree that it appears to exist within the cultures of others. So I believe one of the problems is we stop at the job we march for peace jobs and freedom. But what happens after the march. I

mean the job is is is one aspect of what we have to do. Perhaps starting with chores at home responsibility and going on from building upon that the will and the desire and the determination is what we should instill in our children. And if we do that coupled with the ability to get an education then they'll find levels that we never thought of. But we just can't look at the job as the only thing that we need. The number to call is 1 800. 2 2 2 1 2 9 2 we have five phone calls standing by we're going to go to our next phone call. Caller go ahead you're on the air. Oh hello hello. Go ahead you're on the air go right ahead yes. I'd like to commend you on the program that you had on I have a question I'd like to throw out to your panel that is whether you think the federal government should concentrate on all of this resources. Say children live between birth and six and let the private enterprise access over the next 12

years these people are going to be in the workforce we don't have enough resources spread around so it's probably in a private enterprise concentrated on the ones on first second third grade and on and let the government contemplate all of this resources on making sure that when both of us are Maggette into the workforce they will be qualified by picking up out of the idea that you're powerless and thrown out. Then over the next 12 years would be able to turn this whole thing around. That's a different solution I've heard before. I quite frankly would be concerned about about the federal government being responsible to a large degree for the development of our children from from birth to age 6 and then sort of abandoning any responsibility or most responsibility for the children. Older than that I think that while we should insist upon resources from the federal government for all of our children whatever their ages it's incumbent upon us in the programs that we create in the institutions we develop in the businesses that we create to

provide jobs and skills and values and training for our children so. But now you know maybe we can think about that idea a little bit muddy the other issue too is that we should never really rely on the federal government to do anything. For our communities we should have learned our lessons from the 60s and 70s that when you rely on the government for everything it turns you into a dependent individual you become more dependent than independent. And I think that we should be moving towards independence as best we can with the resources that we currently have. I think Joshua talked about economic peace. And unless we have a sense of what to do with that with those those monies once we get them in we're not going to turn those dollars back over in our community. Then we're defeating the purpose. And so with all that we've talked about the social movement the economic movement has to be a cultural movement a spiritual movement a psychological movement so that we as we talked earlier about brainwashing ourselves so that we begin

to do for self in the way that we need to know that we're going to phone call we're going to take a call and come right back on. Caller you're on the air. Next caller please. I mean oh yes go right ahead please. Basically what I want to know from your panel I already have my own ideas but what are some of the things that a man like myself who was raised only by his mom and I want two brothers can do to ensure a positive result to raising my own children given the fact that my struggle simply to survive financially is so great. After all they say charity begins at home. What I'd like to be able to adopt a kid or to enter some of these programs in the elementary school for instance. But it's simply so hard just to maintain a status quo in the household. And I often at this point. Is there any way that the caller can ask his employer to let him invest some time in his family. But I doing

that say a half hour a week in the school with your children. And even though you don't make up that time you will make it up more maybe more productive working four and a half. Hours or four and a half days a week. In those five days if you feel very secure that your child is doing the best to his ability at the school. And you feel comfortable with your child knowing that well at least my children now know that I care and I can get all. Of our fingers off of over 30 for me I can I have time off and I need a partner. You didn't hear me. Yes. OK I need to go if you need to break I understand that you know you have other callers and cetera et cetera. I appreciate your input. Could I could I respond I don't think anyone is going to be so self-serving as to give recommendations on how to you know child out of rear child certainly I'm not going to do that but I can tell you this.

First of all I want to applaud the caller. Your sense says it came through in your voice of being involved and I think that's the key word. There may be a frustration that sometimes you may fall short and some few dollars. But I believe whatever time you can spend at the right time I think quality time is what it's all about. Whatever you can do to be there whether it's by phone whether it's by a little note to express the love and show that the support is there and to make that a consistent pattern. It's not it's not that your child can't wear the Nike shoes. It's that your child participates and knows that your love and support is there. The more we can do that whether it's our child or someone else's child it's got to help. And I just want to applaud you for your sense of concern and and how deeply you feel about this and I feel you're going to be OK. We hope that our kids are. And before I leave you guys I'd like to applaud all of you. Maryland Public Television for the job that they're doing for my people.

Thank you. Let's stay with that parental responsibility and control issue a little a little while longer here. Sometimes it doesn't come down to talk about solutions. Still to come down to providing a quiet as quiet a place for your child as possible to to be able to do his or her homework. And it doesn't mean just saying Johnny or Jane. Go and do your homework. It means even if you as a parent have to struggle and maybe educate enlighten yourself to be able to participate in the in the homework assignment with your child. It really reinforces some very important things for you to be in there involved and not just say you go and do that. Is that important very important and one of the things that we're finding now is that many parents don't for some reason or the other maybe they were young when they had student their children did not have all of the parenting skills that are necessary to deal with the children of today. And those parenting skills include How do you work with your child with homework. Do you holler and fuss at them all the time or do you know

how to give them constructive criticism without making them feel that you know I can't do anything right. So one of the components I was working with all of this with. The male image is that some of the parenting skills need to be addressed through a program. Understand they have a project independence and I understand that's an excellent program working but they forgot one aspect. You're dealing with the bank but you've left out the check so you can have one without the other. It's got to be a combination. So what we may suggest as a solution in this component then let those if they have to go to Project Independence every day. Let them begin to spin one day a week. Or a half a day of a week in the building with the children. Many of them have never been to the school never because they were afraid for one reason or the other maybe they had problems when they were going to school. Maybe they didn't complete school but

at some point they have to come. That's one way. 1 800 to 2 to 1 2 9 2 is the phone number that's 1 800 to 2 to 1 2 9 2. We have another phone call waiting Caller go ahead you're on the air. If I want to commend you for the program I think it's very likely. But if it's of what bothers me is that I'm hearing separately about what we need to address what we think the problem Mike and I want to propose. For example in particular the Fed given a large corporation you can bring on any six month period an individual better wake up or risk would not think that because. That have not yet proven. Will they go back to the ghetto with even the type of thing that fortunately the black in the ghetto actually be seen as being in

the mainstream with your program. CBS needs to promote but actively become like the present that will go to a party in Anaheim park to get like milk that we can bring out like milk and milk and have a meeting of the mind that they forget. Like if I'm not going to go in the type of environment that we saw that the individual. The program that I think we're going to let them in the professional environment til they have old Europe get Phillip make that attachment but I want to know whatever Have they can bring a mishap perhaps they can bring on it and in turn everything. So a promise from a guy like that. But let's bring him on the have happen unless they get some advertising

from the black community so we can put ads on the face. CB and throwing a party down the river right there on the park. Come one come all we'll bring out this sort of thing and have a party where we also having fun. But by the same token we got to like mail like mail obviously successful black males I think making the effort to step out and do that there is no other way out of the violence and you know or women I bet it's like you know whatever the play. And this is a terrific column. I love the show. I love the operation they provide I love the efforts you guys are making you sleep talking about the problem. But for God's sake let's step off about how to make it happen. Would you please address the question. Well I'd be glad to address what you said.

To step off the couch when the show is over and to get back to work I think that unfortunately that the sense you have of the work that Concerned Black Men does is is perhaps a little misguided. We do not take African-American boys into professional settings and law firms and banks and businesses and the like. Soli we do some of that because it's important that they see that there's no huge cultural. Gap that they have to leap over. But we do things rather than giving a party in Anacostia Park. We will have a picnic with homeless children in the district. We will also have a youth conference where we allow young men to get together and plan the conference and run the conference we've done that for three years now we've done it not only in D.C. but we've done it in Prince George's County. We go to where the children are and we deal with our children in the environments that they live in. Project 2000 is a solution oriented program where we have gone into and started in Washington for Concerned Black Men unfortunately has spread throughout many

communities in the United States where we took African-American men into the classroom and to stand elementary school where there was a principal and a guidance counselor who wanted to see African-American men come there. We have a host of programs at least 10 to 12 I would invite the caller to give us a call and they'll be a number posted later. And you'll find out that we are involved in a lot of things in the community. And you can contribute. Well I don't want to go necessarily getting back to that I have to be people who are professionals who are making a lot of money. We were in the public who were on television who were in the movies role models of people who were working every day for a living going to and from work you know catching the big deal you see everyday life getting on the buses going to and from their jobs. These are role models out there and you know and emulate that's why we've got to be very careful about the degree to which we make the exotic the athlete the entertainer the the ultimate person as a role model because by virtue of what they're doing not being negative to

them as individuals. But how many of us can become paid athletes and fly through the sky like a Michael Jordan great guy but but just the skills that God gifted and and the skills that he has just don't don't emanate from a reach. I'd also like to say since he offered a solution for companies I believe that his suggestion is certainly well founded we do in fact bring trainees in. The problem that we have is in this country we don't have enough black businesses in the country. We don't have enough large black businesses to devote the kind of resources necessary for these kinds of programs and there aren't the kind of incentives for doing that so what happens is you do it because you believe in it and you find a way to to make it happen and in so many instances it's a cost factor not an incentive factor so if if somehow we could get together with the legislators and provide an incentive to the African-American and minority businesses for bringing on trainees in terms of

new bit opportunities then I think you'd see something but you're really onto an idea and hopefully we can get together and pursue this further color. Us. You. OK. Call us. Thank you very much we have to we have to move along here thank you very much for calling in we appreciate your time. Let's take a little break now and give you the names and phone numbers of some groups that are trying to make a difference. If you have some time to volunteer you might want to call one of these groups and we're right back to you. Harrington Welcome back to black men uncertain futures the phone number to call if you want to participate tonight is

1 800 2 2 2 1 2 9 2. That's 1 800 2 2 2 1 2 9 2. I have an interest in getting back into this area of images because young children are before the television set a lot more hours than they should be in many cases in many homes a lot more often and a lot longer times are there in front of their books and doing homework and studying. And this is a problem I mean I think all of us have come to the conclusion that is a problem let's not dwell on the problem but the solution what should the media be doing in changing the images that are before our young children before they can even speak there before televisions. Because parents in some cases are using TVs as babysitters in many cases that's the reality. How do we now go about changing the images that these young people are seeing is for example more African-Americans behind the scenes making the decisions about television both news and entertainment. One of the answers would you think. Sure it is. Absolutely I mean it's clearly our children spend a lot of time in front of the tube. But when they see images of African-Americans if it's not the Cosby family or some other

show and it's not if it's not public television then they'll see images of families are real happy whatever their circumstances are they're sort of you know laughing and all that sort of stuff. They virtually see stories about sensitive hardworking men and women of African-American descent. And I think the news that the television industry the film industry has a lot of responsibility there but they're not going to just do it to the extent that these these industries and corporations are own by not African-Americans we can expect too much and so it has to do with ownership owning and being behind the camera and being able to turn on and off switch to say no that's not the image we're going to show we're going to show something else. Look at him looking back to the point where we got to take a phone call we don't know how long he's been waiting. Caller you're on the air go ahead with your question please. Good evening. What I'd like to talk about on the program talking about the inability to find it. I think that problem was also on the fact that there really isn't a lot of ground level weapon they can

put out even by some of the organizations that it is fine with me and Rob. I mean we're being killed information about jobs that exist elsewhere like I've taken Baltimore city county or even I don't know the people people who own coffee you know and I don't know they don't want to go out on the road to go to the one that the people who don't have given the bad judgment given much by the actual jobs out here. And being that that is one of the problems getting a deal and you know I. The organization can revive that very fact because I don't have a summer week and I don't know about the you know occupation about about 170 jobs require about how I want to opt out

mechanism. I want to take up the professional work in and out and provide a very good point. Color and job fairs I know are going on maybe not to the extent that they should and we need to have more people going into the schools at all levels exposing our children to what is available now in the economy because the economy is changing rapidly. Jobs are when available 5 years of ago are now available and it's going to continue to change Ms Johnson. He mentioned organizations I just want to take it one step farther and say let's look at communities because that's look at community based organizations. And those persons within your community who can go out in find you the resources as to how to get the job. These are where the jobs are available. Those are the persons you want to keep in touch because you want to look at your can you know all personal community first and work with the people within that community to build them up because when you build them up you're going to build up the students there. The

children there too. And then we move on and see us moving up. I can see the media plan a pardon that I can see the media coming in on a monthly basis to community or community organizations and then a find those persons and then to find those resources that these communities have found so that we set up a network between all of the communities. But it has to start somewhere and I do like the gentlemen's point of organization but I think we need to start with the community itself. You cannot get me going to call. Yeah I predicted away from the notion you know you're gratified in the community for a lot of Commerce and you compare row row row of artwork that are in the community that. That's not what I was saying I was saying that within your community make that your

base that them help you to provide you the resources to go out to other areas to find jobs. But you have to start somewhere. If you're talking about these you're talking about large organizations. You may not be able to reach all of them and they may not be able to reach you but certainly within your your community if you knew you have one organization that had many resources available to you or who could fan you some others for you to network with then that would be the place to start. First of all you know I think I and most of us are guilty of using the word community and I'm not arguing with your points but I don't know who that is. It's what we make it now. I was in over the last week I was in sick 5 different cities and I happened to take cabs taxis and several of the cities and I can tell you this in most of the cabs that I was in I didn't recognize the language. I mean I knew was a foreign language and I could you know deduct to some degree. But I can tell you this.

The dispatcher was of the same language. I saw other cabs and so on I was in Los Angeles not too long ago and one of my friends took me for a tour to what was the black community. It's still the black community except all of the signs are not in English. I saw a brother walking out of the shop using the chopsticks like I've never seen anybody use I mean this whole infusion. Let's take the mystique out of jobs. It's not simple and it's not easy but it's very basic. And one of the ways that other groups which come into this country and I say that with no negative intended is they create the business which then leads to the job that business then brings others of their ilk into this network. And that is a job as these people gain in their ability they also create their own job and all of a sudden their own business and they then replicate that process.

We've got to reach the point where the mystique of jobs is not just up to someone else and I'll beat that drum until I only own my last breath. Jobs is a cumulative result of business. And if we have the people in business and the sensitivity as someone said to bring a trainee into the business that's how the jobs are in fact created that's not the just in response to the callers to his concern. But I just feel so strongly about that. We just don't put that topic on the table for discussion or consideration this caller is talking about a job tomorrow morning or you not color you want to talk about where these young men who you might see on your way to her job at the corner not having anything to do being idle. Where can they find work now skills that they may have or were skills that are easily learned by these individuals that we're talking about Colorado. So I don't know. He's an employers and he knows exactly what he's talking about how they're going to back them up but the job

is not the end all. But I'm not saying it is. But what I'm saying is that reading talking about. I think it's a matter of building institutions. But even then you can't build on this mission on the basis of an obvious thing. I mean for people who have gone rogue and haven't when you don't have a job because this is a constant and which Money talks and run things when you don't have a job when you when you're on a purchase sell you are possessive and you're liable to think and I believe that that is a large portion of the members of the generation of the misery that black communities in Groton people want to work they see these things but somehow they can't get at what I'm saying is that yes in some way that you can be productive and when you have people that you can do and look at life with some kind of face with a plan and with a

vision then what the gentleman was talking about the necessity of institution building a building. Become somebody. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Thank you. We're going to take another caller. Your next question please. Yes. Hello. I agree with many of the things that have been said but I also think that we need to take a look at one major underlying issue that encompasses everything that we have spoken about and that is regard in regard to looking at what our educational system should be doing with regard to black images. We are dealing with the system used to do forms of myth and devalue African-American History and Culture and dehumanization. This has never been reversed. So I say that in order to help along everything we talk about there needs to be a restructuring of the educational system

to make an effort for example right and not only do we need to bring in Africa centric point of view to the system but we do need to integrate in our education system no longer Afrocentric or Euro centric but universal so that it may benefit anyone and everyone who brings something to the table is not an Afrocentric spent time on things that aren't directly related to the job. And should that be the case. I tell you I say this so that when we speak of a restructuring of the educational system we not only speak in terms of preparing that person for a specific or particular job. We are both in terms of reading that person in my body and spirit in terms of giving that person something. Nurturing himself in terms of values and self-esteem and we

do not want what has been lost. We lose that essential component and they will that person keep in the job market and the educational system and every other aspect of life that we are addressing. And I think that's an excellent point you know there are people who are very vociferous and negative in their arguments against Afrocentric education claiming for example that it will lead to the ghetto was ation of education that it will lead to images of African-American men that are false and the like and I think that that that says that we're on the right track. But those people who think that Afrocentric education is such a risk are right it is a risk because we will then be able to arm our children with the knowledge that a lot of the things that they learn about in the math in the math and in the sciences are things that Africans created a long long time ago. And if you tell that to an African American child that this was the origin. Of the system of mathematics that child's going to deal with that a lot differently and be a

lot more excited as we have found that over and over and over again. I agree that you have an Afrocentric curriculum in your school you've everyone here came up and I want to came up at a time when that was not necessarily in vogue and we probably heard some of the same people through the Washington Carver and some other great black Americans. But was that possible for us to achieve what we've achieved in some cases. What do you think. Well I think you know you raise a very interesting point because I know that. But I had a very supportive family. I had a very strong community network a very strong extended family that supported me and we were respectable what was being told to me if I brought it home and we sat around the dinner table and I brought it out. Brought up my mother and father simply said that it was true or not true based on their experiences and based on their understanding of history and so that was in place for me and I'm quite sure those who were seen around here had a similar kind of upbringing. You know I think though that while the caller raises a good point. My concern is that while we're waiting for this restructuring what do we do in the meantime. And everybody

now is running to develop Afrocentric curriculum and all that. I still believe that the first school is home and that Mom and Dad must develop themselves so that they can impart the kind of values and knowledge of the children with the church and with their community supporting that kind of education. But until we really understand that that is where the first lessons are taught and learned. You know we will be sitting around trying to develop a powerful central curriculum for the school system but are we talking about another kind of child or child who is commonly referred to as a latchkey child who doesn't have a mother and a father a mother or a father therefore good part of their day and their night and who is going to lead and direct and guide that child through his homework or any of the things that he's going to be thinking about when he comes to school. And he could be expected to do it himself. Isn't it true and is not the parent's fault that she has to work or he has work they do have to work hard to earn their living. But the difference is now that the value system is being placed upon the school and we

have to instill these values in them and the children there are many parents who still have a dinner hour at 5 o'clock. But I think all of us remember we used to have a dinner hour and everybody was in the house around 5 o'clock to eat at the table to discuss or to and out any kind of problems. Now it's five o'clock or whatever time they eat. Everybody is everywhere it's like I have my own agenda. You have your own agenda to retrace forward. Exactly which is this which was working on this precise problem. Yes. The African-American is Leadership Council runs we operate a Rites of Passage program. That encompasses everything. Almost everything that we try to talk about today we talk about the need to teach our young men entrepreneurial skills we have a special summer program to Jude did to do just that. But we do more in terms of teaching our young men to respect themselves first and to love themselves for others to see family as being priority. Seeing the role of fatherhood as being a

priority seeing the role of a man defining himself what's above his belt not what's below it's about as a priority and as long as we can teach our young man those types of lessons. We feel that over the course of a year these young men will come to realize that they are important that they are special and that they can operate in this world on a level that anybody can operate on. It's been part of the problem that we're into this whole notion of instant gratification. And if I do something now I should feel the result of it five minutes from now or five seconds from now even. And how do we instill in our children in ourselves many adults have these same kinds of problems that education for education is valuable. It is good to know things it is good to be aware of the world in which we live. Even if we can't see any tangible benefit in the way of. Prophet for example or dollars as a result of knowing that. How do we turn to the values that it is good to know things it is good to be aware and education is good for its own sake we have to be the example.

We have to set the example children who see parents re children who see parents who enjoy books who value books over television and to listen to this all it takes is right now getting up having a book in front of you and your child will let you know that they will I mean if they if they see the excitement and enthusiasm that you bring to the room dining room or the living room in terms of sitting down with your child reading to that to that child. I mean the studies point out that parents will read to their children what produce children who love to read. And so we don't need to make this complicated is very very important that parents set the example. Children do what they see parents do and they're not going to live by the dictum they do as I say not as I do. They children are very smart today and they simply are looking at parents and if parents are doing the kinds of things that we all have objections to our children will follow suit or emulators of parents. I think one of the things that the. A special pointed out very well that's where the big brother being available being present being there. The phone call in the middle of the night knowing that it's OK to do that isn't that

child's parent. But as an extended parent and I believe that the whole concept of parenting has to be extended to many of us and it would otherwise not feel were involved. Whether it's is in training programs or whether it's in the availability but the parent concept that is being available being able to teach that culture and to constantly reinforce it is something we all have to start doing whether we thought we do or not. Let's go to the phone call for a moment if we can and we'll come back to that point in the later. Caller you're on the air going with your question please. Yes we're going to move for you today. Just a couple of issues. OK first issue is being called minority. I've spoken to several young people and they have you know take issue with that. They look at the being called a minority and the negative aspect if you look in terms again is that it's been taught to read you know black and brown people not just the folks on line.

So it's difficult to see how we are minorities so I think if we just give you the term nonwhite and I think that's been true to the point. Secondly I think you were talking about education and that is something. We can certainly give me what we got to helping us understand who and what we are and that there will be much better understanding and then a feeling for us and the self-esteem and self-respect that can come forth. And it's an important point we'll make out of the 12 percent of the population and very often we do get caught up in the fact that we are different and we're made to feel that every day racism and discrimination is still very much alive. It's not the sum total of our problem but it's one of the contributing factors of the situation and we need to overcome that because certainly all of the people who have overcome that are examples that hand me overcome and you can deal with that you can't

put it into perspective and not let it get in your way and not let others determine how far or how near You're going to go with your education and with your life. Yet when I speak you know I've been taught to look at myself and the universe you know as a black child to be universal. I don't limit myself here to United States were little people African-American people on this planet. So we're really not in the minority as we are constantly like that. That was a contrived act to come up with that term to make us feel inferior. I mean mine I just. Lesson number one think of it as global minority and I think that to have that view aspect and be aware that if you control the way a person thinks you control the person you have to think much better and that's all I'm going to thank you very much for your call we appreciate you joining us tonight. Well we have only a four five minutes left let's talk about some final thoughts and

summarization of the problem is Johnson start with you where do you think we should go from here when the Hopefully solution oriented and we turn the corner now and you know talking about solutions as opposed to redefining the problem over and over we think we should still lead that we should go or continue with the role models the positive role models. I believe we need to look at it a more enter agency approach as we talked about earlier we do have an interagency approach to. Dealing with. Education division of social services and human resources. But we're not closely joining together enough to make a difference. I think we need to look at projects like Project Independence and add some more components to it so that we really get into the problem or find a solution to the problem that we're talking about. But there's just one point I want to make and we haven't looked at that at all tonight or several of the answers right and one solution and I'm going to say it and leave it at that point and

we can perhaps have another forum on it is that we have to look at those prisoners now who are maybe role models within themselves not those who are just coming out or those who are just going in but those who have been in there a lot long enough. To begin to come out and talk to some of our youngsters not at the middle school or the high school level because they're going left their youth at court but at the lower levels to instill upon them that it isn't what you see when TV it isn't made up to be all that you think it should be. So I think we need to look at that also. Thanks very much Joshua Smith funny folks were there too. Very briefly one is one caller mentioned the government should do something at an early age in the private sector to do something you know late age. I think we should understand that as was mentioned here what the government is not but also the government can play a role in stimulating the private sector and making it possible serving as a catalyst and policy

toward the things that we all should do for the right reasons so let us recognize that the government cannot be ignored but it has to be directed but that means we have to be involved politically. We're not really a force in the political system but politics is power and we need to be on both sides of that to make sure we don't lose whoever comes in the place so government plays a role. Politics is a vehicle to government we've got to become players and controllers. The other thing is as we focus on the black man and we should it's a major problem. Let us not forget that our black females are X and are absolutely a necessary part of that bridging that gap we're talking about to reach the future. I see it from the entrepreneurial side those who have the fire in their eyes and I want to applaud the women as we reach out as we all reach out. Do all you can do and we need you to achieve even more to make up for that shortfall so let's not just tune it to one side let's

look at this holistically as we focus on the split special problem for which we're here which is where we're rapidly running out of time about 15 20 seconds to you and to the left. And that's going to be for Robin Johns we have to stop fighting each other. We have Joshua just mention that African-American men are nothing in the absence of having American women we need to understand that we need to less individuals hug our young male children as fathers we need to spend more time with our children. As a community we need to simply create an empowering atmosphere for our male children. That means that all of us must embrace our children. Part of Johnson less thoughts. Final words. Two things. The individual responsibility. African-American men and women need to get involved especially those of us who have quote made it need to make sure we go back to where we came from and never forget that. And secondly institutions. We need this movement that you have talked about brother is very important because we need to see it as something not as small as working here and working there but it is a movement. And maybe the good thing about all this is that African-Americans will take great responsibility for their own institutions and our own children.

Martin thank you very much thank you ladies and gentlemen for joining us tonight. Blackman uncertain future has been watching on Maryland Public Television thank you for joining us and have a good evening. Oh.