A Woman's Place

All over the world all through the ages a woman had to know her life is. A place defined by tradition inscribed in Mom. The mail is by nature spirit or the female inferior. One rules and the other is rule. Women should remain at home sit still keep house and bear and bring up children. To be a woman. Means. To submit. She should be long suffering until death. Self-restrained and chaste. Women even though they are of full age should be under guardianship as being scatterbrained. All over the world in many different ways. Women are questioning their place. New laws are being fought for and won.

But can new laws change old ways. We traveled to three countries to find out. To. Middle America. Where a prosecutor battles to create a safe place for women. In Bombay India. Where divorced women struggle to find their place in society. And to a remote rural area of South Africa where a judge fights to guarantee women their right to property a place of their own. Funding was provided by the John D and Catherine T MacArthur Foundation the Ford Foundation Carnegie Corporation of New York the Shaler Adams Foundation and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Sandrock the.

Prize in South Africa. We have. Custom which is centuries old. We have a new constitution which has just been introduced. Now my job as a magistrate is to try to find a way in which custom every new constitution could exist peacefully. When I it is in my own fate was welcomed with mixed feelings.

For them it was the first time to see a magistrate. So I I said you should live up to the standard and not disappoint them in any manner. Can be sentenced to pay a fine of five thousand rent or rent defaults and now go with imprisonment for six months. Indeed it is a judge in the rural district of Mount Freyr once a black homeland and the former apartheid government. Here under centuries of African law and custom authority has been held by traditional hereditary leaders like Chief in day to day. He will be well was digging. Hey to the you know bangup about the power of my. Thumbs got in 1994

all black homeland's came under a single Constitution as part of the new South Africa. The Constitution gives women full and equal rights in direct opposition to former colonial laws and just centuries of African custom. The chief presides over all important events in his community. In customs when a man dies. His son inherits his land. In cases where there is no sun. Traditional Leaders searched the family tree for the next male relatives. Now. They take their home and look for a new medicine and if in the first place there's no one. Then we check on the next one. OK who's the male descendant in this house.

OK Saurin So no there's no malice. Only a few minutes into the next rent and so on and so on until they find a mate even from a very very distant relative as long as he is part of this them and then he inherits the estate on behalf of the woman tell them the women are not even included in the family tree. Now I always say to my chief magistrate that look. Is it not high time that I chopped down your family tree with the new constitution because it guarantees equal rights for all. But the Constitution was written hundreds of miles from now Frere. And many here have not even heard of. It. Yet.

In. Custom when a girl marries. Her family must be compensated for the loss of their daughter's labor. This payment. Usually of cattle is called level of lobola signifies that the girl now belongs to her husband's family. Belongs to. All because. It was while we're at. This will finally Lindsay we're inside. The minds of high drama. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa. Whoa whoa whoa

whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Come in. I come in. Oh my God. We are in trouble. You've got up on the grid. Oh

my God. Isn't goes that it doesn't say good. Bye. After. I was born about six months later my father died. We went back to the question of state. They looked for someone in the family who would inherit from the estate. They found one who took away everything that my father ever possessed up to and including the furniture. Everything Cutler everything my mother had to buy a second hand

bed in which we would all sleep to start from scratch. In the years that followed and his mother worked hard to educate her daughters so they would not meet the same fate. My mother wanted us to have choices. She wanted to teach us that we must be who we are regardless of gender. Q What's the difference between me and women is that I am employed and they are not. I am empowered economically and I am Enlightened and met has a think tank. My own status as a mother of. Editor understood that you introduce the ideas of the new constitution. She would

need a strategy. So she decided to hold inheritance cases informally with the local chiefs and all the parties gathered much as they would in a customary court. She hoped this familiar setting would encourage people to approach her with their problems. You know I'm told that I don't like the feeling that we don't get people to come back. Sounds good to me. Oh I know. And then I went got my mom and my son in tonight for Nancy. It's called the sake of the people who drafted the Constitution. Did not consider how it could work with the people on the ground. People in that area as we had to find a way as the magistracy of Mon-Fri as to how the Constitution

could get to the people. That. You're going to. Ask you to mascot's you know I don't know. What you. Mean to you. I hadn't. Wanted us to say no to any type of yeah. When I was among those who were innocent it was something that is banned by this. Is it a single vote was called for. Not my. Contra lessa is the National Organization of traditional leaders.

The local chapter has gathered for a meeting in mouth Freyr. Whoa whoa whoa. Whoa whoa. Why these. Thoughts. I'm thinking of. Going to was born about the attacker. My feet were burning up. In negotiations over the Constitution. The chief's fun to exclude the gender equality calls but they were defeated. But is it true that it was on Monday. Was this thing on. The moon. Traditional Leaders are confident that their bargaining power as a political force they

have authority in the eyes of people and special protections under the new constitution. And data has traveled to Parliament. To talk about what the new laws mean for the people of her community. They've never. Had. To. Go. Up there and on the ground that people know nothing about the cause. The very first contact their women have with them is at the chief's court. If we engage the Chiefs then I'm afraid that is going to cause up her rising. We need that she has as much as they need us. The whole world is changing. For any point

to take. Those all the values I deeply entrenched. In. Changing the laws of our society is one aspect of initiating change. But the most crucial aspect is changing the way society looks upon those laws. What attitude will change from the implementation of the No to start with and then down to the grassroots level to the Chiefs. The clock is the cold war. So the Chiefs have been invited to an DTAs court now and detre decided it was time to visit barracks was. All of.

A few 75 per telling. Us. About what they can buy guns and we pen that we have now. Oh yeah. Well when I gave him. Bye bye bye my God. No crying. Oh my God. I am about to discuss it over and over with and are all going to says I was that good. But without any guidance he had already sensed the needs to change is the kind of chief that I could do with. We. All know that no one died. Oh well.

Then I did not die right now but I would say oh oh oh oh my. God. No laws and saying oh yeah go die. Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa. Whoa whoa

whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. We have to be very very patient because we have to liberate every member of the society the men and women. And it is going to take a

very long time. But to me it is going to come. I think. A woman's place is in. A man's home is his castle. When I went to law school I never once heard the term domestic violence. It was not a

term that was ever mentioned over the whole three years that I spent there when I moved to Duluth and started working with domestic violence cases. I had absolutely no idea what I was getting myself into. This is a domestic. Western. Merry Christmas is Duluth chief prosecutor Purvis handles misdemeanors including a soft. As in many American towns. Most of her assault cases involve domestic violence. Historically domestic violence has been accepted and condoned in our society and laws even that regulate it. The degree of violence that could be used to fight men toward their wives. This has been a radical shift to say that that not only is it not condoned not acceptable. But it's actually criminal in nature. Duluth was the first place in America to enforce mandatory arrest for

domestic violence. This policy was made possible by a 1978. Advocates for battered women had spent many years fighting for this law. I. Billion dollar traditionally a man's home is his castle and nobody steps into that situation and says otherwise. But the problem is what happens if the people in that home aren't safe from each other. Can't be safe in your home or can you be safe. When Mary moved to Duluth. The city had just begun its fight against domestic violence. And Mary's office was

flooded with cases. But women were refusing to testify. Afraid of their abusers and mistrusting the system. OK we've got advocates calling it got a police officer calling. He was a victim calling. She was subpoenaed doesn't want to go to court. Victim Colleen doesn't want to appear. Police officer can't be here. Attorney calling victim calling. Typical day before jury trials. Yeah. OK we've got a case for a don't we. If the cases were coming into the system so that our community could intervene in violent relationships and yet the ball was dropping with me because I couldn't seem to get the case from the point of arrest to a conviction was a small abrasion to a retreat. And there was a small operation to the right side of the nose. I have read a statement from you that I saw that you got one. After that. She sent us a statement saying I gave false information to the police the night of

January 11th. I'd like to see the case dropped or I'm willing to take. Everybody seemed to be able to do their job except me because my job seemed to depend totally on what the victim could or would say. Yeah she doesn't want to testify. I'm going to talk to her tonight but she's called doesn't want to testify. Court has before this warning a complaint tried to defend it it was fifth degree assault or domestic assault. This matter is to go to a jury trial today. At the end of the evidence that says that the state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt the belief that family violence is a private matter created a culture of silence that extended into the legal system would there be anybody who would feel like police officers that government that the criminal justice system should never get involved in family situations involving domestic violence.

In the last decade cases of domestic violence have been appearing in courtrooms across the country but they're often the most difficult cases to prosecute. Being a prosecutor in domestic cases is like hitting your head against a brick wall and a wall and I'm hitting my head against is this system our rules of evidence are based on the assumption that if people have something to say that they ought to be able to come on down come on down to the courthouse and tell us what's on your mind tell us what you have to say. They don't really deal with the fact that we have many people in our society many of them domestic violence victims who are afraid who are afraid to come into court. It doesn't mean that nothing happened to them doesn't mean we shouldn't be involved. It just means that they're afraid and that they are under the control of another person. Just don't slap them. This is actually. The first time I have to stop and think about

exactly how much power over me and what he did to me he would say threatened that if you ever leave me I'll kill you. No and he would accentuated with his like this. The whole atmosphere. Is. That. He was a pawn for that had that much control. You said I don't care where you go. You know he said to me there's no place you can go because I'll find you I'll hunt you down. And. A battered women will say that the worst part isn't even the physical violence it's the emotional abuse. It's the isolation. How do we get a system that can that is structure to really respond to them. OK so let's put that up there. I see some hands here. OK. What we've got is a system that doesn't acknowledge the reality of what battered women experience it's based upon the assumption that people can freely come to court and talk about things that have happened to them. And that isn't the situation for most battered women. Mary was determined to find a way around the system.

What she needed was a loophole. I came here many nights I was never really sure exactly what I would find. I just went searching through everything that I could that would teach me how to do a domestic violence case without the victim's help. Mary had one thing to work with the statements victims made to police officers at the scene but this evidence was inadmissible since officers did not witness the violence firsthand. Their testimony would be considered hearsay. I found exceptions and exclusions to the hearsay rule excited utterances present sense impressions. Are there rules that allow the victim's story to be heard by the jury that without having to come through her. Could you live with these. I can live with that if we're all in agreement. Looking back. Over several years Mary worked with police officers

and advocates to develop a strategy together. They found ways of reporting cases so that hearsay could be admitted as evidence. Finally Mary was ready to try it out in court as in most cases the victim had to be subpoenaed to testify. I remember her yelling at me just just yelling I'm not going to say anything you may call me to get up on that witness stand. I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to give my name and address and that's it. And so I thought well we'll see. And this is like two minutes before the case is scheduled to start and I was really thinking this is just probably not worth it. You know do I really not at that point I was thinking why didn't I become a tax accountant. You know. Mary called the police officer to the witness stand. But would he be allowed to testify. And then I asked the magic question which was what did she say to you. And of course there was objection from the defense attorney

hearsay and I looked up at the judge and it just seemed like the seconds were light years it just seemed like it was just stretched out over a years. And I looked at the judge and I said Judge this is not hearsay. This is a present sense impression. Under Rule 8 0 1 D-1 D and he didn't even look up at me but it was just writing and there was the silence that seemed to last an eternity. I was like you know what is he going to say here. And then these wonderful magic seemingly magic words came out of his lips. The objection is over. The witness may testify and it was just this wonderful wonderful sign. Overruled. The witness may testify. Domestic violence happens in. Every community.

It happens in the nicest towns the nicest neighborhoods. It's a problem that nobody really wants to deal with. It's easier to keep it hidden. It's uncomfortable for us because it cuts right to the core of who we are as women. Who we are. As men. You. Said you want me to kill her and I'm 10 years old and I'm begging my father not to do that. I'm saying please don't do that. You know what 10 years old I was the little boy says I'm not going to be like this. And at 21 years old I found myself and I do jail time. Schroer was one of the first men in Duluth arrested for domestic violence. Today he works as a counselor in the community's domestic abuse intervention project.

They need to understand the social context in which you know they're being violent. It's not about you know getting in touch with their anger. It's more about identity it's more about who they are as men in on what their beliefs are about women. You know it's about a society that models and equality between men and women. And that's why it takes so long to change those of us who work in the legal system grew up in the very community whose attitudes were trying to change. And unless we start thinking differently about how we do our jobs we can never really implement those laws. We can't just change the laws. We have to change ourselves. You talk to the officer about the Everett case if he doesn't show up you can stick around for a while to deem to be decent over time. Mary found even more ways to introduce other evidence into court. At the same time the defense learned how to counter these strategies. Our conviction rate is about 80 percent and that's considered to be high.

But every case is hard won every single case is a battle. So you have some preliminary motions you are. Yes the state will have several motions Your Honor the first motion would deal with the admissibility of statements oral statements made by the complainant. To Officer Jenkins at the scene. I think the court's going to take a few minutes to review this matter. We don't get the present sense impression where we are as out of luck. Probably he he he just told me a few minutes ago and Kevin and I were back there that he's not going to let the other incidents. So we're down to what the current case is and if we don't get in. Any of what you testified to here we don't have a case. With respect to these things often do a lot of it is to be presented to the jury. The judge rules in Mary's favor a role for the court get the truth the whole truth and

nothing but to tell you what happened in the minutes after she got home. Yes. What did she say to you. You begin to argue at some point Richard slapped her. She said it wasn't hard did in fact state she's a slap children probably between 10 and 15 times more. Are you saying today that Richard never struck you or did he slap you more times to the back of your head with an open hand. Did he hit your head. About 10 or 15 times. No. I go forward when the victim doesn't want to prosecute because I know if there's no intervention that her situation isn't going to change the state at this time the whole theory behind what we do in Duluth is to say the community says this is wrong.

You as the victim you're in too much danger to be able to stand up and say that. But on behalf of our society our criminal justice system is going to say this is wrong. Courts reviewed it smells of all of the testimony in this matter and the officers follow up citing a lack of evidence. The defense has made a motion for acquittal to cause this court to conclude that a reasonable jury couldn't find beyond a reasonable doubt on an assault occurred. The court therefore is going to grant the defendant's motion for judgment of acquittal on the matter will be dismissed. Thank you folks. The judge did say that there just wasn't enough evidence to get to the jury without the victim's co-operative testimony. So we'll go back and start working on some cases. You know I'm not somebody who gives up easily and just just don't want to give up. There's still so much more that needs to happen. And what I'm trying to do is to

is to see that the the principles of equality and fairness that our country was based on apply to everyone. But everyone has the opportunity to live a life peacefully and in safety. Was a. Girl who suffered. And died.

Without. So. She would do that to me my Some of. Loss. To.

Some of you said no that it's a shame for a woman to give Dago's. Why do you think women don't need the hose was it. Do you think this is going to matter. It just gives people one of them and they will always say that it is something wrong with the women. You always get up at night after all. You know that's what makes something on with me. Jude mongering does seem a mystery. I met her

husband in college. And they fell in love. They came from very different backgrounds and both their parents oppose the relationship. But the two were adamant. Eventually their parents agreed and they were married. My mom you know what they say love is blind. All I wanted was that I should have a good husband a happy marriage a home of our own. That's all I needed to be happy. To see the full of dreams. And it was like a fantasy at the time. Full of dreams like we see in the movies. Nina Grover was born in a traditional wealthy Hindu family. She was in college studying business. When her parents arranged a match for her and Vina was married in a lavish traditional ceremony.

Make I. I wanted to be the ideal daughter. I learned by watching my mother. She lives peacefully with everyone and dedicates a self serving others especially my father. Daddy these were the things I had in mind when I married. Marriage did not turn out as Veena and Sima expected. Venus and Mars tortured her because they wanted money from her family. Seems husband began an adulterous affair. And constantly humiliated and abused her. Both Vienna and Sima prefer to bear the torture then file for divorce. Legally. I knew I could get a divorce because he was cruel to me but my parents are not very rational and to tell the truth I didn't have the guts to even ask them to help me out. The thing is some of the accepted amongst us Hindus that a married

woman comes back to her parents house. I just didn't know what was going to become of me so I will do nothing but sit in the house and cry go away. I knew there was such a thing as divorce but I could never imagine that it would happen to me that I could get divorced. It was hard because I was pregnant. Maybe I didn't have much confidence or it's what our culture demands or society says so. But that's how my family background was in our family. It had never happened ever. But the one had come home like this. Vina had come back to live with her parents her in-laws threw her out when her parents could no longer meet their demands for money. At this time Vina was pregnant and her parents begged her in-laws to take her back. They refused. To give you an idea to get out of the way you could think of you.

Can think of that. Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Whoa whoa whoa. I thought it was. I may. As well take a look at them. Well that guy. Seems husband threw her out and took away their four year old son. She had no option but to go back to her parents house and share the two rooms with her parents her brother and his family. But. The mother couldn't go to go. To sleep with him.

Oh my God. God bless those who take sick. Sima and Vina wary of the law but with no other choice. Both women went to the same lawyer for help. That on both sides is that interacted with the law. And I had experienced whole whole back was used Poppy due to a law partly due to be jerky but partly due to a lot wrong strategies. And whatever lessons I learned in my own case I was able to apply to women like Seymour when her sister just came out

after 13 years in an abusive marriage. Flavius sought help and found that justice was no easy matter. Maybe some women leave her experiences led her to become a lawyer and form a legal Center for Women. Usually when women come to me I would not advise them to go in for divorce. At one level they have it out of divorce but this is looking in economic rights. So what do you mean destitution in Indian context. So in effect what right does it. India wrote a new constitution in 1951. Combining English colonial law customary law and modern reform law. In the process. Women lost some rights they had always had in custom. Such as the right to property even as they gained new rights like divorce. While the

law listed grounds for divorce it left matters like alimony and child custody to the discretion of judges. For women to have equal citizens out in society. I think two things are really basic. One is an economic independence and one is a. Biggie. My father in law never allowed me to work. He would say a woman's place is in the home. Our women don't work. So I never under any and all the time I was married when smoke came to us was I was sick and she was all over the house and if she'd gone to any lawyer would have said that she wants divorce. And he would have filed for divorce. So our strategy of not filing for divorce as the first option but saying that post-trade or that this is your whole this you have to live with this whole and you must reenter this whole force. In law a divorced woman has no kind to a house. But as long as she is

legally married her husband is expected to provide her shelter. Gladia could get a court order to prevent some his husband from throwing her out. But for that Sima would have to be in the house. We've. Got to get them. I refuse to go back to that house and I got really mad at me and said How can you send her back there. Her husband will kill her. Nothing will happen. Trust me. I was trembling just trembling. You know I just going to get into the details of what this meeting will do that. So is it all going to be end your life is. Finally I got up the courage to go back. The house was locked so I broke the locks and went in. And my husband came back. He was shocked to see me. He said get out of my house. I said it's my house do I have the right to be here. I'm not leaving. Just you try and throw me out. Getting in

the house maybe he. Passed an order saying seem to have the right to stay in the house as long as she was married. If Ms husband wanted her out. He could file for divorce and Scena would consent. On one condition that he give her a house. I'm not going to have. The deposit money for 40 or 50 years. Whatever. I said. OK now I'm not ready to doctor. When I came back to my parents I would never leave the house because I couldn't bear to meet other people's eyes. For every small decision I

depended on my father or brother. But these things form in you from childhood and later it's very difficult to change yourself. She. Would not even come to my office alone. Every time she comes. And it would be unbearable to be talking. Didn't. She was in the whole matter. I don't even like that I do. Don't ask me about that. What do they say. I read. Dina's daughter Ruth to come was now five years old. While Venus husband did not want either or Ruchika back he would agree to a divorce only on these conditions. He would not return Venus jewelry he would pay no alimony and their daughter Ruchika would have to be given away in adoption so that she could never claim a right to his property.

A She got the Saudi rights it's a double bind. Either this mess continues or if I agree then not only must Michiko Fogo her rights but I must give up my rights. Aloha Rich you guys when I have and if I don't even have that right then went to my left with. Your ideas for life. The moment we marry what happens our husbands make demands and we obey. But everything has its limits. Now that limit has been reached. Maybe. Not in 1992. How do we not be any kind of economy. I think. That's.

How. It. Goes. OK the next day when I went to court everybody the clerks the elevator Manty officials also here we saw you on TV too so embarrassing but I felt happy like this. And then he goes Well those guys live in a thing like that. When I came home I said to my mother Mom isn't it great what I've done. They go on me like I get nowhere. You feel as though that a woman knows. Against. The board.

I never. Chill out. Which actually benefits when they. Do is on me. Was just. Beginning. Was was just a thought. My parents have supported mean every week can but I understand their feelings. They are torn between tradition and my situation. They are trapped in between. These other points of damage to them.

Some of them are with evolution. Some of them I was just asking to build up the guys I've written he said Every day I was walking down the road. Go on and on each and every thing should we not make it easy for them at any point. Because I knew nothing about the law and my lawyers would just useless. So in court it was always my husband and his lawyers who dominated the lawyers get your way. I just stood mute in a corner agreeing to whatever he said. It was a farce but with Flavia it's different. I know every detail of my case. I know what my rights and this has completely changed me. So go on now in quote. I speak as it suits me. Why should a static change with the times. And I'm really happy that they do change with the times. I think that people like us have to make that intervention in order to make it more meaningful to them.

I'm looking for a house for myself. My husband and I have reached a settlement and he's going to give me money for a house. I've got a job. I've made new friends. I'm a strong person now. You know I've transformed myself transform everything. It's a whole new year and a whole new life. It's. Just. Me You.

See you. No no no no no no no no no no no no. We. Got. Funding was provided by. The John D and Catherine MacArthur

Foundation. The Ford Foundation. Carnegie Corporation of New York. The Schaler Adams Foundation and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting