Roger Welsch &…; 408; Mark Awakuni- Swetland

This program is funded in part by viewers like you, who are members of Nebraska's For Public Television. Joining Roger this evening is lecturer Mark Awakuni Sweatland. Good evening and welcome. Mark Awakuni Sweatland is an old friend and kinsman of mine. And there's never been a doubt in my mind why I appreciate him and the course he's chosen for his life. Like me, Mark is a man of passion. He follows his heart. And with a good heart, that can lead to quite a ride in life. Early in his life, Mark became fascinated with Native American culture. In particular, the same tribe in which I eventually found a home. Nebraska's Omaha tribe. The difference between Mark and me, however, is that he dedicated almost all of his energy and time to his adopted Omaha family. And then, as if that weren't enough, he set out on an academic career along the same path. Thus becoming a friend and

kinsman of the Omaha and an anthropologist with the information, knowledge and training to back up the commitment of his heart. Welcome, grandson. It's nice to have you here with me this evening to talk about what you're doing. And now here, you're back in Nebraska, having been in Oklahoma and exile for so long. When you were a little kid, Mark played Cowboys in Indians, were you always the Indian? No, actually, I don't think I was sophisticated enough to be able to tell the difference between Cowboys and Indians. All I knew was I was the one that was always on the bottom of the pile. So maybe I was the horse in it all. I'm not sure. Where did you grow up? Here in Lincoln, born here in Lincoln. Actually, if we were to step out of the studio and chuck a rock, you'd hit the old family house. But it was before this building was even built. I remember when this used to be cornfields over here. Where did the interest, and I almost hesitate to call it interest because that makes it sound like a hobby. It's really more of an obsession and yet it's more than that because it's become the

very fiber of your life. Where did this consuming occupation with Native Americans? Because now, of course, you're working with other tribes too. But primarily with the Omaha tribe, where did that come from and when? A lot of people ask me that wanting to know what was the thing that pushed you over the edge and led me here. Part of it, I always account it to being the middle kid in a large family. So parents are always having fights with the oldest ones and doting over the youngest ones. And those of us in the middle, we can do anything we want. Or in my case, I felt unfoundedly. I felt kind of left out of things. So I was looking for some kind of connection to family, even though I was in the middle of a big family. And of course, this is all from the perspective of a little kid. So you never quite know what's going on sometimes.

By the time I was middle school age, my older sister had gotten into one of the co -educational scouting groups. The Explorer Post, 500, the Wachisa Indian dancers. And their Explorer Post focus was on Native Americans specifically dancing and cultural kinds of expressions. And so because she was a member of that, I then became a member of it, started hanging around. And I got into scouting then at the Explorer Post age. I never went through the younger portions of the program. Soon after I got into the Explorer Post, which is made up of all non -Indian kids, both boys and girls, I realized, gee, there's no Indians around here. And we're supposed to be emulating Indian culture. Why don't we go talk to some real folks? And through my sister's relationship with a Native American girl from school,

I got introduced to some local Omaha's, Ted and Betty White. You may remember Ted White, he's still out there dancing. And I went over to their house in this kind of bright, eyed way. And I said, I understand your Omaha's, I understand that you go to dances, pow -ows and stuff. And I'm in this Explorer Post and I'm supposed to make an Indian costume. Can you help me? And I didn't know it at the time, but that is exactly the way you go and ask for help. As you show that you're really unable to do something yourself and acknowledge what you over here, you know how to do something, can you teach me? And Ted and Betty, they said, yeah, yeah, I think we can help you out. Come over this weekend to our house, bring this, this, this, and this, you know, materials, and we'll start making you a dance bustle and all these kinds of things.

And that began a relationship with real live people, not just stuff that's, you know, on TV or in books. And after these folks that helped me put together a dance regalia, one that I thought was better than any of the other dance regalia's in the Explorer Post group, they then said, well, we're going down to Oklahoma for a dance this weekend. Would you like to come along? Well, I'm in, I'm probably what, sixth grade, fifth grade, sixth grade. And I didn't know if my parents would allow it. They didn't even know where I was going when I went over to visit these folks at their house. But I said, well, let me ask my folks. And so I talked to them and I said, well, so and so wants to take me to a dance. Is that all right? And they said, well, I didn't give my parents a lot of credit then for being really savvy about what I needed. But they said, yeah, go ahead and go. And it's only later, you know, in my, now that I can look back and think, they must

have trusted what I was doing. How old were you then? Fifth or sixth grade, something like that. I went down to Oklahoma. I went to a dance. It was at Ponca City in Oklahoma. It was a family -sponsored dance, as you're familiar with, with them that they tend to be just family and relatives. There's very few outsiders, especially very few non -Indians. We were in a crowded pavilion dancing in the middle of summertime. Somewhere along the line, I realized I was the only white kid down there dancing. But I fit in with everybody. I got into their dance competitions and I went and I ate with everybody. And then I heard Ted and Betty White when they were talking about who it was that was with them. They had brought me and they'd brought one of their nephews from Macy along to dance. And they said, these are our two nephews from Macy. So they were introducing me as one of their relatives already. And I was

able to just fit right in. We had a gale time. I went to lots of dances with them. And that just kind of got me down the road. I've already got 50 things now that I've got to head off in directions all at once, Mark. I guess we can begin with where you just ended. And that is one something that's always astonished, pleased, and it's one of the reasons I'm sure that I'm with the Omahas. They're understanding of family values. I always have to laugh when I hear about American family values arguments. Because their idea of a family is so pathetic compared to an Omaha understanding of family where the family is not only an extended biological family. I mean, all of your cousins in the white man's sense in all of your uncles and aunts and all of these relatives. But then there's also another dimension. And it's a,

it seems to me even more flattering. It's not an honorary membership where they put a hat on you and give you a goofy name like the politicians are always doing. It's a genuine adoption. And it seems to me that when you have relatives like in mainstream America, well, it's an accident. And you can't hardly, you know, do anything about that cousin who always shows up at the picnic drunk or something like that. But among Native Americans, when they accept you as kin, you really are kin and they have elected to make you kin. Boy, that's, I just got goosebumps thinking about. One of my daughters is a woman who asked me if she could call me dad, if I could be her father. She's probably only 12 years younger than I am 10, 12 years younger. My daughter, Colleen. But, you know, I thought, God, what an honor that is to have somebody ask, well, you be my father. And it's a very moving

thing when that happens. As you just expressed, when they suddenly start calling you kin, wow, is that a kick in the stomach for the planal white boy? Yeah. And it's, like you say, it's something that's elected. That means that it's not, you're not born into it, whether you come out as a saint or a devil. It's something that they've, they see something that they want to have close. Or, you know, in my case, when I made relationships with Charlene Elizabeth Stabler, just a few years after I met the whites, you know, there's a feeling that I want these people to be part of my life. And the thing about terms of relationship is that it's not just that I call you grandpa and you call me grandson through our Omaha relations.

But it's also that we have expectations of appropriate behavior. So, while I can tease you some and you can tease me some, on the other hand, I know that if I need help or if I need advice, that you as an elder, as someone who is a grandfather, I can go to you and I can expect some kind of assistance, whether you tell me what I need to know or direct me someplace else to go. Same way with all of my Omaha uncles, I know that if they call me up in one uncle, in particular, he called me up a few years back, about this time of the year, saying, well, you know, I really need to get those storm windows up because it's getting kind of cold outside. And that's all he had to say. It wasn't, you know, Mark, I need you to come over and, you know, climb up that two -story ladder. Or will you come over? Or will you come over? It was simply, he was in a longer

conversation, he just mentioned in passing, well, I think I need to get those storm windows up. And I knew, oh, nephews helped their uncles. And so I said, well, don't worry about that, I was going to come over this weekend, and we'll take care of those storm windows too. And so it's those expectations of behavior that makes terms of relationship really important, and then that connects you to the rest of the community. So everybody is acting appropriately, depending on who they're talking to. I know how surprised I was when I was given a name and adopted by Betty Gilpin in the Omaha tribe, that one of the luckiest things I ever did was have a flat tire that night. So we sat outside in front of what is now the Gilpin Center talking about what had just happened. And as best he could, I don't know how to express it because I'm not sure the English has the language for it, but he explained to me that it was not honorary. I was now his brother, and that is literally what they meant. I had changed. I had a new set of prohibitions that I had

to observe. I had a new set of obligations. I had to observe. I had children calling me dad, and I have a new sister in the law, and it's not just cuteness. It's not an honorary title. I had become his brother. Now, Mark, what even amazes me beyond that is these are people who should hate you and me. We're the white guy. You know, we're the man. They have every reason to distrust us. They have every reason to look at, I would think, boy, God, dancers, with some scorn. I mean, come on. They're taking our dances. They're taking our music. I was not an anthropologist, but I was in an anthropology department. They had every reason to suspect the academician scholars in general who'd studied them to the point of, and especially with the Omaha's where there'd been some betrayal in some of the studying. Where does it come from within these people to be

benevolent enough to take in people like you and me? Well, first, I would have to suggest that when we talk about the Omaha, we can't talk about them as some monolithic single entity. It's a group of individuals, a group of families, a group of clans, a group of worldviews. If you don't believe that, go sit in at any kind of tribal council meeting and you'll hear all of these sometimes disparate, challenging ideas being tossed about. So when you say, well, they should hate us because we're the white guys. The majority of the Omaha people, the majority of Native people that I've visited with are very sophisticated. We don't all look alike. They can distinguish between the good guys and the bad guys, whether we have black cats or white hats. And that also goes with academics. Currently, I am a member

of the faculty at the University of Nebraska, Lincoln's anthropology department. Granted, anthropologists have had a negative impact on some Native communities. But on the other hand, a lot of Native communities recognize the value of what anthropologists can bring to Native communities. What, just a few years ago, anthropologists were assisting the northern punkers in their bid to become re -recognized, re -tribalized after having been terminated. So Native people, I think they're smart enough, they'll look at you. They may hold back just like any wise person would. You hold back a little bit, look at the person and evaluate them. Are they true to their word? Do they look like they have half a brain? If so, we'll deal with them. If not, we'll go find somebody else that we can deal with.

How about anthropologists? Are they that smart? You know, as a scholar, you're supposed to displace some objectivity. I think that's very often why an anthropologist from the University of Nebraska would go study somebody in South America to have some sense of objectivity, distance. You're an advocate. How do you find your role going within the academic community as a member of the very people you work with? Well, that remains to be seen. I've had nothing but good rapport to this point with other members of the faculty in terms of dealing, having collaborative arrangements with local tribes. As you know, as you referred to my coming back from Oklahoma, I'm still a student there, actually. So I'm in two anthropology departments. And the department in Oklahoma has also been trying

to develop strong, ongoing relationships with Native people. But again, you cannot say that an anthropology department is this monolithic entity. It's made up of a lot of individuals, some of whom have stronger feelings in favor of advocacy for indigenous situations, others who do not. And the trick is to find those people who are working in the same direction you are, not necessarily in the same manner, but at least the same direction. And work with them. And those folks who seem to be going in their direction, you don't want to be going, avoid them like the plague. That's the best you can do. I think the first time I heard about you, and it was probably from the Stabler family, you were working on a dictionary of the Omaha language. And you've eventually published that, I believe, and probably are still working on it, if I know you. What is the rationale behind working with a language

which is essentially dead and unnecessary? There are no monolinguals left. What is the value? This is a question, obviously. I have my answer, too. But I'm interested in how you respond to it when you're asked. Well, what's the popular saying? The party is not over till the fat lady sings. The language isn't dead until all the speakers are gone, and any interest in the language is gone. And in the case of the Omaha's, neither of those situations are true. While it's true, there are no monolinguals, people who only speak Omaha. There are still, according to a tribal grant application in 1994, about 1 % of the total population is considered fluent speakers. And this tribal document suggests that that calculates out to about 70 people. Most of them elderly, most of them living in the Macy,

Nebraska area of Thurston County. But it does not account for a sizeable group of probably middle -aged adults who, while they don't speak the language, they do understand it. Much like you or I, when we go back to our biological past, the groups that we come from, we probably understand some of the words that are not English. But we may not be able to respond. But at least there's a level of understanding. In 1994, when I was working on my master's thesis here at UNL, I was looking at Omaha language attitude and Omaha language ability in the public school, because as adults in the community, we have this very high expectation of our kids. Yes, Omaha language is important to learn, and all of our kids should learn it. You and I don't speak it, but our kids should learn it.

And my question for the thesis was, well, has anybody ever asked the kids what they think about the language? So I went up and did a survey of children in grades two through twelve, and also administered a very brief proficiency test, reading a list of words in Omaha to them, can you translate this into English? Almost uniformly, all of the children voiced a very positive attitude towards the language, saying, yes, it's very important to learn. Yes, we should learn to read and write it, even though it's not really used in a written form. Yes, our parents should speak it to us. Yes, it would improve our life if we knew more Omaha language. The downside of that study was that in terms of proficiency, the children had negligible proficiency in the language, even though it had been taught in the public school in various forms for quite a while.

So my conclusions were that while the attitude towards the language is very favorable, it's not being modeled in the community. You can go to the new convenience store at Macy, pump your gas, buy your hot dog, and not hear one word of Omaha. You can go to the tribal court. You can go to the tribal offices and hear very little Omaha being modeled. I spoke with a relative just a few weeks ago up at Macy, and while he is a fluent speaker, we were talking about the introduction of Omaha language here at UNL. And he was saying, yes, that would be a very good idea, because even in my own house, I don't have anyone to speak Omaha language too. His wife speaks it, understands it, but they don't communicate it enough among themselves to feel like they are modeling it well for their kids, and their children don't speak it. So it's a question of, is it being used? So

why an interest in Omaha language? It's not dead. As long as I have anything to do with it, I'm going to keep jumpstarting it as much as I can. But really it's the folks who want to use it in everyday life. Can you go to Walmart in South Sue City and walk down the aisle and be talking Omaha and not be embarrassed about it? You can turn that around. Can you walk down the aisle in Walmart and be talking Vietnamese, Spanish, German and not be embarrassed by it? This has been an argument of mine for a long time. I live out close to Grand Island, as you know. And there the pressure is intense about people speaking English by God, if you are speaking America, as usually the phrase. If you are going to live in America, the fact of the matter is, most of the Latinos speak two languages. What I would like to see is a new law in America that everybody has to have two languages. That would make it fair and even across the board. All Latinos will learn English and all of the people

who are doing all the complaining could learn another language, which is not exactly a major imposition. Little kids do it all around the world. People do it and pay good money to learn how to do it. Or speak five languages. It is not exactly something that is a major pain. And yet the very people in Danubrog who lament the loss of Danish complain because somebody was putting a roof on their house is speaking Spanish. So I would like to see a time when America understands the value of another language. And so not only is nobody embarrassed when they are speaking another language in our communities, but damn well, better be able to really not be able to vote the next election or something like that. We are short on time and I want to talk about a project which in a way is what Charles Carold always told me not to do. He said when you are doing a story about a fat guy who rides a tricycle, you don't get on the tricycle. It is called riding the tricycle. But I rode the

tricycle with you last summer, a year and a half ago, two years ago almost now. When you very kindly let me join you in a project which you had put together of tracing the last Omaha Buffalo Hunt, was it 1876? When a large group of Omaha's left up north of Omaha on the Missouri River and trekked all the way literally across the frontier through very hostile country the same year that customers last stand had taken place. And two years before the Cheyenne had involved themselves in depredations in exactly the same area all the way to southwestern Kansas. It was a moving trip and I am very grateful to you for letting me tag along with you and your family in following that. But now this is expanding into an educational program too. Yes. The trail that we retraced had been traveled by about one half of the Omaha tribe in December of 1876, winter time. And we all know what that's

like on the Great Plains. Western Kansas. Oh my goodness. About 500 people with all their horses and gear enough to sustain themselves went down the trail. They camped 34 different campsites and one of the runners or scouts for that trip, Francis LaFlesh and Omaha Fellow later recounted that trip to Melvin Gilmore who worked with the state historical society here in Nebraska and elsewhere. Melvin Gilmore then wrote down this account and published it in 1931 and that's where I came across it as as this small article including the map of 34 campsites. And I thought wouldn't it be swell to go down this trail and that's that's what we did a couple summers ago. Then I mentioned it to some of the faculty and staff and parents and students up at Macy Public School now named the Omaha Nation Public School on the Omaha reservation and they thought that this would be just swell. Let's get some of the kids together and let's go down the trail.

Well, I said that sounds really swell. Let's do it and I was envisioning perhaps a half a dozen bright students in a single vehicle in the middle of summertime like when we went. Instead, the school staff and parents and such, they've all gotten together and they've decided that they want all of the junior and senior high school and faculty and any community members who want to tag along to go down the trail in November. And so in just a couple of weeks from now, my family will be joining them and we will go down this trail. But what's really neat is that it's not that the Omaha Nation Public School is trying to recreate some piece of lost history. We're not all going back to wearing buffalo robes and eating beef jerky or something like that. What the school's done is they've adopted the expeditionary learning outward bound

model of education where you take, in this case, bison as a backdrop for all kinds of learning. So there's kids that are looking at bison as economy, you're looking at political organization of the Omaha tribe at that time in order to actually go down the trail. You're looking at logistics. How far are we going to go each day? Who's going to bring the food? You're looking at ritual. What do we have to do to get down there? And what do we have to do to get back in a very safe spiritual respectful manner? Boy, Mark, I'm going to have to have you come back after they do the trip and find out how it went. I hope to be a part of that too. Thank you very much for being here, grandson. It's been a pleasure talking with you and to introduce you to my viewers and to Nebraska. Thank you for being here too. I hope you'll join me here again next week when I introduce you to another fascinating person from this wonderful place called Nebraska. Thank you very

much. You