Swank in The Arts; 160; Ann Cushing Gantz Interview (3 Texas Artists)

And so I ordered a swivel, because I expect with the bond issue, we'll be dealing with more than one session. Oh, yeah. You'll have some panel kinds of discussion. Yeah, some panel kinds of things coming up. Just let me know when you're just set as rolling. Swike in the Arts Gants interview. Like a good idea at the time. Oh, yeah. There's bound to be an occasion. Yeah. If somebody was telling me the other day that my timing on closing the gallery was very stupid, just when the museum was going to be built practically in the gallery's back yard. You should have been able to just stuck it out.

That will be nice when that's there. Yeah. Yeah, it will. I think the next few months. Okay. Passy? Yeah. Don't mean to interrupt you, but we're all rolling and ready to go. All right. Anne Cushing Gants is a familiar figure in the art scene in Dallas and has been for good many years. She's been a painter since she was a young woman. She taught beginning in the days when the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts had a school. She's still teaching. She ran her own gallery for 12 years. Recently she closed that gallery and turned herself as an artist over to the Sturt Gallery's. And what prompted you to do that? Well, the closing of the gallery was based on a lot of things. I won't go into the whole story, but mostly that I'm like a great many artists, not very

good business woman. I don't like the business end of the gallery. As long as I had a partner who would handle that, everything went swimmingly. I got to do the, to be more or less an artistic consultant in the sense of dealing with the shows and artists. And when my business partner died, I inherited the work of dealing with the accountants and the tax people and the lawyers and so on, which I not only don't like, but I'm not good at. And I kept on doing it for a while and realized that this was so antagonistic to my creativity. I hate to use that impressive pompous work, but I couldn't get my mind on my painting when I was worrying about this picky thing with the business and so on. So it seemed like now is a good time to close it and not worry about it, put my energies on my painting and teaching which I love too.

What does it feel like to have been a dealer and then to be dealing as the client or the artist of another dealer? Well, it just feels marvelous. I like having John Stewart to worry about the details, addressing the invitations, making sure the wine is ordered, talking with Ms. So-and-so who wants to criticize this painting and say could you get the artist to paint this green spot purple and so on, which I don't enjoy. I mean, not that I'd ever do that, mind you, but I don't enjoy talking about it either. I think it's just heaven to have him to worry about all those things and all I'll have to worry about is the painting. What is it going to mean to your painting? Well, I hope it means a great expansion of meaning and depth in the painting because as so often happens when you are too fragmented and are or as someone said, wearing too many

hats, it's difficult to do as well as possible in any one department. And I think that limiting my professional activities to the teaching and the painting should benefit both. Is there a difference or do you feel a difference yet in what you are trying to do with the painting itself? Do you feel a difference in direction by this freedom? No, I don't yet. I have changed over the years more than I realize when I go back and look at older things. But for the past year or year and a half, I've been increasingly interested in the idea of using more or less realistic forms in abstract space, which is a departure. And now I particularly intend to pursue that direction. I think I remember one painter said, if I could discuss it, I wouldn't have to paint

it. I don't really feel that way, but I think that with more emphasis on, well, my two loves have been abstraction and the human form during my whole career. And I think this direction that I'm working in now has given me a way to combine those two things. Lots of artists teach at one time or another. But there are not a lot of them that teach all the time, right, straight along. What is it about teaching that engages you? Does that have something to do with the way you paint? Yes, I think it does. I find teaching a great stimulus to my own thought process. I teach differently from the way most painters teach. Most painters that I've run into have classes and teach their students how to paint the way they do.

This is my style, this is the way you're going to paint. And that's not it all the way I pursue it. I try to bring out each student's individuality. And this is the fun and the challenge to me that we begin by doing, no matter how accomplished the painter is when he or she comes to class, we begin by doing exercises stylistically. And usually, not always, but very often, through these exercises, the painter begins to find his or her own personal direction. And this is the excitement to me, plus the questions they ask that make me rethink my ideas. You know, was I really right by believing nothing so? When I have to defend it or explain it? And so it's a mental exercise, I think, for me. Did you find that being a teacher and being a gallery owner was parallel in a way? In other words, could you do for your artists as their dealer, somewhat the same thing

you could do for your students as a teacher? Some what, but to a much lesser extent, because many of the artists that I had in the gallery were either from out of the area where I had very little personal contact with them, or they were so much better at people that I looked up to, I wouldn't presume to suggest what they would do. That then is not what you want, for instance, of a dealer? No. You're silent. In fact, I don't want any of that. I think dealers tend to not be wise in encouraging stylistic directions, because I think their urgings are based on public taste, what is selling? Why don't you do some more of these, because I have six people who want them, rather than a true artistic growth? Forgive me, John Stuart.

How do you feel generally about the gallery scene in Dallas? Well not super. I think it's certainly a lot healthier than it was several years ago, and I'm glad to see more galleries on the scene. I think it's a shame though that what they exhibit is rather limited when you stop to think about it. We have, of course, the great Western culture where there are so many galleries showing that sort of thing, and then we have the very avant-garde type of thing. And very little in between. Why do you suppose that is in this particular city? I guess there's more demand for those two things, really. I don't know. Well, I've heard it said so frequently that other cities are better, that for some reason the audience and the demand is not here for a large market of painting across the spectrum

as you say. Do you feel that's true, or is it a failure of merchandising in some way? I think that perhaps the market here or the collectors here are maybe not as educated or just plain, not as interested as they are in some other areas, and I don't know why that would be, but I know when I did have the gallery that there were certainly quite a few people who collected knowledgeably and built marvelous collections. But for every one of those, there were hundreds of people who strictly wanted to commercialize what they'd seen in the mass media. How do you deal with that as a gallery owner who is also an artist with trying to deal with what people want when you know it isn't as good as it ought to be? Well, not very well.

When people would have certain requests like, you know, I want a nice Indian on a horse with a tear and in his eye, eight by twelve, I would tend to just say, well, we don't have it, and not account of an Indian's educational process. Earlier on, I did put forth a great deal of effort towards education. In fact, the gallery worked with some of the junior colleges, Mountain View and Brookhaven towards putting on some lectures and demonstrations and so on, that were quite successful, and I think did make a contribution to the community in terms of what is an etching, well, you can come watch one being done. How far can you go? I remember that you had a number of very interesting printmakers and prints and some unusual things in the gallery. How far can you go? How much of a balance do you have to have there in what's then? Well, let me rephrase that's a bad question.

I don't mean to put it that way. I suppose it'll boil down actually to money, purely and simply, when you can't make a living, you can't do it. But let me rephrase what I'm trying to say. How can you balance presenting, educating a public and at the same time giving it what it wants as a gallery owner? Well, I think that's very difficult, and what Cushing Gallery trying to do was, maybe a little bit like Don Quijote, we wanted to present what I thought was good and to do a lot of the educational business and hope that people would like it. In other words, we didn't have any shows that were calculated to meet a demand. And some of them did quite well, of course some of them didn't. Where do you see your own painting moving?

Well, like so many people, I feel like it's moving towards larger scale. In fact, what I brought today were the portable ones, but my newer things are all quite a bit larger. And more involved with texture, the effects of paint themselves, itself, the accident of the washes and glazes, compared with lots of impasto, I'm very involved with the sensual qualities of paint and the tactile surface. But I want to include this with some identification and relative to human form and human emotions. Well, good luck, that's a big new position, artist client, rather than client for artists. I think I'll rephrase that day, and excuse me, good luck in your new dual role rather than your triple role.

Thank you. Continue it for some cutaways, Pat. Okay. Of whom, of me, or of me. Yeah. All right. Well, then if we're doing cutaways of me, are you going to be on Anna or on me? I want to do the cutaways of you. Okay. Well, while I'm listening, all right, what, ask me a question. All right. What are you going to do with, where do you store your paintings? Well, currently I have my studio at home, which is the worst mess in the world, with hundreds of started paintings, discarded paintings, canvases stacked all over. And my husband says it's a complete fire hazard, and occasionally he goes in and renovates the surface area. But I like it that way. I think some, I hate to make generalizations about painters, but I think some painters really like to make a mess.

Can I ask another question, Pat? What was I going to ask you? I was going to ask you something else before that. Tell me how long you've been with John and a little bit about his plans for future years. Oh, yes. I particularly did want to tell you this. Well, not very long have I been with him, when I knew I was going to close the gallery the first of the year, and I made arrangements for him to show my work. He's only officially had it for about a month or so. But he has already arranged a show at the tentatively at the Abelene Museum and one at the Amarillo Museum. And we're going to have his idea. Oh.

Okay, the painting on one rotated 90 degrees that way. I'm going to do a little bit more of this.

I'm going to do a little bit more of this. I'm going to do a little bit more of this. I'm going to do a little bit more of this. I'm going to do a little bit more of this. I'm going to do a little bit more of this. I'm going to do a little bit more of this.

I'm going to do a little bit more of this. That's your raps. Okay, Nancy, we're rolling and when you're ready, you take it on your own. Good evening. I'm Patsy Swang.

This program is about three artists who are in the public eye this week. Willie Wayne Young is a student in the talented and gifted adult program at El Centro. The downtown college has arranged an exhibition of his pencil drawings. 19 paintings of the late H.O. Kelly are on view in the student center at Texas A&M University at College Station. In celebration of the publication in a new edition by the A&M University Press, a William Weber Johnson's biography of the painter, Kelly Blue. Anne Cushing Gants, after running her own gallery for 12 years, has turned her own paintings over to the Stuart Gallery where she is now enjoying a one woman show. There were two things that a high school education did not give to Willie Wayne Young back when he got his diploma,

the ability to read and to write. That's part of what he's studying at El Centro. But Young has his own private language which began to evolve over 20 years ago in which he expresses with a sharp pencil usually on brown paper. His inspirations are earthy, he's picked them up in the fields where he's worked and the stream banks where he's fished. Baudark roots are favorite and there are hundreds of them in the far North Dallas house where he lives and works. But the Baudark root is it looks to us is one thing. What happens is it moves through Willie Wayne Young's eye is pure abstraction. Willie, do you remember what it was that attracted you to those roots? H.O. Kelly turned to painting in his old age after everything in his life except his family had failed him. The dust bowl and the depression took his farm a text line in his few cows and his beloved horses.

Even the farm at blanket that he came and read it in 1939 would barely support his family. But the little pictures that he made of the scenes and events he recalled so sharply from his long life and painted to take his mind off a gloomy present attracted the attention of his neighbors in rising star and brownwood Texas and they told painter Jerry Bywaters about him. Bywaters was then the director of the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts and he arranged a one-man show there for Kelly in 1950. Every year after that until his death in 1955 H.O. Kelly was artist in residence at the museum during the state fair of Texas where he painted a little and visited a lot. One of his first friends in Texas was William Weber. No, sorry, roll it back a little bit. One of his first friends back there, one of his first friends. One of his first Dallas friends was William Weber Johnson.

Then Bureau Chief for Time Magazine and from this friendship came Johnson's book about Kelly called Kelly Blue after the skies with which H.O. filled each one of his canvases before he painted anything else. It was first published in 1960 by Double Day. Now the Texas A&M University Press has a new edition with 17 full-color plates. And to celebrate its publication, the university gathered 19 Kelly canvases and a large number of Kelly's and Johnson's friends at College Station last week. Thank you, Ann. Thank you, Willie. Thank you, Bill. Mrs. Johnson's show will remain at the Stirrett Gallery, 12-610 Court Road through July the 14th. Willie Young's drawings are at El Centro on the second level and will be there through June the 28th. Thank you and good night. I think we'd probably better do that last again.

Patsy Raps, take two. Quiet in the studio, please, and Patsy when you're ready, take it. Good evening. I'm Patsy Swank. This program is about three artists who are in the public eye this week. Willie Wayne Young is a student in the talented and gifted adult program at El Centro, and the downtown college has arranged an exhibition of his pencil drawings. 19 paintings of the late H.O. Kelly are on view in the Student Center at Texas A&M University in celebration of the publication in a new edition by the A&M University Press of William Weber Johnson's biography of the painter. Ann Cushing Gants, after running her own gallery for 12 years, has turned her paintings over to the Stirrett Gallery, where she is now enjoying a one-woman show. There were two things that a high school education did not give to Willie Wayne Young back when he got his diploma,

the ability to read and to write. That's part of what he's studying at El Centro. But Young has his own private language, which began to evolve over 20 years ago, in which he expresses with a sharp pencil usually on brown paper. His inspirations are earthy, he's picked them up in the fields where he's worked, and the river banks where he's fished. Baudark roots are favorite, and there are hundreds of them in the far North Dallas house where he lives and works. But the Baudark root, as it looks to us, is one thing. What happens is it moves through Willie Young's eyes, pure abstraction. Do you remember what it was that first attracted you to those roots? H.O. Kelly turned to painting in his old age after everything in his life except his family had failed him. The dust bowl in the depression took his farm at Texlan and his few cows and his beloved horses. Even the farm at Blanket that he rented in 1939 would barely support his family. But the little pictures that he made of scenes and events recalled so sharply from his long life,

and that he painted to take his mind off of a gloomy, gloomy present. Did attract the attention of his neighbors in rising star and in brownwood, and they told painter Jerry Baywater's about him. Baywater's who was then the director of the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts arranged a one-man show there in 1950. It was a memorable exhibition in every year after that. Until his death in 1955, Kelly came back to be artist in residence at the museum during the State Fair of Texas, where he painted a little and visited a lot. One of his first Dallas friends was William Weber Johnson, who was then the Bureau Chief for Time Magazine. And out of this friendship came Johnson's book about Kelly, called Kelly Blue, after the skies with which H.O. filled half of each canvas before he painted anything else. It was first published in 1960, now Texas A&M University Press has a new edition, this one with 17 color plates. To celebrate its publication, the University gathered 19 Kelly canvases and a large number of Kelly's and Johnson's friends

at College Station last week. Thank you, Ann. Thank you, Willie. Thank you, Bill. Mrs. Gansa's show will remain at the Sturt Gallery at 12-6-10 Court Road through July the 14th. Willie Young's drawings are on the second level at El Centro College, and they'll be there through June the 28th. Thank you. Good night. You got off reps? Okay, Patsy, it's everything's rolling and take it on your own. Good evening, I'm Patsy Swank. Tonight, we're going to hear again the recital that Yuri Yugorov played for us in the month just before he made his Carnegie Hall debut in New York. You may recall that Yugorov, Russian born and trained, was a contestant in the last Venn-Claren Piana competition in Fort Worth.

He was not a winner, but his performance gains such a private following that funds were raised, let's start that again, I don't like it. Please. Good evening, I'm Patsy Swank. Tonight, we're going to hear again the recital that Yuri Yugorov played for us in the month just before he made his Carnegie Hall debut in New York. You may recall that Yugorov, Russian born and trained, was a contestant in the last Venn-Claren Piana competition in Fort Worth. He was not a winner, but his performances gained such a following that funds were privately raised to launch him on an American career. That career is doing very well. He played at Kennedy Center in May, will appear with a Chicago Revenia Symphony Festival this summer, and in the fall, I'm sorry, I'm terribly sorry, I'm muffling this badly. One more time, and if we don't make it this time, I'll go back. Take your time, take your time, don't read so fast, and when you're absolutely ready, then you begin.

Good evening, I'm Patsy Swank. Tonight, we're going to hear again the recital that Yuri Yugorov played for us in the month just before he made his Carnegie Hall debut in New York. You may recall that Yugorov, Russian born and trained, was a contestant in the last Venn-Claren Piana competition in Fort Worth. He was not a winner, but his performances gained such a following that funds were privately raised to launch him on an American career. That career is doing very well. He played at Kennedy Center in May, is appearing with a Chicago Symphony at Revenia this summer, and in the fall, will begin a four-month tour of the entire United States. His recording of Schumann's Crustleriana, for Peter's International, was named Best Record of the Month for May 1979 by Stereo Review, in the same company recorded in his just released his Carnegie Hall Recital of December. This program begins with a movement from Bach's Italian Concerto, then we'll hear the Scertzo No. 2 of Chopin, Debussy's Reflections in the Water, and the list transcription of Paganini's La Campanela.

Here, again, is Yuri Yugorov. Thank you for joining us until next week. Good night. Patsy Raps. Patsy Raps. John Debney-Marcusen died last week with shattering suddenness. The name-Marcusen crackles worldwide with the excitement of oil and adventure, big business and finance, with the counter-tensions of risk and responsibility.

John-Marcusen was a part of that world, but he paid his dues in a lot of other places as well. He was president of the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts from 1974 into 1978. He and his wife, Lupi, with three other museum patrons, bought the singular and irreplaceable private collection of John and Nora Wise, to enlarge the museum's pre-Columbian wing into one of the most important in the country. He was a good friend to this station and to this program. When he and Mrs. Marcusen and three other donors made possible the series of films on North Texas Art and Artists that you've seen here, KERA is president of Ed Fister and I went to make a courtesy call. Marcusen accepted our thanks, but what he really wanted to talk about was the Arts Magnet High School, whose first advisory committee chairman he had just become. The Arts Magnet would begin a kind of creative circle, he felt. It would mean better arts training for more and more young people who would stay in Dallas to make more talent for more new companies and theaters and galleries and ensembles.

He was very excited. We won't lose that talent, he said. We can't afford to lose that talent. John Marcusen's engagement with the world of the Arts began a long time ago and he gave it his money, his time, his attention, and his influence. There is no way to say how much he will be missed. Thank you and good night. That's a keeper pass. That's a wrap and a session. Thank you all.