Iowa Press; James Freedman, Robert Parks, Const

Crash show number eleven twenty six recorded for 84. Major funding for this program was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television. And I was city teaching assistants at the state's largest university staged a one day protest earlier this year fighting state funding cuts for higher education. They say cut back we say fight back. Their protest was aimed at the state legislature which will soon decide how much money. I was three state universities will be able to spend next year what we're paying as much as we can possibly afford with the revenues that we have. The question facing lawmakers like Tom Yoakum is how much is enough. God. Willing

you'll. Iowa will press a weekly news interview program for Sunday April 8th this week. Higher education in Iowa with the presidents of the state's universities. Good evening I'm David yaps and sitting in for Dean Borg tonight will depart from our usual format to explore an issue that has social economic and political significance for Iowans and their government. The issue is education and the question is the cost involved in maintaining educational quality. And I was three institutions of higher learning with us this week to explore that and other issues. Our Robert Parks president of Iowa State University in Ames. James Freedman is president of the University of Iowa and I

was city and Constantine Carus is president of the University of Northern Iowa in Cedar Falls joining them for our examination of education is John McCormack a columnist with the Harris newspapers. Dr. Friedman to start with here we open the program here talking about funding cut for the university got you know funds actually being cut and if so how much more you do you'd need than what the governor has published. The recommendations that the governor sent to the legislature call for an increase in spending for the university. They do carry forward the 2.8 percent reversion that the governor was forced to order last August. We have presented of course to the Board of Regents recommended budget which it has cut and submitted to the legislature two of our supplemental requests to respond I think to your question of how much more we need we need more money for equipment for our laboratories for computers and new instrumentation. We need money to stabilize the funding of our college of my choice.

Do you think you are for what the what the governor's budget proposes. If if if I were able to make both prudent but. What I've been through is the Astor Grech of my nature and I would hope we'd be able to get two three four million dollars beyond what the governor's recommended to our parks. Well the situation isn't too different I think either one of our three schools sends most of our funding does come by formula actually 2.8 percent reduction that Governor Branstad in our budgets. Governor Branstad felt it had to be enacted or put into effect. It did hurt badly there's no doubt about it because it was only the most recent episode in the whole series of instances in which going back to 1980 I suppose that our universities have had required reversions and budget cuts and although we can understand why it had to be done. It's been a painful process and still is to adjust to that and it was particularly bad news there for.

What do you need. It was carried through to the next budget years I say we can understand it and we aren't pointing the finger of guilt at anybody but it is a tough situation what do we need money. What I would state. Well I don't think it's too different from. What we do and I was state as I imagine what they do with the other two schools also is that we have priorities when our budgets are cut. The first priority we have is to maintain the integrity of our teaching function and so far as we can teachers in the classroom then also we try to protect the positions of our people. And so far as we can. And then thirdly we try to do those cuts where we think it would do the least harm the damage irreparable damage to our university so what is going you're asking me what is going by the board now. What we need desperately is what Jim just said we need to quit in particular in this technological age we need equipment bad that we need we need more money for the modeling and renovation we need more money for just daily operating of the universities. Dr. Kearse What's the situation's university with. Not too different from not only the other

universities but I suspect most state agencies it's a very difficult time in response to your question. Our priorities would be for instruction for additional faculty for equipment. Well to get more specific Dr. Friedman and a student and new students coming to the University of Iowa next fall. If you do not get the increase you want what what is not going to be available for that student that might be in the end we are going to suffer Specifically we're going to do somersaults to make certain that that student has available teachers in the classroom adequate sections for the courses that he or she wants and in the laboratories in the courses he wants to take what you're saying you can get by then. I'm saying we're going to have to make cuts elsewhere in order to do that we're going to try our darndest to make certain that students are provided with the quality of education they need until the state is out of this temporary difficulty and is able I hope to return to it was it the kind of funding growth formulas we've had.

Dr Kureshi you represent the smallest of the three schools whatever the size of the pie is the University of Noida and I were getting a fair cut. Of high for them and all we got. It's not like the you know hair cut as opposed to fair share. Now I think I think I think most people recognize the economic difficulties be setting the state and I think the University of Northern I was been treated equitably in terms of the cuts that we all have to take we have no complaints on that. Dr. Parks you have a lot of where the rivalry between I was State University law and the basketball court. What about on the budget. There's I would on a whole get to hell with the University of Iowa. No no never. I'm not I'm not that guy I think really you know I think the Board of Regents is a first place coming back to your original proposition. These three universities are much more cooperative than they are competitive. And I think people in for size of competition often times when they should be emphasizing

cooperated. But coming back to original proposition I think our Board of Regents composed of nine very good men and women very fair in their outlook toward all three universities. Gentleman can we afford more in this state. Dr. Friedman I'm thinking specifically in terms of efforts to maybe cap or limit enrollment. You guys have been starving for a long time you say. All right. But nevertheless we keep hearing this hue and cry that quality is going down there where we don't have enough room for students and some ideas have been suggested to to deal with that problem. Should we number one impose stronger competency tests on students when they come in. Or number two should we simply charge more intuition. Dr. Friedman I think one of the great strengths of this country as well as the state has been open access to public universities. We can't afford it can we. I think if we can't afford that we're going to find ourselves very much in trouble we have maintained open access for qualified students in this state. We're maintaining it today. Now in terms of asking for higher

competency for students who are entering the university our College of Liberal Arts did raise its standards for this coming fall class. They will be somewhat higher as you know I am a strong advocate of foreign language competency and I would hope that we are able slowly to move to a day in which we're able to get stronger competency there as well as in mathematics as well as in science instruction before students enter the university. But I'd be very much opposed to a cap on Rome and when I think we're almost at the peak of that and I think within two years if not one we'll begin to see the enrollment in the universities level off to more manageable levels. Dr. Parks You know I agree very much with President Friedman's philosophy here I operate out of a populous progressive kind of belief I think the land grant institutions of which I was state is one. What was the moral act of nineteen eight hundred sixty two was undoubtedly the most impressive forward step that this nation has ever taken which gives higher education makes it available in all states and I think this is a very important

concept to keep alive the access of those who are capable of going to school and prison for even I'm sure Pres. Curry's will turn a lot of handsprings to make this possible. We do limit one thing it may not be understood by everybody is that we do not have complete open access to start with we are obligated under the admission standards of all three schools to take only the upper half of the graduating class from Mile High Schools and we impose tougher standards on out-of-state or so no one should get the notion that we're not selective and believe me the upper half of the Iowa graduates are very good I would hate not to. I would rather them suffer an awful lot of inconvenience than to not have the opportunity to go to I will Dr. Chris do you do too good a job then if it's really far you were are you trying too hard to be maybe. Maybe the legislature would be more receptive if you actually closed a few doors or said we can't take any more people or took some dramatic steps because on the one hand you say gee we need more money and life is real tough. And yet you know the

diplomas still keep getting handed out and the doors are open. Are you doing too good a job. I don't know of any university can really say it's doing too good a job. I would I would entertain the possibility of restricted admissions if that proves necessary. I think it's a highly competitive world. I think we owe a great deal to the students who come to our universities to make sure they receive a quality education. And if we come to a point where we see their quality slipping. I would much rather limit the number of students who receive it than to allow all the education you were to join on what Dr. Carson is the quality of the problem might be getting back to a lower level and university had noted I were used to be known as the State Teacher's College. Is there too little emphasis on the training of good teachers today to provide the kind of students that you ought to be getting to university.

I don't think that's the case I think the teaching profession is in the degree in the public schools is really become come under attack from the president and others which I think somewhat unfair to the public schools respond to what society wants. And we left the most movement of the late 50s to strengthen the competency of students and the public schools were asked to address the egalitarian issues of equal rights of integration of the Great Society. What what the criticism is today is that the schools have succeeded in doing what they were asked to do. If I think that the critical ingredient in education whether a public school or higher education is expectations. But Dr. Kearse I can remember something that Howard Bowen used to say when he was president of the University of Iowa and that was that he should pay who benefits there was if you benefit you should pay the cost of it. Well at a time when we don't have a whole lot of jobs in this state shouldn't tuitions be raised simply because the taxpayers of the state aren't

really benefiting that much by students who are educated here and then leave. I think you've you've mixed a couple of thoughts there and I want to dissect I mean I don't relate much. Go ahead. No I really don't think so I think first of all we do charge a hefty tuition in the state and there are many students who experience serious financial problems attending. I don't want to see financial barriers I don't think my colleagues do either. Finding the appropriate balance is critical. And this year where there is a hefty tuition increase I hope we don't see others in that realm. With reference to students leaving the state if they leave the state they leave because of economic opportunities elsewhere that are not present here. And the question is is education and investment. And I think it's a critical part of the investment in the future of this state and expanding in that verse of finance economy. Dr. Parks are students big despite your open admission. I had a chance to go to Yale University or the others because of financial

hardship because of the cutbacks in the student loans and diet and I hope that isn't true but I suspect it is become very difficult for some students and I was State student financial aid sources shape up this way 76 percent of the financial aid for students comes from the federal government 12 percent from state and tuition and 12 percent from private. We're trying to increase that private support through our excellence in the 80s campaign. But the sum total is we depend upon the federal government for financial aid for students. And this there's no there's no question about it has been receiving for example the Pell Grant which is far more lasting power is found in families was eighteen hundred dollars. It was in 1980. Now it's only nineteen hundred dollars and the cost of education gone up 42 percent. So you see and the people who are in upper middle class or upper middle class or just don't have available student loans anymore so it's become much tougher and we have as Dana said we've raised tuition twenty five and a half percent for instructors for next year

that's a hefty increase. So I'm worried about this. Dr. Friedman with the money wherever it comes from there seems to be a perception in the public and actually flecked the good the legislature that you all don't necessarily spend the money as efficiently as you should. And while you by I have some good answers today think that the perception is still there. One has to do with athletics of course the typical voter seems to be a little bit skeptical of your cry about how you need more money when he sees all the fluence of the athletic department. Now to be sure you will argue that these are two separate fund you but how do you address that that complaint by the public. I think the most important way to address that complaint is to say two things The first is that we have always demanded that the athletic program be self-supporting. These are years in which our athletic teams have been relatively successful and therefore found it easier to do to support themselves than they did in the two decades before. I mean 1980 or so. But we have asked that athletics be self-supporting and athletics has become

virtually self-supporting. The second thing is that I think it is essential that a university such as ours maintain a proper balance between its academic programs and its athletic programs and we are trying very hard to make certain that we move ahead on both fronts but we do so in a way that is proportionate and balanced you know if you have a problem and balancing the goals of Excellence at the university with with the growing emphasis on athletics by well I'm not sure it's a question of balance John it's I think just to take one segment look at I think intercollegiate athletics is very close to being out of control nationally. And I'm sorry about this it isn't the same thing it used to be and I know my school. Is not all the way white on this we go big breath logic's also but it actually this disturbs me. I'm not sure that it affects them. The other side that much so I and what has happened it seems to me that the two things are living in separate worlds and this does bother me a little.

Neither side did it as a small school like like you and I which isn't necessarily getting all those headlines getting into the final four and that sort of thing that is you know suffered because of that. Less of an emphasis on the last succession athletic. Well I think athletics gives visibility and that's one of the great assets of having a strong athletic program. We try to keep the program in balance and we're comfortable with our program. Dr. Friedman One other example of some question that has come up about ways to the legislature's been used but several hundred thousand dollars there are remodeling projects offices. It's been rather controversial. Why the time for Things are so tight. You have money for remodeling. We have David is an obligation to preserve a physical plant which is very extensive. We also have an obligation to make certain we have adequate facilities for our faculty our students and our administrators. We're trying to meet that obligation through ongoing remodeling projects. We've recently done the home economics department. We've done the sociology department. We've done a good part of the College of Business Administration and we have done an administrative suite of 11 offices

and a conference room. Dr. Parks is there duplications at the three state universities that can be eliminated I know you have similar to the arguments why aren't why isn't that being eliminated as a way to save money or versity simply protecting some turf here. Well let's back up a minute I think it is less guilty of the charge of duplication of our expensive professional graduate programs in any state that I know of. And this is due to the fact we've had a common Board of Regents since the early part of the century. For example this state has only one medical school one law school one school pharmacy one school in nursing one School of Veterinary Medicine one of the large engineering schools of journalism and you will recall arts program I think in every school is going to be respectable has to have a good liberal arts program take MIT for example which is known as a technical scientific school par excellence as a great philosophy department. And the reason it does is that every technological advance raises huge and fundamental philosophical problems I think the day is past when any good technical school shouldn't have to have a good liberal

arts program not engineering. That's always pointed to and I suppose if we started over again we might only have one school but at the present I think they're both very justified it seems to me the big the big school in terms of numbers of names but I would say they have a good smaller engineering school and it is well integrated with the rest of their academic program. Dr. Curtis You're the new guy on the block here. Do you see any duplication in this system that could be eliminated to save money and maybe do a better job with less. You know we look at the duplications you know why would you need to be in other states acting from a state that had three law schools two medical schools two dental schools to pharmacy schools and five agricultural schools. Thank heavens for that. Dr. Park while ago I would add to the fact that there was a great degree of cooperation among the three of you and among the things go could could we build on that cooperation and have an even more closely integrated one university system where with the three branches or maybe more

branches if you want to begin in the colleges that is some attainment of additional efficiency to be gotten in that direction I'd like to you'd have to go around. I think I think we can do more. I think we are I think in difficult times you have a specific proposal that you know I don't have a specific proposal but I would just refer to one that's being considered by the librarians that are three institutions and that is to have a central depository. For older books that would in essence cut down on costs on all three campuses that we cooperate in that respect we were cooperate with respect to continuing education for adults. I do think though that one important thing about Iowa one wonderful thing about Iowa is that there are three distinctive universities which provide alternatives to students depending on the size of the university they want. Particular kinds of embassies in an academic curricula that they want and that that's a very valuable thing. Dr. Parks what I think is trying to get at is we've got three State

University is we have area colleges that are governed by the Department of Public Instruction we have private colleges now isn't there a little a little room for a little more coordination and illumination duplications and but you have to give up a little turf. Well I don't think we've ever reached perfection quite in our governor's program but I can tell you you are that is are not I suggest is much worse than it is than the disease in my ward. You bet there are quite a few states who that would involve eliminating the regents say in the department. Now some more time as it does sometimes it doesn't but if you remedy which is sometimes suggested is it to be a super board over the border regions and the Parks Department of Public Instruction with a chancellor and a whole array of vice presidents and I think this is very bad business. So many states have done this but it's a very expensive unnecessary piece of bureaucracy superstructure. And I'm awfully glad we don't have it as Jim has indicated this is a wonderful state in some ways and it's easy to do things each institution has enough autonomy although reports of the

same board that you can do things you can adjust to change much more rapidly and at less cost and if you went through a superstructure some other states have had to close to your university and I was city. Would it be an advantage. First of all to the parent of the student whose hide past send the kid to college if say they se in community college at Burlington were actually integrated with the University of Iowa as far as his liberal arts program that was part of your university could draw on your faculty and then what would would what that kind of integration would be. Well I think it's a question of how thin you want to stretch faculty in terms of where they devote their efforts. We of course try very hard to integrate our curricular requirements with those of the area schools as the other institutions do so that students may transfer after the completion of two years and get a degree from any one of our three universities. Dr. Parks with.

Is there room there perhaps for for some coordination more with Eric Oh I think that yes I think that is a very good area for us to move into more and more than we have in the past I think articulation with our community colleges and with the high schools so that we. A lot more can be done with that and we've done in the past. We have worked with community colleges quite a bit on programs for example which are designed from the beginning to give the first two years and those community colleges and then feed into one of our professional schools for example I think we they would like for us to do more of that and I think we certainly should not going to jump to another subject. But still on the overall role of the university down and I was city as I understand it there's student senate suing you or threatening to get some information regarding if Defense Department research projects now are you doing research for the Pentagon and if you are white Why can't the public know about it.

We are doing research for agencies that the military establishment in the public can know about it. People should understand that research that is commissioned by the Department of the army or the Department of the Navy involves the writing of military history. It involves the discovery of cures for disease that occur and various parts of the world. It involves how do you keep ice out of river beds and harbors where ships have to be. We do no weapons research at the university but we do have faculty members whose scholarship is supported by the Department of the Army the Department of the Navy. That is a matter of public record and anyone who wants to see any number of records of any member of the faculty who has military grants the amount in which they have them the title of the project and an abstract of the project a description of the project is entitled under our rules to do so. The park is it a proper role for a university. To be involved with the military and your university still involved. Well yes Jim has stated the situation for us well too. We do have research which is sponsored by the Department of

Defense DOJ and it's almost impossible not to have if you are engaged in certain areas of scientific and technological activity because a part of the National ministration program has been to transfer an awful lot of those funds which used to come out of other agencies to the Department of Defense and we have no classified research on our campus. We have to do some work for the for the defense. Ok ok when you say it's impossible to impossible not to be has too strong I mean if you do the kind of research we have done in the past some of it is now sponsored by Dio do I want to put another way Doc trouble you the all pervasiveness of the military in the United States as it evolves the universities and perhaps nearly everything else in our life. It's just trouble you as a scholar. It does not trouble me as a scholar. I you know I think there's abuses and abuse can occur anywhere. And I think you have people in Washington as well as your people in Iowa that are attuned to avoid abuse

that I'm not aware of it and I would want to question the use of all pervasive that you know of the University of Iowa received 67 million dollars in federal grants a very small percentage of that is from a video d most of it is from the National Science Foundation National Institutes of Health and other Department of Education other federal agencies. But Mike raises a larger point and that is are we getting away from some of the story purposes that a university has been I mean we have seen criticism here recently that you all are competing with private enterprise. We have to build an indoor practice facility and I was city. We have to take care of the military needs. Dr. Parks are we getting away from the story purposes that our universities have and maybe should serve. Well you've mixed several things in there together. I mean cooperating with business and building athletic facilities are not quite the same thing but I think that in terms of our university the land grant university was always there to be cooperative and concerned toward helping people where they live and where they work extension research has always been a

part of our mission and present. Jim here gave a very good analogy a very good figure of speech when he appeared at a seminar we all just made and break when he said that there's business on this side in the university on the side but there should be a bridge and other bridges no good if it acts as a moat. We've got to meet each other on the bridge and work together at the same time protecting our academic integrity and this can be done. Dr. Friedman what do you think. Getting away from something of historic purpose is a little bit I don't think we're getting away from our historic purposes at all indeed if you came to our campus and saw the research that is being done on the odes of Horace and the philosophy of it in saying and I could go on and on and see the historic services being being followed by a faculty enviro student Dr. Curtis in the brief amount of time we have left and I'd like to try to get to each one of you. What do you think your institution will look like in 10 years. What can we see looking down the road in the future. I think it'll be an institution where they'll be a greater emphasis on quality teaching and on the educational experience of students. I think you'll also see an institution that will put more emphasis on interdisciplinary studies and

effort to prepare students to live in the 21st century a century that's going to be characterized by a shrinking globe and great a great deal of economic interdependence. Dr. Friedman I think will be an institution in which there is a greater emphasis upon the liberal arts is the outstanding vehicle for preparing students for a life of change I think will be an institution which there is greater emphasis upon international education and preparing students for a world in which they are going to have to live as citizens rather than just a country or a state. Dr. Parks I don't think you'll see any particular change really in the fundamental missions of Iowa State University would you always been teaching resident or trucks in research and extension the methods by which you do this and the varying emphasis which each one will receive I'm just not right enough to see 10 years from now. On that note gentlemen we're out of time. Thank you for being with us James Freedman Robert Parkes and Constantine Curtis. That's all for this week. Dean Moore will be back next Sunday evening at 7:00 with another edition of

wild press. Until then for John McCormack. I'm David Epps and goodnight you. Major funding for Iowa press was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television. Why. If I were Press show 11:27 to 415 any for.

Oh. Major funding for this program was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television in. January night when the gavel fell opening this year's session of the aisle with General Assembly and Iowa lawmakers were faced with plans for creating a World Trade Center equalizing salaries for comparable work and balancing the state budget. That was in danger of sliding into the red. Today after nearly 13 weeks of debate the week what we can do is see hearings and meetings. Those issues are unresolved.

And tempers have started to fly to minority party votes tonight for the governor's proposal to expand jobs and create economic development in this state. Where is the governor's response. Is the action he promised the people of Iowa at least can claim on the bill. If we're going to be on the point of personal sentiments of personal privilege I rather remember the beginning of the session when we all took a pledge a working together walking arm in arm solving our problems together. What happened. What happened to those promises. A. This is I will cross a weekly news interview program for Sunday April 15th

this week. The final days of the Iowa legislature. Here is Dean Borg. Good evening it's ending as it always does late night sessions with tempers fly admits charges of partisanship and game playing. That's typical that's politics and that's the Iowa legislature. All of the process in the final days will emerge a host of measures and a host of maybes. Maybe a World Trade Center maybe an increase in sales tax for soft drinks maybe funding increases or cutbacks for state government programs. The question at this stage is which ideas are dead and which ones are still alive. There's no question in my mind the last bill that we would see would be some of the major appropriation bills service appropriation bill comparable worth. It would be one of those. If it's still alive. That's the view of the Senate majority leader. We'll see if his prognosis is shared this week by the speaker of the aisle house and minority leader of the aisle with Senate.

Questioning them on this week's edition of I will press our political reporter for The Des Moines Register and legislative reporter for the Cedar Rapids Gazette. Mr. Speaker. I think it's. 90 percent gone. If the Senate revive some kind of funding mechanism we will take it up. We've tried three times now to pass funding for the World Trade Center field all three times because the concept that started as a bipartisan concept became not a partisan concept during the debate. Senator what are its chances in the Senate. Well in the Senate we'd like to have in order to take a shot at anything on the funding on it. We did pass a bill that they shot down 30 to zero the other night we passed it rather 38 38 vote. In a way talks when the speaker talks about to do something and it's difficult to try to form something that. Conjunction it will

pass and we're going to have to get together and work something out or it will be dead. There's a speaker I recall after the governor vetoed the lottery bill. You said that Trade Center was dead unless he came with another plan. And yet at the same time we find that the majority leader in the house was working on a plan. When he got up your sleeve now that you're not telling us about. Well first of all the Trade Center is was will be an important there's narra concept all of us check time too early on. I felt that it was important for I will send it all to myself. Both are enthusiastic for. The World Trade Center a focus of economic development in the state. After saying those things with the veto of the lottery and the anger and frustration went away. We decided to take another run at it simply because it is that important. It wouldn't. Represent all jargons would've worked on a funding concept for four months if it hadn't been important and still is.

We consider a decision of the runout of who is we know the House leadership tried to revive it again. Approximately a week ago on failed twice and and and passing it it simply wasn't sold very well across the state. So you are not working on. Another plan I mean there isn't another nor one plan floating around up there are there are there are no more plans all the circuit breakers were Mr. Speaker. Why did you do that and why did you say on the one hand oh we're not going to do anything unless a governor comes with a plan of you or do you even want to play that card so close the governor did not come with a plan. The governor kept insisting that he had sent his funding mechanism up even though we told him three months ago that that wasn't going to pass in the Senate. And secondly that it was if it did would be used for our general fund balance it was important. At times you've got to put those short sighted kind of statements behind you and we have important concepts we tried a second time a moment ago a senator hold it as I'm wondering if the Republicans have been included in the Senate Republicans have any ideas on how to save

the World Trade Center for the governor. The whole ballgame on the World Trade Center the funding of it as I mentioned earlier we passed a bill that said how to be set up managed and the thing which is a bill they were putting a funding mechanism on. The funding at that point was in the house until this is resolved last Thursday night. We didn't know what was going to happen and we didn't want to walk out there Friday and I imagine when we get back in Iran warning We'll take a strong look to see if there is any other way to do it any other vehicle because I think that's been reconsidered and has been defeated again so you know that Bill basically is dead it have to start over. When you go home and talk to your constituents do you sense any great groundswell for this or is this something that the legislature and the executive branch are going to have to leave. It really isn't around the state. There's no doubt we're going to have to lead it from you go back to January when we came in here. What's a World Trade Center we don't want it. Now it's got

the fact we think a World Trade Center is a good idea but we don't want state funding it we don't want a tax increase for it and it's coming around to that point. Now that they understand the World Trade Center it is the people that have taken the time to understand it have no problems with it. It's just how you fund it was it was poorly sold across the state. I think there was the same kind of reaction to the World Trade Center kind of a parochial reaction. That took place only front of the Capitol hundred years ago people wondered why it had to be in Des Moines they wondered why it had to cost the state that much money. And we did come to that conclusion that we are not going to pass a World Trade Center out of this general fund budget. We're going to have to find a special source of revenue. Does that does not tax average I want and that didn't get didn't get the bipartisan support we needed to get it together. Twenty six of your fellow Democrats voted against you and on majority leader in Orlando in the normal plan what does that say about your leadership ability. Well it says that the World Trade Center is a is again a very risky

and questionable concept as far as the people of the state. And the other more important factor was. We got 36 votes for it and only two Republicans to support it. With 13 more Republicans it was passed. I don't want to cast a numbers game. Or throw those around because I frankly have don't have those numbers in from the who vote or not but I think one of the most important things that came out of that vote last Thursday night was a. Real strong political sense in the political differences and splits in the house that may carry on over in the Senate and we get try to shut down when you have the tempers flying and the anger and the accusations and that doesn't mean well for anything and everybody at this point I think that's outside of the World Trade Center going down to the ramifications of that vote could be greater in the ensuing weeks going a couple other things. First of all that's the first piece of legislation I've ever been involved with that's failed to pass the House ever in 12 years. And the day before that

we took up the second try the governor so you no longer wanted to. That did not help us was just Speaker you say this thing was poorly sold. But were you poorly leading. You know that the the gestation period for major issues and ideas in this state in the legislatures use a couple of years and you guys roll out this northern plan which is a major. New concept and expect people to pass it in the space of less than a week and not a little bit. Question the leadership on your part. That's not the World Trade Center had been. You are right there is a gestation period on major legislation and it is that last at least one year. We tried to do this in three months because the major private sector backed backer said it had to be passed this year which we don't need any at all out of time until a few days before you want to know a funding mechanism. The funding that you know of the plan the Norland plan for capital development and funding came out near the end because the number one funding plan I want to get back to this. The number one funding plan that we said we

would use to appropriate 30 million dollars from was vetoed by the governor. Plan A was vetoed by the governor. Plan B was something that we came with because plan A was gone. Cal Holden you want to jump in there. Say something I was going to say. Dave when we mention this thing is private plans that's probably one of the problems with with the World Trade Center that everybody out once they grab the concept I want to say you know make it their idea and went ahead with it. Now the governor came through and had in his proposal in general and gave us his budget address and and he had that worked in with 5 million from the storage ability and the gas tax and the transfers and take it out of the ending balance and that didn't go. Then his plan came up and at one juncture the Senate Democrats had another plan and I don't know if that I know we got a little start we passed our plan. The alternative the governor's lobbyist called me the week before the session and said here's our funding plan I said that's the dumbest plan of referred your time on concept with an unpopular tax increase. He won't go and it didn't go so we have

has an alternative passing lottery which had bipartisan support in both houses. Just trying to get back to into perspective on you know on the. The different plans are actually a b c and d on funding of the World Trade Center. But what I'm getting at is it looks like there's plenty of finger pointing to go around here you can't you say you passed the lottery you darned well the gov didn't want to take David we came in with a bipartisan proposal. And as long as you remain bipartisan we had a chance. The lottery is a funding source passed in a bipartisan way with Republicans and Democrats the House and Senate pass and the governor vetoed that. The next shot was a was a much more partisan approach to the proposal and the day before we took up the last attempt the governor of the city no longer wanted so to home and I wonder if the process doesn't really work. The last poll that I saw showed the people of Iowa didn't want this trade center and despite John Ruan and the governor and a whole bunch of new leaders there still isn't a World Trade Center.

Is that is the legislature really listening to public opinion here this time. I think I think you have. A. Delegate in the house. When you talk about public opinion gestation pray to go back to what you're saying I think if you give it another year if that would have been if we would have had the luxury of time you go back to that was introduced and brought public roughly I think the Friday before the money women went in. And it was that you know there was no period of time to bring people and a lot of money or stand whatever was in the midst of when we were actually debating a thing that was still going on explaining what it was and he had for a matter of fact is it is fighting it tooth and toenail it often wondered what would happen if we change a name and say it's going to be the World Trade Center in Cedar Rapids and see how quickly he would pick up that support. So you've got you've got those kinds of problems the frank thing of it is wants of public sinks in. You go out and explain the Trade Center there's no problem with it it's just the gestation period for the public is not there or has

not gone by the time I wasn't calling it a duty to wrap up the response of the Cedar Rapids Gazette. That's to wrap up this line of questioning. Mr. Speaker the Trade Center is dead don't Democrats run the risk of leaving here without doing anything to create jobs. The recession of the Trade Center is not the story of the 70s general somewhere by a long shot the Trade Center was a bipartisan proposal that came in late this year. I want to thank you really just three days before the session ended. Began this year and it got parsons it failed. We have turned every rock every leaf to find ways to find jobs for violence to improve the economic climate in the state. When called the best legislature for small businesses in the history General Assembly we are starting an economic development package in the House which has always been part of our agenda. One and Two are starting a World Trade Organization which I hope. Is at least considered before the session is over which is an alternative in

order to find markets and products rather than building a building we we identify a market so that our products and develop an organization around that hope to build building later on. So we are coming with the two. Additionally can we do what else is in that economic development package. We're looking at interest by now with with escrow accounts real estate escrow accounts of paying for a permanent interest by the house for new homes and mortgages we're looking into the form of. Title insurance which isn't really title insurance but which kids buy in the secondary market therefore providing more capital in the state we're looking at Port Authority we're looking at a number of other areas to try to improve the hold and that is all that going to find favor in the Senate. You know this is what just drives me to distraction and that really bothers me. As you mentioned this 70th General Assembly we came in here a year ago last January and here we are we're going to adjourn Thursday we have four legislative days before us and that bill

came out of the Finance Committee which means my members in the house my members of the Senate no member of Senate will have an idea or a glimpse to look at that until Monday morning three days before we adjourn. And that's a massive piece of legislation. We talk about that it also talks about investment of Viper's funds rate take 5 percent of that investment capital. You know the title on that and you're not even talking full sentence just subject matter and there's over a page long or that it is just so you understand that bill long with an oral and funny plan that came last week came about because of the frustration over funding a World Trade Center and finding the votes were something by going to respond it has nothing to do with all of the uprising that's all you understand. Understand that that's all a result of the interest that was created by the World Trade Center and spinoffs just came from the you can't tell me you want to reorganize the barbaric culture out of the information service and everything else because it was going off last Thursday night and were already let me interrupt let me interrupt just to ask a question that really speaks to what's going on right here and Roger Holder is and I think he enunciated that on the House floor he said what happened to the spirit of cooperation between the Democrats and

Republicans on the World Trade Organization bill that we're talking about as head clip grants of the governor's uncle involved from day one. That's what I don't get off on one segment of it I can talk about one segment of it too but that's a major major piece of legislation. Major that will get absolutely no committee work absolutely no committee work in the Senate if you positively pass that to us tomorrow. First thing in the morning means we will get himself some time today to go out to committee on Tuesday come out Tuesday night and we're working out the next to last the last day we're in session and that's just not good legislation a good way do believe Mr. Speaker. You ducked the question. What has happened to the spirit of cooperation. I don't think we were lost the spirit of cooperation again. This is a bill operative attitude we're seeing out of your head and Hoffman is complaining about his had Republicans involved with it from day one they've been part of what has it been from day one. They want us tomorrow when the Senate is a little slow in grabbing things in or stand there and the Senate exists.

How is the White House along with know exactly what they're doing. I thought I was my great aunt and I how much I get on a copper worth and another major piece of legislation has been drafted yet. I'll get to that minute in the house we have involved Republicans and in major legislation from the very beginning of the session two years ago and I am and I just I resent the implication somehow that we have for the first time speaker whatever the best of us concern that you're home and when you assess Governor Branstad performance with this session this session where you take the politics out of it and everything it all she's trying to done I think in that down I'm sure will jump right up and say I'm absolutely wrong but I think the governor has bent over backwards in trying to communicate and cooperate with us and if you could take the politics out of it I think he's done his best to try to get along but it's been a highly. Political censor session I think in 12 years I've been here it's been the most political scene and everything I've said is taken off or taken one way and when I when I for

example told him that I was not going to vote for one of his nominees Oh some people are trying to make that in a political sense and I'm going to go out after him or something which was not the case at all. You know it's just a political session. Take that out from the side of the Governor Branstad has done his best to try to work with and cooperate with us and my caucus at times feels he's going too far to try to cooperate with Democrats senator have the Republicans done a good job of supporting him up stairs such as on the train. Well and again you're probably talking to the wrong leader of the wrong house. I think we have tried as much as we can to support him and any. Issues that come along to someone again. Some white people think that he's gone too far to try to cooperate with the Democrats and I'm not supporting what about you Senator home and I'm thinking of the whole it's nomination for jobs service you kill that I don't say oh well you did when that minority leader won't support the guy.

The Democrats abandoned him very quickly. I'm thinking you know when Senator junctions called the governor a liar on the floor of the Senate there wasn't one Republican who got up to him or defended that now and I want to say about Republicans supporting their own governor. It says one thing it says one thing that I was off the floor at that time in another meeting and didn't get back in time to respond with 21 other Republicans so I had to go and it goes back to the point that there were a lot of them that came to me afterwards and said we didn't know who was going to talk and I should have been I'll take full responsibility for not being on the floor as it was a Monday morning and I was actually an hour late getting into the station that morning or I would have for you to criticize a selection of polish before the general even had a hearing before the Senate before you even had a chance to lay out his qualifications. Yes in the fact that my basic I was not critical of individual or his ministry of ability. It was very clear and very evident by his own admission by the governor's office and

everybody's mission that he did not and my criticism was an objection was that he did not have any background you know unemployment insurance compensation or in the jobs area at all. As far as anything that the job services and I feel very strongly that if you're going to be the best administrator in the world but if you don't have any idea what program it was that you're mistreating you're not very effective. And that's a point I was in. I have no problems with the man as an individual. Speaker I want to move on to some of the other issues that are facing you in the closing days of the session. Last week the governor vetoed a drunk driving bill that victims reparation fund. And I seem to recall that the whole trouble with the Democratic legislature started last year when he vetoed some of your jobs bills. I wonder what does his veto last week do for the prospects of passage of tough drunk driving legislation that he's asked for. Want to jump right up now.

Hold on suggested and say that I think that the governor's leadership is claps with the legislature this cooperation is collapse of the legislature that his vision for what the legislative process is about is has gone away. He's got to decide whether he's going to go north or south he's going to either play in that inside the legislature or play barber a game he tries to do both. And and we're simply going to cut him out if you can do that just a little bit further. Labrie would propose is his agenda and then walk away from it basically for the rest of the session. Terry Branstad has proposed an agenda and then wanted to play it inside he was a very good legislator when he was here and he shouldn't try to plan here I think he'd be a better Bob Rae kind of guy to say he's too heavily Lobley lives in and out around the state beating up in the General Assembly prior to the General Assembly receiving his bills he's gotten involved in things he's his eat and he's been consistently inconsistent with us last week he turned around a two measures you turn around in his major budget proposal and he turned around the World Trade Center and said he didn't want to be the one anymore and then the next day he vetoed the victim

reparations fund which will cause serious problems for his drunk driving below the House passed a very tough drunk driving bill and we want to want to see it passed but this veto will do serious damage with the senators and they've got to get back to the point to veto the pointed reason to veto it was that it did earmark funds and put them into a special fund that's been traditional to don't like earmarks or setting up of separate funds and. Need to damage the drug therapy earlier this year. Mr. Speaker the House spent three weeks debating teacher certification. Do you plan to get that version back from the Senate that's sort of been watered as along with some other school issues. Labor Day I hadn't asked him if we're going to get it back here is the motion. You've got it back and it's not watered our intentions are intentions would be to add another public member to the board and send it back to the Senate. Hope so sent to the governor the only hang up on teacher certification is just the board. As far as I'm concerned we need to do one little corrective measure in there and that said one public member of

the Senate back to Cal doesn't agree with that. I can't believe that anybody that voted for the teacher dismissal bill last year that feel strongly on teacher dismissal all the time again that the governor vetoed which was a strong proponent of none of these people would be caught dead voting for that bill. You talk about something that's passed because it's got a number to it. Without overlooking the content that's a classic example that's a major first step toward improving the quality of education. Absolutely but that does not improve you have to take us on to another issue. Senator Hartmann the Senate committee last week brought out a bill that. Raising the cap rate what that effectively does is raise property taxes for. Urban residential property by shifting it off of farmland as I build in a pass to the full Senate. We just care of some deals or no I don't think it's taken care deals or something. Frankly it's one of those sayings it's a sensitive issue again that I think should have been taken care

of a number of years ago when on land productivity itself. And at that point we established the Kappas ation rate of 7 flat 7 percent and at that time the interest rates were 8 and a quarter 8 1/2 percent like Appalachian was basically fair. Oh and interest rates got 13 14 15 percent it's not fair. In order to get away from this situation I wished in a few years ago when we did it I wished we would have gone to the court only plan which had a floating cap rate which allowed it to fluctuate with the interest rates. To answer your question directly yes I would assume it'll be before the Senate Monday or Tuesday. Any outcome at this point I wouldn't predict didn't matter what I want to follow up on that Senator Paul and I both feel it's an important issue. Senator Hoffman as extremely sensitive too sensitive to because of the way that the productivity farm has adversely affected southwest Ohio I think it's important that we that we even if it doesn't pass that we follow up on that. With either an interim major interim study on how productivity formula mixes in Iowa or give specific directions

to the tax committee to actually commit is the motivation for this now the struggling formy collets yammers are in terrible I know but is that the reason for that it's hard to get hit with the increase in violation is when when you've seen droughts and all of these that's a problem that's a real problem to get at least 22 counties and there's some more things much more important things in that bill than just a flat 79 percent. When you start looking at your county by county figures rather than the statewide averages and if it's a major piece of legislation as far as. Taxes We have some other issues to cover Judy. Mr. Speaker two years ago the Supreme Court threw out the way I would settle lawsuits when they're involved in car accidents and other mishaps insurance companies say that system is going to cost stylings millions of dollars in higher premiums but lawyers say it's needed to protect the rights of victims. What are the chances that the legislature this year is going to agree on some modification of what the court did. We're going to agree Monday in the house. We're going to move ahead with with have been agreed to Bill. Most parties

involved the lawyers the insurance people the. Private citizens have said will be good middle ground to move from and past that Monday morning. By the way that's 25 to 30 percent of our log being revised Monday morning. I suggested home and probably want to see that done even though it's the last day in the program without giving you a chance to mention comparable worth earlier. Course that relates to the study that came out during this session where state jobs were studied for equality work and equality of pay. That takes money to rectify that are you going to be able to pass something. Yes well that's another one of the problems that I think that getting back full circle the original questions of this general sense has got to be blocked by one thing. It has taken on problems knock them down and then also taken steps in the right direction for the future. And Forth is one of those problems that we knock down very easily and the funding the Forth will get us into the future as far as eliminate

all of the rest of the by just a few seconds left very quickly. You know if they're going to be smart but one thing of me putting everything off the end. Then you can pick that up in here tonight emitters ask me what it means said with top words is very difficult specially when you tried it out in the collective already it's not easy to do and it's not going to be an easy battle it was like that. One thing is not easy for me to do is to cut off such an interesting discussion but I must thank you very much Kelly Holden and Dani Vinson for being with us this week and I will press. We will be here next week on Easter Sunday but we will the week following with 5th District Representative Tom Harkin who is seeking Roger Jepson seat in the U.S. Senate. Until then for Davie Epson and Judy diamond wire I'm dien board. Thank you for joining us. Have a good week. Yes. I am a AAA

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