Alternatives in Agriculture Call-In; Reel 1

Major funding for this program was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television. Spring planting in Iowa is fast approaching. This year a growing number of farmers will switch from or modified their tried and true methods to try and gain an extra advantage. But what are the alternatives available to farmers and what's involved in making the transition. From new crops to new markets to new methods of management questions and answers on the alternatives tonight. Live. From the studios of Iowa Public Television. The alternatives and angry culture. Carlin. With host Chet Randall. Good evening. Farmers across the aisle are getting ready for spring planting. And for most farmers it's a time for making crucial decisions and choices that will have an impact on the farm right

on through harvest time. Many are considering dramatic changes in the way they farm and what they grow. Now this call in is to help if you're considering changes. So if you have a question about crop rotation or sow conditions if you're wondering if this is the year to plant new crops or lower inputs or if you're just curious to know if there's a market out there for that backyard produce Naza time to call the number to call from anywhere in the state is 1 800 7 to 8 to 8 to 8. We have people waiting for your call so let's hear from you now. The number is 1 800 7 to 8 to 8. Making changes on the farm can be a tricky proposition but there's a growing interest in farm country on improving profits and improving the margins by cutting costs and at the same time protecting precious resources. Yeah. The search for alternatives on the farm covers a wide front but for most farmers it boils down to improving the bottom line. The focal point for much of the alternative movement is low input sustainable agriculture which is driven by both environmental and

monetary concerns. USDA research shows that in 1987 herbicides were used on more than 95 percent of corn and soybean acreage and 60 percent of the wheat acreage in the country. Total pesticide use reached an estimated eight hundred twenty million pounds in 1906 from three hundred thirty five million 20 years earlier. One of the reasons for the increased chemical use is that those inputs cost less than labor and farm machinery needed to achieve similar results. Another reason is that alternative production methods often require extra time and expertise and education and information. New management techniques often are lacking. USDA economists a federal commodity programs may encourage the more intensive use of chemicals to increase yields. And as for crop rotation a lack of flexibility in farm programs tends to discourage cropping patterns that many experts feel benefit the soil. But farmers researchers and government officials are busy studying the tradeoffs between satisfying environmental and health

concerns and maximizing profits. And a recent conference on low input agriculture was unusual in that it brought chemical interest into the growing public discussion for the first time. Indeed the interest in cutting the use of farm chemicals runs all the way to the White House. President Bush's fiscal 1990 budget proposal includes 64 million dollars to reduce pollution from chemical judgment. Pressure from consumers also is having an impact on the alternative movement. The market for high value locally grown fresh produce is ripe for the picking. Farmers near large urban centers in Massachusetts already are reaping the bounty. Direct marketing from roadside stands and a lucrative business done by local co-ops and with wholesalers also helps such ready made markets are fewer and far between in the more sparsely populated farm belt of the Midwest. But the interest in seeking alternatives is hardly in question. Thousands of farmers turned out at successful farming magazines adapt 100 conference last year to see

firsthand the alternatives available. Indeed as spring planting approaches the search continues for answers to marketing and management questions. And the time for answers is now the number to call to reach our panel of experts on alternatives in agriculture is 1 800 seven to eight to eight to eight. When you call we'd also like to ask you a couple of questions. Once again call now the number to call is 1 800 7 2 8 2 8 2 8 9. While we're waiting for your calls we'll introduce our panel Larry Stadler is director of the Kirkwood college real diversified Enterprise Center which since late 1904 has helped more than 2000 rural families adapt to changes in American agriculture. Welcome. Marc Mayes as a grain and livestock farmer from Will is also on the board of directors of practical farmers of Iowa. Larry Black is an organic grain and livestock farmer from Mt. Pleasant with a unique and effective marketing plan. The nice O'Brien is a dairy farmer from Atlantic who also

uses a portion of a 200 acre farm to grow apples strawberries and raspberries. And Rick Exner is a sauce scientist with the extension service who is working on his Ph.D. in soil fertility at Iowa State University. They'll be here for the next 90 minutes to answer your questions on alternatives in agriculture. So if you have a question get on the phone. Again the number to call 1 800 7 to 8 to 8 to 8. Marc Mayes let me ask you a question to start right off here. You're going to stay in the corn program I think you've tried no to what you don't use a spring. Chad I've I've made a transition to Ridgeville system in the past two years. Why's that. A lot of it's due to an economic reason particularly. I've found that I can reduce my chemical and herbicide Bill substantially by changing to a system like this. And in the future my plans are to eliminate the herbicide use altogether. But right now you're just cutting back and not going all the way. Exactly. In the past year I've reduced my herbicide bill by 60 percent.

You're playing it safe. Yes. OK let's check in with Larry black. Larry you have found a market for your beef haven't you. That's right Chet. We've been marking and beef in a store up and I was sitting. It's been from a frozen meat product to a fresh carcass of meat now so we have a lot more going to man for fresh meat on the open market. A lot of folks are talking about value add and you have that. Yes right now that's not something everyone can do though is it. No it's a special thing for some people to get into and there's opening doors all the time for special markets and what you advertise that have you that you don't use the hormones in the additives. That's right. We use organic grains and we don't use any growth hormones or any drugs in the livestock itself so. OK well we'll be interested in the questions that might come to you and I I guess I guess you'd say that you start off small you didn't just jump in fast did you know I started. We started small and we continue to grow of demand. OK Larry Stadler you've been working in this area

of lowering costs and sustainable agriculture in some of those terms that we need to define a little more tonight but are you finding an increasing interest in it or waning interest what do you see. I personally think that it's a lot more fashionable to use the words diversification and alternatives now than it was five or six years ago when we began. And you're one of the first or one of the only or. Well we're busy and that tells me that probably unfortunately there have not been enough places to go to get help and assistance for. Looking at options for different farm families now your full time with Kirkwood Community College. But and so you help from that standpoint but you start a venture of your own have you a little bit since you've been watching this. Well when you get to be grandparents you have to explore a little bit my wife and I have sort of been looking we have five hundred twenty five acres in Iowa county at how some wildlife programs fit in and we do some work with wild game birds and try to make any money at it. Well quite frankly it's it's one to pay

situation and we're looking at how with the habitat and the different crops fit into that. Yeah you should want to pay maybe I'll go to Denny's here because you say pay to pick don't you. Yes. And Denise do you want to tell us how that's working out for you on your strawberries and raspberries. Well for the last seven years we've had a you picket Starbury operation and in the years following that we've introduced raspberries and we have some asparagus very small amount of asparagus and then we're on the verge of production with an 800 orchard 800 tree orchard apple orchard and we've been in a position where our starters have been producing income for us when at a time when other farmers are putting out money for putting in spring crops that's one of the things you worked on is cash flow in fact I think you're one of the few persons that instead of being enduring and getting out you were out of there and got in and I guess you had two or three reasons for that and yes we get into dairying because we do farm with no chemicals and we needed a large manure production for putting that

nutrients back in the soil and the dairy fit properly and with that we had to have generally that etude and right trying to do that day and yes and so and we wanted to raise our children together and we felt adding another. Source of income on the farm would keep us there and the dairy does give you a cash flow. Yes it does here and then let me check in here with Rick and learn a little bit during their well let's say you had a chance to really study what drought means don't you in terms of weed control and in terms of you and using lesser fertilizer and still making a profit. What you learn. Always Sure so what a drought is this year. We found out that we can get along with. Quite a bit fewer inputs in a drought year. The. Question is what do you do in a more normal year. I think we've got some technologies starting to come on stream that will tell us. How to get along in a normal year and what we need in terms of inputs we can talk about some of those technologies. Well maybe we better just see what we have in the way of questions I see all my we do have quite a few

don't well we better get started and we'll see who wants to tackle some of these. Why aren't there enough organic chemicals of the lable. Let me see. I think Larry. I don't believe that. Well I'll let you answer that. There really aren't organic chemicals are there. No I think maybe maybe I could reword the question. Why aren't there enough organic ways to control insects for example and Chad I think that's something that's been being looked into at most of the universities very strong right now from the last reports that I've received. There's going to be more products that are going to be safe to use on insects and I also believe that farmers as we grow in this I think these are marking tools will develop and I think they're already there but we need to tap in where they're at and we're like we've got this during this or that long name is that that was pretty valuable in the in the garden isn't it. Yes. And are we going to get this out in the field in terms of corn and beans or are we going to find genetic engineering gives us some other ways to come at it. Well

I'm not sure on that Jetta. I really would want to stay on that for sure. When I when they're asking here how you know about getting organic chemical Are you the one that is working on getting a definition for what is actually qualified for the organic seal. That's right we've been working on it up here to Wallace Bill in the morning and I believe in July of 89 that the people be of where what they can use and what they can't use here in the state of Iowa. But you're going to have an actual symbol that can be. Say to this and I will. Organic going to be administered is the word I want to say. You're going to have that. That's what we're trying to reach Union focus right now that we're working on. Is there a market for herbs and what herbs would grow best around here. You want to answer that one. I'm not into herbs but I do know that there's a lot in being raised and I would say that if a person wanted to know more about growing herbs in this area and the marketing for they could call frontier

herbs they do have a lot of information to give out to people or let me check with the other Larry here Larry Statler Are you familiar with. Some people have made herbs work for him or not herbal production is one of our more popular programs I don't. Not what you wish to come across as an expert but if you think about it for just a moment as we've gotten more and more concerned about the salts and the diet and some of the sodium problems and whatever it makes a lot of sense as to why the marketplace is really expanding. And there are several. When you think about selecting herbs The question is what really fits into our climate and and where the markets are that can be reached accordingly and I suppose one of the first things you would say is find your market first for your plan and then start looking as that riced least find somebody you can rely on to I've heard many people say you find your market I see Larry shaking his head as well. What about those Japanese mushrooms I'm talking shit talking mushrooms I I heard quite a story on those.

Can everybody raise them but for a few They're pretty good bet aren't they really do up here and I was well the doing was she talking that off the little bad start in some areas of all danger and have really come back and were seen as a very potentially profitable crop and they would do quite well here. Now again we're not figuring that everybody can jump in on something but you know I'm just really interested in how many farmers have found niches and there are just hundreds of niches. And let me Denise this question to you. How can I assure the farmers that alfalfa would be a good case crop. I know you don't do so much for cash you feed it but you find alfalfa good crop. Oh yeah yeah and I think you see in more and more of the farm magazines and that that people are raising alfalfa for cash crop I think you see now in central Iowa we have a horse ration facility that needs a needs a market is a market for for Alfalfa especially a special kind of grass. For example right exactly and and given last year's drought there's I see loads of hay going on the interstate all

the time for Wisconsin and there's it's a very lucrative market. Well I know in Iowa there's a board where you can call on all the western states the pools where you could buy in the southeastern sole right there several associations in Iowa then that have hay sales regularly and I think it's a good way to build in a conservation plan into your farm by having the hay to sell. It. I will have to limit what we can have on the program. I have a special note for Chet. Do you favor buying a soybean put well. We'll let that one slide on by because we are going to deal with alternatives and this one. Let's see I guess maybe we'll go to you on this one maze. What would you recommend as an option to protecting soybeans. Whoops. Oh I'm sorry. There they really did misunderstand here that I thought it was an option as far as chemical use but then maybe I'll still ask you that question even though I think they meant an option on the futures market but what would you suggest as an option to protect So I mean some weed

control obviously probably the main thing as is a mechanical type of cultivation using both a combination of a rotary hoe and an affective cultivator. Would probably be the easiest and first step for anyone that could do Rick Exner let me jump to you how much how many weeds can we stand in a soybean field. You know depends on the weed. But we can stand a lot of weeds early in the season. You can usually leave the weeds to three or four weeks after you plant before you take them out and suffer no loss and yield you doing some good things for the soil by leaving them assuming that you can afford a little bit of moisture loss because they're going to be taking some moisture out of the soil but they're also giving you ground cover. They're keeping the nitrogen out of the ground water and they're improving your soil structure when you do turn them under. Well I've never heard anybody say you ought to leave for three weeks. I said you could or you could I said there are some advantages to doing that if you're not in a tight moisture

situation and you're figuring then that you can get on with the call of it. Well that's the thing you've got you've got to have weeds where you can get in with the cultivator if they're in the row. Well you're in trouble. You know you're going to have to use a post application or use some kind of a planter that's going to make sure that you don't have weeds in the row such as a Ridge Hill plant I reckon you said trouble you're in trouble when you go to the coffee shop too aren't you. You better not go to the coffee shop. But also there is a problem of it happens to be what the next two weeks five weeks when you thought I was going to be just three weeks. Well that's true but if you're or are in between your rows and it's wet you're not so worried about those weeds taking moisture out so when it does dry up get those weeds out in a hurry. Now you know I'm not suggesting that people plant weeds in between the rows but weeds are doing some good things for us in there. And also you know the early weeds

are controlling some of the later weeds which are which are real hard to deal with some of those really weeds aren't so hard to deal with. Let me ask Mark here with Ridge tilling are you throw in some of those weeds into the center of the road where you can get them better later. That's probably the most beneficial thing about a Ridgeville system Chet is that once you go through there with the planner you are essentially then throwing all those weed seeds to the metal and a cultivator will then eliminate them. This is Denise but they didn't happen to catch that name they called you the raspberry lady have you been called that before. OK well this question is for the raspberry lady. Give us the pros and cons on Raspberry production we have a hundred sixty acre Hillside Farm of the formerly was in past year. What is it. Well we've been all successful with a brand called heritage and it's a fall bearing crop that lends itself to easy management. You can mow off the Canes instead of individually pruning canes. If you just want a fall crop if you want to crops a

spring in a fall you have to individually cane but weave with it in the raspberries. We have them in wide rows where we can mow between the rows. And we we irrigate them. We have drip irrigation to the rose. I wouldn't recommend putting 160 acres into the raspberries I mean would you start with. Well we have a quarter of an acre and that's planted her us right now yeah. And we don't pick those you serve you well we pick them ourselves and we have you pick also. But they're a lot easier to pick than strawberries you can stand up straighten and when I ask you do do folks come out and pick or do you know they're going to get stuck up too much. No and actually these heritage brand actually we have a lot. We have education to do with the raspberries because people think that the canes go all the way down and you get scratched up. I picked for eight weeks in the fall and I rarely get a scratch it's they the berries on this variety are very much near the top and you just don't. You don't have the canes like you do with other varieties each problem you have or predator or birds or do whatever. This year we

had a blight happen due to the drought and the particular season that there was it sprang on us like overnight and we were unprepared for that. And now this is our third year of production with raspberries and now we can be prepared for but it was the weather conditions that brought that on and sometimes you just don't have those options to know that sort of thing. Well you went on into asparagus production too is this because so again you can spread out your season as far as writing work and picking yourselves and writing and it's also they're all perennials and except for the strawberries we have to plant the strawberries every other year but it lends itself to a fairly decent management if you have perennials. OK this question maybe I would ask you Larry you'll see here can you market 80 acres of alfalfa I mean can you market alfalfa off 80 acres and pay your bills and survive. I believe that be a little tough and that's almost a loaded question but I guess that I'd say that you should be able to if you look into the marketing aspects first. I don't believe aim they should raise any type of

crop out here and go into it completely without annoying after some marking outlets for it. Now one of the things of course you can get samplers to come in and if you've got a high protein alfalfa that can go to Texas to the dairy production for example you can really get a premium and it's out of the market so maybe there's something along that line. Would you want to add to that Larry. Do you think you could really make it on 80 acres in Iowa not not like the irrigation they have in the basket. You say making it dead of course that there could be some question in my mind there but I think if you think of the economics and some of the high yielding specialty markets 80 acres all you know all produce you could be looking at up close to a thousand ton of alfalfa and some of the higher markets especially markets now I'm seeing a potential living coming off of that for a person is really interested correctly. And of course you would have a lot of machinery would you just have specialized equipment and be it. There's a lot to be said for looking at the cost savings and what what you can get rid of by looking at

some of a lot of the specialty crops or I hope you would get rain on the first cutting. Well. That's. A good point. OK. I'm sorry I just. I'm sorry I got so interested in whether listening the question that I didn't look at I don't quite understand that question. Let me see this. How will the dry weather affect tree crops. Would you recommend planting the seedlings for spring or fall. Let's see. I don't use had Apple experience and let me go back here to Larry first though if I may. Have you had experience with people planting trees for wood lots and wood timber and mistreat and so on. What's the experience been. Well of course any plant like that moisture is still crucial in the seed bed and it was really rough this last year it's not uncommon to find somebody that lost a hundred percent. We like to feel that irrigation will be looked into and I have seen irrigation systems that are very very low cost. And almost crude. Yeah. Denise I know that with your apple crop you have to wait quite a while and just the year

you expected it's either to drier or you to freeze. Well that's why now that's why you're diversified in your granny's evidence. Yeah you can't as they say put all your eggs in one basket or apples in one bushel but what's your take. Well this year was a real tough year and we're not sure yet what the drought has if it's affected these six year old trees and where we've been advised to NOT prone. This spring would be until we know what the clusters are on and on the trees because we might have a limited amount of apple production. And there's this. It is it's kind of disheartening when you go for six years and you're hoping for the the big one the actual start of production and that's the same way with our strivers we did it one year the first year and we didn't know what we would get so we didn't really cashflow it in. The second year we cash loaded in and we had a hailstorm and we were we were wiped out in 20 minutes.

So you're always dealing with nature and that's always beyond our you know. OK let me go back to corn. Mark the question here is what kind of input cost can you do with corn and hurt the crop the least in other words keep up the yield. I know that's kind of a whole evening's discussion but give us your quick answer. Probably the best suggestion I would have to reduce an input substantially would be on the herbicide end of it. If a person can look at going from a broadcast system to a band system you're immediately going to reduce the amount of input cost there. And also it leaves you some more options down the road. Larry black do you have an answer to this which Chinese vegetable products will be in demand and I. Heard anybody talk about it. Do I thing I can think of that would be in demand in a state of violence there's a possibility that we could see for export ing from the state and that would be Azuki beans. And that's a string bean.

And there's going to be a bigger market here in the United States as well as overseas but overseas right now is our biggest market for butter with the drought situation and we had just last year there's a high demand for right now on the open market. We heard an interesting story from Missouri with the hillbilly bean soup people that had 17 beans put together. I think you've done something in specialty or two besides the beef we mentioned what have you done. Well we we've been working for the last few years with Zuki beans which is a small red bean and we've also last year tried some of the black soybeans to see what we could do of them in southeast Iowa. We also raised event in soybean which we market for tofu because it works very good because it has a low fat and high protein. You said you've been trying it what your results. Well so far I'm very early. It's right now I'd say that the vit and soybeans is no problem we can raise them here in Iowa. I'd say if the Zuki beans they have to have more sure to start. And they they don't there's no way they can draw weeds but it sure seems like to me they do Jeff. They

don't shade out the room and that makes quite a difference when you're trying to keep them under control. Let me ask Larry Statler from Kirkwood. Are there loans available to help you start getting into the makers of these specialty crops. Things are changing there. I wish there were more I have a great feeling that there's an inadequate amount of finance available particularly for the person that everybody knows has some higher risk at the beginning but I'm really encouraged with the way that the lenders are beginning to use the link deposit signs in the Department of Agriculture in their beginning loans for for new farmers. It's surprising even how many of the local institutions are beginning to talk really creatively about some maybe not quite as large a loans as we think but I always say many times if you really stress the advantages of many of the alternative crops and the rapid repaying the fact that the inventory turns quickly and you've got a story to sell there and it works.

Let me ask me mark here since you're in practical farmers the question is come in. Is it true farmers are really killing their fields. That question could be more of a double edged sword there I guess. As far as practical farmers is concerned we don't we don't stipulate that anybody is killing anybody's farms or soil but any time you add anything foreign to the soil there's always a question of what it is actually doing to the soil. So I think that is more the question that we try to portray is we need to be taking a little closer look at what types of things that we are actually putting out there. The corn that we put back on the soil we're actually building organic matter aren't exactly the amount of residue a large crop of corn puts back is substantially less positive things you can do for yourself such as a green manure crop. It's going to add life to the soil and increase the biological activity the nutrient

cycling through all those good things. And that's probably a lot more tangible than any harm you might be doing to your soil with a particular brick is that what you find farmers have a lot of interest now and that is how can you build up the microblog and isms of microorganisms in the soil and improve the tills and so on. They're really interested in that. There's a lot of interest in cover crops in particular I think partly because of the farm programs that people are really getting interested in how how can they protect the soil they see the soil moving away. People who have been into it awhile start realizing that there are some of these other benefits such as the water goes into the ground. Larry Statler what type of Forestry crops would be profitable in the next 10 years. Forestry crops you know in 10 years. We do frequently with the forestry crops I might add you mention the Chautauqua mushroom. Don't forget that they need to make you better logs to come out. That's a good companion crop and I'd like somebody else to thank your ferment about forestry. We plug in as more of an intermediate to long

range and oftentimes it'll be seven to 10 years we think the Christmas tree market in Iowa has a long ways to go I'm encouraged about and it's when you say a long ways you mean there's opportunity a lot of opportunity and a lot of creative things it's making it more palatable every day now where all the trees is kind of a long range. Is there is there a poultry that will go like a poplar that is there a market for it. I am unfamiliar with just seconds as anyone else. There is of pulpwood tree one of the things I've done to diversify mild permission was establish a tree a tree farm. Oh it will tell us more. First thing I probably did as I had an area of the farm that wasn't suitable for all crops we all have a lot of savings Exactly so the question then is what are you going to do with that. Excuse me did you have a choice of whether I was going to be cattle or trees. Yeah I had a choice for me there was no choice of cattle because I wasn't in a financial situation for that option. OK there had already been the starting of the tree farm there in the area and all I had

done was continue that work locally with a wildlife biologist in my area of the state and he laid out a complete plan for me over a three year period to establish a combination wildlife habitat and tree farm plantation. So I have a very diversified crop growing there. From the different conifers used for christmas tree to pulpwood as in the hybrid poplars which can be 5 8 inch size trunk for firewood production and also a green ash variety and also then I've gone into hardwood varieties of the Elks and the walnuts and also silver maple then would be a soft wood. Also for firewood production you would be an experienced man by the time you cut those down would you. Well I would hope so. OK Rick the question here. Any research done on inner cropping soybeans or oats in the northern half of violence. I don't know what they're thinking in the level northern half or the more rolling NE but

in the experience they're. Farther north you go the more if you the proposition there's been quite a bit of research done on it in names kind of in the middle of the state there and the indication is as I understand the research that. You better hope for a nice long fall in order to get some beans out of it because otherwise probably be better off sticking with one of those you're talking about double cropping oddly. That's what I thought was it and are cropping up. I don't know well meant by Enter dropping I thought maybe they meant that when you're landing you wrote. Well maybe that's what they meant. OK that's done in Ohio and Indiana and people have good luck with it I did hear one man in the Red River Valley but he was the only man there so that's really up there. But that would be pretty questionable. Would you have any experience on using soybean oil on weed control chemicals. Really you haven't had that and I know there is some but you haven't had that much. Why do the universities not seem to be

doing much research on biological organic type production. Mostly private research do you want to touch on that Rick. Well in the past they really haven't. But I think now if you look at what we're doing in Iowa there's quite a list of what we're doing in biological production if you want to call it that. That means different things to different people but we're looking at a number of ways that farmers can move in the direction of relying more on the internal Riis's sources of their farm such as encouraging the biological activity on their farm going to higher management more skill intensive methods so they have to rely less on purchased inputs from outside there's a lot of work like that going on. Larry black worries that work being done that you follow on research on biological Well the basic work's been just right on the farm and what I've talked with other farmers is what I've done with most of mine but I've noticed a Kirkwood in both frames have been really showing more

interest in what we're trying to achieve. And I'm not sure we know what we're trying to achieve but I see that there's more interest in it or trying to work to see what can be done with the soil. Mark me with practical farmers a lot of it is of farmers visiting with each other at meetings and we're finding that's probably one of the easiest and probably the fastest way a farmer can get good information is that communication line between farmers to farmers OK who's going to take the marketing a walleye or bass from small farms I was hoping we get a question like that. Larry are you ready on that one. I'll try. OK. We really do not necessarily encourage the ponds as the only way to go. I think it's really important to think about our climate and to think about our you say ponds our Are not we do not encourage them is the only way to go I see. We think that some of the research elating system and some of these systems which can be done indoors make a good companion to that there's a lot of discussion and I will right now about what will be the the hybrid that's

going to do it and again I think we will find it will be several species well and bass there is good consumer awareness too. There's not the resistance to what is a tilapia as an example or a baby Coho you know those kinds of things were encouraged and I think you'll find I was state is quite encouraged particularly on the water line there and the hybrid striped bass also we've done a lot of work in the fish area and are quite encouraged about it honestly this far north our trout the possibility trout are definitely a possibility and again with trout We've got almost instinctive desire to go in to eat it we're familiar with trout. Again we're talking here it's good you know people are actually making money at it on the fish. Do I know people that are actually making money at it. Interestingly the fish industry you've got the fishing the breeding the minnows or is that a campaign on in Iowa right now about whether we're going to keep I was minnows and I were import export them and I would not want to say that I'm familiar with people within 50 miles Cedar

Rapids that are that are paying off the family farm with it but the fish program like Kirkwood is one of our most popular areas. Well once again we're not we're not talking about casting everything aside we're just saying maybe here's a little added something. Now this question is about investment credit for machinery purchases in the next year or so on and and what it counts on taxes. Can you add anything to that or not Larry. For the next year. Well they're just asking about investment credit for machinery purchases. It's going to be pretty difficult if you're going to get the benefit the tax benefit there you're probably going to need to couple it with some leasing programs or some of my things and. I'm sorry I didn't I'm not referring to you I'm just my goodness look at that. There is an awful lot of interest in what we're talking about here we've got so many questions we need to kind of move along here. OK this is to our soil scientist over here. Does starter fertilizer have a negative effect on this coming year's crop because of the dry weather. Started wars brutalize this year. I wouldn't think it to have a negative effect would it.

There's some people think that in a dry spring you might get some salt effect from a starter. I see. But. I don't know we didn't see any negative effects from starter last spring and that was about as dry a spring as you're going to see. Let me ask you. I guess we'll we'll try mark on this one what difference is there between narrows soybeans and wide roll beans. You think. Probably the biggest thing there people look in that is it is a yield a positive yield increase by going to a narrower being real. The thing that I personally don't care for is then you become dependent on a chemical to it to control the weeds in the wide rows then you also or at any time up till the closing of the ROE you have the option in a cull of eight. And once you narrow them in to the point you can't even get through them that option is gone. Larry Statler I think you answered this about Christmas trees and

but the specific question is there are beginning to be an overproduction. Some people think there is I personally don't think so I think that there are what we need to do is to think of all the different ways they can be marketed and to and it's them but. That's a personal opinion. Can you answer this question could you grow the vegetable. See you are a b y Cora b a northerner you know what. I'll pass on that when I heard it yes. Larry you have to know I'm not familiar you want to know. Well OK if there is one that. That stumps the experts. Here is I'm sorry this is another question on marketing and while we appreciate that that's mighty important. The special call in is not about marketing and and so I guess that we'll pass on that. You go OK this is for you Mark when you're participating in the federal programs where you have the current base to think about. How do you go about switching to alternative crops

without losing your your base. You're saying you're going to stay in the program this year how you doing it. I'm going to participate in the program for the allowable limits this year. Right now we're looking at probably 80 percent that you can plant soybeans on your corn base. I plan to use that option to the fullest extent. For me I want to introduce more soybeans Anyway into my operation to somewhat split my my acres up more divided Lee. Also you can plant oats this year and in the past years on your corn base acres. I think the emphasis on oats this past year is it's been quite a dramatic change from where it's been in the in the past and for me I have my own operation I've doubled the amount of acres of changed oats and Larry would you add something to that you raise corn beans don't you. Yes I do. I think that I'm caught like on mark on what he's doing here I think you ought to use every open potential you have there and being able to use beans on corn base I think should be done that way. And lest

it depends on each individuals marking it depends on if they've got a feed lot to their female livestock or if they're marking the grain and there's an aspect that you have with cattle and sheep and you eat all you that you raise. We feed all we raised it so you have. It's quite a lot for you get paid and that's all cause when you sell those kids and use but you're able to make a go of it on that. That's right we usually chat market usually oat straw because we don't need a whole lot stronger operation and we usually will market some of our oats because we do not feed them all out and sometimes have a little extra corn that will market but unlike soybeans of course we use them on especially markets where like now the veterans we raise will go to the tofu factory and the others that we raise would go to the wholesaler. Larry you sometimes feel like you're working hard your neighbor who's got a bigger tractor and spends more time in it. Not really Chet I guess I just soon as I would on a spare. Oh I see. To me a person's gotta go out and dig in the soil and see the life in the soil to know what he's doing off farm anyway and I

years ago didn't do that I did a lot of different farming practices that were changed in the years and to me you need to know and understand your soil to know what can be done with cattle and sheep you're tied down a lot more than you were described. That's right but it gives me good exercise or more even I think I need that and also that it gives you more than one option on how you want to market. I like it to where I can market my livestock or I can market my grains and I think that we need to look at more marketing tools instead of relying on one source anymore. Well Denise they called you the raspberry lady not to the Apple Lady. What problems in marketing do you find is there a local resistance by the big chains. How do you find the marketing or have you have you really had a chance to sell that many yet. We haven't experienced that yet but in western Iowa there's been developed in the last two or three years a cooperative and Apple cooperate where we can market our. Apples Now there's never been an apple apple polisher and

greater in the state of Iowa. And this cooperative is is setting this up and the apples will be dumped at the co-op and then marketed to that and people buy shares in the cooperative and and frankly the apple the delicious apple started in Iowa and so now the Apple will be coming you know will be marketed out of Iowa again. And I think we can really compete with those other states that it has been going on all along and we weren't aware of it or is there really new movement in the cooperative marketing. It's it comes and goes and I think that it's successful in some aspects and not successful in others there's a co-operative that's going on in Iowa and I think that people are looking that at alternatives with alternative ways of marketing when they don't have enough of their own produce or product commodity to go in with other people and market it that way. Larry Black The question is on specialty meats and they're talking about USDA Greta grading and being approved packing plants what.

What's the story on OK Chad if they were a market meat in the state of Iowa it will have to be state inspected and sold. If they want to mark it out of the state it will have to go through a federal inspection and. But is that a problem. Not if you want to. There's no problem that because there's approximately probably one hundred twenty federal inspection plants in state I will go so you don't have to go to a big Packer you've got a lot of noble plants that are glad to do your business. That's right and I think one of the things he says here is he'd like to use it in his own concession stand. Does he still have to get it approved. OK now if he's going to use it and market to meet himself and sell direct to consumers as far as a concession stand it should be state inspected. Back to Denise in establishing an orchard. Do you suggest planning to war for semi dwarf trees and what varieties would you plant. Well when I called up the nursery to talk about I wanted to order some dwarf's trees she said well what size and at that point she said they they were of anywhere

from 15 to 30 feet and I had just one you know in mind and so there's a lot of variety in that. I would suggest that. In establish an orchard to add to the varieties of trees you look in the grocery stores which are the most popular varieties we see now. A big market on Granny Smith s and I'm not sure how adept or adaptable they are to Iowa but you should look at the market in the grocery stores the little beans so that by the time the tree's ready you go maybe. Well I think delicious Jonathan those type of apples that have always been those those standard apples I think are your best bets and I think that when you look at the trend it seems to be and again this is a trend would be people are going back to those apples that are like well things that are there are older varieties right either because they're asking cooking or eating apples. Well and you need to have a mix.

If you're going to be doing the cider then you also have to consider the taste of the apples to the cider too. Well we're planning to. Yeah well that's another. Yeah you added. Yeah when wine saps ask about here we mentioned Jonathan's wines at right. We in our orchard are doing delicious both red and yellow delicious and Jonathan and McIntosh and we hash is a nice good tart. And that's a good cooking apple it really is and people they're good size and people are looking for those kinds so you have to take all of those aspects into consideration. Back to you Larry black on the organic beef what stores are you marketing this and how you're marketing it. Well right now we're marching through the new Pioneer co-op and I was just started a store last year in Cedar Rapids and we're doing a direct marketing. There's also places that you can market organic beef that is not what you call direct marketing to the store. There's a list of individuals that are asking for meats right now to be grown form.

It's been somewhat individual has and for like in our marketing we try to keep pace with the store supply and demand is what we're going by right now we've got. To other farmers that are raised in calf force that we've included into our operation now so I want to question you on that. Are you when you say supply and demand are you raising more and finding the market or do you have the call first so far are we right now we're at the place where we're doing we're just keeping up right now. It takes longer to raise and produce the beef that it does a lamb or pork and we've tried to speculate what consumers are going to do for the coming year and so far in the last three years we've missed it it's been growing faster than what we anticipate about port forks on the move to ever since it's been called The Other White Meat it seems like there's been an awful lot of what you have to hold yourself. No I did have and I have the neighbor down the road is raising the pork for me and I marketed at the store there too are you telling me you got more you can handle almost no you're not

really we're the place where we're trying for my own operation yes I could say I have more than half of what I'm doing is I mean incorporating by putting other farmers into this operation where they can raise calves and also finish out before. Are you hiring help. At the present time it's just me and my son on the operation. I'm sorry could I switch back to nice on that. You have a lot of intensive labor crops or are you hiring quite a little labor or not. We do for weeding purposes and for picking for Already our orders that are already picked people request that and we hire neighbor kids. We hire high school kids. We have the philosophy that as we do with our regular crops and we raise corn and soybeans is that we would rather hire the kids from from town than pay a chemical company for the chemicals to put on. Well it is it is a bit of a problem that you've got a lot of kids come in and rains or it's hot.

Well yeah there's that problem and I think you're always going to run into that about how much energy kids have to put into they especially when it's not their own energy level. Back to Larry black. Do you sell or graphically grown corn. Yes I do right now. This year we didn't because of the amount of crop we head but that we have sold to purity foods out of Michigan so this is for You Wholesale eggs or something or that would be sent the corn that we raise and ship through them went to Zurich Switzerland and it was made in a corn meal. And they did quite extensive lab test over and in Switzerland on a grain sample. Before that it was the other question is what's a good or is a good source of organically organically grown corn. I guess it's just a few farmers. There's actually there's more farmers that have organic corn either in Shell corner on New Year than people realize if you get doing some checking around the state of Iowa.

Larry Statler Is there a market for high protein soybeans. Or maybe Larry black you know you want to. And I'd like to answer it depends on what variety of soybean you're talking about if you have like a Venton which is a light germ spec is very high in protein and low in fat and there's quite a human consumption market for that overseas as well as here in the United States. Is there a way to test for it. Yes there is. There's a lab test I know that they can test for the protein that OK. LAURIE BLACK do you feed organic corn to your cattle or does she worry do you buy organic or commercial fertilizer. You can't buy organic fertilizer. We're also after I had a crop rotation we use our green manure crop which for our plow down and we also use the cattle and the sheep and the sheep waste on and then they ask what do you use for protein supplement. The one thing that we I don't use protein supplements in the beef or sheep either one now because we feed after I mix my corn and oats and alfalfa we found it we've got a real high protein tester

have gone about what protein we're talking between 18 and 22 percent on our alfalfa we're talking the corn has been running 10 plus and I guess the thing that I see in there is we quit using bean meals what we did for protein source but the pork production to we have the minister raising the pork for me he is using his own soybeans to raise organically rooted and he's roasting them you know. And I am right aren't you can't buy organic fertilizer can you know that's a contradiction in terms. Yes there's fertilizer products way to improve the interior design. You can't buy organic fertilizer versus nitrogen you know OK I want to be sure on that. And Denise what about you on protein for your dairy cows. Well actually we mix in our our. So I've been around your corner and that's what we and we top dress with. So I meal that

we buy. We do purchase that that's silly and we purchased mineral but we've got and we've worked out a ration where we just use our own soybeans that we raise. Larry black are you certified by any organization on the organic that you sell I think we sort of covered that but let's ask it this year. Normally most companies want to be certified every year with them. They want to crop history of what your products are going to be for the coming year. We were certified with little beer two years ago. Since we went to direct marketing our through our livestock and not selling our greens we haven't went into certification and kept it up there and that's what we're working on and I would like and state our Right now we're really getting it set up so in July the nine will be able to have a standards for what is considered the word organic in the state and what feed sources and type of fertilizer products can be used and I believe some other states already have done some work ahead of us on that haven't they that's right Chet. There's already I know of 11 other states right now that have theirs in effect. And again so that it can be administered fairly. That's right. Specifics.

And here again to you Larry black What kind of vaccination schedule do you use on your cattle control and b u d and so on. Okay. The way we set our operation up is we don't have any problems of vaccinations but we don't using antibiotics or drugs in an operation. The cabs themselves mostly have to get back in 84 for example. Well in our area there are some people that have trouble of Blackfoot and they ask if they can vaccinate for that and were let in and vaccinate for that. We try to keep in our own operation in our home no we don't use any type of stimulant a gross stimulant or any type of a drug in your system about a systemic control or parasite control know that especially the poor ons are the ones that we're really concerned about because they do penetrate skin very quickly. What what you cost again do you know. Are you daft thing about I'd have to think about that shit I don't have fires fires figure and cost again

it's hard for me because we sell our products for a premium. And I'd have to get that premium I'd have to figure out the cost of the corn. If we had to buy organic corn if it was our own good questions that you raise your corn and you sell your beef and so maybe it's one that you want to have ready for another time but that's a little. Where do you sell your meat we've already covered that I believe they called before we gave a good answer on that. Well it's a question of LAURIE BLACK unique your first great bees in sheep. Boy that's one that's just coming up for different people we went through that two decades ago didn't really. That's one thing I haven't dealt with yet. I don't know if you have any you know all right well let's not spend time because we got a lot of other questions here. Denise how far away is your pick your own farm from a good sized city. We have a town 7000 people six miles away. And

it's been but we also we attract people from about a 50 mile radius to pick our berries because we are there is another berry picking operation that's just begun in the last couple of years and so they'll take in another corner about that. But there are very few in western Iowa. And how do you advertise. We have radio and newspaper and we have our own business cards and we have a big strawberry that's out on the road. Mark what type of markets are available for corn and soybean products that are growing organically versus conventional. They had that directed you but actually you do use fertilizer and herbicides don't you. Currently I do yes. Maybe I need to direct it on over to Larry. What's the market compared to conventional farmers. The meats from what we can tell of the meat markets have been approximately around 20 to 25 percent or so and the greens mustard greens will run 20 percent in premium markets

and there's a drought year. You'll find it that market will change drastically. I know there's been quite a demand for the black soybeans Azuki Bean this year inept Freeman has jumped quite high this year Rick. They understand that I was stage developed a nitrogen test for corn and they wonder how they get it and what it will do for. Extension area offices will have it this year. They say always engine didn't know about it. Well the area offices will have it the county offices. It's just being developed and it's it's not well calibrated yet where you are going to. Fractal farmers of Iowa has been willing guinea pigs for it and it worked very well for us last year. OK Larry Statler we talked about should talky mushrooms or elephant ears working to get more information out of. Southeastern Iowa and its association in the Burlington area really is a LATE EDITION. Yes a lady called me the other day from Mason City I have a name I can't recall. We're

also working Larry Statler is at Kirkwood Community College a good community college I have a gentleman coming down from Minnesota that's been working with the Northwest Foundation and that's into it. Oh my office could do nothing then. How long does it take to grow a crop. Well I mentioned earlier there were some bad experiences early on and there were some things suggest you know what are excess. As far as I'm concerned it's again personal opinion I would say that maybe end of the third year before you get into production that you would like. Now you will be told it what you want once you once you really learn because I've heard some of those who have raised and they they made a mistake first year to get lunch and get onto it. How long has it taken. You out to be on an annual basis when once you learn to control your humidity in the spores in the proper condition of the logon and those types of things. I am interested what you're saying but I'm trying to read this next question here live for I believe for you Mark. Is there any resistance from businesses by the

organic movement. I think to a certain degree there is there seems to be much more receptive in this nowadays simply because of the economic situation all agribusiness has been faced with. Denise what's your experience on the resistance. Well I think. People have wondered in the 13 years that my husband I've been farming about organic and that sort of thing that I think it's very much changing my last week there was an exposé in 60 minutes about a chemical on apples and I think that people are becoming very aware of the pesticides in the air and in our vegetables and fruits. Well then we used to have a you're either here or here and now we have an awful lot of folks are trying to find out what they might do in the middle in fact we've mentioned at this big conference they had USDA was was by the Audubon Society the fertilizer society the Chemical Society and Dale society for examples all there's a quite a there's quite a change. I'm wondering Larry where do you find out about living mulch systems.

Or maybe if you have anything bad living mulch systems and well we've got winter cover crops you can plant a winter cover crop of prairie Vetch and plant into that cover crop and kill it when you plant. So with living until you plant into it if it's a living and you're trying to grow a crop in it you run into danger of competition there. Do many of you raise a raw and for a winner Welch or not anybody. Yes you know something that I've I've done here in the last two years. Last year experiment with some aerial seeded Harry Vetch and oats into soybeans had an early seeded with an airplane at the state you know and then planted directly that in the spring this past year. But as as with the drought had its toll it certainly had its toll on the germination of the cover crop. For this next year I have established a different type of cover crops system where I took notes field in which I harvested diod harvested the straw and then I worked the ground down and

have established ridges in which I planted hairy vets rye and oats combination in which I will plant in two then this spring. When I was farming I like to see dry in the fall gives you cover and mulch and I think it adds to the soil. The question maybe Larry to you what is the Statler what is. I'm sorry Larry black What is probiotics and work in you get it instead of antibiotics they say probiotic probiotics. You want to answer. Let's see if our scientist has an idea. You can buy them from a number of sources of probiotics. Well I mean it's kind of a play on the word antibiotic. Yeah because where you're usually feeding a mixture of beneficial bacteria.