Iowa Press; 1328; Racism In Iowa

As I were pressed show 13 28 recorded May 9th 86. Oh. A. Major funding for this program was provided by friends of Iowa Public Television and. Trade. Secret. History. When the University of Iowa men's basketball courts George Raveling resigned after three years in Iowa questions were raised as to whether part of his reason for leaving the state was due to racism. Tonight a look at racism in Iowa on an Iowa press. This is the Sunday May 11th Edition of Iowa.

Here is Dean Bork. Good evening. Is there racism in Iowa. No way most Iowans seem to respond but with the recent resignation of University of Iowa men's basketball coach George Raveling who left the state after living here three years. The issue of racism has been raised in news articles editorials and letters to the editor. And some may argue that numbers best tell the story. Well over the years there may have been little thought of racism as a problem in this state because minorities comprise just two and a half percent of Iowa's population. Even so minorities make up fully one third of the state's unemployed. And twenty two and a half percent of the Iowans incarcerated in Iowa's penal institutions are minorities. But statistics are just one piece of the evidence cited this proof of a possible racism in Iowa. Other evidence is the appearance of so-called hate groups in the state. In recent months during the farm crisis in Iowa both the Iowa attorney general's office and farm activist organization called pervert fired and said there had been

signs of activity from anti-Semitic and racist organizations. Just what does the presence of such organizations mean and what kind of a threat does racism pose to life here in Iowa. We'll be asking those questions and more of our guest this week Pastor Karla's Jain Jr. with the Des Moines area urban mission Council and Des Moines businessman Robert Morris one of the founders of the multicultural cable television station and part of the family who previously published a major black newspaper in Iowa for 50 years. The big question by David Upson a political reporter for The Des Moines Register and by John McCormack who's a columnist with The Burlington Hawkeye and other Harris newspapers. Mr. Morris I think most Iowans may have a little trouble thinking that someone who's up in six figures like George addling is being picked on. Why is racism involved in his leaving do you think. I think that there is a possibility that he might have felt that racism was you know played a role in that. However you know racism is apparent

wherever you go. For some reasons that we'll get into later will see the difference in different areas around the country but he might have been a little bit oversensitive. But is it possible that he just got a better deal. Is it possible that people are mad at him because he might have lost things that have absolutely nothing to do with with being black or not. Coaches leave because they get better jobs. Well I was city being a University of Iowa graduate I was city is a very competitive place. When you're dealing with sports and you know it is just it's either win or else catch you know what. From the fans because for several years now we've had a winning sports program pumps a lot of money into those programs and they expect results. I think there are other factors that might have been very relevant to Georgia that were not necessarily discussed in the media including some of the social factors in the Iowa City area that contributed to his leaving more than just the sports aspect of the issue.

Nothing to do. Those factors weren't to do with racism though. Is that right. Well I think that you could make a link there I think that it's a lack of. Social atmosphere lack of cultural atmosphere. Someone like George is used to a lot of travelling being around large urban areas where there are a lot more things for black professionals such as himself to get into and to feel more culturally relevant to what he likes there and I was city and when he travel around I'm sure that he's used to a lot more interaction in that respect. Back again as I said working with Des Moines urban and ministry Council I presume the ministry has much to do with questions like this how do you see the raveling situation and how does it affect you applied to your ministry. Well I love the way I was seeing it was that there was a. The tendency which is always prevalent in our society to deny

that racism had anything to do with something that affects a black person. We tend to look for all of the other reasons that situation took place that George Raveling left. In order to try to cover up the fact that racism was a factor and it just adds to the continuation of the problems of trying to recognize it. Trying to explain it away. Well I just had to happen. Mr. Boyce there is there is just the fact that George Clavering is a black man and has suffered the adversities have begun in a minority over the gate that make him a voice said today. That someone else might be to these other factors they affect him boy Capelli then a question about that and you know there's no question that George was a very sincere person and that was something that was a major factor in his leaving. I guess what he's really asking though and I'll ask it another way because George Raveling and other blacks is what I think Mack is asking

here grew up in circumstances that had him since improved. Are their hearts on their sleeves are the nerves more exposed. And when something that would ordinarily. Not affect a person are the nerves so sensitive that that incident or whatever it is the lack of cultural outlet for an individual so on are those nerves so exposed that they are oversensitive. Well I think that that is not necessarily the case. I think that. Obviously a person you know in a state like this where he was coming to Iowa City Iowa where he knew probably going in that there was not a very significant black population that it would lead to one being a little bit more sensitive because you're going to be less comfortable because you don't have a great peer group around you to deal with. And that's a fact. Let me ask the opposite side of the question to you Carlos. I have

whites. Too I'm sensitive and insensitive about these these pressures that if I think that that has a lot to do with it that they are insensitive to these things and also I think we tend to expect that blacks are going to be oversensitive to these things. And. And we say that then is a over reaction to what are innocent things taking place within society that they should just kind of well wipe themselves up to and and. Get with the rest of society. Pastor Jane let's get some definitions here going beyond George Raveling. What is racism. I mean I've I would imagine that there are many of our viewers in in Iowa who who like me did not have really any experience grew up in a small Iowa town didn't know any blacks and you know does that make you insensitive unsensitive uncaring ambivalent.

I guess what I'm looking for is let's get the definition here of what is racism in Iowa. What is racist. Well I see racism as being that feeling that. Notion within ourselves that that one race is superior to another and it may not even be intentional. It may be just something that is many things that we have within us are just given things that and this is why I see it now do you think that because many Iowans have that experience growing up just a lack of contact What does that breed racism. Well I think racism is there from the very beginning. Racism is within us. We always have racism and it's part of our culture it's part of our very institutions it's part of our makeup from the time that we're born. Mr. Morse you agree with that. Well I think that racism and I what can be put into two distinct categories can be be put into one based on ignorance and one based on competition. The competition relates more to the economic

breakdown in the state and the ignorance is more in the rural areas where there's just no content. And this is why so many black groups like the NAACP have been pushing for more positive role models on television because for a lot of rural people that's the only image of black people that they get. That's right. What did. B.J. Ferguson an editorial we published a while back and asked the question what do you know in dealing with this issue of small town I'll ask the question what's it like to grow white and i'll let me ask you What's it like to grow up black in Iowa. Well I think it brings on a lot of flexibility to say the least. You have to learn to deal in a lot of in a racial atmosphere. But fortunately if you are also around the black community where there are there are some peers and a support group there that you can perhaps even come up more outgoing and more able to deal with situations that you might encounter in life than with somebody coming from to Breena Green in Chicago where there you don't see many white

faces. Pastor Jane you're touching on a suggestion that perhaps I was to the bases and I will when we don't have the Klan riding rampant up and down a country road at the most of it is I'm conscious of that. I think that's true people don't feel that they are racist. And frankly that contributes to the success of groups like you're talking about the extremists and they're why they're now starting to get a little inroad because they they see this kind of non reaction to what is racism in the state and they're going to take advantage of it. When you lay back and say that there isn't something there there are groups that don't is there in one take advantage of it so they kind of play off this so-called ignorance or at least not a recognition of the problem. I shot of Afrin she wrote a while back gag comparing that case that

did not I always catch a she had the how college would lead Would you elaborate on that. Well it's a feeling that I have come to believe that in the least if you came from my own experience that for years I exercised denial of the spree much the same as an alcoholic does denial that there's a problem denial there's anything wrong. Until I came to consciousness of awareness of this and. And then from there on I begin to be able do something about it and to intentionally work to do something about my racism when I see a specific incident that that brought about this awareness for me you know well I would guess it was working in federal prison with all sorts of people all races and realizing that the thought was what I had to do with myself. And then going through an urban potential experience with C.T. Vivian when it was really brought to light.

Well if you carry the compassion on that if we had it carried out and you suggest that there is no cure the radiation anyway. Alcoholism. I don't think there's a cure I think you can make things better by being aware and then intentionally doing something about alleviating it. It is just oh I love it too you know as we often are I don't quite manage. I'm a firm believer that the color of freedom or equality is green. I think that when we have a redistribution of wealth and when we have a different sort of groups having access to the middle class and to the upper class from a socio economic point then we'll have some major changes on racism I think a perfect example of this is what has happened in this country with Japanese countries companies coming in here and building large factories in areas that have had historically very racially biased populations and seen a lot of cooperation when there was money involved. I think that it's a question of economics that like to have you Mr.

Morris enlighten me on some statistics that I cited earlier. I said that two and a half percent of Iowa's population is comprised of minority groups. And yet the unemployed total fully a third of the unemployed are minorities and twenty two and a half percent of our total prison population are minorities and yet two and a half percent of the total state's population is minority. Why why why. Two and a half percent and yet the larger percentage is unemployed and in prison. Well it's all based on a cyclic sort of problem. 1 you have school education being a problem. You have motivation. You being coming from a impoverished family background with no experience with higher education chances are you're not going to be interested in seeking higher education that's just not going to be a major issue to you. That

sort of thing so therefore to many black citizens are kept in the lower level socially economically and thus turning to other means and have no skills in the job market. So there's your unemployment rate and then when there are no jobs available then there's a tendency to get involved in illegal activity and there's your prison rate. Pastor Jayne you were shaking your head in agreement with what he is saying. Do you think that we have the remedies already in our societal mechanisms to outgrow what is producing these skewed statistics right now. Well there probably are song that are there some things that we on the road to recovery. If it if we are it's very very slowly in fact I think just kind of go backwards. Given the situation it's coming out of Washington where we we have this feeling on the part of persons in the administration that things have gone along so beautifully and they cite all the statistics of

progress. But now is the time to cut off the affirmative action programs. Now is the time to do away with the civil rights law that that kind of makes a redress of grievances possible that sort of thing. Why shop of those or at least some of the most vocal of those people in Washington to talk about a black clad pedal. They had Reagan appointed head of the Civil Rights Commission who seems to be saying what passed again. Yeah. Described. Yeah. Blacks don't need all that affirmative action anymore that dad that traditional black leaders in the end and they have been laid back felonies who is leading you all astray. How the. How do you react to that. Well I I don't think that Mr. Pendleton is key with a lot of things are going on across black America but I think that that he does make a couple of good points here and there because I think that there has been a lot of negatives that have come out of a lot of the

programs social programs that came about in the late 60s and early 70s. However I don't think that the leadership from the NAACP and the Urban League and other organizations. And their support of affirmative action. I think that that is very positive because affirmative action has been a very key tool in injecting black people into a upwardly mobile class situation social economic class educational class that sort of thing and I think when we see declines there that's a problem. And on the other hand I think that when we see increases on the social program side a lot of times that can set a very dangerous cyclic system there where it creates basically a welfare state. And that has an effect on the motivation of individuals which affects everything else. One example of affirmative action or a lack of in Iowa. Well a lot of the city governments have been very key in

bringing in black workers and other minorities and getting them into the system is a question of injecting a group that has been previously excluded into the system. Once you get a flow of black professionals of Hispanic Southeast Asian now into those sort of hierarchies then you have results because you have people moving up and being a part of that system and that's what we need. I don't ask this question to make us feel comfortable that I don't know what your answer is going to be. But comparatively is Iowa a good place for a black to live. We talked about George Raveling leaving but comparatively at any place else in the nation is Iowa a good place. To live. I think that if you're married and I'm an an employed Yes if you're single and or a young businessperson trying to get out I don't think necessarily that it is that leads to my next question. What about are we losing young bright blacks such as we're using losing from the state. Young bright white

brain drain. I think so I think that a lot of the black young blacks that are going into higher education are leaving the state. And I think that a lot that aren't going into higher education are leaving the state but many of them are coming back because they find out that it's even more competitive when you go down to Washington and try to get a job. And if you're black they're just you know it's a totally different situation you look twice when you see a white face there and here you look twice when you see a black face. Jane what brought this out a little bit. Dean brought up some statistics we've been dealing with minorities not just blacks. What is the condition of the Hispanic family in the Asian family. Is it better off worse off than the black. Well I'll deal with. Yes I do but primarily I guess I've had more contact we have several agencies that deal with the Asians and the Hispanics now. Just recently I was at a meeting where we talked about the Asians and the one thing about the Asian families that have come in. They have a lot of help from our refugee center in

fact the resources of the federal government are directed toward helping persons from from the Southeast Asian places. Good place to what. Back to the black ones then what. And again spinning off of something Dean raised. If there are different if the blacks and I will face different problems then presumably the solutions are different. What do you see as some of the solutions to problems of black islands that we can do here in Iowa or not. It may be beyond the national problem. Well one of the things that are more important the most important thing that Robert mentioned was the fact that the when he talked about the greenness of things and how that would help when you measure poverty we measure poverty in terms of income and poverty actually should be measured in terms of wealth. Because you can make all sorts of money but unless you somehow have control of the means of production eventually things are still going to move

toward. Toward the other segment of society that has the control of those things. And we need to do some things to encourage get rid of the roadblocks that will enable minorities to become owners of businesses to be part of the economic development plans and programs. When they had a recent economic conference out of Great which was sponsored by Drake and The Register. I was hard put to find any black faces in the in any of the presenters there. And after questioning people I found it was only a very small sprinkling of persons who were black even in attendance at this time when you talk about the future of Iowa. If you're excluding persons who are ethnic minorities in that kind of planning that kind of indicates the racism that's there. Mr. Morris how do you get the greenness going then. Well I think that we're facing a very negative mentality in that respect. I think that there are a lot of companies here in the morning for instance

that could be doing a lot of things to help develop the economic side of the inner city community not just for blacks but for also other people who have traditionally been excluded from the business community. But you've got an attitude there were a lot of companies would rather buy a table at the NAACP banquet than do business with a black company. And that's the attitude you know that's our bit for the black people. They don't think they can make money in the black community. Right. Or they're not willing to give it a chance or they're not willing to try a minority contractor or a subcontractor. They would rather buy a table at the banquet and that's their bit for the black community for the year. You know you both had a little that a call here an ax usually Milo. Welcome thank you. You mentioned the need to divide the wealth that need to get control of the means of production it sounds pretty socialist. You know back in and the 60s Stokely Carmichael and somebody who just scared the hell out of us white folks and that had has had the blacks become too placid. You

seem to be slipping over again the other side expecting this great capitalist society to to somehow generously share its wealth with you. I think I'd have to be more add even more revolutionary if that's the word to get it. Well you know I don't think anybody's asking them to share their wealth. I think the black business is asking for is a mutually beneficial business relationship. To introduce to give the opportunity for black businesses to work to perform services that are currently being performed you know in the other community I think that's what we're really talking about we're not talking for a handout we're just talking about let's do some business. Is there a role for government in this or has government really messed up the black in America. Well I think that's a dual answer on that one side I think that the federal government has been the leading advocate of affirmative action. And if you go to Washington D.C. you'll see that it is very very apparent

there that there are people who say that the collapse of black family in America is a result of government meddling. You agree with that. I disagree with that because I think. Well I disagree with that for a point. Let me say that some of the emphasis that the government has put on some of the social programs that have been released especially like with the worst sometimes it's possible for a young woman to get more finances if the male is not in the home. Well if the mill is an employer and she can get more not having to keep the family together. Pastor Jane what what's your view of the role of government. Well the role of the government is absolutely necessary. Move move business over so that they will make some room for minorities because in any kind of a power structure the people who are in power are not going to move over by on their own.

It's just the way it is those in power want to stay in power and the powers are to be kept out of it that's the way we run our foreign policy and and somehow we are seen in another way need to make sure that the government is going to just nudge business over kind of force them by one set asides when we have contracts that we let through our governments and kind of be watchdogs on them that they don't take advantage of what we called minority contractors set aside so that they just set up these front organization with with blacks who will cooperate with them because they have no one's place else to go. We need the government has an absolutely necessary part in Scent of money and tax of any sort is actually down to state government. Yeah earlier they shared a point of e.g. the story that the boy the region is calling on schools to have to employ more minority people which seems to be an admission that there weren't enough. Do you see any added I do

agencies exist day to day taking that kind of affirmative action. Well I think the state government has been somewhat passive in pushing for as a whole and pushing for minority participation where the federal government in the 70s in the early part of the 80s was much more aggressive and I think there's a great deal of difference there. You know when I was a kid go happen and you know that 50 years ago I remember do it all we want a token black in the legislature. You know I am 50 years later and we have one black and legislature is that a good indication of the drastic we have political power. Well I think that there's no question that the black community in Iowa is very weak from an economic and political standpoint I think that's one of the main reasons for the brain drain while black professionals are leaving because the only time that there is respect given by a lot of the major corporations let's say here in town is when

there is a black economic interest in town that they can relate to. There is not one here at the time we really don't have many black businesses that are out there that are are flourishing in this town in this you have a deaf ear being turned to the nonwhite community. Is there anything that can beat it. Do you also subscribe to the fact that it's been mentioned here that there is a breakdown more serious in the black family than the white pastor. Well from my observations and from my discussions with versions of the black community that's probably Saul book and that is and that is because of the racism because whatever affects both black and white families effects black and white persons affects black persons more. I'm sorry that I hit the directive that they one minority in our forum here is time and we have just run out of a thank you very much for being our guest today Robert Morris and Carlos Jane.

Next week and I will press will be questioning three Democrats who are seeking their party's nomination for governor there Robert Anderson Littlejohn cons and George Tindley. Before we go tonight if you have any questions or comments but I will press here is the address to write US Post Office Box seven hundred fifty eight The zip and 1 5 0 3 0 6 0 asking for the invitation to stay tuned for take one with Morgan Hello. Thanks for joining us tonight. Good night. Major funding for Iowa press was provided by friends of

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