IPBN Presents Mary Jane Odell; Mjo 8; "Rogers Morton, Secretary Of Commerce"

Good evening and welcome to the first in our nightly series of programs. This is a big political night in Iowa and that's what we're going to talk about politics with the secretary of commerce Rodgers. Mr. Martin was recently tapped by President Ford to be his special counselor on domestic affairs and economic policy Secretary Martin served in the United States House of Representatives from one thousand sixty two thousand nine hundred seventy. He was chairman of the Republican National Committee in 1969 appointed secretary of the interior by President Nixon in 1971 and secretary of commerce by President Ford in March of 1975. Mr. Secretary you have been secretary of commerce less than years. You like the job. Oh I like it very very much. Leave with a great feeling of warmth toward the department and very much in tune with its mission of trying to develop our economy. I think however the time has come for me to move on I really would like to think about getting out of government I've been

in a long time. But the president is a very persuasive man and he persuaded me to come over and be one of his counselors. There's been a great deal of speculation of course about this new job of yours. Did the president ask you first of all to be perhaps for his re-election committee. And I refused and then you know I assigned he wanted to keep some continuity I've been on the Energy Resources Council and have been chairman of it for since I left interior even while I was in interior. And I've also been on the Ekka the executive committee of the Economic Policy Board which is a sort of a screening group that that undertakes to look at all initiatives that are brought to the president. And I think he wanted to keep me in that role and incidentally I will try to concentrate all of the relationships with external political institutions such as the National Committee and his campaign that is now that are now being carried out by several different people in the White

House so we get it all in one shop and I think we can take a lot less time and it'll be a very much more efficient way of handling it. So he didn't offer you another position and you know no I know was no negotiation. OK. What did you discuss his campaign when he talked with you about his job well I've discussed his campaign with him frequently and my normal association with him or both. As you know we both served in Congress together. We are longtime friends I'm a logical person with whom he discusses his. Many things is political problems and so on and so I talk to him about it greatly. Specifically what did he tell you your duties would be in your new job. He said I want He's very anxious that you continue to serve on these two very important entities the national the Energy Resources Council and the Economic Policy Board and then he said I'd like you to also then

coronate all this activity that's going on in the White House take it over if you will that relates to both my campaign and to the National Committee as president United States he is obviously head of the party. So there's a there's a lot of rapport between the president and Mary Louise Smith for example and I think I will take that over and relieve the various people of that burden. And we discussed that and and we discussed this issue that has now been brought up as to whether I should be on the federal payroll or whether I should be on be paid back sternal sources such as the National Committee or the campaign and we both agreed it would be a very bad precedent for anyone to serve in the White House to serve intimately as an advisor to the president and be paid by external sources. Presidents for a long time of all had political advisors. You think of Harry Hopkins for example and think of it. Jack Valenti and think

of all the different people that have served presidents advising him on political matters and all of them have been. Members of the White House staff members of the president's staff. And I don't think the new law addresses itself to this but I have been assured by the president's counsel Mr. Buchanan that he will sit down with Mr. Curtis. Chairman of the elections and discuss this because I certainly don't want to be in violation of the law I don't want the president to be in violation of law and I think it's very important that we make a determination a legal determination I'm not a lawyer and I can't speak to it. Well how do you feel about what Mr. Curtis said. Well he said he wanted to investigate it he wants to review it I think that's very good. I want to make sure it's right. So I think that's a good idea and I think the two lawyers ought to get together and see and then I think perhaps some people may have felt that even though it was according to the letter of the law it might be violating the spirit of the law.

Well you've got to look at it this way. All of the things that I'm doing are now being done by different people in the White House. Bob Hartman is doing some Dick Cheney doing some of them are NSA is doing some of it. It's all being done now. I will bring it all into one place and I will do it and relieve them of that responsibility. So. If there is a violation of the law doing it it would seem to me would be a violation of law of anyone else doing it even though they may be doing part of it and that I think has to be resolved. Was anyone fired to make room for you. No no there was no one was fired to make room for me a tall. As you remember Don Rumsfeld left the left the staff went to Secretary of Defense and Dick Cheney is now the chief of staff but Don having been a member of Congress having served with the president sort of in addition to his chief of staff was a very close personal counselor to the president. And I think to an extent I will fill part of that role.

Do you feel that the president has been getting bad advice and domestic and economic affairs because obviously he he he feels he needs something that he hasn't been getting. No I don't think he's been getting bad advice at all I think we've been I've been one of his advisors and I and I think he's been getting good advice one of the problems of course has been with our initiatives the Congress has taken a very very different viewpoint a. The president feels very very strongly that we should achieve energy independence in this country by 1085 it that we shouldn't be at the mercy of the world and and our energy initiatives which directed the policy toward energy independence. I have not met with favorable response from the Congress and this also goes with a good many of our other our other economic policies particularly in the effort to try and reduce the federal expenditures in order to get a better handle on inflation. According to one report that I read you will be a counselor with quote Cabinet rank. Now is that possible.

Yeah that's that's normal that's very normal that's routine Don Rumsfeld has accounts for Cabinet rank for field Bugan his account his legal counselors a Cabinet rank counselor it's a it's a precedent that started a good many years ago that two or three or four of the counselors usually not more than that are awarded Cabinet rank. And I think this is done primarily in an effort not to do taking quite a pay cut. Well you are not known as a shrinking violet or someone who would be passively. Apt to to go along with something. So let me ask you this. Let's get specific about your job. What would you do. What are the incidental political chores that you will be having Where will your office be will you be available at any time of night or day to Mr. Callaway the president's campaign. I'm available now to him any time of night or day and I'm sure every other Cabinet officer has. I mean there's no there's no

isolation as far as any of us are concerned we serve the president have total sense even though I'm secretary of commerce secretary Butz is an agriculture secretary Coleman's in transportation and we serve in the cabinet of the United States and that is the closest a body of people to the president obviously were available to his entire staff and the people who are working for him. And I'm talking about your new job. Well I'll be totally available. Certainly Mr. Galloway would have been apt to call you rather than the president now but you're for. But they were he would have called Dick Cheney who is the chief of staff for that was the assignment that. That the president gave Mr. Cheney you be the liaison with my campaign with Mr. Callaway. Now I will take over that responsibility from Mr. Cheney and he won't be burdened with it and he can develop his job as chief. It will have immediate access to answers. Yes he will you travel a lot in this job. I hope not as much as I have been and I have been. Quite an itinerate

and I hope that I will be able to spend more time in Washington and traveling takes a lot out of me and I'd like to not travel any more than I have to but obviously this is a big country and you don't know what's going on unless you get into a lot of parts of it. So in other words you don't really know. No I don't know but I think that I can say that I don't travel as much as I have been and in the past media the past three or four years what have you been advising a President Ford up to this date about his campaign. Do you think it's going badly. I haven't really. That Been to talk to me greatly about the details of his campaign I discussed more with him. Overall political strategy and what do you advise him on that. Well I think it's been primarily in the area of economic recovery and I've been advising him that we have got to make sure that the programs that we put forth are fully

understood and stood by the people and that they strike a responsive chord. Well be specific what would strike a responsive chord Do you mind. Well one of the things that one of the concerns was was the question of energy and energy supply versus energy price control. And I have advised the president strongly that the that this nation is better off and the people will respond to a program that assures supply and supply versus a program that simply is directed toward the control of the price of gasoline. I think that an abundance of energy is a political plus in the president's record. So I think people are more worried about the supply than the price of it I think. I think they are when they stop and think about it. Yes I think that they are they should they should be concerned and. And I think if we if the president's initiatives in this field are

well well understood and and he articulate so well what these policies are. I think that people will respond and Spahn respond favorably. I'm I believe very strongly that we should deregulate the price of natural gas at the wellhead. And if because if we don't we're not going to have enough natural gas and I think that that really is the those are the kind of issues which I think there are political issues in the sense that I have been directing most of my attention to the same thing with jobs and we should understand what the unemployment situation a little better. We are in the number of jobs has been increasing rather steadily. But the number of people entering the workforce has been increasing more. So we have this unemployment now the way we're going to get at that is by increasing the investment the investment in new plants the investment in modernization the investment in new facilities because we have to not brings so much bring people back to work as we've got to also

create a lot of additional jobs for new people entering the workforce now I think it's very important that the public understand this is an idea that the public has not understood they have not. I think that they have thought of this unemployment as totally a question of a person being laid off. And that particular job being. Vacant while the actual fact is yes there were a good many layoffs but people of all have been coming back to work at a rather remarkable rate. But because of the number of new people entering the workforce we have had unemployment percentages that are unconscionably too high now in order to get those new jobs. There's going to have to be tremendous investment might take fifty five thousand dollars of investment in order to produce one job well that that means we got to make sure that we're not taking the money out of the economy and running it through the government. But that we're leaving enough money in the economy

so that business can invest in new facilities and create new jobs for these new people that are entering the workforce. This is our theories but putting them in actual practice is a little more difficult. Well they're theories they're they're they're they're they're common sense and that's what we're trying to bring a little common sense you can't come. You can't continue to spend billions of dollars more than you take in. And there's absolutely no jobs created by this tremendous amount of money that's being invested in paying the interest on the public debt. That doesn't create any employment for anybody. And you call them theories but bringing this country back to a growth situation that will sustain the increase in jobs are required to take care of our new generations is common sense. And I think that's what we've got to put into

this into the into our programs and I think they've got to be understand understandable by by the people generally and that's exactly in the field that I've been working in. Mr. Secretary I think because of Watergate the American public has a new awareness of what they should be demanding of public officials do you agree. Yes indeed. Do you think they should. Oh yes I think so. And I felt that way all great all along I've been I was very much for the ethics bill when it was before the Congress. Way back when I was there and I feel that. I feel very strongly about this and I think that public service is a great privilege and I just kills my soul when I see those trusts violated in any way. Let me ask you if you would explain to Iowans the events of 1971 when you were tapped as secretary of the interior by President

Nixon and you and William O Mills was I think you were the one you preferred successor in the House of Representatives to you. He was your choice to succeed you in other words. OK. Did you arrange a loan for him. No I didn't I known his campaign if you will remember I resigned and then he had to stand a special election and he stood a special election. And if you will remember this was very closely on the heels of the general election the general election had been in November. This was in the early winter of 1971 the election had been in 1970 and so the coffers of the Republican Party and my congressional district were in fact there was no money and there was some debt. So I asked the President Nixon committee if they would help finance that campaign. And they said they would but they hope that after the

campaign was over and if Bill Mills got elected we could have some fund raising dinners and they could get their money back and I said well we'll do the best we can i don't know whether we can or not. And they agreed to to pay to finance the kana campaign to the extent of $25000 in 2010 I did they did they did put it this was the question he reported it but I don't think that he counted for it fully and completely and in the detail. That was required by either the federal or state statute. And I think that was the problem. However as I understand it talking with the state secretary of state some time later that he felt that it had been adequately accounted for. Why did he commit suicide. Well nobody knows I think there were a lot of external reasons other than than this issue that were weighing on Bill and I wish you

know sometimes that's a hard question to answer as to why anybody commits suicide it's a very tragic thing Bill was a very fine administrative assistant. He did a great job for the district and for me and he really I thought was a super person. And. You can already have the highest water. I'm sure that you know. Yes very very close to him very strong about it. Of course when I got into interior and he was on the Hill our association was very infrequent. But I have I've always asked myself why and I said I'm sure that many others do. There were all kind of rumors about other things that were weighing on his mind. It was a it was a very bad thing and you know I think gosh I hope there's value to everything but I hope that

this business of accounting in the first place. The committee I think made a mistake. They sent it down there and formed that money down there in the form of cash. Bill had a tremendous number of bills that had to be paid advertising bills and all kinds of bills and. And I think that money was quickly used to pay a lot of those bills and because it was cash and there weren't checks written obviously there wasn't the kind of auditing in the conning that there should have been. And I. I have no knowledge whatsoever of any of that money having been misused. But on the other hand because it was cash and and I think all of those things have been recouped been corrected though we are constantly seeing. Problems of this kind all through our institutions business institution banks institutions I'm sure though I'm positive that none of it was embezzled or anything like that and therefore I feel that the

suicide must have had a lot of collateral forces. Let me ask you this. Have you ever considered this or thought about this aspect because you were a close associate of former President Richard Nixon's you were floor manager of the GOP convention that nominated him you supported him in 68 in 72. You were his personal choice for the party chairman. You made the nominating speech for Spiro Agnew. You were on Nixon's key issues committee to advise him on various subjects. You retained your seat in the House of Representatives through this. Do you feel that your association because I don't think the country has really recovered from Watergate yet your association with Richard Nixon might possibly hurt Gerald Ford's campaign. Well this of course is something the president himself would have to take into consideration. Did you consider it. Oh sure. I considered it. You bet I did.

This sounds conceited but I don't think that my record of achievement is a reflection of my association with any individual I think I've been able to achieve what I have achieved. Because I've been able to do it myself and there was never any kind of personal commitment of any sort on my part to President Nixon or Vice President Agnew or anyone. I was selected by them to do various things. It was not me but don't you have to have a personal commitment to serve the president of the United States. You have to have a personal commitment to his two. Yes you certainly do you have to have a liability to that person in his job and in his and in his service and to his to his institution be it the presidency or senator

if you're working for a senator or a bank president if you're working for the bank. Well I don't believe that an employee of the bank has to feel that he's accountable for any kind of actions that the president of the bank. Goes out on his own and does. If I had been a part of any of that I would feel I have a terrible feeling about it but I was not a part of it I didn't know any more about Watergate than any other reader of the newspaper. I always thank God I didn't die. I tried early on after the thing it happened to in my input in exercise my influence in everything be fully disclosed and all the necessary remedial action taken because I deplore any of that. That sort of thing but I would hope that this country is not so restrictive in its attitude that we condemn an individual because he happened to be associated with an institution in which somebody you know went off the

deep end. That would be a terrible travesty and an invasion of our system of justice and fair play I think. Except that of course it wasn't just one person there were a lot of people involved. And then I'm not I think that you were and I was that odd and I think the way this thing has been combed over by the Committee on the hill by the special prosecutor knurling else I think everybody that's been involved has been fully exposed and. And in fact as it's been it's something in some cases it's been very difficult for me to see how you could possibly have a fair trial of these people when you see the amount of publicity and the way the country was whipped up that. Way I think that justice has had a very difficult time making sure that they did have a fair. I would like to one other thing because of your long experience in the party and your loyalty to the Republican Party and your years in the House of Representatives in this. Party Chairman and so forth. Do you feel

now this would be in retrospect rumors that someone who is elected to Congress or holds a an official public position should be allowed to have a directorship in a large company such as for instance you were director of Pillsbury company while you were in the House of Representatives and also Party chairman. Now I'm not suggesting that you did anything illegal or even thought anything improper. But there is always the possibility of the conflict of interest. Do you think that's a good idea. Well I think we've changed. I think the ethics today are changed. I think it's too bad in a way because I don't think the Congress understands anything about business and what part what role business plays in providing jobs and in and in the well-being of the American people. And we are tending through this new ethic. And through fear not through real but through fear of conflict of interest to separate our government officials further and further from the real world the real

world of the economy the real world of the society and further and further away. But supposing that our elected officials go back to their constituents to find out what the real world is. Well yes they do but what is their real experience with that and I to day I don't think you could. I don't think you could consider it but what's the difference between. Let me ask you this. Serving on the board of directors of the X Y Z Corporation and taking an honorarium to make a speech. Well I think there would be a difference in my opinion in this way and that if a bill came up say on grain exports or having anything to do with the company of which you were director you couldn't help but be subtly influenced inside your own head even though you were the model of the outflows you had took the honorarium. Let's say from the grain Millers Union. But that's

for one speech. Well in any event I know you're obligated. You took say $500000 or two thousand dollars. Well perhaps my question to go to this should be should an elected official Do either of those things. Well that that I think is what I want and I think if you're getting to that point and I think that's where we have that's where we've come out as you know before I accepted the job of secretary of interior I resigned from everything including Same thing goes for university trustees ships you may not be compensated but you have a loyalty to the institution and you couldn't possibly You couldn't possibly serve on it as a trustee of the university and then not be interested in see that that university maybe got as much federal help as you could possibly get them I mean that's normally that isn't so. You've got that thing and then you get the question of your church has to be yes or no.

You know I think that it should not be allowed it isn't anymore than it is in the Congress I think. But you but do you agree that yes you know what I'm trying. No I I think now that we've got stay off of boards and and and commercial ties but then then then let's do this. Take your take great members of the house still keep their name on their law firm. I'm sorry what about that. I have to yeah. Well that's another question you come back and we'll try to answer. Thank you very much Mr. Secretary Yvette. I would like to tell you that tonight beginning at 8 o'clock public affairs will cover live I was Republican and Democratic caucuses for the Democrats of course and I will see the first vote casting in the nation for their various presidential candidates and for the Republicans the entrance of Ronald Reagan into the race could provide some unexpected excitement. I'll be there along with the Dean Borg so beginning at 8:00 o'clock tonight I hope you'll be watching. I'm Mary Jane O'Dell good night.