Biography Hawaiʻi; Maiki Aiu Lake; Interview with Milton Tuni I & Vernon Stone 11/27/01 #1

I know they'll be fine. I just want you to prompt me if I don't ask something important. Okay. No, he isn't that way. Leading role. Is that the shifter? They said it's very, very good and they said she's done a terrific job. She plays, you know, fine on the movies. So, you know, she plays the leading role. What is Pa, Chuck? He's with me at the crash at that time. Yeah. Okay. So, we're rolling now? Yeah. Okay. So, I think I'm going to ask each of you, maybe I'll ask you first to me, how you first met Snucky, and how you started dancing with her. Okay. It was in 1951. She was auditioning dancers for this show called The Polynesian

Ballet, and two dancers auditioned. It was George Muglenty and myself. I'm sorry. Can we just stop? Okay. Vicki, well, we're ready. Could you start at the beginning again? Yeah. Yeah. Any time. Okay. So, Tony, could you tell us, start telling us that again, how you met Mikey and how you started dancing with her? Yeah. It was in 1951, and there was a little ad in a paper that they were looking for male dancers for this big show that they were doing. And so, we went to the audition, and only two guys showed up, and I was one of the two, of course. And so, she said, well, you guys got it, you know, because there was already both of us, and then about the second week into rehearsals, she went to Fahrenheit in high school, and got 18, I think, 18 of the football players

and to come into rehearsal with us. So, that's how I really started. And what was the name of that show? It was called The Polynesian Ballet, and it was presented by Kamakila Campbell, and it was in the form of Kahiko with NT Mikey doing the Kahiko portion, and the San Francisco section, which featured Wisa Di Orso at the time. They translated into ballet form, and it was a fantastic production, but the sets were from Sony Hany, and Sony Hany, ice skating show, and again, it was before anybody's time. Anything that NT Mikey did or Snooki did was always before anybody's time. She was always ahead of her time. So, I was so happy to, and I think she taught me a lot, that's why I was ahead of my time also. So, you after that experience in the Polynesian Ballet, you started to study who loved her? Yeah, it happened one night, she called me, and she said, we have two performances,

one at the Mom and Tabanaco, another at an office's club, and she said, are you interested? And I said, no, and she said, they're paying $3 a job, so there was six bucks. You know, and there was a lot of money in 1951, so she used to live above me up in Paola, and she said, well, I'll be passing you away in a certain hour. And so, if you outside, that's mean you're going to go, you know, and I thought about it, thought about it, thought about it, and I said, yeah, I'm going to give it a try. So, I climbed out of my bedroom, windowed down the guava tree, and ran down a lane, because we live in lanes, you know, those days. Well, I still do, I guess. Anyway, and she picked me up, and we went, and I was just so excited and so nervous, you know, because when we went to the Mom and Tabanaco, all these, you know, some more in people, and, and, but I fit right in. I was like, quick sanny, and I just went right with everyone, and that was the start with me with the anti-mikeos and the Kiwitch I caught her.

And Vernon, how did you meet anti-mikeans? Well, first we moved from Kakaako in 1950, because Karen and Sharon and all of them were just little kids, and we were the neighbors, and I just knew her by talking over the fence. And to start dancing, Toni called me, but I always knew Mikey before dancing. I never thought that she had boyhood dancers. When Toni called me, I went, we called him Toni at Milton, and I started going on on different shows with them all over the place. She used to send us over to Kauai, and we just had Luau Gardens, which was a fabulous place at the time. And Toni's uncle was there, Gabriella E, we'll go visit over there. And we did a lot of things going into military bases, that I enjoyed very much, triple general hospital, and we danced at the Niemolo Hotel with very good entertainers from way back, Elima Baker, all these good entertainers.

So many more, I can't think of their names, but the Niemolo was the place where everybody went at that time. There wasn't many tourists like this today, you know. And whatever tourist was there, they just enjoyed it. It was more like bungalows. It wasn't tall buildings, and that's how I started up with them. And Toni and I started, became known as the two male dancers for my E.K.I.U. And we just went everywhere, especially in the parades. We always came out number one, winning everything, you know. So Toni, what was that like for you to be one of the only men dancing in a pool at that time? Well, at the time, I thought nothing of it. I just thought it. I guess it was just in me that I had to do it, not had I just wanted to do it after I got involved. But, you know, they always say, oh, you know, brother, they call me brother Toni, or brother was the first, the first, the first. And it, I feel good because maybe the first after the war days, you know. It gave all the rest of the males that are dancing,

and then who, who moves today, you know, I broke our ground for them. Could you tell us what it was like to be one of the first male dancers at that time? Yeah, at the time, I really didn't think anything of it. I just went out and did it, you know. And as it went on to kept saying, oh, you know, you're the only male dancer after World War II. And it didn't really ring a bell until about three years in two of my dancing career. And I'm so happy I stuck it out because, you know, it paved the way for all these other people whom Mikey, O'Neighe, and other Kumu's O'Neighe then. And that's the reason why we have so many male Kumu's today. You know, so I'm happy that I was first, you know. Do you find that you got a lot of attention because you were one of the first?

Yeah, I did. I got a lot of attention. In fact, even today, this old lady came up to me and said, I remember you, you know, as a dancer. And I remember that people used to come to Hawaii every year to see the Kamehameha de Parade, just to see me. And they used to tell me about it. And then later on in my life, when I was at the Danny Kaleikini show, the people just used to follow. And at the time, you don't think anything because you're very young. But now that, you know, I'm in this age of my life, I just reflect and go back and think of all the wonderful things and how kind and wonderful people were. And again, you know, Snookie always said, when you're out there, just give it your all, just let it go, you know. And that's what I used to do. I was out there to please the people. You know, I was not a selfish dancer. I went out there and just dance my one army off. So Vernon, I'm going to ask you the same question.

What was it like to be one of the first? Well, I can go way back before I met Tony and Mikey. I go back about 1945. Well, way back, in fact, when I was five, I danced for, my aunt was a Hula instructor, Mary Hall. And that's Donald's auntie. And we were dancing that time. And I quit as time went on. But we danced at the Royal Hawaiian Bandstand. Every Sunday is back in 1942, 43 for all that time. And then when we moved to power, then I got involved with Mikey. And then started going on with Tony and dancing all the different places. But I felt just like him, I felt very special. We were, the publics, they always wanted us, the public. Everyone went, there were different male dancers. We saw different floats. But we always stole the show. I said, we were that good. You know, we were just great at our work. And I enjoyed that very much.

And the cameras was always on us. Whatever our floats passed by. We were right there. So you did feel like you got a lot of attention? Oh, yeah, yeah. And the only sad thing about me, I left the islands in 1959. And went away to Hollywood for bigger stars, which I'm still waiting for, my call. And I came back in 1971. I was gone in 11 years. I worked as a designer and a flower shop up there in Hollywood. And then when I came back, I got back with Tony. He was dancing at Parada's Park. And I went up with him. Just when he took me down to look at Mikey's saw me and she got all excited seeing me again. He hadn't seen me for so long. And so, why don't you join us? I said, I'm too old. And that's how I went on and on. But I never danced anymore. At parties, I do. So what was the nightclub and dance scene like in the 50s to me? What was it like to perform in those clubs?

What kind of numbers did you do? And what was the audience like? And how was it the same? Well, the audience was always very, very kind. Because I guess we were male dancers. So they were always very kind. And we started with just in the show like just one, two numbers. And before the week was over, snoo- Yeah, I think it started a question. Okay, I have that. Can you tell us about what it was like to perform in these years and the 50s in Waikiki? What kind of- What it was like in the clubs and what kind of numbers you performed? Well, first of all, let me put it this way. Working in the clubs, we were very, very young. And we couldn't go out in the audience because we were not of age. And so we had to perform and go right back to the dressing rooms. But the audience was very, very kind always.

Because, you know, just two male dancers. And we first started off doing one kohiko and one awana. And that was an opening gig. And by the time the week, the first week, the fourth night, we had like four and five numbers. Because the audience just wanted more and more and more and more. You know, so Snooki had to give us more time in the show, you know. But they were lucky because, you know, the girls could have a lot of time to rest. And the boys are just busing butt, you know. But it was fun. Our first gig was at the Nio Malo Hotel. Then we went to the Royal Hawaiian Hotel. And Mawana Hotel. It was really, really great. It was good times. I mean, it was real special times. I mean, yeah, they were really great. I really appreciated all the people back then. And if it wasn't for the people, you know, we wouldn't have been here today. And I wouldn't have stuck that out because I did it. Not because I really wanted to because I think I owed it to the audience, you know.

And I owed it to Snooki because she was always there, you know. She was wanting to, you can do it, you can do it. And I believed her and I really didn't know if I can do it or not, you know. And so that's how my professional career started with Snooki, just that one, I was at the right place at the right time. Yeah. What was it? We could think. Tony, I wanted to ask you before I move on to Vernon. Was it unusual for a dancer to be studying and learning Cajico at that time? Well, you know, at the time, at the time, it was Mikey I use Hula Studio. And at the time, no Hulao, it was just Hula Studio. She was an instructor.

She was not a Kumu in our day until she unique the first class. And then Kumu came much into play. And Hulao came much into play. But at the time when Mikey first started her Hula Studio, it was Mike, Margaret I use Hula Studio. And that's where we ventured from the root of whatever, of the Hula, you know. And I guess it was unusual, but I guess it was meant to be for me to do it, or else it wouldn't have happened. And then what really, really brought it on was I was a swimmer also. And I had it over the other swimmers because whenever I swam for the National Olympics. And so when we went across country, I was the only one that used to could get up and dance. So God, you know, I was great. So Code Sakamoto was my coach. And so he said, when we get back home after this, you know, eight week tour, all of you guys going to have a dance to Hula, you know.

So it just started, just kept rolling and rolling and rolling, you know. And then from then went to Aloha Week, big productions, and all that kind of good stuff. Yeah. So it was really great. So Vernon, maybe you could tell us now what it was like for you to be dancing in Waikiki with a club? I enjoyed it very much. Yeah, I always liked dancing in the club, but Neil Mala was the club for us at the time. And then like Tony said, we were in the Royal Hawaiian doing Aloha Week time with big groups, and Mikey and Randall Holesho, and it was just fantastic, I thought. And dancing all over in different clubs, we did a few of that, but was mostly military bases that we did. And that I enjoyed too very, very much. The money was like today, everything is for money. We really danced, whether we get paid or not, we're going to dance. And the Hula was the main thing to get out there and perform. And that's what Mikey liked about us.

We went there because it was the pay. If she said, Vernon, I want you to come in dance. I'll be right there. I never asked what time I'm going to get paid. How much is it going to be? That never bothered me. And I enjoyed it very much. When she wanted me, she would just yell from over the fence and say, get your lava lava, we're going to go out. And I said, okay, pull up my lava lava and off we went. And pick up Tony and we just go with the group and had a good time. I enjoyed that very much. So when you told people or when people found out that you were studying Cajico at that time? I didn't study Cajico. No, I left as during their time. I was only with comic wholers and regular wholers, male wholers. And most lot of comic wholers. We did like holocain, all that kind of wholers, which pertaining for males to dance. When I left and came back, I saw these different wholers. I said, well, I'm not into that because I never learned that kind of wholer. But I did learn ancient way back and chess hula to make it a chance and all that. But Cajico's and all that, that wasn't for me.

So, Tony, let me ask you this. Did you enjoy dancing those comic wholers back then? I really didn't dance comic, you know. Let's put it, I just enjoyed everything. I just enjoyed my run with Snooki and my knowledge that she gave me. And we fed off of each other a lot. I can remember when shows were dragging and she said, tell me, brother, God, they'd do it, you know. And I used to just kind of, that was kind of comedy, I guess. But it wasn't supposed to have been, you know what I mean? It was a little poop and hollering and the whole thing, you know. And that's what I meant by come. Well, Hula, Hula Company was a lot of comic into that. When you're grinding your engine and, well, that's a big comic right there. And we did it together. The reason I'm asking that question is because when I was a girl,

I remember seeing a lot of those kinds of wholers. And I miss them now, you don't see them anymore, yeah? Yeah, all the comic dancers have come to see us. So, just too much, you know. They all became classic dancers. And they lost whatever they had going as a comic to become a classic dancer, you know. But anyway, that's how it all happens and it goes. I mean, to each his own, what they ever do want to do. They just do it. Was that kind of dancing? It has a certain charm about it. I think it's a shame that more people don't, you know, that seems like one part of the list of develop now. And the other one is lost. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember when we were young and had these, we just got all the new hours and parties and the antiges to get up. And they were so hot, but there were comics, you know. I mean, just lifting up the whole of Cuba and shaking it, you know, making believe they're doing amies and they're not, you know.

And they just have all these great slangs that, you know, we were fortunate to learn, you know. And we were with the first of Louisons. We got a Perkins, like Gaudi Thompson Louisons. Before they even had Louisons with the hotels. Michael had all these contracts with Gaudi Perkins. You remember that? And Tigati. Yeah. And Gaudi Thompson. And Kalaniyana, the only highway. Yeah. That's where Shirley Temple met her husband. Yeah. And that's where the Louisons was housed. Yeah. And the homes on it, I know, I know. Private homes. Private homes. And in the backyard, and we were the dancers for those Louisons. Yeah. It was really. I think that was pretty wild. It was wild. I tell you, real wild. I mean, rained out and we still were dancing. I remember one of our concerts. This was at the church hall. It was the first time we did a spear dance. Vernon and I. Oh, boy. And we just came out. And we had just dowels for spears. And when we hit like this, I hit so hard that I went right through. And I had 12 stitches on the shell. You hit me. I got two. And anyway, so I was rushed to emergency.

Really. Came back and finished the show. Yeah. We used to do the show must go on, you know. Cracked in half. Yeah. The spears cracked in half. Yeah. But we had, as I said, just so much fun. So good times, you know. And then I was fortunate enough to get in later along my life. After Mikey O'Necky, her first class. And I was fortunate to be in that class. That was very, very, that was very touching. And I didn't realize that that was going to happen to me. You know, that's when I got kind of serious. And I got, that's when I got kind of scared to think that, you know, it's going to happen. And, you know, and, you know, Mikey never did O'Necky a class. Never. That was the first class. And for her to do that, it took not all, you know. Wow, you know, I mean, that was, that was heavy. I mean, you know, from all over from her, who moves, you know. So it was very, very difficult for her as a teacher to O'Necky us.

And when that happened, after the O'Necky, we all, everybody just, everybody just went all different ways. And that's what the sad part, we weren't together anymore. Some of you have gone on to do some wonderful things. Well, again, being at the right place at the right time. But, you know, I wish we could all have, all, could go back to the nest, you know, back home to help, to, to the Halao. But she said, this is it, everybody, Aloha, you know. And I was fortunate enough I got involved with the Danny Clay, and he showed real, right there, you know. And so I was with Danny for almost 28 and a half years. We, till the last night when he closed the show, I was never into competition, never. You know, I, I couldn't judge a group.

I mean, I would feel so bad giving somebody, you know, a 10 and giving somebody an 8th. I mean, I know how much it causes and what it takes and to get the group there, to compete. So I, if I was a judge, I would stand up and give everybody a perfect 10. That's the kind of person I am. And when I asked, been asked to judge in several occasions, and I just told the committee, you know. And left the only way I'll judge if I can give everybody a perfect score. And I said, you can't do that. I said, well, I can't be a judge, you know. Yeah, so that was great. I want to go back and ask you something about that first class. If you, you know, I know that was a really significant event, not just for Auntie Mikey, but for our community, too, to have that happen. Well, do you have any idea why Mikey wanted to do that? I have an idea and I know why, but I'll just just let it rest.

It's too heavy and it's too wonderful. And again, every kumu in my class, and the three classes after me, owe it to Auntie Mikey. So Vernon, I want to ask you this question. I've asked this to everybody who we've interviewed. What was Mikey like for you? I think she was a wonderful lady. Yeah, she was the greatest hula instructor I've been with. I've seen a few, but I've been with two hula teachers in my life. My aunt Mary Ho and Mikey. And she was the greatest hula instructor I've ever was. I think we'll ever be because she's just great. And many, many hula teachers of today have learned through her. And I see the style sometimes coming out in other hula instructors. And I can see my style is coming out in it.

So this is what I see. And she's just the greatest lady. As far as hula goes, she's the number one, the tops. Yeah, she was hula lady. Mother of hula, queen of hula, that was Mikey. Yeah, she was hula lady and there is no other. There are many, many hula instructors now, but they'll never be under the Mikey. And she was the only one. I mean, she was very brilliant. She was a brilliant woman. And her moves, her carography, everything was just her costumes. Even her voice. Yeah, her chanting is so clear and so it's just perfect. Her singing is so beautiful. And she never sang like a professional singer like today. But when she sang, I told Jenny, I said, I don't know why she never recorded it. Because she had a voice. She had a beautiful voice. And a usual voice she had. And she wrote some songs. It was just beautiful songs. But as I said, you know, she's one of a kind. And there'll never be anyone that could take her place or even come close.

She was just, she was the ultimate. She was the hula lady. What was it? Maybe sometime, and when we're not around, maybe somebody will come up like her, but it's going to be a long time. Because she was the hula teacher. The greatest hula teacher they ever watched. Well, she ventured. She ventured. She just had the knowledge to do and to give the knowledge to people that could do stuff. I just feel she was blessed. Yeah, she was blessed with the hula. She really was. And as I said, we had marvelous times, I mean, God. I mean, if it wasn't, I can honestly say, it wasn't for her. Tuney really wouldn't have been anybody. Seriously. Yeah. I owe it to her, really. She was so there for me. I mean, you know, really, if it wasn't for her, I mean, I wouldn't be a diamond head. Poppoo Circle. You know what I'm saying?

I wouldn't have been on the Danny Clay-Kinney show, you know? It seems like she had this ability to draw things out of people. She did. She did. She can bring it right out. You know? She can take a little child and just make a fabulous hula dancer out of that one child. And she just had that special quality about her teaching. I've seen a lot of teachers teaching little children and they're good. But she just had that extra, extra special something they can just bring it right out. Yeah. She just had the gift of hula. That was it. The love for the hula, I mean. I wish to go out after we used to party after clubs and gigs and stuff like that. And from the time we got there till the time we left was four hours later. This was three, four o'clock in the morning. Dancing and dancing and dancing. None stop dancing. We used to have, she'd come here with parties and dancing the whole bit, you know? And it was, oh, Allah, no more of those days at all, no more. And again, the hula today has gotten very, very gymnastics.

I mean, everything is too placed, too placed. The motions are too placed and the men are dancing too soft and the women are dancing too hard. You know? That's my opinion. That's why I could never, never be a judge. You know what I mean? I mean, when we danced for sneaky, for Mikey, I mean, it was from here up the projection. The hands always closed, closed and slapped and closed hand on the hip. But now the guys are all the way down. I mean, you know, the girls up here and the guys are down there, you know? And it's okay, but it's not my forte. Yeah. I wasn't thought that, you know? Yeah, times have changed. Yeah, times have changed. I mean, you know, in a way for the, sometimes for the good and sometimes not for the good. Yeah. Well. Yeah. Okay. Okay.