Northern Gardening; Rusty Schmidt

Welcome to Northern gardening here and your host Paula Sunda. And I'll have a guest rusty Schmidt today. He's a forest ecologist are a landscape ecologist. Last week we had forest folks and now are talking about landscaping and he'll be with us this hour as we talk about rainwater gardening gardening and water management kinds of things and in reference to gardening will be with you for a full hour if you've got a gardening question give us a ring at 3 8 7 10 7 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. And glad to have you on the air. Rusty really glad to have you. Folks Rusty is a co-author of the book plants for storm water design and that's a free publication from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. If you go to their Web site you'll find information about that in fact you can actually if you really want to. The whole thing. I don't know rust is everybody. Anybody ever done that. Printed the whole thing out of their computer. A lot of work and I'm really impressed a coauthored that with Dan Shaw and I understand you're working

on another edition that will not be through the Minnesota Pollution pollution control agency but the colleges to has a lot of experience working with rain gardening stormwater design. He's worked nationally for instance he's the tech technological expert for the project for 10000 rain gardens in Kansas City which is both Missouri and Kansas and regionally. He has done some projects that we maybe more familiar with the bay front festival plantings in in Cook County he's done some things and Caribou Lake area judge Magni area. And so he is familiar with the Cook County and Lake County soil conditions and thanks Rusty so much for joining us. And hello Rusty you're still there. Well I am here. Well that's good. Well tell us a little bit about what I understand stormwater design and ring garden. Maybe you could give a little definition of what that is for our listeners. OK third with just green going green during

the shallow depression within and drainage way it did the job of a normal garden where normal during it and it ended because this is kind of a little bit shallow depression doesn't have to be very very large and you'd be disappointed with very green plants that don't mind having a little extra water and then I always try to say that we want to put them in a drainage away because when what happens is when the water comes into that into that B and when you have a lot of rain like wheat again. No way do we have to let it continue on its way going to a direction in it but that's pretty much a good description of a rainwater going in in another storm on the designs. There's the the wide bringing these different things that are filtering water or cleaning water. They can be in little base and or two

or large be like a dry pond or a wet and so there there is you know it I don't know how many different kinds. Probably 20 or 30 different kinds of design elements that you can use and and including. The fun thing with way different kinds of things that allow water to drain. So if it's an old technology but coming along quite frankly so someone is interested in exploring this what are some ideas that they could do like for instance just on a regular household or if they were interested in doing say arrange some of the basic things that the homeowner can do and and and and I guess I'm going to fair enough with a couple of big things with just being smart about your yard by doing things like you know the way whether it's from dogs or leave if you are on one of the major

streets make sure that you're moving away from the street not only in the Great Glass I mean the grass looking into the street. Because what happens is when it does rain and allows that water to take that the grass cookies and leaves and whatever else might be in the gutter out through our lakes and green and then some other things that are maybe one step up would be you know washing your car in the line and something like that so those are kind of the little things that you can do in your own yard. But if you want to go to the next step further a couple good little things that you can do. They're pretty easy. One is a rain barrel which is that my grandfather used to have one at the cabin which is the detail in there I had bad the downfall of the house in the gutter filled up the guy filled up that barrel and when it got dry out of the Get on the bottom that you can you can use the water in the garden and it takes just you know it's 50 gallons it's not a ton of

water but it's less water that is going at it. Things other parts that you can get those off of like the web a lot of web pages and a lot of the main ones that have covers in the whole word bad. In the midst of it and then the next step the next four and then I would suggest the brain going or you can find the need to plant the tree. More of our native plants have deeper for temperatures and the weather that they are in here and then the rain going to the next step but the happiness of all the question in the yard were not me you know wetland there anything like that in the small depression the let the water infiltrate and we want that water to infiltrate and before the day the well the question and we garden and then you do the garden with it in so the name is really what it is. The rain water go inward trying to capture a little bit of rainwater and

infiltrated You know the tangled mass. So what kind of plants you mention things that are comfortable with having some wet feet occasionally. Well a good general rule is planned would be that we'd wind plant bed late average in moist soil moisture and if you can look in the almost all of the gardening that the nursery indicate what that is or if you're looking for a nursery catalog you can do that as well. They usually but then the end and then you get that those are the plants that you don't want to put in the bottom of your rainwater during some of the more beautiful ones that like the bottom of rainwater gardens would be like Marsh milk we do our job. Blue Flag iris or Cobras are those are those there are. Beautiful flowers that like the bottom of the rainwater going and if

you and they're the only negative is that they all get with Brown that the blues player but the other three do get a little bit taller and then there are some varieties that get a little bit shorter so you can look at some other variety of plant so you can go buy weed you can look at the chocolate or the gateway variety thing and get a little bit further along the sides of the guy you want to look at plants that like average dry. Boy am I stupid. Not going to get it wet very often though as a general rule both there are a bunch of good plan that they would look for and then of course you want to look for a plant that work well in your knee in your in your area build up would be where were you guys are even doing three you would like to look at three plants. Or if he didn't get his own for a plant that you have to protect a little bit more it will bit more meaning for time. Make sure you keep it alive here in the cities and you know I'm looking at them for can use some of those on the plant

and then in zone 5 plants then I have to prick protect those rights. It all depends on where you are and and then. Look at that those plants that would work in that situation. The only other thing that I would add is native plants tend to be a little better than non native plants in this situation one is that they're getting used to the environment they're used to getting you know wed bring in a little drier summer and the temperatures that we have here in Minnesota and then the other part don't mean that they have typically have been the hope of our beach and then the other thing is that they and about a third of their bread or they lose a third of their vote every year leaving a hole in the soil that in the soil allows more water to infiltrate and actually you infantry infiltrate more water with native plants over the native plants

and so that much of their roots are in there every year they especially the prairie one more B B and they have a little deeper the native plant and they have the them and and then well and we grow every year and will indeed leave a whole lot more whole in the foil for infiltration to continue to grow. Emma think about it that pot that you have in the window with your plant in it when you first put in that first little plant in your pod and you pour the water in it. Isn't easily put on the tab for the first day or two and can take a little bit and then once the plant stablished in that pod You're quite a lottery and it goes right through into little bits from the bottom of the same type of thing it you know has a role and they lose grip and grow more roots there at the end of the soil and the water actually infiltrate very quickly.

So now I'm thinking about some of these rainwater gardens in picturing where they would be located on your property and assuming that you're not putting it right underneath the eaves so they're going to get pounded by rain so there's that. Is there some sort of control about this. Yeah that's a good question. The location is to be the big I guess the first thing is that you want to put it in a location where you're actually going to receive water you don't want to put a rainwater Gehring. At the top of the hill where you know I can and where it's going to get any water except for what falls from the sky. It would like to put it in a you know wave that it came more water and what I like to use is taking the water off of the aura of the gutter and directing it toward bad. I have built right next to my home in Minnesota if you have a good basement you know getting water into it already putting a ring very near your house is not a detriment. It actually is holding the water away. The water is going to take the path of least resistance. But

if you do have a basement that werent doing so well in the older boy or it has a crack or whatever or you do have some kind of water problem then I would tend to put that in the end be the way and that way you're holding the water away from the house and infiltrating a little further away. So how are you getting the water to drink. If you're taking it on. You can do it a number of ways. They be easiest if you have a gutter system to do this run the gutter out bad to the rain gutter and you can do it either above ground or below ground and with plastic black plastic things. If it is a biggie and you don't have a gutter with them a shallow depression run you know I hate to use the word dead but because it has bad connotations but that's really what you're trying to do is just create a small channel that the feeling is deep and it doesn't have to be very wide and you just need to make sure that it runs

away from the house and in that hearing there in the cold a little ways you can decorate it with rock and you need the eaves so it blasting boiler Lancer things around and you can continue to add in the range area to make it look like like a dry creek bed or something like that so you can make it look good and beautiful but it's still playing a function and if you do have water that is potentially getting around here in your basement and with that ammo with it will be a blast to play fast to do. Much easier than clay a bit you know. A little bit and let that water go away. Wow. So we've talked a little bit about your earlier you mentioned some of the stormwater concerns So really this sounds like something in particular that folks who live on lake shores are are well along Lake Superior that cities would be really encouraging folks to do things like this. There is a lot of cities that are encouraging putting in the rainwater and

then for a number of reasons. You mentioned earlier the idea that maybe they're trying to build during the next three years that they're invested and they're doing it because the flood control they're trying to do that. They have a major issue with their with flooding and so what they're trying to do is capture a portion of that water in where the water land and by encouraging more and more people to do that. You're actually pulling more water out of the dome and decrease the amount of funding the city of Minneapolis is also encouraging people to put rainwater going in in the in the city of Minneapolis is doing it by I'd be creasing that their own water fee so there is a storm water fee that every property has in it in relation to how much impervious surface that you have on the property how much room and driveway and

sidewalk and things like that and if you can put in a rainwater gathering there will be a portion of that storm water and then other places like the city of Maplewood Minnesota and actually included you in here with me is to go to the Maplewood Minnesota website. They have a rule road section for a good portion of their of their road meaning that they have a road that high in the center and then it goes into a ditch with no curb and gutter on the side and then they put rainwater going down the curb down that that dips put them in front of everyone home. And what that's doing is creating water infiltrating their clean water and they have actually improved the water quality where the water is going down the drain and the city of Duluth is in the process of building a water garden a little bit different. It actually trains retain water instead of letting the water infiltrated. But they're doing the

same type of thing is the project down by the front of the whole park that is being billed to you and double man water part of the park and then being in the water that's going into the lake with more on it in things like that that they're trying to work on you. Good thing they now hold a little bit of water for flooding and then the other big portion is that they actually clean the water. The best way to clean one is to run it through the oil and or the water down to clean it and much cleaner. Going through the groundwater. Do you mean only when it does. Going over that there had been a problem with him on the way. Where does Dawn where either traditionally go when it runs down the street does it. Besides heading off into the lake necessarily depending on where you are going into his daughter system where does that go. Yeah it depends on where you are and you know in the world more

the water coming out of your street is going into a hedge big and going out in the rebuilt somewhere and it does get some cleaning and then it overflows out to a to the lake and green that but it will go a way of doing things but I do know that a lot of the farm water pipes end up going straight out to a cream or two away so there is some direct and then there is quite a bit more space to try to capture in the main thing. Seventies it was the federal law that they would try to do what in the end every time they redo something they put in a pond and it was sold in your car and then you are the for national urban runoff pollution. Program can't know what they were trying to do with capture that water and clean it before allowing it to go further on. So that is

typical but it's not everywhere and not all of the horrible editions of the plate have the opportunity to put them through a lot of water in the park. Well if you just tuned in we're speaking with rusty Schmidt he is co-author of plans for storm water design and he's a landscape ecologist. And if you've got questions about rain gardens ourn and using stone water for gardening give us a ring. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. Glad to answer your question and gives you an opportunity to talk to Rusty and and ask him about some of the plants that they're working on. You mentioned that you're working on a book to maybe tell us a little bit about Book 1 and then why you feel like you need a volume to help. OK our first our first volume Dan and I wrote a book about a hundred and thirty more native plants. I'm going to Florida about 95

to 99 percent of them. You would begin along the North Shore. Oh it's very fitting up there as well as down here. And the book was we're really looking at what kind of water what even coloring to do all the plants and don't you know we were so the name of the book is really looking at how much how long the duration and how frequent in these plants be flooded and that's really important by putting the determiner which plants work well in a door along the edge of a pond there are on the lake shore or along the River Oregon and rainwater Gehring and things like that and then all the other scenarios and so what we did is we looked at 131 plants and put this together and it's been very well. You've been and and. Then used by a lot of people

to determine what plan worked on and the designers and but it really isn't towards rain Daryn that really is about all the different aspects and so Dan and I have been continuing being asked about rain water going and so we decided that we're going to write a volume 2 in just that a good thing going in. We're trying that we're creating another 7 DVD player or in the process of writing right now and the reason why the number of plants isn't been determined yet is because of the research that others have done as well as ourselves. So we're still you know pouring together a little bit of information here but that will be a second volume about it and some of the plans will not be native build be the gold manicured plant you'd find in more yards like you've been high and still be. But then also another larger portion of them will be a new plant. Well so we're adding to

that into Volume 2 and are adding to volume on it in the phone is dead. But we're working on no that's an ambitious project and timeline you're hoping we're hoping to be done by October but. We've already been delayed a little bit and finding your gift and I don't want a problem bad but that was our goal. And who is publishing this data is NOT been determined yet either we because we're doing it differently the first one was published by the state of Minnesota with you again this time we're looking at doing it a little differently and we've we've got we've received grants from other places and so it's not the same. We can actually publish that and actually try to sell it this time and so it's a little bit different than having been determined on them.

But we're going to publish that by well you should think that different areas would have different kinds of plant specifications. So this is going to be specifically for northern Minnesota from Minnesota in general Minnesota in general. Even though we have Zone 3 and zone for running through Minnesota we are choosing plants that are a little bit. It was only three and I kind of allowed everyone be working with the book and we were really trying to make it a regional book the first quarter was for the upper Midwest and we're trying to do the same here and that way if it applies to more and more people are really trying to make it a more readable book. Well I should think too if you were growing a plant that you felt needed a bit of extra protection would there be a concern about covering up something and then because of the additional moisture would that mold or is that more of a concern

with some of those border plants. Actually the water is actually helping the plants that usually the the extra watt unless you are really in a position where is getting into the water all the time. It usually is the water one of the benefits to me helping protect the plants and putting them in the rain water during the night. Usually an issue of the other birds do it is the rainwater dairy and usually are the first thing the last thing they freeze the first thing in the spring because of the added mold they water that going into it. It seems counterintuitive but it is a really big day today and it's just like the wetlands are also the last thing the freeze in the first thing to the game. Same with aerial water actually it went well or even quite It didn't

go through with it but that actually would have room for you work in the winter. Well they were lower but they were in the winter. I think as I think about when they say there's a danger of frost if there's any way you can missed your plants all night with water keeps them from freezing so I guess that does make a lot of sense. Yeah yeah yeah but I was just looking up on the website for the minister. Minnesota Pollution Control Agency for the plants for stormwater design and they mention that there aren't any more copies available in print but there's certainly the electronic version as I'm looking through the Table of Contents that's rather impressive amount of information that you put together and kind of interested in some of the environmental influences you're talking about. Even pollutants and toxins could you address that a little bit about what the benefits of the stormwater designer. Yes the rain want to caring really trying to do when the best things about rainwater going by using soil they clean more oil is more

important in the plant. Actually in that respect than coal Well they clean the water that's going through it and one of our best cleaning agents actually eat people actually absorb a lot of the heavy metal and the vital carbon the oil and petroleum products. And so if the Big Bad is with that and then by having the Depression where we're capturing them and we're getting to be very well. So over it very very really capturing more of the things the food water with in the Marine want to go and so then we added what plant will handle certain and then be as you're putting those good things in the rainwater going you need to consider what plants will be fine with having a little extra iron in the water or something like that. And so those were the reasons we chose to leave and the reason why we chose to put that information in with the book to well what we do if you have

a lying along the roadway and you're getting extra salt or if you're camping more iron than normal. Bill Adair of the unit that will help would be good to me you know what plan will work well in the rain water going and then the land that that I want to put into that is that rainwater going to work in clay soil as well as the air and the band the oil and the oil work a little better of course. But Clay and you build the work and they work well wiring of the roof and with the oil at the beginning and you know that they didn't need to be a little bit shallower so at another aspect you know how much water you can clean and how much oil and allow the water infiltrates groups who are speaking with us about plans for storm water in particular rang gardens.

And we're just going to take a quick little musical break and we'll be back with you. You're listening to Northern gardening here on WTOP and glad to have you with us if you've got a gardening question give us a ring. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 will be back in just a minute. It was.

I am. With you or. With. You or and. Yes. With you. And you're listening to Northern gardening here on WTOP we're glad to have you with

us. And speaking of glad to have you with us we're listening to her we're speaking with rusty Schmitt and his land scape ecologist and they're talking about rain gardens and storm water management in Lake Shore gardens. And if you've got a gardening question give us a ring. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 we can put you on the air. I think well maybe we can't from here but we can actually take your question because it is sitting in a studio and she'd be happy to write that down so you can ask a question as we talk about some of the rain gardening aspect. Rusty maybe you could describe specifically how do you build a rain garden. Because of the despoiled that you have along the way there is with the red clay the mean heavy toil. The best thing that you need to do or the first thing you should do is actually dig a hole the size of a coffee can and fill it up with water and

in the one walk away for a little bit and then come back and and then go back up to the top and then put a mark down for instance but we usually do it to put a popsicle stick for a good day at the top of where the water is and then walk away for a very specific amount of time. So let's say one hour and then you come back again you see how much water has gone down in an hour. And so here is the only bit of math is that it is if the water has gone down one quarter of in the end in an hour through print and then that means that it would go down an inch in four hours or six hours or six inches in one day and that's the bit that's the important part is in one day how much water will infiltrate will go down into the soil and with a big since it is in the warm day then you dig your brain Daryn I'm only going to be. Though

that the water will infiltrate in one day if we do not want to breed mosquitoes we have enough of them around here so they do so by making sure that the water infiltrates in the day. It's a good way of making sure that we're not going to breed mosquitoes and also get help with the plant. Bad The want the plants are not getting in the water for a long time we're now building a wetland or a water garden that is the rain going a little bit different and so and that's probably pretty typical in your area. Probably four to eight inches of water in one day is probably pretty typical with the with the clays that you have but then the next bit is where do you put it and you probably would have the best dates you know somewhere where you're going to collect water. So for instance at my mom's house in the woods with we did is I directed the phone off of the front of her house toward the front yard and built during in the front yard near her picture

window of her favorite spot and then right at the soil I can only go about 4 to 5 inches down on paper that I could build the rainwater Daryn. And then I planted it with. It was a small garden and I planted the entire remainder in there with Marsh milk leave because my favorite favorite animal of the monarch butterfly and her brain for every picture window in the picture window that only the top put there so the plants are in the window and so in the book you know the window he sees a lot of monarch butterflies and from mid summer and collect caterpillars and all I can fill him in fact at the rate payment for their time of on I get and you could walk to buy it and you'll pick up 50 monarchs of pretty things so it's a model.

It doesn't have to be. Did Is it really a train to be in the right place. And so then I made that five inches deep. When we get that big rain event no idea when we get that big rain event where we get 5 inches and a half a day or something like that. It will fill up the rain and overflow. And in my in my mom because it just overflows down the hill into the street and so you get a peep at the direction lowering the water to go in the same direction and that's really all there is to it. And then the last bit is the by how much area is all dependent on the one that well in your yard that is if the very first informal at the garden. I don't really concern me how big it is. It really is making sure that death is great and that you have a direction when the water gets to be too

much. Have you ever looked at him and saw that this guy had been the only. And so the only time that I really worry about the five of a rainwater going is when I'm dealing with water coming out of a tree or coming are of a like a parking lot for a church or a business. If something like that and it was in the very dealing with trying to have a certain amount of clean water I mean are they a preferred partner afterthought in our north or north line. Then I would really recommend that you be a landscape architect or engineer to help you know with things that do it and making sure that you do everything else correct. And then one of the things that you said Be might recommand is actually replace the foil underneath the rainwater Gehring with an engineer. The oil the oil abandoned you can't really and then put in a pipe underneath that so that it really clean

the water as a filtering through and then back to the pipe. They don't really make a bath at that big dream and I really would recommend if you're going to do that. Hire a landscaper factor in here that know what they're doing. Well it seems like a lot of things to take into account the size of the. There's a certain amount of square footage the size of a parking lot. There's also square footage. That's a should be able to determine the amount of water that's going to be producing right. And like icing a bath tub would be kind of a drop of drag. Yeah yeah and that's just it if you're dealing with a lot of surface area you know the bigger the rain going the better it is. But went for the local homeowner for my yard for the door and my mom there or whoever it really is to me that aren't fit to your land. You don't need to make it you would. Whatever you lack of room for along the driveway or a is positive and

you don't have to go. My trip will my my biggest concern for the homeowner to do especially a do it yourself or just to make sure the damp of fret that you don't have water sitting there for a long time. Now if you are running a pipe like you say you are using your gutter and it's run down the side of the house and then you like to have that go under the ground. How do you clean that to keep debris because invariably that's a an activity that happened a couple times years cleaning up the gutters. He had been and they understand they were incompletely because my maple tree just dropped all of the helicopters until the ball like gutters. So yeah so it did. That is something man invented does occur and one of the things that I have done is either you can make sure you put on the go gutter covers whatever you want. You know there's a whole bunch of different kinds of brand names out there. Those do work for the other possibility it or the other thing that I have always done is to get

him up there with my hold on one hand and break that down and in the wash it out and then at the end where the gutter comes out in my rain water Daryn in my own home or my own yard. Then I just pick up all the debris that come out of the pipe at the end of the pipe. It does that you know that the quick and easy way that I do it and that a great painter. But you know it is in the works quite well and you keep that in mind when they're planning their garden. Some some way of making sure that that water isn't interrupted that were great and I want to thank the plants. But I guess you know they're very good this is bad. You know we are talking a little bit about me in Maine and I would probably want to add that in the Garden Arena going in for the same amount of maintenance as any other government. The first year's worth you get a bunch of weed you have to you know get everything planted in you in the putting in quite a bit of all the second year the bun

half the bad and if you continue to add more to your rain garden then the garden will really regulated a little bit in the plant will fill in the days. There's not a really good spot for weeds. They come up and when we do come up that really in the in the mob and they are easy to pull and so. And by the third year you're just adding like any inch of mold every year at the top dress but make it look good and then unfold that we you know for that we'd like once or twice a year as you need and so that they really are just like any other Daryn that we do that and then the model I always use is shredded hardwood molds because it's a little bit heavier than the shredded intertwines with the other and so it doesn't want to use the tip or the bar or behind it can

it you may have mulch and it doesn't be a very much good dam because it makes what the one end of the brain barrier and so on but I don't have none of the other for that horrid word mold is the way to go with with the bolts on that. Yeah. Well those are good suggestions and I know there are some mulch sources here locally. And number one of them is heads from lumber mill and. But you need to talk with them about whether it's shredded I know they do they say they have chips you know they do some of things but so the distinction between the shredded versus the chips unless you happen to have a shredder and you're right. Right right. Like to talk a little bit about some of the shoreline type gardening that sometimes we've got you know wetlands up along the shore or whether you're gardening up near the lake because your water source is nearby. What is some of the issues that people need to be concerned about when they're working near a water source whether to well under a lake.

OK one of the first things that are we have men and everyone is for life. Mark you have been a photo you said we don't have all the foils. They're pretty pretty pretty good with good organic but you don't need to fertilize much when you do it. But what I would do is actually take a little bit of your soil here and have a good. I know about the universe you have and they have been in service to the bat for ever but I'm not exactly sure who in your neighborhood would actually be. Well but you haven't done it in a little bit of research will find someplace. I know what it actually quite often and sometimes I'm there for a good deal and then once you know what you're Boyle like. Story is lacking in a debate with your foil wagging and fertilise with only what is needed or if it needs a little bit of nature in but it doesn't really need for it but it's been in Minnesota and a little bit. Damn him and I would actually get a

fertilizer for your lawn man as he has the nitrogen and phosphorus and has no morals. Lol I mean very nice we didn't have them but has no more lol by birth which is pretty typical in the area that is really very early and in green green with the old people who are really getting in there. If we can limit the amount of fun in the way that that's a big step then the other part to it is actually I would recommend you going after another book where you be at its peak even for wildlife and and water quality and it may be the truth. We're Carol Anderson and you and and it is produced by the DNR and they also have read it for why I'm late. Indeed

you can get it electronically as well and it's really a nice way of understanding too. Killed in a land near your lake or pond and you know where you're doing the right thing or that there is a lake or what's going in the way and then one of the things that they are highly recommend and I do as well is that you don't bowl away up to the edge of a grave a buffer and if that's the way you plan that are already there or need to plan for or a guard that allows the water that I'm enough of your property you will be the third through before it gets fully and the best thing you can do and then the last thing in the village last thing that is maybe a bit of creating that big D having a fad where you can get your body in an hour and have a mat for the kids on a beach but don't do that all of them.

Maybe then you could happen to be in the valley in the native plant. The bullrushes and I refer to and the cat tails and things like that that might be in the way. What does the title of that book that you're recommending. It's probably good going for a while if you hold on one second. I will hold it to myself here and give you the exact title. OK it's good if you just tuned in we're speaking with rusty Schmidt here in north northern gardening here and if you've got a gardening question particularly related to water give us hearing 387 ten seventy or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 and did you find your book. Yes I do I have it right but to me at least it being for wildlife and water quality produced by the Department of batteries for the Emmy voters. Carol Henderson Carolyn Carol and

Carolyn kindler and Brad Rutter No. And also we've been asking that live in this area too that's kind of interesting. And Henderson and Bill Henderson is the director of that. That's not being Department Whitely. As you talked about the buffer for the some of the plants for instance if you've got a lake shore property some folks have got a pretty steep lawn and this is their way of innocence to create because they call weather storm water management or even rain garden type situation at the base of that lawn. To help with that buffer Yeah you can in that buffer you could make that right put the remainder in that buffer and it put in a shell of the press to capture that water we forgot the public and then to have an opportunity to.

Have a garden is a lake. It does two things one to make that lake sure Manny cared about being in it and maybe in that mode always do the ads but I think that will look very beautiful manning it but going in and using your imagination with their beds in a single while be put in the rock and trees and shrubs and and plants and and really make it a beautiful lake beds but the big thing is that what you're doing is actually in the water before it gets in the way. Your point of pollutants in the fertilizer then and whatever else might be in that water that's moving through and have to get there before it gets in the way and then that includes things like the grass could be in the state and do damage to the water quality. Well I was reading in the are getting gardening book that Donna in Minnesota was listed as that their number one problem with pollution in the water is from phosphorus and a lot of that is from the fertilizer so this is really a big issue.

Whether a household or business that is cracked it the phosphorus is the biggest issue in Minnesota. And believe it or not the second biggest issue along the Mississippi River is back to the Minnesota River is actually progress but it will go. We're going to go out but go up a bite of your car. But also a big butt. But you know I had to think about what goes in your very own everything you're getting and you're like the river doesn't want. Yeah well and the rain garden seems like you're in storm water type things seem like a good a good solution for that. As we look at some of our rescuing wetland areas as in if somebody has got somewhat of a wet area already is there a way they can can help that kind of be reclaimed as a wetland in your typical West was a little bit tricky. Sorry.

As we're looking at the shortage ironically a shortage of wetland in some areas I know the there are processes when you're building to to trade lands if you want to build in a wetland when you're trading that for another wetland somewhere else but if you have something on your property that was a wetland or seems really wet Is there a way you can turn that into a wetland that's healthy not necessarily reading a lot of mosquitoes. Yes well there's a couple things there and and trying to figure out the best way to approach the women is definitely a concern and we do have the Clean Water Act that is protecting them now. And so that we're not creating more damage than wearing very things or other systems that don't really stick Webware in the end. And what wasn't really do or the there's the best filter of the cleaning the and the water

and the point on a lot of that before above the water and you want to play it in regards to this trying to decrease the amount of the you goes with with wet when I don't really see how that is going to be the biggest thing in a wetland that reading that you know is the water and it's not a wetland anymore it is there. Literally that's true. And so you know it doesn't really quite work in that respect though them in a mosquito control. You can see we have been working in different the different chemical that is in it between mosquito growth and things like that. But I'm not sure to want it and how far they go out and pray or try to treat you know. So I know that there are some in there but I think that to deal with this

kind of thing that from the wetland planet can't think of anything other than drying up the wetland would ruin the wetlands. And then what's a wet swale. But what was it what's a wet swale how wet whales have a what. Well it is it is a dead that is wet more of the time so it is a good way to continue to move water along the system. What was that down. It's still true that it's doctored on all the things that are in the water. And so it's a good way of allowing that water to continue on its way and clean it on in as it's going by. And then what about some more like plant considerations for some of the different. Talk a little bit about that but. You know the difference between maybe right. And maybe some goldenrod would be working well for term water management or rain water.

You can get. Yes and yes bet always or die good or they read good big diagram it is a great plan for all the different ways of dealing with storm water and want to hand over a lot of the poop. It does really well with that and the other part of it is that a lot of water and in fact you really can't fill it with putting too much water in it unless you're having it in the water and a few feet for the entire year. It really is a good candidate for putting in all of those things in goldenrod goldenrod that did all the parent to be BS of goldenrod and a couple of them and I'm going to prevent is a big big golden rod. Here's a shade loving. Goldenrod you know that I'm not very big and I would love being near a ring

Garner within the range of or any other form want to be flying is that it dries out in about a day in the rain getting dragged out of a day of doing pretty good and the other one or the another one would be riddled golden round or golden rod again in the camp of rain there in the order or at the time that I did or whatever drive in a bus had been to the plant will do fine with that as well so both are a couple of them and then of course the wet when the one with the giant golden rod bent on the really low water and actually doesn't really work in a ringer and because it dries out so much for him. They would prefer the weapon more along the edge of a lake shore like that we're getting in the water. It's interesting because a lot of times I think of goldenrod as being a dry land. Plant the seed on a lot of times on the side of the road in the dried ditches so are

there different varieties that prefer dry so Isles. Yeah yeah there's a hole pretty much all the other go where I've been I don't know how many variety is there I think there's about 50 different to do it here and Im going to prefer to like it a little bit on the dry side. So it really depends on the different different varieties or the event that you are dealing with. Do you have some sources where you can find things like stiff golden rod or zigzag older and I do know that the prairie restoration of them started a fight in the area. Oh I think of Oriole restoration there are Auriol. One of the Boreal anyway boiler series or something like that. They had you know have a lot of a good plan that are native that would have a little bit more variety

than some of your typical nurseries. There are a few other native landscape companies in the area. I'm not very familiar with going for the North Pole Duluth but I would check with your local nursery and what they can and can't do and the you know there are some things that they're willing to order or or acquire from other places and I know that there's a great number of them that have more of the native plants from the roots and then a definitely down here near the city. And so even though it might be you didn't plan to be you know a place that you would find down here going is that the zone free it to be a you know you are mentioning about city things when you talk about city projects so is stormwater gardening a good thing for cities to try to to work on to together to deal with some of their storm water runoff.

Actually dilute is already very good. We're going to train and improve water quality they have built some rainwater greens already at the University of Minnesota who have a number of projects in there and I know that you can look through their web page and find something for me in both that and I know that they are doing some cleanup and other things along the road with bands and different volunteer projects so they are working on trying to improve water quality with all the streams and and river going through they're going through that but it's a beautiful day to be ruinous will be with with water quality and most people that are out there are interested in mean in their environment. Well that's been an issue in the grammarian got a lot of runoff coming off of our here down towards Lake Superior and there is that what's referred to as the village ditch which I think was renamed to sweet grass.

Creek let's say. Still just a ditch. And those are big issues as well for all that water is managed and maintained. And then maybe some of these ideas will be be helpful for folks. Yeah I think there will be a lot of opportunity there or in the water down for Bear Creek and running that water a little bit or putting in little little regard for things like water in your water Bob. Well resting on it. Thank you so much for joining us we've been speaking with rusty Schmitt Tuesday landscape ecologist and been sharing with us a lot of information about storm water design and I sure appreciate you being with us. And Birchbox Whoops sorry I encourage folks to to maybe take a look at some rainwater and thank you very much Rusty. But thank you for the pleasure.

And you're listening to the northern gardening program here on WTOP and we'll be with you. This is Friday and then also Thursday Thursday evening is a rebroadcast if you call in. We won't be able to answer your question but please leave a message and we'll be happy to get back with you. And so glad that you could join us here for northern gardening I've been your host policy. Glad to be with you and stay tune for next week's program.