Northern Gardening; Michael Schommer

Supporting her the gardening comes from Edwin you Thorson incorporated contractors working to fill landscaping needs in the north. Plan celebrating 60 years of serving. Cook. At 3 8 7 1 6 4 4 supporting northern gardening is also comes from Evergreen originals greenhouses located at 16 Portland. In Evergreen originals greenhouse specializes in and perennials for our northern climate also offering veggie herbs and a wide selection of hanging baskets tubs and planters. Information in person or at 3 8 7 2 8 6 2. And thanks so much for joining us today for northern gardening I'm your host Paula Sunda will be with you for an hour. This is a live broadcast on Friday and you're willing to you certainly can call in with your questions in particular we're talking about Gypsy monster day our phone number is 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. So we rebroadcast on the following Thursday at 4:00. And of course it will be able to call in if you're listening on Thursday. You're welcome to do so we can always

get back if you leave a message. We're joined on the phone by Michael Shermer of the Minnesota Department of Agriculture Michael thank you so much for joining us today. And that's a kind of a. Big topic and I you know I always hear her real problem. Why why are they what are they exactly and why are there problems. Sure it will get to Mars are actually in a fourth that introduced the United States are back at the scene of the what happened was there was the well meaning I get this who was trying to cross it with silkworms make it more effective. Build more and experiment kind of went awry and they got out into the trees and the area around where he lived in Massachusetts and since that time they've been spreading slowly slowly but surely south and west and really where we're at right now is the main population of the mob really poised on the eastern border of Minnesota they are

OUR it is our West got them. Typically what you see in areas with the knotted station will be the fourth station. You know it it may be an area you know we've heard about certain state parks in Wisconsin being so affected that they had to close them. But the year the caterpillar's make an awful mess they can make the trees look in July like November. So really they do have a pretty strong impact a lot of people are familiar with or Caterpillar that do have similarities. It's not but I think one of the big differences here is that it is not a naturally occurring in North America. And so it doesn't have the natural population control that evolved along side with like for us. So really the bottom line is that it's not a really trolls want to get into an environment really run wild for a while and they're doing that population. But because pretty significant damage you mention the population cycling isn't

familiar with that with the first encounter. This seems like a time when a seven or ten year type cycle this gypsy moth does have a cycle. Well he would have been that there would be some that think that would take into control I mean it would have. Not sure that we have enough information to know what that cycle would be and if so exactly there with that thought for a while there that is that there might be parts of Minnesota there too far north but I think we've seen in recent years especially with the infestation that bought it that we've seen it in Minnesota that were not quite her death nor that fortunately or to completely rule out that it is there a specific tree that they like. Unfortunately no I mean we've all heard about other Creek like Emerald Ash or that are very curious too. But that target one type of tree in that case it's the one that actually is not choosy. It'll attack pretty much anything including pine trees. If there's nothing else around so it's it's not choosy it'll attack you know hundreds of

different types of trees bushes. That's really one of the reasons why is that because there is that the general general manager. So when you're saying pine trees are you including the screws on an outer area do you know the exact list of species is pretty lengthy but it would include several pine trees are not a preferred target but it is situation where all the other leaves in the area have been have been. He may go after a pine tree as well and I'm NOT have to look at the exact list he whether those particular species are included but people would like more information about which species get attacked. There is some information available on our website at MDA that states that him and us. See state DOT DOT us. That's right and there's a search engine on there they can just type in the box but don't get a bunch of different options. OK so that's the caterpillars that are doing all the eating. I assume that they're not just crawling around the state are they getting around.

Sure well what happens is the female female get lays an egg man about maybe a dime size or quarter size or the like and the type of object to lay the egg masses on any any solid surface with in the area she can reach and where that becomes the problem is if people are camping in an area or if they have furniture long furniture outside and then they go ahead and move that to another area that's really how did they have to move it. He would lay the math about cars the side tire with the wheel well the car that we've seen a lot of different types of products that will delay the segment but anything there but the rain it will it will use and what would you end up having happen is people from that best station area perhaps they you've got people who will pick out what got the Michigan people you know go camping and fishing. Beautiful part of the country. Now you come back home

and unpack it. You know electric car set up a driveway for a little while if your car happened to be there at just the right time. It may be that it laid an egg mass in your car. Then the caterpillars emerge at the right time and you've got your own little bit station there. So what does it look like. Well it's like it is but a quarter size that is a little bit smaller than that of a round kind of fuzzy and light brown. And if people do eat something like that in their car over there and there have been equipment that's really something to do great box and throw it away. Then the other thing that really is the way that the police force like to move it through firewood that's really one of our big concern not only is it to get it off the shelf because other Forth like it all that or really one of the things that we're trying to get across to folks that the idea that moving firewood across county or especially across state lines is is really not a good idea for the environment because that could spread the base.

So tempting as it is don't bring your fairy What a great we all of course you know we're having that thing but it's probably not worth it we buy that we have it. Do you buy your firewood where you're going to have to get a part you know buy their firewood that fire would be going to be different. They certainly you know save yourself the extra hassle of packing away that firewood yourself. Buy it where it does it's a little mean sometimes the firewood and the state perks is just you know. Like what are they. They're the bark and the slabs and not necessarily the most favorite type of firewood and it's often kind of green too so it doesn't get going so the temptation to think I should just bring along some because it's so much nicer. Yeah I've been there. We go camping we do that. But now I think the argument though that don't allow you to bring in your. That's right yeah I think that's quite true and I don't know if there's regulations to going

into Canada with things like that. I'll make it remove it from your vehicle. So it's a good thing. Get out of the habit. Bring some charcoal briquettes or something. Yes there's a lot of different than what about them themselves what is their life cycle. Sure well what happens is typically Caterpillar's will emerge not really usually come here and be a little bit later but you're going to have a bargain sometime in May and it depends how far north you are. So the further north you go the state emerges probably later today and of course that brings like we have been here to actually go even to get a little bit but typically you have a very good bring the caterpillar's will get larger. They feed on the trees and then they will go into their cocoon their metamorphosis and then they will emerge as adults. Typically that will be the summer and then as adults they go around and do their mating and lay their eggs that is that that day they would die out.

What do they look like as I. Seems to me and sometime mid May I started seeing a kind of brownish smallish medium things like smacking your window in the evening is that yeah most people have a hard time telling what kind of boss. But now there's not a whole lot of really think of marking it. Well they they do look a lot like other mobs. So it's really hard to take take out the adults in that life cycle. The caterpillars are a little more distinctive and they have distinctive red and blue dots and typically people there's not really large enough for people to notice that birds only in their last sort of you. We think this is a caterpillar that they'll get big enough that people won't notice them. But the way that we monitor the reason we know that these are the is we actually have a monitoring that we set up with pheromones traps the way it works is we put out a grid that if the Department of Agriculture goes out and

puts out these cardboard little little kind of cardboard. Box is about maybe six to eight inches wide. And the grid pattern around the state and begin the side of the box you have a coating kind of the coating attract any of the mobs that go in and there's a little ceremony that mimics the male pheromones that is put out to help the binders and now by the binder basically the main male bodies that are in the area around that trap will go in and check it out and they get trapped at the end of the year our folks go out and take them down and count how many are out there and that's really our way of figuring out whether we've got an infestation because that they're just too difficult to figure out. Got it by itself it probably would be able to really notice them. Yeah. Supposed to blend in. Yeah well that's the idea you know they don't want to get picked up by the birds. So they do their best. And as you mention about birds are there any predator you said there aren't really that deeper somber Deep them you know I've asked that question before.

But some of our technical experts and the answer I get is that in the caterpillar stage when they're smaller there are some birds that will eat them but they're in their larger stages. The Caterpillar they're really very good. Yeah exactly. That actually will irritate the birds they don't like to mess with them because they're just too prickly So you know there are some birds will go after them but they're not not as many of those are naturally occurring caterpillars. Well and what about like right now I understand that Graham portage this week us just done some treatment. Sure. Well you know when we do find it infestation I talk a little bit about how we have the bottle to a different place and what we do find it in that stage and what we do is we go in the following year and conduct treatment to eradicate the population. We've actually been finding start up populations that get in the decades and we've been able to keep the pests out mainly through the method of treating the infestation when they come out.

The really the biggest one we had at birth was back in 2000 to death a applet so they can show up anywhere from the North Shore all the way down to the southeast of Minnesota. And what happened is we actually have two different ways of treating them and the first one is the one that we use that Graham ordered this week the way this works is that the naturally occurring bacteria called the K that is. Abide by airplane to the tree tops and Dick to believe that the trees and the caterpillar that are out eating will eat the bacteria that it has basically had it killed and it doesn't affect other species beyond a narrow range of caterpillars. Like it really does have a fairly narrow band of the same bacteria and is actually used by gardeners to control even you know Danica applications because it's not a chemical it's not a you know what people think of a pesticide these really have the idea of a chemical that this is actually a bacteria that area a little bit different than what

people are so about the product. I'm sorry go ahead. Well what does the BTK stand for the phrase you're going to have is that it still is certain death and that her stock Yes thank you. And so they're stocky. If I'm pronouncing that right is that different than what the gardeners use because I'm familiar with their side. If I'm pronouncing that one right. But I'm not you know I I've got to go back. Look at the record of how this would be different or similar to products that are used by gardeners but I know that as a product is used by gardeners in gardening. But yeah that's a question that we have to get back. Yes you know What's the lifespan when you put to really narrow to be actually it does not last in the environment very long and you have to be very specific about when you apply that because it is too wide or too windy or things like that and you're not really going to have an effective treatment. So they have to be very specific in terms of the conditions that they have by and the airplanes are fitted with CPS and so they're very

specific about creating only the block area and what we've done this year and in previous years is that we have a treatment like that coming up with make sure that we notify the area and in this case the treatment block but it be okay with a portion of the gram portage reservation and not. People have heard about the debate about treatment that are coming up and that's actually the second phase they'll talk about the second. But this is just that portion of rapport to the patient. People probably would not notice that the only thing they they might notice would be the sound of the airplane and usually they apply fairly early in the morning. So you can imagine that Delphine Apostolou reply that at 5:30 in the morning fly overhead This is the helicopter you know we want to make sure that we got the word out ahead of time that people didn't have too much concern about a helicopter going over the treetops that it's a good point but this is actually fixed wing up of the reported airplane as opposed to the helicopters.

So it didn't quite have the same the same sound. Why was this particular area chosen with that standpoint which Sure. Well the BTK treatment actually used for heavy infestations and that gram portage reservation is actually a heavier infestation than the other block that we detected along the North Shore. Why do you think that is you know it's hard to say. It could be that that was that the introduction there was more intense it could be that they have been there a little bit longer and and we detected them as they were getting more established. It could be that the I mean there's really a lot of different reasons it could be that they just seem to flourish in the trees and the environment they're better than in other places it's really hard to say but you know it is the second type of treatment I want to vent real quick to the pheromone like I talk a little bit about that. It's not crap having pheromones that mimic the mailbox that's the same product that used to get into pheromones play prevent the idea here is that you you apply very very small

plastic like that are you know you can you apply them by airplanes that are coated with this family and especially what happens is that you wind the male body because he uses this ceremony to find e-mails you have the environment you know with all these these little mimics gathered around he's not able to find the wheel but really it's the male model it's just the family so it ends up that the male body die out before they find a female inmate. What is it like flakes. Yeah there's a really tiny I think in both cases they're green. You wouldn't notice them unless maybe on the windshield of your car you might see one or two but they're applied at a rate of maybe one flake per. Could you imagine if he does off the tape or maybe have one late per per square but that type of thing. So really it's not a very intensive it's not like people are going to the mound the place

started snowing and yeah yeah and that's part of the problem. It's sort of the issue that before the treatments are conducted they've been conducted around the country to control devices in the states where it exists. You know there's a pretty intensive process of reviewing the environmental impact because you really don't want to create problems when you're trying to solve other problems. So you know the fourth service the USDA and a whole bunch of other partners work with work with the states try and analyze you know if we do this treatment in this area what is the impact Are there any you know that it has to be there are there any other species of butterfly or moth that might be affected. All those questions are looked at and keep. Again if there's a comment period in a whole bunch of different ways to be back to get it in and the treatment having been conducted over the years in other states have been very effective and have not had adverse environmental impact which is really good because you know they like it. And here we are trying to solve one problem you don't want to be causing another one.

So why do you think that the treatment plants aren't hurting other species. Sure. Well the the pheromones actually are to that effect. So that would be a case where there are no other species that would use that pheromone it so it doesn't impact their ability to reproduce and then the plastic plates are applied it to a lower rate and they do actually I know people have the idea plastic has never never breaks down never breaks down. These places are small enough in the formulation that they do eventually get a into the environment and I don't have the full information from me to tell you how long that takes but that is one of the things that you you know keep an eye on and so that the very limited impact of the pheromone like ours be it be the bacteria that does like it that it does affect a few other closely related species that do occur in it but the bees species that are already here will repopulate the area after the bee goes away and oftentimes those caterpillars are not out eating at that late at that late stage at the time were pretty good.

The idea being that you will have to apply it at a very specific time with a caterpillar throughout the year and a lot of those other species don't have the same overlap in terms of timing heating and light cycle. Say that there is a species that is going there but you're saying that that will repopulate then what's to stop the gypsy monster also repopulating. Well that's one of the things that that invasive pat did not present that most of the environment. So if you if you get that caterpillar that you know wiped out that in that station there are no other mobs in the area to move back in to repopulate. Problem is every year because humans are one of the ways that they move they get reintroduced. One way or another and there have been I think maybe two years ago we were maybe it was a year ago I'd have to go back and look at it but we actually did have a year where there were no wind stations and no note no treatment really. Right so that was pretty rare and it was actually my next question is how long will you have to be doing this treatment it seems to me Graham pointed to a spread last year as well.

So yeah we had pretty significant. Up there in 2000 Dick and make sure you know kind of monitoring our own effort to make sure that we're actually making a difference. After a treatment is conducted we go back in and do very intensive monitoring of the area whether there are still laws there and those treatment actually based on that monitoring were effective. So that would be good news. Unfortunately it seems to have been reintroduced. And that's one of the the real challenges is that we're not only trying to control an invasive pest we're also trying to get the word out to folks that you know we there are some things that people can do to minimize the introduction of the past. And unfortunately I think what we're seeing is we are beating it back in one area and then another at that station pops up somewhere else. So you know it's the type of thing now where I think we kind of expect that every year there's going to be a treatment somewhere in the state and we're just hoping that we can keep it at bay for as long as we can. It's but this is ongoing something a full time job. Some people are the heart of agate is where we have actually several

dozen trappers that we hire on a seasonal basis to go out. That's the trap that's been going on for as long as you know one has died at the department. Ninety one just the other day and I think they're bright orange this year OK. Yeah there's a lot of different areas of the state where we put these out but there's you know I guess the take home message for folks is if you are going camping or going to a different part of the you know the area that we can to recreate or to hunt fish camp think twice about bringing firewood with it really is just not a good bet for this but the environment is very good at that because it's just too easy to have the forest spread that way. That's unfortunate. I mean if it's down in your wheel well or somewhere that that's kind of tough for you you kind you can ask people to check birth and holiday masses but it's a lot of time the distillate that and very hard to spot areas.

If people see those as good a good idea to grate them off and not carry them with you back home because you can end up with problems maybe in your area but certainly the the easiest behavior change that we can hope to make is that people did not fire with one part of the area to another because even even like you know it is it is a big concern there are other pests out there that are all big if not bigger than the victim in that experiment. There is one of the people they have called Emerald Ash for that actually it will kill trees unless you have your you know several years of in that station or if they get really is that the tree distress is a crowded thing else. But several dashboard will kill three and that is that big right now is both that Chicago and that only attack ASCII. But in Minnesota we have somewhere north of 800 million active. So we are one of the most one of the states to vote and that really you know when it comes to democracy is a good thing to do is that firewood

rather than with the product. When you mention eight hundred different issues are you talking about different species are very. Eight hundred million eight hundred million doesn't make sense but and as a species specific other than ASH I mean there's Monash black or white or black or pretty much any at any type of bacteria don't have a favorite. But they will go after it any type of bacteria we have. Goodness. Yeah that's the big concern and I get the idea overall is that the species I mean people in the north know that because of all the lamprey all the other things that have come up over the years that invasive species there are really good environmental issues that I think people are starting to realize is a big problem. We're speaking to Michael Shermer Minnesota Department of Agriculture about another in face of invasive species. Again what does as a kind of a recap about what homeowner you were talking

about looking for the egg masses. And when is that the key time to be looking for those in time would be probably late summer the fall or even in the winter they'll go over winter. OK so you really do have a fair amount of time there to buy that. We actually sent out a book or math after the leaves are down. It's easier to believe that any time after that that number time limit. It's all about doing things. So if you've been camping over did this camping in Michigan or camping in Minnesota and you should check your vehicle over before you head back but then you should check it again. Once you get back. Well I think you know it's the time for the masses to worry about that. Probably too late but I'm thinking that time it off August time frame would probably be a good time to think that if you're out camping in October after birth I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about it certainly if

you're out in the earlier part of it likely that you're going to take that. Later become a little later. But you're out late. I mean you know to take a quick look around your car. You've got things even your lawn chair. Specially things like that. It's pretty interesting. We're going to take a quick little musical break here and we'll be back in just a minute speaking with Michael Shermer Minnesota Department of Agriculture about Gypsy Monson other in space of species. What to do about that. Here are northern gardening if you've got a question for us you can give us a call at 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 you can also e-mail Boreal dot org and do our best to get back to you. If we don't reach you today if you e-mail Well we'll certainly follow up on that song. Again you're listening to Northern gardening here on North

Shore radio will be right back. The the.

With. The Irwin. With. With through listening to Northern gardening here on Earth. Radio supported northern gardening comes from superior lumber and sports a full size lumber and hardware store located one mile east of Grand Marais Sapir lumber and sports is locally owned and offers a wide range of garden supplies patio furniture and outdoor cooking grills. More information available at 3 8 7 1 7 7 1. Gardening also comes from Buck's hardware offering a full selection of gardening supplies or options and whether Hardy annulus and perennials like your host policy. Glad to be with you this lovely Friday morning and if you're listening on Thursday so the rebroadcast Friday folks are welcome to call in with their questions. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 We're speaking

with Michael Shermer Minnesota Department of Agriculture and specifically right now about Gypsy Miles we'll talk a little bit about the emerald Ashmore as well but. Michael thanks again for joining us here my pleasure. And it could go through a little bit more some of the treatment that's coming up right now with that exactly. Talk a little bit about Grand Portage but what else. Sure well we talk a little bit about a treatment at Grandcourt a good debate that was conducted. We will be a second application of the ten days afterward it was the weather today. You're beautiful but the bigger treatment is coming up later this summer probably late July early August. What we're targeting at this point and that is using the pheromone like today that'll be treatment of several blocks. Work your way down. Grand Moray down through silver bay and there's the math available people are very interested to know more about exactly where the events that take place there are maps available on our website.

Does he get the MBA and that got us. And there's also. 800 number that people can call if they have it like you know they're in the treatment locker that has a thing and that number is 1 8 8 8 5 4 5 6 6 8 4 1 8 8 8 5 4 5 6 6 8 4 and they get clever with that number the last four digits of that number fell out because their mind was that he wondered I guess so. Yeah the treatment you know people have been contact you know we've tried to get out mail mailings to people who are actually within the treatment don't you know people who own land or who live within the area where we're going to be treating We sent out mailers post cards and meeting back in March. Try and get the word out that we know that there are people you know especially coming here who are coming back into the area after having been out for a while. So we just wanted to make sure that people had it out there.

Unity to get the information and get a man in their quest for the resources that are listed on the web page can you describe this very well you know the website has a whole bunch of different information about it in their life cycle what they look like. If I take seriously the area then they find that there's a map on the Web site that shows you how far the thing that bred New England all the way down in the Appalachians to Wisconsin it is kind of poised right at our border. So we're really kind of at the you know one of the analogies that people use is that this is kind of like a forest fire where you have little sparks coming out of starting up their own little mini fires were kind of at the very edge kind of the fire line at that point. So we're good we're doing our best to the federal government actually does that a fair amount of resources trying to fight the credit so that information is available there. Link the federal government the Forest Service has a what they call the global bread program

and then of course extensive income. Nation about the treatment that we have planted the products that are being used. So there's really a lot of good information out there and people still don't buy what they're looking for. They're welcome to call it that will help them out. And again their phone numbers 8 8 8 5 4 5 6 6 8 4. And by that I just typed in the web page you take a look at it and under tipsy math facts. Interesting to know it was actually introduced as you mention quite a long time ago in 1869 and some of the areas I said we're on the leading edge of their invasive mind. One of the areas across the nation where it's just a problem every year. Sure. Well you know you talk to people in Michigan or Ohio or Pennsylvania and they'll tell you that they're familiar with this thing and they really don't like it you know it. People imagine or think Caterpillar well that this is even worse than that. And it doesn't have many population control. So you know what every once in a while

we'll talk with somebody who is committed go to one of those states where the thing is if you're around it every year at Delta Oh yeah I know like that so you know I don't think it by area well. You know that's something that once you have a familiarity with it you're not you're not a big fan. And it goes throughout you know like I said if you look at the map on our website it goes all the way from Maine to Southern Ontario and it goes down to the North Carolina Virginia border. And the federal government is working with states in the leading edge of this investigation through their slow to read program try and keep this thing from moving any faster than it does. And it's been pretty effective and you look at that area of the country it's a big area. But if you think about it this thing is trying to spread in the 60s and we have been able to eradicate it we've been able to keep it a big part of the country where it would like to live otherwise. That's actually that's true and I think about the implications. It's not killing the trees but it

if it's defoliate ing trees that can be helpful and it should certainly be hard on nesting birds to others. Yeah it's really one of those things where in the case of Iraq it's not a death sentence but the tree but it's another stressor that you have enough stress is if you have a great drought stress tree you've got another disease working its way through or you've got another in fact you know there's only so many stresses a treat to handle and eventually might have a tree weakened enough that a strong wind will go through it it will knock it down or you get you know trees that will die because they get the they don't they are able to fight all these things so it's not that it of itself is not like a death sentence or a tree it's another stressor that it's not good for the trees. Not good for health. And then you know you really also have to understand that this when you have a bunch of these caterpillars infesting area because this is a real issue as well this is something that if a homeowner has to deal with these or if it's in a state park you know like I said when they actually had to

close a park because these things were so prevalent and their droppings were causing problems in there. You could actually hear the sound of a caterpillar munching that. Yeah it's really a very I mean it's not a minor thing anything I know in the forest. Caterpillars are at their peak. It's seriously growth. Yeah but they think that the thing you know you know not to get too graphic but the people that we've talked to from different states who have been around major stations tell us they can actually hear the sound of they're dropping like rain. Yeah and I certainly noticed that from the forest and caterpillars and that's extremely disgusting. Yes I don't want to go outside. You know you get you get them falling on the roadways and yeah cars running over them and getting you know really there's no there's no good about bicycling through them is really bad too. Yeah yeah yeah. I've actually heard people say that you don't want to take a cup of coffee out because you know your yard.

No you never know what might end up in it. Yeah even the caterpillar itself may be in it. Yes exactly. We used to have when we go out to our public meetings and explain what this is all about there is that actually one of our technical expert how do you have like a mason with formaldehyde and the caterpillars of a caterpillar that got inside look in there you think I don't want to make it clear you're my heart. No absolutely not. Now I read talking about the gypsy moth caterpillars of. Yeah yeah yeah yeah that's if you're looking you mentioned earlier that the caterpillars of the gypsy moth that have red and blue dots on it seems to me the forest tent caterpillars have just blue dots down them. Maybe I'm confused holiday I mean again it's identifying it you're going out trying to kill the caterpillars it seems a little bit like. Going after exceptions I think oh yeah well you know it's one of the concerns that people have is how can I identify that and with other force you especially like them know that or they want to know can I identify this is by the way

and it's possible and if you had somebody who knows what to look for it certainly possible to be able to do that I think I've got that. But if people have concerns if they've got a big hint that they know they have you know the caterpillar lifecycle and they want to know what all about there are folks at the county level or even the eye color the numbers they give you guidance are exactly what what or what they had pictures but you know one of the things that we often will tell people is you call your county because a lot of the county has staff on hand who are good at identifying the video and you get it ready for it to help identify them. But you know like I said there's a distinctive sort of roll of red dots that they did not Caterpillars the blue dot near by. Here's a clue that there is a head and then you're behind that you'll have that there's a red dot. Now that would be at the cycle of the box with the caterpillars thinking that is really the.

You know very well that and look at the web page too they really are furry they're nasty. I would want to read about that. I understand why the birds don't want to pick. Yeah I can see it's really Graham. Maybe think of something else and I'm forgetting what it is oh dear. We're talking about the I know as far as that not a death knell for the Forest Service for the forest have gypsy moth that is certainly annoying for people and for the trees obviously but let's talk a little bit about the emerald ash borer because that's you're right that's far far more critical you know kills trees your emerald asked for the good news but it doesn't prohibit many. The bad news is that when it does get into an ash tree it is a death that what it does is the adult lays its eggs on the bark of the ash tree and the larvae burrow into the layer of the tree that the nutrients around and so what it does is it kind of feeds through that layer and

creates this tunnel a kind of tunnel through that part of the tree and in doing so it disrupts the tree's ability to move between two rats. Basically it's treated and every old Asheboro is not present in Minnesota yet it's known to be close to us as the northern suburb of Chicago. But there's real concern because this thing can move in there with the way it oftentimes will move is you'll you'll have a dead tree in your yard and maybe you know you don't know why the tree died. You got that down or closed down or whatever you turn it into firewood and then you call that firewood somewhere. And then you will unpack the fire would you let it sit outside as well as whatever location you brought it and emerge that would fly around and do their thing and that's starting up a whole new life cycle that's a really big concern and they think that the way the test actually arrived in North America was very similar to that it actually made it to Asia and what happened they think is that it came over to

the United States in a packing crate you know they packing them. So what they think happened is that a crate with sent over to United States probably the Detroit area that had borrowed it that it and the larva emerged in the Detroit area and nobody knew what the test was so they didn't know to look for it. And so there's this problem with ass Creek area they called it X decline and they think well you know what's going on with the ASCII. Well then finally somebody saw one of the adults and they booked on line and they actually determined that it was the ephemeral dashboard which is made of the kind and parts of Asia and that started the whole process of oh my gosh this is a new path. What are we going to do. So now they've actually had the collation in the 70s. They beat Michigan Illinois Indiana. Some of the other states the They've actually what they do is when they find an early and that they should be they don't have a really good way to call it like we do with it

in my eyes. Though they have cut down the X trees within about a mile radius of that of that infestation as a way to try to create a buffer so that pest can't move. Course the problem with that is that if you have people who think that the firewood can move the pest can move it that way it can move across state borders within a few hours so that you know we talked a little bit earlier about the importance of not moving firewood important when it comes to the box. But it's absolutely crucial when it comes to embroil dashboard because we do with out hunt that in Minnesota where we've got 800 million asked. Yeah well if you're cutting down all those trees people that we can use this for firewood. Right. Yeah that's you know if you're burning it right there it's probably not that big of a deal but if you're hauling it across the line or you're going to be part of the country that's potentially a really big problem. Well and looking at the web page on this it's rather just a teeny weeny Caterpillar an entrance hole in the tree is so minimal you would take a magnifying glass to an ash tree on a regular basis to determine if it were there.

Yeah that's one of the challenges with the emerald ash borer not as obvious of an infestation about it. If they make a big mess of a big and kind of know that they're there. Yeah. Where several dashboard is a lot more subtle than it will be and in the trees doing its damage or you know it. And so if you do see tree damage there's just nothing you can do about that. Well actually I'm glad you asked that we have. Because people are asking questions and want to know more about what emerald ash borer looks like and what it damn it. You know what is the sign of an emerald ash borer infestation we actually did create a part of our website that walk people through that kind of a tutorial. As far as you know if you do have it you monsters get ever all that or what with the sign. What does the adult look like and then you know what other other than that the act created that it that you know people want to go online and look at that. Certainly they're welcome to it are made with Debbie Debbie Debbie ADAT and da de da and then you laugh and then type in the third bend in Emerald Ash or that

novel going to be worth it or b o r r so you know to check you know check that out. People have been there and certainly we're happy to take calls and talk with people about it. If there is an infestation that we would rather have people call us and then let us know then turned out that it's not a date and that people we actually do have and that they know about it felt better to get it early before it as a threat. Yeah that's really quite true the beetle itself that emerges on the top part of the page looks kind of black but later you know another picture that's quite emerald colored which makes most sense is that another is that there's any treatment. Well unfortunately we don't have good treatments develop them all back or the way we do could get in MA. They are working on the thing. Better looking fairly hopeful but our goal at this point if you have rolled back or out of it and you know for long as we can and the hope is that if we buy ourselves enough time the scientists who are working at it will be able to come up with effective

treatments that don't require cutting down trees that are in the area so you know we're just buying ourselves as much time as we can and hopefully by the time it becomes an issue in Minnesota we've got to get better treatment will develop into it. Michael what are predators. He said This is from China and one of the predators there. Well you know I don't know a whole lot about how it how it fits in with the ecosystem there but my guess would be that there are naturally occurring predators that this that are able to keep it. And another thing that I've heard and I certainly am not a scientifically expert I can't really go into a great detail of it but I have heard the speculation that the trees there evolved with this rat and present so that they may have a little more resilient a little but we didn't do it then that American period would be those kind of boring things have you know some type of wasp to can. Well yeah and I think one of the things they're working out there trying to figure out is there is a path that

you know is there is there a PC to help us build it without creating a new and yeah exactly. One of the things that were kind of departed bag we have a laboratory dedicated to developing what are called bio control and you know you can develop a species like that you know whether it's not being alive or a type of In fact it goes after the president that is testable. You're much better off than trying to treat it. You know it with chemicals here or there because it's very expensive and time giving you know there was another example of that is that what they do is noxious weeds that we have in this state we've been working on developing kind of fine. In fact there are other types of organisms that might help us control those. Like you said the big the big thing there is to make sure that you're not creating more problems than what you're trying to solve was one of the really one of the focuses of that unit of our department is to

analyze the impact of that new species in the environment and say now if we do introduce that how is it going to interact with plants that we have in it. How's it going. Back to the other types of animals we have that last thing you want is to introduce something new and have that been in the past and that's the way to get over here. Somebody's got to be a good idea to bring this type of moth that they don't look like a pretty hardy vas but bring that over here we think but it gets really hearty. Yeah unfortunately it's much too hard. Yeah you know I've got a caller with a question. Actually this is for the forest and caterpillars is talking about bringing in other species and then you stand that first tent caterpillars are a natural cycle but whether some flies that were introduced to help with that could you talk about that predators. Sure well just to clarify at the Minnesota Department of Agriculture actually is not the entity that would be working at forcing caterpillar that's naturally occurring and then when you have a naturally when you have a bit of dabbling in the state it becomes a force health

issue that responsibility is held by the Department of Natural Resources. So that would be a question of probably better direct. And I don't have an answer for you on that one. But the idea there is you know is a good one is that you can introduce the competing organism trying to get population that is much better off than if you just let it run its course. Michael talk a little bit more about some of the testing that you're doing in the Minnesota Department of Culture because that I mean sure you can tell us about how long to test the bio control. Yeah it would depend on how nobly on it there'd be a lot of different factors that would go in there to make sure that you're not creating more problems than you're solving. It would be very dependent on the type of organism and whether it's been used in another part of the state or whether it's been present in other parts of North America. So it would depend very much on a lot of those that they and certainly there's a

methodology to it and we've done that actually you know one of the cases that I'm familiar with we've actually introduced a bio control organism in the Mall of America believe that really yeah they were having a problem with the plant of the plant. They had brought it to the main part of the hall and they did not want to you know break chemical tarea they figured well was there something else we could do in a day. We talked with them about it. Doing introduction of the kind I believe in that if we did not think that you know people think a lot of that yellow jacket type of thing. But these are actually tiny not being alive. The target is the plant they had in those kind of a win win. You know we got a chance to show that what we could do at the same time it was a good for the America because they got to go to not have to worry about more more troops that the treatment that they don't think about being inside

but you're right that they would be inside otherwise had to get rid of all their plants. Yeah that got a lot of plant but it's a big issue for the folks who are trying to cope. How do you do things like you know I can picture if you were testing out a new type of beetle or something that was going to go after the emerald ash borer finding out like which birds would eat it or what exactly. So you'd want to put you know you'd want to attack what is going there what it is. Cause problems for the animals that are you have is it going to cause problems but non target species. If you're introducing something to cold to moderate all that for the last thing you want to carpet butterfly species you know that what they called it not target we want there to be an impact beyond the area you have it. So there's a lot of things to look at and that's one of the things that I think changed over the last hundred years and we talk about Demerol that boring to be mocked having been introduced accidentally. I think there's a lot more awareness now than there used to be about how moving

around species from one part of the world to another and have a big impact on the environment if you don't do it right in the Predator. Well I think it's in good you know you've got actually the it's a mock species that we're talking about here actually in Europe. Pardon me. Yes that's OK. And emerald ash borer is the one that made it. There is an Asian form of it is one and not to give your listeners that that actually is a problem out of the West Coast that arrives and different methods that they actually are dealing with it out there so people may have heard of that. Even if you bought the version we're dealing with here is european get it and they would have probably similar to what we have put forth to Caterpillar You know you've got birds that that are used to eating it probably targeted. But unfortunately in the United States our bird that does you know that they probably are more inclined to go with some of the stuff that they're familiar with whether it or think Caterpillar and other native species. Yeah that's a way to there to being there to grow so.

Yeah exactly. Pictures on the web say why they might not want to. Yeah and they're feeding up too high for other predators like maybe bears or yeah you know the egg masses you know they're kind of delayed are left out of the tree that you might get a lot of predation and a lot of cases of birds or maybe you know there are fungi. You're right it might be a fungus that will attack caterpillars. You know you've got different type of like there are different types of control species that might come into play at that time. But really people think of birds. Yeah. Goodness sakes. Just could you recap really quickly some of the treatment plan what the plan is here for the Cook County area there be able to be a treatment was actually. The one that we did this week and that was up on The Graham port of visitation where there's going to be another treatment. About a week the idea is that if you do create in the U.K. at this point in the life cycle that the caterpillar stage and the

BTK one the one ethical if you believe that it began that it is still bad and it does not affect most of the pieces it does not affect mammals of birds or any other reptiles at the bank but it does affect it so that the treatment that we conducted this week the treatment that most people are probably going to be familiar with that they could fit in the family like that. That's called the type of approach is called mating that really is what it's all about prevents the male body can find it and that'll be coming up that treatment will be coming up in late July early August. And when we have a treatment coming up we try and get the word out not through letters through contacts that way but we try and work with local media as yourself we try to make sure that the word is getting out. And certainly if people have questions they can call that 800 number that we give out the 8 8 8 5 4 5 6 6 8 4. We will have people on that line and they'll be able to provide information about when the treatment is going to take place to treat. It will be conducted in a series of block

along the North Shore. There's a map at our website that shows where the block but really if it if you're going there tonight. Yes that northernmost block would be in the grammarian area and then there's a few spots down the shore. They get about over the bay. OK and that's for other stuff like thing yes the Fairmont like that's the one that died to prevent the male adult finding the male adult and then the other thing is putting out the traps and those are being put out this year in the spring summer break them the traps the Arctic way of getting rid of the population that traps their way of monitoring and you have a population and those are done every year. Our trappers are out putting up crap to a lot of cases in parts of the state they've already they've put their cats out but the 88 there is kind of like a radar system but the thing is that you know you do have a start up and that they can OK we need to go in and treat that area and that's how we found it in that station and cook in Lake County. Wow. Well again to homeowners don't transfer your firewood. Look

for the egg cases and reference page on the web pages MDA State him and us in the phone numbers 8 8 5 4 5 6 6 8 4. Michael I want to thank you very very much for joining us today. My pleasure. Michael Shermer a Minnesota Department of Agriculture here for northern gardening. Thanks again Michael. Well that kind of is wrapping up here for northern gardening I want to thank you all for. Tuning in. And our next program on Friday will be perennials for cold climates. Mike higer co-author of the book buy that. Why don't an owner of gate Gardens it's perennials for cold climates as the title of the book will be. In fact actually at one point he was considered Mr. Prime Minister our guest speaker next week and a reminder as well that today's broadcast is being rebroadcast on the following list next Thursday

at 4 o'clock saw again if you've got questions or if you've got a topic that you would like us to present Colus 3 8 7 10 70 or 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. Also a big big thank you to Diane booth Cook County Community Center for an extension her contact number is 3 8 7 3 0 1 5 I know that I was mentioning when I contact your local representative for any help and she would be the individual to contact again that's 3 8 7 3 0 1 5 if you've got questions about gypsy moth or other gardening questions or programs you'd like to hear on the norther gardening self thanks so much again I've been your host Paula send it and enjoy your gardening.