Northern Gardening; Jeffrey Hahn

Well welcome to Northern gardening here. Glad to have you with us. We'll be with you this hour with news about gardening in particular focusing on bugs. We have a special guest on the phone with us Jeffrey Hahn he's from the Department of Entomology through the University of Minnesota and he'll be with us to answer as many of our bug questions as we can come up with and me to give us a call 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. And with your question your good bug question. And Jeff thank you so much for joining us this morning. Well thank you for having me. So you were we were chatting a little bit before the hour and you mentioned that there's a this is we're talking general bugs things in particular that there's some news about an emerald ash borer maybe could fill us in about the concerns about the emerald ash borer. Well there are a Lashkar is an insect that's really from Asia was first found in the Detroit area in 2002 so not that long ago and has since expanded to train it and lot of parts of Michigan also in Indiana and Ohio parts of Canada. And it has just been found earlier this month in northern

Illinois. It gets a little bit closer to home here in Minnesota and we have a large number of ass trees here in the state not only in our urban landscapes but just in our general for us. And if this was an insect that. You know arrived here and some people would say not a matter of IF but WHEN. Then this would be you know potentially a very damaging insect So I think that's something that we're all taking very close note of. You know we'll see how the infestation is handled in Illinois but I think what this says should say to us is that we have to be constantly on the watch for this insect because it could arrive here any time it could already be here. And the sooner we find it you know the better or the sooner we can take steps against that to try to eradicate it. Does it only going after it is only going after ash

trees in China has been known to go after other species but it's only been found to attack assays here in the United States. But with that said basically there is no half tree that's safe from it because it attacks all species of green ash white as black as it attacked three young trees that can attack up to you know very mature trees. And while we think of boars of this type as attacking on healthy trees like we think of bronze Birch boar is a very closely related beetle to that. It will not only attack unhealthy ash but it will also attack healthy ash so everything is kind of under the gun. Every ass tree is under the gun from the insect and what are indicators to treat it. There's so infestation. Well now that's a really interesting question because they way they found the infestations in Illinois was the homeowner actually found the beetle. And that's kind of interesting I think

in a lot of cases. That's not how infestations are found. You find ash trees that are suddenly starting to die back and what I would try is to caution the listeners to is there's a lot of reasons an ash tree might decline and not do well. And so not every dying ash you see is remember old ash borer. But if you were to examine but that's only would be the first symptom that that the tree is dying back from the crown and working its way down and try fairly suddenly because of something bad within say about 3 years of being attacked the tree usually dies pretty quick really quick when our black ash trees never look all that healthy because they're the last to leaf out and the first to lose their leaves so. I should think you'd want to keep pretty close watch on the well you do and if you do see an ass tree that is not looking good. One of the symptoms that you can examine it for are the exit hole. In other words if you know the beetle lived inside of it eventually matures to an adult

and then it bores its way out and flies away. Well the beetles of this type make a very characteristic hole and it's in the shape of a capital D because the exit hole and have a D kind of on its side so the round part is down in the flat part as you know kind of up and if you see holes like that then that would be of you no great interest of the Minnesota part of our culture and other people who deal with this. Well and does that seem to focus on any particular part of the tree lower down further up. Well it will start at the top of the tree. It will start in the upper part of the crown the first year that infested and kind of work its way down. And you know while the tree is killed as I said fairly quickly in about three years you really don't see the damage the first year. You may by the second year you start to see it and I think in almost all cases by the time you see the damage the trees priority is gone or it's priority too late to try and save it. And speaking of saving So what are some of the choices to save the

tree. Yeah there are none really that you would have to cut down and destroyed. Wow that's. Yeah and you know I don't know what what will be decided here in Minnesota but I know in Michigan if you find or you know infested trees while there are insecticides that are 80 to 90 percent effective in controlling it. And this is before you know it it gets real severe. More on a preventive basis but you know first of all insecticides aren't going to be enough because 80 90 percent think just as some are going to survive and we can't afford to have any survive so they will cut down that ass tree and then they will cut down all ass trees within a half mile radius and I think that's what'll happen here. But a half miles about how far the insect could fly though. Better to sacrifice a tree. Yeah in that area. Then let it get out and you know devastate much larger region the original area.

If you've just tuned in we're speaking with Jeffrey Hahn who's the department of with the department of entomology at the University of Minnesota is talking with us about insect problems in our northern gardening region and Moamar we're focusing on the emerald ash borer since that's something that's just recently been discovered in northern Illinois which is close enough for us to be a little bit concerned and so I guess that the university Minnesota Department of Agriculture be on the watch for this so if you see a D shaped exit hole in your ash tree then the right way and as far as other bugs that are more garden related others maybe you could chat a little bit about some of the things. In particular I get a lot of people asking me about toads and there seem to be good ones and bad ones and maybe you talk a little bit about what they are. Well name a toad's Paris. Tiny. I sense the microscopic little round worms and the ones that are beneficial for our species that

are used against particular garden path. You know for example Iris bore. We don't have very good insecticides to treat it. But there are these parasitic nematode that can be sprayed. Your kind like you would spray an insecticide but you would be spraying actually tiny little living organisms and then they find the insect infested and then kill it. And so this is something that is very easy on the environment. You know certainly has some advantages that it's not always you know 100 percent in effect in this pond of the right conditions they can be very very useful to gardeners. Is there a good time to apply the beneficial name of toads but you wouldn't just I mean you would have to have a specific problem in mind. You wouldn't just generally broadcast the nematodes in hopes of you know catching some bad insect you would ask they would have an iris for problems. I'm going to buy the product ahead of time and spread a very specific time and so with each

pass you know would require different time for treatment. Another example be Viburnum bore a pellet of fiber no shrubs and and you know you would probably have played at a different time than you would say with the iris bore. Now how about some of the less helpful ones the detrimental sweater. How do you recognize. Well you know that's actually a good question. I'm not actually that familiar with the bad nematode. That is something I'd have to say that the people who study the plant sees a crime or what they would consider a plan to be kind of an issue. And I suppose that they would have fairly diagnostic you know symptoms depending on the particular ones we're talking about. That's actually not what I've asked him earlier with. Well we've got other resources we'll have to do to bring that up on a different show. Thanks very much Jeff. How about some of the other standard kind of garden problems that one in particular that has always been a bothersome thing for

me is the Beatles and as I tried to look up what they actually are I get a lot of different you know there's all different types of flea beetles and what is actually bothering them and they look like they're hopping away and jumping like a flea beetle would. And they're wriggling leaves little holes. But what are they. A flea beetle is kind of a leaf beetle and you know as you very well describe it is quite small. It has big back legs like a grasshopper has big back likes for jumping and they do create a very small hole in leaves they do feet on and actually have a wide variety of plant tomatoes potatoes as a couple of examples radish. And you know this is different species depending on the different plant that we're talking about. But you know as they feed you know they can create a small hole that goes all the way through but they can kind of feed the fats that were there just kind of feeding on the layer of the leaf and so you know if

you look and you'll see part of it looks kind of clear but not maybe chewed all the way through NFL is typical of a flea beetle damage. And how do you avoid having them in your garden. Well I don't know if you can avoid having them but certainly if you have particular plants or you've had problems with them in the past then you know part of managing insects is to determine when they're first there when they're first creating the damage. And that's kind of a process we call pest management and inspecting and you know monitoring your garden is the really important part of this. And if you know let's say you've had problems with them on your potatoes Well then you start you know as soon as the potatoes are up and watching A.C. you start to see the small holes or maybe the beetles themselves well then you can determine if there's enough of them to you know go ahead and treat. And so the idea is to minimize

damage to the plant. That's interesting you should bring up the potatoes because. I'll have potatoes and beets right alongside each other and the beets are the ones that are getting hammered by the flea beetles but the potatoes look beautiful. So yeah they can be a difference of different species. And they said there's a variety of garden plants. You know they can be attacked and it just depends on what particular. Crop that you have. You know as most of you know being attacked by them. And are there any remedies. Well there are a variety of garden insecticide. These things are probably too small to try and hand picked at that usually a good measure for certain things especially if you have a smaller sized garden. But these are small enough and they cause you know enough damage. Now the other the other thing to consider is the wound. And if you see this later in the season it is not as much of an issue but if you have a younger kind of more susceptible plants early in the spring and that's really the time to especially be trying to

protect the plant and I think in this case you know a garden insecticide something that the label for the particular plant you want to treat it with you know would be the best bet and only apply as much as what you need. Now I did actually try garlic spray and that actually worked better than I thought. I guess I was expecting instant results and by the next day they had seemed to have gone elsewhere. And they didn't seem to have gone to different plants in the garden either. Yeah you know I've heard mixed things about the garlic spray. You know I hear people who swear by and I further people who say it doesn't work for them. You know I'm not as familiar with you know the scientific trials for that. Yeah. You know people who have experiment with that to say how well it works if that's something that people have an interest in they can try it and if it works for you that's good if not then you may have to resort to you know more traditional kind of insecticide.

Yeah I guess I was wishing that I had applied a little earlier because by the time I did apply it it was really you know that would be I would go back to my other comment that you have to be proactive like your garden. And I'm guessing most people are. But if you have particular pest problems you have to be scouting for them. You know early on in trying to get you know see them when they first occur and then you know your treatment will be it will be much more effective. Well that actually brings up a point a lot of times we're out in the garden during the day and some of the biggest bag damage is actually happening at night or in the early morning or late dusk. For instance slugs. Talk about slugs a little bit more as well slugs. You know there are some pests that no matter what you do they're still going to be a problem. And you're right they are active at night they hide during the day. You know again this is the pest management that I talked about actually the the longer name for it is the integrated pest management and that what that means is you use a variety of tactics to try

to minimize the problem. And yet I won't say that if you do things the bugs will disappear. That's probably not going to happen when there are you know bad there. They're difficult to deal with. But but there are some some tactics you know that you can take and you know for one because we do know that they hide during the day. If you check under objects where they may be and then kind of physically remove them I think you could deliberately put out things like newspapers or maybe pieces of plywood and give them a place to go to in the morning when you wake up. You can. You know go out there on coverage. And then hopefully they've taken shelter in there and then you can you know remove them by hand and kind of get some of them. You know they said if you remove you know areas that they're hiding under you know that could give them less Harbor Geria and then hopefully

you know less places to be. I think in the end you know we need to consider the Wagga sides of some sort or moleskin side which is something that would be effective against the logs. And there are a variety of products out there. Things like met all the high. There is I'm trying to think of the he's another one of the kind of keeping my mind at the moment but think of it as a kind of go along. I know another method that sometimes we use is copper wire and the idea is they don't like to cross that of the barrier so you put that around the garden and that's supposed to help keep them out. And I've heard mixed things about that. Some people swear by it. And you know some people say doesn't work farm well.

It sounds kind of mystical. Well not really. You know there's something about the metal and the reaction that causes the flag when it goes over it. The other insecticide or the other the other my left side I was thinking of it was iron phosphate and that actually goes to work pretty well. You know as a bait you put it out there in the ingested and then it kills the slugs. So a variety of things to try and of course some of this is going to be dependent on the weather. If we have a lot of rainy weather there are going to be naturally more common drier weather. My understanding is that you've been a little drier up there that hopefully will reduce naturally. The slugs that are there but there is something kind of count on every season. How about as far as how they winter over what is the life cycle of a slug. And this

spring I found some absolutely enormous logs I guess I was kind of half looking for something but I was finding the actual slugs in the bus ride I know they overwinter in the States so it becomes warm you know that it will happen they'll start to you know feed and so these big huge ones that I was discovering I'm not sure what. I mean the year did you find them first thing in the spring. Absolutely first thing I was just astounded. You know it's possible that some may over winter as as adults. Yeah I think it's more common for them to overwinter as they say. Yeah well I was terribly surprised and boy they were so enormous and I was kind of shaken by that really large slugs you know I had someone who contacted me a few years ago about some slugs that they had found in a garden and they too were very large and turned out to be a slug that didn't live here. But the supposed to spend the winter here and what we had speculated was it had come from the Pacific Northwest like they were going to Washington State and had been in Burnley transported and

you know plant material that had gotten here. And Chris this is until like August September so we didn't have any reason to believe it would survive the winter. Yeah and you know it's probably not the case here with you. I'm sure the native species. But sometimes you find some interesting things that don't belong here and you know they can be transferred from other areas. Yeah. Well in a notice that they're not. When I think of this like I usually think of kind of a light brown sort of a thing but sometimes they're really black. So are there different varieties. Oh there are. And interestingly the one that I found was it was dark colored and you know this one that came from the Pacific Northwest of you know you know maybe they're kind of. Finding acid and you know I mean the areas where they haven't been before. Oh Joy I hear about some of the banana slugs that are out with us and I guess they're they're really something in bright yellow but they are actually I was out in the redwood forest a couple years ago and I have

banana flag and they are huge and they're very colorful actually they're kind of pretty to look at. Not that you'd want to be in your garden given the size of them but you know I know just what you're talking about. Yeah I have never seen them that have been described it sounds like they could do some serious damage to a lot of this. I would think so one of them to hope there wasn't many of them. How about predators. What actually eats the eggs. Oh I don't know if there's any one thing that will you. I think you have a variety of you know maybe small mammals like shrew that would make a gentle lawn. I think. You know there may be some other things that could bite but there isn't any one insect or more animal or bird or anything that would I think really eat enough of them to really you know.

But immigrants have been going out pretty much every morning in the garden and I've got other things like you know the beer trap for them but I do go and pick first thing in the morning and whether it's turning over boards or whatever but I've noticed I've been less than ever and this year is the first year we've actually had a lot of robins hopping around in the garden and so that's why I was wondering would Robins be eating slugs that's certainly birds canned you know. Birds toads make their Beatles like brown beetle. You know Firefly You know what it's like the larvae of firefighters actually full of thought. Now that's good news. And speaking of other kind of bitterly tape bugs we've got a caller had a question and speaking of which folks have got a question about a garden pest that's in your garden and you'd like to have Jeff address that give us a ring 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. This collars Ollie He's 4 years old and he has a bug with its gold and black with gold on its belly and he wants to know what to feed it so he actually

wants to take care of this bug. And that's not a the best description Jeff I'm sorry I don't have more. And maybe if I can tell us for sure that maybe it's a beetle or whatever kind of bug it is but any suggestions about what he could do. Yeah that's that's that's hard to say. You know I have a month or two ago I recall collecting some incentive as night and I ran into this in June beetle size intact and it was actually a goldish kind of yellow gold and kind of dark on the underside and that's called a goldsmith beetle and I actually don't know if they really eat much. I mean this is possibly what he found. Right right. Mine was over in the Park Rapids area of the state. And but they certainly are you know throughout the whole area. So he has something he may have found but not knowing the size or a little bit more of the description it would be hard to say. I would say in general terms if

he found it on something you know eating that that would be a good place to start. We just found out walking around which may also be the case here. It could be they're not interested in food and no matter what you give them they may not be interested. So hard to say. You try different things kind of experiment and. See what happens. The other thing too would be if you as a field guide you try to look it up identified himself and then see what they like to use and you know go accordingly. Yeah what is actually the lifecycle of a bug that is an interest in eating what is what are they just going to be laying eggs somewhere and so will that be something interesting only can watch. Yeah well if that wouldn't be unusual for adults not to eat certainly a lot of adult infected do. But if you have one especially that somewhat short lived they may have time to emerge. You know mate lay eggs and you know basically die. So if it does depend on the effect. Yeah well we will have to give us a ring and let us know.

So if you just tuned in you're listening to Northern gardening here on WTOP. We're speaking with Jeffrey Han his with the department of entomology at the University of Minnesota and we're talking about garden pests garden bugs. Give us a ring if you've got a question 3 8 7 10 17 year 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 with your gardening question Are there any you know you talked about some of the new invaders are there some new things that are moving into the area in Minnesota that folks should be on the watch for right. I guess what I'm thinking of in particular are some of the beetles that we really don't see much of up north for instance the some of the potato beetles nut sort of thing have you noticed a trend of those moving farther north. Oh well I guess I really have not at this point and so you know if there are garden pests that you're not seeing or are even just you know that you're not being you know I guess the good news is that you know I don't think anything coming and knocking on your doorstep at the moment you know you talk about them will last for which is not not present in

Minnesota I do want to stress that is not found here so far but certainly it's in some adjacent states or some nearby Midwest state. Then we certainly have the kind of trees that they like. You know the other point I'd like to make about that too is you know we don't we know it's in Michigan Ohio Indiana and Illinois hauen. And certainly this insect can fly. But the way it most likely will find its way to Minnesota would be in firewood or some sort of infested wood and so you know one of the things I would say is if you you know are camping or you've traveled somewhere to these other states especially and especially if it's in your quarantine area you absolutely do not bring you know firewood back especially as firewood because you know that is how this thing is spread. More times than not. When we spoke with Mike recently about the Gypsy too and he really mentioned about being careful when you're traveling because a gypsy moth is the same sort of thing and to kind of watch for those eight cases whether it's for one hour that you can't read the point

very well taken you know that is how gypsy moth has spread as well. And they you know lay eggs or the pupae or camp or whatnot and you travel back to where you live and you just have brought an infestation with you and and while the gypsy mob you know I think will eventually you know spread throughout this area. You know there's no point in making it faster than it needs to be you know that person is an insect that chews on leaves and very devastating and something we you know have feared to a degree and you know we actually are not trying to eradicate gypsy moth people might be surprised by that but it's sometimes called slow the spread. And something that we're hoping by taking a little bit different tact will slow it down and because it's really not possible to eradicate it any longer and so you know we're not trying. But it's something that people need to be kind of aware of and mindful of.

You know and I know as far as as we're talking about traveling with firewood some places really don't want you to bring their fir wood in and it suits me. Canada I don't think you're allowed to bring your firewood into Canada or at least into the provincial perks which share. So you know that's that's I'm sure part of the reason behind that is you know all kinds of insects that can be you know in firewood and you bring that up and you maybe bring something that they don't have and you know you think about the insects you know our path and you know especially recently and these are things that are brought in from other areas of the world you know so many things that have come from you know the area and it's from commerce that these things get transported. And you know there are things in Europe that they didn't have that came over from the United States and so you know what goes around comes around and it's something that you know it's we have to be just kind of careful often you know on a more local

level you know as we talked about with the firewood and that's something we can have some control over and hopefully minimize its ability to spread. Well if you just tuned in we're speaking with Jeffrey Han with the Department of Entomology University Minnesota's northern garden actually and take a quick break. If you've got a gardening question give us a ring three seven ten seventy or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. Now we're actually going to listen to a little tune by Leah Thomas who's a local artist. She did a little song about bugs and so if we take this quick break we'll we'll hear from Leave It. What could be.

Any mania. When mine. Is gone. I will go zone no. Well it may have as a guy. With my beauty. And I may not mean much. Out. Of innocence 1. 0 0. 0. 0 0. We live in the far right. Ivan.

I'm in heaven. I will still not. Be an for all the good has been. That many may be only mine if it is live. There's no way I can eat. We need to eat.

Thanks for the bugs appreciate it. We put that music in my little studio box here so I could play that. Thanks. And if you just tuned in you're speaking. We're speaking with Jeffrey. He's Department of Entomology and talking about bugs here is happily singing about. And you've got a gardening question about bugs here on Northern gardening give us a ring. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. Actually we did get a call from Eleanor. She wants to know if Earth is good for slugs is it OK to use. And Jeff are you familiar with that one. Well you know the theory about diatomaceous earth is that the crabs the cuticle you know the outside kind of skin of it and then they'll dry out and they'll die. And my experience they died from a sister. Is that that can work. But it's something that if.

It becomes wet it's not as effective and I think that traces are used indoors. I think more often than outdoors. So you know I would have kind of mixed feelings about that. So even Morning Dew could kind of cut down the effect of this not it. I think so yeah. Yeah that's that's unfortunate I've heard it working I've never tried it. I've had more success actually it was just hand-picking different. Yeah. I guess is seems gross but it keeps me on the garden a little bit more and kind of keep an eye on what's going on too that I talk about maybe some problems and some years are worse than others and. Can you just talk about the different types you know if there's light colored and dark colored. I don't know if you know there are a few species for PRI. Every plant that's out there. Really everything is probably prone to of some sort and. Some plants you know multiple

species of a food. And they do come in hot colors. They can be black and brown and green yellow red and yellow. And to identify the different species sometimes you can go by color. Sometimes you have to look at much finer features but sometimes you can identify them by just the plants that they're on. So you know so they are you know you know different species but what they're doing is actually very similar to have these kind of needle like mouth parts that they insert into the plant and feed on the stamp. And you know plans can tolerate a certain number of a food but certainly if you have one that gets very heavily infested You know that could be an issue it could decrease the vigor and the vitality of the plant. Well and for instance the new got roses LA Times there and we have events on

them sometimes and even the rugosa roses will get them and certainly the tea roses and those even are more susceptible but they seem to go right for the flower which is sort of a drawback when you're expecting the flower to open up. Right and so yeah yeah I mean we say if it's all roses down here this year and I don't think we had enough that we had any real damage. But I know a lot of people and some of the potential certainly was there. You know I think about if it is that this will create kind of a a sticky substance that the exude cult honeydew and sometimes a person's first. Information or notice that they have a problem is to have the sticky stuff on their plant something people calming they'll say you know my tree it's like the raining sap out of it that tells me is that it has a food and they're exuding the honey dew.

And as you're talking about that isn't there some kind of symbiotic relationship between ants do they harvest that or something. Well you know a lot of bands like honey do it's excess sugars that the Fed can't digest. And a lot of ants like bad sweet material and so you will find. And you know around it if it some some will actually Kenelm cow like people 10 cow and protect them from potential predators like believe me beautiful. And so yeah they're usually there is a definite Association back there have been times where I have a den a fight and if the problem based. And activity on a plant so people are closer and then they see the aphid and you know in the honeydew. That's interesting. Well he talked about the lady beetles or the bugs so there are some predators for if there are there are and I think the one we're most familiar with would be the lady beetles and not only the adults but the larvae

and I think everyone is pretty familiar with what an adult lady beetle looks like but not as many people I think know what may be the larvae look like they're kind of alligator looking things they're usually kind of blue and orange. They might have little spines they might not. And I've had people who have looked at down say this is an ugly insect anything ugly can't be good no spray and I don't know later that they were lady beetle larvae which was helping to protect them against their race. Yeah Which brings up a good point too about some other kinds of one of the kind of beneficial insects should we not be killing in our gardens. Well you know I think that I think whenever you see something you're not familiar with the first step is to get it properly identified because if it's the past that you knew you need to know that so you can take whatever treatment you need against it if it's beneficial that you want to leave it alone or it could be just a neutral and think maybe not really doing anything. But then there's no reason to treat it either

and you know we have all kinds of things we have as I mentioned the lady beetles we have Lisa Ling's which also feed on the food. We have things like ground Beatles Beatles it's usually found in the soil in your garden they're predators. Even small parasitic wasp you know for example there is a group that will attack yf that you think about the you know how small an aphid is and he got this tiny wasp that lays an egg inside of the aphid and then the larva feeds you know on the body fluids of it until it basically drains it and kills it and you can actually see the result of this because if you see little aphids and they look kind of bloated and callous like kind of a hard shell you might see a little hole in the top that something has been attacked by a parasitic class. So people need to be that be aware of it and certainly not treat if you know if they can avoid it. Help protect them. So what about like you. Sometimes you can't wait for nature to help kind of alleviate a

problem. So it's bringing them up with water. Is that going to hurt the beneficial bugs or somebody said that's a good method to use to take a hose and spray the aphids and knock him off because they're such weak walkers. They're you know they're not going to walk back up on the planet they're essentially just going to starve and die. But the good news is for things like lady beetles and lace wings and you know things that we mentioned they're strong enough that they get not a big deal. They can just move right back or they can fly back. So using a hard spray of water is actually a good method for disposing of it. And at some point in the life cycle don't they end up with wings and sometimes you can notice that there's a big problem. That's true Avis can sometimes have very complicated life cycles and they normally will produce generations without wings. But if there are too many aphids and it gets overcrowded or at sea at the end of the season and they

need. You know I've dealt to kind of migrate to other areas. There's no produce generation with wings that allows them to move off and then you know do what they need to do. And then how do they must be really tiny and I brought you bring a plan to the house examiner pretty carefully you see that there's nothing on it and then a few weeks later you look over it and oh my god it's full of nuts. Well you know they are very small and if you're after just parsing a small number of them you can easily overlook them. You know if they're on the underside of the wall but will be stored anywhere on the Dow you may not take much notice and certainly when people bring plants in at the end of summer you know bring them in for the winter. We certainly do recommend that they take a really close look and try to detect any in fact that may be added including a food. So maybe get it all together but they're very prolific when it comes to reproducing and so you might have a few they won't stay that way for a lot.

So maybe spring everything down really well before you bring it in would be a good idea. You know they said take a really good look at it examine your plants really closely and you know that goes a long way in helping to detect any test that may be there and it was you're talking about the beneficial beetle maybe. Could you describe a little bit more because there are a lot of different things in the soil as well and you know short of bringing them into the extension office all the time. Which much I guess could also be done well and you know that actually is a good point too. And you know I would just kind of reiterate that is that if you are having questions about something you're seeing you know the extension office is certainly available to help you identify things. There's also information from the University of Minnesota. You know a website that can be useful as well. It would be hard to describe I suppose over the radio with some of the things look like except just for people to be aware that there are idea of predation as Beatles ground beetles which are usually dark usually move Fassel hide under things.

You have Rove the Beatles are over. Be these interesting Lee do not possess the hard sell that covers the have been there of the body that most Beatles have they have very short weight and can someone can almost look kind of ant like and people might encounter that I seen that in my own garden. You have things like a checkered beetle a fireflies are actually predators. You know there's actually a pretty good list of different things that can be useful in the garden. Now one thing I just found the other morning it's a really very very large beetle larva. It's white and it's got kind of a gold head looks like an enormous grub. Is that a June beetle larva or is it hard to find it in the soil your somewhere else is in the soil. Well you know I'm sure it was a grub of some sort but not all grubs or nests like the white crows we associate with Laughton and beating on the grass roots. We have others that can be associated with the

Kingwood. And others that you know I mean honestly be feeding you know your grass plants. You know I suppose it would depend on what it looks like exactly. And that's really you know if you could be like Robert could be you know something something else. Well I left it out for the robin. Oh that's pretty good. I'm sure they'll enjoy that. Nice juicy beast but there are some good books that you recommend as far as identifying bugs at various different stages so you can identify a book that I like. Is in the Peterson Field Guide series and they actually have a number of books and they want a butterfly's one on one on Beatles and then general one on one insect. Not mentioning the segments in that there is a publisher out of the loop that does have a series of books out in sex on the Northwoods and Currently there's a lot of

butterflies or I think I have coming out this year. They have won one of the spiders which is not exactly insects but certainly something you'd see in your garden and the one dragon fly damsel flies then and in the next year they're scheduled to have one on an insect so it would be a good reference when it comes out. Larry Weber the one that's doing that for tuna No he's actually not doing that online. OK when you said spiders I immediately I was. Writer Larry Weber did the spider. Oh you did. Yeah OK I know he really likes them a lot and somebody was joking about his last name whether it's appropriate you know I never thought of that. Yeah I know he's a very good writer. Yeah you know if you're just in your listening to Northern gardening and politics and it we've got Jeffrey on the phone with us who's with the University of Minnesota's Department of Entomology talking about garden pests and garden friends too as regarding bugs and if you have a question about a bug or whether it's good or bad

bug or you don't know give us a ring. 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 and Jeff will do his best to ask that question. Jeff we're talking about bugs in particular do you are you familiar at all with some of the diseases that sometimes are so sheeted with bugs and is that is that a connection as far as the health of the plant. When any diseases that would be socially within things would be specific to the young sex and would really have nothing to do a plan. You know an example there is a kind of a small house fly looking fly called the current maggot and they will be attacked by an insect loving fungi. And it's interesting because they'll be attacked. They'll land on a plant and then their body will be all kind of twisted and contorted and the way they die after being attacked by the fungus. But then if they land on a say a fallen leaf and they had little brown the

leaf to look at the fly and the thing all the fly you know attacked you know the plant. And in fact they had nothing to do with it and the disease that attacked it will have nothing to do with the plant. So it was just circumstantial evidence in that case. Yeah. And what about if plants are doing well are they giving off particular I don't know what the word is when they're giving out stress indicators. Yeah in some cases that would be true. And that's how insects can find you know weakened or stressed plants because of the chemical. You know that a plant may put out you know bark beetles and and you know unhealthy tie would be an example. And so yeah and certainly a plant's health you know can help determine whether consistently fight off insects. You know they have their own defenses. It's kind of a never ending kind of battle you know and it's interesting with

evolution you know how they adapt themselves. You know the insect before how to test the plan. When the planning for how to protect itself and it can go on and on that's not like you know for one week to the next think artist but I mean like over you know many many you know probably hundreds of years. So keeping your plants healthy will help a little bit with that. Well we talk about pest management and her time by either you know in your garden plants or you know trees and shrubs in your yard. The first thing we always say is keep the plants healthy. Because some insects will then not be attracted to them. Or if you have insects that are attacking them the plants just that much better equipped to tolerate the feeding. So you know regardless keeping them healthy is a very important first step. You get a collar at a question about cabbage worm butterflies and he wanted to know about one hasn't seen a sign of him yet. Is there a time when it should really be vigilant you know what to do.

Well I think we're in that time now. I know they have been active. And if the person has been lucky enough not to have in their own garden you know I suppose all the better. But it when you see the white butterflies flying around I mean those are the cabbage butterflies and that would be an indicator that they're active and potentially could be laying eggs again. You know we talk about monitoring and kind of watching in your garden if you start to see a small hole. In the leave you know that would tell me that you could stand. There's cabbage worms active in trying to feed in a chorus. The sooner you can detect that the sooner you can take some steps to treat. You know if you don't notice them until your whole your compas ravaged obviously that that's too late you know what is and treatment suggestions. Well then there are some traditional products you know like 7 for example that you can treated permethrin. But a really good product that people like you something a little kinder to the environment is called the stillest.

Sometimes it's called BT and this is a based on a naturally occurring bacteria in the soil and you've sprayed on the leaves and as the caterpillar chooses it ingested and As The Stomach poison and then to kill without it it's important that if you're going to use this this early on in the bee infestation if we're talking a really mature Caterpillar just not going to have very much effect on him. But it's especially good on the younger caterpillars. Why doesn't it affect the larger ones. Well because the older ones are not eating as much. You know when you get to that point and the bigger they are is just that much more difficult for them to eat enough to be poisoned. So the younger ones are much more susceptible. And also as we talked about it's not so much you're trying to kill the unsuccessful. Sometimes that is what happens but you're trying to protect your plant trying to minimize the damage to it. So even if you could kill him easily with whatever product

if they very severely damaged it and that's really the issue. Yeah. Is it possible to spray them off with with water to use that help. You know I don't know how easy that would be you know usually they're on the underside. And if you are moving the leaves and spraying of adjustable hand pick them I think. So I think that's not really a good method for cabbage worms. And then what about the effects on there. Well I don't know if there be other caterpillars that are attacking plants a thing about tomato horn which I have seen one in Cook County once so that was pretty easy to pick off. But it wasn't on the tomato plants all but it or some other kind of caterpillar type predators plant predators I'm thinking that. Well you know I think having to really be the most important. There certainly are Friday of other things that you might see from time to time. Black swallowtail for example something gets done. Bill parsley carrot queen and delays and that's an interesting one because

when people see that they have to the size of the damage is sufficient to warrant treating them or the possibility of having a black swallowtail. You know butterfly emerging you know kind of always that you know in some of the caterpillars you know do turn out to be really attractive butterflies or more than other times or just simply test and you know no matter what they turn into. So again to be a good idea to identify Jeff if somebody wants to bring in something to have it identified what's the best way to do that. Well I think you know if you can just put it into a small container. You know I suppose that would make somewhat of a difference if you're just going to walk it into the office versus mailing it. Usually if it's hard by the insect of some sort you know below or something. I'll put it in the freezer overnight so whoever is opening up the mail tends to lead some life in Texas. You know it's going to stay there.

Caterpillars know things are a little different because they're soft bodied and they will start to deteriorate after they die. So it might be easier to try and lie. Yeah although I suppose he who is our Minnesota extension agent when he was working here has since retired but he came into the studio want to talk about the forests and caterpillars and he brought in a whole branch with them on them and they were crawling all around the studio. Well that's what I don't think we need to have identify and we know that one right. Sweet. Well Jeff I want to really thank you very much I appreciate you being with us any other little words of wisdom for folks about bugs in the yard. Well I would just say as a final note is that there is just a small percentage of insects that are considered to be paths and the vast majority of them are either beneficial or neutral. So you don't enjoy them because there are a lot of very interesting and fascinating insects out there and again I would just caution people to be sure it actually is a pass before you potentially. Take any steps against it. And luckily our extension office here for Cook County Extension the phone number

is 3 8 7 3 0 1 5 and you're certainly welcome to stop in. At the center of their day in both is always very helpful and there are a lot of master gardeners there. And then Jeff what about a resource as part of the University of Minnesota. Well if you if a person were to go to the extension homepages for b w w w dot extension you am an edu and can scroll down and click on the yard and garden line icon that gives you an opportunity to find all kinds of information we have a newsletter which occurred twice during the summer and then monthly in the winter and all kind of links to publications and other information. And if you don't mind surfing the web a good place to get gardening information. Excellent well thank you so very very much for joining us we've been speaking with Jeffrey Hahn is the Department of Entomology with the University of Minnesota talk about bugs on Northern gardening. Thank you Jeff

very very much appreciated here for having me thinks. Well enjoy speaking with you maybe later in the year. Oh good. And folks we've got other announcements too about things that are coming up here on the north shore. This weekend is the day or one of the days that were the Harbor Park is going to be planted and that is being done by the master gardeners. And there will be teams of folks who will be out on Saturday morning so if you would like to go down and watch this exciting event that will be happening on Saturday morning in Harbor Park in grammar. And if you're interested in being involved then I recommend you give a call to Howard Abramson or Don Goodell although I suspect that those teams have already been formed. But just in case that they would be the contact people about helping in this the master gardeners that are. Organizing that and I understand that there are going to be planting just one end of the park at this point so far as I know that was the last word that I've heard but that was several days ago so maybe maybe there's more going on. The moment

things have gone a little slower than they'd anticipated as part of getting things ready. For the planting but in a lot of plants we go into the ground really fast and that should be very very exciting to see. And I also want to encourage folks for the next two weeks for northern gardening we're going to be talking with you our listener since it's part of our pledge drive will be starting so we're going to turn the tables a little bit and ask you some questions some of the things that we've been talking about over the last several weeks of running northern gardening and become fun to see oh do people know things have you been paying attention have you been taking notes. And but we also really really love to hear from you about your garden and what's worked for you and what your favorite plants are. And that more than anything else would really like to have you give a call an hour if you want to e-mail the studio then that would be really exciting as well you can go to the website WTOP. Dot org in and just click in the e-mail. Then you can send a new email

request or information about your gardening but would love to have you on the air too. And again our phone number is 2 1 8 3 8 7 10 70 or 1 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7. So we will be hearing from some local gardeners but it also will really welcome hearing from White. What's worked for you or maybe what hasn't or what's on your plate. Favorite plants are here in the north and we really need to exchange that and also really like to hear from folks who have specific heirloom varieties that maybe they would be willing to share some seeds with. And I think it would be nice to preserve some of those when Pim passed out information around salt. I want to thank you again for tuning in a been your host Paul ascended with Northern gardening and thinks for being along with us. And stay tuned for spring session. And if you're listening on Thursday evening just leave a message will be will be happy to get back with you.