Northern Gardening; Bill Steele

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landscaping needs in the northland 3 8 7 1 6 4 4. Well welcome to Northern gardening again this is a live call in program you're welcome to call in with your questions 3 8 7 10 70 or 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 and joining us on the phone is Bill Steele and he is and his wife Carol are in Minnesota they have spangle Creek labs. They're raising native ladies slippers. Thank you Bill so much for joining us this morning. You're quite welcome I'm looking forward to it. Well tell me a little bit about how you got started with native lady slippers because you were out in Washington state weren't you when you first became interested in this. Well. When I first started propagating them. Actually I've been interested in native orchids ever since I was a boy in northeastern Indiana where I grew up in Indiana. We had lots of lakes our little tiny county

we had a 110 place a lake and pretty much the same department fee that we have in northern Minnesota here. There are a lot more corn fields and agricultural land so there is very little native orchid habitat left. But I really enjoyed what there was. And what I was a boy in the 6th grade in school. I woke up one Sunday morning and was reading my junior Natural History magazine as a little color magazine that was put out by the American Museum of Natural History and I read an article on native orchids that May morning and lo and behold later in the morning I was out hiking in the woods with my friend and we found the showy orchid. Wow that's a native orchid. It's native to Minnesota. Not this. Far north it rains in the south of the Twin Cities but from that day on I was hooked on

Wild Orchid native orchids and from there I ended up going to school and graduate school and took a job in Washington State three in eastern Washington and I had read up on ruling there that there were yellow lady's slippers native to the east in Washington that they were extremely rare and I had lived there for something like 15 years before I actually found you know a Lady Thetford growing in the wild in Eastern Washington. And my immediate reaction to finding them was What can I do to her. I'm out. But why is it that they're so rare. Well one of the reasons they're rare there is there's good habitat and what's left has been largely destroyed. Ranchers need to make sure their their livestock and so they they but the ponds and areas where they don't lease the present naturally occur and so that's one of the reasons they're rare. But I was thinking what can I

do to help them out and I thought well maybe I can propagate them and and put them back in the wild. And at that time I do absolutely nothing about obligation not even commercial or good propagation. So I had to do it a great deal of reading. And it turns out not much has ever been done about propagating temperance ladies before and so give us a lot of original research involved as well as reading the literature about other work that they're propagated. Well it sounds like it's not very easy. Isn't that part of the problem that they're so rare. Well propagation of any orchids is difficult because. It's kind of like both plants produce things that have very little in the way of nutrients. Orchid seeds have notes stored starches no. And the sperm the way other plants do the seeds and

other plants do. And so in in nature determination process is really complicated. What happens in nature is the seeds in a lucky fall into a suitable habitat on the ground for their contact with the ground or better yet get buried. And as organic matter lying there in the soil they tend to be taxed by Jai for fungi that would like to get nutrition by attacking the orchid seed and digesting it. And so in the ground the fungal Hi-Fi fungal filaments and the seed and contact the embryo the orchid and the orchid has the capability of attacking the fungus in return and digesting these fungal filaments. And that's how the young orchid plant dries it. It's Trisha. It gives both energy and mineral nutrients from

the fungus that they what I like to tell people is an analogy is it's sort of like you. You've got athlete's foot fungus attacked your foot that somehow your body could could digest the fungus and give you nutrition so you wouldn't have to eat. That's pretty much what the market does. Well that sounds great. It's often described as a symbiotic relationship. But technically no experiments have been ever able to detect what nutrients the fungus gets from the orchid that it's the other way around that the organ gets all the benefit and and not the fungus. And so some people describe the Orchid as being a parasite on the fungus. It's truly a symbiotic relationship. Does it matter what kind of fungus it is.

Apparently it does. But that's still a field where there's a lot of research being done. And nobody's compelling. It's really difficult to isolate them. And the fungus to begin with and once they're isolated they they tend not to produce the fruit and it's usually the fruiting bodies that allow mycologist to identify the fungus. Back back to the what goes on in the lab and germinating the seed. One approach would be to use a fungus in the soil. But that's so far been pretty tricky. There are a few people who don't seem to be making some progress on that line but. My approach and that is used most commonly by operators of chronicle Oregon can supply all the nutrients the orchids need and I'm going to kill that contains all the nitrogen phosphorus potassium calcium. I think he said and so forth as well. Sugar is for energy

and that way there's no need for the fungus in this in this culture in the flask or test tube. We provide all the nutrients that the fungus normally would. Yeah as far as I understand it they don't. Do they produce every year the orchids often don't produce seed and back other years. Well some years they don't produce seed are yours. They will try to produce seed and seed may fail or very often the flowers are not even pollinated to begin in the seed early in the season and the weather is not favorable. And do you write insects aren't around at the right time the flowers don't get pollinated. What likes to pollinate the lady's slippers. Well that's there is that there are a variety of things. The early ones are often are often pollinated by Bumblebee and others are pollinated by Flower flies

and it seems that it's just a matter of what happens to be available. So that's not species specific or anything. Well it tends to be yes but I have been wearing ladies slippers and temperately disappears in the yard. They're not from Minnesota. I have called the spotted ladies that were from Alaska that that are way out of their natural range but yet there are natives very effectively by Flower flies. So what's a flower fly. Oh you know the ones that I see doing pollinating and latest The first are they look sort of like and more yellow jackets. Have black and white stripes on the abdomen. Yeah you know you have probably seen them. Yeah I've been noticing them lately and I was thinking why are they yellow jackets pollinating them. Oh I thought maybe they were after Bugs this time of year they probably are yellow jacket I don't know we have a lot

around our our hummingbird feeders. At the parties are perfectly 9 and 8. They don't sing and they're in the family for would be great. It just looks like a pretty much like little teaser or little watch. They have been what we called sweat bees is that similar. Well this is what really be there in the order Hymenoptera are the bees and wasps and you know I can foresee they do you know that there are different there and in the order different with to provide as long as we're talking about family names and geniuses at the lady's slipper a particular genus. Yes the northern latest letter that we have around here is in the genus separate PDA. There are also

topical ladies leopards that a lot of orchid growers and like to raise and their homes in the tropical East that of course wouldn't survive and our climate and most of these are that are grown by market hobbyists are in the family. Explain that you know most of the Asian lady's slippers and then it's most commonly grown South American ladies of ours are and the teen is pregnant. And our Earth face the birds are in the PDM genus. And how many of those are there. Well worldwide there are roughly 50. There's some argument among. Taxonomists is is it just exactly how many there are. That's somewhere between 44 and the lower 50 minutes. So do we have species a sifter PDM and and the rest of the 440 States

there are no other five species and we we have 10 dated species in the lower 48 states. So if somebody is interested in growing these what are some recommendations that yeah. Well if you want to grow them outside which is what most people do I would recommend. Please don't dig them out of the wild. They're rare and if you take them out of the wild it won't be there for somebody else. See and they won't be there to reproduce and maintain a population in the wild so I really recommend that you have pain. Those have been propagated and planting them in the yard the two that are easiest to grow are the yellow latest I've heard there's a small one and a large woman there. The technical name of

Cypripedium part of the floor and the large one is similar PDM part of a farm right EPA pest and the small one is a pretty good part of Orem variety part of a forum so it's probably the two easiest to grow and then the state flower of the soil latest affair is also fairly easy. And as far as. So once you get them you obviously a site needs to be the kind of culture up on the spars where they're growing must be really critical. Yes yes and and the ideal thing is to quell let me let me back up and say the easiest way to grow them at least I might prefer a way to grow them is because that way to get them in the wrong place. You can move that very easily. But if you're looking for a fight and in your yard or in your garden you want to but that has mostly shade but it's not really dark shade.

I open shade you have with the canopy overhead and the understory No no pushes and no limbs on the trees. That's an ideal situation. So you do like a little sun but preferably early in the morning so that they don't get baked by. By direct sun when the sun is high in the sky. And it's it's really hard to get exactly the right like conditions in the wild. You'll find very often you find destroyed ladies the birth of perfume or Cheney or China growing in full sun all day long but if you try to. Transplant story ladies the produce conditions and chances are it would die down and in the heat of the day. And I'd be all right to get correct some like that when it's fully established and you have to

realize that in the H and sunny conditions of a little lady the fire was probably growing up in the shade of a higher competing vegetation through much of its life before it finally got well enough established that it's in direct sun. So finding a suitable location in terms of white is fairly difficult. Another problem is finding a place that has just the right level of soil moisture. Very often people will take a rich Chinese plan. Surely the stepper that maybe was dug up in a salvage operation when roads were being widened from that thing. And say oh well it is and they have it. It was there for all this planet. A lower area of my yard. And then later on it turns out that a lower area in the yard is flooded. Maybe after a snow belt this spring or it

might tend to be flooded for long periods after a heavy thunderstorm. And that's lethal. Even though surely they never need fairly well it carried it so well so it needs to be boys but not way so really like the very very edge of a bog might work but not in the bog itself or it's wet all the time right. You know the idea and just to keep it moist all the time. Never under water never in saturated soil. Have you noticed with the hotter drier temperatures that we've been experiencing last few years has that been detrimental to the conditions. Well it has all of the plants in the wild. This has been going up during our current drought and checking on some of the now while of you know only the first and a lot of them have pretty much

dried up for their capital. Even ripened This is particularly true of the ones in sunny spots are always at the edge of the forest and they get several hours of sunlight a day. The ones in the beaver would seem to have made it pretty well there are a lot of them. Last I checked a week ago were still quite green. Not understand one of the difficulties and I guess that this is tying in a little bit with the drought but that they can sometimes takes as long as 7 years to bloom. Does that mean that they have a chance of surviving under those drought conditions until the conditions get better. Or does that wipe them out altogether. Well I think the ones that went down are early this year probably will survive and the dry weather sets them back that since I've been in northern Minnesota for 10 years and I've been watching some particular populations of the bird for most of that time

and you can see a lot a lot of fluctuation in the size of the earth. Well there are some really large clumps of preserved or they were easy I guess four years ago and since then the weather's been drier and each year I've gone back in there the clumps are getting smaller. Where is originally. On one one case there is a clump of over two dozen stems in large scale at least the first and last time I looked last summer at the end of that the drought is down and fix them. It's really disappointing. They're surviving but they're not thriving on it. Dry conditions in them what about the propagation process if somebody is purchasing a plant say from SpinCo Creek labs out and I'm not sure whether you're actually

selling things or not so maybe I'm being presumptuous here but if they're purchasing something from a company is it going to bloom the next year what is the process. Well probably not. You mentioned are playing a pretty glamorous business and we still see them we sell them just after they come out of the lab. They're of little things that when they sleep out in the spring there are an inch or two of most high heat coming to high at the moment and so if there are not ready to be planted out they need they need a lot of care. You could put them out in your yard but then you would really have to watch over them every day and and water them you know every other day or so and and be really careful and in trying to take care of them to get them from the flowering side and that would probably take four or five years. So well.

It is faster than in nature yes and nature really takes 7 or 8 years or 10 years probably more likely landing on the species but it all depends on how lucky the plant is if the plant gets beaten all in one year by a predator that could set it back. It could kill it but it could also survive but it is my sense that you mean starting over again in terms of how long it takes to get the flower. Well it's a really another excellent point about why you should not pick them or certainly not dig them up because it sounds like it really doesn't men. Yes often. Well when they're small like that there. They're much harder to kind of raise even and even though when you if you were to dig up a small one you could get all the roots. It still takes a great deal of care to think as it has shallow roots to begin with. So if the topic intrude to soil dries out well it doesn't get

watered and done for. So you mentioned that spangle Creek labs produces seedlings for sale. What then do folks do when they purchased one of those what are their steps. Well that the status thing is to put it in a pot or put a number of them in a flat and put them where you can watch over them. Make sure that nothing needs them. There are all kinds of predators you have to worry about. There are a lot of this of course and caterpillars of various kinds and I think the small rodent holes will eat them in the presence of the little I have while they're dormant over the poles of the ground. Big plants too. But there are those kinds of predators chipmunks just like to dig and dig up things in and out of orneriness I guess they think Fairy season is over they may very well dig up your play has in the process. Birds will sometimes come

along and even without the static curiosity I think. And so you have to protect the little that I have from predators and you have to make sure that they're safe. They mores and says the food systems are shallow and that means watering them pretty frequently. And so this is what the money I want to buy is or thieving had to do. And and each year it gets easier. The plank as a player you can let them out in the yard initially but that means to you the first year or two you really have to be diligent and caring for them once they get a little larger that they're not so demanding but a lot of our customers are nursery and they are going to see it. But to have to deal with young plants and grow them on in a in a greenhouse or other controlled environment and these in their 30s and still are probably gated but I have one there.

But I mean the size or nearly ballooning size and you also mentioned having them in pots so can you grow them inside or do they have to be outside. Well it's easier to grow them outside. You can grow them indoors under lights. But that raises your electric bill and that's probably not where you do you really want them anyway. So it's it's a good system. To put them in pots you have forged something that has the right amount of light to a good spot where you can watch over them or you can get them or small children. Those are kinds of hazards to worry about. Many gives a web page here for folks who may be interested. Actually you could just Google spangle Creek labs on the web page and correct me if I'm wrong but as I'm looking at here is Us link dot net for

Slash and then it still d that's a little squiggly thing. S A C Ira C. L. S. C. L. S. C. L. forward slash. So again that's us. Link dot net. Forward slash Tildy. Little squiggly thing at c l forward slash or just google spangle Creek labs. Or another way to find this is that my wife son is growing on some of our plants and selling them in size and his website is. Ladies you know that's a good easy one. Yeah that's easier and there's so many more quiet light on the way to the far right. Well it's and as I'm looking at the website now it's really beautiful you've got some phenomenal photographs. If anybody wants to take a look at some of these different varieties and as you're talking about some of the yellow lady's slipper

with they're just all they're all just beautiful nice thank you. Well we're going to take a quick little musical break and we'll be back you're listening to Northern gardening here. And we're speaking with Bill Steele from Bovey Minnesota and spangle Creek labs we're talking about raising native lady slippers if you've got a question for us you can call us at 3 8 7 10 70 or 800 4 7 3 9 8 4 7 or you can e-mail us WTOP dot org. Actually if you've had some success raising some lady's slippers we'd like to hear about that too. So give us a ring or give us an e-mail and I would sure like to hear about saving some of these really really beautiful and important native plants. There's the music for you here in northern gardening. Northern gardening this Friday morning we're broadcasting live on Friday and we

rebroadcast on Wednesday right after the P.M. community program at 6 o'clock. And if you've got a gardening question your grilling certainly can call 3 8 7 10 70 or 800 4 7 3 9 4 7. You can e-mail your question org and we will get back to you. Particular if you're calling on Wednesday will be available to take your call but we will keep you on your message and we'll get back to you. Right now we're talking with Bill Steele. He's from Bovey Minnesota. CLAPTON he's been studying the native lady's slippers for quite a few years. Goodness it sounds like since you were a little guy and in particular we're talking about how to raise them how to propagate them how to grow them. And we've been talking a lot about some of those aspects but I don't think we've talked about soil yet what kind of recommendations do you have Bill. A lot on the species the yellow lace the bird is not all that fussy about.

You can actually grow that large flowered yellow to let her in and most garden soil in the lighting conditions are right. But that doesn't mean that the garden soil is the best and what I'd like to do for the yellow separate to put it in. Mix well and it's I put in a mix of sand and composted hardwood in the fall and probably a mix of 50 percent sand and 50 percent more is ideal for both the large already bellies and the small yellow ladies that are now when I tell people that are we to say that in the instructions we send along with the plants we produce. People often say Oh gee what is legal work can I get legal. And a lot of communities have composting facilities for yard waste. You know our nearest city Grand Rapids has that accent

at least Yardley's companies seem to sell they were people hold their yard to bees in the fall and you can dump your lease free and you can pick up a car for free. Personally I don't. Why anybody would want to give up their their leaves that are that of valuable resource. But I'm too. I'm eager to go there and compost when I need it in the spring. So that's one good source or a lot of beef products sold at Walmart or from Depot claiming to be topsoil cracks the compost that leaves the room. Come to think of all these that sell their product commercially so that's a good source for this organic matter to put in the mix. But the only separate isn't that fussy probably and to so long as it has a mix it careens a fairly freely it open and doesn't dry out too much. Your beef and I have no

problem growing your yellow light appeared at the Shirley lady's stepper is a little bit fussy and it likes a lot of organic matter for nutrients and you find it growing and in swamps and not in saturate conditions but in a black. Soil that if you take that organic rich soil and put it in your bed it in different physical conditions. The organic matter will gradually decompose and you're just left with a salty mess. So you need to use something to be able to give the store from AirAsia. When you win you have to show you that I mean your current And what I'd like to do is to use a lot of sand and a little bit of organic matter. Maybe it's sand say to one part all

that way that the mix retains a lot of air after a rain the water runs through quickly and so there is sort of as always well area to destroy they never really appreciate it. Problem with using the sand in a mix in pots is it makes the really heavy. So instead of using sand in a potting mix we like to use perlite. Light is white fluffy all Kanak material that has been heated to artificially expand it and it's kind of ugly stuff you put in beds outside it tends to float up to the surface and looks bad and it's more manageable and it keeps the pot from being too heavy and yet it provides good AirAsia. So we can part with the showy lady's superb probably use again

for parts of her like one part of organic matter and in the yellow a separate one or two parts of her life to one part of organic matter. Now there are there are other ladies that breeze that had people write a great try to raise and one of them is the pinkly the Brit also made it here and it has very different requirements that the main requirement for the Pink Ladies are that Cypripedium McCauley the main requirement is very fit condition and what I think least upper end to Pima coli is that 50 percent sand and 50 percent chop segment people. And then I'd like to use them all teach Tamarac Neal. Maybe an inch thick layer of Tamarac he'll

go to a stand of Tamarac in a low area maybe even in the stagnant bog. You can find places where the trees are dense and there is a layer of composting Tamarac needles on the ground and that makes the next and all chip for growing the pink lady that the real secret is growing. The Pink Ladies the fur is to water the plants with solution. Rain water or distilled water be mineralized water and a little vinegar use some white cider vinegar at one or two I would says per gallon of rainwater. Yeah so really likes the acid. Yes yes it absolutely requires at it even if you didn't used to be an eager diffused from rainwater. Eventually after two or three years that the plant

would decline and it just wouldn't have been the city conditions. You know this the state substrate needs to have a Ph. It's certainly less than five and preferably less than the 4.5 various city conditions. As we're talking about you know adding something each year what about fertilizer do you need to provide other food you've got to keep the leaf mold in there providing some but eventually that whatever nutrient scheme of the leaf mold will be defeated and some feeding does help. Hey usually you order with a one for one fourth of recommended spring commercial fertilizer and compete for life is something that has all the minor interest elements as well as the nitrogen phosphorus. But

in wondering it's better to error by giving too little nutrition than too much. Have you ever used like a compost tea or any singer is that like you're saying to rich. That would probably be good I haven't used compost tea what it what I did. It worked really really well was to use a fish emote fish emulsion fertilized the latest the prince just loved it. But here's here's the rub. I had a friend tell me that hey he knew somebody who was using the fish emulsion fertilizer and and head is landfall and if it plants all torn up I reckon. Well sure. So you're going to use fish emulsion fertilizer you better have. It's a pretty pretty sturdy cage. Yeah a place that there aren't as many raccoons although we're starting to see I don't know if you're seeing him but we've been starting seeing them here. We have we have a lot of that's correct.

I'm sorry to hear that back. Yeah well it if the soil is very so much to the light the light needs vary as well. Yeah and I think I already sort of indicated that when you find I had growing on you find stories like the birds and to some extent you know always the birds growing in the wild and you know and were heard on Earth before they get several hours of direct sunlight even during the hot part of the day. They probably grew up in the shade. The other vegetation and so young plants really need the open a lot more protection from the light and order plants do. And that's that's one reason I like to grow them in pots is so they can move so I can move them around. But if you put them someplace that they don't get enough light they may thrive in washington state of growing things.

Sorry ladies. The proceedings in the greenhouse. And I had some in the front window where they get lots of sun and others back. I did eventually they got no direct sun and the plants that got no direct sun really they produced this luxuriant and really bright green. Education and they were about half again as big as the plants growing in direct sun. But the plant you know that never got direct sun never bloom. So the plants that were getting direct sun were much much smaller than the plants in the shade. But they soon after some cases as early as two years out of the class that the rear values and even more years out of the flask. But but the other is in shade never did. So

that's a little bit of a problem from writing to exactly the right lay conditions. Often I've gotten calls from people who've transplanted a lady's story ladies from somewhere and they said oh it bloomed for the first several years I had it. And in the last couple years it's been declining and this year it didn't bloom at all and so I asked him about the shading in the yard. Do you have any trees that have grown bigger and and give it. Are they giving the plants more shade and that usually turns out to be the case so that the plants do need a little bit of direct sun in order preferably that direct sun should be in the early part of the day before 10 o'clock and have many hours per song. People say oh you know two to three or four to five six to eight you know.

You know well I think for a story this after the move it's probably have three or four hours of sun. But probably it to be a condition like that. So again if somebody is growing it under the shade of a tree then it's best if the tree is actually at its full growth when they put it in as opposed to a young tree that's that's all going to change right. Just saying and you also mentioned as far as the showy lady's slipper having Tamarac needles on if you've got a Tamarac area where they're thriving would that be a good place then to put them. Well that's the pinkly no excuse for being a clone. And yes that would be a good place to put them. We were surrounded by camera box proof logs and. Probably at least half of them could talk to a nation. Thankfully there is already.

But if you have a fault like that that doesn't have the powers that would be a good place. Trying to do things and then you mentioned a little earlier about if you know of an area that's going to be disturbed significantly and you know there's a population there is there a process for removing an official process that you need to go through. Yes you need to get a couple permits I think you need to get one from the Department of Agriculture and you also need to get written permission from the landowner private landowner and the person is a friend. That's no problem. Can agencies like the Department of Transportation or county road department or whatever then it's more complicated because you have to find out who really is the land owner and get their permission whether it's from the state or the county or whatever agency you go to.

Now what if an area is just I should say just but if you're just going to be logged does that actually affect the population. Well they spring back from the. Well it depends on the species. Some species may even be helped by the log. I know what this this is not a species we have around here but everybody in Montana I'm a mountain lady but they are fairly common in the Rocky Mountains and in the eastern Cascade mountains of Washington and I've seen places that have been going I thought oh well it's the end of the East River is a bit you know that the Montana plant Saxby worries they would develop more flowers for them and they were really helped out by getting a little more light. But those people. And on this species here I would think that there's a good chance that the story ladies the priest at least of the larger ones would survive and maybe even be helped by the logging.

So if you know and he's going to be logged it doesn't mean you need to rush in and get the latest the prisoner because they'll probably be just fine right there. There are others that are straight in Target thinking of are our threatened species. Graham said Lady Liberty and that would probably be killed by an increase in light. But then that's that's the whole category it felt like it was a threatened species. You'd have to get permission from the DNR as well as a landowner. So we've been talking a lot about these different types. Maybe you could describe it. The Rams Head I'm not familiar with but what does that one look like. Well it's our smallest native one and it has a it's called the Rams Head. They separate species is the PDM area tying them. And the flower actually looks like a goat's head. Kind of a pointed chin like the goatee beard of a goat.

And it's red and white it's kind of a pretty little thing that you have to get down in your head hands and knees to see it. And that's one that's not really a available for for horticulture because it's illegal and quite even illegal to possess them. Yeah yeah. Why are there assuming that you've taken them from somewhere. Yeah yeah. And and certainly it's not one that you can buy and you know it well and it's very endangered. Yes it's well it's formally classed as threatened. OK. But what's the distinction between the two. Well endangered. Means that it's not really to take it to it's about to become extinct. Where is being

threatened means that if it's not protected it could become endangered. So but again you're not allowed to possess and why that one as opposed to some of the others that are also I mean is that the only one that's on the threatened. Well that's the only threatened by the fire in Minnesota. OK. Maybe you could describe some of the other lady's slippers for folks. Well one we don't have right here is the small white ladies for Canada and it occurs in southern Minnesota and in western Minnesota it's basically a very quiet and it pretty much requires full sun and so that's why it's not native here or our native habitat was forced at one time. But it's something that people can grow around here pretty easily. All they have to do is have it in an open area where it gets plenty of sun it likes

it. It's kind of noisy just like rich irony like that surely they can allow it to dry out at any time. And then what's what is the shadowy lady slipper versus the pink for some reason I get those two mixed up in it a lot a lot of people do. Some people refer to the joy they the slippers the pink lady killer because it has a pink on it but it's true. Think ladies that were good for beating a McCauley it is our hope it be lifted. I think not just a part of it is and the Story Lady and the story ladies that there is a big plant several leave it up to the yard high. And thanks ladies the for its sermon probably not even half that size and it has always been a Latin name is repeating a call in a call I mean them.

So the Pink Ladies the first probably called the stemless Lee. Yes lots of people refer to the Shortly after the state flower of the frankly but really it's pink and white in them what about the moccasin flowers that did it and get its word another name for the pink lady. It starts to get confusing it is flint which again if you're sticking with the letter names then you know exactly what you're talking about. That's sometimes the frankly that for me is all white. There is a white formica. I've never seen it in Minnesota. I suspect somewhere there must be one. But in parts of the range of European McCauley particularly and northern New England the white form is pretty common in the NT. How many did you say that there were five different ones in northern Minnesota or five in Minnesota to see.

Well yeah five. In northern Minnesota I guess if you consider northwest Minnesota the small white of that place differ I would take it very seriously that would that that's a northern Minnesota in them what so what are the other the other ones that you talked about the showy in the pink and then one of the other three. Oh OK the the other ram said Lady Liberty and oh I talk about the Shirley and the yellow and the pink and then there's the the Rams Head ladies the for in the small white ladies the fact that that's a total of five. Yeah yeah and there are there are two forms of the yellow lady's separated with a small already you know larger variety and I'm sorry going and I going to say nationwide there are several others. There's a southern lady to

play for sympathy in Kentucky. And that's a very spectacular plant the plant is almost as big as the showy lady of her and the flower is actually bigger. It's the largest flowered of all the different eating feces all over the world and I found that that will grow here and it should probably have a little bit aware of protection and it doesn't really surprise here it increases a little bit from year to year but we really don't have quite long enough growing season for it. He has your crew and put it into a commune have time here for another month. And then and in the mountains. Well there he is sipping a Montana that looks a lot like the yellow lady's suffered large. The only person in essence except it has a White House that if yellow out. And then there's the California only different that's a big tall plant with

lots of stems but it has a lot of little white letters on it. Ours are small and white and probably anything the flower is smaller than the small yellow leaf cutter. There's one called the clustered lady's slipper and that's certainly not much of the subject for her to culture is that the flowers are brown and they hang down close to the ground. They cannot hurt even see the flowers and then there's as sparrows a glaze that occurs in the northern Rocky Mountains in Montana in the southern part of the brain. It's actually it's Currys not far over the border here in Minnesota in the Thunder Bay Ontario area. Interesting. And then there's there's one from Alaska. The spot at least the part of repeating that I found the prize in our climate here. Oh

it is the garden and it's probably my favorite. It spreads like a ground cover and it's about oh eight to 10 inches high and has white flowers of the lip is white with kind of a magenta modeling on it really a beautiful little thing and it grows he says these these are native. So I think it has a lot of horticultural potential at least in northern Minnesota. And for folks who are interested in finding out a little bit more some of the resources that they could to follow up on. OK well one blow up that that's a very handy reference not just for lady slippers but for all our organs in Minnesota. The book is called orchids of Minnesota. Might well be Smith and it has a lot of color pictures and so. Beautiful line drawing

and it has a distribution that is a different species and given the range of proving times for each of the species so it's very helpful to people who are interested in going out in the field to be worth it. As the parrot lady the person you know there is this an excellent monograph the this is the standard reference for a similar PDM ladies that carries it. It's titled The genus PDM I thought appropriate. World famous orchid expertise also written books about others for work it is in another volume called the genus Cypripedium. I think the genus but the genus different medium I think may be out of print now. Somebody told me that it was he couldn't find it and inquired It was out of print.

It's only published in 1997 so it didn't pay and print very long maybe libraries have a resource of it and for folks that are interested in looking this up again the authors Philip the R.I. and then Cypripedium misspelled see why. PR I. Very good. I got it off your web page I could never have done it. And and one web site I would recommend for people interested in growing Cypripedium. It's called the difference. For let me give you the you are out w w via t flash for him and for us forwards index h t m. Now that's a wonderful resource. It's a German website and

growing Cypripedium is a big thing in Europe but all over the world write in with questions to the forum and don't get a lot of answers from expert growers and I think their expert growers and the only thing that site is trying to sort out who really knows what. You know that's true of a lot of websites but I still often point out time and growing that it will make that work for one person may not be the best for another person because it depends on things like how much you water the plant and how much fertilizer and even other things like how much light you know. So there really is no one best method for determining find out what works for you. Well that's pretty encouraging and I'm going to give that resource again the lady's slipper.

If you performed a comedy that's a resource where you can actually purchase. Lady slippers as I understand that correctly right. So for folks who are interested in that kind of wraps it up here for northern gardening. I've been speaking with Bill Steele from Bovey Minnesota and spangle Creek labs. Bill I want to thank you very very much for sharing your extensive knowledge and experience about lady slippers and thank you so much for joining us and I want to thank you for having me. Yup glad glad to have you and let you get back to work. Thanks so much. Salut Lee that's really true. And the programming here on Northern gardening is supported by a superior lumber and sports a full sized lumber and hardware store located one mile east of grammar a spare lumber and sports is locally owned and offers a wide range of garden supplies patio furniture and Doctor cooking grills more information available at 3 8 7 1 7 7 1 in support also comes from Evergreen originals greenhouse at Skype or Lane

16 sky Portland grammar A. Specializing in annual sales for our northern climate also offering shrubs veggies herbs and a wide selection of hanging baskets. Information available in person are 3 8 7 2 8 6 2 in support also comes from Edwin E. Thorson incorporated contractors working to fill landscaping needs in the northland 3 8 7 1 6 4 4. That wraps it up for northern gardening I've been your host Paula send it and this be rebroadcast on Wednesday at 6 o'clock. Thanks so much for listening and get out there to your garden.