Idaho Reports; Day Care

The funding for this program is provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the friends of our 10 and 12. How safe are the children in Idaho daycare centers and should the centers be licensed by the state. We'll look at that story tonight. Good evening. The last session of the Idaho legislature failed despite several efforts to pass legislation requiring some licensing of daycare centers in Idaho. But for a variety of reasons it seems that the issue of daycare licensing just won't go away. For one thing the incidence of child abuse or neglect in daycare centers is constantly in the headlines nationally. Our focus tonight is on whether some licensing is needed in Idaho and also on how safe the daycare centers are here. We start tonight with two reports the first from Bruce Reichard in Boise.

A man convicted in California of molesting children moved to Idaho and runs a daycare center in court a lane called the busy bee center is shut down only after a dozen Idaho children are abused in Boise a mental patient accused of killing her own child has no trouble getting a state daycare license. A woman is later linked to 20 suspicious fires in the area and another Boise in this when a convicted burglar was told by a judge to stop offering daycare. Even though he and his common law wife had been operating a facility for several years. The 1984 legislature is coming God and so have any attempts of regulating daycare centers on a statewide basis even though the vast majority of Idaho legislators wanted some kind of control over daycare centers. The Senate and the House couldn't agree on who should have that control whether it should be the counties or the State Department of Health and Welfare. Last week the Boise City Council decided that it wasn't going to wait any longer for the legislature to make up its mind. Last Monday night they rushed through some amendments which would give city

officials some guidelines in determining whether to grant to revoke their care licenses. Now the bill isn't perfect mind you but according to city officials it's less vague than the previous ordinance. The Boise law now requires childcare operators to be at least 18 years old. Furthermore they can't have had their licenses revoked in the last three years nor can there have been in the last three years a felony larceny or sexual misconduct conviction. After this legislative session and really brought it home to us that if anything was going to be done on day care licensing cities were going to have to do it themselves. William Fawcett is the author of Boise's new day care bill. We asked him why he put a three year limit on convictions even if those convictions are for sex crimes. From the cases that I've seen in the past an ordinance which gave that much control that much discretion to the licensing authority would probably be held to be unconstitutional a bag and therefore we would have no licensing ordinance rather than a specific

licensing ordinance a least what we have here now is better than what we have anywhere else in the state. But if child abuse is a sickness not easily cured one wonders of a three year limit is the answer. That could that could very well be so. I'm not familiar with your sources and I haven't had those readings. We doubt that it really strengthened the ordinance. Now again you know we might look at a few years down the line and realize that exactly what you said happened. Hopefully it doesn't. Boise City Clerk likes the new ordinance under the old one she had the difficult task of judging a daycare operator's character and reputation to see if that person should get a license. The way it was so vague before it put a lot of the discretion upon me that I had to determine whether an applicant met those qualifications and as anything you know you can be arbitrary in one

day maybe feel the situation fits here and not here and and then you discriminate. The new ordinance hasn't changed one thing. Boise's daycare operators must still be licensed by the state and then by the city the city's license ensures a fire inspection a building inspection and a police check on everyone at the facility. But city officials say only half of Boise's almost 200 day care facilities have even bothered to get a license. They are in violation. What we want to do is work with the operators that many might have been unaware that they needed the license or didn't realize how important the license I think it's getting more important all the time just because citizens are contacting us. If you're not willing to enforce the daycare ordinance why even bother with another ordinance. We are cracking down. We're starting with the larger facilities and smaller Priscilla on a complaint basis. But while Boise officials say they are serious about licensing childcare facilities they admit they

can't do it alone. Interesting individuals fall in the system and we need the manpower to review it and that. Vigilance. What do you need from the legislature. It would be it would be nice if we were if the state arm had enforcement powers as it is now. It's a toothless line but some daycare operators in Idaho are adamantly opposed to any form of state licensing. So far they've carried the day with the Idaho legislature the leading opponent of state licensing for years has been daycare operator Della jolly of Pocatello. Here's Paul the whistle. The children begin to arriving here around 7:00 a.m. By 9:00 most of the 30 youngsters infants to six years

of age who will occupy the basement of this house for the day will be here. There has been written down time and make sure every child is here at 30 I have all the children lined up on the pitch and to make sure that we haven't lost a child. There is no sign identifying this as care. According to Della jolly that's all that this will bring to this residential neighborhood in Pocatello. This is just one of three businesses owned by Della Jolie and her husband. They operate a wedding chapel a few blocks away. It's a story out of there. Is that right. There's a spot your sister saw.

Norman and Della jolly have operated the daycare center for almost 20 years. They pride themselves on the fact that it is a family business. Several of their daughters are actively involved in the business on a daily basis. In the early morning like when you first came when there's just a few children my husband was on while I was getting my own children going. And then as the number grows in just a few minutes my daughter will come on. And this is the time when we separate the older children are taught are taught by my husband. They have a very good progressive kindergarten program. And the little ones do some activities learning activity. One often hears in this part of Idaho that government has gotten too big that the state's bureaucracies have become too powerful and that personal freedoms are being

violated. Jealous opposition to the state licensing of daycare centers is based on many of these same issues. In her opinion the state Department of Health and Welfare should not be in the business of inspecting and licensing day care facilities. First of all the daycare inspector are a law unto themselves. I'm for local control where the people are elected. The in the day care. Bill. Well in the Idaho code it says that health care has the right to write any rules and regulations they deem necessary and the right to enforce their own regulations. It gives them a blight. The last bill that was before the legislature was ridiculous. It said that in me. It was covered day care homes and if you cared for four or less children. You would have to be state licensed.

This would make it necessary for health and welfare to in every. Home in the state and it would make it practically a police state in investigating everything. If you cared for children under age 2 you would have to have two people on duty at all times. It would make it financially prohibitive. I think that state licensing would give a stamp of approval and that parents would think the state is inspected for me and that might let down the parents guard. The parents are the best inspectors. They are they walk in without knocking at any time throughout the day. They are caring people. If some do not care there are enough that do care. Yes I believe that.

The free enterprise system will keep the quality high. I do believe that it is that in the day care our people involved with children. Would be willing and should be willing to allow themselves to be submitted to a police check to make sure that they have. Nothing on the record. I have three children and I brought all three of them here. But you obviously like it what you like about it. They get a lot of TLC here. They've just really been well taken care of any time I've had a sick child here I've always been called immediately. I just really feel that people here are loving and caring. How do you feel about the state licensing of daycare centers. I don't feel that it's necessary at all. I for one can't afford it. I've tried another nursery and I pay $10 a day for one child. And compared to what I pay here I'd rather bring them here where I

know the people and the prices are better here. I pay $4 a day. Most are places that are state licensed. Now most places here that things are going wrong are state licensed. I think state licensing would cause an increase in daycare rates which I personally cannot afford. It creates a problems for daycare owners where they have to a certain ratio for their kids and the prices that they would have to charge would be more than they'd want to charge more than I would afford. What would you do if state licensing became mandatory. I am afraid that no matter what I did they would find something that is so rather than be intimidated out of business I would call closed voluntarily because I was told. I said if these

regulations go close me now this inspector had never been to my place and as quickly and as quietly as possible. More on the daycare licensing controversy in Idaho now from three people who have followed the issue from three different perspectives. Donna Scott is a state representative from Twin Falls Representative Scott is a member of the House Health and Welfare Committee committee which considered day care licensing legislation during the last legislative session. Sure and Bixby is one of the principal advocates for a state licensing program. She lobbied for that in the legislature she's from Boise. And right where the road works for the I don't apartment of Health and Welfare is the bureau chief for the division of social services. He oversees what voluntary licensing now takes place. Let me ask you about what Mrs. Jolie just said there in that last comment on the videotape in essence that she fears that the Department of Health and Welfare of the state would be shutting down her daycare center presumably others like her or hers if there were state licensing. I've heard that comment in the past and to the best of my knowledge there's no

foundation for that concern on her part. Basically the operation and what I've heard about the operation that she runs is is an licensable type of operation. So bottom line is she doesn't have much to fear from love from what has been proposed or not acted in Idaho. I don't believe so. I really don't. There's a number of those concerns that that we hear. For instance they talk about if we have mandatory licensing that the costs will go out of sight. There have been surveys done in the state of Idaho which indicate that that just is not true. I want to come back to that question but let me first return to the basic question that I put at the beginning of the broadcast and I want to ask each of you about this represent Scott in your view how safe are these daycare centers. You know it's a tough question but in general drugs especially for this.

Well one thing that I would like to point out is that you can at this present time get a state license for your day care center. And I believe that those individuals who bother to get a state license for advertising purposes and of course they're in the Yellow Pages and someone comes from out of state and sees that here is a day care center that's licensed by the state it should be safe. And they willing to let in eagerly take their child there and be cared for just because they advertise as such but as we found out in court Lang this didn't mean a great deal because in this day care center the individual was licensed by the state. But. As Potter mentioned the five minute check of his background would have proven that he was not a safe person to leave your children with and it was a delightful surrounding very Cuban people went there in droves and took their children and and many of them were abused.

So is the lesson there that state licensing would not necessarily assure safety and not in Idaho at this time. The state licensing wouldn't unless it were mandated but our biggest problem there is that the mandate of the licensing of the facility doesn't preclude that the individual might not abuse the child is because. Well I think there is more to safety than not having an adult who is going to sexually molest the children. That those cases of course are are bizarre and shouldn't happen but probably the biggest safety hazard we have right now is too many children and not enough adults and that's one thing that state licensing can look at if we have a uniform set of standards statewide. To me the ratio of the number of supervisors if you will to the number of children are taken care of right. And that's one thing that stabilizes into the sure. Or is it a Scout Group. Well I believe that this child's safety is something that the government should be

concerned about and this is the worst atrocity it would be to sexual abuse of the child. But it's up to the parent to decide whether or not the daycare center is clean or it's going to be large enough or they're going to be well cared for and I believe this is brought home recently I attended a seminar in 20 falls that was put together by a child to be a stain and at this time I would certainly like to command a maybe a for this issue that's been brought forth to the public in regards to child abuse it's a national issue at this time. And at this seminar the woman who put it together with an individual from Oregon and she said the answer lies in parental responsibility the communication with your child a very young age to help them know what to look for how to protect themselves against other people who might be about to harm them. So from

that point of view I see the very importance of parental responsibility and that's for sure I would like to see that happen really the parents are the best inspectors. I believe they are. I think there are certain things that parents can look for and they can certainly exercise their personal preferences and philosophy are the activities that are going on there are the kinds of things they want their child involved in. How much television is watched. What kind of television is watched what kind of discipline is used. But I think there are some safety issues that parents have a difficult time inspecting for. Are the poisons always in a locked cabinet are there rough edges in the playground equipment. How much space is really available are parents going to measure that. Parents are not going to look into the more physical kinds of things they're going to look more into. Is this place going to be a home away from home for my child. These are things in your view that state a uniform state licensing system could address.

Right. I think if it's if if the regulations are carefully written and the people who are involved in the implementation of the regulations are knowledgeable and knowledgeable about daycare I think that they can address those kinds of things to one of the other Scott mentioned celebrated in court and Bruce Reichard earlier mentioned a couple in the local Boise area not long ago. My question is are those isolated sort of one in a thousand type incidents or do we even know how frequent those sorts of things take place. Unfortunately they are isolated kind of experiences. We we get complaints weekly and daily in some cases from all over the state and they care providers. Some of them are very serious and some of them are minor kinds of complaints that it is a fairly frequent kind of thing and I wouldn't want to paint a picture that they care providers are a

bad lot because they are by and large there. Good caliber of people who are providing a necessary service and all that. Yeah it's a frequent and a lot of the complaints are valid as the quarter lane situation and state licensing would help you get some of those problems. Certainly would I think the CT or LN incident is an example of one of the Boise situations as an example or observe as Scott said earlier that that fellow in Coraline was licensed by the state. He had a state license. The the. We currently do not have a system of mandatory background police record criminal record checks on day care providers who are licensed by the state. So that's an Auburn asunder under our current RC So if an operator gets one of these voluntary licenses doesn't really mean very much which is on its own. As far as it varies from place to place

in the state if the operator agrees to a background check then that is done in some cases. We generally have that guarantee where there's a really critical saying the background check. I believe that is one of the critical things. I think there are other critical issues as well but that one is certainly important. It was but I think one real critical issue worth bringing up is that if an operator or a place is found to be unsafe or there are some molestation going on and a license is revoked there's nothing to stop the person from continuing to operate. Parents find out about what's going on they immediately pull their children out of these places they know better but unfortunately unknowing parents fill those slots quickly and so that those people who are hard committing the worst crimes are reaching even more children than the good providers who keep their children there for years. Well Scott you're very case for state license and you've heard it before right.

Right count we're now at. Has a little history for the people who aren't aware when the Senate bill came to the house. It was obvious that it wasn't going to fly in its present state the way it was. The Senate bill was a state law. Yes it was a state licensing bill with the health and welfare are in place to do the inspections and we had a 6 to 6 vote and of course it died in committee and at that time I was as concerned as anyone about the welfare of children and daycare centers and when I realized it wasn't going to make it I offered to work all summer on a new bill and our chairman felt there wasn't that much time. He said you got til Tuesday so we put together a bill in about four days and we worked with the attorney general's office so the bill we had was constitutional. We worked with some local people and that we're involved with day care centers with Potter from the police department we worked with that I don't want to interrupt you but in essence it was a county

license bill to let county governments do sort of this check it out to a local level which was not something that the people who objected to the Senate bill would object to. They did not object to having a background check. They said hey we're clane fingerprints if you want. They didn't object to that. And they did not object to have a brought to a local level where the counties were responsible for doing this safety inspections and fire inspections. Which would look for some of the things that Sherman is concerned about from then on they felt it was the responsibility of the parent to choose a good daycare center. You didn't think that went far enough. I think that the counties were not going to be able to do what the bill was mandating that they do and they even said that to us. And also a city official has told me here in Boise they don't have. We heard it on the tape we don't have the manpower we don't have the expertise to carry this out. How are all these little communities smaller

counties and populated counties going to hire somebody with expertise in daycare to be able to enforce and carry out the bill. How will they do it. SCOTT Well first of all I command the Boise City for what they've done perhaps they need to include the county because I'm sure a facility could move outside the city limits in practice. But they played without it and abiding by that the city ordinance which I think was Bixby's point was that the city of Boise you heard the city clerk almost admit that they're cracking down now but only now after a couple celebrated cases. There are many centers that are not licensed despite it. Tough job for local governments true but this is where it should take place on a local level this is what people have said they want local control and yet when we give them local control then they go through this difficult period of time of figuring out how to work it out. But as I have mentioned also we're going through a period of time of a national focus on this problem more people than ever are aware that

the horrible things that are happening in regard to child abuse and I believe parents at this time are opening their eyes and saying what can we do to avoid it. Wouldn't some system of a lower level county government level work this through. I mean I'm not really pro or con for state ran or county ground. I can see advantages and disadvantages both way. And and if we had an adequate bill that would be designed to ensure that the basic kind of things that need to be done to protect children were done. Rather it's at the county level at the state level. It wouldn't matter to me. I obviously see advantages to the state level because you have the state wide this capability built in for standards for the program. It seems to me to put words in Miss Scott's mouth but Mrs. jolly seemed to be saying in the paper earlier that they're really concerned about this faceless nameless

bureaucracy coming in and inspecting homes and ordering people around them drawing up regulations I think that if that's what it really boils down to it's a natural fear. When when you say an inspection by the Department of Health and Welfare I think that's not something that people open their arms and say welcome. A lot of licensed providers now we have six hundred and forty at any given time licensed providers and I would say we have positive working relationships with mentor and that's one of the problems though is it's not the people who are really concerned about the state partner health and welfare coming on their property big brother you know. 1984 is here and you know that the government is moving in and people fair perhaps down the road looking at a government controlled daycare center and that they would be molding the minds of the children and there they really think about this and you have to listen to those people because their concerns are vital.

But there is another issue that we might be thinking about and this is the fact that sometimes and very often are state licensed day care centers are subsidized by the government not only for the care of ADC children but also grocery items that they use to provide funds for some appliances in kitchens where they care centers needed. Now that is no longer a fact and it's also true that they are no longer providing the subsidies and that will be coming last and instead they will provide a tax credit for people to pay for. Let me just as the last word here. If some of your concerns about the counties being able to do this job could be somehow set. I think it's important to think about what the goals of licensing are one is to protect the children. Two is to upgrade the quality of care. And three is to through an educational process also to up to protect the rights of the providers.

And when when I hear Boise City say we were going to upgrade our law so that we can close some centers down that's not the goal of licensing for we're going to have to leave it there. Time is too short but we appreciate you being here Mr. what a road experience. Thank you very much. That's our time for tonight and work for us. Thank you for joining us tonight. The funding for this program is provided by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the friends of four 10 and 12. Tomorrow night on I don't know reports whether or not it will conquer Boise Cascade chairman John Kerry. I think we probably have enough wilderness. As long as we're assured and I feel

quite confident about this we have protected the pristine areas of our state. Tomorrow night Boise Cascade chairman John bering on. I don't recall.