Idaho Reports; White Train

Funding for Idaho reports is provided by the Friends of four 10 and 12. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by a grant from the laurel more Cunningham foundation. If you cross the barrier with a trained dancer you will be arrested for trespassing. In February of this year seven southwestern Idaho residents were arrested while protesting the passage through Idaho of a train that they say was carrying nuclear warheads. A similar train is on its way again with another protest planned tonight. You are. Good evening at 8 o'clock tonight a group of Kenton County residents will gather near a Union Pacific railroad crossing in Nampa to hold what they're calling a teaching and vigil. The group the Kenyon County citizens for peace had been planning the gathering

to coincide with the passage of a train that they say carries nuclear warheads. Apparently that train dubbed the white train will not now come through southern Idaho but will instead cross the Idaho panhandle in the far northern part of the state on the rail line that runs through Sandpoint. The passage possibly coming tomorrow in February when a similar train did cross southern Idaho it was met by small groups of demonstrators all across the state. The groups are protesting the nuclear arms race and eye nuclear activists say the trains transport nuclear weapons components from a plant in Texas to the U.S. Navy's Trident submarine base on Puget Sound in Washington state. The group is vowing tonight not to break any laws with the vigil and instead has invited area political candidates to attend and talk about their views on the nuclear arms race. The Reverend Faneuil Pierce of Nampa has been an organizer of the white train vigils. He was one of those arrested for trespassing in February when the train last crossed Idaho. Robert Pierce if there is no train to protest tonight you hope to accomplish.

Well basically we're sponsoring a forum or an opportunity for public officials and particularly those who are standing for election this year to come and share their point of view. The focus of the February demonstration that you had on the tape a moment ago was basically to raise consciousness about the fact that the white train which has traveled through this part of Idaho for almost 20 years now is in fact coming through our communities with these bombs. And I think we succeeded in that goal I think most people now in this area know that the white train travels through this area. Tonight we hope to participate more in an educational forum to listen to people's views on this perhaps if there's an opportunity to dialogue with them. Now what if you thought I take it until some time earlier today that the train might really come through southern Idaho again. But it's not. Why. Well I first tipped off that the train wasn't coming to Nampa. It was yesterday morning and we

called the Nampa police chief and he said that he hadn't received word that the train was coming and Normally he's notified and indeed we now have definite word that it's taking the northern route. It should be in Sandpoint Idaho. We estimate at 1:30 Thursday or Thursday afternoon. The reason it's not coming and we have this from the headquarters of this whole movement in Seattle is in fact a result of the demonstrations here in February. So they've rerouted it on the basis of the demonstration where you and some other folks were arrested Absolutely. In fact now the train will not go through Colorado because of the massive demonstrations that were there last summer and fall and now they are apparently avoiding southern Idaho and trying to find the route of least resistance. Do you expect some protest in Sandpoint. Well as a matter of fact that's being organized tonight and tomorrow and yes I suspect there will be some protests in Sandpoint. I don't know if they'll be civil disobedience but. I'm sure there'll be some demonstrations there local people in the Sandpoint

area or from from this part of the state too. Well mostly the northern Idaho from CT or LN Lewiston Moscow. I wouldn't be surprised if several car loads of people might travel from southern Idaho. Let me ask you this finally you you and others were fairly heavily criticized I think it's fair to say that you were engaged in back in February and even before you knew that this train was not coming through tonight. You had said that several different videos would not be a part of this protest. Why. Well it's hard to do two things at once. The focus of the February witness was primarily to raise consciousness and to make a strong statement of where we stood. The focus of the efforts this time is basically educational in nature and it's hard to carry on an educational endeavor while civil disobedience is going on. So we felt that on this particular year that you want to educate people of the fact that this train

exists or that it's carrying nuclear weapons or is there a larger message in your education. Well mainly mainly I think to explore what the great white train symbolizes in terms of the nuclear arms race how it affects our lives and why perhaps more citizens of King County might want to be concerned about that. Was it counterproductive earlier with civil disobedience. Well. That's that's a matter of opinion I. I still feel very good about what we did in February and I feel that our witness indeed gave the passage of the white train the kind of publicity that has long been lacking in this area. Welcome back sir thank you. Fewer people will likely disagree with Reverend Pierce concerning the dangers of the nuclear arms race. There are those however who will take issue with the way the group has protested the arms race. One of the takes issue is Ralph Smeed a Caldwell businessman a newspaper columnist and a leader of the group the Center for market alternatives are called recognition that advocates market not government solutions to

many of our problems. I understand you're planning to attend tonight as well. Why. Well I think. Has been so horribly one sided. I think that it's a kind of an asinine maneuver simply because it's so one sided. I have to hand it to his little band of zealous followers because they're concerned about this thing you know about it didn't concern to my way of thinking is taking leave of their senses. But the US is always on one side to protest. Seems to me to be entirely at the United States in protest for the other side in this is a two way fight as I'm sure even you know having been A Just Russia recently that may give you a new burst of insight there I'd hope so. But it seems to me that the media rushes out the clowns to get out there and protest about this train and my way

of thinking on I think those who matter whether they fly the bombs out here or whether they come on this train. I have to hand it to these people I'm sorry to give them this much credit but I don't see a band of conservatives out there protesting. And I think they should be or maybe some of the rest of us don't call ourselves conservatives exactly ought to be. But thanks to to make this big international arms race and I think the protest ought to be leveled at the other side I think that the butchers and. China in Red China that is. And in Russia ought to be protested against and I thought maybe I'd ought to try to do something so the other side could be heard. Well you heard Reverend first say that the purpose of tonight's gathering was largely educational to educate people about the arms race. Not not an appropriate thing. Well I heard him say that but he was educated one side I wanted to get the other side I think maybe. Well how do we do that.

Well I don't know. Given the way the news media has a short range mentality that they have I suppose some people on the other side have to go out here and make idiots of themselves in order to get the attention of people like yourself and other TV media and frankly I think that the coverage of these things like defense father Pierce and his little band but I can't really fault him except that they tell one side only you know and I think in that sense I think it's I think it's an unfortunate thing but how do we make the decide for for peace newsworthy. People other than father Pearson and his group I think haven't done a very good job and so I think they've been trying to somebody. Do you do you take issue with the civil obviously I would assume that you take issue with the civil disobedience that they engaged in in February. Well if you mean that I take issue because they break the law. I don't know why. Seems to me much ado about nothing. You know I'd sooner that

father Piers fancies himself something of a protester in favor of people that take minority positions. But you see if he were really consistent about that he'd be out there demonstrating sitting on the railroad track or the highway someplace for George Hansen and some of the people that really smell a police state and I think that's what they should be if he were honest I think if you press him that he is not sure well I won't press him in just a second let me ask you one final thing if I understand your argument is basically that such demonstrations would be alright if the demonstrations were also leveled against the other major user or possessor of nuclear weapons in this country in this world. That to be a that would be a help but that's not really what I think the idea of the thing is not about ideas we go around the world and the Russians act and we react and I think that we have to be trying to sell ideas but we don't get my respect. I think the non liberals in this country. I've been behind the door here for too long and I'm trying to get this on an idea basis so I think that to

for example Karl Marx did a lot of promising and about the only one thing to learn anything from him is the US politicians and they've promised to butt out of Mitt didn't promise anything but he delivered what Karl Marx only promised. And I'd like to get it on that basis and this this arms race thing. I think anybody that you'd ask in a thoughtful person would agree it's insane but what do you do when somebody comes at you with a smoking gun. The aggressiveness of the Russian Chinese butchers I think is well known to the millions of people they've slaughtered because of their dissenters and fortunately I'm taking the death of father Pierston dissent in this country not be shot. Well let me go back to Father person let's look. What do you want a couple of these points. I think I'm under understanding Mr. Sneed to say that you're too one sided in your protest. Well at one level I think that's a fair criticism. After all peace will only come if the people involved make serious

steps towards that. But the problem it seems to me with Americans is that we tend to focus in on the aggressiveness of the enemy and not see how our own actions may be interpreted as being aggressive by others. The deployment for example of the cruise missiles in Europe is comparable to the way we saw the missiles in Cuba in the 60s. The Russians see those cruise and Pershing missiles in the same way and feel as threatened as we did in the 60s with the missiles in Cuba. And part of the work for peace and this course is part of the Christian tradition is to see the error of your own ways first before you try and correct your neighbor. Now that's not to say that we should take steps that will put us at risk with our enemies but it is to recognize that while maintaining our security there are some independent initiatives that could be undertaken that might lessen the danger

somewhat. So I think by the nature of your protest it has to be YOU LOT of all that has to be directed toward the political process in this country right. Indeed it is. I say that's true but it's even more significant than that. The Trident missile is a first strike weapon and therefore inherently destabilizing and therefore these particular bombs on this particular train headed for the Trident missile base in Washington is very significant because of its first strike first strike capability and the dangers that proposal poses to determines which made it. Well it's interesting that people of the Pierce's persuasion tend to encourage people in my opinion to worship government. Problem solving and that's what this missile thing is government problem solving. How so. Well all of them.

Private people aren't manufacturing missiles or government manufactured missiles and I think that what they ought to do we ought to be selling ideas and what have you heard of the US government selling ideas and when if they did have a good idea which I doubt it wouldn't be newsworthy to you fellows. How do you make that news where the father Piers knows how to make news and that seems to be attractive to you since we're here you know about that. That's where we agree I would much rather see us trying to sell ideas and selling weapons and manufacturing weapons to try and bring security I think ideas would be far more effective. Well maybe you wouldn't push Goodnight is making waves. What about Mr. just finally about Mr. Smith's point that too much attention has been given your relative to your size and the message that you carry too much attention by people like me for example. Well I I've been surprised at the extensive media coverage on this and yet obviously you set out to encourage coverage. Yes that's true but the extent of it I think was. Caught us even by

surprise. And yet I find that people are indeed interested in what's going on and it's not something that the media has manufactured but indeed this is an issue that seems to touch people all across the country was even written up in People magazine and what better proof of you know some kind of thing catching on than being a People magazine. It's that kind of phenomenon that seems to be at work here. Welcome back. Thank you. At least two Canyon County legislative candidates will face each other on the ballot in November a plan to show up at the vigil tonight. Jerry Sloan a Republican from Nampa who will play for State Senator Charlie Riley of Napa in November is the Democratic candidate. Both will attend tonight. Senator Reilly why. Well primarily because a group of people asked that elected officials come to this education session this vigil. And I think that it's appropriate that as an elected state senator to go at their request.

Do you expect to learn something or say something or bring some message. I hope to learn something and I've been asked to say something. And so I would just like to better understand some of the concepts and the ideas which they are discussing as well as expressed some of my own ideas. What's your reason for going. Well primarily because I had a very kind invitation. I'm in a position I think where I can't refuse the opportunity to work with all groups of people all factions all ideals. It's time for me to make my views known and make my stand very obvious to me and I look forward to the opportunity to be there tonight and present a statement also. Well let me just ask you Do you agree with what Reverend are trying to do. No not really high. I really don't agree with it as a matter of fact I my first reaction when I heard the train was coming through Isn't it too bad that a railroad train

doesn't feel now that it can pass safely or or the city of Nampa. I think that's unfortunate. There are jobs in Nampa with railroaders being a major concern and I'm sure this affects the jobs of some of our people there and and it just kind of upsets me now that the railroad doesn't really feel like it's safe to come through now but they have to go through northern Idaho. How do you feel about whatever the person is grouper trying to do. Well what he says they are trying to do is to have a discussion about the nuclear issue. And as Mr. Sneed said he would be there and hope to have a balanced discussion about it. I think that's very appropriate to have a discussion about it and hopefully people will better understand the complexity. How do you feel about the fact that apparently these demonstrations in February are going to prevent a train from going through. Canyon County. Well certainly that train going through Canyon County places can you county at a certain degree of risk you are

carrying some weapons which certainly if there could be an accident which is probably what will happen at some point in this entire nuclear insanity that we're placing people at risk and I think that that it is appropriate for the community people to express a feeling and a thought and this is what they have done and people are hearing it. Mr. Thorpe Well of course we're told that there is no risk involved but I'd have to agree with Senator dryly that probably is a possibility but I don't think it's a very strong possibility that anything like that would happen. I I just feel like that we've got to have an open shot for the government in their efforts to strengthen our defenses so that we can deter. Anyone from from attacking our shores or at least to discourage them should have the opportunity to move their arsenal

wherever they want to move it. I strongly believe that we have a smart man in this country. I put my name on the ballot in favor of President Reagan four years ago and I still feel very strongly that he's doing a good job for our nation and and I support him and those who work with him in the strength and defense of this nation. If they feel like that they can't safely bring the tritone through Napa. That really upsets me quite a bit. So I think that we need to look at the difference between trends and fads. I think you would say Michael Jackson's a fan. It's something that's imposed from the top down. What we are experiencing throughout the entire world I think is a significant trend where people from grassroots are becoming very concerned about something and like all trends that when that grows and grows and more people understand the issue then the people at the top will get the message. And I think it is

appropriate for people to become more enlightened about this issue. We see it happening not only throughout the entire United States but throughout the entire world. And I think that that's a positive measure. What I just asked one of the gentlemen if I that it will open it up again you heard the discussion on this side of the table about this the protest being too one sided directed only against the government in this country and its policies from Senator. Oh I don't know that it's a matter of being one sided or not they have better articulated their position in opposition to the nuclear issues than the other side has articulated and as Mr. Sneed says the responsibility is with the other side whatever that is to express their opinions and therefore I think it's appropriate that locally elected people would try to understand that. MR. Right. I think it's definitely one sided. There isn't any question about that and I agree with with MS just made really the one side is going

through all this only to get the attention of the news media because that's the thing that the news media seems to happen. They would always they can always count on their being reporters and television cameras and whatever else out there on the site to get their story across and their story is pretty one sided. Now. Maybe on same time finding myself or being on the other side not being vocal tonight I intend to make a statement of my feelings on this and and again appreciate the opportunity. Never in person should we expect this sort of. Absolutely sure. And in fact it's somewhat. Disappointing in a way that the dialogue hasn't happened before now but it's I think a sign of growing maturity and concern that the dialogue can begin and hopefully continue tonight. And perhaps the media attention and the white train itself helps make that happen.

I write a column for the press Tribune each week I've been writing about this issue now for four years. But the white trainers help bring it together in a way that nothing else seemed to do that and I feel that the dialogue is important and what makes the dialogue work is the willingness to listen really hard to each other. Sometimes I feel the arguments go across like this. So I want to make a point and someone else makes another point that really doesn't get engaged in them. I would hope that one of the issues tonight we'll hear discussed is the question of first strike and why the United States seems unwilling to go on record as saying we will never be the first to use nuclear weapons. Now I know the conservatives will say well you know the Russians often make a similar commitment before we do in course we come back and say well they already have and then they say well you can't believe them and there you are but I think

that's the kind of dialogue I hope we like it and you will. Well I want to say something else before you ok get to that. I don't want to overlook saying I appreciate the opportunity here to press a few thoughts in a terribly brief time. Mark appreciate that. And I don't want to your viewers to think that at least in my case that I think it's so bad that you people fall all over yourselves one that comes out with these protesters because just ain't all bad. At least there's just much good about it at least the news media is not out distorting the facts on some other important issue. So why there is some good government right. Well I say that part in jest that I will also say it partly in truth in it that talks about the fresh strike weapon. And that's a crock. You got anything. I don't have a weapon is going to happen is going to somebody what's the difference between a first strike and second strike. I won't be any second strike anyway you'll get the first strike and by the winds of

war if you can win a nuclear war I don't know whether you can or not. But the thing that I just have to say that people on my side of the fence I'm not sure exactly what sort of a label to use in this case as I am against both sides but I do think that the people on the let let let let say them non US government protesters like other peers have been shy in particular were the ideas run your you know what your Again $24 I'm suggesting that we can mount a tremendous oftens in this country out of Sadr. Limit government in a free market and let's say capitalism Adam Smith asked me to read a questionnaire that relates to the discussion taking place here it seems today. However if you believe that these weapons are the worst thing in the world right now how do you protest those effectively without doing the kinds of things that every person is good for doing. How do you balance the protest I guess you're saying it's too one

sided how I do root in a protest against these weapons that covers all the bases that you'd like to see covered. Well I think you're asking the wrong from I should have somebody in the news media to ask why is it so newsworthy. To my way of thinking it's not all that newsworthy. But I have to agree with Matt I have to agree. Against my better judgment but it is the I have to agree that the protests the white thing has focused the thing a little bit even if the news media gets too far out on what I'm trying to say is that I think that it's inconsistent. For the bears and people of his persuasion to push government problem solving all the time for everything the taxes for poverty and for everything and then not expect people to follow along and think the government has to solve this thing in the military sense true I think it's terribly inconsistent and I would suggest that the way to overcome that is to get off of this this kick of and I have to agree that not in this case of

burning armaments to sell that I don't know. I don't think it's a matter of of the news media playing up to the issue unduly. Certainly as I talk with people in Canyon County people I'm very concerned about this issue. I go into classrooms and it's one of the foremost issues on the minds of young children. I talk with with young parents who have children who will be going off to military. They're extremely concerned about this. I think that when we look at the polls polls taken by Representative Craig as well as Christian Science Monitor polls and Gallup polls the American people and the people in Idaho are deeply concerned about this issue. I think it is appropriate to have an exchange of ideas. And if the media so chooses to cover it then that is their business but I don't think that we should criticize the media for covering an issue which is of a tremendous amount of concern to the public. Terry if you believe in a dialogue I'm going to die out of this one aside the media can't see anything except the two liberals who disagree I think.

I mean where are the conservatives. Why don't the conservatives come out and with another point of view. It's very hard to. Yeah I mean I just let me speak from personal feeling it's very hard as you know in Nampa to find a conservative that you can dialogue with when the sharp disagreement Usually they want and I find that very frustrating very hard and I value your friendship so much because you and I do disagree on so much and yet we're friends. But to my experience that's the exception. And one of the tragedies in this and so many other issues is people are divided in different camps and they don't talk to one another and that's the joy of being a priest because you have all of those people in your congregation on Sunday morning. Well in defense of the conservative there's 10 seconds. Well one of the Reagan brothers some are more cautious because you are going to write nonsense. Well I. Think if you want to hear me. Go to the railroad tracks at 8 o'clock tonight

across the river versus just made with thank you for being with us. Riley looking for thank you. That's our time for tonight will be back tomorrow. I'm Mark Johnson. Funding for idle reports is provided by the Friends of 10 and 12. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by a grant from the laurel Moore coming him foundation. Who should pay the medical bills of those people who cannot afford to pay themselves. Should you as a taxpayer and state supreme court made an important ruling on that issue last week and it's changed the rules about the longstanding issue of indigent medical care costs. I Mark

Johnson tomorrow night and I don't reports will look at that story.