Up Close with Cathy Unruh; Dr. Crew

Oh. The. Home was a special presentation of w. we do YOU Tampa St. Petersburg Sarasota. What inspires you to do more to be more. Next on up close meet Dr. Spencer Crew a man who keeps on giving to his community and country by working to generate enthusiasm and energy for history. Welcome to up close I'm Cathy Andrea history is what tells us who we are and where we come from. But many of us don't ever take the time to study our pasts and backgrounds and what makes us us. Well Dr. Spencer Crew president of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati Ohio is here to inspire us to learn more about our history Welcome Dr. Crowe. Thank you glad to be here. Love for a long time. You have a

bachelor a master's degree a doctorate all in history correct. So you've loved it for your whole life. I very much have. It's just sort of been a part of who I am and I've been lucky enough to be able to pursue it as a career. You're telling me that in high school your eyes were really opened when you had a great history. Yeah I had a terrific history teacher who really explained history more than just events and people but more about how you understand the flow of activities. And it's really exciting way to understand history that way rather than memorizing dates. Let's talk about your past where you came from. What's your history. Well I was tell people I was born in upstate New York in Poughkeepsie New York and I left there at the age of six months and moved to Cleveland Ohio and spent most of my life including Ohio through high school. And went off to college at Brown University where I had a bachelor's degree in history and then went on to graduate school at Rutgers. We were there for quite a while in New Jersey and from there went to teach in the University of Maryland system as a history

teacher that had the opportunity to go for a one year leave of absence to work at the National Museum of American history at the Smithsonian. And 21 years later I was still there and then had the opportunity to go to Cincinnati to help develop this brand new institution called the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. We're going to talk about all of that but let's talk. Back at the beginning did that little boy know his family's history did he long to know his own personal history a lot of us go through life and never think about these things was it natural to you. No not really I think what really sparked my interest in history was the interest my own family had in what they do in the weekends we would actually get in the car and drive around the state of Ohio go to historic sites I guess maybe my parents like that or something like that and I think that sort of captured for me an interest in history as they go to these places and wonder Who are the people that live there with their lives like it would have been like for me to be in that space and I think that helped to spur an interest in history that was followed up by some readings that I did as a youngster to read a lot of the historical biographies for you know the presidents and historical figures I think that helped as well.

And you have taught both African-American History and American history university of Maryland. A lot of those courses I would imagine are required in the students have to take them. What do you do to make them see that this is really exciting stuff and get them interested. I think what makes history fun is that if you think of it as stories and stories about interesting people and understanding their lives and the choices they have and the challenges that are in their lives it makes a connection to the students so they can see them in a different fashion as opposed to a person from long ago for whom they wouldn't care anything about what they're doing or what's happening in their own era. Is there a particular person that you connected with. That way well if you ask me if I have a favorite historical figure I do need study to voice who I think is probably one of the great intellectuals of this country who was a historian himself and really did a wonderful analysis of understanding the role of African-Americans in the history of the United States and speaking about that. But also he's an activist very much involved in trying to create change he was there when the first members of the

NWC. So after teaching college you went to work for the Smithsonian Institution. Tell us about that experience. How did you how did you get there in the first place. What was way I think life is about having friends to help you make connections and I had a very good friend. They had a new director to come to the National Museum of American history. His name was Roger Kennedy come there. To help bring the museum into a new era. And he was looking to hire brand new Ph Ds to be a part of the staff there and he interviewed a friend of mine who was not a Brennan Ph Ds who didn't want the job but thought it would be a good opportunity for me and introduced me to him. I interviewed it was successful so I said win fair for one year and wound up staying for more than 20. You liked it. I did I did as a way of talking about history with a much bigger audience than you would have in the classroom at the American History Museum in a bad year they have maybe five million visitors. So is it a large group of people to really share history with in an interesting way.

And that would sort of be the epitome of that career if you want to be a museum curator about history doesn't get better than the Smithsonian that much better no you know that's the place to go. What's involved in being the curator. Well I think the curator the key thing is one to be able to do the research in the history and understand the facts that go with it and understand the connections that are taking place but also the earth as a curate of the other issue is the question of the materials that you use to present to the public I think a historian in a university uses words very much but as a curator in a museum. Words are part of it but the other important part of the objects and the artifacts that help tell the story make that connection between the present the past. One of your biggest civets there was untitled field to factory that was back in 1987 I guess but it focused on a particular particular period in African-American history where blacks migrated to the north and the years were 1959 1040. Yes that's correct. Yes generally yes the time. Why then. What do they do why did it happen. Well what was happening is that you had the start of World War 1 and you

began to have a lot of people who are working in factories especially European workers and white workers who were being siphoned off to join the war effort. And so there's a real dramatic need for workers in factories in the north in particular until they begin looking for a source of labor and they turn more and more to African Americans who are working on farms in the south and begin to recruit them in occurs in the coming north. And what happens is there's a huge shift in the African-American population from Southern rural areas to southern cities into northern cities that really changes the dynamic of African-American life in the population centers in this country from rural areas to urban areas and so it's a big change in terms of where African-Americans are located but also how our nation is changing as it becomes more more urban rather than a real nation. And I would suppose a lot of African-Americans stayed in the south after abolition for economic purposes they didn't probably even know how to get to the north if they had wanted to or had the means.

Well well actually it's a little more complicated than that I think what really happens is that after the civil war there it is. A real effort to keep African-Americans tied to the land because that is really an important labor source. And so what happens is that as people are trying to find a way to earn a living and to take care of themselves one there's not that broad a set of opportunities in the northen or the industries hasn't taken off the same degree. So most people are still farmers and so many people remain on the land in the south working that land. But the systems that are set up of sharecropping and other things we tie them to the land in ways that make it very difficult to get away. And as a result people just remain close to where they were enslaved or move around to other places where they do wind up as farm workers. And why is getting the understanding about evolution out there. Why is that important in your view. Well I think it's important because it does indicate a change in this nation in general as we go change from being a rural nation to an urban nation and what does it mean in terms of how cities operate how do they respond to newcomers coming to that city

and how do African-Americans lives in this nation change dramatically as a consequence I think it really helps them in terms of having impact on the politics impact on the economy. But also new opportunities that they didn't have before. Politics did an exhibition of American presidents why that is but Sunny what did you want to bring out and show us that we didn't already know about that. Well I think it was one showing off all the wonderful artifacts of material culture that the Smithsonian had related to the lives of those individuals. We also want to do it because it was the time of the election the election for the year 2000 and we were trying to do something similar to help celebrate that election at the year 2000. The other part was that we had a really very popular exhibition there called the First Ladies and that was probably the most popular exhibition at the American History Museum of the time we thought well we have one of the first ladies who would make sense to have one of the presidents and what we're trying to do is just give people some insights into the lives of those individuals and where they are normal like we are and where there are stresses and pressures they get that other people don't have. So what sorts of

things to put in the exhibit to show us that oh some very neat things that have been tucked away we had the top hat that Abraham Lincoln wore while he was the president. We had we found in the collection timbers that were burned on the ends and we think they were burned when the White House was burned back when the 1812 when the British burned Washington D.C. We had the pajamas Harry Truman when he was there. I think the cape of FDR and when he was in the White House just a wide number of things the cabinet in which the Watergate materials were located so it's just one of these interesting parts of history that when you share them with people they have a ha moment. That's what that was like and I make a connection to it. So you have all these things on hand as you go and prepare the exhibit and then do you go elsewhere and collect additional things at the Smithsonian not that much. Yes and I know we have plenty of material there and in fact doing the show is a chance to take a lot of things out of the collections and out of storage that hadn't had a chance to be shown

before in fact mostly what we did to create the exhibition was to go back and explore in the collections to see what was there that maybe hadn't been put before the public before to help tell the interesting story so there wasn't much of a need to go look in other places that might sort of give a historian chills to walk back in the storage closet and there's Lincoln's top Truman. It's absolutely denies it actually does and that's why a lot of work in there so much because you could almost have a tangible connection to the history and to the people who lived in that area there and sort of feel what they were feeling and think about what their lives were like. You were instrumental in the preservation of the flag that inspired Star Spangled Banner. Yes yes that was an exciting thing for us to do the Star-Spangled Banner had been at the Smithsonian since the turn of the century and had been in public view for a long time in the Museum of American history is to sort of open back in the 1960s I think and what we realized was that with all the people coming into the building you were getting a lot of smoke and other things that was permeating the flag when you really need to figure out a way to take better care of it so we

made the decision it was that now was the time and to really think through how you go through the process of removing that it was a big wall and a large hallway removing that to put it into a place for conservation than hiring to the best conservation people around to come in and really help us look at it and think what we needed to do to make sure it would last for another 200 years. So what did you do. Well we did a lot of analysis there was backing and supporting that that had been done back around the turn of the century. That was the state of the art conservation at that time. But what we found out was really not helping the flacks we took the backing off did a lot of analysis of the dyes that were in it and the fibers that were used in it try to understand what kinds of things they did to make the colors we found out for example the red. Came from beetles that they had crushed and to get the red color. And after doing that came up with an idea for how to best preserve it today. And they're actually still working on they haven't quite finished yet but the excitement is that it's nearly done and the hope is that the building is close presently but when they reopen it they'll be able to put the flag back on display in a much better city

for the hundreds of thousands of people that go through there every here. How do you hope that that you've inspired them. I hope that during my time there is both as a curator but also as the director of that museum that what we were able to do is to include the histories of a wide variety of people into the stories that are told there that was very much more narrow in terms of the interpretation prior to that and I think what we've been able to do is to include the stories of a lot of different people African-Americans of Latinos by Native Americans of women of workers of people who hadn't had a chance to have their stories told. And if people see that as an important contribution I think that that would be I think I'd feel very good about. You were named a director 1994 is that correct yes. Did that make you both the youngest director and the first African-American ever at the Smithsonian. They tell me yes. Yes and we made a directive to this time. Oh no I've left the Smithsonian I left the Smithsonian in 2000 and won. But so you don't continue being a director when you're gone you know you're emeritus. OK. You're doing it

without merit is the example you get to go back and participate at all or just periodical I think the person who succeeded you doesn't need the director hanging around so much right now to go back to find your next job. Yes let him do his job. All right let's move on to your next job. Cincinnati Ohio the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center. Yes I went there in 2001. Went there because I was excited about the mission. I was excited about the chance to be a part of a brand new institution just beginning to get started to help shape it to help shape the culture there but also to think about the exhibitions and the way we're going to present history in a brand new setting in a brand new place and that was a really intriguing set of challenges to think about and to get engaged with. So why do you think this was needed at this particular museum. Well for mercy me I thought it was interesting because there was a place that really wanted to talk about some key issues in this country's conversations and it's really around the issues of race is also around the issues of diversity. But more importantly about how do we talk about those things and how

do we get people from different backgrounds to connect to converse and to think about how we use diversity as a real plus as a nation and as a country as opposed to seeing it as a series of isolated groups who are talking to each other and in some ways fear each other. So how do we bring ourselves together rather have to have this done. Now unlike the Smithsonian where you could walk in the storage room and you had all these artifacts waiting to go right you helped to build this from the ground up. Where did you get here. Aren't serial sex materials whatever you're using from a variety of places. Part of them came from the Smithsonian we were able to go back and talk to them and get some things on loan. It was also talking to other museums around the country who might have materials to loan us materials. I think the hope was that we could get people to loan us things initially and that as time went on we'd be able to find things that we could actually keep ourselves and make a part of the permanent holdings of the Freedom Center. So what sorts of things are there. Well I think the most important artifact we have is the slave pen and what the slave pin is is that when the slave trade was stopped from

Africa and there was a need for labor just as cotton was becoming more important taking off as a crop in the United States they had to have a system of transporting and enslaved individuals who had been in places like Virginia and North and South Carolina to the new lands that are opening up in Mississippi Louisiana and Alabama places like that. And this system of transport individuals was called the internal slave trade. Now to make this happen you had to have places where you could either gather individuals before you took them south or kept them overnight as you were transporting them further south. And these slave pens these buildings were created all across the country is a safe storage of holding areas where slaves individuals who were being transported could be kept overnight or for a long period of time until the person who is doing the trading thought he had enough individuals to make a profit. Well there were probably hundreds of those kind of billions in the country during the 19th century. But most of them disappeared. We were able to find one about 40 miles southeast of Cincinnati and took it

apart. I did about three years worth of research on the back row of that building and the person who owned it then brought it to the Freedom Center reassembled it is two stories high and are able to tell the story of that building but also the story of the internal slave trade and what happened to those individuals who passed through that building being taken from places like Kentucky and Virginia and sent further south to brand new lives and it's just a very powerful artifact and a very powerful storm I can feel it even as you tell me about it and I'm imagining I'm remembering being at the Holocaust Museum guard sample yes. And you get down there and people are crying. It is totally silent. Yeah. What's it like at the Freedom Center do you have the same sorts of reactions or is there anger. While I think we have a gamut of experiences there I think like it's a slave pen. You have very emotional personal connection that people make and I think you do see people in tears or in a very thoughtful pause in that space and we have that happen in different places in the building. But I think part of what we're also trying to do is to encourage

people to think about the possibilities that are in front of them in terms of the choices they can make and the difference they can make in society. The argument in thinking about the Freedom Center and looking at the Underground Railroad as a focal point is that what you learn from the Underground Railroad is that a variety of people sort of working in collaboration to support freedom can make a difference can change the way the society thinks about that idea change the way society thinks about issues of color and race and move it in a direction that's much more positive. And what we recognize is that that continues to be a challenge for us today. And we're getting people to think about what can I do what steps can I make that might allow me to make a difference in the world of which I'm a part. So I think that since challenge but also the sense of hope is an important part of the story there as well so we hope that people leave somber thoughtful new ideas new thoughts sort of convey to them but also a sense of the possible and a sense of hope and an ability that while these things

around us are challenging we can make choices we can do things that make a difference. Are most of your visitors African-American and are white What's the percentage. It's about 60 40 and it's interesting because I have a I work with John Pepper who is the CEO and the president there we were very closely together. It is interesting when each of us is asked that question he'll say 60 40 he thinks the problem are primarily white and also 64 I think is primarily African-American which says it's a really wonderful right mix that we have a good sort of middle ground group you know people probably the most diverse meeting place I think in Cincinnati and probably one of the Mersey most diverse audiences I've seen in museums cultural centers around the country. I asked the question because if you talk about well the slave pen I never knew they existed. Yeah. And I would think that white people could learn a whole lot the things that we've never thought about. You know we got to listen to race right. There's a lot to be learned here. And you don't just focus on the past there's And you also talk about the slavery that continues in the

world today. We absolutely do have an exhibit right now called in this invisible Amory today. Yes. What does that tell us. Well I think what it says is that there continue to be circumstances in this country as well as around the world where people are forced into labor against their will. And that we sometimes tend to forget about that and it's not the top of the mind and it's not always directly in front of you but it continues to exist. So the idea of the exhibition is to begin to illustrate those instances that exist around the world to look at the kind of products that they produce and to think well are there again choices I can make actions I can take to help impact those people's lives that may be for the better and to make it more difficult for people like them to be enslaved to what countries and societies are portrayed in that way. I think we talk about the United States we talk about India I think we talk about some place in this Southeast Asia and also in Europe. You talk about slavery today in the United States. Yes. Tell us that.

Well for example one person that I illustrated there is a woman who was brought over to be a household worker against her will and she's been held in that position for a long long time so for a lot of abuse and finally escape. And if you want to find slavery as forced labor against your will that you wouldn't do otherwise. She very clearly clipped instead that model. And I think part of the idea is to remind people that it's not just in faraway places where this exists but it's also here in the United States as well and we need to be aware of that and think about those things. Why did you pick Cincinnati as the location for this museum. A couple of reasons one is if you look at the history of the Underground Railroad there are three major routes that people followed and one of the major routes was through Cincinnati and through Ohio Ohio had more entitling had more abolitionist societies in it than any other state except for Massachusetts and New York. So you have a very active anti-slavery population there and a lot of people to escaping to freedom come to the city of Cincinnati on the Ohio River. So the history is very strong in that area. The other part is you had people in the community who are committed

to the idea who wanted to create this entity and really did the work to make it happen. Well talk about the abolitionist societies an underground railroad Do you remember hearing about that as a child. But there's Harriet Tubman the people that we think of did you know about that as a child little bit I know a lot more now than I did then but certainly Harriet Tubman is a name that comes become very familiar but there are so many other people that I've learned about over the last five years that makes this an amazing story to learn because there are these people with remarkable courage. Who decided despite what the last say would say if you help someone escaping you can be thrown in jail. You can be fined if you choose to escape. I mean the penultimate penalty is death. So you have these very courageous individuals who believe that freedom is an important commodity something that they will do whatever is necessary to keep it alive and well. And you're struck by their courage and their passion their commitment to those things and I think that's a really wonderful powerful story. And you've mentioned a couple times the gall of saying to today's citizens

Here's what you can learn nice what you can do what he did to me. Well I think for example looking at our invisible show you begin to look at places that make sure that their products that they carry are fair trade are produced by people who are not caught in that situation and what we don't suggest is boycotting but it is let's find the places that do that and support them in the work that they do or look for products that are created for clear that they were produced in not slave labor settings where the things we try to do in our in our shop in the freedom centers to make sure the materials that we have there have come through a process where we're pretty sure the people were not in that kind of circumstance and I think we can all just have that kind of. Thought process as we're making decisions about what we buy and where we buy they can have a real impact as well as supporting There are a whole bevy of non-government organizations in this country who are very active in places around the world trying to help those who are caught in these situations and they can use support.

There's no doubt about that and get active and and raise your consumer consciousness a little bit less here in the Bay Area to speak at the be more awards. Yes which is a celebration of some of those nonprofit organizations absolutely great working with Central Florida. What do you say to the volunteers and the folks who work at those organizations. I say first of all you have my absolute admiration I think the work that people do in those nonprofit organizations giving their own time of their own money in their own passion is just inspiring. And I would say to them to keep up the work that you're doing that you're doing a very important service for all of us and we should really appreciate the things that you're offering in the work that you do. And now you meet somebody who says oh history I'm sorry I it's just so long ago I was too busy with my life today. What is one thing you would say to anyone to invoke their interest in history. I say what do you know about your grandparents. What do you know about your great grandparents. Because that's the history that's your history. If you don't know that you don't know much about yourself do you start a lot of family trees I imagine. I hope so I hope so and when I think we have the Freedom Center is a family search center where people can come and do extensive research on their family

trees. But I think that's history in the you know the simplest level is your own family history and understand that connection. And I think we all had that a moment or seen a photograph of someone we'd heard about but didn't know before. And the impact it has on you to see that person and know more about them is tremendous. And I think that's the power of history. We get to know more about those who live in the past has a better insight into ourselves the possibilities. It absolutely does. Thank you so much for joining us we appreciate it. Thank you I had a good time. Thanks. For more information on the website freedom org and thank you for joining me today. Think.

If. Oh. As part of WTU salute to black history on The Next up close. Meet noted historian Dr. Spencer Crew president of the National Underground Railroad Freedom Center in Cincinnati. He'll share with us his passion for African-American History and American history. And how sharing the past is his every day.