Interview with Michael Quinn on "Politics and Poker" Album

Politics and poker. Can Start share anything. Thanks Rob see you say. Oh my. No matter what. I'm saying some things sound right where that that's me. Thanks. OK. Can you take a seat. Oh yes because usually it's not up to. What you say you want to be don't you. Oh nothing too much on my plate the plate over. Going to supplement the thing you're going. To find.

Ways. Around it but it's not chatty and we all read one thing is clear. We got a candidate for Congress this year. My luck is. Possible strace possible flushing saddlebag hollowed out some names we can use for some qualified Republican who is willing to lose. We should make Jack Riley the guy which you think Jack or Jack won. I say neither one. I never even battle.

I see. When you've got a. Band of. Fine thanks and oh my take. Send some of them find God showing us what she is from D.C. Times piece a lot of play like Tibet when it was all right. Now follows politics all poker which is more important. That a little true. Raise your fine now close. But your money where your addled mind will knock it off and let's get this done. Michael Brown you're saying that it's I'm sorry to run like is out. I'm afraid he just walking south. Nobody likes a candidate. It was a

name they can't spell. How about Dave Davies still writes about Walt died last night. Frank George. Frank. Said is that George is 23. That's. Six seven poll thinks that poll that's the goal. Take Center poll. Yes because usually you can start that. Politics and poker from the musical Fiorello sung by Howard to Silva and the ward heelers on a monitor

recording bearing the name politics and poker. We have one of the ward heelers with us. Incidentally the group in addition to our DeSilva includes Del horseman Julian Patrick and Michael Quinn. And it's the letter of the award haters. Michael Quinn that we have visiting with us to discuss politics and poker. Michael or five or six years back I had occasion I would be in a conversation all of half a dozen people or so with the late Dr. Horace English she was a famous child psychologist psychologist in general and noticing the subjects which came up in conversation I just blurted out to him and I asked him I said as a doctor. Why is it in the civilized society. There are three subjects which you should not bring up sex religion and politics. When he thought for about three quarters of a second he says well because

those are the most important things in human life. Well said you have become. Well first of all the word here is where did they originate. Is that a temporary group I assume they're not there. That's not a good thing. Fred that was a temporary group solely for those record politics and poker. It stemmed from the Broadway musical as a prize winning musical Fierro and we were known as a group as the ward heelers in that particular production. And therefore you kept that name for this particular recording. That's right we get that day. You have Grossman and numerous musicals. The music is operatic and television productions and well let's get into that a little later. Let's remind some listeners that you're in that quite distinguished company Mr. Julian Patrick is now one of the leading lights in American American operatic scene. That's right he had just received great acclamation

Fara. Mice and man it and of course our distillery is now one of the big names in the American theater. We're going to be hearing examples from this album this monitor recording but they want it all in the hollow where you're not. No none of them were unfair at all excepting for these obvious Broadway show tunes politics and poker and perhaps later the little tin box with the success of the show. Some of us want Heelers decided well this is a presidential election year. It was 1960. Why not make hay of the fact that we've won this prize and the fact we were involved in a political show and come up with a record of bona fide presidential election songs dating as far back as we could possibly find them. So we were all very much enthused about it and it felt that I was appointed the research man the archivist to dig out wherever

the songs might be found. Id been a folklorist up in that time. No not not really although I'd always like to borrow I'd always like to have a great respect for librarians and archivists and people who do research because they're the kind of you continually interested in searching out little known or odd facts and I kind of like that notion why I don't know. What did you find in the political songs. More material or less material than you imagined you'd find. I thought I'd find more frankly than I did find. And over a period of six months we came up with. I say we some of the other lads did some research too but I dug up most of them and I think in any event we you know we didn't have more than 20 or 25. To which to choose from. And the interesting part for me was to be going into

these places such as The New York Historical Society in the New York Public Library in the Museum of the city of New York and going up into the most attics and crannies of these places and to unearth this stuff and in particular. I remember a Miss Isabella Landauer who had had a collection of New York memorabilia in the top most attic of the New York Historical Society and she was a warm genuine person of 86 years who had her collection and this was her thing this was her occupation and preoccupation. And she was very warm and very happy to put everything and anything at my disposal even she had her lunch with me. I had to ask think well do you imagine the difficulty might have arisen from the fact that political songs are. Inclined to be a little more ephemeral than usual popular songs I mean

comes the election whether success or failure their usefulness is gone. They are finished. Plus the fact that popular music has not been with Michael and permanently recorded form of recordings that did not really come until around the turn of the century. And there was a lot of fascinating political music I'm sure going back beyond that. I think it's really even more stirring in the early days of our country than in the more in the later later days as you say at the turn of the century when recordings came in the first that I wonder if the one that is most historic is the Jefferson and liberty. And that was a kind of a protest against the Alien and Sedition laws that were in force at that time. The night before the reign of to resort its gags

inquisitors was inspired is headsup Hockey's on almost rejoins Yes songs we talk time instead of been me. I joined with Paula and soul and was my first solo and pretty hot stuff. The stream and peace of mind and the small bread which feels like the city rejoice cumbia songs rejoice. Join with heart and soul and voice to the little gold or jingle bells ring in the street I will repeat it slowly along the streets and rejoice along bridges and song live with you

here. Down there. That indeed is a stirring that has that has the ring of military politics it sounds British. What can you tell us about the two and the origin of it. Very little except that it is a traditional I would say a military tradition of British. Well English too and the difference have the same the contents not to mention the catchy musical phrase I'm sure which we could expect of any political group and it was going to

catch on and the song can carry its message. But it seems to me the content the burden of that particular song betrays a genuine feeling for the causes. Yes whereas the politics and poker was a wee bit sarcastic a little bit cynical. Oh yes well I think it was innocent really came around and as we became an old relation and as the political habits of the election and campaigning have became more or more a lot more widespread. I think as as we expanded as a country expanded there were there was a greater. Great a part to be devoted to by those who got there first uncontrollably political scene and I don't know it's part and parcel of all of the American scene Americana is

the way our political scene is unique. It belongs to us. I don't think there's nothing like it anywhere else in the world and I think it's because of the naivete of many of these songs that most of these songs particularly later or later years mirrors I think and I have a tape that Americans have always had and continue to have this day about. About Life and politics and the idea that anyone whether they've gotten off a boat recently or have been around for maybe a couple of centuries can't put a ballot in the box and vote for virtue. That's right. That's not the interest as a good player still persists. And it was with the idea of course that the opposite party is voting for vice at this are quite clear. What is

black and white yes. What did you find in the Civil War era. I notice a song here and titled. Granted granted it's a play on of course your listeners Graham's name. And one of his famous slogans at some siege in the Civil War was we'll fight it out upon this line if it takes all summer. And when it came time for him to campaign for the presidency his songwriter came up with this play on his name and used that famous stirring slogan as his campaign slogan. This is one of your solos in the set. Why did we. Cease from your old school news. Oh it's not the green. Room.

Why don't we. Get. One. Man's near. Us going to see a summer. League ball raw meat ball just for you know when you're just plain wrong. We're sure this long piece Lovaza we're going to get round to marvelous and would you say made the arrangements like I can't help noticing that that has the ring of the Civil War was sort of the military civil war. Drop in clarinet. We had to give it that very full quality and horsemen primarily did the

arrangements. As I say it with a bold and very valuable assistance. The conduct of the record as you can see well whether we were listening to the music get on in history. I know this is a title get on the raft with Taft. That gives us a jump of about 50 years I think should have least 50 years. It might be well to note that William Howard Taft weighed well over 300 pounds. Oh that's right the image you're getting on the raft with tariff screws. She becomes you might be slightly dangerous. But if we listen. This is sung by our DeSilva right guys. Let's call this off. We think. Presidents are no.

Longer worth. Being. Stuck. Up wrong it's not enough for him and his. It seems he has run since washing not for socks like it was legs for God not the rotten Joslin. All right let's get on the show. This from.

Sean. Penn is the bar with and again they are always going to ratings Brian. Yeah the arrangement is really does recapture that music hall atmosphere of what nine hundred and eleven twelve. That's right and I'm going to get to all 50 of the bandstand in the park. Right. Quality you know the same vein that George M. Cohan made an entire career out of that Marge melody. It's interesting to note that many of the songs perhaps some of the best songs are associated with the president who in historical perspective really did not go rattling and ringing in the corridors of history as perhaps our greatest presidents. One of his a significance in that the better the songs the worst thing of course the president to pick a new and Tyler too.

I'm curious to hear this song because that would just be the poetic liberation to pick a new anti that has gone down through history of people who don't know Tyler from Adam's off ox I'm sure you know that phrase. Yes and what is the song like oh well it Harrison was presented as being a log cabin candidate as opposed to Van Buren who was somewhat of the feet. So they say and the idea was to give the folksy notion that the heron was the Paris and was the people's candidate and of course he did win but he died within a month of taking office. So that that went from not all Walt has caused this great commotion motion three through on it is the ball is rolling on. Well typically when talking not too far to become known when talking you know do I make them will be forgotten.

These are used up on the high end with them will be little. Well let them talk about the parts I don't. Subtle side of it will only help to see the balls to become when taught how to fall in love with them will be too little. No he's all used up there will be. That's what I thought you'd say about all of this yes. Has there been a campaign song that you recall. When I asked you how many campaigns can you recall say 10. Now the virus 6 5 or 6 4 5. I mean the recent campaign there was an attempt to get Hello Dolly worked into the campaign the only thing wrong with it wasn't exactly a folk matter they had the composer says absolutely not.

They tried to associate it with candidate not of his choice. Coincidentally I was a member of the original cast of Hello Dolly. Did you think at the time that that might be sort of a campaign melody. Well it's certainly catchy. There was an attempt to use it for one of the cabbage he won. So that may be significant. Well that's. Let's talk personally why you're here. You've done numerous shows besides tell us about some of them reminisce if you will. Well I think fear of that was the what is the standout in my mind and my memory because it it was truly inventive Bock and Harnick the composer and lyricist.

I think we're at the most inventive and witty musically. And with regard to the lyric in the show more so than any of their other shows even though their other shows are excellent for the Fiddler On The Roof is surely a beautiful show but for my ears and for my memory. Farrow is is the. These stand out in musical comedies and truly deserved the appeal as a prize. What did they capture in the whole thing. That you feel is unique something about a man's life and the era that he represented in say American politics. And I think American history in general they are they captured all of that and again I go back to the word naive and say they captured that kind of open eyed naive innocence of people who were involved in politics. It's as though there isn't another world

around the middle of the political scene and the mechanics of politics is because at the end all of their existence and the notion of loyalty to party loyalty to your man is. Stated very succinctly in the songs and in the story line of hero. And not only regard with regard to Vera with regard to the entire scene in New York politics particularly it at that time as I talked to another well I have a warm feeling come over me. Yes reflecting on that show what we went through putting it together from day one. The excitement when we got such rave reviews and then the excitement again where we were awarded the Pulitzer Prize. Well Richard White the New York Post said our DeSilva and his henchmen who were

one of them thinking politics and poker which we've heard and a little tin box are he said well the high point of the evening. Why don't we take a shot right now to listen to the little tin box. Mr. X. May we ask you a question. It's amazing is it not. That's the city. Pays you slightly less than 50 bucks a week. Yet you purchased stuff private yacht. I am positive you are on or must be joking. Any working man can do what I have done. For a month or two I simply gave up smoking. Then I put my extra pennies one by one and 2 0 0 0 books a little box that a little key on. The. Verizon. Thing not orthodox somebody.

Then. Bought up on a little tin box. Sally losing a key on the locks. There is on the right you'll retain a lot soft security and a little tin box. Mr warrior we've been told you don't feel well we know you've lost your voice box we want to know how you manage commerce Mary you make two one for your unknown Rolls-Royce. You're implying and I'm a crook and they say No sir. There is not in my past I cannot find I've been taking the empty bottles to the grocer. Then each single letter I got was put us on a that he comes home with us on page 2 000 was a little

box without a little key on. Glamorous thing on our sled dogs some. Bugs and bumps on the box is a kosher salt spray shops. Or is fully home but shall return one prosperity sandbox. Just to see you run to when you're a fish. Annual incomes rise home yet you can counsel women in the very best Whole towns when you finally explain how soon. I can see your robber doesn't pull his punches. That it looks a trifle fishy I'll admit. But for one whole week I went without my lunches.

And it mounted up the all around our bed by beds. Yet on a bit by bit it's just the. Box to box. Me and he. Is now saying that outside and box. The box the window with food should stop. Saw. The next double speak fact countered. That with his a little too close for comfort as well as this particular session we are in the midst of a political campaign.

We're really not awfully far from political campaigns ever in this country are where there's always one coming or going always somebody you know coming on the scene and that song points out the nasty fact that sometimes we have little bits of smears in our campaign in this country sometimes justified sometimes not. But it is a little uncomfortable. Because the more things change the more they sort of stay the same seems to me a while back we had a dog held up in front of us on camera wouldn't someone was charged with impropriety. And I recall distinctly that the charges were not answered they were avoided. Interesting. Michael Quinn you bear a name that's not entirely unknown in Massachusetts. Why don't we just spill the beans and say why you are visiting us in Amherst on this particular occasion.

I'm here in Amherst on this particular occasion to help my brother Bob Quinn attorney general Robert H Clinton in his attempt to get the nomination from the assembled Democrats Democratic delegates here so that he may run again for the office of attorney general out of prospects look as of now as of now it looks very good. Well then your interest in politics and your involvement in them are not entirely academic or theatrical until I decide how I want to be but I have very personal. I've only been at the taking of this nature. Well there's seriously an intense this is the first time this is my baptism really. What has your research into the infighting have what is your research as and your state work brought to it.

An awareness of the theatricality of conventions and of politics. Perhaps in politics more so than any other endeavor there is more of the theatrical than in any other scheme or scene. And I relate my stage experiences to my activities now and I gather you don't say this in a cynical sense either. Oh no indeed. With regard to putting the best foot forward is what I mean for in behalf of my brother's endeavor and all of the assembled Democrats really. Think the excitement all the politicking is

every bit theatrical. Who would you say the INS or the outs as far as you've studied music an association with that elections at the INS or the outs had the best to lose I think the three outs had the best tunes although it made maybe a tossup. We had Jefferson liberty with Jefferson recently was in Lincoln liberty is in a very heroic barrio for a loser was children's children reform. As you probably recall he won the popular vote but lost in the electoral vote. So that it hit that very Florida area that was written on his behalf went for naught. Her.

Rings and the Rings sun he carries are slow. Oh he. Isn't old. The boy isn't the whole boat coming weeks ago run run by me. When I run a school she brings US troops and we owe it to.

Our Hari basically like any breaks for. Years. See hope it's hard to. Stay with him. Say Woodward

brings her. In this. Then. I said that's a Florida car yes. Well eighteen seventy six that would be the era for that type of music that comes from. I dare say that was hung in parlors and gatherings. Well the market of the more genteel gatherings. I wonder who the leading baritone in New York was at that time he must have been really excited to sing that.

I expect so. But again that's there's the consistent things as you pointed out. Election and election campaigns when the campaigns come up particularly things do get divided divided into black and white and the other sides are obviously criminals or radicals having no shred of virtue in them too. Perhaps in a society this is a good thing to have these purges every once in a while because I know some of the most touching scenes is just to see the campaign headquarters of the loser after the elections Oh it's heartbreaking and it's just gloom and you wonder yeah these people you know the followers the workers have literally gone to an emotional shock and say virtue has lost out. Their heartfelt efforts of God for not takes them.

Well probably several weeks through my jacket recovered recovery not having motional involvement and so that's that's fantastic. That sort of thing gave us you had the feeling that is a constant in the American political scene. Sit your butt involved it historically musically and actually is that still our pattern. It appears that way and it will continue that way in the beauty of our of our kind of democracy is that we could pretty much get up and present whatever Harang we we feel like color on a moment and get up shake the dust off my clothes when we've been run over if your rights and even television notwithstanding that offer still a pattern Let's listen to the one entitled Wilson that's all which are our DeSilva sayings.

This arises quite obviously from World War 1 here. That's right yes. The title is taken from a whiskey slogan like now. Yes it's Wilson that's all is a slogan for a brand of whiskey. I will listen. Let's listen to this. Some soul some soul. Just like. The. Song or. The. Song a street song or the. Next well sung sung. Sung. Not to mention days all over. The legs the tongue is the wrong piece so as the song goes for

the folds bits of coal. He says though it what's he says I think. Drink all of the Monkey King Kong sung that song sung that song. That's the plan. And they're getting whoever is at work that has captured that. World War 2 era.

The little touches of the Original Dixieland Jazz fan that X seeks the truth that amazing both in the inventiveness of the arrangement tradition insisted. Can we close with one of your cell that was from this monitor recording politics and poker songs to get elected by namely Lincoln and liberty. This is. I suppose very good quality with using this on this. Where did you find this thing that I found. Lincoln and liberty in the New York Public Library and the archives there again. The librarians there were most helpful. There was nothing that they wouldn't do for hours to get this thing going and they went into the crannies dusting things off to find and this was among them going to liberty. And the lyric is a very shall I say a topical it's very

topical and to the time so that some of the references are biblical and rather esoteric. But the beauty of them is interesting I think it's a rich warm wonderful. For the George Soros orgy Solberg and so beautiful for their greed for leading a force

for the last song here who should own voice parts. Mark to Market Watch by heart rare America are snoots with a car for the pupil are rare everywhere called to toot their own arm. We have diverse or glorious lolo's last Harshbarger rared large firm who'll be too far away to turn our back. There's Victoria was being called Liberty tools with which Sleep is on there. Elsewhere but not sorry to use any shore for the freedoms we.

Put to two beautiful or four of us hard often hard Gar who was at over three hours prior stronger market for being on time for new cars to dual foreign cars. Well congratulations. That's very moving. Thank you song. It's not hard to tell by that exquisite the traditional melody. Do you think the melody is called The Wild Colonial but I don't want him hops up. It's a tune that just Wellesley's house hunting. Yeah. Melody Yeah and so apt for for that lyric

before we leave. Michael Crane Can we ask you about what your current plans are any shows in the offing on television musicals as of the moment I'm on my sabbatical so to speak from the theater show biz and devoting all of my energies to my brother Bob Quinn's endeavor to become re-elected for attorney general. After that I think that I'll go on the sawdust trail again Saddam's trail which will take you where doing what. Well I haven't made that definite a Priam First things first. After that we'll see. But I am I miss showbusiness it's a very exciting life and endeavor. You mentioned sawdust trail that implies that you're going out into the wild and woolly Midwest where I'm sure many people

here in the East are unaware that out there very strange and unusual and often very fruitful things are going on there are countless little summer theatres where they do experimental work and Broadway trials and things like that have you had much experience in that. You know most recently I performed with a local civic unit in San Bernardino California. They have a very successful civic light opera company where they present three or four light operators Broadway musicals yearly and put on very elaborate and. Well presented productions of these musicals. The one that I appeared in several months ago was milk and honey which was a delight to do I played the starring role opposite

Patricia Morrison. There was a grand lady and find wonderful talented very talented lady. Yes one of the one of the great beauties of the American musical. Absolutely and to her beauty never doesn't diminish. She's as beautiful today as she was when she was the reigning star in Kiss Me Kate some years ago without asking you to make any announcement I was on the American theatrical scene that you probably find unless I missed my guess that every performance Westpac absolutely yes yes packed and this goes on not only in the West Coast but in St. Louis for the Warren Ohio Columbus Ohio Pittsburgh and. People look upon this as part of their standard fare this is their their meet the great new the American musicals. And yet the history of the musical on Broadway even off Broadway doesn't look as bright as those packed houses would indicate

what's what's the story. Well we've entered joy had to have entered into a new form of music in the last several years. There's the problem of of adapting which books and stories to the new music form that is very popular now and that with that would seem to me to be the reason why it is there is that lack of sparkle coming out of Broadway. Now there's a conflict between the form of the story and the form of the music it's the kind of problem of matching them so they'd be appealing and meaningful. Yes but it's still a still an exciting world isn't it. Oh absolutely. It becomes that he is on a rail. I think the excitement of

doing something that is make believe takes you out of your everyday activities is something that everyone within him whether he's a performer or not is looking to do do what we can to bring someone along to the well to bring someone out but also to get out of the every day reality of things which are kind of overwhelming and becoming more and more frightening in the world and I think there's going to be an even greater need for for entertainment and live entertainment more and more the cycle is coming around again to that facet. And it's interesting to conjecture this. This may have been the same impulse that brought them into the theaters in Athens. I believe so yes. I never thought of that but I think you've hit upon it. Well we want to thank you ever so much for visiting with us Mr. Michael Quinn.

And we've only touched on your many talents and your many performances on this program. We have drawn on you for your political observations both the musical and otherwise and particularly from this monitor recording songs to get elected by politics and poker which contain out of the two songs from Fiorello. But songs which you've now got from American history being one of the ward heelers Michael Grimm it was heard with the Del horseman and Julian Patrick and Howard Desilva. We can of course recommend this monitor recording very highly. We want to thank you again. Michael quick. Thank you Fred. It's a pleasure to be here.