The Inner Core; Conversations from the Inner Core; Business owner, Simmie Doss

Conversations from the inner core a continuing series of programs recorded in north central Milwaukee. A few weeks ago Ralph Johnson talked with Mr. Simmie Doss the proprietor of Leroy's jewelry shop on Titania Avenue in Milwaukee's inner core. I sat in Mr. Dawson's store and Ralph asked him how he got started in the jewelry business where I was through an illness. I had to spend a year out Mirabelle sanatorium. Unable to do manual labor anymore I. Finished a quo course and watchmaking walk evocation as quick as I got in the watch preparing and making a business. That's right and how did you go from there to become the proprietor of a jewelry store. Well I set up a watch repair shop in my own. Consequently after business they increased a little bit I moved it onto the street. And then finally. I was fortunate enough to. Buy. A jewelry store out lock stock and barrel. Then we moved it all store up here

on tight Oh yeah. You. And you I believe are one of five negro merchants on this particular street what kind of experience was. If you had in this situation. As far as. Getting into business did you have any trouble getting capital or getting the building. And is there any kind of a merchants group association here. Well there is no getting back to your first question the merchants. I mean getting acquiring capital. This was something that just had to build up over the period of years. We started from scratch. And as far as emergence group we did. Attempt to revive the merger. Ty Tonia Avenue Merchants Association before Christmas but. Well they know this was going along pretty good we gave a Halloween party for the underprivileged children that went over well

and we were planning to put a Christmas tree up on the square. But we ran into deep difficulties through fear of reprisal. Half of the merchants didn't want to go along with this treaty so the idea was dropped. So consequently This left the region it's divided and it seems as though the whole thing is ready to go down the drain again. I was there at one time a group of merchants on the street that had an association working. Well this was when this area was predominantly white merchants. As of now. Most of the merchants have moved out and that association folded up. When you spoke of a fear of reprisal Was this because of the Black Christmas operation. Well that that's true. Did you personally think that the commandos would have caused any physical trouble. I don't think so. This.

Well let's put it this way. I don't think they would have done anything to. Really harm. Any anyone in particular. I do believe that the commandos have been booking blame for a lot of things that they didn't do. There are other. Groups in the city that I'd say bear watching more than many. Organized groups or do you mean just roving teenagers or roving teenagers you have a problem with roving teenagers here at your store. Occasionally not much I mean they come in some time I know that. Well I know when someone comes in that's up to no good and we have our precautionary measures that we take and we've never had any trouble. And those ships an extraordinary lighting set up here is this a look to me like an. Alarm device or picture taking device or something. No no no this is just for a jewelry show. We do have a our security set up but not a

lot of that we played in you know I noticed a store across the street has it in the front is boarded up with something that happened during the disturbances last summer. Nor that store that particular store the proprietor or liquor store moved across the street and then they boarded the empty building up to keep out the vandals. However there were these boarded up. Stores. They don't do the neighborhood any good whatsoever. What do you recall about the disturbances last summer what was this area about it all. Not so much. We sort of for the five of us formed our own security force and this is the five new dimensions on this block. That's right. I won't say force but we patrol the area and we were. Consequently we were able to keep down the quite a bit of what was happening

in others you know areas of the city. What do you think are the basic causes of that uprising or riot or disturbance whatever was determined. Well basically I think that we don't came from outside influence now. Plus the fact that when you get responsible people predict riots and you plant the seed of riot in people's minds and we aren't quite so responsible. What makes you think it was outside influence. Well because of the inflexible order out of town people just shortly before the riot this was rumored. And during this riot or uprising or civil disturbance. I observed a lot of Michigan license plates myself. Do you think this was something in which many people. Really felt an interest and participated in in the Negro community you know why are you

speaking of this of the so-called Right. No I think actually the rioters didn't get the cooperation from the vast majority of people that they expected. This is why it fizzled out. Now they speak of a riot next year. And I. I sincerely doubt it. I know this that because this riot didn't produce any damaging effects in say people getting killed. That the rioters went away I think thinking that they had won a complete victory. And I think this is why you still get talk of a riot next year and connection and there's a widespread feeling among a number of people I've talked to the. Police relations with the community are not what they should be how do you feel about them. Well now this is a. Loaded question.

But. Must be two sides or more to any question. This certainly has a nice sunny. Actually I don't think it's a relationship between the community and the police are that bad. Basically I think most of the people in the community want more and better police protection. There are those that like to say rabble rousers that do like to stir up trouble that point their finger to the police department and they would do this regardless of who was running the police department or or whatnot. This thing I think the whole thing smacks of a lack of real real punishment. I think your trouble more or less is in the courts not on the street. What's been your relation with the police during your years here in Milwaukee. Well I've been on very friendly terms with the police myself I mean.

I depend on the police. The policeman on the beat here they're all friendly and they're all good solid citizens as far as I'm saying. You haven't had any evidence of the excessive use of force which I hear complaints about from time to time. No I I haven't. You hear about these things that you never see anything that back back up what you hear. No I've never seen. One of the big political cries of the years apparently going to be crime in the streets have you seen things change here in the years that you've been here which are something like 10 to 15 years. Well things are steadily getting worse. There was a time when my wife and I we would stroll up here on this particular street and go take in a movie or we didn't mind going out for a stroll in the evening. I don't even like to go out on a stroll. And evening by myself and I'm a

man. What what has changed what has happened. Well there are so many incidents of muggings just general troublemakers on the street nowadays that most people just don't want to come in contact with us. So over they they just make arrangements not to go out unless they're driving or but they just don't want to be seen walking in the streets at night. What additional police on the night beats be helpful. I'd say no. Not unless. They did something downtown in the way of punishment. When I say punishment I mean I don't mean this thing about probation. See these teenagers nowadays. Some of them got records by the time that they're 18 that would make John diligences record look sick. And these could right of them they have never been locked away or really disciplined and consequently I mean they're

there picked up and turned loose but before then they're almost back out of the out of the safety building down there they're almost out back on the street as fast as the officer the officer has to stay down there three or four hours and write him up and juvenile as backup carries the head before the officer gets back. You sound like you'd be almost in favor of a much different discipline and. Something almost approaching a police state. Well I wouldn't say that I favor a police state but I'll tell you this if living in a police state means that my myself and my family I can operate my business my family doesn't have to live in fear or things like that of this nature if that's what. A man wants to interpret as a police state then I'd say that's what I'd like. Do you think your views are rather. Commonly held or unusual among Negroes living in the core.

Well dealing with the public right so that they're more or less commonly common. Amongst adults. Younger people know you've got a generation coming up now that. They're more or less. Militant we'll say but there's a need for militancy in some areas but. But breaking the law. No I don't want this at all. When you think about some of these other areas of obvious controversy such as housing education and jobs you think these are given disproportionate attention in the press. Well a lot of this is played up to excess and. There is a basic need for training jobs but I think opportunities are there. They haven't always been there. But things are opening up now where I think it let's put it this way I think it's time now all for thinking people to

sit down and think it over and say Now look this is a time now to really capitalize and take advantage on the good things that have come out. I wouldn't say this is a time to try to bust loose with a. Wide scale riot. In order to obtain more. I think they could lose. More now by going into something like this and they would gain. You think that these riots really contributed as many people say to the passage of civil rights bills pouring of money into the cities or would these things maybe have happened anyway. Well I wouldn't say a riot control contributed to anything. I'll say this. You take back in the days of the end of Lee's CPE when Thurgood Marshall was the attorney he used one basic law. And that's the Constitution too.

Two to cope with all of these you know denials all right I think the man better the thousand before the same Supreme Court. But when you've got a good organization going. Then you get split up and the other is following groups that all want to seek power and everybody wants to get in on the act. This is what I think is happening. And this is why you've got some groups very militant some groups not. Then you've got the end of a lazy parent and doubly see being a little bit more conservative. The Urban League still more conservative and this is where you get all of the friction. Are some of these more militant groups putting a lot of pressure on say the Urban League in the in the lazy P to become more militant. Well they were doing this I don't know why. Now actually I am not an active member then don't lead sleepy but as an

outsider. Looking in I'd say that the NWC PD has been more or less condemned. By the younger militant groups. If you've been active in any civil rights organisation act in actual civil rights organizations you know I haven't had the time and plus the fact that. Finding it's just it's almost like a religion you've got to find a place where you fit. And I just haven't found a place where anyone that I really agree with on a lot of these missions should also mention that many young negro militants would really brand you want to Uncle Tom wouldn't it. They might. But I say this I think a man should think for himself. I don't think. I should change my viewpoint.

I'm a man 40 years old and I've always even before going into business when I was just a factory worker. I enjoyed a certain measure of success due to my own efforts. And I think that if people would get out and really push their selves. Then. There will come a long form. I take it you wouldn't agree at all then with such black power people has a still to come Michael. Stokely Carmichael No. No no. I never could agree with anyone like him. Now you take Martin Luther King. I have agreed with him up to a certain point. Even some of the things that father grew up in I agree with up to a point. I don't agree with any of them entirely. But I think. We have one basic law on the land and that's

the Supreme Court. I mean the Constitution and I think a lot of this could be ironed out if the battles were fought there and not out history. Let me inject a personal note here that you grew up in Racine I believe. Right. And spent most of your life here in Wisconsin which is quite a bit different from say Mississippi. I wonder if you'd grown up in the Mississippi. Do you if you would feel differently. This is hard to say having not grown up and I have been in this city and I've seen conditions there. And believe it or not I have seen conditions in Mississippi. That. Could be easily refuted with just a little effort insofar as patching up houses and things like this. When I see a man living. In squalor or in a dilapidated building that maybe just a handful of

nails. Would improve and I said man there's something wrong there there's something wrong with the individual he just owns he's not showing any initiative and I've always found it when you see when you show a certain amount of initiative yourself there's always someone is going to come along and help give you a little push. But you've got to show some yourself first. If you had in your part what do you think the thing is some of the main things would be to improve racial relations here in Milwaukee. Well first let's face it I don't think that you can riot in the streets and make people like you. I don't think Cramming a lot out of somebody is certainly is going to make them like you know. I think. This thing could be talked out compromised. And.

Then then I think he would there be a better understanding between both of both races as well. But the thing for him to say specifically on the housing issue is really. The word seems to be that housing is very very difficult to obtain outside of certain areas do you think this is entirely so. I don't think so in its entirety. Because let's face it the inner core at one time. Ended right around Wall Street. And now they stretched a founder's out a little bit past capital drive. So if it was that bad it wouldn't be growing this fast. People are reading I mean I've seen many people that. I've seen many people that. That. Suddenly acquired money straight through experience sale to the expressways that got enough money for their property and they could have moved. Or bought property in other areas of the city but they still chose

to buy their new property right in the inner core so consequently I just I just can't see that there's. Too much basis to this here. Housing you know there's a certain thing that I'm not. In WC so use of double flats. I think man or that lives in a flat head has got a right. To say who's going to live in the same house with an absentee landlord I'd say. Shouldn't discriminate because. He should. I don't say I don't know whether I should see. But there should be laws protecting people that. Do. Want property and I don't think we last should say that a man. Could deny someone the use of his house. So you would agree then that. Two points perhaps that one if a comprehensive fair housing law were passed that relatively few people would be actually

moving but there's an important point that. The right to move anywhere should be. Valid. That's right. Actually if they passed the open housing law well. Let's face it I live right here in a quarter myself. Right and I heard it of course. And. They could pass all the open the housing laws they wanted but if I didn't have the money to move I wouldn't I wouldn't know. So you're a businessman who has a financial stake in this community. What do you think. Two questions First what do you think as far as next summer is concerned. Are there likely to be disturbances and if you think there are what are you or people like you going to. Do if anything to try to head it off. Well we're working. Actually now and as far as disturbances go I'd. I really can't foresee any major disturbances.

We might have some but I hope not. But as far as heading it off is concerned. I don't know who can stop it if it if it were coming I don't know. It's not. That leadership. Of some of the younger more militant groups. I don't I certainly don't think they're about to step in and try to stop it. I'm not going to say that they would fan it but they're not going to try to stop it because they're the ones that really more or less are predicting. You think the kind of very quick reaction on the part of the city government which happened last summer was the proper way to handle such a situation. Well I'd say yes. It had to be quick or else a lot of people would have that killed saying you think that perhaps over reacted. Not in a quickness but in the amount of troops and so you know.

I think this thing was handled pretty decently there by putting on the curfew and putting it into it right real fast. However if I'd say this if we had had that type of thing in here that they had to say Detroit or New York and. Scores of people got hurt and kill. Then I don't think he would probably wouldn't have this rumor or this coming year. You think it was quite a basic difference in between what happened in Milwaukee and what happened in New York and Detroit. Well let's face it I've been to Detroit and I've ridden through what they call their ghetto and they have ghettos in comparison to what we have here we have what they call a ghetto here. It's nice compared to what I've seen in cities like Chicago and Detroit. Perhaps some people in the Rockies certainly people around the state don't understand it depending on your

definition of area that there is a significant white population in the core. But there is there's question that there is a white or white population of course. And I've noticed here in your jewelry shop that you have white customers or we have quite a few. I'd say in fact it's odd but true. I appreciate it. I can understand it but I'd say just about a third of my business is white. Being in an area that's bounded say by about 95 percent Negro. Are you optimistic about the future in Milwaukee where. There is a great future in Milwaukee. I mean it's I've always said this that it's green pastures for any negro that wants to go and there isn't because of the lack of Negro enterprise here. Just about any feel that he was choosing is going to he's going to be the first. I was the first in the first licensed negro watchmaker in the city.

The gentleman that had the liquor store across the street was a first Negro and he said I only bought a house license. So consequently just about anything you go into you're going to be the first you're going to note a lack of competition. So I've always said this is just green pastures for investment. Is there such a thing as a Negro leader in this community. One hears all talk about the Negro community. In my experience there is no such thing. In the absence of an election there's a lot of people that call itself leaders and self-appointed leaders. There is leadership. Say it will say in churches and in the end WCP all these various groups have their leaders. Now I think the main thing is to get the leaders together to come up on something common that all of the people could follow. I mean but as far as having one basic

leader that you know they've never had anything like that here. The young militants complain about this 30 complain about black people not sticking together. I'm not sure that that's necessarily a good idea what do you think about. The word any group necessarily being that cohesive and therefore separate. I think they should stick together for economic reasons because I think actually this is the this is the answer to the whole problem. We have to say take this riot that occurred last summer. Now if all of the energies that went before us into this rack went forth into. Getting together. And they're putting their money. And efforts and say Let's face it if I if I were making a million dollars a year. Someone there'd be someone there to get some of it. And the more I held onto it the more he'd come and

ask for it. And this could have been done now. Actually this boycott thing. For Christmas had this been handled properly. A lot of good could come out of this. What was the final result of that and was never able to get good solid information to you Do you feel that it was affecting. The Black Christmas point. I don't think so because there was too many other things injected into this they injected fear into the people about putting up Christmas trees and buying toys for their children. This was a bad thing. It would have been all right if they just said Oh if you want to buy toys by legal virgins. Or. Things of this nature. But but I. Just creating that fear of people buying anything at all.

I'd say this was wrong and especially having people being afraid to put up Christmas tree is engaging the spirit of Christmas. But do you think it worked you think it really hurt the downtown merchants as it was supposed to. No I don't because you take say a store like gimbals and Schuster's it was a store. These people all have stores in Brookfield and only other outlying suburbs and it's just a simple matter for them to. Shift some of their personnel out to the other stores to handle the extra crowds that they're going to get out there. I don't think that the large downtown merchants were affected. I was afraid. You were. I will definitely affect it. Because people were afraid to be seen with packages period no matter where they come from my being a neighborhood of the do it. They were just really afraid to be seen on the street with packages. And I was definitely.

That. Mr. Simmie Das proprietor of Leroy's jewelry shop as he talked with Ralph Johnson production manager for the state stations. This has been part of our continuing series of programs recorded in north central Milwaukee. Join us again next week for another conversation from the inner core. This is Ken Aust speaking.