African Americans Speak Out

Schism between older folks saying you know younger folks first of all second like in New York City right 67 percent of the Latinos don't even graduate from high school. So how am I going to be in the streets of Flatbush ferment of action. And that's something that's that's a college issue right. So then we even talk about issues of middle class you know and who privies from affirmative action. You know and again I'm I'm an affirming a person who got I'm sure going into both my universities through some affirmative action program. You know and I think at every level we should fight. You know they did their day in inundate us with fights on a daily basis. You know when you're walking down the street get stopped by the police trying to go to law school to then take you know all these tests to become a lawyer we understand that as a hip hop generation but I think we really need to frame it and in a grassroots orientated issue and us who call us activists cannot be an elite activists which is to say we can't be just always on hand.

I'm not saying that's out of disrespect to anyone here because I admire everybody's work here. But in particularly what's going on with the affirmative action debate too now is this whole issue of the census and so-called Hispanic Americans. First of all I am not Hispanic. I took offense to that Strom. I hate it. It was a term that actually means I'm from Spain. I am not whites. I'm a black Puerto Rican. I'm an African. When we began to pray and even began to identify ourselves in terms that this government does not want to so identify that's revolutionary because everyone in here who looks like me you're my brother my sister. What they don't with this whole issue of now saying Hispanic Americans have become the largest minority group. What is that. And when you walk out the census Hispanic American not of black origin. What are you talking about like that's. That's again the insanity that then begins to even pit in this affirmative actions of pity as a sister was saying black and brown people

against each other. Right. So we need to even begin to reframe the language and the power designs. And then if we thought to young people from that perspective and say as as Dr. Malveaux said it's not only about getting into college this is about jobs also and our ability for those who want to be hard core capitalists and work in corporate America. You know what that. True. Your ability to do that is being even taken away. So we had we really got to talk to brothers and sisters from the press that perspective New York we got more men locked up that are being admitted to college. So then the larger issue is let's talk about reparations and not just the government. And I think we're all kind of coming from our own heart a corporate perspective up here but I think you talk to young people about reparations Now that's something the hip hop generation is mobilizing around and that's real. Let me ask you all this question and I want to go to Robin Leonhardt together for us answer Amanda

George Corey. It seems we have two contradictions. There's no question certainly from the perspective I think all of us on this stage that affirmative action has done a lot of positive good that affirmative action has accomplished a lot of things. At the same time what I'm also hearing a lot of you say is that there are significant gaps between how African-Americans are doing and how other aspects of society are doing. Now some of the people who are critics of affirmative action raise the question if affirmative action has been so successful if it's been so important why do we still have these gaps. Now that's a question that I think the way to talk about and I and Robin can you open that discussion for us. I can but I I want to respond to an earlier answer because it is because I think it's a very important question of what will happen if there is a law in the Supreme Court and I agree with. My sisters on the panel

who've talked about the importance of looking to what happens in secondary and elementary education looking at what happens in economics but in terms of what will happen in education higher education I think we need to focus on that and be clear and I think I started off the conversation tonight by being very legal list. I want to be very real with you on this. While it's true that we need to be pushing on all fronts. If the if there is an adverse decision in the Michigan cases what we will see is the resegregation of institutions of higher education I don't mean one or two. I don't mean only Michigan or Harvard It is the case that following Baki almost every every selected institution of higher education in this country adopted the plan. The Harvard plan

approved in education if this court strikes it down even if and I think my friend James former was being very optimistic even if the court says well we don't like these programs but it's still permissible. The truth is that what they will be saying is that affirmative that the use of race is fatal in fact the practical effect of saying you can't do what Michigan does when all of the schools do it. Is resegregation and we know this. It's not just a theoretical matter we know this from what happened in California what happened in Texas. These these these institutions in these states saw an incredible precipitous drop in the enrollment of students of color. And we need to be very clear about that I think that UCLA went from having 30 students of color to two in the first year to African-Americans following following

the adoption of 209 in California. That's what we're facing here. And while it shouldn't be our only fight as a community we need to be focused on that because that is a real serious flaws. George Carlin let me if you want to follow up on that just like yes let But. Let me also ask you my second question I have two quick I've asked you two questions of course question I'm going to ask you is this. Talk to me about a world where we've had 25 years plus of affirmative action at the same time we have significant gaps that still exist in the African-American community and that exist between the African-American community in the white community talk to me about those two contradictions. Basically I'm neither my parents finished high school. So I get an extra points for going to college. I grew up in a house of quad. That's all I've been if you have a program. I went to Sports Illustrated's only black face

there among reporters. The cause of affirmative action. So I got an opportunity to son of neither parent to teach high school to move ahead in this country because of the action. But the problem is the critics and I know in my data book deferred action abate has a critic in the people who support us and the critics say we are doesn't help poor people will help me. Secondly. Second term action program is not an anti-poverty program and we had an anti-poverty program to people critical of it. They were not supporting those. We need affirmative action. And we still need a real anti-poverty program. That's why we don't we have the gaps. We have another problem to have a gap and knowledge and that's in part because of my profession. I'm a journalist. I've been one for 33 years. But the problem is the media has adopted the language of the far right in

discussing affirmative action. First of all they say it's race based but that's a lie. There's not a universal in this country based on your race night or black colleges. Three. On a sable gender base don't accept you because your six big except you because your qualification. Then you got George Bush another saying was a quota program. Well first of all he can repeat and I hope he can. He would know the executive order 1 1 2 4 6 that establish affirmative action specifically forbids quotas. He knows that the right way knows that it will be its quotas. Yet they want to use it as a buzzword. So you got it mystified in the media. We have polls that are worded in such a way that you get different results where you ask the American public why folks do you support equality personally benefited from affirmative action and open up

doors of it close to them. They say yes but they use a loaded term preference which is what the media has adopted. They are going to say no let me construct a poll. I can dictate the outcome. James Forman I want to ask I want to go to Dr. Titus. And I want to follow up on something that George Curry just talked about. If the Michigan program is struck down I want to keep us keep us on that level for one more second. What a lot of people will propose as an alternative is that we have a class to base admissions that we have a resort to poverty as a factor instead of rice. You can make whatever point you want to make but I want you and then Dr. Tatum to address that argument. Why isn't that good and why isn't it sufficient to have a program that takes into account class as opposed to just right. Because isn't that going to be what ends up happening in some ways of these programs rather than Dimes. The first thing I want to speak to is this question of why your last question which is why do we

have all these problems in our community and these disparities in society. If affirmative action has been working so well and I think that's a really it's an important question because it's a disingenuous argument that people make on this because I mean I live in Washington D.C. and so do most most of the people in this room. And we know that we live in a city that doesn't have enough money for a school system that doesn't have good affordable housing that doesn't have a social safety net work that doesn't have adequate health care. And so we have black and brown children growing up in this city who are suffering because of that. That's a separate issue from affirmative action. People are benefiting and should benefit from affirmative action. But that doesn't mean that we as a nation don't have a responsibility to deal with those other issues. And when we don't deal with those other issues. We sure shouldn't be blaming affirmative

action for the fact that we have those problems. We need to be dealing with the fact that we're not addressing those problems. But related to that. And it also goes to and we need to deal with who is attacking these programs because the people that are attacking these programs often say look you know we have the elite in black America who benefit from these programs and the real issues are poverty and the children that can't benefit the lower class children they're not benefiting from affirmative action. And my question is if that's what you really believe if you really believe the problem is schools and health care and housing then where are you on the front lines doing something about that issue. No seriously if all of the energy and the money of the conservative think tanks that were attacking affirmative action were spent

helping working class children in our cities then we might be able to make some progress on that issue so I really think we should not let them off the hook when they make that argument. Now in terms of what will happen on the with these class space plans I would like to defer to Robin or Elaine who I know have been thinking specifically about that issue. I think they can respond to that better than I could. We'll go to them one of them a chance to go thank you. I'm going to just say a word about the class best based question and that is that there are more poor white people in the country than there are poor people of color. So if you have a class based program it still is going to advantage whites disproportionately. But what I why you original comment had to do with your question about why is it that despite affirmative action we still see these differences. And I want to bring a perspective that I haven't heard represented on the panel and that's the perspective of a psychologist. There is a lot of research on what psychologists call evaluation bias. And this

is the notion that when people are trying to evaluate someone's performance they don't do it neutrally the lens of race is always there. There's a very a lot of wide body of research in social psychology that says that when white evaluators are looking at performances of white people and black people and comparing them bias creeps in. What's really interesting about where that bias creeps in is that the more talented the black candidate is the more likely there is to be bias against that person. So that when there is when candidates are the same you know if you ask white evaluators and John de video who is a social psychologist has done a lot of this work he says that when you have white and black candidates that are both poorly qualified they both get rejected no bias there. But when you have white candidates and black candidates that are both highly qualified the black candidate is penalized for being highly qualified. That it's. The

socialization that we have that we are all exposed to the media stereotypes about who is good and who isn't creeps in and it's hard to detect for white readers it's harder for them to see the talent of a black candidate. And so consequently when we talk about even affirmative action you know I have heard some people say well you don't need affirmative action if you're quote too good to ignore. If you're too good to ignore you're more likely to be ignored because the bias creeps in there so that's just one example but there is a lot of research in psychology that indicates why it is so difficult to get beyond these barriers without formal structures in place. Let me go back to this to someone we haven't heard from in a while Ted Wells and then Julian if you want to talk about the success of approach of action. I'll give you some concrete examples.

As I said I really believe the origin of a preemptive action goes back to those classes that entered school in the fall of 68 69. And when I look back at the black folks that were at Harvard Law School with me who would not have been there but who are permits of action and what those people have done it is astounding. We have one young brother in our class His name was Kurt Schmoke. He's you know doing. We had another guy my class can't you know chairman of American Express. We had another guy Frank Raines chairman of Fannie Mae. We had Charles Ogletree. I mean I'm talking about people who but for affirmative action would not have been at Harvard Law School. So I believe that we we've been at Howard we still would have done OK. But we're trying to spread the wealth of. Any.

Man. When you look at the successes I don't see how any policymaker can be serious about saying that affirmative action has not been successful. Now some of the conservatives they try to play this class thing is economic thing now they say well we want to have affirmative action for people who are underprivileged but not people of color. I'm going to tell you racism racism does not distinguish between rich black or poor black. You can be a lawyer making a big salary. You can put your kid in one of these private schools and your child will come home every day scarred every day so I don't want to hear anything about. All well the lawyer son why should he get some extra privilege because he's get it but like everybody else and it's affecting him

just like it affects all of us. Be you rich middle class or poor. So what we have to understand is that the conservative element is trying to craft certain arguments in order to appeal to the public so we get these buzzwords again like preference and quotas quota that's one of the big buzzwords one of the hot issue buzzwords because it makes people react. But we have to step back and realize that some I said a minute ago is one of the most insightful comments I've heard that if the critics of affirmative action was so serious about the welfare of our country about making progress why aren't they spending their time focusing on the issues of poor schools poor housing. They don't care they focus on one thing trying to kick us out of the schools and that's what it's about and is terrible and that's why it is political. And that's why all you have to come out. Please listen to me come out on Tuesday.

Come out in front of. Me. Thank you. I'm glad that attorney Wells raised the issue of racism because I haven't heard us talk very much about the institutional nature of racism. It is it is in the bowels of the the fiber of the United States of America they've been so many. Dr. Tatum he talked about the performance the value would have by a sales recently a study done by economists looking at people with the same qualifications and their names on admissions forms. Tammy is more likely to get into school than to make up you know and we know that Michael more likely than will leak and we could go down the list and so just that kind of bias continues to exist. So you ask the question why do we still have gaps economic gaps well gaps after 25 years of action. What how many years did we have slavery. How many years do we have to have Jim Crow was 25 years supposed to take us all the way back. One of the one of the gaps that I like to look

at as an economist is the homeownership gap. And that's an interesting gap to look at because it really does talk about class and transformation. If you own a home you basically have some collateral Some Well 74 percent of all white Americans own their homes compared to 47 percent of black and brown people. Now why is that. We can tease it out part of it is because black and brown people have less money. But part of it also is that we could still demonstrate banking bias. We can take that bias from the banking industry into every other industry in our economy and we take those biases into every industry we have to fall back and look at this issue of institutional racism. It's uncomfortable to do. But the basic tension I think it's a tension around affirmative action as well. The basic tension the United States the tension between viewing yourself as an individual and doing yourself as part of a group if you view yourself. And that's the trick back conservatives will get you it is having Well you're an individual this is about individual achievement where we have individual slavery. You know I mean I just

think you are and. I would never forget our own poll Mr. Thomas when he said and here I am. But North Korea rubbed off. What was your. Point. When you said his confirmation hearing said it was very point he said I know segregation My grandmother had to use a segregated bathroom and I kept thinking What the bathroom did not say. Claire says Thomas's grandmama come here what it says was color. We have to look at the institutional piece of this. The signs don't say white a color anymore it's a different kind of racism it's not about what you have to go to the back of the bus is about what you can own the bus company what you can zone the buses what you can decide what kinds of things you can import and export whether you can decide where things are driven there was a case in New York that Johnnie Cochran successfully tried where young sister was trying to cross a divided highway because a shopping mall said a bus could not stop in front of the project so she crossed a divided highway and was course was killed by

a truck. And bless Johnny for getting some money for her surviving son. But this is the kind of thing that happens every day so when you want to know why the gaps exist it is because it is the fabric of this country. It's economic it's political it's social. But most importantly we have not constructed the language that constructed the language to begin to unpack this. Affirmative action is not the most America can do for us. It frankly is the least that American. You let me go to Wade Henderson next and let Mame as I do that try to take us to a slightly different topic. Mr. Henderson given the discussion that we're having tonight what is the next battleground beyond affirmative action as kind of an extension of what this young lady was saying earlier if we are successful or unsuccessful in the defense of the planet

Michigan what is the next strategy at that the African-American community needs to employ to close some of the gaps that we've talked about and to still accomplish the positives behind affirmative action. What is the next step in the battle. You know I think as a community and I'm referring now to the community both racially and in terms of progressive political thought. We've been wrestling with that issue now since Maki came down and certainly the University of Michigan's case has once again brought it to the surface. And I think our young sister from Boston who talked about the need to construct. A new political paradigm that talks about options in a variety of different ways really is on the money. I think we're going to need a multifaceted strategy to try to address some of the issues that Julianne in particular talked about that my friend George and Elaine touched on and I think you have to look at it in several ways.

First I think that Ted Wells touched on something early on when he mentioned the issue of remediation and he talked about having lost the thrust behind remediation as a concept for reconstructing our communities full of the loss we have collectively suffered. I think my friend Charles Ogletree struck on something when he and other colleagues like Johnnie Cochran and Willie Gary filed the first of a series of reparation lawsuits to begin to frame and articulate the issue of how we deal with this question. Don't be afraid of reparations because it is grounded in. It is wrong. Founded in Judeo Christian principle it is the foundation of equitable law in this country for every wrong there is a remedy that is the basis of equity and

we have lost the issue of remediation and the question of reparations puts that issue back on the table. Square and center. So I do think we have to pursue a course of action around the issue of reparations but I think I think we have to do that we have to. But that is only one element of the tools that we have to employ to move us to where. Congressman your question takes us. Let me go to Charles Ogletree because I had Charles I know you have to leave us alone. Do log of us here like you know he's got a lady you know Mitt Romney is out. I want to go to Charles Ogletree because I know what he has to lay before some other people do. Yeah I just want to say a couple of things. Congressman Davis and that is sort of making sure we don't lose sight of the bigger issue here because I think as our community watches this program and looks at all these highly educated highly influential African-Americans talk about affirmative action they are right to say well what about me.

And when we talk about Yale and Harvard and Stanford and Morris Brown is going to say what about me. And I think it's important. I was going to say this because the Michigan case is important. We have to fight that battle but that's just a small balance. If we fight and keep the Harvard it's open for a few of us. And and they closed the Morris Browns for the most of us we have lost that battle. Tim. The other thing I want to say is that as I reflect on this I'm actually writing a book that will come out a year from now called all deliberate speed. It's about the 50th anniversary of Brown and I have to say that as thrilled as we were in 1954 when we

won that unanimous decision those three words took it away. And so there was a commitment to diversity in affirmative action and integration with all deliberate speed which meant no speed at all. And so we cannot let even a favorable Supreme Court decision. Delude us into thinking that we've won something and we won ground and we were still faced with dogs and holes us. We won case after case and we still didn't win. And so I think there's a larger argument that's why I appreciate wait mention issue of reparations because I don't want to debate that tonight I'm happy to debate it but I don't want to debate it tonight. But the whole issue are reparations movement. It's not about us. Not a single warrior involved in this is getting any money. Every Johnnie Cochran I drive Michelle Roberts Dennis sweet Randall Robinson Rolle

Sanders Willie Gary all the lawyers who are working with me are all doing it for free. And we're representing now as you might have heard black people who are 80 and 90 and a hundred and Tulsa Oklahoma one of the most horrific and incidences of racial violence in the 20th century. And even they say it's not about them because they're saying that we don't want your money. It's not just about money. We want you to fix the problem. We didn't come here first class or even tourist class. We didn't ask to come here. We built this great city the nation's capital. The White House the Lincoln Memorial the Jefferson Memorial but not a single plaque is anywhere in the city to recognize what we've done. And so affirmative action is the most conservative the most modest the most minuscule response to a

horrific history that we've had. And it hasn't stopped if you think I'm lying. Ask Ahmed Jaleo if you think I'm lyin ass Abner Louima. And that's the issue here that as much as we think we've made progress as much as we have Oprah's and the Bill Cosbys and all these other folks we have a community that has never been offended from affirmative action that has never been inferred from integration our community is still stuck in neutral. And so our battle can't be just to get five votes on a decision if we are satisfied with that. That our clients have foods for lawyers. We can't be satisfied. We cannot be satisfied until we change the whole terrain in America where we won't have to talk about race again. But it's not going to happen because a few of us get a degree or a job or are allowed to go into the suites upstairs or get our face on TV it's not going to happen until that child being born at

the hospital right now will be able to say that I'm going to have a fair chance in America in spite of the fact that I'm black. And so we have to see the battle is much bigger than a case. It is a cause. It is a cost for our children our grandchildren as for our descendants who are looking down saying what did they do we gave our lives we gave our lives for them. What are we prepared to do for the next generation. That's the question that we have to ask not only Tuesday but the work doesn't end on Tuesday. It starts on Tuesday it starts on Tuesday. And our job is to make sure we do it for our entire community. I had wanted to respond to a lot of the things that God has said. I hate being the one here you know. But I'm glad I'm here regardless because when first I

want to say I think when we see these gaps I think about again language. First you cannot legislate humanity. It's a God given right. Ever since Africans have been enslaved and disperse we have to fight at so many levels that we try to actually get people to legislate what is a human right. Food clothing shelter education. Those are human rights but unfortunately we have to fight to actually even legislate them. And then even when they legislate it. Are they really carried out. Hence why we have Anthony bias. Amadou Diallo Patrick Dorismond. And we can name hundreds and hundreds of names of brothers and sisters have been murdered by the police. So I think why would this government conservatives or white supremacists which is what they automatically are. If they can't even admit that slavery was a crime against humanity how are we going to get. Support affirmative action.

As Dr. Malveaux said is the least that they can do but they cannot in it although at the U.N. conference on world racism where I was a reparations youth representative the whole world said that the U.S. reparations was a crime against humanity. I was there when Colin Powell you know and George not Colin Powell what's what Colin Powell showed up for like a day and said he was walking out because of the Israel-Palestine. No he walked out because of the issue of reparations because why he went there because the issue up until that moment have been framed around. An African-American issue. No there's an Afro Latino movement worldwide that is fighting for reparations and they're the leading people right now outside of the United States. So when they began to see that we're talking about black people coming together worldwide as Malcolm was talking about he was added they are like that. He balance because he began to see the ability of us as black

people again as black people not African-Americans as black people globally are power. Right. So as Nelly Fuller said and so want understands the system a white supremacy everything and anything else will confuse you. So we have to talk about reclaiming our minds reclaiming the. We have to get to the hearts and souls of the people. And lastly Can we talk about self-determination resegregation. I work in New York City public schools. Ok I live in Flatbush Brooklyn. That's segregation. I'm not opposed to that I love living with my people. What I'm opposed to is my ability to self-determine my faith and have economic equity. That's what I'm opposed to. Let me. One of the things as modern writer I have to do is I have in a visible hourglass that no one can see but me and it tells me something about who hasn't talked as much. So part of my job

and the last half hour is to make sure that some people have not talked as much get an opportunity to participate so I want to go to Lane Jones and I want to move us in the 20 minutes we've got before we take questions from the audience to a slightly different issue. There's a lot of consensus on this panel about what our priorities ought to be. There's a lot of consensus about where we go from here. The political reality is that where we go from here is to a Congress that's controlled by Republicans in the House and Senate to a White House that's controlled by a Republican president and to a 2004 election cycle where the president is frankly likely to be re-elected. We go from here to the president being able to appoint a Supreme Court. That is probably going to bay even worse than this Supreme Court. Those are the political realities that we're facing. So beginning with the lion Jones talked to me about the strategies that the people on this panel employ given the

conservative political climate in this country and given the institutional control by the Republican Party of all of our branches of government how do we get around that. We're going to land jobs. Not only that the people on his panel. Our elected members of Congress that we have to give another message to that wears on the. See. But I are still in the minority and you still need a lot of help and I know I know I lost listen there was. And. You know I know you. Well. The first five years I mean I. I hear what you say but you see. Are we worthy of the legacy we've inherited. Than a loon Hey mom

I am sick. Didn't I say the same. Thing. We have political. Power. That we don't you. Just you know Jessica all. Right. We don't have. Political discussions. I mean. You've been an old Scotch. We are right. I. Don't know all. We just we just. Got out and exercise the franchise. Exercise with folks or let it. Hold them accountable. If. You. Ever district. You know.

That the money to try out the door to know what gender you want to be in their meeting and how and look. Who have the privilege and the blessing to be able to get a college education. Or. To enter. Into. And understand and be spokespeople. Now now also as Lawrence. As Thurgood Marshall Thurgood Marshall is now a community organizer. You know Marshall and Martin Luther King on the steward then as. Martin says I'm going on here and there and. And MARTIN So when I got to do what I have to do to you come get me. Now.

Ah. What I'm talking about. You know. People have different spring. And. Spring strategy now less looking at what we've got to remember. You know it's nice that one day. You. Know you're wrong. Now take it away. We want to hear and look where we are now. So if. Ever You have to be ever vigilant. Now. One of the issues. That we have to find a legal strategy to deal with the 14th Amendment.

Take an. Amendment. And. Took it away and park it. Citizens. Gave us equal protection of the law all. Along that amendment that brought. All of our. All of our nonwhite. And that's where did. That. That is some. Racial discrimination is nothing we can do. They called it. In over in the air. It's no wonder we played like everybody. Everybody knows that. But. They. Got the law OK. What. If the court had said that about gender discrimination. Is. Discrimination against women.

And. That does nothing with. That doctrine that is now race and ethnicity. They have taken that. As So what Justice. How do I say. All right. But I brought it it is an important matter now and the right to the educational one. So that's our job. As for us all the boss is going to use this but that's a that's a crime. Our job right now is to on the way to make sure that it recognizes that the third and ninth Congress that passed them adopted the 14th Amendment was an affirmative action card. Let me go let me go to mush on the bald one. And let me ask the

same question I posed to a land route given the fact that the other side if you will has been winning a lot of elections in this country whether we like it or not. What's the strategy for your generation to deal with that. Well that's an excellent question and I have to take taking copious notes. So let me let me just say this and I'm going to piggyback on our on a question you asked a little earlier about the next battlefield the next battleground. Now I happen to be a Desert Storm veteran so I was trained how to fight a war how to fight a battle. And so strategy is what is really all about and for our community right now. One of the key things we need to do first in the piggyback on Dr. Tatum is we need to deal with the psychological effects of our community right now. The argument that we really need to be talking about is how are we right now victims of conscious slavery even though we're not in physical bondage we're still feeling the affects. So one of the key things

one of the strategies as we began the plan for the future is about healing and that's healing our community. And how do we do that. That's the first thing. The second thing is we need to rededicate educate ourselves. Right now we've heard some wonderful examples of how some of the biggest issues today were talking about education health care. We need to re educate ourselves on the priorities that have a direct effect on our community. The next thing we need to do is we need to change our leadership style. Right now we have individual leadership. We need to go back to the basics and go to servant leadership. See because. America would have us believe that we need to be individuals. But that's not the spirit that we come from. THE SPIRIT OF HARRY AT THE go back into the to the south to free people. That's the spirit of a sense of community that although I'm free if you're not free then none of us are.

Thank you. So as we move to the servant leadership what we need to really understand is we have to start being excited about being the first or being the second black this or that and we need to understand that leadership is really about when you're a servant leader is about getting in the trenches. And when you get in the trenches shoulder to shoulder with those who truly need the help the collective unconsciousness of that entire group will rise. So right now we need to move from that individual to the servant leadership. And the last thing I'm going to do is one of the key things that we need to do as a community we need to start pointing out the inconsistency of our leaders. And I'm going to give this example and then I'm going to be quiet. The example is this let's look at this for example. President Bush gets up and he talks about this case and the University of Michigan affirmative action and quotas and all these things out there. However President Bush is the

commander of chief of the Armed Forces the military has one of the most aggressive affirmative action policies in the country. Now what does that say. Does that say that black people can go and die but we can't educate ourselves. And then I'm going to end with one last point. Going back to the spirit here and we look at the future and people say you know what do young people really thinking about. Well the image I have of Harriet walking around with the shotgun and she didn't have a shadow because she was going to shoot it was about making sure that the people who was going one head was going to stay because sometimes we don't know what we do. However. Today the image that we need to walk with is the gavel in the sword and it's the gavel than a sword because we need to cut a path to the truth so that we can bring to justice.

Yes. You. Let me go to George Curry and just one note for the audience at about 10 minutes we're going to give you all a chance to ask questions to the panel as we can do one of two things. And 10 minutes we may have enough time for three or four people to talk. That will require probably two men an answer is My everybody. So I'll leave it up to you all we're going to do that or not. Let me pose this question to George Curry. Same question I posed to Mr. Baldwin. Given the conservative hostile world around this what do we do to overcome that. Well first of all the universe is joyously we spin. We have six hundred forty five billion dollars a year it's been in power. If you count all people of color you talk about one trillion dollars a year. Now the first thing we do is we call each

corporation to account for example there are a lot of corporations said I'm for the University of Michigan diversity program. Among them Chevron Texaco Pfizer Xerox Corporation trio group these also the same groups that gave money to the very organization that's opposing the University of Michigan we're talking about a group that went book sales of salt on the verge of SES. The Center for Individual Rights is perhaps the most politically extreme of the groups challenge an affirmative action civil rights and racial equality United States today. Now you can come to our community and give you those parties and a little reception a CBC weekend and all our black organizations parade and yes I am a friend of diversity. And then give money to the very worst of the worst right wing groups. So I say that people who oppose our interests

we should uphold and withhold our money. Not just those who supported them but also the one who didn't bow in support of universal Michigan. And second one point is I think some leaders must be taking some hush money because I came here mouthing your own decision. If they can stand only we don't need a change in leadership styles we need to change leaders. W.A.. I'm so glad you say that you know our president is such a hypocrite. I mean he looks at a record he keeps talking about regime change. I want regime change to. The right. Way. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you after waited 2004 to get my but our esteemed Congressman said he's likely to be re-elected. That is up to us. But let's look at the damage that is being done right now because we can talk about affirmative action which is critically important but

let's also talk about the fact that affirmative action is looking at many of the elite institutions where most of our young people if they get to college as Rosa has said because many are not even getting there. But if they get to college three of them are going to our public universities the state universities we have every one of the 50 states is in financial trouble every single one of the 50 states is in financial trouble which means in Ohio a 19 percent increase at the Ohio State University of tuition in Massachusetts a 16 percent increase in New York State a thirty five percent increase in the Sunni's every single state is having financial trouble 1.7 million people mostly older mostly black and brown will be dropped from Medicaid if states have to make the kind of cuts that are supposed to be made. And those who are not dropped will file their benefits said shrinking. People keep talking about K through 12 I think with the foreman and others have talked about K through 12 Well again the No Child Left Behind should have been no Bush left ahead. But I mean you know just really.

It was literally as no millionaire left behind in so many ways. But what we will be cutting K through 12 education to get a shrinking the pool of people who are ready to go to college. Meanwhile a seven hundred and forty six billion tax cut half of which goes directly to the wealthy. The Congress last week held the voting open till the middle of the night. Was it two or three o'clock in the morning last Thursday. They held the voting open because the House of Representatives almost put their foot down on this president. The Senate did. So when we look at affirmative action we have to look at it in the context of what is having so much else is being eroded in terms of the social safety net in terms of our basic rights public assistance. Half of all women on public assistance now must work 40 hours a week in order for states to get their qualification. Mr. Bush would like to raise that to 70 percent of the women crowding out what their opportunities for education. I would not go along because I know that we have where we're limited on time but I would just really appeal to folks

to look at the devilment. This is utter devilment and that is not a public policy term. But it's what's happening. The other development that is being done to us simply reward the wealthy one last thing. Speaking of affirmative action. Not you got us a id just just ask our FP to rebuild a rag of a torrid up yet. But they put out the RPA are ready to rebuild five companies have a right to build to bid Halliburton Bechtel floor and two of her breast floor and largest black owned construction company he doesn't get to bid. There are no minority owned businesses who get to bid on that suggest of the brothers go to wrack to rebuild. But I'm just saying this is the mindset the wealthy get more wealthy. And how DARE Dick Cheney use his inside track. To empower his company but want them kept. How dare we. How dare our elected members of Congress. How do you know how there are so-called civil rights leaders sit silent. Problems happen. I

am. Thing I don't think I do sleep. Twenty seconds. I'm taking. 30 seconds and I'm watching the clock right now. First of all Bush was selected. OK. He was selected by the same Supreme Court that this case is going to go of. That's one thing. Second of all I think that in terms of political power political power does not only come from the vote it comes from people having the ability to vote. But also you know like the Black Panthers with political power sometimes got to come out of the barrel of a gun. You know when we're living in them type of times right now you all I'm seeing it I live it. A lot of us if we didn't have the privilege to be on a campus would be straight living on the projects right now having a ha so just to eat. So let's be very real about that. So as we look towards the 2004 election because the system was talking about fighting a war and she talked about guerilla warfare and the first option the first

tenant of guerrilla warfare is to use the devil's resources against them. Right whatever that devil might look like right now he looks like Bush GIULIANI The Wrestler. Right. So whatever that person looks like how do we use those resources for real how do we reclaim our space as Africans as indigenous people and how do we get away from a two party system. Akhil from New York. I know what Charles Rangle has done with an empowerment zone in Harlem you know what Charles Rangel has done. What an empowerment zone in Harlem. And so you want he's done. You go to Harlem and you can have your Starbucks coffee for $5. Get your body shop cream go to H and M and then go buy a record that I am. That's what empowerment zones have Gentz of our communities. So I want to see five party six parties the People's Party I'm sorry of this whole Democrat Republican thing. I'm tired of that because a two party system. That's not democracy.

Democracy is when someone like me like the brother here like anyone in this audience doesn't have to spend a million dollars to get elected. Then once they're elected have to fight the next 20 months. And I come from this perspective because I work for the New York State Assembly for three years with the black and Puerto Rican caucus. I see now those officials can only do something for two months three months and 21 months have to fund raise money just to get back in office. That's not political power we the people are political. I'm going to let Robin Leonhardt have the last word. But one logistical thing. We're at the point where we have a chance to take questions from the audience so let me lay out the ground rules. If you have a question head toward the back of the room you'll see people who are waving their hands right now. It's their task to line you up. Basic rules as far as questions go we're allotting exactly 30 minutes to the questions and the end

of time. You may direct your question it to members of the panel. Any two members of the panel. That should get a good number of you an opportunity to get a question salmon next half hour we're going to stop around a 25 from A to make about two and a half minutes of closing remarks. So if you can quietly. Quietly. Make your way to the back of the ride. Well Robin let her make a comment for a minute. First something that Elaine said and I want to put our where we are today in perspective when Thurgood Marshall stood here at Harvard Law School and work with the brown team. OK. Howard's. Look let me not make that mistake.

When he stood here with that team and came up with the strategy that was successful in Brown he really faced obstacles. Things are not great right now. We're looking at a Congress that is largely hostile. A president who is not supportive and supportive on this issue. We've got issues for sure but we are not facing the same kinds of obstacles. And we can meet this challenge. We need to stand up in the same way that he did it. I want to disagree with with my sister Rosa on one point. We've got a lot of things we can do before we raise the gun OK. There are a lot of things that we can do. We the if you look around look at the person sitting next to you in our community we've got incredible talent people of incredible Intel intelligence fortitude. We can meet this challenge and we need to do that on a number of levels one of them is the legal one of the things that is

most galling about these cases and the return to the Baki issue 25 years after it was decided was that CAIR and the other conservative organizations that are supporting them. Use the same strategy that was created by Justice Marshall and his team. OK so they're using our tools to work against us. We slept on that one. We can't continue to sleep in the same way. We've got to be creative in our strategies our legal strategies thoughtful. We've also got to be creative in the political strategies that we employ. And let me air our dirty laundry a little bit. We've got a look inside our own organizations. We need to make sure that we're doing what we need to do that we're building the alliances we need to build and that we are fostering the young leaders that we need.

We've got a lot of people laying wait the list goes on and on who's got experience in this struggle. The next challenge is to nurture people like machine like Rose. I think I'm the next youngest person saw include myself and. James to kind of come up and to take up this challenge. And I think together we can meet it but we've got to look closely at what we have and have not been doing. Otherwise it's not going to work. And. I'm taking over the moderator a little bit. Dr. Tatum wants to talk. Thank you. Thank you. I can't sit here as the president of a historically black college and you are black college Spelman College and speak for not only Spelman but other HBCU says Professor Ogletree did to say it's also important to invest in our own institutions. It is really is.

That any HBCU Kent that you can name including Spelman College is in need of greater financial support. If you look at an institution like Spelman for example cost twenty one thousand dollars a year. Eighty seven percent of our students are on financial aid as compared to Harvard University that is raising its tuition if you can believe that to almost thirty nine thousand dollars. Coming up next year and. At Spelman I'm going to use it just as an example to say the issue of affirmative action is about access it's not just that the elite institutions as has been pointed out but if those schools closed their doors to African-American students the HBCU currently in operation cannot absorb all of those students. We have to look at for example this year we had forty four hundred applications at Spelman for five hundred twenty five spaces for the incoming class. When you think about the schools there are a little over 100 in America 39 supported by the

USCF. That capacity is not going to be able to absorb all those students at Nevertheless when I think about the talented young women at Spelman they want to go to medical school they want to go to law school. So affirmative action is not just at the undergraduate level as we know it's also the law school it's also the medical school and it's about access for all of our students. But when you talk about post Supreme Court decision strategies I say we have to multiply infinitely our investment in our own institutions. We have 20 minutes for the question answer panel agree on basic ground rule if you can direct your question toward any two members of the panel. Yes or All right before I ask my question I'd like to preface this by saying I have not yet conceded the election in 2004 to Mr Bush. If I have to get up out of my bed at 5 o'clock in the morning I love my sleep to piggy back people to those polls he's not getting

re-elected. I'm sorry that you've conceded already Behold I have a history of election I was asking what we should do if he gets re-elected we go it all right. Well I was asking. I. I'm really glad it's flagged as flabbergasted as I am as as enraged as I am. The Supreme Court is even thinking about here in this case is even thinking that we're at any level where we can reconsider affirmative action. As the comments of many on the panel have suggested we've slept we had we should have had meetings like this when part position 2 and I was passed in California. We should have meetings like this when the Supreme Court whittled down the effect of Miranda and we never did it. So finally now we've gotten together and what I want to know from anybody who wants to speak on it is is what you guys are going to do to make sure that we fight this war after this battle is fought and won or lost so what are we going to do to make sure we keep fighting the little battles instead of conceding small grounds to the point where they feel they have enough power to do something like this any two people want to answer that.

Let's just use that machine but. You know what you've already asked the question by saying that we have to. We have to come together in a strategic way and have our public information meetings. You know we have to you know from from knowledge comes power. And that's so much our people are not aware of. And so there we have an obligation. We have an obligation to have our sessions to make sure our people are here the issues from our perspective that we need to hear from our peoples most likely we need the interaction and we need to find a way to have sustained interaction and that's that's on us to figure it out. Anyone else want to answer that the piggyback since you asked me personally many of the things have already been said but the only thing I will add is that for example one of the things we're currently doing. We have an alliance of black student professionals. That means the lawyers the doctors the optometrist the dentist

all the black students who are maybe one or two in a class we've already began to network and yell. At us.