Dr. Robert Williams Interview for Howard University Hospital Museum Project

The tape is rolling in the time that the Williams What. Why did you decide to become a physician. Well you know my interest in medicine goes back to when I was a child. And. An interest in all living things and really the function or the biology if you will of living beings and coming out of that interests and growing up right in the shadow of the Howard University Howard University Hospital over the years I've developed a sincere interest in pursuing medicine as a career. What was it like to be a medical student at Howard University in the early 60s and tell us who are some of the faculty then who most influenced you. Well it was an absolute wonderful time to be a medical student I think the faculty consisted of many giants of American medicine and indeed people who were. Very significant in the development of the University Medical Center as it's now. Known among those people would be of course some contemporary still functioning would be a doctor LaSalle the

fall who of course is now. The president of the American College of Surgeons and former president of the American Cancer Society These are a first for African-Americans and that's a signal of sort of accomplishment at that time we had other notable people Dr. W. Montagu Carr was just a famed anatomists anthropologist's publisher of over 600 articles in the medical literature and up to the Journal of the National Medical Association for some over 30 years. Doc your parents Mrs. Dr. Lloyd Dr. Ruth Lloyd who was here for many years as a anatomists and who we fondly called at in those years mama Lloyd because she literally took care of us educated us cared for us. And at that particular time there was such a tremendous. Pouring of not only information and teaching and they demand that you

perform but a caring attitude on the part of the faculty and all of the people associated with the medical school and with the university. Why don't you tell us more about Dr. William Montague Cobb and what made him such a special person and such an important figure in the history of medicine especially of African-American medicine. Well certainly Dr. Monica of course whent is a Washingtonian and lived throughout his life on Girard Street which is not far from this medical school in this medical complex. And he developed a career over some 50 years starting in at this institution when he returned after receiving a Ph.D. in his Indian degree. He had been an athlete and hearse and he came to the university and pursued a Ph.D. degree came back and chaired the department of anatomy for some 40 years plus I think it's very

significant that Dr. Karp was truly a renaissance man as I see it. I mean really a throwback historic figure. He taught us Anatomy my class my generation. But he also taught us humanistic values philosophical. The discussions were as common as the anatomy insisted that you learn the anatomy but he also made you a better human being in the sense of creasing your knowledge of the world and the interaction of society the issues of the day and provided he provided tremendous leadership in the development of physicians for over four decades. And I think if you total those physicians that ended up going throughout the world that he trained would total probably over 6000. He indeed was a giant an icon if you will. And one of the absolute masters at this holiday University Hospital and how the University College of Medicine he became internationally known.

I'm sure the numerous degrees he received honorary degrees is just. Too many to even list. But he was so well regarded by his contemporaries and by the medical establishment both nationally and internationally that it's it's hard even to quantify. I think of significance Dr. Carr was in the leadership with his IM Hotep. Organization that he developed in the 1950s I think you know the public needs to know that prior to about 1950s 59 they have about African-American physicians were limited in their access to hospitals. They imagine a situation where you practicing physician in an office you're seeing number of patients a day making house calls as was common at that time. And yet when your patient was ill had to be admitted to a hospital. There was only one hospital open to you to admit the patient and that was Freeman's hospital at that time. Now Dr. Karp with his organization the IM Hotep. Our

organization was a vehicle to force if you will a integration of the hospitals in the Washington D.C. area and he was president of IM Hotep the developer and the founder of that organization. He took that. That that approach further with the National Medical Association which is the organization of all African-American physicians in the country at that time made that a high agenda item. And of course in Atlantic City it was they even had protests if you will and which this issue was forged on a national basis resulting in a great deal of national integration of hospitals and opening up these hospitals to African-American physicians to care for their patients. Why did you choose a family practice as a medical specialty and tell us about your residency training here at Howard University Hospital. Well then call treatments I get right well I have finished.

Medical School and throughout the time of my training I have had a wide interests in the broad range of medicine and without really being interested in caring for one type of patient with one type of condition. I had a broad expanse of interests in wanting to care for patients with many conditions first of all and I wanted to have a personal connection with my patients I believe and frankly out some of this to the mesmerizing lectures given by the Montague Carr sitting at his at this just in front of him in which he would say that medicine of course was the practice of science but also of an art that is used to science as it has developed over the years to the benefit of the patient. But we also care for the patient and there is a saying that I think is true today that sort of a body is what I felt and that is saying by

Sir Francis Peabody 1927 in one of the major medical journal said that the physician who cares for the patient. Care for the patient best. Or some variation of that theme. Meaning that there is a personal connection. Patients do better when they feel there is a connection with their physician who brings to them not only the science but also the art of the practice of medicine. And I think family practice at least in my case embodied that and when I came through medical school there was no family practice as a discipline that had been general practice prior to that. But we here at Howard with the leadership of Dr. William Atari who is now on administrative a former chairman of the Department of Community Health and Family Practice developed this concept and this discipline in the specialty of family practice here at Howard University so it was one of the early programs to

be formulated and it continues to this day I think the residency program now is probably second in the number of residents that are trained and I think we're poised to go into the 21st century really having a legacy going all the way back to when I finished in the first one a finished program to now where the. Most of the training of physicians as we're going to the 21st century will be divided into two categories generalist physicians specialists physicians those generalist physicians. I think prototype would be the physician training from your practice a broad based flexible and really trained deeply into science the practice of medicine. So I think if we go back. My interest goes way back and continues to this day and I'm very happy to see the interest betrayed by young physicians who are going to practice in the 21st century. Howard's program was among the first out as I recall.

That's correct. How is our program I'm sure. I don't recall the exact number but I'm sure it was in the first five nationally. And there's another thing coming out of that that we were in the forefront of I know we where as an institution the first in the area and that is to develop a program to train physician assistants. And we started that program. My department Dr. Wimmer Torrey again and he sent me on a flight out to University of Washington I was I'll see of you on that flight data right here West. Really. Yeah and so we went out there and came back and coming out of that was a development of of a physician assistance program which exists on this day. Right and people don't know a lot we are pioneers both in family practice and the training and absolutely absolutely first in the country. We were certainly the first in the city of Washington in that endeavor. And you know it's really heartening to see that that program. Has Moved Sterling to a degree granting program in the college of Iowa health sciences and wonderful.

Dr. Carr will be enough to take it out of my clothes you have remained affiliated with Howard Stern. Dave you have remained affiliated with Howard University Hospital both as a practitioner here in the city and as a teacher. Why have you remained faithful and loyal to our university. Well I think the answer to that is very simple. Restate the question well it was a main. I've remained active here of how it's inside graduate from medical school I won't wait to be trained at the Walter Reed Hospital and such when I came here and finish my training. But you know my interests and support of how it goes back to when I was a kid walking through the campus and I

grew up right up the street here on every street with a basketball and walk me through and frankly I happened to wander into a hospital the old Freemans hospital with the doors open on the first floor and there was an obvious Italy a autopsy going on and with a physician called me and who was doing the autopsy now there was no air conditioning apparently available they also had the doors wide open and I wandered in with a buddy and we were just really fascinated by what was happening and the autopsy was continuing and he asked me the physician Well I asked him why why did this man die. And he told me well go over there and look at his chart and look on to social history. And under social history I read it off and I sit smoking one pack a day for 25 years he said. That's why he's here. I said well how could that cause his death. And he showed me it taken out the lung and he showed me a small lesion about that's about that size about one cm in size and I said how could that small

lesion that small to mine you say it's cancer. How could that have caused this man's death. And then he showed me the man's liver. And of course the cancer had spread and reputed to replace the liver to a mini tumors in his liver so that I never forgot that experience. He suggested as I walked away. Well why don't you go on and pursue since you're so interested why don't you come on to medical school some years down the road. I must've been about eight years old at that point. And so I continue my interest went to undergrad here and of course. Had a stint in the military and ended up in Vietnam with the 25th Infantry Division and then came back and pursued a medical career and I've remained here because I've been able to practice primarily have been a practitioner in the city. I had a couple of offices and I've always maintained the relationship with the College of Medicine because I enjoyed the exchange with my colleagues intellectually. I enjoy the stimulation of having young

doctors students in terms residence etc. and I think most of all that we are able to give the very best medical care to our patients and that has riveted me to this institution I've traveled all around been around many places in the world and I think that the care that's delivered the medical care the quality of the medical care delivered here how it is unsurpassed and every place that I've been. Like your mentor Dr. Cobb you are a medical historian a student of the history of medicine. Tell us what you know about the history of the Howard University Hospital. Well I mean if you go back to the beginnings of course Howard University Hospital has been here since the early since the early 60s will be the 1860s 1860 to really is the origin. And I think that the public might not be aware of the fact that it's got its origin by edict from President Lincoln who right after the Emancipation

Proclamation had said signed this and it had released of course many slaves who then were acts laves who migrated to the Washington D.C. area and Lincoln seeing all the approximately a hundred thousand or so ex-slaves congregated here in Washington living in horrible health conditions with typhoid fever tuberculosis dysentery just killing them just literally like. And mass felt that something needed to be done. He had of course recommendations coming from such esteemed people as Frederick Douglass as a matter of fact and established the Freedmen's Bureau and subsequently the Friedmans hospital came out of that. Lincoln signed the. Of course the initial charter but it was enacted by his successor President Johnson after Lincoln was assassinated. So the hospital had its beginnings in its early years. The hospital of course had only

one African-American on the initial staff and that's a doctor gusta who was a major in the in the military in the Union Army one of two African-American officers and physicians in the in the at that time in the Union Army. And Dr. Augusta ended up being a teacher of anatomy at Howard University College of Medicine for many years and also practice. And I might mention that he is buried right over in Arlington Cemetery as an ex union officer. But the hospital of course Freedman's over the many years. You know has some very great moments and not only providing care to just legions of people African American predominately who had no other place to go. So how it has always had its mission. The Howard College of Medicine the associated Freedman's

hospital to take care of the people who are in otherwise and many cases could not take it themselves. They had a haven a place of care high quality care at Freeman's hospital and as we come on down through the years I think it's of note to mention one of the great historic figures of the former chief of staff of the hospital by the 1894 the first person to perform surgery on a patient in this country and for the patient. When a patient's heart and for the patient to survive was done but by Dr. Daniel Daniel here we are faced and how could I visit this license. OK. Share it with us OK. Dr. Daniel Williams was the first chief of staff African-American and that's about an 18 94. He is notable for the fact that he's the first

physician surgeon to operate on a patient's heart in this country and for the patient to survive. He did that in Chicago and he really operated in a makeshift operating room if you will and the patient went on to survive some 30 years later that became and is recognized as the first time that the pericardium and the heart itself had been operated on him and the patient and the patient survived indeed the growing victim of the day by some of the famed surgeons of the day his contemporaries whereas that of the victim. The theory was and the conclusions not to operate on the heart and the patient happened to be one Mr. Cornish who had been stabbed in the chest in Chicago with a knife. And Dr. Daniel Williams proceeded to operate on him sewed up his heart if you will and the patient lived on for some 30 additional years.

Matta fact he came back to a little bit of historical significance came back to what then and here we are 25 years later with another war this time much much more minor and Daniel Williams is reported to have said to him you can't destroy my good work my friend. And when he went on to take everything and the patient lived on. In fact he lived down here Williams But they knew what was the also one of the founders of the National Medical Association in those years. And that of course organization has evolved into the National Medical Association which is the major professional organization for African-American physicians and now totals over 6000 physicians as I understand it members. You remember the movie from me. Tape as well. Sure you were around during the move from the old hospital to the new Howard University Hospital. Give us some recollections of those days and times.

Well you know how would the university hospital of course is that this is an outgrowth of Freeman's hospital which had been standing since the 1862 there about and the transformation to the new Howard University Hospital occurred in 1071 and indeed I was at the groundbreaking and much younger of course their wonderful day the transformation of the patients was very smooth and I don't think that was NOT be missed. Patients were transferred care was picked up. How would you know has first the hospital had grown out of Freeman's hospital and the transformation was indeed successful and of course Howard University Hospital continues until this day. You 500 bed hospital. State of the art in terms of its its. It's technology it's building and continues to be in the forefront in this area in the delivery of health care to remember what was on the grounds of the RU versity

hospital before it became the Howard University Hospital. Well you know I do. Again I grew up not far from here and I made my first few nickels parking cars for people who were going to the dead grifter stadium that's where the the DC baseball team play. And those of us who were kids were there go down and we would tell some of the people park in the cars or watch a car for a nickel and we hustle a few nickels and we'd get into the game so yes I remember the stadium being there. Griffith Stadium which was the home for the. American Washington Senators for many years. I remember also that doc Dr. Marion Mann another important figure that we haven't really spoken about helpful in transferring the patients over a guy his army unit involved do you remember anything about well in the transformation of patience and the transformation from Freeman's hospital to the Howard University Hospital Dr. Marion man who was the dean of the College of Medicine also

was a general in the military in the reserves utilized his military expertise to facilitate the transformation of her orderly way in fact utilize some military vehicles and all to effect that transformation. So if you had a coming together of some talent and the general command of course was very effective in the leadership of making that transformation smoothly. Absolutely. What further progress do you see in the future of the Howard University Hospital as we approach the new millennium. Well what further progress do I see for Howard University Hospital as we approach the new millennium. I see both challenges and tremendous opportunities. I mean the Howard University Hospital has its legacy that goes back to 1862 but it is poised here at and just before the beginning of the new millennium to

do greater things in the provision of care. I think it's how University Hospital remains a primary source of care medical care to the community of Washington D.C.. It's carried on its legacy and its mission of training young doctors predominately African-American minority physicians. And I think no institution in the country or in the world has trained as many physicians to practice of acts of American descent as it is a Howard University Medical School and how University Hospital the hospital has its missions of caring for patients in the HOC quality caring atmosphere the training of young doctors and other health care professionals and also the advancement of the science and the technology of delivery of medical care. I think the opportunity is there. I think the hospital is well poised to take advantage

of all of the opportunities that are going to present themselves as we go into the next century. Indeed there's been a major referred Firby-Smith of the hospital. And it's. It with its inference it's in the emergency room the emergency room in itself. It's a multimillion dollar endeavor. It's a state of the art emergency room. I don't think there's any area that's comparable to the cardiac catheterization laboratory has been redone and many areas of improvement and this is a continuing process. The hospital can say that it functions as a primary care facility if you will those physicians when primary care such as myself very comfortable here working in an integrated environment working with other physicians. It functions as a secondary facility in a sense that patients who have common sort of illnesses require hospitalization we take it those patients very well given the very best care. But in addition the Howard University Hospital is poised and it is a tertiary care

facility meaning it can do such hot technologically and scientifically based things in caring for patients such as organ transplant patients. We have the premia Organ Transplantation Program in the city in terms of liver transplants we have a long legacy of history headed by a doctor a calendar clock calendar and kidney transplant patients. We have a major cancer center here which is one of a few designated across the country. In fact I just left a tubal before presenting a patient this day to my colleagues who were in. Work at the Cancer Center. These are specialists who could bring the state of the art care to a patient who has cancer. We could do in our cooperation with the National Cancer Institute we can do anything that we need to do to improve the care and the potential outcome and cure or care for patients with cancer. So through our cancer center. So those are a couple of instances where we have exceptional

capability. Of course we will continue to carry out our mission of training young doctors and other health care professionals. In what ways has the Howard University Hospital changed during the time that you've been affiliated with it. And also in what ways has it remained the same. We'll conclude with that. Well how is Hospital housing how is Howard University Hospital. Remain the same. And then how is it met the challenges of change. Well I think it's done both very well. The legacy of Howard University Hospital remains intact. It's cared for since 1862. Just thousands and thousands of patients many of whom had no other place to turn. And it is also carried on its mission of training doctors training other healthcare professionals doing scientific research. And it's of course poised to go into the next century. Continuing these

efforts carrying out its mission and I think the opportunities are wonderful for the hospital to maintain its leadership role in delivery of care in this city. And of course nationally you know I think the public might be interested in the fact that there are very few institutions and of course how it is one where anywhere you would go in the world. African nations. Of Europe you would find a graduate of Howard University Hospital practicing there. So how university has truly been instrumental in providing care to the world community as well as a local aid cut. It was just me. Well you know that you might ask the question what was Howard University Hospital remain the same and true to its legacy. And then how has it really met the challenge of change always. We must build on what we've learned from the past and prepare

for the future. I think Howard University Hospital illustrates very well it's part of the Howard University Medical Complex and its Medical College University College of Medicine has really remained steadfast and caring for patients over since in 1860 two large volumes of patients many of whom had no other place to go. And how does remain true to its mission of training doctors some 6000 doctors who of course are now located in just about every country in the world. And of course it's remained Howard University Hospital its medical complex remain true to its legacy of scientific research. The Advancement of Science and advancement in the technological and scientific basis of caring for patients. So it's met that legacy continue that legacy. I think the hospital is in and the medical complex is in an absolute wonderful position to meet the challenges of change for the future. We have an excellent staff. We have

the legacy that I have mentioned and we have the infrastructure we have the capability we have all the scientific potential to give the best care to the patients who seek our services as we enter the 21st century. So indeed with Howard University Hospital stands ready to meet the challenge of the future right.