A Meeting with Mandela

And. I want. Them gone missing. Is sad to censure and so should the 19. We are saying so. Because sanctions were introduced for the purpose of dismantling up artists. And often making sure that everybody South Africa at black and white is able to time in his own future. Have. To. Raise. The. Money you. Want to thank you. The. Meeting with law is made possible by grants from the Robert Wood Johnson Jr.

charitable trust the Commonwealth Fund the Carl C. icon foundation the Geraldine R. dodge foundation the Jacob Burns foundation the Rockefeller Foundation the Carnegie Corporation of New York and by the members of 13. From Book Council on Foreign Relations in New York City. A meeting with Nelson Mandela with Charlayne Hunter-Gault. Good evening I'm Charlayne Hunter-Gault. During the 27 years of Nelson Mandela's imprisonment many if not most of the people in this audience have been intimately involved in the South African saga either as journalists and writers as academics business people or as activists they pursue their interests despite the fact that one primary source was off limits to them. Tonight we have brought them and that source together and we will spend the next hour filling in some of the gaps that the years of imprisonment and more recently distance have created. Mr. Mandela welcome. Pleasure.

We want to explore tonight your vision of a future South Africa and how you see getting there. And I'd like to start just by asking you about perhaps a very important meeting that took place today with you an American businessman. You reassured them about the security of private investments and opposed to partake in South Africa. What do you say to those who say that money is not going to flow to a society in transition especially after the massive withdrawal of funds that has taken place over the past decade or so. We do not know what the response of the international community is going to be. When we called for assistance in building that yourself. But what we know is that the international community has got their exhaustless to help us if they wanted to see

a known trace of South Africa after the dismantling of a party. Were they attempting to get you to reassure them that the society would be stable. It is not wrong on the part of businessmen who wanted to assure themselves that when democratic changes take place in a country their investment will be saved. There is nothing unusual as far as that is concept and I think that we have been able from our side to assure them that we are Kinley away of the importance of assuring the businessmen that their investments will be safe. Companies that have argued that it's better to stay and use their leverage inside the company to affect change also have argued that after a company has withdrawn generally there's no coming back. How do you respond to that argument and how much does the country need that investment.

Firstly the argument that by companies that it is better for them to remain in South Africa. Flies in the face of the conceit that the opinion of opinion makers in South Africa. Their decision that companies should cease to disinvest is that of the political cutters ations in the country. And other Democratic formations. It is the opinion of the trade union movement in the country which guides the interest of the workers themselves. It is also the evil thingy and of religious organisations of the country and it is the opinion of professional associations. What right has any company then in that situation will say it is better for the country for them to remain. They are looking at the matter

purely from the point of view of their own interests. We don not set that or we have to be guided by the views of people would don't consider the interest of the country as a whole but of their own. From the point of view of the prophets. Joe Davidson of The Wall Street Journal you were covering that business meeting this morning. I mean would you like to follow up. Mr Mandela you indicated this morning that nationalisation is one tool among several options that may be considered in the end he restructured South African economy. Can you tell us what those other options are and how will the Big be decided which option will be used. One option was to just buy a business. Are forming a band which would try to channel funds and resources towards a new South Africa. That is another challenge. Another option. You've also indicated that you are open to suggestion I mean is this a

policy that is in in process of formation now in which you are taking stock of the situation in taking advice from a wide variety so long for something new. Those who have followed the political developments in our country know that this is no novel attitude on our part. We have made it clear right from the beginning that we are looking at various options. State participation is just one of those options. Frank voyages treasurer of the state of Connecticut Mr. Mandela's treasure state of Connecticut I serve as the sole trustee of an aid to have billion dollar pension fund that is now fully divest it. During that period of time I had the occasion to visit with a number of leaders of the major corporations in America who did in fact say to me they felt strongly as a follow up to an earlier question and felt rather strongly that their presence there indeed helped South African's

provision of jobs health care education. And then in fact there would draw would cause more suffering. Now I realize that that argument at least was not compelling to me and I hear that it's that wasn't compelling to you. But I'd like to have you comment further on that. What I don't think I have anything to comment about but I have sat satisfactory on this question. If you wanted to suggest anything more you offered to do so. So much of the attention since you've been here Mr. Mandela has been on the question of nationalization which you've given quite extensive response to. But there are some other aspects of the whole question of redistribution of wealth that I think my Cluff wants to pursue. Yes Mr. Mandela for the most of the last century. Black South Africans have been prohibited from owning land in 87 percent of the country. And the question of redistributing land is obviously going to be at the top of your agenda. Zimbabwe

a country to the north is now ten years past independence and is still having difficulties dealing with this question. Do you have any models in mind as to how to deal with the land question after the end of apartheid. And what we're position on this question. We don't know work on the basis of Margot's. We work on the basis of the needs of our people and our country. Secondly we don't think that this is a question that is going to be settled often not it's a matter which sort of received very proper attention. The viewers off specs on the bottle what we are determined to do is directly address the problems. How long it will take will depend on the conditions exist another time where do I press the question. I want to turn briefly now into the whole area of negotiations. Part of the problem you are faced with now is getting the South African government to meet

all of the preconditions that have been laid out for the beginning of negotiations but there are. Other problems that complicate the climate. Earl Caldwell you wanted to address one. Yes. Mr. Mandela yesterday you mentioning quite surprisingly that the ANC was involved in talks with some of the right wing conservative groups in that South Africa. I would like to know if you were personally involved in those talks and what were some of those groups and what was it that motivated you to are necessitated to take place. This is not a question. That's not it. The question of discussing with specific groups in the Congress on the question of the peace process is the responsibility of the organization. It makes no difference who is there. It is those who are authorized by the organization to take part in that process

and it is the organisation that is important not individuals. Second we don't think it is in the interest of solutions in South Africa to be publicizing precisely with whom we are discussing and what we said. It should be sufficient for you to know that this is one of the problems which we are addressing. If I could just follow up on that Mr. Mandela as you know there have been reports of death threats to top officials of the African National Congress including yourself on your arrival back in South Africa. Are those groups do you consider people who make those kinds of threats to be beyond the pale. Are those groups also groups with whom you think you can enter into some kind of negotiation I mean or have you just do you write these off or do you reach out to them away.

I do not think an offer thats tied for us. To my bosses here I've given me sufficient work which occupies my attention from morning to sunset. I don't think about death threats at all. I have not examined the question of whether the paper from whom these threats come out beyond the pale. But one thing I know is that it takes government itself and has created a monster. They are the people who have been down one izing day and see all along they are the people who have trained at the police that the idea is to protect at the white minority against a threat or from the African National Congress and similar organizations so that if today despite the fact that they themselves now believe that there should be a complete change in their policy.

Nevertheless they are dealing now with the money stuff which they have created and it has to be expected that these threats should be made. But again you will be making a mistake if you think that our people beyond the pale discussions. It has been the established discussions can bring about a fundamental change in the attitudes of individuals and admitting that we have had with the gov or peace process shows that you can change people's ideas. But I'm talking to me. But who do you think can harness that monster that you're talking about. Whose responsibility is it. Your men and the responsibility of dealing with the monster. You know it is the responsibility of every body would think that the country should be mobilized around the question of peace.

Jennifer Whittaker I believe you have a flip side of that question. Yes. Mr. Mandela I'd like to ask you the question that was most often asked to me by Americans on a trip that I took through the south and the Southwest in March right after your release which was in a way a kind of celebration of your release talking about South Africa. That question is as your country moves. We hope away from the white violence against blacks which is the apartheid system. A shadow may be falling across to that process and also across the future of South Africa in the shape of black political violence. And I wonder what the ANC and you as its leader can do to curtail or prevent black political violence between blacks. Your must understand first until a part that has been dismantled where will continue

having problems of the nature you refer to these problems. Essentially the creation of the apartheid system. But if you are thinking about the violence that is going on now it is true that the element of black fighting black is that bad. But this is a very on important aspect. What is worrying us now. And the problem before the country is the fact that the state organs are being used to and coverage and aggravate the violence between black and black. As I have pointed out on countless occasions in regard to the violence in the tub we have vote as specific a point at question because we have said to him you have as strong as

sufficient and well equipped to police force and army. Can you tell us why you have been allowed to for four and a half years violence to continue in which almost 4000 people have been killed without crushing the violence you have taken no views of the visible steps in order to end this violence. What is the reason he has found it very difficult to answer the question. We have however provided him with the answer we have sir that you have now allowed your police to try and eliminate the ANC and its membership because your regard to the ANC as the main threat the white domination that is your problem. And that is why the government has decided

not to interfere with the violence that is going on. That is the problem that faces. But what does it say for Mystic clerics declared professed intentions to as he says go for with this irreversible process. I mean are you saying that the government has an ace in the hole in allowing the violence in the tonneau must be remembered that these are strategies which were decided by the government almost four years ago and they're out of control or fall. We decided on the peace process before we convinced them that it was necessary for the government to sit down and talk with us. They may now be trying to prevent this. But as I have said that they have created a monster which they can no longer control. If the government doesn't intervene chooses not to intervene or is incapable of intervening. How else can end violence be dealt

there. Well that is a problem which we have got press but we are putting pressure on the government. But do something about it. Because as long as the government remains in active duty at this violence the peace process itself is in danger. Does the pressure involve your calling up Mr. Dick Clarke and saying look you better do something about this are there more direct other direct means of we're not discussing the matter with that subject that I just pressure sufficient enough. I you because we are involved in the peace process and we are saying to him if you won this you would have to solve this matter. Have you had any encouraging signs at all on this question and you know when I don't want to discuss what we have placed the matter before them. ED BRADLEY Mr. Mandela what is the acceptable outcome for you and your organization of these ongoing negotiations

with the government does that mean one person one vote. And what is an acceptable timetable for you to achieve your goals. There war issue in South Africa is about one person one vote. That is that Dumond there for which people have paid with their own lives. And it is that demand over which there can be no compromise. Wade demanded that the new South Africa and a solution should be the acceptance of the principle of one man one vote. But we can work on the basis of timetables. It is sufficient to say that tab both of the ANC as well as the government feel that it is urgent for us to reach a settlement but we can't indicate sigils as to when an agreement will be reached. It is the

repeat sufficient that we are both. Keen to reach a solution as soon as possible. Are you at all concerned about the rising expectations for a solution and the demand that seems to inexorably arise to get a quick solution. Plus there are also demographic realities I mean there are economic problems there's a population that's outdistancing outpacing the stagnating economy I mean are there I understand you saying that there are no time pressures but are there not external factors that that mitigate towards a quicker solution a solution sooner rather than later. We regard that the maintenance of sanctions as the quickest way of helping us to reach a solution. That the government has agreed to our demands that we should sit down and talk is partly due to the

internal pressure the must problems that are being conducted by the people of South Africa as well as by international pressure. And we feel therefore that the maintenance of sanctions we're really able to reach this goal as soon as possible because both the ANC as well as the government. I worry about the state of our economy. We want our current economy to function in a healthy. We want a healthy economy and we don't want to Iraq economy to be shut up bike by sanctions as is happening today. But we as the liberation movement are prepared. To face the situation of the economy being hurt by sanctions in order for us to reach the greater goal of your body to the peoples of. I read an interview in a South African magazine with the British ambassador

who said that this process has to be culminated within three to five years. Otherwise And this is liberally paraphrasing him the South African economy and the conditions in the region would be such that there might be just an irreparable situation. I mean three to five years was that was his timetable. Do you. Well you can go and interview around with and find out his reasons for saying so when I'm not looking at going to five years certainly not three to five. We are what three to five really two five year old hears. Well we are not even looking that way if we're able to reach a solution tonight or those three. Would you let us know so we could break that on the air. You and the African National Congress repeatedly call for

non racial nonsexist democracy in South Africa. There are people in this country who have concerns about what you mean. Among them its director. Yes Mr. Mandela history has taught us over and over again that there is no transition more difficult more delicate than that from a revolutionary force to a governing party. Assuming that your aspiration for a one man one vote South Africa which would clearly mean a government in which the ANC had a preponderance of power assuming that what what are your ideas about the means or the mechanisms for ensuring personal individual liberty to those people black and white

who are opposed and will be opposed to your policies. Well I am not a steward and all of what it takes in a university. I do not know. What your reasons for saying that it is difficult to get a transformation to a nonracial society. I would have thought that the example of Namibia shatters that argument altogether. Because that they have been able to establish a nonracial society without much difficulty. That government of national reconciliation is functioning very well and is supported by all population groups and that to us. This is something natural. We published our policy document in 1955 and that documented. These are not on all forms of racial disease. Where the national groups the

population groups of South Africa are put on the same status and the way we declare any form of racial is in a criminal offense. This is supported by the people of South Africa. We have a substantial number of whites in our movement already who are participating in policy decisions and who are participating in food without any discrimination. They factor that in our delegation to Cape Town where head all population groups in our country shows how serious we are about and nonracial South Africa which we hope will have their own population groups whereas that the white delegation was drawn from the whites and from the whites only from the African. That shows again that we have long been addressing the question of a change from a racial

society to a non racial society. We don't expect any difficulties about this but the thing was meant when the serious talks get on the way whenever that is. The South African government has said that it will come to that negotiating table with the controlled and mechanism of state that have the wealth wealth of the nation they hope to have groups like the colored city Asian perhaps even Buthelezi. What might be your strengths and the strengths of the ANC when they come to the bargaining table in addition to the influence possibly over international sanctions. Where are not talking about question of strength in the process of negotiation. In regard to the question that you raise all of that we're concerned with is that the people who are going to negotiate a nonracial Constitution must be properly mandated through democratic elections. We

say that the people would negotiate should have let it to AC should have credibility so that that decision can enjoy the support of the overwhelming majority of the population that can only be done if that are normed racial and democratic elections in the country. The attitude of the government they're free to say what they like but they have to defend that in the course of our negotiations and the weird thing that to we have a powerful case. The man you're talking about where the electorate elected an inventor Grauman's when the ANC was banned. When our political and our activists were forced into exile and others thrown into jail when the leadership that was inside the country was good. So we

haven't we had no chance whatsoever of participating in the elections the only way of deciding who was on the leaders who should negotiate is that they should be elected. In non-race on the elections in the country I think we have quite a powerful case which the government can never observe. Throw my camera man into a little bit of a tizzy here but I think that the most appropriate follow up at the moment may come from libertine you had a question on the homelands I believe yes there is supposed to be a great deal of power in the so-called homelands in the South African government has spent vast amounts of money setting up that which may be of those which may be puppet governments. How might the ANC and other groups of goodwill deal with those who have been given power during the next few weeks months

years. The very people themselves have either solved or are solving the question you know where have I for all of these so-called homelands which are constitutionally legally independent. In three of these areas in fact in four of them there have been coups in the trans guy and the CIS guys these coups have led to the establishment of democratic governments which are working with the ANC. Enough said. Homeland or ponder start an independent homeland. There was another cool which succeeded by the man who led that cool was him side of point used by the South African police. He wants to see us you want to discuss with us but of cause there are

problems in the sense that the people on the ground do not want to because of his record but that there has been a coup in that area in the fourth area will put us on it. Again if people took action and overthrew more of what is just among rock then they overthrew him a year was installed by South African forces. But as far as the people are concerned in his area they overthrew it. That is the faster lead of the statement I have made that the people themselves have solved or are solving that problem. Then there are six home lives which are not independent but self-governing. Five of these are working with the ANC.

Of course the people in these homelands asked standing up and fighting against what they considered to be discredited leaders. We are saying the way are prepared to work with these leaders. We are prepared to forget the past for the sake of presenting a united front on the question of mobilizing the country for negotiations. What you are saying to them settle your problems with the people in your areas. We are not going to be used as a means that the proper tactic discredited leaders. Sadly our problems with the people on the ground they are doing so but we are also discussing with them. If we went down to Cape Town to see the government. We called a meeting of this leaders five of them and a We briefed them on what we were

going to discuss with the government. After the meeting in Cape Town we are again calling them and prove them on what transpired in Cape Town and they fully supported this. Not only that they accepted the A and C to use their own terminology as the mouthpiece of the black people in the country. So the question of the power of the homelands. There may be an overstatement because. It does not appear to me that that they are able to last if we don't want them to exist in this particular situation. But that that is not necessary it will decide because they are now working with us and the well Question of the homelands is one that in the light of the new situation of our relations with the homelier neighbors will be a subject of discussion and negotiation.

Rita Houser date United Nations you made a very eloquent plea on behalf of the Palestinian cause and the desire of the Palestinians for a state of their own and in the last few days here in questions in New York you've made very clear that you fully support the right of Israel to exist within secure boundaries new coordinates with the UN resolutions. I'd like to ask you that in light of the apparent failure now of the United States efforts to get a dialogue between the Palestinians and the Israelis and the Armenian ominous build up of arms in the region what would you suggest as practical next steps to advance that peace process. Well to me the only solution of the problem in the Middle East is one of peace for they. Are all partners to sit down and Hamada out the differences and try to effect a negotiated settlement. It is the only solution that is

open to the PLO and these other nigga and I would urge them to go with it. How surprised have you of him have you been about the furor added to your remarks about the Palestinians and that whole situation in Cuba and in the flap that has preceded followed in the wake of those remarks that have been a surprise to you. You know I was more astonished than surprised. You're almost certain to remember that when in 1960 that lady does like all of a tumble. The young man sitting at the back there big went out of the country. One of the first steps that they took was to visit the West and systems in the costs

of that visit. They came to the United States of America and asked for help. They did not get that help. They went to Cuba and they killed on the spot pled support and actually gave it long before the West could do anything persistence. I am surprised that any body should now expect us to condemn Cuba to condemn the PLO which has been working with us right from the beginning and helping us in our problems. It is totally unrealistic. It is that typical attitude of countries which are really do not approach the problem of South Africa. From their point of view of the liberation struggle in South Africa which approaches these problems from their point of view of their own interest what to that view once is that the African National Congress and the liberation movement in South Africa should be

used for the purposes of conducting vendettas. Enemies of the West. We must join that vendetta in order to advance the interest of the West. That will not do you an. Elite. For the better part of an hour and a half you were on Ted Koppel's Nightline program last night talking about a variety of subjects. And in the front pages of some newspapers today the remarks that you made within the course of that hour about this matter were played as the lead items Why do you think that is. I mean why do you think that kind of attention is being paid to this issue. Go to the editors of those papers. Does that disturb you. I have not even seen the reports but there

they were have kept me so busy with people the reports of their Does that disturb you. Well I hear it for the first time just as I was when this few orders. I'm going to throw the camera man into another tizzy but Tammy Holtzman had a question about what I perceived to be a new phrase within the context of your proclamations. The part that deals with the nonsexist nonracial South Africa. Your question to me Mr. Mandela at a recent meeting of African women from around the continent. Women from several places talked about how they had participated in the struggle to free their countries only to be pushed into the background after independence. And several delegates warned women from Namibia and South Africa not to let the same thing happen to them. You've spoken of your hope for a

nonsexist as well as a non-race to South Africa. But what can you do to guarantee that women will be able to play an equal role in the south africa of the future. Well the Ariens has opened its doors to women. In accordance with the declaration that we've made to which you have referred in the delegation that went to Cape Town for example there were no less than two women. That shows our attitude on this question. We will replace the no limitations whatsoever on the right of the women to take part. Add in the political activities of the country and of course in other spheres we will encourage that. How this will be done will be determined by the issues that are arising if any issues are arise which may airport obstacles in the paths of the women at the participate

for you in running the country. Deal with it as the problems arise. But our policy is perfectly clear and we are already implementing it. Anthony Lewis of The New York Times. Mr. Mandela and President the cleric is in trouble with white voters losing them to the right. You've advised him while here that the best thing to do is to open the vote to everybody and that that would solve his political problem. Are you suggesting in that. And I mean this seriously that in future he could be the part of a government with the ANC that somehow there would be a coalition of the National Party and the ANC or there'd be a role for both of you in a future democratic government. We are not thinking in terms of the individuals. We are thinking in terms of ideas and cornices what we are saying is that. The only is the notion that the problems of South Africa

is the introduction of a non-place on society. If most of the tech takes advantage of the four years which is still going to remain in power and extends that the vote to all South Africans. Then the idea for which the National Party and the ANC are working that idea that there will be a short of a success and I. And all those who stand for that idea will be in an invincible position and that right will be rendered completely useless. That is the message were put in for the president of the new South Africa might be all of a tumble. It might be a decline it might be a problem to get there or Mr. Sassoon.

I know the man that is there that rests on the people of South Africa themselves. I'm allowed to use them and the question of apartheid in South Africa has preoccupied the attention and energy of the rest of the African continent like no other issue. Now with independence of Namibia and the prospect of a liberated South Africa. You are part of the continent has become a spot of hope in a continent which is going through a very difficult time. What would you see as the possible impact on the rest of the African continent over South Africa which is freed from apartheid. There are lots of very important question. South Africa.

Because of its a developed economy exist. And infrastructures could be the powerhouse not only of our region but of the greater part of Africa. A liberated South Africa in the first place. Be a member of Sadik which is already examining the question of Portland's other sources in our region. So that had the whole region should profit from those pool of polluted sources you made explained site I just hear you. While I'm sure Sadec is known to most of the people here please don't despise them. Little C we have and we have a larger audience out there that may not realize that it's an economic organisation aimed at stimulating. Oh yes whether you're proud of what forces.

And. Portends shallowest of the potential which would immediately be developed. By and liberated South Africa driving side is tremendous is immeasurable. And that would stimulate economic development. In our age and possibly in Africa but we don't want it to all of us state the benefits that would derive from the liberated South Africa joining Sud because most of the problems of Africa it must be remembered it must always remember. And legacy of the old days. And that because Africa has not got sufficient resources. It's going to take years and lived on or even generations before they can overcome those legacies. But a liberated South Africa can play an important role in the economic development of our region as well as parts

of Africa. We are entering the last phase of this very interesting program Mr. Mandela. I'm very sorry to hear. But we're happy with it. We haven't finished yet. Jackie Mitchell Johnson in a post apartheid South Africa how would you propose to break down some of the old illogical biases which would prevent policymakers and businesses from taking a fresh look at the political and economic situation. Well your question is a very broad one. I can understand the person bought may miss the exact point on which you want to comment. As I understand it the tool super powers the US and the Soviet Union are now trying to uphold the Cold War. They are busy on the question of promoting international peace.

They seem to have come to an understanding that that there must be no conflict. They turned on specific problems in particular regions and at least the two leaders today. President Obama and President Bush they seem to be addressing the problems of the world to very seriously and are still making progress. And I hope that by the time South Africa gets a liberated. We will not have to worry about these problems at all. Are you at all concerned that the attention has shifted now with this rapprochement toward eastern Europe and other parts of the world possibly at the expense of Africa. Well I don't know. It has been said that the changes that have taken place in Eastern Europe where do

you mean that Ted the West or with no economy or with investing in those countries and there will be not no sufficient funds to help the developing South Africa. I hope this is not the case. It is of course quite correct or for the West to try and assist. The countries in Eastern Europe who have got problems of their own bought will hope that will not be at the expense of assisting in developing a nonracial South Africa after Apartheid has been dismantled. Very briefly we want to look at some of the concerns around US policy Richard moose. I believe you have a question Mr. Mandela. You've stressed during your visit the importance which you attach too to economic pressure to the United States maintaining your sanctions on South Africa. You undoubtedly will will have

succeeded in stimulating new debate on that subject sanctions debate often takes on a life of its own here in the United States. Is that goes forward. Are there other are there other actions that you have considered that you think the United States should take toward South Africa at this moment. Well our main message is the maintenance of sanctions by the international community and by the United States but they cannot and that is the message that we are going to give that is that request that we're going to made to President Bush one of Mitt we are also concerned about the rehabilitation of the almost beyond a thousand political ads I will have to come back to the country. Ordered housing and jobs and educational facilities for the children.

We are also rebuilding the African National Congress which has been bad over 30 years and this is a very difficult task because how much success we're having in rallies and public meetings and who are drawing crowds which have never been seen in the east of the country. But if those cars are not functioning through a disciplined and organized political strife struggle. Where there is a machinery that through which there can be a rift we can fail very badly in our aims and objectives and it becomes necessary therefore for us to have the results is to rebuild to the ANC. But even more equally important is the fact that there we are no more delight as a gold country.

For peace that is a task which now puts us as the ANC in a totally different category from that in which we where we got it. Many people regard it as a political party pure and simple and they refuse to assist because of this approach. In fact we have never been a political party. We have only just been a political organization. We have almost been a parliament of the people in this country where people from different walks of life and with different political affiliations that are members of the organization joined only by the determination to oppose or racial oppression. Now I am going to ask the people of the United States to give us the resources to be able to move to this needs and to carry out his duties as medellín are also faced with the question of young people leaving the country because of the state of black education which is fighting

fear that was that of the whites and they are seeing they are compared to yours. In the neighboring states receiving better education that they receive in their own country. Then of course there's a question of violence and all of these have. Fostered large numbers of our young people to leave the country in search of education abroad in the schools established by the errancy. But we have not God that is ourselves and the world like it the people of the United States to help in this regard because we will be a quippy our youth for their duties as future leaders. Do you also want the United States government to help in this resource garnering you know we don't want to let us want to discriminate we do not. What would you ask President Bush when you ask him a not a just cause here what I would ask President Bush I would without doubt it to him and you can ask me that question after the case.

Let me just look in the last couple of minutes that we have to let you get your feelings about the coming months ahead. Where do your greatest anxieties lie. Well I don't think I've got any anxiety at all. I am of course and shows that this settlement is reached as soon as possible in our country. But I am optimistic. Our hopes on not invade and the efforts of the success to which we have received so far. Especially having a god that with the first meeting between there and said the governor. It has raised our hopes given me in the more difficult phase where we will now be negotiating. For a non racial constitution that we are might away

make progress which will enable us to reach a solution Islamist forces. When you see the continuing struggle that America is waging to overcome racial discrimination despite the existence of a constitution it speaks in terms of equality. And despite the fact that there are civil rights laws on the books that outlaw discrimination what if any lessons do you think the American experience holds for South Africa and indeed vice versa. Well we will look at the way in which the United States has handled these problems. We are aware of the complaints by black leaders in this country that they are not getting their rights which I got on to it in the American Constitution.

We are aware of complaints of that racialism still exist in this country. Our own position is very clear. We condemn of racialism where ever it is to be found in the world. And there we sympathize with the Stand by black leaders of this country in demanding that they should be able to take advantage of their rights which the law gives them. We stand to fully behind them in that regard. We will however a new look at the way in which America has tried to solve its problems including the question of race has it in its constitution and and new provision which makes it possible for the government limited to racialism it will be useful to us. And that is what will we do. Would look at the constitutions of Bena countries

in productive some of the button States of America. Well Mr. Mandela we know that you have a long road ahead of you and we thank you for being with us and wish you all the best in the road ahead not just out of. The. The extent. They are.

Meeting with Mandela is made possible by grants from the Robert Wood Johnson Jr. charitable trust like Commonwealth Fund like Carl C. icon foundation the Geraldine R. dodge foundation the Jacob Burns foundation the Rockefeller Foundation the Carnegie Corporation of New York and by the members of 13. This is PBS. A.

Major funding for roots of rhythm with Harry Belafonte was provided by the National Endowment for the Humanities the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Ford Foundation. And by the following. Add the financial support of viewers like you. Additional funding was provided by the following. Hello. I'm Harry Belafonte.