Evening Exchange; Aftermath of L.A. Riots

Federal troops may be pulling out of riot torn L.A. the district's minority set aside programs in trouble and is the KKK responsible for the death of the newspaper editor. We'll discuss these issues and much much more next on evening Ixnay. A very good evening to you and welcome to evening exchange news analysis I'm James Adams sitting in for the vacationing Kojo Nandi. The flames are out and the cleanup is well underway in Los Angeles. President Bush traveled to South Central L.A. this week and got an eye and earful from residents and business people. The president said and I quote now he wanted to get the heartbeat of the community. Joining me tonight are our journalists excuse me journalist Vincent McGrath of The Washington Times. Bob Ellison is

with us from the Sheraton Broadcasting Network. And independent journalist Brenda Wilson. Welcome. This is a national story but it is also a local big city story and that the problems we're seeing in Los Angeles are those that are also shared by many inner cities around the country. Vincent do you get the sense from the president's visit that he. Feels or felt what was going on and I don't know. I get the feeling the president just read I discovered America. We see him walking through devastation in L.A. we see him going to churches. We see him in a very controlled environment meeting with some of the people in and around South Central. But there was no sense from what I got from watching on TV like many people that he really understood the anger. I mean and the pain and the anguish that sort of causes and it's been lingering on for some 20 years. And I and he he gives the impression that all of this is sprung up two weeks ago and I don't think that your

feelings on it. Is the president. Detached to the extent that he does not understand the feelings sensitivities of those who died during what is it George Bush sales and you know I'm not going to try to second guessed it. All I can do is judge by what he has done in the past what he's done up until now. I assume that essentially he's going through a ritual that anyone in the position of leadership whether they've been you know fulfilling that leadership or not has to do it was what he had to do I mean you don't allow something like this to take place in your country before the eyes of the world. I mean that's sort of painful searing sort of experience. What the whole world watching and not at least demonstrate some concern so essentially it was a demonstration. I mean they had to balance that against his own political interests. How does this sort it out. And so what you ended up with was the sort of scene where I mean trying to placate all the constituencies without really addressing the whole thing. I mean if he had one particular feeling about it you couldn't tell from

his approach to it because it was all very orchestrated. You know the fire department and so everything that got said to one department was not quite what was said. You know it had a different spin. By the time it got to the you know young black children that I mean the young children I don't know if they were just black the faces on the TV were black but I doubt it could have been a mixed club. You know by that what he said to them in that community was different. So everywhere he lived not there was. Different different than. What it suggests is that he does not have one particular thing that he fills. I mean he knows better than to sort of you know go into those communities and to deliver them a Law and Order full of rhetoric. But that's not what they want to hear that he needs to have. He needs to address their pain. So he sort of mixes it all up he gets to do the fireman the policeman you know at one place and he gets to do the community at another place. And essentially what you end up with is the same division that is in some sense responsible for you know what took place.

Bob Ellison you cover the White House you've traveled with the president on occasion. Do you sense from the reaction of White House staff. That. That the president genuinely was in control. Of the situation this time at the White House or simply reacting to the fire. I did not get the impression that there is any degree of control nor understanding let's go back to March 1991 when the Rodney King tapes came out at that point. At that point. President Bush said that the Justice Department will investigate aggressively go the extra mile he said he was sick and he said there's no way that you could excuse what happened there. OK now we go back to the verdict of this stunning verdict. And what's the president of the United States merely says the Justice Department will continue its investigation. Now over the time we have a presidential spokesperson Marlin Fitzwater. Reaching back and blaming Lyndon Johnson for what happened in Los Angeles we have President

Bush getting choked up in Los Angeles he's only he was there for less than two days. Imagine what it's like for someone who spent their entire life there. He wisht through Los Angeles. Supposedly to listen. However. Before Los Angeles he was talking enterprise zones and that's what he's been talking about. While he was in Los Angeles. Again. Let's go back to another big story this week with respect to this whole and you touched on it Bob. The fixing of blame reaching back in the time and saying the social programs of the 60s did not work and that was the response of that was that the problem here. The president also I should say in his defense of that wasn't the entire focus of of his program and his plan of his understanding. But he did say the social programs of the 60s were in fact responsible what what's your reaction to what you know. You know when they tried to pull back on and say we're asking we're really we meant but it is really what they meant because Bush said so.

I mean Texas just last year in a commencement address. So now then then of course they pull back and say that's not what we really meant because we don't want to be political like Bill Clinton who's going to L.A.. I take all that with a grain of salt. I mean. The there are programs clearly that have worked and even they came back and say well you know headstart works and AFDC works. I think what you're seeing is an administration trying to all of a sudden find figure out what an urban policy is and what their domestic agenda after three years after 12 years really. What is really wrong with America domestically and they don't know so they start going back to blame the liberals in the blame Congress when in fact they have been in control for 20 years and they should have some something out there. After all this time to address these. I just think essentially. This country I mean I spent a lot of time in the last week and a half trying to get a fix on exactly what I was feeling about the whole experience and realizing that I did not want to have certain conversations

that some of them sort of felt and to fell into the category of sort of a. You just knew they were coming. It's like you could predict them the same way you could've predicted the riot. And they are as weak kneed and it's useless in some respects as the riots. Not so much useless as the riots because I don't think they were necessarily useless and I realize that may be a difficult position I'm putting myself in. I don't think this country has come to grips with particularly white Americans with how black people in this country essentially feel about some of the things that happened to them on its streets. But we know that it goes on all the time. Now you can react to those young men in the street primarily young men in the street who are looting those stores and you can I mean it's very clear what their life is about. And there's a reason why it has been allowed to go on. And there's a fundamental level of is that reason. Twelve years of President Bush in the end as you know it's not what is not a Democrat. It is it is it is a siren going.

It is Americans who elect President Bush. It is Americans who don't really want to know anything about it. It's Americans who cannot respond to these people or look them in the face when they pass them on the street. So no I mean if you're going to look at Bush or Carter because you have to understand you know this sort of thing happened when President Carter was in office and he dared try to go to Liberty City right after the riots in Liberty City and was rocked. I mean you know they threw stones at him as he was trying to leave the neighborhood. So essentially I'm not sure it's one administration or another. It's a very fundamental problem that I mean the society wants to affix the blame entirely on the black community. It won't recognize the prejudice it won't recognize what people are up against trying to function within the society in the best way that they possibly get. Getting no support very little support. And they've been told and they've been told time and time again. And yet when they go after programs whether it's in Jimmy Carter or Democratic administrations whether it's Bill Clinton who thinks that you know you don't throw good money after bad when they never threw money. At

these situations to begin with I don't think any other society would have allowed conditions in some of these communities to continue the way they have all this time. Bob Ellison the White House has been accused as we started off saying of trying to affix blame with respect to the social programs of the 60s what about the Democrats in Congress. We haven't heard many voices saying that the Democrats controlled the Congress for a number of years. Equally seemed to be unaffected or unconcerned about what was happening in urban America because little happened is read as a result of their. Their being there. Well I mean during the Reagan Bush years the Democrats some Democrats in Congress did go along with Reagan. Initially and there has not been this this vital push that is needed. This pressure against the White House but to go back to one. The social programs castigated by the administration they have not mentioned one program that they have on that on their list as a failure. Bush has not sought the repeal of any of

these programs when he goes out and he tells them when he goes to Los Angeles and says aid is coming through the Small Business Administration that is one of the programs that was begun that was one of the programs that they list in this pocket of failure then we'll go. Also go to Head Start at the same time when the president of the is also saying that we cannot throw money at the problem. Because we don't have any money. The federal budget deficit has nearly quadrupled during President Bush's tenure. Meanwhile we are throwing money at Russia. And the president doesn't want to throw money at space and space programs. There is. Less to say there is an insincerity coming from that White House. What do you believe the president and would have been of long for us to expect the president so quickly to be able to travel to L.A. and unveil a bag of goodies. Or should we expect him to do it all didn't.

No I don't. I don't know I don't know. I mean I didn't expect it. And essentially I mean I don't think there is a quick fix. I do think that you know there are some needed immediate short term things that have to be done to simply because of the situation that people find themselves in. Families who you know may not have transportation than you know without food without places to shop. Getting you know the community to a functioning level again that's really crucial so those sort of things will probably be done. But then you have to look at some way of perhaps encouraging those businesses to return. Some way of satisfying some of the shop owners whether they're blacks whether they're Asians with their white shop owners. I mean if they are insured and not trying in some way to compensate them and perhaps providing them loans to get started again you know that a guarantee by the federal government or something of that sort. I think those are crucial but I think you're also going to have to look at this other area. It's not going to be solved simply by small businesses. I mean the schools are the schools there are let the schools and any

urban area I mean the families the young people are without the resources or the training without the prospects that other communities. You know the person I've sort of wanted to I agree has there are some short term things that will will be done and have to be done but I also want to get a better sense from the president that he really understands what this is all been about. That he really understands the crisis not just in Ohio L.A. but. The urban cities around the country and I've not gotten that sense of even from his first national address. It was all law and order law and order. And then of course once Kant came into the picture and and Lou Sullivan came into the picture and conses Newman some others in the cabinet came into the picture and he had the meetings. He began understanding realizing they've got to do we've got to move beyond this now and there is this kind of this anguish out there. And this final question let's try to put it in this perspective. The president has essentially said we can't throw dollars at the problem. We can't continue to tax and spend to many when he says tax and spend he means we can't tax white Americans and spend on black Americans.

And when that is said there is an underlying concern among many African-Americans that there is again that same standard being applied. How does the president or can the president get beyond that tax and spend statement and all that it means and still invest money in inner cities. I think it's to recognize first of all that you know white people aren't the only people to access that black people pay taxes as well. And sometimes they don't get all of the services. You know for all of the taxes that they pay. The other thing that I think he's going to have to look at in addition to trying to crack down on everybody who was involved in it. I mean amazingly all of a sudden you know this judiciary system that was practically dysfunctional a week ago is you know. Roaring in motion you know processing people very quickly. I think in the process of trying to process these young people he's going to have to find someplace to put them besides in jail which is what you know they seem to be aimed at doing now I think you should use them. Are you

suggesting that helping rebuild the community as well. I think card if you're talking about young hoodlums here I mean I don't know you're saying that necessarily you're saying that many of these rioters are are fine young men who are going to take hammers and begin to rebuild. As someone pointed out I mean you know looting goes on in the society all the time. And you know taxpayers pay for it as well. I mean you have the SNL scandal. I mean you have I mean costly. You know the failure of the government to monitor to keep track it all depends on what which crime you want to go after but I mean the Treasury is constantly being looted and this time I just simply think it's a matter of directing it a certain way. Many would say that that the the right would perhaps not have been such a severe as an as severe if African-Americans were empowered only a little more felt a little more and had more generally economic power in the district most recently we hear a federal judge saying that the city's minority contracting law which has proved to be a vehicle of of economic empowerment in the city. It

is not perhaps constitutional at least with respect to individuals in the construction and road construction industry. What about that decision and this case stems from the O'Donnell construction company white owned company that has complained that it has been discriminated against reverse discrimination I think they use that term because they have not been able to get these these bids. Some 23 to 230 million dollars in and wrote that I can visit the city and the city is set aside 35 percent of these contracts 30 percent of all the contracting for minorities. The thing about it is and what the what the court has said is that the city needs to go back and come up with this that they call a disparity so you to look at just how many of that and look at the numbers and where these countries are going how many the proportion of these countries going out the whole thing about that to me is that I don't know if you need to have a study to see that business is business is in construction and other kinds of small businesses minority owned businesses in this city and such as Richmond last year

have been discriminated against That's something that's sort of obvious. So I'm not sure. It just seems to me yet again the court of appeals say look this small white business as I understand it did appear to have have a case when you look at the numbers when you looked in filed in 97 I thought of something I wasn't. I mean it's in the interest of things like contracts were going to minorities so they were effectively. But this was and what exactly do you in this particular category. And if we look at that category Brenda what what would your feelings be with respect to a minority set aside law that allows that kind of disparity in the wording of contracts. I think there were I think there were two problems with the way that the program was run. I mean we've known for some time you know what the stipulation of the criteria the courts are going to ask for in allowing a set aside program to operate. I mean there have been some which have been maintained in place. I think the one which the federal government the public works program. They were not able to strike that down because there was clearly

I mean evidence. I mean the program was based upon. I mean Congress passed the law first of all so there was legislation backing it up. It's simply the fact that only one to some miniscule amount of federal contracts went to minority owned firms. And here only like. 4 percent of them were going to be set aside for minorities in order to sort of bring them up to a certain level. So it was very obvious in the absence of a demonstrated historical you know in other words that this is based upon historical evidence of prejudice or bias which excluded minority contractors. We know what the history is but there has to be a rationale a justification for the program itself. Now for 90 percent even for this one particular little category to be going all to minority contractors it seems to me you're setting yourself up to get shot down by the courts. If you want the program to be viable then you need to provide the justification for doing it that way. If it's simply to kind of redress an imbalance

that's been there. I mean I can't say it right offhand but that is in fact what the case is. I may believe it but there needs to be some justification a rationale so that when someone goes and you explain it to the law. How do you explain all this when you look at let's say the national figures would suggest that less than 2 percent of the businesses in this country are owned by African Americans and they contribute less than 1 percent to overall business sales in this in this country. And then many other hand you say you have a court that says you have to prove that there is discrimination in a particular industry given the temper of the times and the composition of the individuals going on to the courts this is not at all surprising however that this law was challenged. It was also not a surprise. And the city council member Nathan Sinan was saying that there is data to support to justify the set aside program and it's his belief that this data might well justify a figure that is much

greater than 35 percent. All that needs to happen is for the responsible officials to gather this data and make a presentation. I got the impression earlier that they were there was there were different hands involved in this and that one had did not know who within this to government what the other hand was doing or what needed to be done. We're going to take a moment for a couple of messages even exchange news analysis will continue in just a moment stay with us. I. No no no. Hello. Welcome back to evening

exchange news analysis James Adam sitting in for the vacationing Kojo Nnamdi Vincent McCraw the district held its primary last week it's almost as if this week really never happened. There was no event in the city eyes no enthusiasm in terms of the numbers of people who showed up to vote. And I think that may be sort of systemic of what's happening around the country but in the district I suppose when you're talking about 29 delegates you're talking about electing party officials to to the national convention and to the party local party. There's never been a great deal of an interest their particular one has only one person to vote for me that was Clinton on the ballot there was Jerry Brown that was Tsongas. But with all this the steamroller sort of machine that steam Clinton has coming in to the to the to the seat in the last weekend before the primary people felt well why bother to vote he's going to get the nomination. Everybody here with 70 percent of us 70 percent African-American city here predominate Democrat the Democrats run everything. Why bother going.

Well they may have a really horrible gas which I probably should nail thing. And given that I think the turnout was like 25 percent of all this I think in that 70 plus. Voters that didn't show up I did. It's terribly suspicious to me that 17 probably that the city electorate you know is a. African-American then he won by you know with 25 percent of the vote and I'm just thinking you know I'm I'm not sure what that says. I mean it's in spite of the fact that he had endorsements from all of the city officials essentially. I don't think it matters to people. One would say you know Bob ELLISON What does it say about Jerry Brown in particular because the district has been hailed as an extremely liberal bastion of Democrats. Paul Tsongas was name was on the ballot an uncommitted slate even beat Jerry Brown one would have thought the Jerry Brown would have done far better in the district. What it says about Jerry Brown is that uncommitted did better and is doing better. I don't know how people feel about Jerry Brown.

After you hear him just a few times you've heard all the bells on just about everything he's going to say. I do suspect that many voters either those who did vote or those who stayed home figured that it was a foregone conclusion. One of the things that I think the Democratic Party has to find disturbing about this because not only was the turnout low here in the district it has been low throughout the nation is that if voters don't show up the party's standard bearer really hasn't a chance against Mr. Bush. How do they address that concern. Well I think one of the things is it seems to be a longstanding home with the Democrats is that they don't have the party loyalists don't seem to have the energy to want to go out and convince people that they should have the jobs and let's let's approach this for Congress. But with that when it comes to the president's race it always seems to me that the DNC whoever's in control now it's Ron Brown don't seem to have the wherewithal to go out there and convince their their core constituents

that this is who we're going to back and this is who we're going to go out for. I'm not it's whittled down to two people and primarily just one me they were all saying Clinton is a likely nominee they should be now working towards November. But there doesn't seem to be that jelling yet another vocal race. Brenda city council chairman John Wilson took the seat of businessman John Hechinger on a very very close race. Did did John Bolton's not Fishell Yeah. There were two. It's not just that it's not a or a 1500 absentee ballots but even the fact that the race is that close does it mean anything in particular to Chairman Wilson. I actually thought he would do better I mean I'm not I'm not quite sure why. Hechinger did as well as he did except for my previous there which is who essentially turned out to vote because I think actually that over the past few months his star has been rising among some residents maybe not among city workers and labor unions. But I think among a number of

people in the city I think they're beginning to sort of respect the way he's been functioning. You know as council chairman so I think he's shown an incredible or surprising amount of leadership that people here. He was always kind of a rabble rouser before and I think the position the leadership has shown and somehow working out compromises with the mayor working with the council members and all of the might. I think it's sort of I think it's being recognized essentially for you know the leadership he has exercised a 13 year old Maryland boy pre-teen Joseph Ford was gunned down accidentally caught in the crossfire between a couple of thugs. What was interesting about his death was how they were able to capture his assailants it was one of those few times when residents from the district in Maryland as well came together phoned the police and gave tips. Bob Ellison is this only because he is a 13 year old or do you think we've swer seeing a new

attitude with respect to police cooperation. Maybe a new attitude may be maybe the situation in Los Angeles had something to do with that I'd like to get back to President Bush briefly in his speech today he mentioned how he remembered how once youngsters used to take a lunch to school and now they take guns to school. He just passed it off without saying a word. With the 13 year old being killed with students taking guns to school must look to the federal level. What leadership have we had to reduce handguns in our midsts. Nothing. Nothing. That is part of the problem and unfortunately we're going to see more young valuable lives lost. I'd wonder I wonder how much of it had to do with the fact that it was in Prince George's as opposed to the district. I don't really know I mean I wouldn't want to sort of castigate the district you know and say

that the citizens here are less responsible and less courageous. And you know because there were a number of stories in the post about a month ago about the number of witnesses who were being killed. You know people who were witnesses to these shootings and these crimes who were themselves then being you know targeted. So I I mean people who live in these communities who see these things happen are often putting their own lives in jeopardy to speak out. I think another compelling factor in the case of Joey Ford was that here was a young kid who was very bright was very responsible. He lived in that community and he was doing all the right things. And I think. Think it really hurt people I think it hurt people beyond you know just the immediate African-American community I mean you know Senator Metzenbaum went to his funeral. I think the police themselves you know went to the funeral there were a thousand people who attended that funeral because here was a young man with only that Sunday spoken

about you know the need for hope. You know in the things that were out there destroying you know the young and young people like him. So it's interesting that there he was on the day that he was talking about these things then to be gunned down I think people had a real sense of loss the way his family responded. His family did not respond in a way of we want to be dead we want him caught. Whoever did this needs to be put under the jail. I mean they responded in the way that I think Best African American Christians at their best do respond which is you know if they come forward we will forgive them. And then because there's a great a lot of them there's a reason why this happened to our son. I mean we didn't lose you know his life had been so good that there was not any disappointment in him. I mean it's rare it's a rare family that can feel that kind of joy about a child that they can let him go. Close to a life a day is lost to a handgun in the metropolitan

area and as you suggested Brenda there there are very few people who come forward to volunteer information with respect to who may have been responsible for many of these murders then sent did do you believe at all that the events in L.A. have any bearing whatsoever on how people in this community perceive violent acts. I think so I think what we're going to see over the next few weeks the next few months maybe a little bit more understanding not only from from the community at large but from those who cover the community the media the elected officials local elected officials and I think I believe I think that people can be a little more sensitized to all kinds of that maybe some will get oversensitized and hopefully And you know unfortunately some may do some things that aren't toward. But I like to think that's going make it a little bit more sensitized such as such as the Joey Ford case where the community is I mean we're sick of it already. I mean the violence the constant violence day in and day out

quickly in the city where I think people are just going to say we've got to do something we've got to at least do. Our little part to to bring some into this. And if if enough if it builds and clearly I think we can see some drastic changes it's not good. It's not going to be overnight it's a going to be over the next three or four months you know but I think we can begin to see some kind of I hope some kind of drastic some might suggest that perhaps even the opposite would happen when you have for example in South Central L.A. a murder a week or one a day in the district that when you have 50 some murders attributed to this riot that it that it means less because violence is so prevalent that's why the actions of some of these residents with respect to Joey Ford did appear to be special Any thoughts on that. I think I think we have to look at make a distinction. I think what's going on is the people who are in a position to do more in some way are now thinking about how they can make a difference

even though it may be a very small difference people are wondering what they can do while they are still looking to leaders to come forth and state their position but I think this is a great. Period of introspection as those in a position with jobs with homes are thinking about the degree to which we are killing and hurting each other and trying to figure out what they can do to stem that. I mean it's interesting because even though there were some black own quote unquote businesses protected in L.A. There were a number of those businesses that were hit as well. And you know the one picture of the businessmen you know on the cover of most nearly all of the newspapers. I think that that was an interesting factor. The other thing this reported truce between the Bloods and the Crips like you know the enemy it's not us that's the enemy. And you know as long as we are

fighting each other like this and there was also some discussion that part of this or a truce had resulted from the fact the children they themselves had become aware that a number of children were being caught and their crossfire and they were trying to sort of you know bring a halt to this violence. There was you know so I don't I don't know how much faith you know to put in this truce you know between the two of them. But I mean and I agree essentially agree with Bob as well because I I do believe that to a certain extent I'm here where I am sitting in this seat I have the job that I have. Because there were people who got angry once before and said enough already. And America reached out for its most comfortable. The black person it felt most comfortable with. And I think people implicitly know that if you don't see them rushing to condemnation they know that in part they are where they are because you know people want them there as a kind of between them and the folks out there in the street.

Should we be rushing to condemnation with respect to the Klu Klux Klan earlier this week the owner publisher of a small newspaper murdered. He had recently published a series of stinging articles essentially asking the Klan the take off the sheets and come out and speak in public. Is there enough there for for for the kind of statement the kind of condemnation of the Klan if they were involved. Well if they were involved I think there was enough there when you look at the look at the setting you look at the kinds of pieces the editor was writing. And unless of course you know there was some some other things about the Editor we don't know in his personal life. Right now the sort of throwing around the whole idea of a suicide. But clearly. When the when the Klan is attacked in the media particularly in Appalachian where they've sort of fostered and are now trying to foster new members in a sort of sort of been fertile over the recent years this kind of thing it looks like them I remember reading a quote where one of the the leader of the Klan out there said

well with it we're not into that anymore. We don't do that kind of thing anymore. And I'm I had to chuckle somewhat. But it looks as though that perhaps this man this editor was you know again raising his voice using his newspaper to to root out that kind of evil in this community and perhaps even lost his life for obvious a situation even if the facts do not bear out that it was the Ku Klux Klan that that the administration or at least the the FBI should make a strong statement with respect to this murder if in fact it's just a possibility a serious possibility is that kind of leadership necessary here that that kind of leadership is is necessary on a number of fronts. But if. If there is a possibility the FBI will not make a statement the administration will not make a statement what I'm struck by is that the

long list we discussed the KKK the police the banks that don't lend in the communities the guns that are in our midst. Yes that well there should always be a statement there should always be action against the Klan anyway. But and in this case until there's more information I don't expect a statement from the FBI or the other leadership levels. Yeah I think they're going to have to have more evidence to go on I mean no one was. No one was seen leaving US House. I mean essentially it's entirely circumstantial. He wrote these articles about the Ku Klux Klan. I didn't see any didn't see into it. They are the only reason some of their speeches and also there was no indication that they had threatened him or was there. I mean I mean you'd need something to go on beyond the fact beyond that because there have been other people who have. Also infiltrated the KKK and written about them and expose them as well.

Well you don't have to worry about infiltrating a doctor's office but there are seven doctors in the District of Columbia that the federal government says fudged or reneged on their agreement to repay medical school loans. Is the government making a bigger deal out of this than it actually is or should this be front page news in in Washington dailies and on evening newscast. I I I rather suspect that because they're doctors it's getting possibly more publicity than similar cases would be getting. You disgusted by this. Bothered at all. You know I would assume that medical school costs more than essentially law school costs I mean the argument that some of them are making is that the places that they would have had to serve to satisfy the requirement they wouldn't have earned enough to then repay the loans. So in a certain sense they were forced not to keep first their obligation to serve. You know when the public health service

capacity and secondly to pay back the loan which you know they have gotten in excess somewhere is a hundreds of thousands of dollars these were not small loans right. But then they earn big. About a hundred and thirty average it seem like they are in about a hundred and thirty two thousand a year and I don't know how much the payments were you know per month or whatever I mean I think people I think it's bad for loan assistance programs. I think as much as we need doctors in this country I think it's important that people do pay back. And I think people in that I don't have very much sympathy for them because I think in some ways if they had made the effort to pay back that we wouldn't be hearing about these stories and I realize I'm not quite sure why doctors feel obligated to live a certain lifestyle while that you know. You know why do you think the doctors. I might argue that we're talking seven physicians I believe six physicians one dentist. You know why do you have to file suit go to the press when you could've simply called us

and done this much more quietly what is it about that sort of takes the responsibility off and they've known that they've had this obligation. And I agree with Bobby sure that if you come out of school and you find your way but many of these doctors now are making some decent salaries in six figures so I'm not sure I have I don't have any sympathy for them because I think because it wasn't just that they didn't pay the loan back they were also not working in the areas where there is you know there are a lack of physicians I mean you know where you know doctors are essentially needed that's part of the deal. But in the area of the troubled health service you can also help forgive the debt. Right right. So a lot there. At any rate let's open up the conversation at this point in time as some of our viewers. Good evening you have a question you're on the air go ahead. OK Good evening again from guests. First I gave Dr. deck to you refer to I love it when people type of environment laugh at the appearance of yes man. I'm sure there was a time the group of drop there but not all of your people were served at home and I don't consider that a right you can kind of buck up rise against a record

and have bought out whatever you want to call it had placed Vice President Bush's concern he didn't have a clue as to what our maligned car interaction right that I don't think either do you think. Civil rights leaders there were seven part command popping up. Right house and right up there with Harriet Hanson here have a lecture there I'm a fan of family values. I think young people know what it took to spread it to teach me as a pretty popular vote not that the system is easy but that it need to be destroyed my faith in the system is there and I can say truly I don't love America anymore. Thank you. Well that was certainly a strong statement. I don't want to respond particularly to my calling them thugs and hoodlums but I'd like to ask our panelists are those who rioted in ran it out of the store some so cavalierly should they be considered outlaws limbs. I was on the streets of D.C. Monday when and it wasn't just

Howard students. It was young people from the community they were from a number of universities around the city. And I remember at one point just being in the crowd and I could just feel the rage. It was like and it was like you could just feel a tremor sort of go through the crowd and there was a sense of which because they had the police kind of police chief that they had dealing with them because there were adults in the crowd I noticed. People from the community who were like kind of calming them down or keeping that energy direct it so that it could play itself out or it could have happened here I mean for some reason cooler heads prevailed here and it was sort of they kept it in check. They let them kind of roll over and wonder from you know one part of the city to the next. But that was a real and genuine anger. So you can label them as opportunist I think some probably were opportunists you know who sort of after the initial conflagration you know the second day then what in. Well I think once a fire starts what anyone expects it to then just die out.

I mean that's not the way certain blazes rage. I mean they do have to realize they were there a little bit back in just a moment we'll take additional phone calls Stay with us. Welcome back once again to evening exchange news analysis let's go immediately to the

telephones. Good evening you're on the air. Yes good evening. There you know what I'd like to address something that you get that over by Congress it seems like when it it seems like when Congress came in and Reagan gave one of those who were scared to lose their jobs and the power that Reagan with bigger that big push and everybody was going along with everybody agree everybody agreed they didn't see anything wrong with it. You know it is always like the young lady that she's a revolutionary to me but YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU. And the gentleman that moderating the program. It is the people that. Who go along with everything you say hey this is the way it should be you know. And if we don't have anything to talk about then you have to be a hoot. You can't seem to understand I'm 58 years old. If you don't remember your past you're doomed to repeat it. And that's just what's happening now.

What about the gentleman's point does something we talked about earlier that the president Reagan rode the tide of public support and there were many in the Congress. And it's ironic they're all now you know they could have done something they didn't I mean isn't it enough that they did nothing at the time and they're still leaving. And so they could have done something with those you know. What those retirements they are now going to you know benefit from. They could have stood for something and maybe they'd still be there. They went along with them and I mean you talk about a riot that was a riot. Think about the assault that Reagan committed against African-Americans against civil rights against the Civil Rights Commission against the very programs that are now under attack at least rhetorically from President Bush. That was a riot. That was an assault. And not too many in Congress rode the black stallion to rescue anyone. And the second part of the gentleman's question which referred to again my use of the words thugs and

hoodlums with respect to some of the actions of many of the people we saw in Los Angeles. How do we delineate. I think that for the purposes of this discussion what we call them how we refer to them is not as important as our understanding of what went on. What goes on when you have people who are burning and looting in their own neighborhoods when you have mothers taking their children to help them take goods out of a store. That is a problem no matter what you call them. That is a problem that needs to be addressed now. President Bush has condemned that. OK but it seems to me you do have a problem. Why don't we try some intervention so that we reach people before they reach the ages of 10 12 15 20 25 so that we don't have that kind of a situation so that that rage if we can ever deal with that rage is expressed

in other ways. I mean I guess you're like you know something and it's an awful thing to have to say. You know I don't think this society understands any other kind of language and I think it's a hell of a price to pay to have to communicate with your life and essentially you know you know 50 most of the people who are dead in Los Angeles are blacks and Hispanics or looters or not. And because they lived it. I mean this is what I have to realize that because they looted somebody will think I believe somebody will think twice before they'd beat somebody over the head senseless. They will think about it. They will pause before they shoot the next person in the back. Let it end. I mean and so we can dismiss them as looters or not and you know we can say it was senseless. We can say it was outrageous. We can say it was deplorable. But in the mean time year after year you know one man after the other whether he's involved in a traffic violation whether

he's robbing a store whether it's a young girl shoplifting or not who shot in the back of the head and then the person who shoots her in the back of the head her property is so much more valuable than that young woman's life that a judge can say that this woman is no threat to the community and puts her back in the communication you know probation. So you have to communicate to people that know we may not have much power but we will tell you this. We will not tolerate this. Let's take another go very quickly if we can use one of the regular thugs and hoodlums phrasing in the call that last call when the woman called I think it may go to what they see when they hear when they hear those phrases in the case in this case when you see blacks and Hispanics rioting like that in that ad the president even used the words boatloads of hoodlums. I think it's perhaps in their minds the wrong kind of measures because many people may already believe that's what blacks and Hispanics are thugs and hoodlums and that may be what those callers are getting at. OK so let's take another. Call the meeting on the air.

I have a question and a comment. My comment is that I'm kind of disgusted because of the fact that dialogue such as you have and now in another political analysis that have been taken place on the show haven't addressed the issues of the fact that there is going to be a large turnover in the Congress and we're not running any candidates. There's no talk about strategizing how we can start to run some candidates so that we can fill some of these upcoming vacant slots. My question is also to Mr. McCraw I am a subscriber to The Washington Times for about three months and I'm fairly new to this area. And when I read the paper I'm kind of turned off because I feel that it's a racist paper because when you look at the DO is profile column The only people that I've seen in the last three months in the duas profile column have been white. When

I look for something about our people I see us in the wanted by the FBI come out as a matter of fact in today's paper that two African brothers in it wanted by the FBI and every Friday this column comes out and all I see is Africans want to buy the FBI doing things. Well what I think I understand sir and I don't want to answer but I think we. Put you put him in a bad position and defending the paper but I would point out that The Washington Times is a conservative paper. And many of the conservative views that you're going to read in that paper are not going to be many of the views that you'll find generally shared in the African-American community. But I would suggest you give them a call write them a letter with and let them know. So I would suggest that people when you have those kind of concerns call them up and let them know. Write a letter to the editor and let them know how you feel because otherwise they won't know and may not do anything unless they know.

As to the question about the congressional seat. I mean because some of these people are retiring because their districts were redrawn and you've got a black woman for the first time running for the Senate who has a possibility of winning so badly seven or eight possible house new house seats and maybe a Senate seat. They are expected to have to stop you there we have to take another moment for a message will be right back stay with us. Thanks for joining us on the next edition of the evening exchange to a look at a career

change of a higher calling mid life ministers who've abandoned their 9:00 to 5:00 jobs for the pulpit. Until then have a great weekend. We'll see you again on Monday. Good night you. An. Evening exchange depends on your contributions. Please send your donation to MTV. Twenty two twenty two fourth Street Northwest Washington

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