Evening Exchange; Gangsta Rap

Ganks the rep is it art or trash we'll weigh the pros and cons of next on evening exchange. Good evening and welcome to evening exchange I'm Kojo Namdi. For the past several years rap music has been carving a successful niche within the music industry. Out of that music a new form of lyrical content has evolved called Ganks the rep. Rappers argue that their hardcore approach to their records is a true depiction of everyday

life for them. Critics say it's degrading to women and it's perpetuating a culture of violence. Joining me in this segment is C Delora Stucker who heads the National Political Congress of Black Women. Her organization strongly opposes Ganks the rep. Along with us is a game of the local rap group no description given. We'll see his partner in a second his partner is player who is a member also of no description given. Joining us WPGC's assistant program director and DJ M.D. Thrad. And finally Belma Johnson is host of Black Entertainment Television's teen summit. Joining us via telephone is Jean Shelton who is the publicity director for Warner Brothers Records in New York, welcome to all of you Mr. Shelton can you hear me? Yes sir. Let me just make sure. And we can hear you also. I'll start with a simple question that I'm sure we'll have a wide variety of answers Mr. Shelton since you're on the phone you get first shot. What is Ganks the rep?

Well I think Ganks the rep is a popular form of music that has been created for the most part by young African Americans who draw from experiences of their lives. And the influence of the music what you hear in the lyrical content is their experiences firsthand in some time of fantasy but it draws from their experiences in terms of what they've had to do on the street to survive. Okay game player I'm sorry. What's Ganks doing? Ganks the rep to me is exactly how Mr. Shelton put it except I would say also that it's more than just you know the experiences is a culmination of what's been going on for the past couple of years and rap since rap started. Rap started with people basically doing the dozens you got together you just hanging with your boys and you would talk about each other and you was you know try to see who was the best at you know putting a rise together and everything like that.

So you're trying to make yourself look like the best person at it along came a lot more the West Coast Ganks the more gangster rap where they talked a lot a lot more about realism about the way things were on that side and it sort of combined to the point where now it's a little bit of both of them adding together where you're the best at what you're doing and if it happens to be gang bang and happen to be hardcore that's what you are you're representing yourself. Do you consider yourself a gangster rapper? I don't consider myself a gangster rapper in the terms of I do talk about reality in my reps but a lot of the thing it depends on how you define gangster rap first of all gangster rap is to me straight realism we add on a couple of the extra you know the fantasy stuff where people go off the deep end about how many people they shoot how many girls they got etc etc it gets a little bit crazy. What's gangster rap? Gangster rap is just basically the same disrupts that we've been hearing for years only it's

much more hardcore and much more explicit and like players and it's a lot of things that don't need to be perpetrated in the community that's why some of it doesn't need to be played anywhere other than by adults in their homes. Gangster rap is reality you know if a rapper is actually a gangster in these preaching reality his reality is going to be gangsterism you know so it's going to come out as gangster rap. I myself don't consider myself as a gangster rapper so my rap is not going to be gangster my rap is going to be a different reality. It just all runs the gamut onto what your reality is if your reality is one thing then it's going to be that thing if your reality is gangsterism then you have gangster rap gang and that's about what it is. Yeah I don't really don't think gangster rap has too much to do with the music at all. I think gangster rap is just a label it's just a handy little label to stick on any kind

of music that is angry or any kind of music that is offensive or any kind of music that is selling it's not anything that's why you get all these different if you ask a hundred other people they'll tell you for sure that it's this and then another hundred people tell you it's for sure something else it isn't anything it's just a label. See gangster rap is is what gangsters have always been about it projects a glorification of violence through guns through sex through dog drugs and all the other negative forces that we as African American people have long separated ourselves from and tried to remove these negatives and project the positives of our heritage in our culture we are a people that have descended from kings and queens of Africa and we gave the world math it's science it's astronomy it's language and this defies all that we have in our history that we should

be glorifying and yet we find that our young people today are adopting what gangsterism meant throughout our history in this country all of the negative forces and all of the negative cultures that I'm sure that our ancestors would would uphore as we do in the national political congress of black. Jean Sheldon to follow up on what seed the lowest Tucker just said suppose we take the black face off of it for a second and look at it historically as she said and we say that this is Al Capone this is the language of gangsters elevated to an art form with a beat behind it there's nothing different between what these young men are saying today and what Al Capone and his people were saying 50 years ago it just now has a beat to it what's the difference well I think that the difference of the concern that we have right now is where I there is a crisis in our community there's a crisis within African-American families communities and there is a lot of death out there so we need to we're looking at perhaps some of

the influences of the shootings and the killings and the disrespect for life and the consequences of it. That's where the that's where the real concern is and I think that's where why we are having this program tonight and we agreed to discuss it I think that I have from my experience in representing some rappers and over the past years that there is a again drawing from experiences in terms of what is reality and what is not okay let's talk about reality for a second because as far as I understand either player or game or both player and game are or have been to college is that correct yes what is your reality our reality is just from where we come from that the first campus was not reality the college campus was a phony place

the college campus is truly reality you can't dispute that but I mean first of all we have to get the definition straight when you when you point those that you're not going to get popular making rap records about what you were experiencing on a college campus you're not going to get paid for doing that actually what first of all what we are entertainers we enter I mean what goes and sells true but at the same time I mean we could rap about whatever we wanted to what we choose to rap about is first of all our business and first while our art form it is an art and when we go out there we I mean we drive through DC every day I mean you you see this stuff I mean it's hard to just sit there and say okay I'm going to sit there and rap about this college and this this environment when half of our people as everyone here will snow on that there well well why are we going to go ahead and on top of that just because we both of us have been to college does not mean by any means that we've been sheltered and it doesn't mean that my reality has to be different

from somebody who's didn't go to college just because I'm going to college I've seen a lot of people at college that have been you know struggling selling what they had to sell to get their money to stay in college I've seen a lot of people who've done a lot of things just to be in college you know because that's the direction they wanted to go to you know it's like it doesn't matter that I went to college and you know my reality is about college and when I rhyme that's involved in it but when when people say that gangster rap is why is the only reality that's selling today the reality of the street why is that that all of the other experience that you have experiences that you have in your reality you have family in your reality you have you the college campus in your reality you have church in your reality you have neighborhood in your why is the only thing that sells the reality of the street what is the nightly news every every night focus on disasters they don't say and an airplane took off today and it landed safely and all

the people got off and went to where they were going if it bleeds it leads they talk about airplanes that crash they talk about things that go badly they talk about disasters that's just the nature of what we call news that's the nature of what we're interested in we're concerned about problems and one of the things anybody feel free to jump in on any one of these things so one of the things that I wish our young people could understand is what we have always gone through in this in this struggle we have been struggling since the days of slavery and if they think they're having it bad now what do you think our ancestors had doing the days of slavery suffered dogs we suffered ropes we were lynched we were beaten I marched with Dr. King and we were there with all kinds of threats to our bodies but we never succumbed to it and when they call us the names that you are calling us we were ready to fight them we were ready to march do whatever we had to to stop them and so we're not going to do any less when we see our young people whom we love so much

do the same thing just because you think you're having it tough it's no need of glorifying we always said we're going to overcome it we're going to get out of it we're going to be somebody that's why we have people and this is why I like you to come in because I want to be more explicit about what we're talking about here this is a family show but since your young people are already listening to this what see the lowest talker is talking about what a lot of people are concerned about is what is characteristic it seems of gangster rap music is referring to women as holes and bitches what is characteristic of gangster rap is is talking a lot about violence and taking out other niggers talking about other black people in more derogatory terms talking about killing people and talking about are there records that WPGC just won't play because of that yes what records won't you play um in those smoke there are number numerous records that we won't play there are some that we play that have those references and if the entire song doesn't um spread if that doesn't spread out through the entire song that we may play the song if there's a bitch or an ass somewhere in the song we may

just flip that around but if it's an out and out call to go out and look for and shoot my brother or i'm going out and f this whole then we're not going to play that no gene shelton you ought to know that ever since um iced tea pulled cop killer off of his album when he was with warner brothers a lot of people seem to believe that it is the record companies that who make because they make the most profit off of this music that there are the ones who are interested in keeping it going because it simply makes money and in the final analysis everybody wants to get paid well i um have an opinion about that and i don't think that the record companies are at least my record company is insensitive to this i went through uh through the war and back with iced tea he is a gentleman i represented him for five years and all of a sudden he was gone because of cop killer so there was a lot of pressure there because of time order and its affiliations and the fact that

the police uh came after iced uh i think that uh but let me interrupt for a second because i think that's precisely the problem that people have that we listen to these records we hear all of the references that i just referred to we hear about the killing we hear about the holes in the bitches and then we have young people and sometimes record company executives saying you don't know this individual he's a gentleman well we only know these individuals through what we hear them saying but if we hear them speaking in those terms all the time what you're saying is akin to people looking at the Rodney King beating and saying don't believe your lying eyes what you're telling us is don't believe your lying ears what you're hearing is somehow not what you're hearing let me say this again it goes back to what i was trying to say before there is a disconcerning here is because there's a crisis within our communities our African-American communities gangster rap is an art form it is it's it's music it's art there is a line drawn between life and art i think the reason that emotions are so far because of the truth particular art form is because there is a crisis

going on in our communities okay let me allow mr. Shelton mr. Shelton that is the same argument they use for pornography that is it it is an art form there are art forms that are pornography and that's what this gangster and misogynist rap is all about it's pornography and all you have to do is if your camera could catch these words you will see that it's it's pornography because the words not form two and it's an expression it's the first of men's freedom of speech and it's an art expression okay player go ahead then here again i think if you look at uh i represent a young group of gentlemen out of Mount Vernon New York called the young gun and uh when w uh b l f uh on mondia now that they would not uh uh play anymore uh gangster rap on their air uh we can't see it i happen to be talking with the people putting this show together

and they interview the young gun the yg these gentlemen one has had a couple of years and in the uh the pan they have had to survive they're very articulate they're very honest about where they're coming from they're not taking the position that they are glorifying it well that's to say well why are you attacking us and not attacking our fortunate or the vans are so low okay wait a allow me to interrupt we got a few more people who need to speak jinsheldon hold for a second hold your thought go ahead player okay first of all rap is just like the days of old when it's a story telling you're telling your story now when the slaves came over they use the stories of the fox and i have to disagree with you you can tell stories without excuse me excuse me without the language that's that's very true but this this is not all that that there is to to gangster rap i've heard many stories where they use the same language but there is a moral to the story there is a reason why they use these words well we don't you don't have to go ahead you'll go ahead you're going to bind this they're listening to it it is wrong i know where in the world you can say it's

right the shame is that that what is what this is i'm watching you guys go at it and what it really comes down to you're saying the same things you just you speak different languages is really a question of language and the problem is it seems to me that you're offended by the language never mind the message you haven't even gotten as far as the message you're talking about the words not not not not the meaning behind the words not the motivation behind the words not the anger the words are enough exactly that's that's that's that's clearly let our children hear this it's glorifying it's glorifying the whole gangster culture it made them in all due respect we didn't make the word in all due respect in all due respect but you're using the words we are using the words that we've had those words around for years yes they have too much integrity about their culture to use Richard prior uses Richard prior use every one of those words but he did it for years after he grew up and after he'd made this point and after he'd exercised his anger for him they throw him him he used to be arguing about words that have been around for years yes these words are nothing new to black people white people any other people this is

my reality doesn't just include me it includes everything that i see do and everything that the people around me see and do just because i talk about it and and our children exactly you said our children shouldn't be buying this records but they're listening now you allow me to allow me to raise a question here because this message being sent through the young people to undermine and disrespect the female what they're doing now you're getting into what may be the backbone of what the problem with the back community you're saying we don't want we won't don't want to let this is a parents responsibility what is a parent is letting their child listen to these to these records well this that's what a lot of these young people speak to not have to what extent we have a family we'll get back to that issue we'll get we'll get back to that issue we'll get back to that issue but to what extent is all of this driven by a philosophy that permeates

young people today that i'm familiar with the notion of getting paid every young person that i know feels that they have a responsibility to get paid to what extent is all of this phenomenon driven by the notion that once you're getting paid once you're getting paid anything you do or say is all right it's absolutely driven by that but let's face it that's so that's all right once you get me paid whatever you do is all right we the fact that Jack Kennedy was a crook at another Jack Kennedy his father forgotten his name okay John Kennedy no Joe Kennedy Joe Kennedy was a crook it's forgotten what he is is the father of the senators and the the ex-president and this man out here promoting it you're promoting this man you're promoting John Kennedy ran the country the jet fact that jay the fact that the fact that JP Morgan was a crook in a shyster is forgotten he's considered a great American the fact that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves is forgotten almost anybody you look at in history who who has become quote unquote a major promoting these negatives to

all i'm saying is that if there's no difference between there's no difference between what those people did what is this there's no difference what those people did this is another form of savings it's pornographic that's what this is this is pornography and if you want to express it too privately but don't promote this bill how are you people to see and to emulate that's what they're doing oh we have to take a short break and when we come back you'll see a little bit of what people like Snoop Doggie Dog and Tupac Shakur are all about so that if you have never seen a gangster rap video we'll let you see a little bit of it when we come back stay with us do you have this you

from the depths of the sea back to the black Snoop Doggie Dog Pokey get the the the the dog went solo on that ass but it's still the same long beach it's the spot where my server came follow me follow me follow me follow me but you're bad not sleep cuz not resays the year's if I'm needed please act my trip so I ain't holding back and once again I got five on the 20s it's like that and as a matter of fact because I never has I don't have put up food on the back yeah so be about the man you screw up you see that it's a must we rock that's a little bit of Snoop Doggie Dog you ought to know that Snoop Doggie Dog's album debuted and he's a debut artist debuted at number one on the charge that's the first time in history that has ever happened you also ought to know that he's facing facing murder charges

out in Los Angeles, California Tupac Shakur I'm sure you've read about who's facing charges all over the country for all kinds of things flavor flour flavor flour of public enemy facing charges in New York a lot of people are wondering if these guys are trying to act out what they say on their records allow me to reintroduce our guests see Dolores Tucker with the National Political Congress of Black Women we have the rapper player here from the group no description given MD Throbb from WPGC the rapper game from the same group and Beeman Belma Johnson of Black Entertainment Television also with us via phone is Jean Shelton who is with Warner Brothers Records in New York and we were we left when we were talking about this notion among young black people that we have to get paid and that it doesn't matter what you do in order to get paid a lot of people are simply alarmed by the notion that young people feel that it doesn't matter what you do once you get paid for doing it no matter who you degrade whether you degrade black women whether you degrade other black men it doesn't matter what you say once you get paid that is a that is a vision of

society without morality we feel that it is our responsibility as it does to instill some morality into our young people and here we have our young people seeming to argue that having no morality is a great thing well I guess I guess what I'm saying is that it's true that there needs to be morality it's just not true that banning certain kinds of artists from expressing themselves is going to give them that morality what suppose I were to say to you that everybody is in favor of free speech there's a constitutional guarantee of free speech but there's no constitutional guarantee of a record contract well you can write all the crazy stuff you want to write why does somebody Mr. Shelton why does somebody feel that regardless of how immoral or how degrading is something that somebody decides to write and express themselves why give them a record contract and have them put it out on the air well let me say this as far as water records concerned yes we have some experience with iced tea and cop killer that artist is not on the label

any well he left now y'all didn't kick him out he left you guys didn't kick him out well he's no longer on the label anymore I had a situation I was talking about the YG in doing a television interview and the corporate people at time want to call them wanting to know what's up you know yes I put them on the show because I have a record to sell but I also feel it's very important to for them to express themselves and explain what they are all about you know what this young man decided one day woke up and said I'm taking from my brothers I'm hurting my brothers if there's a way that I can make bank without doing this let me try this and that's what he's doing he is drawing from his experience as we see it as a negative thing but he's trying to do something better is that wrong I don't think so and I think that we are basically looking at this and responding to it again okay let me bring the others into the discussion again do you realize that you're

putting those questions to the wrong people I mean I know Gene from Warner Brothers and everybody here with this table is an African-American whereas as you said Snoop Dogg debuted number one on the charts but that was the pop chart he was named be number one what it means though what it means is that gangster rap is now driving the record industry it's no longer possible to say he's just a little small part of rap it is the biggest thing happening like he said like he said gangster rap in this sort of angry music and this sort of offensive language have always been around what it had been until recently was a fringe element of black music BET used to play these kinds of videos but they play them within the spectrum of all the kinds of music right how did they get to be the number one stuff in the nation it wasn't it wasn't black radio because they're being promoted by the who's doing that the distributors and by the white masters of the industry who have always exploited us when they can make money off of us exactly okay and so why are we out of here because you are betting it and eating it because you want to know that's what they're doing and not help the master to continue to destroy and control let me ask our young rappers a little bit more

to explain themselves because you keep saying you need to express yourselves my own views that you express yourselves we have heard these records over and over again and people are expressing themselves what is being expressed we know the story of what's going on in the black community we know the story of the violence what is it that you think we don't know well first of all there eight million stories you can't just say that well I've heard this rap so therefore all black people are acting this way or I've I have to act this way because it's rapper is saying it's it's it's so many stories that it's never going to stop as long as it's poverty as long as there's people in the ghetto you're always going to have a different story and you keep saying that that every black people throughout history have had it hard and it's incredible brother you've never had to say you've never had to be told I can tell you you didn't have to go and you couldn't go to a movie you didn't have to be told that you had to drink from a but I'm sorry you're mother you didn't go through anything we went through and I'm sure you're mother well have you feared for your wife every day at school just from walking over school have you

seen that's because of this that's because of this gangster rap that's that was going on that's been glorified rap is not that old rap has it's about 10 years old basically run dmc's you know they well is this helping is this helping that condition or perpetuating it's bringing a spotlight is doing it but it's the Rodney the Rodney King incident was repeatedly repeatedly said upon our rap records constantly and yet and yet nothing was nothing was no no first of all when a rap when a person tell when a person tells a story when a person tells a story I mean we we sit down we teach our kids about Shakespeare why are we teaching about Shakespeare how to decipher what Shakespeare said I've learned it doesn't do anything if you know why a whole black community doing what you're doing why do we still have mothers why do you still have mothers who are single parents trying to raise their children that's been going on to do the very thing

that you all are telling them not to do I want to get back to the misogynistic aspect of rap of gangster rap and its references to women the Supreme Court has defined that certain words are fighting words if somebody outside of our communities if a white person were to walk into our communities and call my mother a whole or a bitch or if she was to call me a nigga I would go absolutely crazy let we're listening to our young men calling our young women on this unrecours that are selling millions records that are being bought in the majority by young white males the majority of the rest of the day are being bought by young white male who are listening to black women being referred to in this way but you're saying that once people get paid for doing it it's okay well I never said that nobody listens nobody wants to listen everyone wants to say shut up no one wants to listen to anyone they're going to do to make money as as as you illustrate my point don't you're not listening listening to us you're not listening to the rappers you're not listening

to the children who who the rappers represent I mean I came from Los Angeles I saw guys look like Snoop Dogg I get that 100 you can just drive through Long Beach you'll see a hundred guys am I right look just like Snoop Dogg he's popular because he's expressing something that doesn't get listened to somebody like me real bougie and educated it can string together sentence can get listened to all day I get a television show I have a voice I have representatives all over from actors to television anchors somebody like whatever his name is Brodus Curtis Brodus whatever his real name is doesn't get heard this is a way for him to get heard he's just saying listen to me that's a way if they get money not to be heard you get money why don't we think about why don't we listen to the message why don't we why don't we lose our why don't we just take a moment because we're because we're mature enough to take a moment and listen to someone why don't we say okay his language is offensive what is he trying to say the way people listen to red I think I think I think I'm expressing an opinion here and I'm asking you to refute my opinion I

think that what he's saying is I want to get paid and I'm going to say anything that it takes to get paid now that's true of many I think for instance easy is that way and I'll probably get me you make fine distinction but I happen to I happen to have met Snoop Dogg spent many many hours with him on a particular day to do interviews with him and all this posse injury and I really don't think so this is a spiritual guy this is a guy who when he talks to young people it's it's not about getting paid it's not about money it's about women he's trying to tell them something he's trying to encourage them these are people who have been written and these people in the industry you're in the industry if this stuff wasn't selling if these people weren't getting paid would be be hearing all of this music industry is driven off of sales you may not hear it on the radio but these records were selling three four years ago and at the same time there are records that do a lot of cursing and calling the derogatory names and you never hear anything about them

because they don't sell and they'll be gone my point is my point is one leads to the other if the listener doesn't buy it then the record companies won't push it and it won't be sold Mr. Sheldon if you're still there my point is that public enemy had a record call don't believe the hype and I'm beginning to believe that we're bringing sold a lot of hype by our young people and by the music industry because I see does no longer lives the reality of being a gang banger in L.A. he lives in a multi-million dollar mansion in L.A. yet he keeps on making records about about this reality that he used to know six years ago he's not out of a job yet he does stories about people who are because he's speaking for these things he doesn't make them up to them he's neither Mr. Sheldon you should go right ahead what you're making reference to I see I see as an entertainer once I come please see an actor he's a rapper he writes rap the act and film Arnold Schwarzenegger act and film what's the difference it's art I think the

issue is it's how it's received if a young person on the street doesn't it has the inability to decide well Mr. Sheldon allow me to interrupt because I'm hearing two different things you saying it's just art and the new saying it's art and our young people are saying it's reality which is it so if a young blood at 15 years old is on the streets of Washington DC and he sees a Snoop Dogg dog video or YG video or whatever gangster and they interpret that to say well it's okay to shoot and kill because they do it in video then I think that I can't hold the the the artist responsible for that there was a problem there was a problem before that video came out before that record we all know the power of the media we all know how powerful it is and when you see something over and over again in these children are listening I don't know if you didn't know what he was listening to most of us as as the lyrics say on our chart there are you listening if

you're not your children are but this young man here has said that they make it sound so good and look so real that I would drink and smoke drugs just like on the video and I would listen to the music and put myself in the place it speaks of my hood girls became holes and bitches and what's so bad about it they accepted it and now they're doing the same thing Mr. Shelton we're going to carry on the conversation but I'm afraid we're going to have to lose you because we want to get a few of our callers at the local level here in Washington DC to join us thank you very much for joining us okay Mr. Shelton is getting back to the issue of reality I have heard Bushwick Bill at a conference of the National Association of Black Journalists after consistently referring to women as holes and bitches say that that was the only though all of the women he knew were like that and people actually believe that I don't believe that that's hype and we don't know that all of the teachers that you know you know that all of the elderly women that you know you know that the grandmothers and all of the mothers that you know are not like that so when young black people tell me that's the only reality I know every woman I know has ever been like that

let me tell you let me tell you in the schools the teachers are telling us even at the at the head start level five and six the little boys are calling the little girls those same names because they hear it over and over and over again and they're going to grow up disrespecting African-American women even their mothers and their grandmothers and these words have been said whether if they if they didn't have parents grandparents I've heard very many old all the older friends but don't tell me that's the only reality you know this or that anybody else you also hear a lot of them not saying this we always have to give our children the best the first the first thing the first thing that I have to say is the art art art that's all we're saying good and don't disrespect black women you black women right about so many things but but the part of this is always says what that stopped that's what you want these references stop you don't need to make money by doing this the two highest entertainers pay today do not use this language

Oprah Winfrey and Bill Cosby do not use this language their ways that all of this talented energy can be used constructively and in a sense that will give pride and dignity see but they speak for you they speak for you they represent you sure they do oh they represent you even Michael Jackson didn't use it when the thriller was made I didn't hear any of this by language right but they represent he made he sold some of the best I think he was one of the highest I mean first they don't tell you I know coming up that you know the first thing I do run home and turn on Oprah I don't listen to Michael Jackson I want to listen to people who I can relate to I want to listen that's fine who can tell me that's fine you can tell me you want to use this first that's what you can relate to let me finish that's all you relate to when I'm calling women and your sisters and your mothers and your grandmothers wars and bitches that would be no worse than this person you just read their letter saying that he was influenced by a record or a bit let me raise a question with you Beeman and the rest of you before Snoop Doggie dog debut

Dr. Dre's album chronic last year was the biggest selling rap record that there was this came in the wake of Dr. Dre's assaulting D-Barns the VJ because she had included ice cube in a segment she did on her show on NWA which all of these people came out of so he assaulted her okay you let's know how it happened huh and I've heard a million different versions okay but we all know that he assaulted her he himself I have seen him I have seen him admit that he was wrong to do it yeah I have seen him say he said this close and hear him say that he it was it was a scuffle and she got pushed down he was there and he was the richest one not I have seen him say that he was wrong to do it he was charged with assault for assaulting D-Barn however he's a big selling rep the point is when you run into a Dr. Dre do you say I really love what you do or do you say I really have a problem with with what you did to that sister or do you say this is a man who gets paid so big I can't afford to annoy him I have to hero

worship him I have to admire him and as a result nobody tells him that no that wasn't right you can't do that I asked him why are you doing it rather than rather than giving my opinion or judging it I just asked him why because it's in his records he's telling them to do it he said no no I asked Dre why does he talk about those things I would what he said because there are people who need for me to talk about those things there are people who are not spoken for who are not spoken to who need you're not one of those people certainly you're not one of those people and I'm not even one of those people I'm one of the people who like you in the television baselessness have to take a break from time to time we have to do that right now when we come back we'll take your telephone calls we promise stay with welcome back we're talking about gangster rap and doing a host of other things as you can

probably tell at this point this is the second in which we want to take as many of your telephone calls as possible so before we start going at it again let me get straight to you it's your turn call you run the air go ahead please hi cogell this is Tony and I would just like to say that I'm deeply offended a lot of times by the lyrics that I hear in gangster rap and I know a lot of you say that the music is they have fat beats or whatever and that it's just entertainment and that we shouldn't take women personally we shouldn't take it personally if we don't consider ourselves towards the bitches but I think that the lyrics just pit black men against black women and it's really not doing anything productive for anyone involved okay thank you very much Tony any comment on that yes I agree with her that there's there's something wrong with that and if it

makes her feel offended then it obviously there's a there's a problem the biggest problem I have with that point of view and also that as held by Ms. Tucker is to say to eliminate those voices eliminates more than just those words when what we're really talking about is being offended by some words we're talking about eliminating voices when what should happen is there should just be a greater range of voices any more than people who disagree with any one of you have no right to say you have no right to speak we have no right to sell let me get back to the telephone is your turn call you on the air go ahead please I'm listening to what you're saying on the program today with a young man of saying and I believe that genocide we believe that it is a destruction of a people why should we contribute to it and I think that this is what this kind of music and this kind of the videos and that's what it does okay you disagree I don't agree with that at all because I agree with it to a certain extent but when people say we have to just out and out just kill gangster rap we have to say I mean a lot of people focus on the words focus on the bitches focus

on our holes there are stories within there and what we're asking with I mean when we write our rhymes we write them for the youth we write them for the people who are in the situations so that they can hear they can understand it and they're entertained because they know what we're coming from a lot of people emulate that just want to be what we're talking about we don't we don't write for them to you know to go around and kill somebody or do other things that you were saying what we want to do is have the people listen to it and if society wants to contain the truth and wants to understand the truth that the understand the lyrics just just sit down and stop picking out these words and listen to what is being said let me say this you know and the thing about it years ago television influences one so greatly when we were coming up everybody wanted cowboy outfits because that's all they saw in the movies was cow so they wanted little cowboy guns and so forth but now they want real guns because you all are using it and you're saying what to do

with them shoot them slit their throat and effort that's what you're telling them and so they look first of all wait let me finish first of all in this letter also from the prisoner he said I'm sorry but that's why he's there and he said it I didn't say it he's young like you and he said it he said that I want to be somebody he said everybody wants to be somebody and because we are where we are that is glorified to us as the way to be what we want to do is to change those conditions in the in the hood I'm working every day trying to get people in government I met with the president of the United States sat in the oval office with him open not over for Maya Angelou and Dr. Hyde and others to get people in government that will change things in the community who will provide job training and who will provide opportunities for you to go to school and then to change the whole school system so when you leave school you are fit for a job out in society that's what we're working for that is what we're trying to do because we want we want children

do you think that coming up now to have a better life than what they have now do you think that people fall in love because they listen to love songs I don't know that the people fall in love because they listen to love songs but I know that love songs create an atmosphere that people want to listen to but do they fall in love because of love songs is is it is it no no answer my question please is it the driving force behind someone falling in love does does the control the person does that so you're saying that so you're saying that music controls everybody fall in love oh and I don't think anybody can make the argument that's the right thing what's the support he's making right yeah but it's an existing condition it's an exerturned caller you're under interrupt at will go ahead excuse me excuse me excuse me excuse me excuse me go ahead please thank you brother Cole Joe I've been listening to this base for the last 20 minutes or so and I just have a couple of comments to say to my brothers sitting around that table they better wake up and wake up real quick

to what's happening to us as a people they're talking about getting paid they're not getting paid corporations are getting paid the white man is getting paid that's who's getting paid they're talking about I want to get mine we as a people are being destroyed from within this is the master plan this is a grand plan and we'll find it hook line and thinker I don't know about the master plan but obviously there's some self destruction taking place allow me to jump in and take another telephone call is your turn call you and the air go ahead please hi gentlemen and ladies look I'm 42 years old like at some time an old bogey however I do find them I find the music shocking when I think we old bogeys better pay attention to the message is a message that we've to me to be viewed as a measure each day to the hopelessness in the black community miss the proper keeps talking about not the king's days well there was hope in the black community during

not the king's days because we all still now the young teenagers and that's just at once we made white people understand what we're going on they would change their ways poverty in the black community is greater than it's ever been poverty is particularly searing today you ought to pay attention to these messages they they may pretend they may tell you what your future may be like thank you what what what I find about these messages is is that if you're saying to me that no hope exists in the black community how does that these same young men who cannot find their way to a school managed to find their way to a record producer to an agent to a record company to a person who can write contracts how is it that they managed to find their way out of this community very around them every one that does their 10,000 who would love to but for everyone that does 10,000 of them that are trying to to take jobs they're trying to finish their education there's 10,000 that do still have hope and trying to leave live a decent life and provide a wholesome community for their children they are still virtually every

it's a minority which is that we should not ignore these voices we should not silence these voices we should not allow ourselves as quote mature society to get so caught up in the words we miss the message what I what I said to you before I say to you again these voices are now dominating the music industry they are selling more records why why why are people the reason we look like we look is because white people are buying them and they only want to buy that which is degrading to black people back to the telephone it's your turn call a jump in a disintersection you're on the air go ahead please yes my name is Ann Swale I'm 14 and I have a problem with Miss Tucker because she's interrupting us people on the table trying to talk I don't stand to do that when we're talking to our children but go ahead all right but go ahead I don't understand why there's a problem with what their the rappers are saying I understand because this is what I live because she doesn't live it

you can't understand it you have to listen to the message in order to understand it so you don't mind the references I have family that is living and in some of the worst conditions we all have families we might have have struggled to get ahead but we have family that we're trying to help to get ahead so it's not all the same that you may think I've researched a lot of music you know and back in the day before I was born and I'm talking to people of your generation I've listened to some Jimmy Hendrix and I remember a song that comes out to talk my head called Hey Joe where he killed his woman because he found it with another lover down by the river I shot my baby yeah I mean and and then and Hendrix Hendrix was worship you know he was he died of an overdose and then you've got people like Billy Holiday Billy Holiday people worship her you know she's talking about my man beat me she was a drug addict talk about lynchens it was the one song I don't remember the name of but she talked about lynchens and she talked about a lot of violin

and explicit stuff and she was what she was like oh god she's so deep she's so deep yeah strange that was it exactly by that why should we should ban all jazz because because there's some element of it we don't we are offended by we should ban all jazz we should ban all bebop Motown was bought by white people does that mean that it was because they love the glorified words have degraded these words were around then and they never used them like they're being used there's greater anger and there's greater desperation now there's less hope well there's more death and I can't continue to be far worse believe it or not say we're going to do all we can to stop it right wanting some other now we can back to the telephone back to the telephone is your turn call you on the air go ahead please uh yes sir my name is Darren Jones and I'm a Howard University student and uh I would just like to say that see is a and I mean you know disrespect man but you're being very disrespectful to the panel first of all that shows that you're you're not setting the good you're not being a very good example of what you're trying to tell children to be second of all some of the best

poets of our time are some of these gangster rappers now all now the genre has a whole has a lot of people out there that are nothing but that's the music industry period there are so many people that are getting out there that are they have no talent whatsoever but snoop doggy dog if you listen to way he wraps he puts metaphors and similes together that you know you say and he's not getting any intelligence and you're saying that we should only pay attention to style and pay no attention to what he's saying see there again you're not letting me say what I want to say sir you have to listen style is a part of it but everybody's not going to go to school like I can't everybody's not going to go I went to the army four years before I did and I'm paying for my own way to go to school everybody's not had does not have that avenue how about the content how about the content the story how about the content of what he's saying how about the things he's saying about black women what about the things he's saying about what about black men what about the content that I see in my school where they have administrators and officials who are over me and they they in turn receive great just over the homecoming holiday where I mean the

homecoming period where we had all the shows and everything people were taking $9,000 we're getting $9,000 as incentives to do the homecoming steering committee but they yet instill we have people who cannot get their financial aid paid we have all kinds of serious issues that need to be addressed but just because of somewhat the way someone says it and it's different from what you like then you're taking away from their freedoms and I'm afraid I got to go to a break so nobody can really see anything I'm sorry he'll be right back stay with us that's our show for tonight our thanks to all of our guests and of course to you for participating

on evening exchange good night you