WHA-TV Close-Up; Farm Crisis '85: Strategies on Survival

Were. It was a very difficult situation were Wisconsin as I'm fond of saying that road one whether anything I want to get hold of I'm going to go ahead if you're going to let me finish let me finish 75 Ford. WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. You know these are the rural communities that are at stake. You know I thought how did know if I would be but you know I don't need to meet you and you've got to be I don't know if I've got to drive it within every 10 farmers lot of farm and you know take one businessman with you know underneath

farms going down the drain. Farmers moving off the land. The rapid fire delivery of the auctioneer indicates the failure of another family fine. The U.S. economy may be on the rebound but it's missed America's teary land. Our strategies on survival. Last month in Madison. Governor Anthony Earle signed a bill that enabled farmers to receive low interest loans. The measure was designed to aid farmers who may be facing bankruptcy or foreclosure. The bill was intended to help farmers through an emergency not much of that money has been used. But that doesn't mean the farmers aren't feeling the pinch many are. Many farmers now see the bills mounting and the milk checks getting smaller. Many are looking six months or a year or two down the road and wondering if their farms

will survive. It's for those of you and all of you that are interested in farm issues that we have designed this program farm crisis 85 strategies on survive. I'm Margaret Andre Rison and I'm Larry Miller. Tonight we'll be talking to a number of knowledgeable people about farm problems and looking at what the individual farmer can do everything from understanding this year's economy and changing production methods. To handling stress and investigating legal options. We'll be giving you some phone numbers to call helplines so you may want to have a pencil and paper handy. Let's begin with an overview of where Wisconsin farmers stand in this nationwide farm crisis. Well take a few minutes to view this report put together by Wisconsin magazine producer Mark Well there is a very difficult situation. Rural Wisconsin as I'm fond of saying that are all gone. Where they begin to get if you set me up to get 75

75 THOUGHT WE'RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. You know these are communities that are at stake. If I thought about it now if I would be but if I was writing five thousand every 10 farmers without a farm and you take one businessman with farms going down the drain farmers moving off the land through rapid fire delivery of the auctioneer it indicates the failure of another family from one of the U.S. economy may be on the rebound but it's missed America's cheery land. And I know I know but the forces influence in this you know on rebounding industry are basic to any business. The law of supply and demand. The state director of the Farmers Home Administration RON CLARKE Well if there's one thing that we farmers in the United States know how to do that's why can we do it we're going over to the point that the capacity to consume in the domestic market what we have to produce is way out of

whack that over abundance has ensured cheap food for the consumer. It has put precious few dollars in the farmers pocket where the crisis is the loss of the loss of income which results in the loss of the results and the loss of productive members in communities which puts pressure on schools churches small businessmen in rural communities. All in the world of low farm prices according to figures compiled by the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture Trade and Consumer Protection. It actually cost the typical Wisconsin farmer more money to produce his product than what he can sell it for in the marketplace. And when costs are higher than receipts the farmer loses money. Today right down here at the Mississippi River corn is priced at around $2 and 65 cents a bushel. And basically many farmers would tell you that it's costing better than $3 a bushel to produce that corn. It wasn't always this way.

Throughout the 1700s Wisconsin agriculture was lucrative. Prices the farmers received for their commodities were higher than the cost of production. Farming was profitable and indications were it would stay that way. There were lots of cheerleaders out there cheering us on. You know facts saying women have to feed the world but feeding the world would take expansion. Most of it on borrowed money. With inflation escalating land values many farmers saw a tremendous growth in what they could offer the bank as collateral for new loans. All without raising a finger let alone a crime. From 1975 to 1991 an acre of farmland rose from an average of four hundred thirty four dollars to eleven hundred to five. An increase of over two hundred fifty percent. The appetite for credit or Route 1 is overwhelming. But once inflation cool the unexpected happens. Land prices not only stop rising they actually fell from eleven hundred five to nine hundred fifty eight. A decrease of nearly 15 percent. Some farmers found their loans were actually

greater than their collateral. Farmers are paying a very big price for having gotten it. You inflationary tendencies back unlike all of these problems are compounded by the fact that the American dollar is very strong compared to foreign money making the export of agricultural products very expensive to buy. In many cases too expensive. No such situation evolves. There were the worldwide currencies become more in line with the strength of the dollar. It looks to me as if there's a worldwide problem is affecting one a little bit more than any other part of our society. The prices farmers are receiving are about half of what they what they should be receiving a share the percentage of the consumer dollar the farmers are getting is nowhere near what it should be and that is a basic economic injustice in that situation I don't think people understand that.

That basic injustice has taken its toll. In 1970 Wisconsin had one hundred and ten thousand farms. Today we had 86000 in the past 14 years nearly one out of every four farms has gone out of business. So it's not just numbers on a piece of paper or the statistics that these lenders can quote or the government can do but it's real life family that are facing the loss of a fine them have been in the family for generations and they're not only losing a job they're losing the or the place they live in their entire livelihood. The bottom line in a capitalistic society is all important profit and loss. Some a good look at the warning signs that more and more farmers will not make it are clear banks are refusing one out of every eight farm loans. Twice the normal rate. Thirty four percent of Wisconsin farmers are delinquent on loan payments. The debt to asset ratio has doubled in the last five years. Farmers are squeezed between low commodity prices high interest rates and a big

appetite for more credit to see them through. The communication between the lending community the farm family is strained to where the anxiety level that wrote one of the very high I was told in January of 1982 that we could have no more money. I'm saying you don't have an appeal system. You have a dictatorship here. What needs to happen here is people need to get along so that we can all work through this. This meeting is between Wisconsin farm unity a farm adviser group and production credit association of Lancaster production credit is part of a national financial group here that lends money to farmers on a short term basis usually less than five years. This PCA serves Grant and Crawford counties where it has over 60 million dollars in outstanding loans. Prior to 1982 PCA never foreclosed on any of its customers in the past two years. It's foreclosed on seven PCA president Herb Taylor.

We got to think about. Then we have to maybe preserve the financial institutions if we're going to be able to continue with the family farm lenders have a fear that given the current situation farmers won't make enough money to repay their loans. It's now let's get one thing clear and let's agree on one thing we're in a lot of trouble together. I think we understand we will never be able to give everybody on the farm. As farmers go to yet another auction. Many feel it is only a matter of time before the auctioneer sells their property ending not only a business but a way of life. A recent state government survey shows 36 percent of Wisconsin farmers don't expect to survive the next five years. The people of this country don't realize that we're all in this together. But one thing we all do every day is eat. And if we don't take care of American agriculture. We're going to lose our country. As we've just seen farmers are caught in a nationwide economic bind.

Later in this program we will talk about what individual farmers can do to improve their financial situation. But before that it might be helpful to know what farmers can expect in the immediate future. We don't have a crystal ball but we do have a summer sound with us. I sho is an economist and the state program leader for community natural resource and economic development with the University of Wisconsin Cooperative Extension Service. Ayesha Can you speculate for us what does the immediate future hold. Margaret before we look ahead let's just recap. Some of what happened in the early 80s because there were serious shocks to the system. Some of them were covered in the piece that we just saw. For example we had serious curtailment of DMA and an account of a very long and deep recession. The debt crisis that some of the Third World countries were and added to the reduction in demand. Inflation came down dramatically and put an end to

rising land prices. We've had unprecedented deficits for a peace time in our history and that those have put incredible pressure on interest rates. We've had historic highs in terms of real interest rates in the system. And as a consequence of the deficit and high interest rates we've had these dramatic increases in the value of the dollar and that has made all of our exports more expensive in terms of foreign currencies Among them our agricultural products. And that has reduced demand further affecting prices affecting incomes and some of these shocks are still with us. So as we look ahead. Really the key is what happens in Washington. In the next couple of months in terms of bringing the federal budget deficit down in my opinion it needs to come down to at least half of what it is right now over the next three years before we really feel comfortable. If the budget deficit comes down then we are going to see improvements in

terms of interest rates. We're going to see improvements in terms of the value of the dollar coming down. Those are big ifs and they need to be combined with the appropriate monetary policies credit policies so that we don't go into a recession on account of correcting the problem on the budget side. So there are a couple of big ifs. But if everything goes right I would expect some improvement in a year. And. Back on Track probably within three years. With all those shocks to the economic system ahead. Some time ago people in government and extension and agribusiness and lenders were all encouraging farmers to invest and expand. Were they lenders government extension and so forth responsible for some of the problem we see right now. Let me just speak to the extension part of the question. It's really not our job to make recommendations on expansion or

investment other than in an educational context. Let me tell you why we can't make recommendations that are blanket suggestions. Each farm family has its own set of values its own goals its risk taking ability its resources both human and capital. Its on the bases of those that decisions are made by farmers on expansions on investment. The people we work with come to us and tell us what their goals are. Then we provide them with courses of action and applications that will help them reach that goal. Its also our responsibility to talk about the consequences of those actions. So given all of that. Hopefully informed decisions are made. But I really dont find it productive right now to look back and try and lay blame. Because a lot of decisions which look like they are bad decisions because we have 20 20 vision in terms of our hindsight. Actually were made with the information

available at the time within the environment of the time and they were most probably proper for that time. Nobody really predicted the combination and the extent of. The shocks to the economy. That we actually experience what can be done now can individual farm families do anything about interest rates and land values and the strength of the dollar. No I think individual families have to take those as given determined outside of the farm and they need to concentrate on management and on survival. There is one thing I would really like to leave with people and that is our present economic situation while stable is not sustainable. So in my opinion the federal budget deficit will come down the value of the dollar will come down. It's not a question of if it's a question of when these will happen and will they happen gradually and orderly or will they happen in a crisis

environment. So given that these things will happen. I think it's a matter of. Tidying oneself over the remaining difficult times. And that's why I think strategies on survival are important. In one word I show do you expect or is it possible that things could get worse before they get better. Oh it's always possible but I don't think they will. So you're hopeful. I'm hopeful. Thank you very much. That's the big picture. The economic situation is not likely to be changing very soon. And so it's up to individual farm families to find a way to survive this financial pressure. And there are many things individuals can do to improve their farm business. We'll turn the discussion over to Larry and his guests to talk about that very. Margaret made an important point just now when she spoke of the farm as a business. That's not the way many farmers like to look at their livelihood but it's the way many may have to start

looking at farming in order to lower their costs and raise their profitability. Here to talk about how to do that is a dairy farmer from Oregon Wisconsin Philip Peterson. Farm management agent with the University of Wisconsin Cooperative Extension Service working with farmers in Washburn County Jack Tripper. An agricultural economist with the Department of Agriculture Trade and Consumer Protection Mary Gunderson Mary also coordinates the departments Farm Credit advisor program. And a lawyer and associate professor of agricultural economics and law with the University of Wisconsin Cooperative Extension Service. Phil Harris. So to start things out Phil Peters and maybe we should ask you how's business. Well Larry you know I would say in light of the loss of their land values our personal property values the high interest rates that we farmers are still plagued with. The real the high real estate taxes and also the falling market prices at the present time. I would categorize it as cautiously optimistic at the

present time. We can talk I think about three general areas areas tonight perhaps production marketing and finance let's look at some production things. Phillip There are some things that you've done on your farm over the last couple of years on the production side to sort of help get you through the hard times. Larry I think as a as a dairy farmer the first thing we must do is make sure those cows are tested through a DHEA program and also a somatic cell program. Without monitoring these these cows and know exactly what their production is and it's pretty hard to make an evaluation as to how to feed them properly the sematic cell count. Program is certainly a relatively new program that I think pays big dividends as far as your mastitis management. You cannot get peak production out of a dairy cow without having top mastitis management and also many of the dairy plants around the state now are paying on a high quality program which includes the somatic cell count so I would

say that's got to be number one as far as the dairy man is concerned. Jack attributes housekeep Would you agree with that. Yes they do it's very difficult to do an adequate job of managing that jury heard unless you make use of those kinds of tools to help give that information. Let's look at some other tools what other kinds of things are you recommending on the production side for farmers Jack. I think we're going back and recommending some of the same basic kind of tools the extension has been trying to get farmers to adopt for the last few years. Such things as the DHEA program and the sematic cell and other new provisions that have come along. Obviously there's a need for such things as soil testing so that fertilizer programs can be matched to the needs we're looking at forage testing ration balancing all of the kind of techniques that can help that farmer get a better handle on the management of his farm. One of the things that bothers me about this though is that all of these things sound to me like they cost money and there are a lot of farmers who are in real financial trouble and having a hard time coming up with the money how do you justify these kinds of programs.

I think Larry we have to look at some of these as an investment that is going to give a return in a short period of time. Let's take a fertility program for example if a farmer were to test this feels right now and apply fertilizer and that all fell through he would get the results of very early in this cropping year. And therefore if you would also harvest that alfalfa at the right stage and balance the ration Accordingly he would be seeing results much greater than the cost that he would be putting into these kinds of programs. Let's talk alfalfa management again Phil Peterson. That's something I know that's near and dear to your heart. I think Larry is we as farmers this is probably the one crop in Wisconsin that we we as farmers don't manage it properly. We don't feed it properly we don't cut it at a early enough stage to get the most protein content out of that crop. I've always said that I thought Alfalfa was the one crop that was going to help Wisconsin maintain the title of America's dairy land and I really believe that and I think. Which has been said before that that is one thing that we as farmers can certainly

do immediately. It's not too late in the spring. Jack what about the return on investment for some of these things let's take a look at something like a sematic cell contest and do it can we get a fair return on our dollar invested. Yes I think we can because these kinds of programs help provide the information to make decisions that will bring you a quick return. If we talk about sematic sell specifically if we can get the overall cell count down within that herd it's going to result in increased production. And as Phil does mention most dairy facilities are now paying a premium for high quality milk. So again at a cost of maybe 20 cents a copper a month there will be significant returns fairly soon. What about a as a production tool. Well Larry you know that's very definitely we have to feed those cows according to production. Now as Jack as mentioned here when we talk about the testing of our forage is that that's so important because you've got to know what your what the analysis of the Feed you have at home so you won't have to buy anything more than

necessary and many times when you start testing these forages you'll find that you have been overfeeding at home. So it's very important to follow through on a program like this and so when you talk about what the cost. Many times it's a savings. What about good production records. They helpful for farmers. Many farmers keep production records and some do a little better job than others perhaps but do you use them surely. I think there again we as farmers we should always probably do a better job in our records than we do. I think we actually have to keep records for income tax but when it comes to making records that we can use for management judgments I think we fall down there and it's not easy but I think we have to do the best job we can. And then it's hard to get a perfect set. But within the things that are available to each individual farmer you can't spend too much time on good records. So what I'm hearing I guess on the production side are a number of things that many of us have heard about for a

number of years. Some new things such as the sematic sell contest thing but the DHEA the forage testing the taking care of that alfalfa crop these are things that I think many farmers can really do on the production side to help to help out with the the income situation. Let's turn a minute to another area of marketing and when I think about marketing and what you think about what I think about either you you have to get a better price for your products or you have to cut the cost of marketing that product. Mary Gunderson. How much difference can a change in marketing strategy make for an individual farmer. Well I think Larry it depends on the commodity depends on what the farmer's been doing before but definitely there can be a change. Each farmer each farm needs to develop their own farm development strategy for marketing grain farmer would be different from a dairy farmer a dairy farmer is more or less in the short run anyway. Locked into the dairy plant that they're marketing to but what they can do

is to check out and make sure that that dairy plant is aggressive in their marketing strategies. And as Phil said and Jack said is plain for quality milk so if a farmer is producing quality milk he's getting paid for quality milk. A livestock grain farmer. Should make sure that they know their market news. They need to check that they should check more than one market. The department has the Wisconsin livestock and grain market news that is available to a farmer seven days a week 24 hours a day to be able to know what those prices are. Now how does that help. How does it help the farmer checking those prices on a day to day basis. Well Larry when you're getting ready to sell. You know a commodity cower whatever it is. At least you have some record and an idea of what your price that you should be receiving. And the point of it is that maybe this isn't the time to sell that particular item. You should maybe wait. You know when I was in school I took a course in agricultural economics on the futures market.

I spent a whole semester studying and learning about hedging in the futures market and how it operates and frankly I'm still a little in the dark about hedging and about the futures markets but Mary. Is that a tool that many farmers can use the futures market. I believe that they can they can get involved in forward pricing and in a couple of different ways. As far as if you're in the livestock and in our selling livestock you can do that through a packing company and often that if you forward price through that packing company they'll assume the risk and I think that's where we look at forward pricing as eliminating some of the risk that a farmer. Puts himself forth when he's marking his products for a grain farmer. They can do it in various ways but one way is through their co-operative through their grain elevator that they market their. Grain through. They often or should be involved in forward pricing in locking in on a contract.

Bill Petersen any comments on the marketing of your selling of your products is there a way that farmers can come out a little better on cutting the costs of marketing their products. It's as far as the dairy situation. That's this is this very hard in the in the state here we're pretty well locked into our dairy plants has been mentioned. I think it's a case that the best thing that we as farmers can do we've got to get a better handle on our own our production costs. We of course are very happy with the marketing tool the promotional program that is involved here with the state now and the National as far as the dairy industry is going to turn and I think that there's no question that's going to show us some some increase in the in the in the income side. It doesn't happen as fast as we farmers would like to see it happen. What about information where are the best places for farmers to go to get information on this marketing side. Some recommendations Jack. I think there are a number of sources. Most public news media whether it be the

radio or TV have those kinds of market reports and information that people can use. Many marketing organizations will provide that to its members. There are commercial channels that you can subscribe to and pay for these kinds of marketing services. And a Wisconsin will have use of the info text. A new technology that I'm not sure we have time to discuss this evening. But people can get further information about from their county extension offices. So again as we look at the area of marketing there are some things probably not as many things in the marketing side perhaps as on the production side but still things that farmers can do let's turn our attention a little bit to finances a little bit and a farmer here again you think about either increasing your income or cutting back on your expenses somehow and Jack turned to you again for just a moment you get a chance to see a number of farm financial records you go through those record books a lot what kinds of things stick out as problems for you when you look through those books.

I think one of the big concerns that I see is that farmers take the time to keep the kind of records that are needed for tax purposes so that they can satisfy IRS this need. But many times they don't take the extra effort to keep the additional information or to do enterprise accounting so that they can take a look at what does that actually cost them to produce the various commodities or to take a close look at the business side to really be able to use those records to analyze the business. And I think doing a little bit more with records or learning how to keep the right kind of records could be helpful. Well what kinds of things in perhaps be a little more specific here on the record side what kinds of things aren't farmers looking at that they should be looking at them that's one of them or let's just take an example maybe dividing costs into the various enterprises so that. Individual could see what his cost of production might be for 100 pounds of milk or 100 pounds of pork or the bushel of corn rather than maybe just putting those cost over the whole farm so that they can take a look and see which enterprises

may be their strengths which ones maybe their weaknesses and also help them to determine what the cost of production might be so that that can tie back into a marketing strategy for example. You think it's important for a farmer to work closely with a lender the banker whatever and these records help out in that sort of situation. I think we cannot overemphasize the need of a course good working relationship between farmers and their lenders and they need to be able to provide. Accurate truthful information to that lender about their business so that the two of them can work together. Lenders don't like surprises when they find out that there are purchases or accounts that have accumulated that they were not aware of. They need that close coordination. Bill Harris do you agree with that. Yes I think that's right. Particularly in times of financial distress I think it's important to start communicating. Some of these problems early to the lender so the lender can work with you to get through those problems with the least amount of pain as possible. Again the

surprise is something the lender doesn't appreciate and makes it harder for the lender to work with the firm. Let's take a look at some programs that may help the farmer out in this area. There's a whisp land program. Jack can you talk a little about that with Sprint plan program and what it can provide for farmers. Which plan is a computer tool that can help farmers do such things as forward planning or projections of income and expenses. There are a number of different programs in the into. That's one of them there are other programs such as helping to balance deteriorations. And that's probably one of the more popular ones. But these are tools that farmers can use to help answer some of the what if questions and to help give them more information about making decisions in managing their business. Debt restructuring Another area is how do you view that Phil Peters. Well it's a matter of analyzing your complete operation and doing the best projections that you can to come up with a budget. As far as

I'm going to start with a budget and you've got to base it on your past experience and hopefully at that point in time maybe there are some things that you can get rid of. Unfortunately it's hard to put a value on most anything today because the values are they are down but maybe you can sell off some of that personal property maybe you can sell off a few acres or here or there to get that debt down so that it will cash flow is the word today. Feel Harris. Maybe you can go into a little more detail in this particular area what are the what kinds of things might farmers be considering in this area and what are the implications for farmers. I think in addition to these other tax or farm management. The issues we've been discussing I think we need to remember that there's possibly some tax consequences to the restructuring or the cutting back or even getting out of farming. I think that comes as a surprise to many farmers if they're in financial distress there's no income. It's a surprise to find out there may be some income taxes and those arise primarily because if farmers have a low

basis income tax basis in assets and they've been putting off paying taxes by expanding over a period of time when it comes time to cut back if they do sell off some of those assets that will trigger some income tax consequences. So we had that income tax consequence as well as if the debt is actually forgiven. There's discharge of indebtedness income that also results in tax consequences. So as they plan to restructure or cut back they look at the include the tax consequences in that cutting back I think it will again be fewer surprises and better planning in the long run. Can you give some specific areas again where you might were farmers might consider though if they're going to cut back is there any one place that sticks out in your mind as being better than another area to cut back. Well I think the most important thing will be to look at where where the profits are and do the enterprise budgeting that Jack was talking about. Once you've done that within that enterprise if you can sell off assets that have the high basis you'll reduce the amount of tax consequences so you have to do those hand in hand you can't do one without the other.

You know we started to talk about talk about cutting back and cutting back on the farm enterprise I know a lot of farmers Jack who have cut back on the family side and cut back on a lot of the family. Necessities almost in some cases. What's your reaction and kind of cutting back on household expenses. I think the families need to be realistic at that obviously as income becomes tighter they try to reduce what they're spending for family living. And I think it's a matter of sometimes taking the time to analyze what are you really spending for a family living to see how much you are spending. And are there places where it might be cut. But yet I think the family needs to be somewhat realistic so that it doesn't add to the the stress the problems of that can occur between family members as income and the basic needs may not be provided for. Getting into a situation that a number of farmers some friends of mine

people that I know are going into bankruptcy in farming right now. And Phil Harris you've had lots of experience in this area as an attorney and an economist. Let's talk about the options of bankruptcy and what these options mean. OK first of all I think we need to distinguish between the term foreclosure and bankruptcy. Foreclosure is the state laws operating to allow a lender to repossess the assets to pay off the debts that are owed. Bankruptcy is a federal set of laws that do several things but the most important I think is to discharge debts that can't be paid and give a person a fresh start so that they get out from under a heavy debt load by basically turning over all of their assets except those that are exempt and then getting a fresh start. The bankruptcy laws are optional for farmers and your creditors cannot force a farmer into bankruptcy. So it's the farmer's choice to choose the bankruptcy route to discharge the indebtedness and start over. So there is the option to go the foreclosure route and do the best you can there or to go into the federal courts in

the bankruptcy system. Of course we hope that farmers can make it and survive and keep going and here we've discussed so many different things tonight in so many different areas. And Jack is there anything that stands out in your mind as we look at production and marketing and finances so forth. I think Larry one of the things I would like to kind of summarize with is that each of these three aspects are very important in that business and yet they cannot be considered individually without considering them all together. For example we cannot consider production without looking at marketing and without financing. If we're going to produce a product we need to look at how we're going to market and sell that product. We need to look at how we're going to finance the production how we're going to assume the debts what debt load We're going to assume where it's going to come from. It all seems to tie together and needs to be looked at in a total comprehensive management plan. We want to thank you all for being with us tonight on the program. If you want more

information on any of the subjects we've discussed or if you want to talk with someone about your foreign business practices grab a pencil and paper and jot down a few of these numbers. The Wisconsin Department of Agriculture has a hotline to its Farm Credit advisor program. That number is 1 800 3 6 2 3 0 2 0. You can call them during the day and they can help farmers find credit and attorneys. And there's the Wisconsin farmers Home Administration who can help determine your eligibility for FEMA ha loans. That number is 1 7 1 5 3 4 1 5 6 0 6. Call them during the day and you can call them collect. And there's a number for the statewide Lawyer Referral and information service. They can also help farmers find attorneys and they offer a 1 1/2 hour personal consultation with a lawyer for $20 or less. That number is 1 800 3 6 2 9 0 8 2. Whenever you need help you can also call your county extension office listed in the telephone book under your

county's listings. The agent will either have the information for you or be able to tell you who else you could talk to. He will repeat these numbers for you later on in the program. There are many tools and resources at the farmer's disposal and at this time we can't afford to pass up on any of the resources. That's a decision that everyone must make on their own of course but if anything we've said here tonight sounded like it might work for you. It's time to find out so give these people a call. Now stay with us as we continue our discussion about strategies on survival. But first a look at some all too familiar scenes nowadays. These are taken from the movie country. You're carrying too much longer. You know what farming is like. We may have a couple of rough years but it always comes back around you can't look at this thing short. Hell it's a real life you know Bill it's a business. He was saying to Colin's goes through you when you lose a city you know

it's cake you just do you think. He just did it. We don't think we're going to get that kind of money in one lump. I mean we have to sell everything. Even the land. They wouldn't make it to that we think you know. We're not going to sell the land. This line has been in my family for over 100 years all of the money it's their money. They want it back ninety six thousand bucks you think they care we got to do together. I will talk to him a joy just did talk to you and that's your answer right there and you read. What are you going to say to him anyway things are going to get better next year that's we've been saying every year. Never do those. You can't turn this thing on yourself. Orlando makes sense. Nothing makes much sense to me anymore. I know. But we can't just lay down. What's going to happen to us if we do that. We belong here.

In the city. Then we can come in next Thursday. The clock is running. Here we're told you know if we're Dora. Said we had. You're dead. We didn't even see coming. Those scenes were from the movie country about a family facing many of the problems real life farmers are facing today. We decided to show those particular clips to take note of how financial difficulties put a major strain on farmers and their families. This is a time when family relationships may be severely tested. When you talk about farmers you generally are talking about individuals who are independent and hardworking. And when the financial rug gets pulled out from under them the stress of that can be devastating to the family. So recognizing the signs of

stress and learning to deal with stress become crucial to the survival of the farm family. And we have some people with us now to talk about those issues. Let me introduce them to you. Associate professor with the Department of Health and Human Services for the University of Wisconsin Extension. Roger Williams is a home economist with the University of Wisconsin Cooperative Extension Service working with I work county families. Karen Bogan Schneider. And Pastor of peace Evangelical Lutheran Church in Belmont Wisconsin and a member of the Lutheran Town and Country task force Watts Roselle. Reverend Rochelle Watts did those scenes from country ring bells for you. They certainly do. The church is concerned. With foreign people. Has historically been with soil erosion. And now with solar Roge. I think those scenes pointed out very graphically some of the situations as going on in our farm families. People are finding themselves in difficult times.

And difficult times bring up the problems that are gone unresolved in marriages. Bring up the problems a people have with children. They make everything else worse. And so those scenes are very real I believe when we've had a chance to show the film in Platteville and later had farmers come. They kept saying yes this is real this is what's going on. And it is sort of a mixed feeling. One they're sorry that this stress and this these problems are going on. But they did feel good that you know someone's paying attention that the film for the first time. Told what it's like to be a farmer. And it portrayed fairly realistically. Roger Williams What did you learn from that film. I didn't say to you. MARGARET I found that film to be an extremely powerful film and one that just to prove me ready and I am a farm boy and I was raised on a farm and just about every scene just drew me in further and further into the film. I think there are three things that came

out of the film for me in terms of learnings and one would be. The incredible importance of communication within the farm family. As the film started the communication pattern between jewel and be alive is just. I think incredibly good. But as the stress level increases the communication pattern between you and you alive deteriorates the communication pattern between the parents and the kids deteriorates and we begin to to really see the interconnection between stress level and communication level. And one of the points that needs to be made I think is that communication is incredibly important. If stress is bad poor communication can make that stress situation even worse. The other two learnings that I think come out of the film are number one there is the importance of support systems. We saw July trying to provide some support to Arlon who is a neighboring farmer just down the road and. She was

providing support to him but it was coming too late coming much too late in in his life as a farmer and it points out the tremendous importance of farmers reaching out to other farmers and farm families providing support and caring to other farm families. I think the third thing that comes out of that film that's really important to me is the incredible importance of the family. The family wasn't that important to go live in the initial stages of the film but if that turns around there's a reconciliation at the end of the film and there's a coming together of the old and the rest of the family. And girls comes to see to the rest of the family I've learned. That my family is the most important thing in my life. And perhaps that's the one thing that that foreign families need to. Be drawing on at this point in their lives is the incredible importance of their farm family. And a commitment to that farm family. Karen you work with families and we've noted that

communication may fail when the financial crunch comes. What happens to that communication. Do people start blaming one another. In the film clips we saw anger in and we saw shouting and so forth. What happens to communication is the crunch hits. Sometimes I think the communication stops in them people really suppress what they're really feeling. In real families we we sometimes see divorces 20 or 30 years down the road once the kids are grown in their foreign family as well off enough to take a vacation. Perhaps you know the kids are gone. And. The husbands and that's going to vacation the woman says no dice and serves the divorce papers we kind of see those things and what the foreign women tell me is that they're supposed to be a partner. And yet they feel like they're being treated like a hired man. You know they're expected to put in long hours low status jobs like feeding the chickens and running the town for parts and picking up stones and farm women tell me if they write a book they're going to call it no more stones. That's a real sore spot with women

and women and yet you know when it comes to finances sometimes they have to beg for money. And yet the husband may go out and buy a tractor without consulting them and so they keep these things inside because sometimes communication isn't valued in the foreign family and they're kind of in a situation where sometimes Father Knows Best. Now. You know trying to look at it from the foreign male standpoint they're doing what their fathers taught them and what they think they should do they should be the breadwinner and they feel if they work their hand to the bone in the end you know they'll be rewarded for it and. I was talking to a farmer a couple weeks ago and he said he had invested a hundred thousand dollars without consulting his wife. And. He said I asked him why he did that he said she worries a lot. And I didn't want to worry her. Very good intention. But what she perceived probably was he doesn't value me. He doesn't care what I think and I don't count to him. So you know sometimes when you don't have communication have misunderstandings and these things mushroom and become more important.

And it seems to me though that if farm families do not have a good tradition of good communication when this kind of crisis hits it must be very difficult to develop that kind of communication. That's a very good point you really need to start in this before the crisis comes that you've got these parents built up. And what we find in the research when we look at farm families those who do not adapt very well are the ones where they have one person in charge. Those families who adapt well to crisis situations seem to be more flexible and more adaptable. They try to share the decision making. They try to share the child care. They try to share the household management and maybe even the breadwinning you know so mom has to go out to work then maybe Dad will have to help with the children more and maybe have to start supper. And these families seem to adapt best in crisis if you can be more flexible and adaptable and work together as a team. Hard to do it's not easy for me to change is not easy for people to change but that seems to work well in the. In the stress research. We don't assume clergy persons have been trained in money management. What kinds of help can you provide

in dealing with soil and so erosion to families now. Pastors. Really have a hard time addressing. All the complex economic issues. And I don't believe we really. Should. Try to be experts in something we're not. Pastors or to care for people. And they should work to do that. And I think the very first thing. Is for the pastor to take the lead in a congregation and say that the farm crisis is a concern. What I hear from other parishioners in other churches and from our national. Farm leadership is that some churches never even mention it or bring it up. I've heard of stories where people are foreclosed on and the pastor doesn't make a comment about it. I think maybe because some pastors don't know quite what to do. So I think the first thing is to notice very carefully the farm families that are coming to church and knows when they stop because one of the first signs of a crisis coming on and how people

handle it is by withdrawing. To get away from the church. I had one farm family said. Tell me they stopped coming because they couldn't put any money in the collection plate. And. That we have to watch for withdrawal. I think the next thing that we can do is simply preach from the pope and that people have dignity and have worth. No matter what they're doing whether they're farming are doing something else if farming doesn't work for a family. If they are foreclose or forced off the land the church must say loudly and clearly that people have dignity and worth separate from their job. I think also and this is a hard thing for a lot of pastors but pastors have got to work to visit their people more. It's something I need to do more I think every pastor would admit to but we've got to do it especially during this time of special stress. Now we see many congregations around the country putting on farm stress workshops. It's funny farm stress was a word that wasn't even coined till 1978. Before that time a lot of people have the

idea that. Farming was an idyllic way of life with easy going and we could come to the country and pet the cows and look at the waving corn. I think what the church can do nationally is to work to develop urban and rural dialogue and let people in cities know what's really going on. What it's like to be a farmer. Because of some of the problems of public policy nature are only going to be solved if we form these coalitions between our urban and rural people. Apart from what we can do in a more political way what can we do within the family Roger Williams to try to manage the kind of stress that families must be experiencing with these kinds of financial burden. OK I think it's good to recognize right away Margaret that. We're entering the planting season. And we're in full tilt in terms of the planting season and that means that farmers will be working around the clock to not only get that soil work but to get the corn in to get the oats in and so forth.

And it's important to recognize that. That is a difficult time for farm families to deal with. And I heard one farmer put it this way he said probably the worst thing that ever happened to us is the time when they put lights on tractors. Because before that time we recognized when to quit and when to go home and spend time with family. But when we put lights on tractors we no longer knew when to quit. And I think there's a tremendous amount of wisdom in that. The point is that we're entering an extremely busy season and the kinds of things they'll be talking about are more difficult during that kind of a busy season but there are all the more important because of their busy season and because of the danger of accidents and because the danger is so many other kinds of problems that are a fallout from farm stress. But let me touch on several. There are several things that can be done in terms of the physical well-being of individuals and families. Proper nutrition proper exercise proper sleep taking breaks all of those things are critically important. And there are the first things that go by the

wayside during the critically important planting season or harvesting season. But they're important. They're critically important getting that adequate rest getting adequate nutrition so that you aren't for Teague to midway during the afternoon and then stick yourself in your arm or leg or whatever into a machine a machine and experience tremendous accident. There are other kinds of mental techniques that can be used. One of the most critical ones is the the issue of setting realistic expectations. I can't overemphasize how important that is. Not only realistic expectations for yourself but realistic expectations for the other members of the farm team. Because if there's one thing that will create stress very quickly it's thinking that you can do 20 things in the in a day and then find out that the machine breaks down and you can only do five of those things. So setting realistic expectations. Another one would be. What is often called Thought stopping and that is that when you begin to

experience some worrisome anxiety some negative thoughts. The chatter that goes through your head that creates even more anxiety to simply say stop. And to try and turn that around and begin thinking more positively. It's difficult but it's an important kind of skill and it's one that can be learned and one that can be learned through practice. Thought stopping invent positive thinking are really two other techniques that can be used. And then I just want to re-emphasize the critical importance of developing the family as a support system and developing a broader circle of friends and neighbors and people who care about you so that there's communication and people that you can lean on in times of stress. Thank you. Thank all three of you for being with us this evening. Thank you all. And again we don't have time to go into the detail we really need on this subject but we encourage you who want help to call on the many resources available in your

community. If you need help coping with stress look in the Yellow Pages of your phonebook under social service organizations. Your community mental health center or county social service agency is there to help. Now is a good time to quickly run through these and other services you can contact. And we'll repeat those business and legal services. Those numbers if you don't or didn't catch them the first time around. We want to thank you all for joining us we hope we've helped you out tonight. Farmers all over the

state are caught in a difficult situation and it doesn't look like it will change soon but there are things we can do as individuals to improve our personal lives and our futures in farming. We encourage you to use the many services and resources available in your community. People are there to help. I'm Larry Miller. And I'm Margaret Andreas and I thank you for watching. Good Night and Good weather.