We the People; DPI debate

Oh. Good evening I'm Jerry Huffman from weekend on Wisconsin Public Television And I'm Susan Simon from wy AC TV in Madison. Tonight on we the people Wisconsin the two candidates for State Superintendent of Public Instruction square off in a citizens town hall debate. We have a studio audience that's ready to quiz the candidates one of which will serve a four year term when ballots are counted on April 3rd. It's Linda cross versus Elizabeth Bird Master next. We the People. Wisconsin State Superintendent of Public Instruction debate is made possible in part by Wisconsin teachers members of the Wisconsin Education Association Council working to make every school a great school so that every child is prepared for life and the jobs of the future. Blue Cross and Blue Shield United of Wisconsin Wisconsin's health care partners American Family Insurance for all your protection under one roof. Madison Gas and Electric Company

since 1896 providing you with energy and information to help make your home more comfortable and energy efficient Ameritech and SBC Global Communications Company. Miller Brewing Company working to make a difference in communities throughout Wisconsin and the law firm of wit Ross and Stevens attorney strategists. Problem solvers and tough legal issues throughout Wisconsin and now live from the studios of Wisconsin Public Television. Here's Jerry Hoffman. Simon. Welcome everyone and thank you for being here we're here with the two candidates for superintendent of the Department of Public Instruction and they are Linda cross. Cross has been a teacher for over 30 years and is the chair of the English department at Horton Hill High School. Welcome this cross and also welcome to Elizabeth Burmeister. Ms brewmaster has worked in the Madison school district for 25 years as a teacher.

Elementary school principal and middle school assistant principal. She's on leave of absence but is currently the principal at West High School in Madison. Tonight the two candidates will make their case for your vote on April 3rd. We have a studio audience here ready to ask some questions and these are people who have been selected from focus group discussions on education that we had over the past month or so. And members of the group include people from Wisconsin's business community some parent and student organizations and some school board members. We also have teachers here tonight as well many of whom are members of the state teachers union also known as we act. For the record we act is also one of the seven corporate and foundation sponsors of We The People. But as with all of our projects none of the sponsoring organizations participated in any way in the editorial process of this debate. Our late winter group discussions revealed a lot of areas of concern that we'll address tonight but there were three general areas in education and we'll call them quality competition and accountability.

And earlier tonight our audience met with we the people partners Tom still of the Wisconsin State Journal and Neil Hinden of WRC TV to identify key questions they'd like the candidates to address in a little while. Our audience will start the Q&A. But first let's hear from the candidates. Instead of having a standard opening statement what we've decided to do instead is we're going to let each of the candidates ask the other a question a coin toss. Earlier in the evening determined the order and we begin with Mr. M.. Go ahead and ask are getting. First I'd like to thank all of the partners of We the People for this opportunity for the state superintendent candidates to meet with you. You know at a time when we are raising the standards for our students we need quality teachers in every classroom. We can not lower teacher licensing standards at all. And my question Linda is why. Why do you support teacher licensing standards which would allow someone who has no teacher preparation

and doesn't even have a bachelor's degree to teach our children in the classroom. Elizabeth what we want is for it for our kids the best teachers we can possibly obtain and the market is going to dictate. We know that there will be a large teacher shortage before law in our state as in others. Therefore the market may well require that alternative licensing is going to be necessary. We want the very best I would want them to have some teacher preparation. I would want them certainly to have some classroom management but we know that Einstein couldn't that teach physics in our high schools. As things are required right now the licensing is stricter than that and he would be excellent to teach our children if he were alive today. So it is possible that there are people out there who have wonderful experience who could do a marvelous job of teaching our kids who have not come through the regular teacher preparation. We want the

best wherever we can find them. But Linda what I'm referring to is the budget proposal for alternative licensing which would allow someone without a bachelor's degree to teach in our public schools. And you've supported that. What is the minimum standard that I understand. I believe Bill Gates did not finish his college education. Would Bill Gates not be a good teacher of computers for our kids. I believe that we need to have quality teachers in our classrooms and that we have to raise the standards for quality teachers ensuring that they have a bachelor's degree some degree of student teaching experience and teacher preparation for interrupting Mrs. Cross your question from his book Master. My question is this. I myself believe in obtaining the very best education for our students but balancing that against the taxpayers ability to pay for it. Recently in a

press release I had stated that the Madison school district is one of the highest spending districts in the state. About $10000 per capita versus about 8400 in most of our other districts yet it is one of the lowest performing Madison is in the state. So based on your experience as an administrator because you're always toting that in Madison how do you explain the fact that roughly 40 percent of your African American students at Madison West High School your school are performing only at a D grade level. Please explain that to me. The the testing data. Using standardized tests to measure academic performance is one measure. It's one tool for assessing academic performance and we do need to use standardized testing to drive good instruction. The measurements that we use other than standardized test things evaluation that

can measure the application of knowledge how students take knowledge and apply it into the real world. These are other important assessment techniques narrowing the gap the achievement gap between children of poverty and their peers is one of the most critical educational issues not only at West High School not only in Madison in Milwaukee throughout our entire state. As the principal of Madison West for nine years we have been working extensively on narrowing the achievement gap that you speak up. It's going to take a small class sizes. It's going to take addressing teenage illiteracy. It's going to take quality teachers. And that's what I was working on. MS. cross your reaction is where M.S. Tom Bell is strawberry the principal of Rufus King High School in Milwaukee is doing much better than that. And how do you explain that.

The Milwaukee and the Madison school districts have a different system related to student assignment to high schools my understanding of Rufus King High School is that it is a magnet school for students who are planning for college preparation. Madison West High School is a neighborhood high school. And it draws all of the students within that high school. We have students who will be going on to many post-secondary options. All right. Thank you. Now we're going to learn a little bit about what this job is that as head of the Department of Public Instruction the superintendent will wear a lot of different hats everything from educator to diplomat and part of being a diplomat is dealing with politics and politicians. There is no one line that best describes the job but perhaps the best word to describe what the next superintendent will need is flexibility. Good morning construction. The next superintendent will take charge of the state's education system on the first Monday in

July under their watch who will be a department of nearly 700 workers who track everything from teacher licensing test scores and lunch programs to school standards. There are some eight hundred eighty thousand public school students spread across Wisconsin from the state of Washington Island. The new superintendent both the quality and quality of education statewide 18 years in the department. Gregg Doyel has worked as the communications director for the last two superintendents Grover and John Benson and he has his perspective on here the real fight starts after Election Day. The proposed budget for education is growing too. Significantly tighten the ability of school districts and this department to provide the kind of education we've been providing in Wisconsin for many years.

Still the new superintendent will ultimately oversee how some 5 billion dollars in federal and state aid is divided up between the school. One other point. Whoever wins this election is going to get a really nice raise. The current superintendent John Benson makes just over a thousand dollars a year but his successor is going to make ninety nine thousand. And the other big part of politics will be spending a lot of time here dealing with legislators because the state runs the schools but the legislature that controls the money. Yes. Senator Judy Robson and Representative Luther Olsen are both on the legislature's Education Committee who ultimately dictate the DPR budget. Their advice is get to know the legislators. All 132 of them. Well I think it's very important that the superintendent and show that she's reachable and she's approachable and that she cares about

our issues because I think all legislators think they know a lot about education. They were either students or they were former teachers or they have kids in school so they all have their opinions of you. Yes. Education is their job. But don't make the mistake of ignoring the people under the cap. Probably not show up and come over and talk I think that's the biggest thing in the building. Learn to work with the governor and work with the legislature because really we are the state school board over here and they are the state superintendent and there has to be good communication skills and communication back and forth. So we hope that provides a little more information a little perspective about the job and about the responsibility that these two women have pledged to take on. And now it's time to learn a little more about the candidates themselves and for that we're going to turn the questions over to our audience. Again these questions fall under the headings of quality competition and accountability in education. So let's go with our first questioner.

Your name and your question are from Stevens Point of a school board member. I'll hold it for the Merry Christmas. My question to you first of all let me make a comment. I'm a very strong proponent of special education and serving students in our schools who have no special educational needs as directed by our federal law and state statutes. My question to you is in a district in my area we have declining enrollment and average children but we have increasing numbers in special ed and this is happening across the country and in our state. What would you do as a State Superintendent of Public Instruction to hold the federal government and the state government accountable for the dollars that they have promised districts and that they have written it done completely almost. We get very few percentage of what they have promised us what would you do to assure us that we would have those dollars available for us in the schools. Because remember one minute for your response Mary I can very well identify with what you're talking about. We have three hundred sixty five special education students in the high

school of 21:00 where I'm principal. You have identified one of the most critical challenges facing public education. As state superintendent at the state level we need to increase that percentage of reimbursement rate. In fact the proposed budget currently is decreasing it. It's going from 36 percent to 33 percent. That's unacceptable I will fight to increase the state aid. We'll work with the legislators so that they are understanding being an advocate for our special education children and also at the federal level. We are going to need to increase the rate which it's under 10 percent now that we're receiving from the feds. And you're absolutely right the state superintendent is going to be representing the special education children of our state at the federal level. And so we're electing the person who will be doing that in fighting for those special education children. MS. cross one minute for your response. Well as a classroom teacher of 31 years I definitely care about all of our students including our special ed students. And I've been saying since the beginning of this campaign that

what I want to do is to get the federal government to give us the 40 percent. Of the funding which apparently they said that they intended to give when they place the mandate on all of our school districts and all of our states. Now the figures that I've found are 18 percent as the current funding level. It's under them. OK I don't remember where I found the figures but at any rate. So what we need to do is to get them up to 40 percent. How would I go about it. I would work lobbying through the state chief School Officers organization like the National Governor's organization. I would lobby Congress. I would lobby with the president I would lobby with the secretary of education to get that money up to 40 percent. I believe very strongly in personal integrity I believe very strongly in government integrity. Congress said we'll fund at 40 percent. They should be. That'll bring monies into our schools. We can use the other does your time is up because we're master 30 seconds for a response. Well as an administrator working with budgets it's not 18 percent.

It's an average of under 10 percent it's somewhere around nine point eight actually. Not to quibble about figures but the point is it's not enough. And we are going to have to clearly invest in the special education so we don't pit at the local level special education children against regular education children. Mary very quickly did the answer your question. Somewhat let me explain. We only get 12 percent from the feds by the time the state takes their top half off we get 7 aham percent Stevens Point. But how do you feel. You both said that you would lobby with Congress in the federal government but how do you feel the money should be sent to school districts should it come through the DP for some monies are taken off or should it come directly to the school districts. 30 seconds for a response. I believe it should come through the DP but I would want to look at how it is then dispersed so that it is equitable and fairly dispersed to the local school districts but I do believe it should come through the deep mistrust 30 seconds of it.

If we can get more money to the schools in the US to the classrooms by not going through that perhaps that would be the best route. OK this is our second question. Please say your name and then ask your question. My name is Ted I shouted and I heard someone mention greens before and I think greens are something that everyone can relate to. My question is what grade would you give Wisconsin's public school district. Because if you win this election your be a ministry of that or superintendent of that. And after you give your grade What are two things you would do during the next four years to increase that grade. OK Miss Cross you'll respond first OK. I would give us on the whole a B. On the other hand some of the school districts as we know aren't performing that well. So we have to deal with individual areas. Milwaukee is the area unfortunately that we always have to talk about is an area where some of the schools have done very poorly have struggled and failed to deal well with their students and where we have needed parental school choice.

What I would do to improve things for our schools first of all what I believe is that we've got to get the best education. As I said that we can for all of our students. But with the ability of the taxpayers to pay I have presented a plan yesterday in which we would not cost the taxpayers additional dollars. But we would get monies to the school monies to the teachers and this would be through endowments. This would be establishing local endowments and those who are generous and want to contribute to their schools would be doing so and I think this is a wonderful way of caring about your community. OK Miss Krause we're out of time as her master. We have good schools in Wisconsin and we have great teachers and we really had a long and progressive tradition of quality education in Wisconsin. But what we have to ensure is that consistency of quality throughout our entire state and

we have to ensure that every child regardless of where they live or what their income level is of the languages they might speak at home has that opportunity of a quality education. And we do that through small class sizes with quality teachers. We need to emphasize reading in our schools at all levels. And we must increase parental involvement. That is the way to achieve that goal of increasing academic performance in all our schools. Miss Ross you have 30 seconds to respond. As a classroom teacher I know that parental involvement is usually the number one factor. In achieving success for our students so we definitely want more of that. I've been saying that I want our students to be reading at the first grade level by the end of first grade. Anything less than that is unacceptable because that is the keystone of their education. We want them to be successful all the way through and I want to give you an opportunity to respond because Mr. Mestre did I'm not I'm not sure you gave a grade. Then how do you have a grade to give

to. Again I think the issue I'll be happy to grade the schools and I'd say overall that Wisconsin when you look at them nationally you're probably looking at an A-minus. We we have very good schools and Wisconsin and I think that sometimes we we don't recognize that quality when you look at it nationally. Thank you for your answers. I urge everyone to hear what they want. I'm hoping tonight we're here. How are you going to go about that with specifics because I think it's very important that we get beyond what we are for when and how we get to what we're for so absolutely 30 30 seconds to each of you if you would would you like OK yes but the fix Mr. M. you first. Well small class size. We need to invest in the sage program. And again one of what's very disheartening to me is you look at the proposed budget and we're cutting sage sage works. I have traveled throughout our state. I have talked to parents I have talked

to teachers I have talked to educators and this is a common sense that people agree on a smaller class size with a quality teacher will work. And so we have to invest in smaller class size for moving it to middle income children right now and pulling it back in its cross. And I believe in Sage also have said it's one of the best programs John Benson has put into place. I stand behind it. Also I would empower teachers I would talk to the teachers and find out what's great in their classrooms that we can tout to the world. And I would find out what isn't going well. What are the impediments that are preventing you the classroom teacher from doing your very best job with your teachers. What can a state superintendent with the resources of the Department of Public Instruction behind me do to remove those impediments so you can do your very best job for your students. Thank you. Thank you Ted. Then seven orphans from Stoughton in Venice I believe you're a small business man and you have a question about student performance. Yes we we continually see people my wife Beth and I own a business in

Stoughton and we continually see people come across to come in to apply for a job. They do not even know how to spell their own street name on the street that they live. They've completed high school they've gone through the public school system we have one individual who came to us who could not even change out who cannot add who cannot subtract. These are basic skills that we're looking for. What would you do to prevent this how do these individuals get through the school system let alone get past the first grade without knowing these skills and is Burmeister one minute for your response. Well the high school graduation test will now be at the local level throughout our state. Each local district will determine the weight of that high school graduation test that will be one criteria in in high school graduation. But we're also going to have to look at what you've described real evaluations and measurements that assure us that we have high standards that our students really can take the knowledge they have and use it in the real

world really apply information and knowledge. High standards will drive high performance. And this has to be our highest priority with our children that we raise the standards hold our students accountable to the model Wisconson academic standards use standardized testing where where it's appropriate to measure and drive good instruction and to ensure that we are sending students out into the world after high school graduation who can contribute to the economic prosperity and behind us ministers and Miss Cross one minute for your reply. I share your concerns I too I'm a business person of 16 years in addition to being a 31 year classroom teacher and 23 years head of my English department. And what I will tell you is this in my opinion the main reason for the problems that you're seeing is social promotion. 31 years I've been teaching social promotional hit has been one of those. It's one of those devastating policies that's been in place and

we've pushed kids along. They can't read they can't do their math they can't do the basics. And we've just pushed them along because we were told it would hurt their little psyche you know as a teacher you know said No I don't want to push them along. But usually your administrators are telling you got to do it you got to do it you can't hold them back even a parent wants to hold their child back in administrations Oh you can't do that. They'll hurt their little psyche if they're not in with their you know their peers. I say it hurts the whole psyche a whole lot more longterm if we push them along and as you say they can't count change. They don't have the grammar skills they don't have any need. That's a minute Mr. M. 30 seconds. We have to invest in small class sizes that and have quality teachers so that we can have that interaction on a daily basis between teacher and student to hold students accountable to high standards. Jennifer you Senshi to fit into just one short follow up play you say about the high school standard test isn't it too late.

Well we have standardized testing it grades in Wisconsin at grades 3 4 8 10 and then we'll have the high school graduation test at Grades 11 and 12. That is the Student Assessment related to standardized testing which will help us to drive good instruction to improve instruction. We also have to have that every day ongoing assessment in the classroom in small enough classes with quality teachers emphasizing reading. Because I've been a teacher and I'm principal at each level and have this Ross 30 seconds. I agree we need and we do have the testing and that's the reason for the testing to find out if our students are doing well or not if they're falling behind then we need to remediate them. The graduation test is a sign of Unfortunately the lack of confidence in our system of the things that you're saying the business has come to the governors and said you know we've get We've been getting your graduates but they can't make change. So business people you know want a guarantee in the way of a graduation

test that these kids can at least do the basics. Susan her next question follows nicely in what we're talking about about accountability and what role parents play in their children's education please introduce yourself and ask your question. Cynthia Schmall I'm from the Kiel Area School District Board of Education. Both of you have identified parental involvement as primary factors in student success. How can you build bridges between our schools and our students families to emphasize more parental ownership in their child's behavior and academic success. Ms Cross your answer first. Well I've been working with parents for 31 years and in fact as a teacher I have stood in local Prentiss for them. So the little Latin phrase meaning standing in the place of the parents striving to do the very best job I can do with their students. And so you do need to be communicating with the parents in various ways as to how their students are doing. And when there are problems when there are successes and so on. One of the things of course that helps parents

is if they have found that their school system is not doing the job. And as we said Milwaukee is unfortunately big sample at this point. We have to give the parents the choice of a better school in which to place their their children. And at that point when they're really involved with those schools you know they are really buying into the education even if they haven't before. Now I'm a public school teacher always have been. And so my ultimate vision as State Superintendent of Public Instruction is that all of our public schools will be zero so well. You're out of time that everyone will go to our public. I apologize forgive me for interrupting MS Burr master at your response. Parental involvement is critical. Parents are the first and the most important teachers of their children. And as a teacher and an administrator and the mother of three children I've seen both personally and professionally. The difference that parental involvement can make in academic achievement children. We're going to have to break down the barriers to

parents becoming involved. We have to have the school become the center of the community so families and parents can come around. The education of our children. We can have adult literacy programs we can have intergenerational programs. We can have community centers that are located near our schools so that we can have interactive relationships between community and parents and our children. The opportunities are so exciting right now to bring parents and citizens and children together. Thank you Mr. Minister MS cross you have 30 seconds. Well I do terribly. Do very much believe in parental involvement. And so the more we work with our parents the more we encourage them to be involved in the education of their children the better off we're going to be generation by generation. We heard some very specific things there did you hear anything new and different. It's

not a happening in schools no. I guess what I would like is if they could each give me an example of how they successfully built that bridge from their past experience. Miss Bransford sure I'd like to first say that as a candidate I've been throughout our state and I've seen so many wonderful models Sherman Elementary and Claire how elementary in Green Bay where the Family Resource Center is right next to the school. But an example that I have from West High School where I've been principal for nine years was when a group of parents came together around what they called sort of a support network. It's harder to be involved in your parents education as your child gets older. I think we see this as parents of middle and high school and they came out together in this war and a support network. I apologize Miss Cross a specific bridge built that you can talk about yes I had a special education student in the class this year

and the young man and I developed such a wonderful report. The father was very much involved in the education of his child to the point where he wanted that child in my classes for second semester and it turned out that I wouldn't have been teaching that particular grade level. And so I couldn't have taught him again but you know dad and the child worked together. The work that he needed to do I worked with him and it was wonderful. Thank you very much. Thank you sir. Your names are in your question. Good evening my name is John Weinberger. I'm a school board member from NOAA Grove one of the things I heard this evening was that you're all interested in raising or increasing teacher salaries or getting people into profession. However one of the things that we have to deal with is school board is the mandates that come down from state and also the revenue caps that we are required to work under in our school district we are a high value property property value district where our tax value is already excuse me our

tax bill rate is 15 dollars and eighty cents now that's one of the highest in the state. It's very difficult to ask our people to raise taxes via a referendum. Your question so how would you propose getting money to us to fight for additional money for teachers whose Burmeister won that of your response. Well I would guess is a weird number you're also seeing the rising heating and transportation health care costs making it very difficult to have revenue flexibility at the local level we have to hold the state to the two thirds commitment for funding and we have to provide more revenue flexibility so that school board member such as yourself aren't having to make the difficult choices between a leaky roof and a school safety program or being able to compensate teachers commensurate with what they're contributing to your community. Miss Cross won. Well the plan that I proposed yesterday would give you more money without causing the taxpayers more money.

My opponent has been talking about removing the revenue caps and according to the Legislative Fiscal Bureau that would have cost you seven hundred more dollars on the average as of last year so each year seven hundred additional dollars in could your people could you afford that. I don't think so. So my plan is to get more dollars into education into the school systems to the teachers. And like I say would not cost additional money because it would be from endowments. Now I believe that as a teacher if I become a State Superintendent of Public Instruction it will be so much easier to recruit more new teachers as we have this teacher shortage because these teachers will see the Wisconsin respects teachers to such an extent that they have hired a classroom teacher to head education for the state. As for Mr. 30 second. Well I don't think that my opponent understands how the system works

and I don't believe your plan is a plan I believe it was a press release and your charge that somehow I'm going to remove revenue caps and raise everyone's property taxes is false and misleading and you know that. And so it's a political attack. The state superintendent doesn't have the authority to repeal or impose the revenue caps the state superintendent is the chief advocate for our children and must be the constitutional position that tells the real story of what's going on in your school district and then works in a bipartisan fashion to come up with a school funding system that will work. It's crossed very quickly in response. You tell me that you're the administrator. You're the leader. I'm only the teacher. I've presented a plan. What is your plan you're making excuses Linda. I have never said that to you that you're the teacher and I'm the administrator I'm a third generation Wisconsin teacher. My mother was a teacher both my grandmothers were teachers. My husband in the audience is a

teacher and a principal now. We have dedicated our lives. But I'm a teacher and I've been an administrator and I have to put in three years. So back to the money issue for a moment and continue the discussion about revenue caps and Miss Cross you referred earlier to giving parents more ability to choose where their children go to school and now that leads to our next question. Introduce yourself and ask your question. My name is Kathy Atkinson and I'm a teacher in Waukesha. And as a social studies teacher I firmly believe that public education is the foundation of a democracy providing us with an educated citizenry and at the same time we have programs such as the voucher system in Milwaukee. We have revenue caps and we have problems of their school funding formulas and these tend to drain the resources out of that very public education system. So my question is as the head of DP I how do you propose to maintain the adequate funding and resources so that every child every future citizen in

Wisconsin gets a high quality education. Miss Cross your last request. I do want to be the superintendent of public instruction for all of our students not just our public school students all of our students because that's good for them. That's good for our economy. It's good for all of us. But yes I do believe in parental school choice. When the schools are public schools are struggling and not doing the job. I graduated from John Marshall High School in Milwaukee I got a wonderful education there. So I want to make sure that the problems of the Milwaukee schools are solved I believe in local control. So what will MP us allow me to do to help them. But I will put in extra effort into solving those problems where there are difficulties so that as I said all of our public schools will be so wonderful that parents even with choice will say I want my kids in our public schools because the public schools are the best place where they can get the best education in the

fermenter. Well I believe your question was how would as state superintendent I ensure that we have adequate school funding. I don't think the answer is through private school vouchers. What the state superintendent must be is that chief executive advocate who speaks for the children and the public schools and then works with the legislators and the governor. In ensuring that we take the recent school funding case of the of the standard that we will ensure a quality education for every child in Wisconsin and the state superintendent is the elected official who will work with bringing parents and educators and citizens and the legislators together to define that standard and then to work from that standard to ensure that we have a school funding system that puts our kids first and ensures quality education continuing in this state.

Cross Miss Cross you have 30 seconds to respond. Well I have put forth a plan. I believe certainly in our wonderful public schools. I've been a citizen legislator slit citizen who's been involved in politics working with legislators on both sides of the aisle. I will continue to advocate for education. Like I say I have put forth a plan. I believe that if we are creative enough and determined enough we can find the solutions to education problems. You know we teachers find all sorts of ways of accomplishing things in maybe unusual ways when we don't have the exact resources. Did you get your answer. I guess my only follow it would be from his crime scene in looking at a voucher system which takes money out of public schools and puts it into the private schools. I'm not quite sure how your plan would be to to improve these public schools. Now taking the very money away we are improving those schools by the competition and we have found out from Milwaukee public schools from representatives of Milwaukee Public Schools that the new

ideas that they have been putting into place have been stimulated by the competition of choice so competition for our economy which our government is based on raises all boats. It's raising the boats in the wadi But like I say I would put special effort into Milwaukee into those schools that are having problems to make sure that we improve them that we solve the problems. I've been waiting for 9 years to roll up my sleeves to get that job done. You're out of time it's been out there where will the money come from. Well I don't think it's going to come from Linda's plan. I don't understand how you're going to. Well it's not going to come from the state superintendent. It's going to come from the unification through the efforts of a strong state superintendent who advocates for children who advocates for quality education who advocates for the public schools bringing people together around defining the standard and then working with the legislature to come up with our school funding system that is responsive to taxpayers. The

legislators have the power and the authority to repeal or impose thank you very much Chad thank you. This is Diana ski I franchise for that. You're a high school teacher from New Berlin and you want to take issue with something you heard here tonight. Well my son is in Madison right now and he's thinking about being a teacher and what he has been told is he will have to go through hoops. He will have to go for a national teacher certification. He will have to yes he will have to end up going through several different steps to become a master teacher. There are several requirements in a lot of student teaching that a teacher needs to go through before becoming a teacher. How do you reconcile the idea that I could tell him to go to McDonald's. And and worked there for five years or joined the Army for five years and he's as qualified as he would be not only spending five years in college but several years training.

For one minute. Well I can't and I can't reconcile that and that's why I oppose the alternative licensing proposal in the in the budget because at the very time that we're raising standards for students just as as you're saying we have to have high standards for teachers so we have quality teachers in our schools. Miss Cross one minute for your answer. Well no. You have said the your son's been told that he would have to have national certification as far as I've heard need to go through teacher testing. He would need to pass the test. I believe right now it's a state test for Wisconsin. And that is for the 2004 graduates. What we do want is is high quality teachers. We have been talking about the three steps in the new licensure private process and I believe the reason for this again is because of lack of confidence. Unfortunately in the

system we've had in place and I think particularly in places such as Massachusetts you know we've heard the stories of the teachers who couldn't pass you know a real basic test. So people want to make sure that the teachers do have you know more qualifications. But again you know I found personally that when I was going into my teacher training you know my teacher training courses not many of them really helped me to be a good classroom teacher. My knowledge time and so on is what I know is what I just asked. Then how going to make if the teaching experience did not help you. How would working at McDonald's or being in the Army make you a better teacher. I'm not sure that working at McDonald's would but if you're in the military you understand discipline you understand authority you understand chain of command these are things that our students need to understand about working with other people in life.

They need to understand that each one of us has our place. Each one of us is working together in one way or another and we've got to know how to cooperate how to work and so one you get a teacher who's been in the military for years and that person can command. Respect and MS are master 30 seconds. Well the issue here is that we want teachers who have a bachelor's degree. All right. That's that's going to be the minimum standard that you have a bachelor's degree not what's proposed in what you're alluding to that you could have a high school diploma and then other work experience or military or whatever. And so where the where the disagreement between my opponent and I is that she feels you could the minimum could be a high school diploma. And I feel that that is a lowering of standards that we must have individuals going into teaching who have a bachelor's degree and then other related experience can be very beneficial. As for Mr. thing very much so they were we've been hearing a lot about how the new superintendent will be an

advocate for all students so let's take a question from the largest district in the state. Introduce yourself you're from Milwaukee. Yes my name is Ola Johnson and I am from Milwaukee. My question is. You say you advocate for the students the size of the schools that are in Milwaukee compared to the suburban area schools compared to the private schools. I've had to make a choice to go to a private school because of the size which costs me. I want my daughter to go to public schools but the schools have 15 students. Fifteen hundred students in them compared to five 600 students in either suburban area schools or private schools. Why are those school sizes so large. In the Milwaukee Public Schools This is Milwaukee the largest. Fifteen hundred kids in a school is cross you'll answer first. Well when I attended John Marshall High School it was a junior senior high school and we had 3000 students that would have been in

1964 in the spring of 1964. It often happens in. Urban areas what we can do to improve those situations often times is to make schools within schools so halls or different you know they give them different names but try to group students into smaller groups with four or five teachers who work with them and mentor them and make them feel like you know they're a smaller community within a bigger school. Oftentimes this helps with things such as the isolation factor getting lost in what we've been seeing again. Another unfortunate school shooting so often we're seeing the kids who feel alienated who don't feel that they're part of the classroom. You know the school community and so on is their own need to do something to make them see that the time is Burr master and again the question is why are class sizes so large in Milwaukee class sizes or size of schools schools size of schools. Well I'm the principal

and have been for nine years of a twenty one hundred student high school so I understand what you're talking about. What we have tried to do in as large a school as 21:00 is to focus on class size. And that's. Why again we should be looking to what works in education in lowering class size with quality teachers is one of the most effective ways to create a sense of community within the school to increase the interaction between young people and the adults in their learning environment to increase the opportunities to emphasize reading to give positive evaluation. We have that's the route to go in these larger schools. The reason that we've gone to larger schools is of course a funding issue because it is now extremely expensive to be building high schools and so many districts have gone to a larger high school is cross.

Well one of the things of course that you can do in larger schools also is have daily homeroom meetings. Again this is bringing students together in the smaller community with one teacher and giving them some direction and again a feeling of a small group that's working together. In our school for example because we are not nearly as large as your school is school we don't even have home rooms more than probably seven times a year because we don't really need that hour. So that's time small enough. That is your question. Right exactly. Do you have a follow up. Yes I do. How can you continue to bring in more and more students each year. Ninth grade. There may be 30 more students that have come tonight grade 10th grade and so on. You're still housing more and more students in the school yet you say that there's not enough money to build another high school for that particular area. How can you think that you're going to be giving

effective education to 20 100 kids in the same high school with no more teachers than you already have. You can't you can't you can't and you have identified what is facing public education in our state in rising in Roman districts. These are critical times in public education and you see it. And you know it you can't you have to be investing in small class sizes and public schools that create a sense of community where parents can get involved and you can really be preparing and working with students and providing assessment and high standards that will prepare them to be productive citizens when they leave. That's the challenge ahead of us. MS. cross well. I think I've identified one way by having these you know schools within schools that helps to some extent. But I think there's another thing that can help us and that is apprenticeship programs because not only is it good for students but it does take them out of the building. You

know part of the time they're elsewhere getting their real work experience then they're coming back into the classroom. So you have students who are in the building on a part time basis in a sense and not so many students in the building all at the same time. That's time thank you thank you. You are an education major. Your name is Amy Washburn and that's your question. I'm a second year sophomore and the school of education here and the way the program works right now it is my practicum is a year away. OK. And I'm already halfway through my program and that's how it works and all the programs are packed. Coming your student teaching is just about the last thing you do. And the way I see it that kind of has a dual effect for people like me who are very motivated to become teachers. My motivation drops as I go through the program until the very end when hopefully when I'm still in it I get to actually go in the classroom and for other people you need your questioner. First of all your data.

The laces for being in the School of Education are out of you considering issues about teacher attention in teacher recruitment. What changes would you propose for teacher training programs. Mr A quick minute if you would. You bet you've captured what I consider from my 25 years of experience as a teacher and a principal as the most critical thing in teacher education we have to get people just like you into the classroom as soon as possible and as a state superintendent you are on the University of Wisconsin Board of Regents and I would use my voice and position there to be working with the UW system and to look at how our school of education can be really responsive to what you're bringing up. And congratulations that's once cross. I remember the problem too. I went to Marquette University and it wasn't until sophomore year that I could even take my very first course in education. You know so it was general education first. And then finally you know ed psych. And I've got to say that it was a disappointment you know even

after I got that. So it is it's a rough road to hoe and you know we didn't do student teaching and last semester are second to the last semester so I know what you mean it's hard. I would have you shadowing teachers for one thing get you into the classroom shadowing. I would if you you know could find the time and I think you'd like to do it help some of our teachers do some of the you know helping in correcting papers and you know seeing how it works. We could use extra people who are being trained to be teachers you know helping us aiding us. It would be good for you it would be good for us. MISS CROSS Thank you Miss for Master 30 seconds please. The practicum experience that Linda describes is absolutely critical. As soon as possible. Also what is going to be important I believe is once you get into the teaching profession that we give you the kind of support professional development and the mentorship that the new teacher licensing reform calls for.

So that in those first three to five years when we lose a lot of our very talented teachers that you will have the the support to stay in the teaching profession. Unfortunately that's all the time we have for questions the times go. Time goes by so fast doesn't it but we must move along and we're going to move on now to closing statements again. The order was established before the show. Miss Cross will go first and you have 90 seconds for your closing state ank you very much. Again thank you very much for this opportunity to express our feelings our passions for education and for doing the job. I have been a classroom teacher for 31 years for 23 years have had my English department at Horton both high school and for 16 years have been a business person. I bring to the job the State Superintendent of Public Instruction the commonsense point of view of the classroom teacher always asking the question what's best for our kids. My philosophy is to balance the very best quality education we can

get for our students with the parents and other taxpayers ability to pay for it. I've offered a plan that balances the taxpayers ability to pay what the quality that parents and taxpayers demand. I call it my ABC is a is for accountability. I promise I pledge to you a state superintendent that I will be very accountable and accessible. I will have the best open door policy to listen to you to all of you want to talk to me about education. Open door open classroom on line town meetings regular town meetings any other one that we can have. That will get the best education for our students. B is the best interest of our kids. Everything that I do I pledge will be based on the question of what's best for our kids not what's best for any any special interest group. C is for commonsense. I believe that the commonsense of a classroom teacher is very important. It's not bureaucracy. We have to solve problems.

Because your time is up. As for Mr. 90 seconds for your closing statement the voters of Wisconsin have a very clear choice on April 3rd. Voters will determine which candidate has the educational experience the qualifications and the record of accomplishment to lead our state schools and to ensure quality education for all our children. I am a teacher and a principal of 25 years. I have been at all levels. I have had the full developmental experience from pre-K through the senior year in high school have worked with the technical college system the UW system. I can bring together parents the citizens of Wisconsin educators and the legislators around our shared value and responsibility to put our children first and to ensure the legacy of quality public schools in Wisconsin. I need your support and help on April 3rd. The future of our children and the public schools will be determined by the

choices we make in the next years. Thank you thank you. Thank you very much thank you to our candidates. Did Miss Cross does Miss Cross get a response. Greta it's time to be on the clock and I think it's time. I'm sorry. We want to we want you gone but wish we could go on for for a while longer but that is all the time we have. Thank you both of our candidates and for everybody's questions I hope it helps you make a decision and remember the election is April 3rd so get out and vote and if you'd like more information on these two candidates you want to look for Sunday's edition of the Wisconsin State Journal. Also Linda Cross will answer listener questions during a Wisconsin public radio call in on Tuesday March the twenty seventh from 3:00 until 4:00. And Elizabeth Burmeister will do the same one Wednesday March the twenty eighth. Also from 3:00 in so for I'm Jerry Hoffman And I'm Susan Simon for all of the We The People partner thank you so much for watching and good night. Good night. We the People. Wisconsin State Superintendent of Public Instruction to date

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