Wisconsin Week; 136

Tonight's production of Wisconsin week is made possible in part by a n our pipeline company a subsidiary of the coastal corporation providing reliable natural gas service to Wisconsin's homes businesses and industries for nearly 40 years. Welcome I'm Joe Smith and Milwaukee. And I'm Dave Iverson in Madison. Tonight on Wisconsin week the legislature finishes work on the state budget. Governor Thompson and speaker Loftus will join us. Also tonight we'll toxic fish spelled doom for the Friday night fish fry. Later some thoughts on abortion as we await the Supreme Court decision. And finally a round table review of Sixties nostalgia. First though the summary of the week's news Joe.

Thank you Dave. The twisters are back at least three tornadoes touched down across the southern third of the state Monday at Lake Delton five people were injured and three unfun Tanna. Other tornadoes touched down in Marcus and Ithaca and Richland Center. The state has a new senator. Republican Representative Margaret Farrow easily defeated Thomas Hickey Tuesday in a special election to replace Susan Engle lighter and the latter was named head of the U.S. Small Business Association. Earlier this year if you drive in Wisconsin you have to buckle up for two more years. Governor Thompson signed a bill Wednesday extending the state's mandatory seatbelt law. Thursday the National Wildlife Federation released a report warning don't eat the fish from Lake Michigan. The report said that eating more than a few meals a year of most Lake Michigan fish poses high cancer risks. The DNR immediately challenge that report. Also Thursday the biggest gig of the season Summerfest cranked up the volume and set the table for 11 days of music food and fun at Milwaukee's lakefront. This is summer fest twenty second year. More now on the state lobbying probe secretary of

state Douglas Follett this morning charged three state lobbyists with making illegal contributions to Governor Tommy Thompson's campaign. The three named are Thomas Clauson a lobbyist at the time of the violation for the costo corporation. Robert Trudeau a lobbyist for St. Paul fire and marine insurance. And Daniel Meyer a lobbyist for Consolidated papers incorporated. Now in addition letters of reprimand were sent to twenty two other prominent lobbyists including William How-To executive director of common cause of Wisconsin former governor Toni Earle and Evans up owes a former chairman of the State Elections Board and the checks are in the mail. No it's not. Yes it is really. Thursday state lawmakers reactivated the plan to send a one time tax credit checks to taxpayers as a special committee unanimously approve the new state budget. The checks will cost the state one hundred seventy eight million dollars and no one will get a check for more than $260. And now with more on the budget Here's Dave. We do in fact have a new state budget earlier today both the Senate and the Assembly passed that budget and now goes to

the desk of this man. Joining us now Governor Tommy Thompson. Governor before we get to the budget that story was overshadowed if briefly this morning by a bit of a flap you had with Speaker Loftus in which you charge that he was being untrustworthy. Can you elaborate. Well I sometimes you say things in the heat of the battle that you wish you would have said later on I called the speaker and apologized I was somewhat concerned about a press release that a conference that took place on Wednesday revealing AC Nielsen Company and I was doing sort of a slow burn that erupted into my statements this morning which I felt bad about and I apologize to the speaker later on today. Were you unhappy about anything specifically in the budget that you didn't get the arts tourism combinational or example or the development fund the science that you wanted. Well there's no question I feel that we should have had the additional money for the development fund. Wisconsin's been very successful we've got a lot of companies who want to come into Wisconsin we've got a lot of employees that have been trained by using the training funds and we can be

even more successful but without the money will just have to do with what the legislature gave us and we'll try and make ends meet but not getting arts. Is that a is that a major disappointment for sure it is I think. Pretty well the majority opinion in the legislature and both the Senate the assembly was for a combination of tourism and arts but it didn't come to pass will you have to take those things have been in the legislative process for 20 years and you win some you lose some but overall I think the budget is a good one it was a bipartisan budget was a good budget when we introduced in January. It got better through the joint finance through the Senate in the assembly process. And I'm looking forward to reviewing it now and making the final determinations before I sign it or into law sometime the latter part of July. This really is a budget in which bipartisanship became a reality passed unanimously in the Senate almost in the assembly. Does this mean there won't be a single line item veto on your part. No and there will be some vetoes but I hope not as many as there were a couple years ago and live a lot of things that we worked on during the course of the budgetary journey.

We reach agreements on mass transit and the large bridge and we made some. Agreements on the age and school question. And so there are some things that have already been agreed to that will not be vetoed but overall I'll have to spend a great deal of time now a scrutinizing and finding out exactly what the legislature added or deleted and make the necessary decisions I'll be talking to a lot of different people over the course of the next several weeks and make the final decisions towards the end of July. Is there anything that's jumping out at you right now that you really want to pull out that red pen and attend to. Well no not at this point in time because I really haven't had a chance to see all the little language you know the legislature and the conference committee worked up until midnight last night and they passed it this afternoon. So it's impossible to for me at this point time to say that this particular page on or this particular item should be vetoed but there are there are always are going to be some vetoes and over the course of the next several weeks many legislators many different people becoming into simian and you will find that there will have to be some beetles in fact I'm sure even the speaker will encourage me to be told some things.

We will talk to the speaker next Governor Thompson thanks very much. Thank you. Have a good weekend. Speaker Tom Loftus has now joined us as well from the state capitol to give us his assessment. First of all you're unhappy that the governor called John trustworthy. Well the governor called to apologize. I've known the governor a long time I. I don't even think he needed to call. I've had those days myself. And this will be the end of that. Enough said then. What about this budget as a whole. Mr. Speaker in a sense isn't it Tommy Thompson's budget. It seems like the Democrats really put up very little resistance to the kinds of things that the governor wanted. Terms of Corrections and many other things. Well the governor received everything he asked for and I suppose if he had known that at the beginning he would have asked for more important things. But it is a bipartisan budget and it's a pretty much a

status quo budget. With the surplus. And that should give you the ability to pass it without much trouble quite frankly. What are you suggesting that he should have asked for that perhaps he didn't what would you like to have seen in this next fiscal year. Well I I personally feel that we're we're going backwards in the area of education and not keeping up with our competitors in Japan and. In the united Europe I think the environment is just something that's been neglected in this state. But we made a little progress in those areas and I think that the process people like the process. And it will go from there. Does that leave you with that much to run on come 1990 that this was kind of a subdued and gentle month of the day at the state capitol. Well I don't intend to run what's in this budget or not in this budget or any of the past budgets. This is my 13th year in the legislature I'm serving with my fifth governor. I've never found any of them were elected or defeated based on their budgets. Well how

does this one compare to the other four. Well. Almost devoid of this governor compares governor. Yeah well. This governor is a friend of mine and all the others have been friends of mine. So I'd like a man who's running for governor. Tom Loftus thanks very much for joining us today. And now we turn to a fish story. The National Wildlife Federation says eating fish from Lake Michigan is a health hazard. This federation presented its report at a news conference this week. Our Big Blue jeans are. That. The consumption of a number of species of fish from Lake Michigan provide unreasonable and unacceptable risk for those humans who consume them. We are recommending that children under the age of 15 pregnant women nursing mothers and females of the childbearing years NOT BE LATE FOR out at all. They simply have unacceptable levels of toxic poisons in them today.

With me to discuss this report on Lake Michigan fish are Dr. Henry Anderson chief of environmental epidemiology for the Wisconsin State Division of Health. And Mr. Dean highly legislative chairman of the Wisconsin Federation of Great Lakes sports fishing clubs and Dr. Anderson first of all let me ask you is it dangerous to eat fish from like Michigan. Well we don't believe the term dangerous would be appropriate. Everything we eat carries some risk. The public health view is that if you follow the existing. State Advisory for consumption consuming fish that will be adequately protected from a public health standpoint. All right so you're saying that the situation really isn't dangerous but would you agree that the pollutions in Lake Michigan are really the problem and that's what we need to well clean up. Well certainly a great strides have been made to clean up the Great Lakes the levels in the fish have gone down nearly 80 percent over the last decade. We have much that could be done we'd like to have no toxic chemicals in the fish at all. And clearly

we need to have more action get people focused on keeping at this long term activity. Mr. HOLLY you represent a lot of people who go out to the lake enjoy theirselves on the weekends or during the week to fish. Are they concerned about what they're catching now. Oh yes of course. We've always been concern and we've been very very active in helping can contribute to the lakes cleanup. However we feel that it's very inappropriate at this time for the National Wildlife Federation to come out with this particular advisory when we feel that our paid professional people in Madison in this state have been moving forward on a very good program with which the whole community can live with. It's just a matter of credibility both the National Wildlife Federation and and the state officials have been working off the same database. But coming up with different results so who do we believe here Dr. Anderson. Well I think that's up to the public. Clearly our charge is a state health agency and the universities that we work with that's our job that's

what we're trained to do. We're public health specialists. On the other hand for the first time the National Wildlife Federation has taken an interest in getting involved in public health issues. This visor is are not a simple thing to do it's a very complex set of activities. Mr. Hadley what about safe risks are there safe risks involved here. Well I've heard it indicated to me that if you drove a few hundred miles to go fishing took your fish home you took more risk coming over in your car than it did eating your fish. I am not a biologist or a technical person but that makes reasonable sense to me. But it gets pretty scary when we hear reports about knotting not eating apples about chicken and now fish. It really makes one wonder if there's anything safe to eat. Yes I believe that that's the truth. We don't look at this so much as a health problem. We think that the help situation is adequately covered. There's something political going on here and we think that the Wildlife Federation made a big mistake in reading our public coming into it the way they did at

this time. It was sort of like a melodrama as far as I'm concerned. When I saw the man say we want these people mad because then they'll do something. It is an angry people who do something it's sensible organized people who are right but don't you agree and Dr. Anderson you can answer this that because of this report there probably will be something done about the about the toxins in in like Michigan now. Well I think there's a great deal already being done. It's a matter of what more can be done in. And that's really where we come down but a lot of activity is going on and it takes a long time. The advisories we review and update them every six months. It's active. Do you agree with there or with the Federation that pregnant women and mothers who are nursing should keep away from the fish from the lake. We don't feel at all fish should be avoided from Lake Michigan our advisory is covered by two whole classes of fish are advised not to be consumed by women and children that is a target group. We just don't

feel that the data is there that the risk is sufficient to say all fish right Mr. Howley even trying to build up the fishing industry in the state. How are you going to know how you're going to circumvent this how are you going to get confidence back. Well we've had advisories every time a new chemical is discovered found in the water we have an advisory and we're thankful for that. We feel the public interest is being served. We're going to reel back on this one because a 6 million organization member organization has really got the clout but we feel that we're going to recover from it but in the meantime a lot of non-necessary damages will be done to the fishery. Dean Holly I thank you and Dr. Henry Anderson thank you for being with us. All across the country people are awaiting the most controversial Supreme Court decision of the decade what

will happen to Roe versus Wade. We expect that decision on Monday so we thought we would take a moment to see what it may mean for the state of Wisconsin. Joining me to assess that are representative Susan Virgil ront a strong pro-life anti-abortion representative and also Representative Barbara Stein who comes down on the pro-choice side of this equation. Representative Virgil What's your sense I guess at this point how much do you think the Supreme Court may overturn this and where will that leave us in our state. Well my sense is right now because of the delay that definitely they'll be some change made in the Roe versus Wade decision then I I feel that any change at all that that helps us protect the life of the unborn is is a victory for the pro-life people. Do you do you share that assessment of a senator saying that some change is likely. And if so where will that put the ball back in your court. Well I do expect that there will be in all likelihood some change although I regret that. I expect that there will be some restrictions placed on it. Safe and

Healthful access to abortion. I also think it's possible that the time period during a pregnancy when an abortion would become available might also be altered and yes those kinds of things those sorts of changes will put the bad ball back in the legislatures court though much as Wade is turned over in any form or in some form. Does that mean that Wisconsin's old anti-abortion law is back on the books or not. That depends it depends on what the court does for example. The Missouri statute had a variety of restrictions such as disallowing use of public hospitals requiring abortions that were conducted after the 16th week of pregnancy to be performed in a in a hospital those kinds of things if we. If we hear or see those kinds of restrictions placed then the legislature will probably have bills to to do those sorts of things here in Wisconsin. What about the one of more controversial aspects of this which is the potential criminal sanctions against women who have abortions which is the law currently in Wisconsin.

If Roe versus Wade went away you can criticize representative or Dr for saying that women have to take some responsibility for this it's not all on the physician. Current law as I understand it would be that women would potentially face up to a couple of years in prison for having an abortion. Do you support that. No I don't and I've been I think I've been criticized for saying that that's something we have to consider if we open up that statute certainly work. If we're going to have criminal sanctions for the abortionists there has to be some culpability on the part of the woman in order to have the law logically reflect on equal culpability it is the Wisconsin Legislature going to walk down that road. I don't know is that a good road to walk down. I have a hard time justifying sanctioning the person that does the abortion and that the person that allows abortion to go on knowing that it's illegal. There is a certain logic though to the point of view that if you consider the fetus to be human life the person who takes a life must face criminal penalties. That's correct and that's the abortionist that's taking the life of the woman is merely an accomplice to.

Are you worried about their representatives. Well first of all we have to talk about the fact that there are conflicting statutes on the books in Wisconsin there is a statute that says that that women can be penalizes another statute that essentially says that a woman cannot be paralyzed and I would expect that if the Supreme Court does something that brings us back to the point of considering these two statutes there will be court cases here in Wisconsin examining that issue but I would certainly hope that the legislature would go on record saying that that women ought to have a right to an abortion but if we do have a ban on abortion then we should not be penalize ing women who are often driving driven to seeking an abortion for reasons of health for reasons of financial circumstances this is not an easy decision for women and we should not penalize them in a criminal I said. Go ahead I was going to say there are many other crimes where we can act with compassion and we can say that you know whether it's robbery or or murder justifiable homicide kinds of situations where there still are sanctions handed down even though we understand

that the emotional circumstances are difficult. I I understand that the act of a desperate woman in and having an abortion legal or illegal and you know I I don't want to seem to be cruel and heartless but on the other hand we have to have our laws make some kind of sense to some kind of logic. I'd like to ask you both this because we unfortunately just have a moment remaining and that is the one thing aspect you agree on is that this isn't going to be fun. I mean this is going to be a difficult thing for your colleagues in the U.S. The ninety eight others to two to wrestle with isn't this sort of the worst kind of nightmare that legislatures all across the country are now going to be wrestling around with this Roe versus Wade Supreme Court really aren't going to resolve anything. Finally I suspect now I suspect that unless they were to uphold Roe which which I think is unlikely we will have to wrestle with this. It's not something that we wish to do but if the court puts us in that position we have a responsibility to make sure that women in Wisconsin have a right to a safe and legal abortion right.

The challenge is going to be to sort through the emotional rhetoric and carefully balance the rights of the unborn with the rights of the mother or representative or drawn and represented last time. Thanks very much. Thank you. 20 years ago campuses in Wisconsin were filled with student protests against the Vietnam War. Many of those protesters will leave their city offices and suburban homes this weekend and reunite in Madison. Joining me for our weekly roundtable to talk about those heady revolutionary days are from Madison are one Nowell editor of The Progressive magazine and here in Milwaukee John McAdams political science professor from market University are one why. Why does this capture our imagination looking back at this time or does it amount to really unfinished business.

It doesn't particularly capture my imagination and I think it's what does it say for you. It's an exercise in nostalgia. And we have we have a lot of things to do right now rather than wallow in memories fond Oran of the 60s. I think people ought to have their little festival or get out of town and go back to work and seriously I think it's a waste of time then. Yes largely because as I say we have things to do right now to look back on those days to the trip where there is urgent business in America unfinished business. Well good point. John you think we should be looking back at this time and and maybe learning something else from it. That what bothers me about the nostalgia craze about the people who want to look back is that they don't seem to be willing to actually engage in an honest assessment. Too much they seem to be sort of unrepentant 60s leftist at least the hardcore and you know if you look at some of the legacies they have left us a legacy of widespread drug use. Some of them are now deciding that cracking PC PR

quote genocidal. It's nice that they know that now it's 20 years too late. The sexual legacy of kids illegitimacy venereal disease. I mean I think it would be good to look back if they were willing to look back and take honestly take stock or you know ask where they went wrong. You're talking about them. You were one of them weren't you know I was never one of them like the majority of the people in that age cohort. I was never really heard of the comment about you. I think I think that John obviously wasn't one of them. I think they have nothing to repent but they fought a good fight they fought against a brutal and insensitive government. They fought against hypocrisy and hard places they fought for making this country live up to its own rhetoric and its own ideals. Unfortunately some of that stuck. And we still are benefiting from some of that today. They fought the good fight not just to get America out of the war.

They claim to be anti-war they were only against America fighting the war they weren't against North Vietnam fighting they were going to North Vietnamese victory. That's what they wanted. We're talking about people who thought the man was a great leader. We're talking about people who adored Fidel Castro. We're talking about people who thought Mao's China represented social justice. Well you know I heard about people who simply held bizarre beliefs or what have you about people who may have been wrong from time to time but who always were morally superior to the government they were protesting against Maoists are morally superior to to John Grant gentlemen as this is and yes I think they were morally superior to Richard is that yes I do. That's a bizarre judge with so so looking back at it for 20 years what's the one thing that that we've learned in that 20 year sentence. Well I think the one thing we've learned is that times change conditions change people's responses change. But unfortunately most of the problems remain unsolved. And we've got to go about dealing with.

And some say living in Madison is re-union enough. I thank you both very much. Now here's Dave with this week's commentary. I turned finally to talk about the sixties refugees from the protest year I gather in Madison the summer of 69 featured on the cover of Newsweek. Now even PBS is getting into the act with a new series called Making sense of the 60s. It seems the Sixties Generation has captured the media with all the fervor of a sit in. We occupy the airwaves the way we used to occupy ROTC buildings. And it probably doesn't hurt that 60s mania that it has been assisted rather by a lot of former protesters who are now reporters and editors. I freely admit to still having a few books by Ken kisi and Carlos Castillo on my bookshelf and I actually own albums by the Quicksilver Messenger Service and Moby Grape. But this relapse of flower child fever is about more than just the nostalgic beats of old music. I think we're wistful because the 6:00 news were the last time people of my generation at least those of us who

could afford a college deferment didn't have any responsibility. We're not because all we had to do back then was ask questions challenge the system upset the apple cart. We were good at asking questions. But as writer James Webb has pointed out we've had trouble with resolutions. Maybe that's why we're not Stelter. We long for a time when all we had to do was ask questions. Now it's the tail end of the 20th century. We best get busy and think about a few resolutions. Otherwise the legacy of the 60s will deserve only my favorite college grade and incomplete. Going to. Dave I'm surprised at you. Thank you for joining us for this edition of Wisconsin week I'm Joe Smith in Milwaukee. Have a happy Fourth of July and we'll see you next week. Tonight's production of Wisconsin week is made possible in part by a in our pipeline

company a subsidiary of the coast to corp providing reliable natural gas service to Wisconsin's homes businesses and industries for nearly 40 years.