Here & Now; 943

Presentation of here and now is made possible in part by animal dentistry and oral surgery specialists of Milwaukee Ashkashan Minneapolis, a veterinary team working with pet owners and family veterinarians providing care for oral disease and dental problems of small companion animals. Additional support for here and now is provided by the LE Phillips Family Foundation I'm sorry to say that but I have to know I have never seen it quite like this. UW lacrosse political science professor Joe Haan

laments the changing political climate in western Wisconsin. I'm Frederica Freiber tonight on here and now Adam Schrager reports from lacrosse on how the Senate recall election there is part of that climate change. Later we talk with Milwaukee Public School Superintendent Gregory Thornton about his districts proposed budget that includes massive job cuts. After that one of the country's most respected Middle East scholars gives us his take on what the death of Osama bin Laden means to the world and will hear how for better or worse high gas prices affect Wisconsin motorists and the Midwest economy. But first lacrosse county will likely hold its fourth election in eight months this July. That's when it's expected a recall election for state Senator Dan Capanki will be held. As here and now reporter Adam Schrager shows us the historically agreeable and bipartisan politics of western Wisconsin has changed. Visitors to lacrosse are no doubt drawn by a vibrant downtown. It's impressive bluffs and the oftentimes tranquil Mississippi River. We've got

people over here that basically have a lot of common sense and work for the good of the area. But lacrosse insiders will tell you that's not the only tranquility they've enjoyed. We've had an innocence about us a little bit of Lake Wollvagan in our political landscape. We've always had a history of working together for western Wisconsin. Senator Dan Capanki a Republican and representative Jennifer Schilling a Democrat may have disagreed on some issues over the last seven years but they always agreed first on how to help their community. By the way this university is a good example of that. UW lacrosse political science professor Joe Hyme says all you have to do is look around his campus to see the growth that Capanki and Schilling have worked toward together at the state capital in Madison. They've always worked together so well and now it's you know it's different. Different says the man who's followed western Wisconsin politics since Warren Knowles was governor and not different

in a good way. I don't have to say no. I'm sorry to say that but I have to know I've never seen it quite like this. The events at the capital this spring over governor Scott Walker's budget repair measure have split this community. I think it's more disappointment. Streamy Lomarral concerned about the future. It's led to Capanki's impending recall and Schilling subsequent challenge. We don't recognize what is happening and we feel that that Senator Capanki has lost his way that he's not the same independent who stood up to his own party in the past. If you break away this one vote nothing's changed but you bring one vote into the picture and now you have two sides and two very active sides voter registration records show the area is about a third Republican a third Democratic and a third independent moderates from both parties have always done well here often leaving the political bickering to

places like Milwaukee and Madison for practical purposes as much as anything. In order for us to do well in Madison we in pardon me buck the Madison Milwaukee tied shall we say the power that those two cities have you have to have unanimity over here but there remains no unanimity here over the impact of the removal of some collective bargaining rights for public workers even a couple of months after the vote at the capital. It's not as bad as maybe the big bad media has played it up to be over here. 50 years of workers rights stripped away in a matter of minutes and I looked at my husband and I said this may be our time. It's campaign time yet again in La Crosse with both candidates already operating fully active headquarters before the summer election because you're making a day. I had 500 Saturday our fiscal house needs to be put in order if we're going to run this state the way it should be run. We didn't vote for this this is not what we thought was going to be the tone of the

administration. The tone of the political discourse in western Wisconsin these days is different. I hope it's temporary but the answer clearly is yes there has been a change and it's leading everyone involved to wonder what happens when the July recall election is over can the tranquility return. We will be losing our political innocence as we go forward with these recalls or have the politics of Madison and Milwaukee taken over the region. It has permeated west. The government accountability board is currently reviewing the signatures turned in for all of the possible recall elections. It hopes to have a decision by the first week in June on whether those senators will be in a recall election. With all the recalls and special elections it seems that Wisconsin is in a 24 seven voting mode. Today the GAB announced that all counties accept Walker Shaw are expected to finish their Supreme Court ballot recount by the

end of the day Monday and this week's special elections filled holes left behind when three Republicans left the assembly for jobs in the Walker administration. Democrats Steve Doyle beat his Republican opponent in the 94th assembly district a seat held by Republican Mike HIP since 1994. Republicans do a struggle and Dave Craig cruise to easy victories in the 60th and 83rd districts. A bill that is now on its way to the assembly will either help eliminate voter fraud in our state or diminish voter participation depending on your point of view. The so-called photo ID bill does just that requires people to show a personal photo ID at the polls in order to vote. Supporters say the step is necessary to ensure the integrity of all ballots cast. Opponents say huge sectors of the population could be left out of the voting process. People like college students whose university IDs do not include home addresses which the bill mandates. The bill is expected to pass in the assembly as soon as next week. Well the battles in the voting booth are of

course fueled by the budget battles at the state capital. The proposed biennial budget among other things includes an 8.7 percent reduction in general school aid. One of the district's hardest hit by cuts of these sort is the state's largest school district Milwaukee and this week the district's own budget proposal reduces staffing by nearly 1,000 full-time positions. Superintendent Milwaukee Public Schools Dr. Gregory Thornton joins us now by telephone and Superintendent thanks very much for doing so. Good afternoon. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak on this very challenging topic that we face with Milwaukee children. Challenging indeed you are cutting more than 80 million dollars from the MPS budget for next year I understand and losing another 80 million dollars in federal stimulus funds. What are the most tangible cuts that people, children and families will see in Milwaukee Public Schools? The biggest challenge we will have is around human resources. I total budget is

182 million dollars left and it was this time last year with approximately a thousand positions been being eliminated. The impact you feel will be in classrooms every day with respect to increased class size and respect to support the teachers. We're in a we're in a human capital business and our transformational work comes with our teachers and supporting young people in classrooms. Programmatic changes you will see. Presley now there's a reduction in certainly school nurses reduction and our pre-K-5 programs we lost 32 classrooms but just generally overall $555 less per student which is I think probably the biggest reduction probably in the issue of Milwaukee Public Schools. Now just to take it back to the full-time equivalent position number you will be able to make up some of that with retirements and vacant positions I understand. Certainly and anticipation of trying to be really great fiscal stewards we have certainly slowed up our

hiring but at the end of the day we're still facing a a potential teacher layoff or a personnel layoff not just teachers in the neighborhood right around 400 individuals. Unfortunately and fortunately we've had some retirements. The unfortunate thing is that we lose a lot of great talent in our teacher ranks but certainly creates an opportunity certainly to keep people employed and certainly that has worked for us but at the end of the day there will not be a thousand layoffs excuse me it will not be a thousand layoffs nor will it be a thousand retirements so at the end of the day there will be folks unfortunately we're going to be asking to not be with us next year. People always want to know about custody administration will there be cuts in that area? It cuts in every single area the only place that we have really attempted to hold the line is around safety and there was a small cut there but the administration took a very healthy cut as well as

administrations at school level and unfortunately when you begin to peel into this the things that I see going away are the things that I think are vital to young people. The art, the music, the fiscal education right now I would suggest you've we're unable to love 70% of our schools the way the youngsters don't get those opportunities and those are things to be very candid many kids come to school for you know kids just don't wake up in the mornings I can't wait to get the English sometimes they wake up the mornings I can't wait to get my children music class and we use those as hopefully young people in to allow them to hopefully then you have a really quality education those the big changes that we have. Now the the legislature as you well know is moving on eliminating the caps on school choice in Milwaukee what will that mean for the public schools in your city? All right it can certainly be devastating just take a look 20 years back that program began with 300 children now the program has over 20,000 children it certainly has an impact quality of life day-to-day as well as the only issue around taxes that you know that we certainly

must levy right now 51 million dollars is levy to support that program if that program continues to grow at their exponential level we potentially to be very approaching in the next 36 months as much as 80 million dollars 30 million dollars in additional tax credits and at the same time unfortunately kids don't leave the public school district you know in an equal distribution it begins like reports that with respect to school closings and then put that aside we got to begin to have the conversation around the quality of education for young people I'm convinced that the Milwaukee Public Schools and I think it's been certainly supported and most recent assessments that we are so certainly provided a better quality of education than that being provided on the aggregate with the voucher so it's a challenge for the city it's certainly a challenge for our children and at the you know I often look at the mobility rate and so we're going to think in terms of how are we going to begin to work together

to meet the I think the pressing needs of the future of the city now do you were you able to get enough concessions out of the teachers union to help you in a meaningful way in this budget well I'd be very candid I actually sold the teachers contract on September 25 and had no idea as to what the future would hold with respect to the things that potentially might be tools that have been reference that might be given to me by the legislature right now in that confession we were we saved someone in the neighbors of the three to four million dollars even with that I had a 13.4 million dollar shortfall our teachers are under contract for the next two years certainly we've had conversations and around what we could do for additional savings that we could do that we could actually put on the table and mitigate some of these challenges and I've been relatively unsuccessful in doing that so no I mean we do not have the tools that often are reference in the language and in the rhetoric around

you know that we could actually make this take glory we cannot make a hundred and eighty two million dollars go away with future concessions it's much bigger than that's a structural problem that we're going to have to fix as a state all right a superintendent Thornton thanks very much for your time today well thank you and thank you for your interest and Milwaukee Public Schools because at the end of the day they talk about the state being open for business I would like to say open for education I believe we open the state's first predication the business and economic development of the state will certainly certainly hopefully your list is heard in that name and you support a not just Milwaukee Public Schools for all the schools in the state of Wisconsin we're in a very very trouble time thank you sir thank you ma'am bye bye we leave state budget matters for the time being in order to look at world events the U.S. military killing of Osama bin Laden dominated the news this week bin Laden's death has re-awakened fears of terrorism for some and brought needed 9-11 closure for others during those horrible weeks post 9-11

we relied on the analysis of one of the nation's leading Middle East scholars we invited him back at the close of this benchmark week Jeremy Surrey is a professor of history at the UW Madison and thanks very much for being here it's great to be here thank you why does the death of Osama bin Laden hold such importance for us well two things in particular one it marks the end of a period that began right after September 11th when we began to hunt him and began to try to decapitate the organization that he had put together that had brought such damage to our society this marks the long success of that second it hopefully sends a message to many people around the world that the United States is capable of following through on a long-term operation and eliminating at least an individual who has brought great threat to us in another sense do you feel as though it holds too much importance? it could it depends how people look at it if you believe this is the end of the terrorist threat you're associating too much with this if you believe he was in control of everything you're associating too much with this

but he had enormous symbolic value for those who were organizing mobilizing and raising money against the United States now you teach an online course from here two military personnel in Afghanistan and elsewhere after this news broke what was their reaction? well many of the students who i'm in contact with felt a sense of relief they were certainly happy about it they were looking forward to this moment but the reaction about what comes next has been quite mixed some see this as a sign that we're doing a better job in the region some quite frankly see this as a sign that it's time to leave the region what does it mean for the Middle East for terrorism and for American foreign policy? well i think it means we have entered a new environment now which is to say that we don't have a clear figure who is serving as an inspirational center for a lot of our enemies and a lot of those who are opposed to us but it does mean we face a complex fractured environment in which there are many groups with different interests competing with us but also appealing to us at the same time the

protests throughout the Middle East are quite interesting because these groups want the U.S. to support them but they're not necessarily pro-American and so i think we need now or two things we need an American government policy that is very much calibrated to the specificities of different places we should not group all these countries together and second we need to think about the full range of our capabilities the military is only one tool we should not take the death of bin Laden as a sign that the military can solve all our problems because it can't going more specific even to the to the death of bin Laden do you think that Pakistan didn't know he was there? no i think there were many elements within the Pakistani government that did in particular in the intelligence services i think there are a number of groups within the Pakistani government that see an interest in keeping this terrorist threat alive and working with the Taliban in addition to al-Qaeda but i don't think everyone in Pakistan knew it is believable to me that the president president Zadari did not know that he was there whereas other elements of his government probably did

now just today a response from al-Qaeda bowing retaliation how worried should we be about that? i think we should expect some relatively small incidents i don't think they had a big incident to pull off the shelf in large part because they didn't expect bin Laden to be killed in the way he was but we should expect them to try to show that they're still there to try to hit us in some way and we should be on the alert for that but we were already on the alert for that so my takeaway is that there's nothing different we should be doing in terms of protecting ourselves right now now learning the details of this kind of swift and sure and and stealthy military operation to capture and ultimately kill bin Laden what does this tell us about our military and our intelligence agencies? well it tells us that they actually have an enormous amount of capability marrying a technology together with force on the ground this involved communications this involved good detective work and it involved forces on the ground doing the kinds of things we see in Hollywood all the time it means they can do that it doesn't mean they can do it in all places at all times and i think the takeaway should be

that we have enormous power and capability there but we have to use it the right way this was a well-managed operation from august of two thousand ten until uh... last week this week uh... i think what we'd have to do is look at how we apply this power in the future don't assume it's a blunt instrument that can be applied everywhere now going again more specific to the actual um... capture and and death of bin Laden uh... afterwards you started seeing the the network's kind of showing the pieces of the helicopter i kept thinking boy that seems like a really bad security idea to show the world how we operate well i think they were careful uh... the u.s. government and what it released but uh... i'm not sure i think the the balance that the president is playing here is he wants to be able to show some evidence of what happened you have to convince people who are not convinced that this operation really came off at the same time as you said for a record you don't want to reveal secrets so there's a difficult balance there the pictures i saw didn't reveal much more than you could find on the web but i didn't look at them with you know with the detail

that may be an expert would so what what happens now well i think two things happen now i think that the white house and state department and the other american uh... agencies have to look at this and try to figure out what the state of al-Qaeda in the terrorist threat is now it's time for a real serious analysis how much of a threat is this where is the threat and are we applying our resources in the right place this is a good time for serious analysis second thing i think we need to start thinking about what our interest are in that region what do we really care about should this be a moment when we can say all right now we should pull out of afghanistan a little bit or should we today say this is a moment we want to redouble our efforts we have to ask some hard questions about the threat and about what we care about hopefully the answers to those kinds of questions will be forthcoming i hope so too Jeremy sir thanks very much thank you now back to was constant from jamesville to green bay and beyond triple a says gas prices hit an all-time record high in cities across the badger state this week a week when four dollar plus prices for a gallon of gasoline became

the norm in fact was constant was among the top four most expensive states for gas this first week in may we want to pump an expert for some information now on what all this means for Wisconsin consumers and for our economy Deborah Mitchell is a professor of marketing at the UW-Madison School of Business and thanks very much for being here thank you it's great to be here well what is this so-called breakpoint for consumers when it comes to gas prices you know gas prices it's a very funny product category we sometimes don't even notice the prices are going up on other goods or we kind of pay attention not that much with gasoline most americans most Wisconsinites definitely watching and the way we react is not always the same we can kind of deal with it for a while but when we get to certain kinds of price points like four dollars we really snap to attention do you know why that is it's a very interesting psychological phenomenon basically we don't spend a lot of cognitive effort pricing or paying attention to prices most of the time we look at the first

number or the first two numbers and then we kind of just it's almost like the others drop away so when it's in the threes we say what's three something but when that first number the primary number changes when it goes up then suddenly it's sort of a big deal so what happens to our behavior at that point other than getting kind of angry well right first of all we notice it much more and psychologically in our brain it's like a red flag is thrown prices are going up too much a big jump even if it's only from $399 to $4 that's one penny but it feels like a lot more per gallon there's also a special number tied to how much we're spending on the tank the tank of gasoline so for a lot of people it could be $50 you know as long as it's under 50 it's okay but if it goes above 50 suddenly oh my goodness it's really hitting my wallet now you describe this as hypervigilance about rising gas prices but we don't do that with other necessities not necessarily you know we're all busy we we pick and choose not realizing it but there are certain categories that we tend to look at the price of milk

could be another for some folks I'm growing up my mother we always know exactly to the penny what the price of milk was because for her it was milk for most of us it's gasoline what does it make us do this hypervigilance what we scan the environment as we're driving to work we're looking up at the sign to see what the price of gasoline is even if we're not going to fill up that day it can cause us to do things that economists would say are irrational like driving cross town to a gasoline station when we are going to fill up to save five cents a gallon when if you think about it you're going to save a dollar and you may spend more than that in total just driving there does it make us do things that might put a damper on the economy like not drive as much very much so in fact I work with people who are saying things like they're going to move downtown because that way they won't have to drive to get to work they can walk or ride a bike even just trips you know I've seen many people say I'm not going to make as many trips to do errands I'm going to get all my errands into one trip or even just not go shopping you know scale back which can have a trickle down effect on a lot of things now we know that the last time a gas

price has went up perhaps not this high but just about this high everyone started buying hybrid vehicles and doing things like that and then went back down and then we started buying as you've used again right I mean what is what is this about that we forget about it when it's when it's done we we don't like change and we don't like to think that things have changed fundamentally so when prices came back down we kind of all told ourselves as Americans thank goodness that is over it's never going to happen again you know we we don't kind of see that there's volatility in this market and that it is going to go up again and in fact it may be going up and down a lot more now many experts say that the volatility in the gasoline market and the oil market is here to stay that we were spoiled for a long time it was relatively constant you know maybe slowly going up but not the big jumps one thing that I have heard recently is that people expected to go way up into the five six dollar mark should we be looking forward to that we should definitely entertain a thought that that could happen it could easily happen and so the idea that okay we had a bad time

thank goodness it's back to normal and we don't have to worry anymore is really false we have to be ready to accept the risk of much higher gasoline prices now you talk about something called a reference price and how that translates politically what is that the reference price has been studied a great deal by psychologists and what it is is our belief and what is a fair price it can change so what a fair price for a gallon of gasoline would be viewed as can change over time but basically every human all of us we have these beliefs about what are fair prices and anytime that the price goes above like what is being charged is higher than that reference price we have a strong reaction particularly in this country because it's shaped by cultural values and so Americans we believe a lot in justice and if we think that things are unfair if we're being charged an unfair price we don't like that we also believe a lot in cars and highway travels yes but is there an easy target to blame for high gas prices and do people look for that target very much so i mean another psychological phenomenon is sort of when we feel there

is unfairness we look for attributions we want to figure out why and then blame someone as Americans we feel it's our god-given right to drive as much and wherever we want to and we also think it's our god-given right to not pay a lot for gas and so the attribution ends up being often to whoever is in power politically all right Deborah Mitchell thank you very much you're welcome 25 years ago during our last major energy crisis a small county in western Wisconsin decided to do something about it in 1986 barren county built a waste to energy plant that's the only one of its kind in the state it burns raw garbage and sells the resulting steam to a nearby cheese plant a recent multi-million dollar upgrade now allows the facility to capture even more energy and offer it to residents throughout the area its plant manager says alternatives like landfills and coal plants are impossible and there are better ways to make electricity and with a waste energy facility you take care of both issues you can it can be done in a very environmentally friendly way to both handle

two problems Adam Schrager's story about the unique energy program in barren county will air on the May 19th edition of our sister program in Wisconsin and next week on here and now more budget coverage our state budget proposals causing public workers and school teachers to retire in droves i'll have that report that's all for tonight i'm Frederica Fryberg have a great weekend presentation of here and now is made possible in part by animal dentistry and oral surgery specialists of Milwaukee Ashkashin Minneapolis a veterinary team working with pet owners and family veterinarians providing care for oral disease and dental problems of small companion animals additional support for here and now is provided by the le phillips family foundation