Wisconsin Roots Too; 4; Shivers

The horrors of slavery created in most black people an obsession with the skin. Some attempts proved fatal, yet others like that of the Shivers' family meant a new life free from immediate oppression and bondage. [Host] If you're black and you want to purchase a home in Madison it's not too difficult today but 20 years ago that wasn't the case. Hazel Shivers, Taliaferro, and brother Stanley tell us why. Hazel, would you tell us how your family came to- to come to Wisconsin? [Hazel]: Well my grandfather, his brother Thomas, and his sister in- a few years later came to, uh Cairo, Illinois escaped from Tennessee, uh, from the town of Alamo and Crockett County, Tennessee. They escaped to Cairo and they were really not quite teenagers. And, uh the two boys, Thomas and Ashley, worked in a sawmill for two years and then made their way on foot

up into a Vernon County which they had heard about. There were other blacks already living there and homesteading. [Host] Can you tell me about the, uh, farming community in Vernon County. Were there good relations between the white farmers and the black farmers? [Hazel] Very good relations, extremely good relations. Uh, there were blacks, there were Norwegians, a lot of Norwegians there and, uh, a lot has been done by the sociology department. Um, the, uh, Norwegians settled once there, and lot of Bohemian people. Now those were the three main people that lived in this particular area and I- I don't know anything about, uh, the western part of Vernon County this is just around the town of Forest and, uh, they all worshipped the same church. They all went to school together.

They grew up and they intermarried, and as a matter of fact, people up there so they all bleached out. You can't find them anymore. [chuckles] So, uh, uh, it was a- a very lovely community they have their Saturday night dances and I have been to some of them and they were quite something to see. Do you think that your mother suffered any alienation from her family because she married a black man? [Hazel] Somewhat yes, uh-huh. Uh, her oldest brother, who she idolized. Uh, said that he hoped he never saw her alive again. But when my daughter was about 3 or 4 years old, he made the trip to Madison from the state of Washington to see her and they had a lovely reunion. He stayed with

us for- for about two weeks and I was very happy that that happened after our low share since... [Host] That's right, that's right. Now were there any special problems for people, uh, interracial couples at this time. [Hazel]: Mhm, yes there were in Madison. There was a bill i-in the legislature, uh, which would forbid interracial marriages so my parents were very apprehensive so they didn't take a chance. They went down to Illinois and got married. [Host]: I was just going to add something. You- you're black but you don't look black. Uh, you've got, uh, your parents ha-have- had that blood. Did you still encounter problems? [Stanley]: We still encountered problems because- [Hazel]: Lots of 'em. [Stanley]: uh, they, we were here- My folks were here so long that, uh, they knew the background and, uh, the city records that- that were colored although, um, brothers and sisters didn't, uh, look colored. The brothers had the same

problem I did in trying to find jobs or housing which is very critical to a young married people and, uh, uh, I had to, uh, rent a house when I was working for the bus company a-and I had to rent the house and my wife didn't see the house because she's black- I tol- after I had rented and paid two month's rent and we had a credit struggle to keep the home out in the Far East Side. Uh, which was mostly working people from Oscars and the- the Kip and several plants, uh, on the East Side. They started the, uh, petition and everybody in the neighborhood signed the petition except, uh, a little German couple that next-that was next door to our home- our home that we rented and they refused to sign so they couldn't get us out very well so the-the man in charge of the

house in that area asked us to come in and see see us and he, i-incidentally he's happen to be, uh, chairman of the board of real estate dealers. His name was Lauftsgarten and he told us we had- would have to move out within 30 days or because the neighborhood couldn't ha- couldn't, uh, want us in the area. [Host]: But you didn't move. [Stanley]: We didn't move and we had a conference with him and, uh, then, uh, the owner of the homes, uh, had stopped by and, uh, talked to us and said- told the man in charge of his property that, uh, we were a reasonable-looking couple and- and a nice family so he told us we could stay if we wanted to. [Host]: Stanley, could you tell us a little bit about, uh, your experiences with the bus company here in Madison and trying to get a job? [Stanley]: Yes, uh,

I had applied for jobs all over Madison for a number- A long time and, uh, I couldn't get the job and, uh, my wife was wondering why and, uh, I had put, uh, they put race and I put black, or colored at that time, ?we were colored?. Anyway, uh, so I put an application at the Madison bus company. Uh, 19- 41 I believe it was, 1940, '41, anyway, uh, they- I was 1 of the 12 dra-drivers selected out of about a hundred applications. And, uh, after I was there about a week they found out, uh, in my, uh, background that I was black and, uh, black origin anyway. And anyway they called a special meeting. The union called a special meeting to, uh, uh,

find- to discuss my, uh, problem and they didn't want any any, uh, black people in the- driving a bus. [Host]: This was a private company, then? This was a private company owned by, uh, Douglas, uh- [Hazel]: Dudley. [Stanley]: DudleyMontgomery and in-incorporated of course with other people involved in it. But they decided that, uh, they talk to the- then they called in the- the president of the company and he told them that, uh, if I- the first accident I had, the first excuse, they would let me go. And of course out of the 12 bus drivers I was only one who didn't have an accident in the, uh, first, uh, two weeks of, uh- that we broke in and, uh, incidentally [chuckle] I drove a bus for five years without an accident and that's the marvel [chuckle] in Madison here. Uh, when I w-started working for the university then I quit the job. [Host]: Thank you very much.