The Wisconsin Magazine; Target: The State legislature; 302

"[Female Announcer] The following program is brought to you in part, by a grant from the friends of Channel 21 incorporated. [Pause] [Sen. Clifford Krueger] Senator, the 24th is indicated in some of the other Democratic masterminds around here about the highway program. They're threatening us with that amendment. Bring it in! Make the motion! If you don't I will! I know, I won't get enough support. Now let's cut out this gobbledygook, about the highway program. [Pause] [Crowd: Murmurs of agreement] [Gavel] [Sen. Clifford] Alright. "[Male Voice] Senator from the 12th has the floor." [Gavel] "[Senator from 12th] Without objection, the clerk will call the roll.' "[Clerk] Senator ?Antelman? Bablitch. [Background: Here]?Barer?. Burger. [Background: Here] Bedwell. [Background: Here] Brown. [Background: Here] Chillsen. Collen. Flynn. Frank. ?Goikie?. Harnesh. Johnston. [Background: Here] Kleczka. Kruel. Krueger. ?LeSe? "[John Powell] Hello I'm John Powell. Tonight on Target: The state legislature, Senate Republicans set off

fireworks when they propose a new way to pay for highways. The governor field some tough questions. Citizens Utility Board supporters live to fight another day and a legislative committee is wondering whether or not pressurized air, at gas stations, should be free. A light weight issue if we've ever heard one. It started out as a tranquil morning in the Senate but then the subject turned once again to highways and Republicans challenge Democrats to a verbal game of chicken. The result was a head on collision. And here's a report." [Pause] "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] Let me tell you. We're going to ride back into the majority control on the roads in this state, if you persist and you're going to ride off- out of office on those bumpy roads. This coming election." "[Male Newscaster] From 9:00 to 11:00 today the debate was routine. Then Senate amendment 40 was introduced by the Republican caucus. The bill would transfer 40 percent of some automobile related sales tax revenues into the segregated highway fund to pay for the governor's 82 million dollar highway package. It was the spark that

ignited a full round of emotional partisan exchanges. "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] The purpose of this amendment is to take a percentage [pause] of the uh, Sales tax generated by the sales of automobile and automotive supplies and put in the highway fund because of the depressed condition of our highways, because of the fact that our "do nothing" Governor Patrick Lucey, has let our highways go down the drain. And when it got so bad, he took off for a Mexico, where he was virtually recalled." [Pause] "[Sen. James Moody] Heavy trucks, which are common carriers, Senator from the 16th, are exempt from sales tax. Under Section 7 7.54 parin B of the statutes. We would take heavy trucks, heavy trucks, to give them a completely free ride. That has nothing to do with out of staters. Wisconsin truckers, that are common carriers, will get a free ride on those bumpy roads that Senator Lorge is so worried about.

I'm surprised at this, that- that gross flaw in this amendment has not been, on this proposal has not been addressed. "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] But if we are going to legislate here with the idea of what Jack Ammonius wants or what the uh, the east wing wants, then we might as well abolish this house and have a one house legislature. I think we ought to follow the rules and proceed as senators, and send our bill over to that other house and then let them proceed as representatives." "[Sen. Gerald Kleczka] If in fact we adopt this amendment today or fail to reject it. We will put this state into an immediate deficit, for the next biennium of some 30 million dollars. [Gavel] And what I do, Senator uh, Mr. President-" "[Mr. President] You must now consent-" "[Kleczka] You now must now consent for 2 minutes." "[Mr.President] Senator has ?said? to proceed for another 2 minutes as ?your? objections ?inaudible?" "[Kleczka] and I'm giving the minority members a benefit of doubt by using up the entire ending balance of 49 million dollars for your goofy Amendment, and showing a

projected deficit of only 30 million dollars. So I save your political skin back home." [Pause] "[Sen. Walter Chilsen] I would ask uh, any of you are you, have you gone up and asked to be uh, listed as a co-author of my amendment. It does provide the permit solution that would tax out of staters as well as the Wisconsin residents. I have not heard any of you ask unanimous consent to be listed as a uh, co-author. Yesterday I said I was not trying to be divisive when I said I hope we can get together and uh, join in a permanent solution. Today, I don't care if I'm divisive or not." "[Sen. Carl Thompson] He knows and I know that not one, single dime of the tax that would be raised under this proposal is going to s'come from out-of-state truckers and not one single dime is going to come from out-of-state motorists when they come from Wisconsin. It's sticking it to the Wisconsin citizen. That's what we outta call this mid is, this this a- amendment, stick it to the Wisconsin citizen."

"[Sen. Daniel Theno] So where are we sitting? We're sitting here playing little games and I tell you it's getting damn frustrating for the senator of the 25th and a couple of- the rest of us, who would like to sit down with the majority party, who would like to have a permanent solution. Who would like to get our fair share of the motor fuel user taxes that the Senator of the 16th talks about. But what have you offered? You certainly haven't offered leadership. When you get going in that little caucus there and King caucus takes over which I assume it's going to do. I hope that you live up to your responsibilities that you're sent down here for in the first place." "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] Will the senator yield to a question." [Gavel] "[Mr. President and Clerk talking over each other] Senator, Senator-" "[Senator] Senator yields." "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] would you yield to a question." "[Kleczka] Senator yields." "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] Senator, is it true that you were at a meeting of Democrats where you decided that you're going to have the governor on a limb that you're going to force him to have a deficit or force him to sign a sales tax bill, is that true or not true?" "[Sen. Kleczka] That is entirely false and I think you just dreamt that up Senator. [Pause] [Background Person: Chuckles] [Kleczka] In fact, even in our discussions with the governor on a transportation bill, we said we will hold your hand if you're that

scared during the press conference announcing ?same?. But he still failed to take the lead. No, we're not setting him up, we're trying to be responsible. Please join us." "[Male Voice] Mr. President, would the Senator of the 14th yield-" "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] I will not yield." "[Background Senator] I will not yield" "[Male Voice] Good idea." "[Sen. Gerald Lorge] I'll yield to your father in law, the former highway commissioner of Outagamie County, that has asked for this bill this uh, amendment." [Background chuckling] And I have a list of requests from your father in law right here. The former highway commissioner who just a year ago had a hearing in the ?Shy Ocken? American Legion clubhouse. With the present highway commissioner there, very concerned over the fact that the county may have to put our state trunk system, Highway 76 and 10 on a county road project in order to get the roads fixed. And your father-in-law chaired that meeting. Now if you have anymore questions about highways, call him." [Background laughter] "[Sen. W.M Bablitch] It needs the push of the governor. And if the governor isn't

going to push it and if he's not going to give us the kind of impetus that we need we- that we that we know we need [pause] to sell the program, then why should anybody in this house go through that kind of political cut? And that's what the political facts of life are. Let's put it on the table and let's talk about it. Sincerely I don't think there's any use Republicans beating up Democrats in this house or Democrats beating up Republicans, when we all know what the facts are." [Pause] "[Male] I surmise that of many of you in the majority party are unwilling to stick your necks out. [Pause] Feeling that if you do, the governor will chop it off. In effect many of you have said to me privately that you are, in essence, afraid of the oratorical ability of Lee Sherman Dreyfus. I submit to you that if a permanent solution was added to this budget,

Lee Sherman Dreyfus would sign it. That being the case, how in the heck can you come back and say that the governor is going to come in your district in 1980 and crucify you. "[Male Voice] Senator-" "[Sen. Clifford Krueger speaks over other person] Senator on the 24th has indicated and some of the other Dem-Democratic masterminds around here about the highway program. They're threatening us with that amendment. Bring it in make the motion if you don't I will I know I won't get enough support. Now let's cut out this gobbledygook about the highway program." [Background crowd: clamoring in agreement]. "[Krueger] Alright." "[Male Voice] Senator from the 12th has the floor." "[Male Newscaster] Everyone agreed with Senator Krueger at the time, but when the vote was counted, it was party line all the way and the motion was tabled 21 to 11. Both party caucuses spent part of the afternoon deciding which of remaining amendments were important enough to debate. The Democrats found 21 to deal with on the floor. Republicans weren't as quick to limit their debate time

but vowed solidarity in rejecting the budget entirely. If Democrats tried to throttle Republican debate of their budget issues. The remainder of the afternoon was a routine handling of a host of amendments designed to allow the Senate to beat its Friday deadline of getting the budget out of its chamber. Tomorrow will no doubt be a day for more caucus activity than debate. Not surprisingly, highways and transportation were on everybody's mind at the governor's press conference today. Eileen Berger has more. "[Eileen Berger] In this morning's news conference, Governor Dreyfus fielded questions about a special governor's airplane, the state's compliance with federal wage guidelines, and the proposed tax on gasoline. But once again the major theme was the budget and the twin refrains were highway spending and transportation funding. Governor Dreyfus was asked whether the critical issues for 1980 were the major roads he identified as needing help." "[Gov. Lee S. Dreyfus] Seeing that the balance program which we put it in the first place, is the critical issue for roads. I am saying the money was there. And I'm saying that if those

main arteries that are obviously most visible and most used are left again, undone, they will become a critical campaign issue. I think local preservation and maintenance of the 272 miles of state highway is. We didn't uh, put in a priority on that, our bill had uh, proposal had both uh, Mr. Palmer. And I didn't identify one as being more than the other, it was intended to be a balance. Joint finance then in fact took more out of the preservation and dropped two hundred seventy two state highway uh, preservation funds from it. Uh, now in effect uh, if some of that comes back or into a local roads beyond that which is where a lot of that goes and you leave sitting out there on those main arteries there any question my mind. That's something people understand at the local level. I moved to Stevens point in 1967 and they had all of the right away and the overpasses and everything to take care of Highway 51. That was in '67 and now we still aren't talking about starting it.

And I would say now as the Democrats head to caucus to rewrite that budget I tell you now every indication on my cursory examination is you are forcing this government toward, and the people of this state, toward a tax increase or a dismantling of major programs down the line. The assumption is that people will not hold you accountable for having done that. But if you push us to a point where either we are faced with major dismantling or a tax increase to support this government. I think neither of those choices are acceptable to the people of this state and I will carry that message into every county in this state. Personally." "[Eileen Berger] Govenor Dreyfus has been wooing former Markette basketball coach, Al McGuire into running in the next senatorial race, the governor was asked to comment." "[Governor Dreyfus] I don't uh, have uh, a number one choice, as you know I'd like to see a good roaring primary. Uh, but let me say this after having spent lunch with him, if he decides, and this is- this is a highly talented man, if

he decides that he ought to put his talents into this aspect of his country and life, [chuckles] I tell you he's going to be a bear. And particularly under the boards of Milwaukee, uh, I think I can help him uh out state in the back court uh, and the combination of the two.. Uh, uh, in my opinion, if that man decides to run, he will be the next United States senator in this state." "[Anchor John Powell] And at that news conference today, I had a question about the governor's Republican support or lack of it. In his budget, the governor asked for a 12 million dollar program to equalize property tax assessment statewide. And he called for the elimination of five executive secretaries of regulation and licensing boards. Dreyfus called these, good Republican positions. But most Senate Republicans voted against them and they also voted for the Bablitch compromise highway plan which the governor doesn't like. So, I question Dreyfus about the lack of party support on these issues. "[Gov. Dreyfus] But I assume in time they will come to see the wisdom of it. And uh, uh,

As they beat their breast and say ?mayocopa? Why ah, I'm a forgiving person they know that. "[Anchor John Paul] I talk with Senator Roger Murphy the assistant minority leader and asked him if all good Republicans should stand behind the governor on these questions. "[Senator Roger Murphy] Well, I think the Republicans have been backing him in most programs. The only one we seem to have a big problem on yesterday, was the elimination of the secretaries of the various um, examining boards and many of us felt that um, although proposal may have some merit, it was not going to cut out bureaucracy. And we felt it is just going to lead to more centralized government. That was the big issue upon on, on the- those particular amendment. I think as far as the road is concerned, highway bill is concerned, I think most of the Republicans are still very strong for the 82 uh, million dollar increase that the governor wants. It's just how are we going to pay for it. There's some that have different opinion as to going to the long range payment such as taking the money by increasing

sales taxes. Well many of us feel that we should take it out of the present the sales tax for automobiles in order to pay for it. "[John Paul] Senator Murphy also said the governor recognizes the right of Republicans to disagree with the executive branch. Richard Wexler was in the Assembly today watching the great debate that wasn't, here's more." "[Richard Wexler] It didn't even get this far. The sponsor of a bill to create a Citizens Utility Board moved to postpone action on the bill before the assembly could vote on it before they could even debate it. The Citizens Utility Board or CUB as it's called would represent residential and farm customers at public hearings before the Public Service Commission. It's the PSC which decides how high your next utility bill will be. If it passes won't be a governmental agency. Citizens will participate in the organization on a voluntary basis by paying three dollars each to hire experts. These experts will present the consumer's case before the

PSC. Bill supporters say this will give consumers a fighting chance versus the experts hired by utility companies. It's not easy to start an organization like CUB from scratch. The CUB bill would give the group an assist by requiring that information about it be enclosed in utility company envelopes, along with utility bills. It is this provision which has generated the most opposition. From people who say it's unfair to force utilities to, in effect, aid and abet the competition. The bill's opponents were ready and waiting today with an amendment which would have taken that provision out of the bill. The bill's assembly sponsor majority leader James Wiener wasn't sure he had the votes to defeat that provision and keep the bill intact. That's one of the reasons why he moved to postpone action. "[James Weiner] Number one, I had a couple of amendments in drafting and because of the enormous demands on the drafting made by the Senate, because the budget is up this week, I was not able to get those amendments perfected. So uh, and they were kind of contingency plan amendments and I wanted to have in hand and I don't have them.

Secondly, one of my major supporters - and it's going to be a very close vote - uh, representative Thomas Murray of Superior uh, has uh, is out with illness and I had expected him to be here and uh, I'm informed that he's not able to be here this week. And uh, I- I don't think one goes into a tight vote with one of- one of one's strongest supporters missing. "[Richard Wexler] So, even if the amendments had been had been here because Representative Murray wasn't, you still would have moved to postpone?" "[James Weiner] Well, perhaps I would have started in on the bill and would have gone around and counted noses but I- I- I probably would have delayed at some point uh, because uh, there is an amendment in as you know to gut the bill - to literally make the bill into a hollow shell. And uh, at that vote will be very close and I would have needed Murray for that one and that was Amendment 3. That's introduced." "[Richard Wexler] Amendment 3, then means if it had been passed that the um, utility board would not be allowed to enclose its notices in with utility bills in utility company envelopes if that amendment passed that would have been the result, correct?" "[James Weiner] That's correct and that would make the bill essentially useless." "[Richard Wexler] Okay. What about the amendments

that uh, you wanted have brought up today, what would they have done?" Well I had to prepare for the contingency that is that that amendment 3 might pass though, I don't believe it would. Uh, I believe it can be beaten. I beat it 4 times last session and I'll beat it again this time. But I think one has to prepare contingency plans and so I had a number of alternatives in drafting. But I uh, I'm not prepared to talk about those alternatives because I'm going to beat Amendment 3 and I'm not going to need 'em." "[Richard Wexler] Well, just in case would they do things like require utilities to advertise the existence of CUB?" "[James Weiner] They would develop some other options to serve the same purpose uh, as the bill now does but I- I'm not prepared to go into any detail until I have them in hand." "[Richard Wexler] When are we likely to see debate on the Citizens Utility Board Bill?" "[James Weiner] I think there's a good potential that we may see some debate on a Tuesday or Wednesday of next week." "[Richard Wexler] Can you get it in? If you debate it then you're going to get- be lost in the shuffle the state budget is supposed to come up on to the assemblyman." "[James Weiner] It's very early in the session. It's only the end of May. We have a lot of time. We have a long way to go. It's conceivable that uh, you know, that we if we wanted to we could debate CUB in October, and give people a

chance to talk about it and think about a petition over the summer. I'm in no great rush it's a very important item for me I've put in three years of my life on it. And I'm not about to uh, simply uh, rush in when I'm not confident of the results. "[Richard Wexler] So although you state, Tuesday and Wednesday possibly, you may wait until after the budget is dealt with by the assembly." "[James Weiner] I think I have that option, yes." "[Richard Wexler] Mhm. Then I take it from what you say about um, not wanting to rush in that you're going to wait until you are pretty sure you've got the votes." "[James Weiner] I think uh, I think a shrewd legislator uh, makes sure that uh, he has his ducks in a row before he proceeds." "[Richard Wexler] Weiner thinks he can get the bill through the assembly and the Senate as well. But he may be overoptimistic, the CUB will be lost in the Senate once, last March on a tie vote and there was at least one more anti-CUB senator in that chamber now, than there was then." "[Eileen Berger] What appeared on the surface to be a light piece of legislation was taken seriously today in the assembly commerce and Consumer Affairs Committee. The issue is whether or not service stations should provide air for their

customers and secondly whether or not they should charge for that air. John True, a station owner from West Allis, let the committee know that today's free air is really not free for the dealer." "[John True] In my area I am surrounded by 6 non-service stations. What is a non-service station? They sell gasoline. They sell eggs they sell milk. One sells pornography. Uh, and they do fairly well. [Background crowd: Soft Laughter]. They do not supply service. [i.e.] Air. Toilets. Gas-cans. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, check your oil, check the anti-freeze, what have you. This means that [pause] I have to supply these services not only to my customers, but the customers of these other 6 locations. Soon there will be more. As we all know service stations are uh, going

out and non-service stations are coming in. OK, what is the problem? Why are service stations charging for air? A couple examples - Last Friday, busy weekend, had a large family pull in with their automobile and a large camper. They came from the station across the street self non-service. They purchased their gasoline and could not fill up their air- their tires. So, they came to my station. Typical. [Pause]. OK, because of the large rig tandem tires. This particular vehicle is going to be in my station for a long time it's a small station there's 2 bays, 4 pumps. One vehicle with that tandem trailer tied up my business for 20 minutes. On a busy day I could have 20 or 30 air customers and these are non-paying customers. We do not spend a dime. By the way, as these people left with their truck and our tandem trailer asked me if I had any free maps.[Background laughter].

It's typical. I walked across the street and looked at his gasoline purchase, this man saved 40 cents. That's OK he saved 40 cents, but what about me. [Pause] One of these days your people are going to legislate service stations right out of business and then you're going to have to legislate self-service stations to become full-service stations and then the oil companies and the jobbers are gunna have have to put dealers back in these places because we're going to find out they can operate at a profit. Pay air pumps are not the problem. They may be a possible solution to the problem. The alternative might not be any air at all. "[Eileen Berger] If this bill as amended passes, and service stations will be required to provide air, but they will also be free to charge you for it. If you need to know more about this bill or other legislation. Don't forget the legislative hotline. I looked at some of the questions that came in today and found answers for 2 of them.

One caller asked, what's happening to the clean air bill? Representative Mary Lou Munts from Madison explained." "[Mary Lou Munts] I think your caller is referring to a part of the budget bill that deals with uh, some requirements of the Clean Air Act amendments of 1977. The federal government uh, put the hammer on all the states to really clean up our act, clean up our air. And uh, what the NR proposed in the budget was a permit program on all sources of uh, of air pollution um, that was not required by EPA all they were requiring was a permit program for new sources so that looked like it might head into some political controversy so I had had [coughs] set up a special committee including environmentalists and industry people and we hammered out something that I think is agreed to now and is going into the budget and what it affects is just [pause] new major sources and that's what EPA requires and it's very important we put it through because there are all kinds of sanctions if we don't we can lose uh, uhh, the ability to have new plant start because they would not be able to be permitted, we could lose uh, funds from the Department of Transportation for

projects and non attainment areas we could even lose sewage abatement treatment funds. So uh, I'm pleased we have it in. What- we also have a study set up to look at some of the issues that were raised by what DNR wanted because I think we may want them down the pike. We may want a permit program for all sources but we need more time to look at that. It may help us I think with industrial growth but I think industry has to have a chance to be part of the action and to participate really in understanding why this may be of some real value to the state so uh, at the moment that's ready to go and I think will stay in the budget as our ad-hoc committee recommended." "[New speaker]: Another caller to the legislative hotline asked, what's happening with the assembly bill restricting drug paraphernalia? Representative Jim Rutkowski answered." "[Rep. James Rutkowski] The drug paraphernalia bill was uh, introduced within the last few weeks and that bill essentially provides for a criminal penalty for the types of devices that could be used either uh, smoking, marijuana or some other related drug use. That bill uh,

As a indicated has been introduced and will have a hearing during the fall session of the legislature that could occur most likely in October or November of this year. "[Eileen Berger] If you have a question about legislative business, you can get some answers by calling the legislative hotline. It's toll free statewide at 1 800 3 6 2 9 6 9 6 or in the Madison area, 2 6 6 9 9 6 0. Peggy?" "[Peggy Morell] This is Peggy Morell. I promised you would be meeting some of the people here at the legislature. 42 of the 130 current lawmakers have full time jobs outside the legislature. There are lots of lawyers and farmers, some professors, and real estate brokers. Senator John Maurer of Kenosha is also Captain Maurer. He flies a DC 10 for United Airlines. Today, as he said on the Senate floor, sorting amendments to the budget bill, we wondered if last Friday's tragic air crash and the subsequent

FAA grounding of all American DC 10s, was on the senator's mind." "[John Maurer] Well, right now we're waiting to find out what the FAA comes up with as a fix for the obvious there's a problem with the bolts on the- the jet engine as it attaches to the wing in the engine pylon itself. Uh, what we're finding now is that it wasn't just the bowls but the pylon itself was having some structural fatigue so the FAA delineate delineating a particular fix for it and the airlines are following suit in fixing their aircraft. "[Penny Morell] How long have you been an airline pilot and how do you manage to juggle two jobs?" "[John Maurer] Well I've been an airline pilot for 30 years. I've been a state senator for five years. Prior to that I was in local government. But uh, I fly primarily on the weekends Fridays, Saturdays, Sundays, or Mondays and I'm here Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursdays. Naturely, when we're in session in budget time I spend all week here. "[Penny Morell] Neither of your bosses objects to your to your occupation." "No, United Airlines is eh, really community interested in oriented and as a consequence they're very happy with my being in the state senate and give me all the time I need to

provide whatever time I need for doing my Senate duties. "[Penny Morell] You have two full-time jobs and I'm sure it's not the pay here at the legislature that attracts you here. Uh, why are you in politics?" "[John Maurer] I truly enjoy public service. I did this at the local level, I think I would do it if they cut the pay in half, its not the pay at all. It's just the thrill of the- accomplishing things and uh, I think that's what most of us are here for truly. "[Penny Morell] Thank you Senator." "[John Paul] Briefly another action the assembly considered 4 bills affecting the state's financial institutions. Credit unions were authorized to invest up to 10 percent of their reserves in subsidiary corporations and with Commission approval increase certain investments beyond their reserves. But the assembly tabled a companion bill allowing out of state branches. The assembly also deleted a requirement that State Savings and Loans accept only first mortgages as loan collateral. And gave first approval to a constitutional amendment that would among other things reduce the majority needed to pass banking legislation from two thirds to a simple majority.

Senators continued to win their way through a flurry of budget amendments and you'll hear more about them tomorrow. We hope you'll join us again for Target; the State Legislature. Good evening. [Music] "[Female Announcer] This program was produced by W.H.A-TV, WMVS Milwaukee And the Wisconsin Educational Television Network." [Music Fades Out]. "[Female Announcer #2] The preceding program was brought to you in part by a grant from the friends of channel 21 incorporated.