Washburn Panel Looks at Crimea-Ukrainin Stand-off

from peaceful demonstrations in kiev to last sunday's referendum to the russian annexation of crimea the situation continues to be tense in ukraine i'm kate mcintyre and today on k pr presents the complicated relationship between ukraine crimea and russia washburn university held a panel on the evolving ukrainian political situation on march tenth with political science professors bob beatty and lindsay not a lot history professor tom price an economics professor dimitri needs outside but first a conversation with dr vitale czarnecki is a professor in the university of kansas slavic department's the situation is very volatile and very fluid basically what this has happened to me as the quote unquote referendum and began her took place on sunday and the official statistics is that over ninety five percent of those people who participated voted to join

russia and that the turnout was supposedly was a very high i believe in the eighties however this is a clearly impossible because it is known that many communities state out and boycotted the referendum and also been reported that and won citizens of us toppled the main navy base in crimea the number of votes corresponding to the population of the city was one hundred and twenty three percent and when you have one hundred twenty three percent of roads a dissertation grey's was eyebrow only a two twenty four hours have passed added diaz self proclaimed crimean authorities house i asked her to russia to let crimea join it house of one of the senior members of the russian federation and president bush has only accepted their request this is very much reminiscent of the absorption of the baltic

states in nineteen forty the way things happened in a storm a lot and they're politically this is almost an exact repeat mission of that scenario so a lot of people who study the history of that part of the world or having a double take that allegations of possible you like tor all on this check a side there are strong indications that crimea is in fact strongly pro russian and they they aren't much more russian thinking than the rest of ukraine well grainy is indeed a special place within ukraine it stems from the fact that much of the indigenous population of crimea which survived world war two was deported immediately after a saudi troops to retake it the crimean tartars as well as the greeks about the events and the armenians were all deported from crimea and there are

people who mostly live there now are descendents of those who came and settled in those areas which ruined the local abroad they are in an organized fashion by the soviet authorities after world war two from russia from russia so the russians are considered ethnic people or identifies i think russians' constitute about fifty nine percent of crimea is population however the most recent trustworthy independent all that was taken several weeks ago indicated that only about forty forty one percent of the local population and she was supportive of an idea of the journey russia and identify themselves primarily as a russian so the jump from forty to ninety seven within just we weeks a search of their unusual and needless to say this also happened within an arm president's half

he very heavily weapon eyes the army professor timothy you tell us a little bit about your background i was born and grew up in odessa which is they're large port city on the black sea in the south of ukraine odessa is primarily russian speaking city that is a city with a very heterogeneous population it was found in the late eighteenth century as a commercial port it was always open to the world so if it is one of the great european ports all mediterranean port cities which i was really famous in the nineteenth century the way tree asked was omar say or alexandria in soviet days of the sofa of a bit of an up on the hard times but it's still a major city with a population more million and the major center for research and education but industry and the same time it's also a tourist destination and as i said because

the city's history is that it isn't commercial port it means that it's a place where people of their different background had to get along in order to transact a commerce in another city could grow and prosper so in that sense odessa us profile denotes predominantly russian speaking is quite different from crimea was arraigned haitian i was on the navy or on a tourist industry domestic tourist industry within the soviet union so what's been your reaction as he watched the situation unfolded and not just crimea that kiev as well well the idea certainly a house been an emotional rollercoaster and many ukrainians are people care about ukraine alverez stressed because there was great excitement to be success of the pro democracy protesters the fact that they were proceeded going peaceful non violent manner there was great shock and

horror when unfortunately violence broke out in more than a hundred people died there was also hope and elation when it turned out that the old regime was a colossus with a clay feet about oh crumbled really really fast there was an outrage when people realized the full extent of corruption of the old regime and the treasures that they plundered from the national economy and then of course tremendous stress and anxiety because we can clearly see that the russian government is trying to stoke tensions in the areas of ukraine where russian is the predominant language of communication whether people identify themselves as ukrainians first or in some different ways and we have to bear in mind that there is a legacy from the soviet times when people identify themselves for

marilyn terms of their ethnicity but one of the great accomplishments of the recent months it's the maturing of the ukrainian city commission when people feel that irrespective of their background language preference or religious beliefs political orientation and they feel that they are citizens of ukraine forest so a lot has been accomplished and i say great majority off the nation strongly feels this way but obviously that that was a minority who is interest in unfortunately in sowing discord or who's very much nostalgically for selectively remembered soviet days we have to remember the late sixties and seventies was a time of relative stability and relative prosperity for ordinary soviet citizens so no one one remembers things selectively one one emphasizes that

and kind of russia's under the rug the fact that it was terrible political repression and then that stability and relative comfort of everyday lives i was also the only thing people knew because they didn't have a chance to travel because this is a very close society and means that it's very much based on false memories do you think that perhaps the media has overblown that division in ukraine between eastern thinking and western thinking ukrainians well i think that emphasis on division was probably indeed overblown because in ukraine it's not as clear cut as cepeda deep division between french speakers in flanders speakers in belgium where there is a very clear to marketing line in ukraine there is a grey area there in many shades of gray and transitions and when you always take it to extremes a day might seem quite shocking and in fact it makes more

sense i think and several commentators have suggested is that we should see ukraine as a diverse state and the diversity is a source of strength and not necessarily a source of problems you mentioned earlier the shock that many ukrainians were feeling when they've discovered just how corrupt the regime had ben surprise could that have banned people must have had some inkling of bag that all was not well well even though people clearly understood that war was not well and the corruption was rampant the just seeing the palaces all the former president you know coach or the prosecutor general trumka which make saddam hussein's palaces in iraq look like so a great house was really shocking the fact that they really eight hundred treasures from the museum so you

saw a museum quality paintings some of them worth millions of dollars are mysteriously hanging there when you saw that line that there was not enough medicine for children with cancer and state run hospitals millions off dollars were spent on fancy wood paneling swivels palaces or for creating a private zoo or doing other things of that nature it's db very brazen less of that corruption that did take some people aback because they expected things to be corrupt but the scale was greater than anyone had anticipated professor chemerinsky you still have family in ukraine have you heard from them and what's their reaction been well one of the things that i would like to emphasize is that many of my relatives off the younger middle generation people in their twenties thirties

and forties even if they were totally a political before recent events of eight i became also developed strong civic consciousness and this to me was a very welcome and very remarkable thing to see i would say the people of the older generation who will basically are in their sixties in my parents' generation they are very much worried because they remember soviet days and they also were the one's called the economic turmoil the nineties hit really hard because when you're older it's really hard to adjust to the new ways of things so i think there is a strong generational divide that basically i would say people in their forties and younger a very much pro democracy oriented whether they come from the east and the center of the western of the southern part of the country a love for the older generation the stealth

oversaw the days is probably stronger but in general they are right now it's the view of stress is probably paramount because after a feeling for just a few days that's what people struggled for so hard was within reach all the saudi view it as being in danger off stolen brazenly by a neighbor who is an attempt to surround itself with the combo for states we're not allowed to strongly develop or to integrate into european collective organizations weather the european union or nato or others is certain heartbreaking so right now the city issue is still very volatile and very wide open and we're not sure how it is going to continue we'll see what

happens what you think that we americans maybe don't understand about the situation in ukraine and crimea well i think the most important thing is to emphasize that we house in ukraine a very different cultural civilizational phenomenon that emerged in the past quarter century in data on indifference from russia with your photo and tendencies were very strong ukraine is a place where there was a very lively and diverse political sierras it's the diversity of the country that there is diversity of languages there's a diversity of ethnic backgrounds are for instance american spy don't realize that the current acting president is a baptist minister for

russian speakers from the southeast of ukraine and mostly people think that this is a division off orthodox christian sources catholics east west and blossom in their presence of the jewish minority but ukraine at some extent it is also said that the bible belt of the former soviet union for example and a lot of average a local christian school immigrated to this country and they especially larger numbers in the pacific northwest actually come from ukraine even though many of them are russian speakers but as to other large community back home so ukraine is also a place about really feels that it has strong a part of europe and that indifference from russia which or was treated the idea of european civilization as something different as something that russian engages with body is

different ukraine has always strongly felt that it is part of europe and that's how it wants the rest of the world to see it and therefore at the ukrainian protests where about european and western civilization as an idea but personal freedom about dignity about democracy about freedom of expression freedom of choice and therefore the rest of the world really cost to send messages of moral support to the speed boat eyes several european leaders set ukraine is the only place where people paid with their lives they would their blood for the idea off possibly joining the european union and has not happen anywhere else in the world this is something this city who should bear in mind professor vitale czarnecki thank you so much for listening with me today no problem until my pleasure thank you for giving me this opportunity dr

vitale to annette ski is a professor in the university of kansas slavic department he is the originally from the city of odessa in ukraine was free university recently held a panel discussion on the evolving situation in ukraine this panel took place on march tenth prior to last sunday's referendum on crimean independence we'll first hear from professor tom price who teaches history at washburn and gives us a little historical perspective on the complicated relationship between ukraine crimea one of the striking things about ukrainian history as for how that law that we can actually talk about a distinct independent ukraine foreign domination in the first days is lithuanian predominant or lithuanian bullish depending on how you want to count it so that much of ukraine are under the control of them new kind of emerging central european empire in this period of the middle ages though you'll notice

that the crimea is actually now under the jurisdiction of that nude that lithuanian collision far but is rather the crimean calm and connected up to the mongol invasions article the war as they were called and russia and a separate autonomous kind of stay in that region so that covers the medieval period a period ukrainian historians call the ruling that says something about what can ensure the ruling as a period just because people struggle for control and out of that emerged can approximate is the territory of ukraine that stands as its own as a sort of independent nation for about a century or so before collapsing again under foreign domination in his next phase in this will be held on long chunk of leading into modern history in this next phase divided up

between the austro hungarian empire and the west and in the east of course a growing imperial russia and ukraine will disappear partitioned between those two states for the period leading up to the modern era in the meantime however something else is happening that is very interesting in the crimea which is that that has fallen firmly into russian imperial control they have remained at the russian empire has as new russia and they are very assiduously resembling and with a new population mostly russian but also strikingly people from ukraine being brought into new russia to sell and reinvigorated as as we see them poor outposts of an expanding russian empire so that's the story that covers up all the way up until nineteen seventeen up until basically world war one it's at that point that things really confusing several things happen more and that journey

and the ottoman empire which is to control parts of that against russia and britain and france right in the midst of that war the russian revolution it rubs it's a period of real chaos drop the central eurasian characterized and it's a period in which that chaos is reflected above all else and struggles in ukraine there are up on internal opponents to the new soviet regime the white army those include just anti anti soviet factions but they also include nationalist michael if that was a nationalist and people like that rosser see that there are foreign invaders the victorious winners of world war one that invaded soviet russia are trying to reverse the revolution and they didn't succeed in that but the british the americans the french are and that actually the japanese were all involved in invasions against soviet territory during this period in which they were fighting a

civil war clearly a pretty chaotic period for a brand new revolutionary state a bunch of this struggle is happening right in the heartland of crimea i am the uk so ukraine in crimea are a central kind of landscape for this series of struggles at the tail end of world war one senators are ready are this is also the point at which we actually get for a brief period and independent ukraine set ironed that an independent ukraine that declares itself the socialist republic of ukraine has its own revolution centered on the capital kiev their petition for an independent state sent to the versailles conference in nineteen nineteen with the congress that was selling the end of world war one issues right and it says final claim to an autonomous status in the settlement their so we finally get an independent ukraine like the soviet independent ukraine and it will fairly rapidly cost him too the union of soviet

socialists and socialists soviet republics so that it becomes part of the ussr after very green window as a sort of independent socialist day right to the end of world war one is a pretty complex pretty nasty history is about to get messier because in the period of the lemons grammar rule of the soviet state up until nineteen twenty four among the policies encouraging ukraine or aggressively ukrainian house it's promoting ukrainian language development for promoting ukrainian allowing for some autonomy for the eastern orthodox church unlike in russia itself so in the early period of the soviet state there was actually as part of the national spark national policies of the new soviet regime an attempt to encourage a surge in independent ukrainian identity which had at least some successes but understand all this would be fundamentally reverse reverse first of all with

collectivization and collectivization with their drive to private and private property to essentially collectivize all their culture and the cost to this for ukraine are enormous for a couple reasons first and foremost those farmers that have been most successful hundred lemons earlier policy the new economic program were the ones targeted by stalin for elimination our second collectivization also lead to massive distribution problems massive problems of actually getting across an are that's followed by the period right on the eve of soviet entry into world war ii where partly as a strategy to block at expected not the interests in the region to start actually to depopulate these regions are specifically because they're worried about german cooperation when the nazis come right so some massive population resettlement follows the compensation process and then of course that it occupied by nazi

germany during occupation and no mass population exodus this one of course the predictable and once you get nazi occupation the elimination of ukrainian jews large numbers of jews shipped off to the extermination camps and nazi germany and the nazi occupied poland during the period of nazi occupation at the end of the war is liberated liberated by soviet troops in nineteen forty four so before the enforced they'll end of the european war but what gets liberated is a pretty decimated city it's been decimated both by soviet tactics which are little bit scorching burn the lesson learned from the polling after all it's worsened by a chorus of nazi tactics which were to destroy before leaving behind and so kiev is massively destroyed by the end of world war two and in the case of crimea stalin blames crimean tatars one of the ethnic groups within the crimean peninsula blames them for siding with the nazis during the occupation and very

deliberately reports them to the gulag system in the wake of the war ii on ads appearing which ukraine actually grows territory as a soviet socialist that most notably edition of the crimean peninsula which is added in nineteen fifty four relatively late in the soviet period if you think about it globally i'm actually standing right there pretty much all of those soviet socialist state i have no doubt that russian populations but pretty large other ethnic populations figuring into high and that's especially true of ukraine as the soviet union dissolves and reconstituted itself in some ways as a commonwealth of independent states and as mcconnell is intended to sort of be at trade unions so that the soviets don't give up everything goes as the soviet union as it existed

before collapses but it also sets up some interesting problems in ukraine the biggest problem is about the nature of its population this is a very divided population and broadly speaking the areas on the west are voting pro european and are mostly ukrainians beating the areas in the east are voting for russian federation and are mostly russian speaking the orange revolution in two thousand or was set up on the overthrow of very very pro soviet an ex soviet leadership in the re establish a more democratic framework but it's within the context of that democratic framework that we have a problem that we're facing now course is exactly over disputes surrounding the election and of course russian forces occupying the communist it didn't the president is there is a map that's tom price he teaches history at washburn university and

moderated this panel on ukraine crimea and russia on march tenth two thousand fourteen when the marmite teaches political science at washburn she talks about the demonstrations in kiev the eu had offered an association agreement to kind of like laying the foundations for possible joining the european union when you came along or trade deal on around thirty million dollar loan and he greets you weren't in the teacher different things however it's a moment to go through right now they want greater freedoms in ukraine as well as the release of those people that were arrested who appear to be for political reasons rice russia however is that walker out that you know your lungs outside visiting billy payne wanted any second only thirty eight million so nicely three percent so it appears to be in a better deal especially when you know we are the country and

even sang the nominee and your pockets yes because that's what he was doing yes ok seventy million right here already in energy and what you listen to get the more money you're going to waste the money into the crypt leader seems ok and so they voted in the parliament wanted to join eu agreement of a pale and they decide to take on the russian steam instead and this led to the protests that as a lot of young people in kiev and throughout the region and saw their hopes dashed of the eu passport of jobs in the us that they knew that they want to have more democracy and things that they desired answer the protests began and then you begin it and spread for economic conditions really poor economic conditions worsened during the soviet union time period and people are really tired a lack of opportunity for an incentive protest didn't have jobs they protest

then it became more about democracy rule of law so as the government's been restricted certain freedoms press freedoms and protests freedoms repressed and stories about how the government finding different opposition members in the hospital taking away torturing a little bit let him go then the story spread throughout the public and that led to more protest so as the country became more threatening more protests spread and then you get corruption as do a single is alleged to be corrupt and other leaders have been there just tired of corruption always so this guy named cost to get rid of him let's give someone else can clean up our government i've seen estimates from the peterson institute for economics at ten billion dollars making and yet in college still from the states right now the us has done the us government has given officials in kiev hoping the paper trail trying to find where all the money went i didn't even telling stories but at his policy is to involve

fossett's and when he left he was in the process learning all the documents that show that where all the money was spent and is usually just name plains on animals than any the way he got a lot of money with that would believe that houses he built in graft so he charges a ten thousand dollars for the nameplates and germany three made a lot of many of honesty in that way too is burning on documents of combined and the hope is that when the investigation that ukrainian state can investigate and other than banks in europe and looking at the money and to get back as much as they can so what about public opinion you might ask yourself did people support that joining the eu and and that it is true that the lessons anything more support in germany and in the eastern side and estimates are probably ninety percent of eu agreement in the fall we have different public opinions that ask if you have comments indianapolis president so the majority population did not reduce their

major events at seven percent were displeased with the economy in sydney nine percent with the political state of various islamists a lot of discontent in society however did this translate to support the protesters so what happens then and i think that's an indication of that divide between ukrainian speaking eastern side of the country in the russian side of the country and lead it however they are united in their dislike yeah the culture as much we know it here and the displeasure with the economy so they may dislike in college but not necessarily support of the protestors and you might ask how it turned into baskets for a long time the protests are peacefully and the protestors claim that they were asian robotic two hours or government people that snuck into the protest camp and then started throwing rocks and and bonds into the police and the police had to respond so they claim they did not start

the violence but it with government people that temple to the protesters and then sort of the violence that erupted there and i laid out some different dating other protests began in november but ended in january these heat out and others of raw like physical violence inside the parliament then in time what he so they get passed laws are easily without people people know we didn't even say oh yeah it's overwhelming support yes the protest last time and when the prime minister resigns we are it's amazing we get when you resigned and he and the prime minister was part of this coalition and he was russian speaking east apparently we are however it's still not what the protestors wanted which is sacrilege to leave and so they did not stop

their protests when violence erupted between protesters and police there were snipers in the universe are exactly but they were and i really did not expect the images were on this wide and i was really worried about was what happened to my knee the syrian conflict this sort ever goes on peaceful and i thought i'm not hearing any sort but amazingly three days later when a college leaders exit out of their taxes that does he may have been unwilling to cause more violence people been unwilling to kill more of his countrymen i did our three reports though that seminal band the mothers of people in the military had started protesting the military barracks afghanistan's not to go out to the streets because that would be the next step for the government to call the military had to

stop the violence so it may have been that none of the reason we get the support of the military to crack down on the pressure but he didn't leak and they were you know the prime ministers and the presidents got to that form a new coalition a new prime minister in scans for that time for ukraine into twenty seven armed men seized the crimean parliament and raised a russian flag and he's our man or question mark or not for sure exactly who they are russians kenyans are pro russian but that didn't happen anytime you're doing this in response to the legal coup in kiev so he acted out loud and when you cannot do as well lindsay mama my teaches political science at washburn university asked as professor bob beatty well i don't know all this talk about is a simple solution and no one's mentioning which is ever on boycotts the upcoming winter olympics and seven

it's funny to think that this is all happening is the week before the winter olympics is all about but i didn't mind about being a huge international relations at washburn and jews and russians several times twice i went to a cavern where i went or couscous and then i ended up in vladivostok and waved to alaska and it was an amazing amazing experience because i got to interact with russian cities universities you way far away from moscow but there was one question that appear once the violence an unusual question and it appeared again just in the question and then it occurred again in different regions of russia and i never in my life even heard this question and in the audience the russians would raise their hand and

say why you know americans always take credit for winning record and i'd never done but what it all made because i kept hearing this question was that there was some serious nationalism at the end of the two thousands and maybe what's happening here we all of the cia but fairly predictable eye and that this is the crest of the mississippi says a crescent of what sort of has been the coalition russia since the end of the two thousands so i want to just briefly talk about international system's because if you turn on the tv you're actually see people president obama what to do and i did quit my son last night and out for the record he said no i'm not going to die for the crimea and that's that's really the question we do we ask listeners people who are yelling president obama or something and the reason is as i tell my classes if you're

in topeka kansas and their sound is a bad actor somebody you know attacking you're breaking in your house or something or whatever you call nine one one and you know usually police arrived quickly and then a whole system falls and that lets the police come in and so they arrest the guy and take an immediate press charges and then there's a maybe a trial with prosecutor and i'm a lawyer and if he's convicted he goes to a prison but the taxes to pay for it all the system is that someplace that we've been that we set up and as i tell my classes what if there's a bad actor and the international stage who you call and that's really the question that's a question about this entire crisis and so i hope many of you know after world war one that was a lot of people thought that was the end of everything i was awarded end all wars we can't have that happen again bad actors there was a genocide there was poison gas

those thirty thousand british dead before noon and millions jill hooley going to call next time this seems to be happening again and the first and last the political science phd us president woodrow wilson said i have an answer we will formally of nations and we'll do something called collective security that means numerous countries will agree that when there's a bad actor we will tell that bad actor you can't do it because the repercussions are so heavy roll band together to stop it and then of course most of you know wilson got here to sign on to this shocking pink and he came back the united states and the us is training now so if you're interested in alternative fiction writer in all but one of the us us actually joined the league of nations the us did not and so that idea that collective security

eric and so they're after world war one there was no real system that all in place it was a series of cut the country's looking out after their own interests and some alliances and of course most famously there's no system system led to possibly that you know the two most heinous entities in the history of the world the nazis and the japanese if you talk to chinese japanese ahead and asked what they did mention all across china or all across southeast asia that really was the epitome of evil evil incarnate rose up almost took over the world so there came to be this idea in international relations that there needs to be some kind of system and of course it naturally came about after world war two to form a bipolar sister united states and the soviet union and this is called a bipolar system of course there's many other actors but there was these unwritten rules

that there was fears of influence by the by the truth or powers ussr and the united states and then eventually they come due they came to agree that they would never allow anything to get so out of hand like a pattern will work to get a sense of the world could not be that close to being and so the us and the soviet union had spheres of influence and that's how the game was was played they recognized each other's spheres of influence even if they win they fought over the spheres of influence all through latin america through the middle east and so that the greatest example is the invasion of afghanistan the russians so it's going in afghanistan and the us is in the west is not to go to war over afghanistan that they supply the opponents to the russians they put on economic sanctions they boycott the olympics with the russians are still active and there's a cost to the invasion but it doesn't cause world war three day there's a limit to what each side

can do to each other and there's a ribbon of rearmament or the soviets in the nineteenth century nineteen ninety one so what's the deep vault yet a bipolar sister and you have two possibilities you've got china they're actually can score their no condition to rise up and say we'd like to be new bipolar power and the russians sang in our out of this game is too expensive and so the united states because of the volume of color power which it really doesn't want to be and so president the first president bush as a seance with woodrow wilson i'm in the green room of the white house and you know we forget all this the first president bush said i envision a new world order does anybody remember that amazing to look back but the new world order would be that the united states would remain very powerful and zero also in all institutions and of

course that the military might but going back to wilson's bad actors would be punished or sanctioned through the collective security of the united nations and let's try it out over there and to interact and see if it works for invading saddam we got this is perfectly good test out this new world order and actually sort of weren't all these countries got together again that together told saddam hussein's are you can't invade a country went to war over so long to wait but after that there became something is there is a fear is called amor shimer an international relations who said that there is a tendency towards something called buck passing which is the whole idea that collective security is if everybody has to chip in everybody's supposed to sacrifice a bit but who wants to sacrifice you don't have to right so

after the iraqis were kicked out of kuwait there was a policy of containment for ak and the only one in the end who really did anything about or hack was the united states and great britain later we found out that almost everybody else was doing under the table doing under the table deals including germany and in russia and there are all these other countries and agree to all the sanctions were doing the un was even corrupt and so the new world order the last remaining member of the party combating famine the us actually sent troops to somalia under this idea of a new world order that the new order collective security could combat hunger and disease through military force and that in turn out there and of course the lowest point of the at the end of a new world order was rwanda in which they're genocide occurred and after the fall of soviet union the world couldn't even send

fifteen thousand measly armed troops to africa to stop the genocide couldn't do it because nobody wanted to sacrifice and peace including the american people will not have a major countries so they went from going to defend the kuwaitis in of the new world war in this massive gulf war to open a three wood when i have a few people die in africa stop a genocide so you had this sort of a system in which the united states was that you know more power and i caught a wave the unabomber's system meaning at some points to us like after nine eleven is very vigorous you're with us or against us were going to go to war and then there's a sort of blowback encounter action the wave goes lower and then it's britain and france and the us come on we can go into libya just it'll all work out in seoul reluctantly us falling into libya so this is that the current international system right now people

say well this is like the cold war and there's one huge difference and that all while this has happened the two key institutions haven't built up and they faltered amid gone back and forth of points that almost disappeared but they survived and they've been slowly built up multiple what is the eu hughes the crisis economic crisis and a few years ago so it's still a very powerful economic bloc and it is a western slash eastern european economic bloc but just as importantly is the key difference between nineteen ninety and two thousand fourteen for russia is made up so i tell my classes that they should be having parades and latvia estonia all brainy and romania where because though the parades for the diplomat who in nineteen ninety said let's go and made it because what

did russia do right now russia can take the crimean ok they can take the crimea when they might be able to somehow when i will take in eastern ukraine ok you know the greater threatening state of moldova kazakhstan belarus as it's just not credible that the situation has changed so dramatically from nineteen ninety one and and yet couching this in cold war terms that russia does not have many cards left however russia wants to be a power but it's going to be a power that in the end didn't take georgia may be crimea and then and then in doing so they're clearly going to push the rest of ukraine into the eu and nato and if they haven't already so it this point it looks like you know it looks like the

western us is weak but actually what the west and the us has done in the last fifteen years and not you know how many people did president bush or president obama or any president great credit when they were decided in the end to nato but what they've done by having nato bulk up so is essentially make it impossible for russia to every claim know the spirit of tolerance that it happened and maybe it's because of that that couldn't has become so angry a long way the demonstrations in russia that occurred in the six months earlier and so i guess what i'm coming from this is this is actually not a demonstration of russia's strikes what it is is actually of the almost a desperation ploy to get one little piece of something before him sadat because they saw the knowledge ukraine might be leading us opioid our fleets they're at least get that day so the question is for

the international system for the un for the eu tornado and i'm saying that or you know do you want to go to and that's a big question of the lady teaches political science at washburn university if you're just joining us washburn university held a panel discussion on the evolving political situation in ukraine crimea and russia on march tenth two thousand fourteen the loudspeaker at this event was dimitri meets the south who teaches economics at washburn it's us that is from russia with ukrainian roots as well he was given the task of giving the official russian position and ukraine well their position is well i once was lost is using egyptian president he remains the president of ukraine so awe well reiser did not stop the current crisis or russia hacked into here to

lake boy and you know what i was part of the debate about the georgian war in two thousand eight and at that time yeah i mean it looked very efficient in how this point i don't see a gun political scientists are going to do it and we sell that and again this is official russia position so i guess i learned not long past you had to get in the water to invade ukraine right so it's just we're all in preparation for possible emergencies saw that parliament the russian parliament gave and good to know that the car bombs in case he needs ok so interesting facts all out there got elected really played a role in the president's advance

so in two thousand but he's a new grade signed an agreement to wage that russian losing ride the naval facilities and at that the naval base in sevastopol in west indies for twenty five years until two thousand and nine forty two so so really while the russian military is there a legitimately based on this debate on the treaty signed by two legitimate presence of a lot of personnel that the russians allowed to keep kennedy opted twenty five thousand so is it is it possible that price increase the number of troops possible but it was all within the group in terms of the treaty well so far in crimea

that i mean it's interesting that just this morning i picked up from friday and that we could make of michael clayton is writing wrote about his own experience in crimea is if you haven't heard the evidence it's so are and a couple of course all wrestlers this is alaska and russia cannot ignore calls for help and act accordingly in full compliance with international soccer what is it so there is a strong indication that the road and one wanted to try to resolve not the case because all that he's in it of their nationality groups trying to get rid of russia it cost and you know that'll be a dangerous scenario for grain and for the entire region made from internal so you know if you fall that music you're you've seen probably more cocktails being

thrown out of involvement was the police then there is the cd story was after all who was shooting and so and so and so and then the first things that you love you've gone to it when it was due allowing russian to be recognized as a regional language and all they do is that the police force effectively giving the bar to walk to the crop and do you know that so you know that's going to get that dozens of the visa visa so that's why it wasn't true say that we would not interfere because this is

a bad things may happen to our neighbor neighboring country and so we you know we need food well i don't think that russia is you find you know and you say and so because of all the rockets russia's far as to some extent is well and so you hear mommy the jewelry major sources in russia i was a singer voices against russian importance call saul also they say in russian that russian troops are pretty grimy and illegally reserves of sovereignty was operative goal is dressed great me a while the

same song visited places and card as he did get in a fight and the city yep while that referendum that was illegal was a russian troops are there for a reason to read it and you know what is just doing all this just distracts russian people from being drawn russians so are i agree with that i sought out assad while some ports meaning from his recent interview to washington pulls us so the west must understand that to russia ukraine can never be just a foreign country and this is what i get from tulsa discussion it should be apparent to so watson did say that he did for the west the demonization of women his multiple a season of life with the absence of applause that's professor dimitri need science of putting former us secretary of state henry kissinger excess of was speaking at a march tenth panel discussion at washburn university along with professors bob bailey lindsay model maude and tom price

before that we heard from university of kansas professor vitali czarnecki who teaches in a k u slavic department i'm kate mcintyre if you have any questions or comments about today's keep your present drop us a line on kansas public radio's facebook page or you can email me my address is kate mcintyre at pay you back edu that's k m a c i n t y r e hey you guys edu kbr presents is the production of kansas public radio at the university of kansas at

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