The American Scene; Fine Arts Quartet

Good morning, this is Howard Vincent doing the arts and as I have said in the past occasions I have come to talk to you and talk with people on the program, the arts we have in mind are the arts of Chicago, not that I peculiar to Chicago but of which Chicago has achieved distinct, in which Chicago has achieved distinction. And remember we took up the art of literary biography, we'll come back to that again later with another achievement. We took up the Chicago landmarks, the great buildings which we should take pride in and which I hope will take pride in as a result of what was said last time. And now we turn to another one of the arts in which Chicago has made significant, is doing significant work and that is the art of music. And this was brought to my attention recently by the tour which in the Chicago organization made of Europe last year. Now this tour was by a fine arts quartet, many of you have heard of the fine arts quartet and you're going to hear much more about it in future months and

years. It's an organization dating back to 1946, it's done a lot of the television work, a lot of radio work, you probably do know it. But this tour of last spring received worldwide attention. Time magazine for example drew up a very flattering report of it. And what interested me is that since I was once a cultural officer in abroad for United States, was the attitude of the Europeans towards an American organization during work in music, playing their own composers as well and generally better, then their own quartets, their own musicians were able to do it. And for instance the Amsterdam paper, a wrote of this quartet, the highest praise can scarcely suffice, they have made us aware that along with a harshly materialistic there is another America. And of course this coming out from Chicago impressed them in Geneva. One is struck by the extraordinary ensemble of these four musicians who have come from Chicago with something other

than car and beef in their suitcases. Well they do have indeed a lot more than car and beef in their suitcases. Let's hear just a little bit of one of their quartets they played in. This is Beethoven quartet, Opus No. 15. You can get some idea there, finesse from that, just a little bit. Of course you can get the record in here the whole thing. We're lucky in talking about this great organization to have today the first violinist Leonard Sarkin. Leonard is very nice to have you here to talk to you about this wonderful tour. I suppose you're still under the glow of that tour. Oh yes, it stays with you for a long time. Well one of the things that interested me, let's get these homely details in here. You took your families, is that right? Well I should say, you see we were gone for almost four months. Yes. That's a long time to be away

from your wife and children. Well last, the second violinist took his family, no we didn't take his. Not this trip, wasn't it? The Topkin took his two. How did you travel by plane or what? Well we traveled across by plane and then we traveled throughout the continent by car. We each had a car for each family. What kind of car did you have? Well we had, let's see there were two Mercedes, one Renault and one Citroën. We had a good mixture. You must have been crowded son, what were your instruments and baggage? Well we all had luggage racks on top of the car and surprising what you can put into those things. You didn't, you left the cars when you went on to Israel, didn't you? Yes. We left them in Rome. But you covered every country on the main countries in Europe? Just about. We started with, well geographically speaking, we started with Denmark and made a quick side trip over into Malmo, Sweden for a broadcast and we did Holland, we did Germany, France, Switzerland, Italy, Portugal,

Greece and Israel and England, also England of course. How many concerts did this represent? 55 performances all told. And how long at time was this? Actually three and a half months, slightly under three and a half months, three and a half months including travel time, two and from Europe. How could you get any time with sights on where this goes? A little bit, but fortunately I let my wife do the sights and I enjoy it vicariously. Because I suppose the people think that once you've learned a piece you never have to rehearse it, although you must rehearse all the time, don't you? Well you see we carried such a large repertoire with us that we had to do quite a bit of rehearsing. We actually performed over 30 different works in this period. What works interested your audience is, I suppose you had different reactions? Oh yes. The general concert audience in the average town in Europe I think was generally interested in hearing the standard repertoire. Schubert, Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, and Brahms, with a little sprinkling of contemporary of course. But

particularly in England and the radio stations throughout Europe they were very interested in the contemporary and American composers. More sophisticated than other words? Yes, the radio does a very important job in Europe in presenting things that probably wouldn't be heard otherwise on their musical scene. Oh the BBC's head. Oh the BBC's, yes, they are very straightforward about presenting what they think should be heard. What a wonderful thing it is for society. Did you have any interesting experiences in your travels? I understand you went over the Alps and they... Yes, we did and it was snowing about like it is today. Holiday Alps. And we had minor adventures I should say, fortunately nothing major. But we had to go from Gap which is a straight south from Geneva and then after playing a concert there, cross over into Italy to play in Turin. I would say you could play any concert after driving that Gap road. Oh it

was pretty gruesome. We did have an extra day in which to relax our fingers a little bit. But I personally had a little experience. We started out on this trip from Gap and after checking thoroughly with the motor club of France, we felt sure that we could negotiate the pass very safely. They said it was open and that cars were going through alright. In fact they said if you have new tires you don't even need chains. Well since I was driving a new car I thought I would take them at their word and I started out bravely to cross the Alps. And got along very well until just before the final pass in Italy. And I got halfway up this mountain and with the car perched at about a 30 degree angle and making two or three hairpin curves. I got to the last hairpin curve and found that I couldn't move anymore. I was just stuck and no more traction. Great drops off there. It was nothing I needed to side on the hill. Oh you're a terrorist. So I had to back my car around. There was enough

room fortunately to back it around and start down the mountain again. And got back into the town and picked up a set of chains and turned around and this time made it without any palpitations. Well with all this variety of experience, where would you say that you had your most appreciative audiences? Of course they were all appreciative. Which were the high points? Well they were all uniformly very appreciative but there were certain exciting moments I suppose one could call them like playing in the Hague in Holland for one of the oldest term music societies in Europe. Very distinguished and having a resounding success there. And of course the interesting thing is the habits of the audience is different quite widely in the various countries and in Holland they are normally a reserved people, very polite. And they show their enthusiasm while applauding by rising to their feet.

And this of course usually comes at the end of a concert and one is quite pleased to receive it there. We were delighted in the Hague to receive it after the second and third quartets and quite an ovation at the end of the concert. So we felt that that was really a high point. And Holland in general we feel as a very warm reception, this is the second time we've been there. But you also had a warm reception in Israel, yes. The other place that was outstandingly enthusiastic was Israel. Of course I think that their musical audience there is unique in many ways. It's unique in that it's tremendously high percentage for the population. Yes. High percentage of musical literacy, yes, it's tremendous. If you just stop and consider for a moment we attended the one concert of the Israel Songharmonic in Tel Aviv, they have this beautiful new auditorium, Man Auditorium,

which seats about 3 ,000 people. They give each concert in that auditorium six times, that's 18 ,000 people which come to one symphony concert and this goes on all year. They repeat each concert six times in one city alone in a country of two million population. And then they go to Jerusalem played twice and to Haifa played twice more. Over the night it's like that, you have a reason to feel flattered when they said, is I remember reading one of these reviews, this is the best thing America has ever said us. That was a very, very nice remark. Very fine, Liam. You find that there's a tremendous increase in appreciation of chamber music in America. In America I would say so. Can you see that anymore? Oh yes, no question about it. The number of concerts being played every year by chamber music. Yes, very much on the increase, even noticeably here in Chicago too. Well you see, I say this because the first concert I ever went to, and this is before you were barnal and then was to the last concert, the Canaisal quartet, the

great quartet, and it greats and made quite an impression upon me. But that was about the only quartet, you know they had any fame. Now there are a number of them that have a considerable increase in the appreciation of chamber music, and a great increase in the number of concerts being played in this country, and also not only the number of concerts, but the number of cities that have chamber music. I mean like smaller cities, yes, very much so. How many quartets are there in Chicago? I won't, that's the latest question, good quartets, but they're several aren't there. Well there are, I don't believe there is any other full time. No, no other quartet, I don't know. And Chicago, there are a number of very fine groups that are at perform during the season. Would they be at that time? They're called in vulgar terms, a combo, they're put together exactly. I suppose so. The thing quartet I

think has a particularly difficult problem in, and just picking up a group, even no matter how fine they are, it takes a certain seasoning. And also having a particular one represents economic problems, doesn't it? It does that. But either of course there are lots of people who get together and try to have the amateurs. Oh well, that of course I think is reflected in the growth of the audience for chamber music, because the amateur makes the best audience, and I think there is a big growth in the number of people that are indulging in this past time, which is a wonderful one. Which is called a little night music. I know when years ago when I wanted to play in quartet, we could get a violinist, galore, we could get a violist, or a defecting violinist. But we couldn't get jealous easily in the small town I went in. This is our difficulty. There's a

very amusing book, I don't recall the name of the author, and I call the well -tempered string quartet, and which he advises his daughter to study the cello because there always went very much in demand for chamber music evenings. Allow in the driving around, did you play any American quartets? Oh yes, yes we did. Which ones for instance? We played Elliott Carter, Wallingford Rieger, Walter Piston. Let me see, I can't think right at the moment how many we played. You have a listing right there. Ernest Bloch, Quincy Porter, Andrew Embry, and then we did a Mexican composer of Walters. Were they kind of what I was seeing, do you think? Yes, actually, most of these were done for radio broadcasts. They were put on tape and they will be used a number of times on the European broadcasts. Can you ever

run records from these tapes, will there be a possibility that you will do it over again if you do it in the recording purposes? No, there will be recorded especially for recording purposes. All the equipment and the studio facilities and some of these stations are just fabulous. It's the last word in modern microphones and tape machines. And every one of these studios has a, when we come into the broadcast, what they call a tone master usually, the man who is responsible for the setup of the microphone. And then there's the music director who has the score of the music in front of him and sits there all through the taping, watching the score. And these are responsible and for the presentation of it later on. Besides the engineer, there are two other people involved in the presentation of the work. They know their business and they take it very seriously and put a lot of effort into it. The

finance court kept, of course, done so much television work. You were very popular. I recall this one on the today program, weren't you? Yes, yes. We've done about five appearances there and as a matter of fact, we're doing another one just a week in a week or an hour. I'll get up for it. The proof is that people who can stand in the spring quartets even earlier in the morning. I don't want to say anything that gets off the air fast, but I wish I could hear some good string quartets where I was shaving instead of some of the yak that goes on. Actually, I think that was a surprising thing about our first appearance on the today program. Was it, they got such a torrent of mail afterwards and mail which continued month after month after the appearance, that they found that it struck a real note of sympathy with their audience and so they've had us back all at least once or twice a year and actually they had a five year anniversary a few years ago on which our appearance

was voted the most popular musical on the show, which we were very pleased. The one if you shave yourself to a Beethoven on that, then you won't hurt yourself. If you do it to rock and roll, you'll cut your throat as you rock and roll, sure. But the finance quartet is also distinguished itself not only in playing contemporary music so much, but in the, didn't you, I went to the first minute to record part -tox quartets. Well, not the first, no. We were the first to record it stereotyically. It was very fun, yes, it was very fun. But of course, we also did this series of televised programs for the National Educational Network and which we discuss each of the quartets and then perform it. They're being presented now, aren't they? Yes, they are. Is that permitted to say, I think so. It's a matter of fact being shown around the country on the various outlets for

educational television. Well, you people are all educated. You know, I don't want to, well, I can't offend you because I'm flaring you on this, but it is often said that musicians are very unverbal and they aren't musically trained. They're good executives, but they don't know the music they're talking about. But these are playing, but these people do. They're highly educated people. You have one man as a PhD in musicology. Right. Well, I think that's part of a changing picture. The day when the musician and the artist could be off by himself in this so -called ivory tower is gone. I think in order to be a success, one has to reach and communicate with the audience. Well, you have three years of Northwestern, did you as a quartet in residence? Right. And one of the very interesting things and most valuable to us was the lecture course we gave on chamber music in which we really started this type of discussion demonstration of chamber music. That's what led to this the series of I think it I think

it helped develop the kind of style that we did use in this presentation. Aren't you still do some of this live in Milwaukee? Yes, yes, we do. We spent six weeks in Milwaukee at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee branch, giving a series of concerts and also lecture courses for instance. This is a continuing thing that has been good. Yes, we enjoy it very much. In fact, we learn a lot from it. Well, of course, well, that's why they learn a lot from it. And what do you do in these programs? You stop in the middle of a quartet and say, well, this passage is this or do you talk about before I then play the whole part? No, and on these kinoscopes, we talk about it in quite in detail, trying to give the listener a sort of musical guideposts to the entire performance. Yes, and in the case of Bartok, we tried in at least in the first two, there are six quartets and all

in the first one or two to give them some help and how to listen to it. Yes, what are the devices that the Bartok uses musically so that when you listen to it, it just isn't meaningless, it's a jumble of sounds. Don't you find a very curious thing happening here and it happens all the time in the history of music, of course. Somebody like Bartok come along, Mr. Vinsky came along and has to educate a whole generation's ears to hear sounds a certain way and then it becomes classical and old hat. Bartok is becoming classical. Bartok is become a classic, yes, that's right. Well, I think it certainly takes a little time to overcome resistance to something new, but mainly the fact that Bartok was a great composer, a genius, and that his music has an irrefutable logic that must be accepted eventually. And any composer who can present music with inspiration, heart, and logic is going to be heard and understood. Do you have a, the violinist quartet have any favorites or do you

play them with the, oh you must have some favorites? Well, we always say that when we're playing at the moment is our favorite, but actually one can't go far wrong by saying that Beethoven and Bartok are favorites, but also Hayden Mozart. You don't put Schubert in there, well do you? Yes, certainly Schubert is marvelous. It depends on mood you're in, kindly, or when you start to play you work yourself into the mood of a, oh yes, well, Schubert has written some of his best things in his quartet literature, particularly something like the death in the maiden quartet, the minor quartet. It's a different mood, but it's, it's a different mood, it goes on and on and on and on and if it's beautiful on and on. Yes, but sometimes you'd like, yeah, after you hear so much Schubert to say, let's come on, let's get some Bartok in there and cut through this chocolate cake. Well, it's interesting when we program a Bartok quartet that we have to be very careful what we play after it.

Oh, I would think so. And there are very few composers that don't sound as soupy after, after a good, because he's so tight. Yes, so stringent at times. So Beethoven is all the safe after Bartok. Be flattered, I think. Which Beethoven do you prefer the later of the early? Well, depends of course. They each have their own particular facet of interest, but the late quartets, I think we we find particularly rewarding because they they carry us over into a realm which is outside of the mirror technique of writing or even the mere production of sound. It does carry you over into something almost out of this world. What are you people doing now? You've had this tour and that was a great moment, but there's certainly you're going on, carrying on. There was something other projects. What is it? Which are the cards now? We have a number of concerts to do this season including a extended tour of the West Coast. But we right here in

Chicago, we have two concerts coming up very shortly on the 22nd and the 30th of March at Fullerton Hall and their programs of contemporary music which will be given in conjunction with the New York Woodland quintet and we'll be doing some interesting combination works like first performance of an octet by Hindemath. Well, let's we talked about this Bartok. Let's hear a little bit of one of your Bartok quartets. We have time for that. I think we could hear a little bit of it. We're hearing. Now another thing is a track to the great deal of attention and

I think we all should are the instrument you work on. Wonderful instruments aren't they? Yes, they're a very very trice group of old Italian instruments. I have a strata various which was made in 1729 and Abram loft plays a ballastriari which was made in 1772. Irving Elmer plays a gospel viola which is really a museum piece is made about 15, between 1560 and 1580s. It's one of the granddaddy of all the violins. Yes, it is. There are only about a dozen of these instruments and existence anymore. And George Sopkin, the cellist plays a beautiful gulfriller which was made in Milano about 1726, I believe. So Filler was a student that was followed, imitated throughout the 1780s. Yes, and the cellos were very often mistaken for strats and they sound just like them. And these instruments grow in beauty, don't they? They do if they're well taken care of, they're in bad repair, but the age has something to do with it, but they are mighty fine instruments

to start with. You don't like your children when they're four years old to pick them up. And did these attract quite a bit of attention? Oh yes, it did. Italy especially. Oh yes, we were of course playing right in the area of Kermona and they were more fascinated with them there almost than any place else. They're very few of them left in these towns. Possibly descendants of the marriage makers are around there somewhere. Well, that's quite likely. Yes, some of these people are still there. They come up and look at them out there. Oh, I should say they did. The local musicians, the people from the Conservatives, oh yes, they did. They were fascinated with the instruments. And you got these one way or another by one of them interested me because it was days or eight defaults. Yes, that's right. When he left the Chicago scene, he left the violin here to be sold and I came upon it at that time. Actually, when he bought it, he was playing in the string quartet too back in 1920. Oh, yes.

So it's a string quartet instrument. And these instruments do have a history like a person, don't they? I should say alive. I have on mine papers which go back to 1865 in Paris when it was purchased by a grand prize winner in Paris. And so that's now, that'll be, that's recorded somewhere. Yes, there are a number of books, Hill and Son in England and William Lewis and Son here in Chicago. Keep record of these. Well, this has been the final arts quartet. I'm doing the arts and we hope that you'll be with us next week when we will go ahead with another interesting program. Thank you.