Woods & Waters; William Vail

Were gay. Oh do you. Oh fuck. Oh oh you moaned up oh oh. Will you get the wool over with the week with

the wrong as long as. It's in water with your host. But let it go. Well you know it's a good time to talk to Fisheries and Wildlife Commission William. But here are so since he's been on here. Lot's happened in fisheries and wildlife over you have are beginning to show the wear and tear the job was a little gray I noticed on the side here but no different than your days when you were down. What little have got left is turning white on me is turning what you. Think it has been the last four years it's been quite an experience but the last year in particular has been a tough one. In the last four years it's been the thing that is the most revealing. Shall we say surprising about the man of the this job of managing our

resources. What single thing. That you come up against that you never expected. I think the involvement. Evolve means people in the process. For years it was the hunters and fishermen who dealt with these issues it's no longer the case at all. And people from all walks of life are beginning to express their strong interest in terms of the future of fish and wildlife in Maine and our involvement in issues other than hunting and fishing like hydro relicensing and that sort of thing that. Very frankly I had no idea that I'd be dealing with. So I guess that is the scope of the job and the scope of the issues is much broader than hunting and fishing and that's what has been the biggest eye opener to me. Well Bill did you suspect. That this was the case when you were in the field as a game warden that you could see this evolution changing before your eyes. Well I saw at the end I just didn't. I never imagined it would happen as soon as it

has here in Maine and you tend to view Maine as a you know at the end of the road and we can see changes in the southern New England but we don't really like to think that they're going to occur here in Maine when very frankly they are occurring at an alarming rate here in Maine. But you know when I first detected it and maybe I'm wrong but see if there's gels with you I think in. One way had the. Outbreak enters a break in the interesting canoeing. Back about. 15 years ago suddenly you know a canoe was a form of vehicle on water as long as we lived around here. From Birch back to the old I'm going to come a white can or whatever. But about 15 years ago everybody got in a canoe and they were canoe races like I think of the desk. As our dad and St. Croix and all the rest. But I've always felt that when people suddenly get in we can do and saw that this was not a lethal weapon and it can be a safe form of pageview Nyanza are people a lot of people

get annoyed and now. Seemingly every fourth guy you see in the row is going to get on the roof right. Yes I think a canoe is a good barometer of of interest. In the out of doors and certainly the sales of the movies have increased. From my point of view I will listen to what you had to say I think you're exactly right I used to be when you Sarka knew there was either a shotgun or a fly rod in it right. Or going back even a few years. Maybe a set of steel traps were in it. You know the trappers and hunters and fishermen use canoes. Now the majority of canoeists aren't. Hunting or fishing with mapping they're out there enjoying the main for other reasons and there are a great many more of those folks frankly than there are hunters and fishermen. Well I'm glad to hear you say that because I always figured that you know I always said this day was the greatest thing that ever happened to conservation and bringing attention to our resources and so forth but then followed the great interest in knowing.

And it was state wide you could almost see it expand. And the old days you'd go you'd see the front of a sporting goods shop you might have a couple of canoes there now it's not at all surprised at all by that same shop he's got 10 to 15 hanging up on a rock where people make their choices and it introduced a lot of people who are strangers into a river into a Brooks in the back country in a wetlands. Suddenly they were being used by bird watchers I don't mean to carry on here taking time from you but you could always picnickers explorers and photographers. They all got the Google That's right. And you know the real positive side of that although I think it's probably all positive as it was a generally known consumptive use of the resource they're out there enjoying Maine's Fish and Wildlife Resource and not actually consuming it they're not catching trout they're not shoot in India but the same time they're developing a real understanding and a real affection for means fish and wildlife. Which I think will stand us in very good stead over the next decade it will begin to look at the future measurement of fish

and wildlife because now we have a whole new constituency out there who are legitimately concerned about the future of Maine's Fish and Wildlife. And it isn't just the hunters and fishermen anymore who are concerned about this. I think the controversy over began is another example and white water rafting white water rafting introduced tens of thousands of people. To the Penobscot the Kennebec River and those folks are old now advocates for a clean environment and advocates for the renewable resources that we have here in Maine and they are real proponents of the state of Maine. So I think it's very very positive and again it's not just the hunters and fishermen out there anymore. Technology. How are we going to cope with technology. Now I'm sick and you know here we are in the isolation season. We have our August now they can drill a hole 30 inches of ice in 30 seconds. We've got snowmobiles. We've got the finest Dick we've got tense we've got an apparatus we've got the finest clothes the

technology can produce in the market. In the summertime. We've got outbreak is down we've got lower ends but we get everything in the world to catch a fish. You know on top of that more leisure time than we have and we have more time than ever before to participate. How do you cope with that. Well the only tool we have for the course is regulation and trying to maintain. A quality fishing experience for more people every year which is you know becoming more challenging every year. And so we we have to find ourselves making more restrictive regulations over here and going from five fish to two fish on some lakes or going down to one fish or in some cases no fish at all. And it's because of a combination changes like you just mentioned and more leisure time better equipment. And frankly fishermen are a lot more knowledgeable today than they used to be thanks to folks like yourself and others and you can turn on the TV on a Sunday morning and learn about bass fishing or trout fishing on television now. So people are better educated and better equipped than ever before there's more of them than ever

before in the back country is more accessible than it's ever been. And so we have to look at ways of maintaining a quality fishing experience for more people. And and truthfully that comes down to stricter regulation. Well yeah but now it's in the legislation is in session right now. So you are beholden to the legislature. Right. But is that more important than that. Should New be empowered to shun the commission and be empowered to say what we can and what we cannot do it's all regulation I mean just because you put it in the log book and you reduce the catch five fish to two fish or any combination or whatever and so forth won't it be too late. Is the technology advancing ahead of our laws. Hasn't already passed our laws. I don't think that it I don't think that's necessarily true. You know you and I both recognize that a fish finder doesn't catch the fish for you. Certainly power Argos would have had some real impact on ice fishing because of the fishermen are able to fish a lot longer and cover

more water than they used to before. I don't see the power auger as the problem. I see fishing pressure as the problem I don't see the fish finder as a problem. I think we can kind of get it get pretty elitist about this sometimes and be down. You know if you and I had our way probably fly fishing only everywhere. But I don't think it's fair of me as commissioner or you as a journalist to impose our values on all people I think if they could be too late. I don't think so but I think that we can react with regulations I have emergency powers. If because of technology and more fishing pressure for instance the west branch of the Penobscot is threatened by overfishing. I have the authority now to shut it down. I have the emergency powers to do that. Then we can shut it down in the end. Try to develop a more reasonable regulation. I think we have the tools that I want I want and I got to keep going on this because I'm going to ask a tough question. But anyway I want

macro fashion and some with a great great man friend of mine two friends of mine. And fish and God and he's got the depth finder and so forth. All my Macrovision was done in a dory in a rowboat a blue hill down and put off at Long Island then to find a school of fish where you know we have hired a man to put in a pail and that was the end of the day. In our in this great boat. He's got a fish finder and everything all over here and of course we get two three and four. Even the poor little micro of millions and millions of them out there doesn't have a chance with this. Today's equipment and I don't even going to mention the hookers and I'm sure he's watching the cap mad I'm just picking on you. But anyway. In that Karen a little too far. But it isn't for me I guess.

If a guy wants to use a fish I know I find mackerel but you know back of that we have millions of gallons I guess of those things up on the line a quote we hope that we have I'm not sure that we know what we need to know about macular lore of other fish but again if if overfishing. Begins to threaten a population whether it's mackerel or brook trout then we have the we have the legal tools to deal with it. And frankly I'm opposed to. Making regulation changes to address specific pieces of equipment. I think we have a better tool available. Right now rationally. I say this was a terrible lengthening year. Based on talking to an awful lot of people. And that goes from some may go all way up to Long Lake and up a rustic Squire lake a nice grandmothers and all of them in between every man that I every person that I ran into said he had a good year like fish and I suddenly talked to

25 who said it was a pushchair they ever had. Do you think I like fishing is. Slacking off. Some of them have. You mention moose head there's no question that the fishery Moosehead isn't doing as well as we liked it. But you also mention Long Lake up in rustic County which had fabulous fishing issues some of the best landlocked fission that we've ever seen. Came out of Long Lake and that in the Fish River chain the spring Sebago was not all that bleak there were some real nice fish taken Sebago. Sebago was a good example where were trying to provide a quality. Fishery. For thousands of people and begin to soar I guess to be very very difficult there. But I think generally but I would agree this was not a spectacular some of the fish especially on the big lakes I think trout fishing generally held up pretty well in the smaller trouble as with the Big Lakes. We're not outstanding this year by any means. And you don't believe in resting the lake for a complete year.

We've tried it but we tried it was small truck poems where we in the big leagues. The trouble is the first year you open it up you focus an awful lot of attention on it because the assumption is it's going to be that much better. And generally what we've learned through this process is that we focus so much attention in the year that we open it up that we lose all the ground we gain during the closure so it hasn't been especially productive for us to try that out but you're talking about a small party like Johnson and I can name a half a dozen of them as well as you can. But I mean how many more many more people can invade Moosehead Lake. In the single day if you close it for one year close without agitation and say hey listen I got everybody in Greenville mad at me they say what's he saying say better you than me. I know that I know which is to think and. But but you're rested from my face when you're rested from some of fission and let the blending program continue on and get ready is rest.

It might have some. It might have some promise. Let's let's talk about musette for a minute there was criticism of the ice fishing is. Reducing the open water fisherman's opportunity they've taken too many through the ice and there's nothing left for us when we go up there in the spring. My role as commissioner I've got to balance the two right of the ice fishermen to violations they have an expectation for for good fishing experience or able to discriminate against right. So if we're going to make reductions it's got to be even across the board. And the best way to do that in my view anyway it is a reduced bag limit not necessarily an outright closure or reduce bag limit. We can. Fishing is unique and we can't do this with dealing with fishing we can provide the experience we can enjoy the fishing experience without killing the fish. And and and catch and release certainly is is where the state of Maine over the next decade will begin to move I think a lot of other states have a great success with it.

There's an appropriate on all the waters in the state but there are some waters in the state where catch and release may be the only real answer to maintaining a quality fishing experience as not I'm not proposing that for Moosehead Lake but rather than outright closure or reduce bag limit or even fish for fun that I come off and fish y the most Asian in such an early date. There was strong support among the Advisory Council and among some moves was to go back to September which is where we had originally the first three seasons were in September. Because that's what is going on in some of the neighboring to the Canadian provinces and the thought being that. To have the hunt centered on the on the peak of the route when the animals were at their peak condition and when the Bulls would be most susceptible to a call. So that's why we had the September season early on. We eventually moved it into October and and for the last three or four years it had the season in late October. The success rate was high continue to be high you know approaching 93 percent the one year.

But the quality of the of the of the animal and the quality of the hunt. There was some Christian criticism of that the Cline because these big bold moves the big trophy bowls will actually run off two or three hundred pounds in a month's time during the mating season. And they don't come to the call well in late October so there was a strong sense that we should go back to September to get animals when they were at the peak of their condition and when we could provide a real quality hunt when the Bulls would come to a call. So last year we had a public hearing. It was very poorly attended 12 people attended 10 favored a September. There was strong support on the advisory council for going back to September and keep in mind that biologically didn't make any difference to us as managers. It's a social question biologically if you're going to issue a thousand permits. Doesn't make a difference if it's mid-September in mid October or early December. If the object is to issue a thousand permits and take a thousand animals when you have it really is more social and

biological. So we had no real strong concern that way biologically. Like I mentioned the advisory council went along with those at the public hearing and endorsed the September season. I had concerns then I still have concerns now that the most hunted gone so well for so many years. That moving it back to September might create a conflict with those folks who are not moved on in the last week in September of course is the peak of the Fall trout and salmon fishing. And there are a great many folks out in the woods enjoying the foliage at that time a. Very frankly very few people went to last year's moose hunt season. Public Hearing like you mention only a dozen people showed up. I don't think that'll be the case in the future I think we'll see more hunters take pride in these hearings I think will begin to see more people who are not moved on as come in and take part in these hearings because. Most hunters are not the only people affected by when we have the hunt.

Typically my mail on this year's hunt ran very much against the timing of it and I got letters from folks who I feel that we're very much in the same business with and that's that's the Greenville Chamber of Commerce the Rangely Chamber of Commerce the chamber in Millinocket. They the real supporters of Fish and Wildlife and hunting and fishing in that part of the state is certainly big business. Their concerns were that by having a hunt in September there was a conflict between not a direct conflict head to head conflict between hunters and fishermen but the fishermen are out there the least people who are out there and they would just no need to have the moose season then if we just wait until the first week in October. Fishing season is over. October is regarded as hunting season. And we we can avoid this conflict which in my view was unnecessary there's no need that they have moved something that last week in September. So as we begin to go through the process of setting this season and others I think will begin to see people other than hunters taking a part in the decision making process it goes right back to

the first statement on the program when you have pointed out that fishermen and hunters aren't the only people to have a right to observe and to enjoy this resort. That's right. And well and also and I have to agree to you know that last week efficiencies into fly fish and I think of the roach for example the example. You know I'm sure that's perfectly all right you and I go fishing down then take a chance as I'm sure but I think there might be an accident when somebody would fire a moose and a human being would be the victim would be really tragic. It isn't just a safety issue. There is there is somewhat of a conflict I think between you know having a movie season opened at that time and it isn't entirely a safety issue. I get letters from folks who say we enjoy coming to Maine to see a movie but also we just don't want to see it in the back of pickup truck. That's the kind of conflict I'm talking about when the season has gone very well we're very pleased with the way it goes and I think by moving into October we can avoid that.

That's sort of a you were leading me around to my question. You're not going to increase the number of permits. I don't have the authority. I know you don't. You're going to support. I don't think it will be an issue this year. I certainly support it the last time it came I know you did. I would like very much for the department to have the authority to adjust the number of permits based on the annual census. And we don't have that now we're limited to a thousand a thousand. Many years would be adequate. Maybe other years when we'd like to increase that. So what my argument really was to give management authority to the department and take it out of the hands of the legislature. And we came very close we came with a couple votes and we did so I think alone. I think that's right I think that's where the authority in the management problems rushed right yeah. But. Don't forget we made a commitment to these people that went to referendum 10 years ago. That they would wish they would never happen when we go to increase to Kilmore most and so forth.

You know it's a big big treasure that we have here and as you well know and we're in the business of protecting and we certainly don't want to destroy it. But there are legitimate steward ship reasons why we want to have the authority in some years to take more moves than we're taking. No. And that isn't because we're again because we're callous or insensitive or we don't care about most I mean we we're the with the guys who are interested in protecting us. But a well-managed Musante is always difficult to articulate to people is important for the for the overall health of the most popular. Oh that's kind of his line through and I just think that we ought to have more management authority and that is not necessarily to increase the harvest to double or triple or whatever. But. Right now we're limited to a thousand. And frankly I don't know why the legislature wants to be continually making this decision I think I would think that they'd be better off frankly if if we were making those decisions the legislature decided

after the referendum that we would hunt moves. Now the question of where we hunt them when we hunt them and how many we take should be left up to the professionals. But you will agree the non hunter. The people who the photographer the nature of the hiker and so forth does have a share of this resource Absolutely absolutely. Well I had an interesting deer season just past. An American gradually due in the department for this a funny geezer that we had the credit for that goes to the hunters at No. Well that's true they did an outstanding job this year save the season we've ever had. Very proud of it. We are disappointed in the killed. Well it's a little lower than what we projected cause we issued ten thousand a few would Oprah moments we were looking for a lower kill because last winter was in many parts the state was pretty rough on the deer herd so we were trying that to slow the kill them. So we're not surprised that it was less than last year. It's a little lower than our projections I think Jerry probably on your show

talked about 27000 when the final figures are in I don't think you'll quite make that but we expected it to be down. We had hoped of course of the back it would come down as well and that did. The deer kill I think. Probably as a result of a number of factors a few would open minutes and very frankly the weather wasn't all that good if you if all you had to hunt was Saturdays and veterans day you took a beating. Veterans Day typically as it is a day for a lot and you know at an early Thanksgiving when I talk to any number of hunters who had an early take that week that Thanksgiving. Came the following Tuesday because that week was usually the week that they went to camp for the week and they wanted to be back home with their hands so they elected not to hunt this year. And so that played a part in it too. You know not play here with the heavy snows and they had then we had comparatively mild weather down here a couple of days the golf courses were actually busy and was right the middle of the day and so.

Just going into the last week of the season. In fact of late. The next to last week. Up there ESCUELA. It was over 40 inches of snow in the winds so that. You know there's about a quarter of the state where the hunters were severely restricted because of the snow. Build. What's ahead in the next few years. What do you hope to accomplish. Well. The primary goal this winter is going to be to develop a real structured productive landowner relations program. As you and I have talked before probably the future of funding is. Is not in doubt now but what direction it goes in I think is in doubt. For a variety of reasons. But here in Maine I think the most important we can work we can do over the next year or so is just to firmly address. The issue of where we're going to be hunted. And it's pretty clear we're going to be hunting on private land in the future but how

are we going to encourage people who've already posted their land to open it up for public use and how we're going to destroy discourage the further posting of land and they're going to come down to the hundreds like you and I. Dealing directly with the landowners the small landowners the farmers as well as the is the corporate land owner has to come up. With a program that will keep those lands open so you and I will have a place to hunt. And my kids will have a place to hunt in the future so that's going to be the primary focus over the next few months in addition to. Dealing with what most everyone recognizes as some pretty difficult economic times and and and budget constraints that will be operating under. So this winter I think is going to be going to be a tough one and you will get your money's worth out of lot of us down in Augusta I'm sure. Bill how are you going to approach this. Very neighborhood meetings or town meeting was a group the landowner provides. Well we've already been through that part of the process. We've gone through the assessment phase where we have involved farmers

and. Other landowners and determine why they post their land what drove them to it to begin with and what it would take to get them to open their lands up again. And we've involved people from all sorts of user groups in this process not just hunters but snowmobiles cross country skiers birdwatchers everyone who enjoys the use of of a privately owned land. And we've identified some key areas there that. I think. Are going to help guide us in what direction we go to. We've got to do it because like I've told you before that the real question the future isn't going to be other enough. The question is going to be is there a place to go. And that's what we've got to deal with. Bill saw the nice having you in the short who is now regularly once a year and that's kind of nice to have you report to our viewers out there exactly your feelings and all the Fish and Game Department operates in the state of me. By all odds it's one of the most successful departments that we have anywhere that measures up well. When you contrast it to other

states in America. But this night I'm glad love it wishing you a good evening. Oh oh the old car load. You told the new car you are all over our was like. Oh oh oh oh oh the in the oh oh oh oh you know. Oh oh oh oh. This programme was made possible by the support of viewers like you. Thank

you.