thumbnail of City in Sound; Chicago PD Crime Lab
Transcript
Hide -
This transcript was received from a third party and/or generated by a computer. Its accuracy has not been verified. If this transcript has significant errors that should be corrected, let us know, so we can add it to FIX IT+.
Good evening. I'm Jim Herbert, ready to make a front -line report on the war against crime in the city in sound. In a big city, the war against crime goes on 24 hours a day. A part of it is fought by uniform policemen, on foot and squad cars, on motorcycles, meeting the criminal element wherever it appears in every section of the city. Even more important, perhaps, the responsibility of the detective division, the playing closed force in this continuing battle. Although the men in civilian clothes often meet the criminal forces head on, risk their lives and gunvites that end in death, the basic importance of their work is involved in the relentless tracking of the creatures of the underworld, searching them out, destroying their anonymity, bringing them to justice. Part of their effort, playing, plotting, footwork. Checking out leads, chasing down tips. Another part, the scientific evaluation of physical evidence, the work of the scientific crime detection laboratory of the Chicago Police Department, the crime lab.
It's a fascinating story, and no one tells it better than the men who make it possible. Your lieutenant John Asher, a lieutenant of police, you're also director of the scientific crime detection laboratory of the city of Chicago, right? That's right, Jim. And lieutenant, this is one of the outstanding police crime detection laboratories in the country. I don't know what you'll say, but I'll say it. And I'd like to get a little background on how the lab got started here. Well, Jim, it's one of the big labs, and I hope that it's one of the best I feel that it is. In 1928, 29 rather, the, yeah, that after the Valentine Day's massacre, some of our public private -spirited citizens here in Chicago decided to perhaps science could help us in our, in the fight against crime. They were much upset about that, the death of those nine men. As a result of that Northwestern University, in cooperation with these public -spirited citizens, developed a laboratory over in Ohio Street, and they
employed, or they went out, and they got the best men that they could find in the field, men like Calvin Goddard, Dr. Mealberger, Fred Inbaugh, Charlie Wilson, who is now head of the Wisconsin Laboratory, Alinhard Keeler. And these men put together what I believe to be the first laboratory that was solely devoted to the problems of crime, criminology. In 1938, the university decided that it, it's endeavors weren't supposed to be just exactly crime works, so they sold the laboratory to the city of Chicago. In 1947, it was completely taken over by the Chicago Police Department under the heading of Capitol Conner and Al Commissioner of Police, Timothy J. O 'Connor. And at that time, all of the employees in the laboratory were policemen. They were taken from the ranks, men with special skills and background. At the present time, we have 50 employees, all our policemen,
all of them have special skills and knowledge, and our three -quarters of them are college graduates. What's the sort of work that goes on here, Brody speaking? Our, broadly speaking, our problem is the hamming and the evaluating of physical evidence founded crime scenes that about discurses our primary work. As opposed to the best way to find out, I would just be to go around the crime lab, see these men in action and see the work at first hand. Make it much easier that way, Jim, and I think we could explain a little more clearly. Boy, that was loud. What were you doing? I'm firing a test shot from a weapon that's been submitted by the police department. Your name is what? Cast Simons, S -I -M -O -N -S. You've been up here in the gun department for quite a long time at the crime lab. Since 1946. Are you going to fire another shot?
Yes, I am. Why do you always fire two when you test fire these things? We always fire two test shots, and these two test shots are then placed under a comparison microscope, and the fine marks and striations are studied to see how they were produced from one bullet to the other, and then one test shot is removed from under the microscope, and the evidence bullet is then compared with this test shot. I better describe this thing you fired into, this silver colored box here is filled with, looks like, as best as boards, I mean, that sort of thing. Well, this box primarily used to detonate the sound of the shot so it don't disturb the other personnel in the laboratory, and when all the loading weapons are fired, why it traps the cartridge case, and then the cartridge case is recovered here from this drawer at the bottom of the box, and you fire it through into what's that over there? That's
known as a bullet recovery box. It is filled with cotton and waste material, and the tester then recovered from this waste material. Well, go ahead and fire that second shot, then we can recover those blocks and see what they look like. I was just looking at the recovery box over here, Cas, that makes quite a bit of impact when it hits into there, doesn't it? It does, but if you'll notice now, recover these bullets, and you'll see that they've wrapped themselves up into this cotton like a little cuckoon, and it slows the bullet down. It's surprising what little penetration you'll have in this box, in other words, you can stop quite a powerful cartridge here. It's hot. It is warm, yes. You see how this is going? They went in there about a foot and a half, didn't they, into that? That's right, mm -hmm. A pile
of cotton. Now these go out and go under the microscope. Yes, these are marked for identification, and they'll be put into a little pill boxes, and if you'll notice now this weapon was rifled with six lands and grooves left hand twist. Yeah, I wouldn't recognize that. That comes from explaining something. Yeah, you can see if you can count these grooves here, they're inclined to the left. Now they will be compared with any evidence that's in that category, in other words, if we have an evidence bullet that has those class characteristics while we'll try to make the comparison. Bring all those evidence bullets out, comparing them against this one. Yes. Narrowed down by the easily visible marks, then go down to the microscope, I suppose. That's right. Cass, I suppose that because of your work here in the gun department at the crime lab, some really big crimes have been broken in the past. Oh, yes. We've had our share of them, yes. It's probably the sign in the door here says
microanalysis. Are you in charge of the office here? Yes, I am. What's your name? Sergeant Claude B. Hayeson. Sergeant Hayeson, what is involved in microanalysis? Well, the term on the door is somewhat misleading. It's forensic microanalysis, which has to do with evidence in cases that may go to court as opposed to some commercial affair where they simply make analysis to determine the purity of something. What sort of things do you do in here? Well, we examine hairs and fibers compared glass and automobile paints and house paints. We examine clothing for bullet wounds and potter patterns. We also make comparisons of dust and soil and all miscellaneous debris, which need optical aid in order to make comparison or analyze. What would be an important use of the microscope, the stereo microscope, and routine police
work, something that goes on all the time? Well, for instance, in cases of burglary where there are much safe damage done, the safe insulation is brought to us by the mobile unit. We compare this safe insulation with open cases, which we have on file. Now, the first test is to visually observe it under this binocular stereo microscope. I understand that your office in here is very important in hit and run cases, too. It is, to the extent that hit and run victims clothing are brought to us and we search it for paint fragments, automobile paint fragments. If we find this automobile paint, we compare it with known standards, which we have on file for the automobile manufacturer, right here in this cabinet, which makes the specimen very available to us to compare and look at under a microscope. Sergeant,
this looks like a back seat of an automobile. It is submitted to us in a particular case, yes. That looks like blood stains on the back there, is it? Well, we have done a microscopic examination of this seat in that area that you point out there as being a reddish brown color that is, in our opinion, blood. Now, the important thing here, of course, is to satisfy the investigative officers whether or not this is of human origin or not. So now, what we will do is to make a cut out a portion of this and in that sense make an extraction and this extraction will give to the chemistry section and there they will determine whether or not this is blood positively and if so, if it is of human origin. Salotana Dragou, I know you are in charge of the chemistry department here, but first of all, I would like to ask a question. I was talking with Sergeant Hazen about a blood sample on a seat cover that he
had over there. He said it would come here to the chemistry division and you would then make the test that would determine whether it actually was blood and whether or not it was of human origin. Yes, sir. That is my duty here. How do you do that? I run a series of tests. First, it is well to run a test for blood generally and I run two or three different tests and I must establish that the blood was human in origin and then there is a third test that I conduct on many blood exhibits and that is to type the blood stain. Because the type of blood might be instrumental and determine the origin of the blood? It might be indicative, yes, sir. From an individual. I suppose you do a lot of other things in relation to chemistry and crime besides check blood samples. We have many thousands of exhibits coming through here throughout the course of a year, very, very many narcotics, heroin exhibits, marijuana exhibits,
cocaine exhibits, dollopene and demoral exhibits. What do you do with them? We run a series of tests, both qualitative and quantitative and write reports with reference to the exhibits and then appear in court and give testimony. Well, the talent that kind of work you do here in the chemistry division is pretty exacting and you don't learn this type of work in normal police activity, pounding a beat or even sitting behind a desk in a police district. Are you a college graduate? Yes, sir. I received my degree in chemistry at the University of Illinois in 1932. Of course, that was kind of a leading question on my part because I, as a great many other people, are very familiar with your name and I know there's more behind you than just a degree in chemistry. Well, I have continued further with my education. I acquired a law degree at the Paul University and also a member of the Illinois Bar. And you've done quite a bit of writing in this field, too, haven't you? I have written several articles on the chemical test for intoxication,
various aspects, technical and legal of narcotics. Some of them may be found in the various police digests in the Illinois Bar Journal and also in the Chicago Medical School Quarterly. Do you feel that there is a lot of satisfaction for you personally in the work that you do here? There certainly is. I will say that I am not particularly concerned with running a big record of arrests and convictions. I am somewhat concerned with helping the poor innocent individual get out of a jam the times. Actually, I suppose that this is true all through the crime lab. Everybody here is just as interested in protecting the innocent as they are in putting the guilty behind bars. I would say so, yes. You walk through any door here at the Police Crime Lab and you find something of interest. This one is marked Document Examination. Hi. Afternoon. I'm Jim Herbert from the City and Sound Year. Lieutenant
David Perthell. Are you the boss here in Document Examination? Yes, I am the examiner of question documents in the crime laboratory. When you speak of question documents, Lieutenant, what does that mean? Well, it takes in anything to do with what is on paper or paper itself in a criminal matter. I usually break the work down into five main categories. First is the identification of handwriting and hand printing. You might be able to find that on anonymous letters such as obscene, sex letters, threatening letters, extortion notes, and similar documents. What's this one you're holding here? This one here is one that came in this morning. It was a threatening letter that was left at a theater and it's saying that the theater is going to be blowing up. So, as the appearance of being a young
person's writing, it certainly does, even to my untutored eye. But this is an easy one, I suppose. Yes, compared to some of them, it comes in here. They get quite hard and takes quite a bit of work to make an examination. It's not like most people believe you look at one signature and compare it against another. Most of the time, we need quite a bit of writing to this suspect before we can identify them. I see a bunch of work over here on a table in front of me, Lieutenant. These involve checks. Yes, these are fraudulent checks. We receive all the August checks which comes into the police department's hands. We receive between 20 and 25 bad checks a day. Now run anywhere from maybe $5 up to $5 or $6 ,000. What do you do with them? The same treatment? Well, we'll catalog the checks and also compare the writing, appearing upon the checks
against a file we have here of writings of no -one check passers. And whenever a person is apprehended, the police will obtain handwriting from the person and submit it to the laboratory and will use that for future references. Over here, I see some old books. Is this a criminal matter you're working on over here? No, it is not. Now, this is a little project we have here for DePaul University. It's two very old books which they have in their library. One of them is the first printing of the works of Shakespeare. These books were brought in by Father Burr from the University and there's some obliterated writings of former owners of the books and the university would like to find out who might have owned these books in the many years that they've been in existence. How will you go about bringing out that obliterated writing? Well,
we examined it visually and then under a microscope and under ultraviolet light and photographic filters. We photographed it with ultraviolet light and infrared film. And we have deciphered two of the three names which appeared in the book. But actually, the procedures that you're using in the case of these rare books would be the same procedure that you might use in the criminal case. Right. In the crime lab, there are a lot of names I can't pronounce. For instance, comparative micrography, is that about right? It's just a comparative micrography section or a tool mark identification unit. Tool mark identification, that's the issue. What do you do? Here we identify all burglar tools used in crimes or burglaries. We do that by cutting tests on lead or other suitable media and identifying that with markings found at the scene. And to prove that a certain
tool was used to commit a particular crime. Your name is Emmett Flynn. Yes. Emmett, I want to ask you about these tools that I saw over here. These are actually tools that were brought in from a crime scene. These are tools that were brought in from a burglaries scene by our mobile unit. And these tools would be compared against our open case on file at the laboratory. In other words, the markings of these tools will be compared against markings of tools used in other crimes. You're going to see if they tie in with other crimes. And we can identify tools in the same method that you identify two bullets as being fired from the same gun as infirum's identification. By examining the markings under our comparative micrography. Comparison micrography. This is quite a feel for you, isn't it? You've done quite a bit of work in this area. Yes, I have. You've written books on it? I have written a few articles on it and they've been published in different journals. It wasn't published this last January in Journal of Forensic Sciences on tool mark and identification. When you get this kind of identification of the markings on the tool, it's pretty hard to confound that evidence in court, isn't it?
Well, it has to be backed up by photographs, but it's a very good evidence and it has been presented in court and convictions have been obtained with it. The most notable case was the limber case. And Bruno Richard Hoffman was convicted and executed in that case. The marks of the tools that were used to cut the lumber. That was used to cut on a planer. That was used to plane wood that was used to make the ladder that he used to get into the child's room to prevent a kidnapping. Almost all of the work that's done in the crime laboratory ends up as evidence in court. Some of it is prepared here. Helmer McAvoy is working on a big drawing. What's McAvoy? What is this drawing of? This is the newly acquired section of Lincoln Park North from Fort Sverev New South for about 900 feet. It's a reference to the Margaret Gallagher murder case. The purpose, of course, is
to bring the scene of the crime to the jury in order they can see the condition that existed at that time. What you're doing on this large -scale drawing is putting in the important points. The most important points, principally, the exact location where the crime was committed and how they got into the bushes and how the defendant came through a passageway to the victim who was sitting, setting herself. You've worked on this sort of thing for a long time. About 25 years. Imagine you were a pretty close coordination with the mobile unit. Yes, I'm a member of the mobile unit myself. Of course, we make these type diagrams and all crimes of serious nature, homicide and rape and some fire and explosion where it's necessary to give a more definite explanation to a jury. Then you actually go out in the
mobile equipment? Oh, yes, we go right to the scene of the crime. They told me I'd find the crime lab mobile unit down here in the police garage. Yes, sir, this is it. This is it, sit down here. This is the mobile unit car. I thought they had station wagons. We had station wagons up to a few years ago, but it was discontinued. Well, you fellows, I'm the mobile unit. We are on the mobile unit, yes, sir. What's your name? Officer Lewis Vitulo. And what's your partner's name? Officer Joseph D. Lopez. I see you're loading up, I could tell by looking at this as mobile unit equipment. What are the things you carry? Well, in our daily investigations of crime scenes, we carry four by five speed graphic camera, a medical legal codec 828 camera, ultraviolet light, plaster of Paris equipment, fingerprint cards, and fingerprint equipment, a foam or fixed focus fingerprint camera, and our own personal kits containing powders and brushes. Each one of you has a kit of your own that you carry into the car. Each one has their own kit. You're getting ready to leave here now? We're getting ready to leave
here now. Where are you going to go? We're going on the north side to a scene of a burglary. When you're going to the scene of a crime, what do you do? What do you look for? Well, our first approach to the scene of a crime is to, if it's a burglary, is to find the means of entry to dust for latent prints, to accumulate all physical evidence we possibly can, tool marks, residue left, for example, in the burning of a safe, insulation from a safe, footprints, tire prints, and any other evidence we think will be an aid to the investigating officers to conduct the investigation of the case. Now, you take these fingerprint cameras right inside, we'll actually photograph the fingerprints on the door or wherever they might be. On whatever surface they might be, we photograph them and they are taken back to the lab and developed. Well, I know you fellas are going to hurry to get out to that burglary scene, I don't want to hold you up. Thanks very much. You're welcome. See you later.
And that's the story of the scientific crime detection laboratory, the G2 section, the battle against the criminal element of the metropolis. And that's the city and sound, engineered by George Wilson, Jim Herbert reporting.
Series
City in Sound
Episode
Chicago PD Crime Lab
Producing Organization
WMAQ (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.)
Illinois Institute of Technology
Contributing Organization
Illinois Institute of Technology (Chicago, Illinois)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip-2384a97ce1f
If you have more information about this item than what is given here, or if you have concerns about this record, we want to know! Contact us, indicating the AAPB ID (cpb-aacip-2384a97ce1f).
Description
Series Description
City in Sound was a continuation of Ear on Chicago, broadcast on WMAQ radio (at the time an NBC affiliate). City in Sound ran for 53 episodes between March 1958 and March 1959, and was similar to its predecessor program in focus and style. The series was produced by Illinois Institute of Technology radio-television staff, including Donald P. Anderson, and narrated by Chicago radio and television newscaster, Jack Angell.
Asset type
Episode
Genres
Documentary
Topics
Education
Media type
Sound
Duration
00:23:31.032
Embed Code
Copy and paste this HTML to include AAPB content on your blog or webpage.
Credits
Producing Organization: WMAQ (Radio station : Chicago, Ill.)
Producing Organization: Illinois Institute of Technology
AAPB Contributor Holdings
Illinois Institute of Technology
Identifier: cpb-aacip-5119c31db2f (Filename)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
If you have a copy of this asset and would like us to add it to our catalog, please contact us.
Citations
Chicago: “City in Sound; Chicago PD Crime Lab,” Illinois Institute of Technology, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed April 4, 2025, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-2384a97ce1f.
MLA: “City in Sound; Chicago PD Crime Lab.” Illinois Institute of Technology, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. April 4, 2025. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-2384a97ce1f>.
APA: City in Sound; Chicago PD Crime Lab. Boston, MA: Illinois Institute of Technology, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-2384a97ce1f