Spectrum Hawaii; Shave Ice; Ginger Lei; John Charlot

The following program is a production of KHET in Honolulu, Hawaii Public Television. The following program was funded in part by the Hawaii State Foundation on Culture and the Arts. [March music] [Announcer] Today on Spectrum, you'll find a supreme treat, a legend in the rainforest, and a scholar of Polynesia. The James McCuen Dancers perform a duet in Wailua Falls Park. Surrounded by a compelling fragrance, a young man searches the spirit of the ginger blossom. Theologian

John Charlot reflects on ancient Hawaiian religion as he surveys the Polynesian spirit. But first we'll taste the many tantalizing flavors of shave ice when you join three errant spirits on their quest for the cone supreme. Tom, Andy, and [?Joette?] search through town and traverse the cane fields of Haleiwa to find the right bite of shave ice. Remember that first bite? How good it was? How cold it felt melting in your mouth? That first cool, sweet mouthful of shave ice? Mmm. Shave ice is so much a part of growing up in Hawaii. One of the memories of small kid times. A reward for having been good. That cool treat so welcome on hot days.

The hoped-for prize after school or on the way home after a day at the beach. A celebration. [Tom] Hello, may I speak to the executive director, please. Yeah, Tom [?Pierce?] calling. Hello, [?Joette?]? Great. How you doing? Hey, is Andy with you? Super. What you guys doing? Working on a big deal of yours, huh? Hey, you know, I just closed a big deal also and I want to celebrate today. What do you say? No, no, no champagne. Shave ice, girl. Shave ice. For real. Okay, I'll pick you up in about 10 minutes, alright? See you later. [Host] I think many of us remember eating our first shave ice much more than tasting other delights like ice cream. Ingredients were not expensive and were readily available. Ice, syrup, a bench to sit on.

[Tom] Okay, you guys are really in for a super, super treat. This is my favorite place. The guy makes his own ice and his shave ice is so, so fine. [Joette] Tom, you come here all the time? [Tom] Oh, yeah. Every Saturday, I come down here after playing tennis, and that's why I know it's the best. I mean, I've tried all other places, but this place, like I said, is so fine. It'll melt in your mouth. I guarantee it. [Joette] Okay. [Tom] Money back guarantee. Okay, you try the pineapple. Okay, I tell you. The best shave ice in town. The best. [Joette] You try pineapple before? [Tom] No. [Andy] That's pretty good! [Tom] Mmm. [Andy] Isn't that good? Let's sit down here. [Tom] Mmm, mmm. [Tom] Okay, okay. That's a good idea. [Andy] Well, Tom. Congratulations. [Joette] Yeah, congratulations, Tom. [Tom] Thank you, thank you. [Andy] Thanks for calling us. [Tom] You're welcome. How do you like this? [Joette] Not too bad. [Tom] Smooth, huh? [Joette] Smooth, but,

you know, real shave ice has crunch. [Tom] Crunch? [Joette] Yeah. Let me tell you guys. Why don't you come with me and I'll take you over to my favorite place? Okay? [Tom] Alright. [Andy] If you get to go to her place, you gotta go to my place too. [Tom] Okay, we'll go to her place, then we'll go to your place. [Joette] Okay! [Tom] Shall we go? [Host] The first cast-iron shave ice machines were cranked by hand. These were later powered by electricity, some operating with a foot pedal, others with hand switches. [Joette] Hey, Betsy. I brought in my two friends. They don't believe you carry the best shave ice on the island. [crosstalk] [Betsy] Oh, of course. [Joette] Tell me how old this machine is? [Betsy] I understand this machine is about 1940 or 1941 model. It's a pre-war. And I've used it now for about 17 years. [Tom] Same store too? [Betsy] Yes, in the same location we are. It was a old wooden building. Building has change but machine is same machine. [Tom] Same machine? Oh, okay. [Betsy] Yes, and I've had this store now

for 32 years. And I've making shave ice since that time. [Joette] And she makes, she makes her own flavors, you know. [Tom] "Terrif", "terrif"! [Joette] So what are you featuring this week, Betsy? Any new flavors? [Betsy] Well, we have bubble gum. [Crosstalk] You know how the the saying goes, you don't try it, you don't know. [Tom] Okay, okay, okay. So what do you guys want? [Tom] Bubble gum. [Joette] I'll try watermelon. [Betsy] All right. [ice machine grinds, discussion in background] [Joette] Try this. How about that, huh? [Andy] Not bad.

[Joette] So what do you think? [Andy] I think it's good but my place is best. Let's go to my place. [Joette and Tom] Okay. [Upbeat fantasia] [Music] [Andy] ...shave ice. What flavors are you guys going to get. I'm getting pink? [Joette] Pink? [Joette] This is a decorator's delight. Look at this, dark orange, light orange. [Tom] Too many flavors! [Andy] It's coconut. [Joette] No! Coconut is not pink! [crosstalk]

[Andy] Coconut is p-i-n-k, pink. Pink and brown. [laughs] [Joette] You know what's going to happen when you mix those. [Tom] You're not supposed to mix root beer with any flavor! [Joette] Yeah, you know, the best kind of shave ice is going to be virgin shaved ice. Nothing inside except shave ice and strawberry. You know, the red flavor. Okay, let's decide now what size and... [Tom] Yeah. [Joette] On, Tom, look how expensive. Andy? [Tom] At [inaudible], it was only nickel, 15 cents, 75 cents. That's okay. I will splurge. I'll treat you guys, I'll treat you guys. [Andy] I'm gonna have the deluxe, the large. Ice cream and black beans. [Tom] I want to try this one, look the rainbow. [crosstalk] The red. I don't know what that one, pink. And then lemon, yellow. Let's try that one. [Andy] Blue, blue, lemon's blue. [Joette] Okay, Tom, I'm just going to give you a break. [Joette] Can I just have the largest plain strawberry? Largest plain strawberry. That's my favorite, yeah. [Tom] Okay, okay. Where the girl, where the girl? We gon' order.

[Andy] Where do we order from? [Tom] It's right over here, I think. Let me do it. [Child talks] [Employee] Can I help you? [Tom] I'd like green and coconut. [Joette] And I'm just going to just have plain strawberry. [Andy] I'll have the pink, brown, and blue, please. [Joette] I want a small. [Tom] I'd like the large. [Employee] And you want ice cream on these? [Joette] I just want mine plain. [Tom] Ice cream for me, please. [Tom] You know, this guy was telling me that this machine over here is 25 years old. Notice the difference between the old, hand-cranked jobbers versus the new ones over there where it's all electric and everything? I like the sound of the old machines, you know, tinkling sound and everything. Cast iron. A lot slower than the other ones. Where's the other guy go? [Employee] This is the one with the beans.

[Tom] That's green and coconut. [sings] [Joette] Yeah, but look what happened. [crosstalk] [Tom] Thank you! [Andy] Where's mine? [Employee] Okay, the ice cream and beans? [Andy] Now, I'd like to have pink, brown, and blue, please. [Employee] Coconut, pineapple, root beer. [Joette] Oh, that is coconut, yeah? [Tom] So, the green is coconut? [Joette] No, pink. [Tom] Ooh, look at that one. [Andy] Now, doesn't that look good. [Joette] This stuff is good. [Tom] Try this one, Jo. [Joette] You're sure it's good, huh? [Andy] Ono, ono. Try this one.

[Joette] Not bad. [Andy] This is better. [Joette] Okay, you remember how you'd get red tongue and we'd make fun of you? [Tom] Yeah, I remember, yeah. [Host] Can you remember that first bite? How it tasted? Cold and sweet? Green? Lime. Yellow? Lemon. Brown? Root beer. Nowadays, there are so many new flavors to choose from that it is often hard to reach a decision. So that what you often end up with is rainbow. [Classical music] Coming up on Spectrum is Polynesian scholar John Charlot.

Now, Suzanne [Oziesta-Turin?] and James [Awai?] meet deep in the rain forest of Waimea Falls. Olomana provides the music with a song entitled Ku'u Lei Awapuhi. as James and Suzanne dance the Legend of Ginger Lei. [Hawaiian music] [Hawaiian music] [Vocals in Hawaiian begins]

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[Hawaiian music] [Host] Hawaii Public Television's Nino J. Martin visits with the son of famed muralist John Charlot. Dr. John Charlot will discuss his new book entitled "Chanting the Universe" and point out the diverse and enduring roots of Hawaii's religious culture. [Martin] John, it's nice to have you here with us on Spectrum. Thank you for coming out here today. [Charlot] Thank you. [Martin] You have been a resident of the Hawaiian Islands for quite some time, but before that you were in Munich. You graduated as a PhD? [Charlot] Yes, well, we came here in 1949, of all things, when I was 8 years old, and I've been kicking around ever since to the mainland and back here for school. [Martin] Your mom and your dad and...

[Charlot] My brother Martin, brother Peter, and sister Ann. [Martin] And now you left the Hawaiian Islands, lost to us certainly, and you've gone up to Brandon University up in Manitoba, Canada. Why did you leave here? [Carhlot] Well, I couldn't find a job here in Hawaii, and they offered me a job there. I'd been working at the university. We developed a whole series of courses on Hawaiian religion, but they wouldn't support it with a position. Now even those courses have been cut, I understand. [Martin] The thing that's interesting though is we still haven't lost touch with you. You're still here in spirit, and also through a new book that you've just written called "Chanting the Universe". And why did you select the title "Chanting the Universe"? [Charlot] My original title was "Hawaiian Religious Culture", which for me says a lot about Hawaiian culture, that it's culture and it's religion, and that the two are absolutely permeating each other. But chant is so important in Hawaii, and I wrote much of the book from poetry, reading poetry, and

finding out what it said about Hawaiian culture. And the concern of poetry is really basically the universe. They talk about flowers. They talk about lovemaking. They talk about people. But behind all of those things, you always have that context, the context of the whole universe. So "Chanting the Universe" put those two ends together for me. [Martin] What was your purpose, your reason for writing this book? [Charlot] Well, I'd just started studying Hawaiian culture. It took me a long time to get around to it. I must say, we came in '48, and, as you know, my father, '49, and my father immediately got into Hawaiian culture, and he wanted to get me into it. But I really had to recover my own roots. So I had to go back to Greece and Rome and the ancient Israelites and work my way up. [Martin] You actually lived in Europe. [Charlot] Yes, mmm-hmm. Going back to France, for instance, was very important for me. I'm very French and going back there, living in France kind of got me in touch with myself, and it was only after I'd

learned about my own culture that I was able to get into Hawaiian culture. [Martin] Would you consider it a scholarly work? [Charlot] Well, it's hopefully written for a popular audience. But I think I have more scholarly background in the book than is usual in such a work. I think the main thing is that I work from Hawaiian sources. I've read by now a good deal of Hawaiian literature, and I felt that that expressed for me what Hawaiian culture was all about. So I do my own translations in the book. [Martin] One thing in your book that you mentioned and that is the Hawaiian saying "Look to the Source." [Charlot] Well, it's a very famous Hawaiian saying, and Hawaiians feel that it says a lot about their way of thinking. And we have that also in Western culture. Our word "principle" comes from the Latin word which means "the beginning of things". And the idea is that if you know how something began, you understand how it operates, you understand its character.

So Hawaiians ask that question a lot when they're trying to understand something, and they can ask it about little things. What is the origin of this stone? What is this origin of this person's personality? Or they can ask about the whole universe. [Martin] You're really talking about the essence of something, aren't you? [Charlot] I'm trying to find out how Hawaiian thinking works. In other words, not this fact, not that fact, but what is the whole cultural process behind Hawaiian culture. What's going on in their heads and their feelings as they do this or that particular action. [Martin] Doesn't this also relate to the purpose of something, the origination of something for a given purpose? How do the Hawaiians look at that? [Charlot] Well, they use the concept of a search. Of course, things can have a purpose. You make an adze to cut a canoe. You make a net to catch fish. But, again, they see this all in a much deeper context than just a particular

purpose. They see this as a great search where people are trying to understand this world that they're living in, trying to understand themselves. So everything they do turns into a kind of meditative effort, that meditative sinking into and appreciating the action that they're performing. [Martin] How about the relationship between the Hawaiians and their land, where they live, their soil? How do they relate to that? [Charlot] Well, they have a very strong attachment to the land, of course. They call themselves "children of the land," and they mean this very literally because in the Kumulipo you have the mating of the sky and earth and everything comes out of that mating. So they have a strong, what we could call an evolutionary, view. We don't think of ourselves as so much on a family tree as Hawaiians did, but they saw themselves as literally related to animals, plants, different lands, create different personalities.

So if you ask somebody who his family is, if you ask him what land he comes from, that gives you two fixes for understanding one person. [Martin] And, of course, it's a very small society, where it would be a lot easier to do that in a small society than say a larger one. In the book, you mention the difference between two Polynesian cultures, the Samoans and the Hawaiians, all originating from one culture. But yet, the evolution of these two cultures within the Polynesian culture are diverse. [Charlot] Yes. [Martin] Why are they different? They've been both originated from one place, the South Pacific. Why are they different? [Charlot] Polynesians are very creative people, and they're in continual movement creatively. And so it's natural when people are isolated over centuries and centuries that they may be moving in different directions. I admire both cultures very much, but Samoan culture is very people oriented, very society oriented. The important thing is your relations in the community. Hawaiians were always a small population and a very big land, and so

the context that they thought of themselves in was much more nature as a whole. [Martin] Do you feel that the Samoan culture has been able to maintain itself more intact over the centuries in contrast to the Hawaiian culture? [Charlot] Well, in many ways they have. They've kept their political system fairly intact, and many of their customs and things. Of course, they didn't have the big influence of non-Samoans that Hawaiians had here, non-Hawaiians coming in. Hawaiians were on the trade route, so they bore the brunt of the foreign pressure on Polynesia. But I think also the Samoans were marvelous politicians and are, and in many ways were able to dichotomize the different sections of their lives in ways that Hawaiians didn't like. For Samoans, there's a strong contrast between the outside that they show and the inside feelings. Hawaiians had much more of the sense that the outside should show what the inside is feeling, and so that made

them somewhat more vulnerable. It cut off certain avenues of protection for them that Samoans could allow themselves. But I'm always amazed at how much of Hawaiian culture has survived. And when I started religion classes at the university, people said, "Well, why are you studying Hawaiian religion? There's none left." And then, of course, there was a good deal, and with the Kaho'olawe movement a good deal of that suddenly came to the surface. I think the Kaho'olawe movement has brought a lot of things into the public that were hidden before, and, of course, that makes me very happy. [Martin] Do you think there is a renaissance in going back to the original philosophical principles of the Hawaiian culture as it was centuries ago? [Charlot] In a way, those principles have never died out. Hawaiian families have kept them alive. The difficulty was recognizing them, understanding them, and appreciating them because in many ways they were different from haole ways. So the Hawaiian renaissance has told people there is value in these ideas, and I hope that my book will, if you

want, establish a kind of continuity between many of the things Hawaiians know now in practice, just from their upbringing and their souls, and what went on before, so they know they're living in a real cultural continuity of the past. [Martin] John, do you feel that because of the culture, the Hawaiian culture, and because of the easygoing fluidity of that culture, that even though they're maintaining it now, but in lots of ways, accepting as they have been, it's kind of part of their undoing? Do you feel this at all? [Charlot] Well, I have a little bit of a different perception. I don't find Hawaiians very easygoing at all. I've yet to meet an easygoing Hawaiian. I find them, if anything, a little on the tense side. That may be just the way they react to me! [laughs] But they had a tremendous sensitivity. They have a tremendous sensitivity. They feel things with a

force that we in our culture have lost. [Martin] How do you feel as a Westerner, trained as a Westerner -- can a Westerner really ever understand the Hawaiian? [Charlot] Not the way a Hawaiian would. In my book, I'm always careful to preserve that difference between me, my way of looking at things, and a Hawaiian and the way he'd look at them. [Martin] You had an interesting anecdote from the book some student of yours told you. [Charlot] Oh, yes. Well, it's not in the book, but it was afterwards, a very good student of mine. And she said, "I couldn't understand the highest things because, of course, I wasn't Hawaiian, and I couldn't understand the basic things like flowers and plants because I hadn't been raised for one, but I was pretty good at the middle stuff." And I think that's a pretty good perception of my understanding of Hawaiian culture. [Martin] Our guest today has been Dr. John Charlot, author of "Chanting the Universe". John, thank you very much for being with us. [Charlot] Thank you, Nino. Good to see you again. [Hawaiian music with guitar and vocals]

[Hawaiian music] Spectrum was funded in part by the Hawaii State Foundation

on Culture and the Arts. [pause] The following program is a production of KHET in Honolulu, Hawaii

Public Television. The following program was funded in part by the Hawaii State Foundation on Culture and the Arts. [Ukulele music] [Ukulele music] [Ukulele music] [Host] Today on Spectrum, we'll examine the uniquely Hawaiian architecture. We'll meet with a renowned fiber artist. And witness a Buddhist monk in his rock garden. There are many challenges facing a fiber artist today. Ruthadell Anderson will tell us how she solves the many design questions inherent in her art. The peaceful

atmosphere of a rock garden must be planned and maintained by daily practice. We'll learn how this task becomes an integral part of Zen Buddhism. But first, Spectrum discovers single wall houses and the source of their widespread popularity. Some people think Native Hawaiian architecture began and ended with a thatched hut, but that isn't so. We are about to see another example of what the experts call a vernacular architecture: one created and adapted by a people to meet the needs of a particular time, an architecture that is suited to our unique climate and geography. Look around you. Drive through any residential area, and you will see numerous dwellings in the familiar island called plantation style.

Houses enclosed by a single wall of one by six vertical boards with a brace running across the middle and a raised floor covered around the outside with lattice work. Approximately one third of all Hawaii's houses are variations of this basic theme. What is single wall construction, and how is it relevant to the Hawaiian experience? To find out, we must begin at the source, the same source that has done so much to shape Hawaii's development and her people: sugar. Less than a mile from the mill stack at Waipahu stands one of the last of the early plantation home sites. It was here and in the other old sugar towns that single wall housing had its origins. Around the turn of the century, more and more contract laborers began arriving

from the Orient to work the cane. Housing them all soon became a growing problem. What was needed was a structure that could be built cheaply and quickly by making the most efficient use of available building materials. At first, different materials were used indiscriminately. Lumber was scarce and expensive as it had to be shipped from the Pacific Northwest. At the same time, many Japanese newly arrived began building houses for themselves on the plantations. Their carpenters brought with them considerable skill in woodworking and building techniques. Undeterred by lumber scarcity, they simply improvised, making a little bit of wood go a long way. Architect Ray Morris comments on these early houses. [Morris] I have a great admiration for the Japanese carpenter and he of

course was hired by the plantations. And his job was to build houses for the laborers and the plantations, as it's well known, were quite strong on keeping down the cost. They don't like to spend any money. And the houses were designed from this aspect of cost. [Host] By the 1900s, single wall housing began to spread across the Hawaiian landscape. Whole towns sprang up, 'Ewa, Aiea, Kahuku, Waimanalo. Most of the Japanese, Chinese, and Filipino workers chose stay once the terms of their contracts were met. They married, raised families, and lived the rural Hawaiian ways that are now mostly

memories. This house was built in the 1920s, the girt, or horizontal strip of wood so distinctive of a single wall house, has been internalized. Another feature of these early houses was their exposed plumbing, which often formed an elaborate sculpture of pipes and fixtures. This early outdoor plumbing was possible for the same reason that the single wall idea worked so well in Hawaii. A mild year-round climate with no prolonged periods of adverse weather and no freezing pipes in January either. The advantages of single wall construction were not lost to private commercial builders and soon the style was copied and improved upon by local architects and contractors.

Lewis and Cooke was one of the companies that began building single wall houses on a large scale. Ray Morris joined Lewis and Cooke as an architect in 1926. [Morris] Typical T&G house is a board three quarter inch thick and it stands in a wall like this between eight and nine feet tall and you take a long stretch of that, say 12 feet, of the single board house. The joint is a T&G joint. There's a tongue that goes into a groove, that's what they call it, tongue and groove, T&G. And that's the joint between them that runs up, all the way up through the board that is made here. So to make it look good. The T&G wall was built because it was the cheapest thing that could possibly be done. And structurally the support was in the same number as the finish of the inside.

They're easier to handle, the structural pieces of a house require only one man to handle them. Usually the T&G house was built between three and five men working, the whole job took three months. [Host] In the peak years it even took less time. Typically, three carpenters were put to work on one house. From empty lot to finished product took five days. And in those days before unions, the carpenters were also electricians, painters, and plumbers. [Morris] I went around the different offices here. There were about eight architectural offices, there's about 200 now. But of the 8, I got a job in each one and I got 15 jobs the first week I was here and a refusal from Lewis and Cooke. So I went back home and told them

just what I'd done. I said "I will draw up plans for small houses. It looks to me as though we need small houses. We've got plenty of architects to build the expensive ones but what's needed here is a house for the man that can't afford it. And I would like you to help that man out. You want to sell your building materials. So you're vitally interested." And I said "I will draw other plans. You will pay me a salary out of the profit on the lumber and you will help him all you can." So they took up the idea and of course the other problem is money and they worked it out so with the banks so that they would take the second mortgage and it worked

and we built thousands of houses. You see those houses there? I built every fifth house up there. Thousands of houses I built. Turning them up out 12 a week, and it worked, the whole thing worked. And the man that thought he never could have his own home had a home. [Host] In time, the basic single wall style was refined and added to. Houses began to lose the pure plantation look, the straight rectangular floor plan gave way to more sophisticated variations. Although new single wall construction has witnessed a decline over the years, the style has by no means gone out of style. Many local architects are rediscovering the form and applying it in new and imaginative ways. Architect Jim Reinhardt takes us through this three story Oahu home. [Reinhardt] This house is designed by Steve Au in 1970.

It's an adaptation of a single, what the traditional single wall house. It uses the standard single wall materials, the T&G redwood siding, the corrugated metal roof. But in this case it has a separate structural frame because of the steep hill side lot. This is a three story high house and the telephone pole and large beam structure becomes the structural element that support-- supporting the house. The redwood siding keeps out the weather and provides the enclosure. The structural frame becomes a decorative part of the house, very much a design element. The house is however very much of a Hawaiian house in other ways in that the garden, the trees, the landscape, the lanai, become part of the living space. The ventilation, the use of the windows, allow the house to be very open while still providing the sort of enclosure that can be used to protect furniture and belongings. This house has a

corrugated metal roof which is one of the traditional elements of the single wall house, the plantation house. It's used for a number of reasons: one, is it is a good roof, it lasts very well. There are metal roofs in use which have been for 30 40 years. It's also-- it reflects the sun quite well. It has good structural strength. But in this particular case, the house, because it's part of the traditional vocabulary of a single wall house, that was very instrumental in the selection of that roof for this, as being part of a single wall house. Here you can see the thickness of the single wall siding, that's basically one inch thick. It forms the enclosure for the house. And you can see the tongue and groove nature of it here. [Host] Climate, geography, sugar, and a little bit of ingenuity contributed to the single wall solution, a vernacular architecture and a

real Hawaiian natural. [Morris] What I accomplished was to put people into a home, which is the thing that I like most to do. With the help of Lewis and Cooke, we put people into homes that I don't think would have been-- would have had a home of their own if they-- if Lewis and Cooke hadn't helped us out. I was part of that. I was very glad to be, because the one thing I want to do is see people in homes. [Host] Coming up on Spectrum is a garden of stone. Here at her loom is Ruthadell Anderson to describe the texture and composition of her fiber art designs. [Anderson] I fell into weaving in the beginning but over the years I have discovered that it was a medium that I really enjoyed and I had explored other fields such as ceramics and metal.

But I think I just discovered I really like working with fibers and I love working on a loom. The subject matter or ideas for my weaving come from many sources. Sometimes just the fibers themselves suggest a kind of weaving perhaps that can be done more successfully than any other or I will go to nature sometimes for forms that can be used and transposed into weaving. But there is no one place that I draw from for ideas, they come from everywhere. Planning of a piece is really very exciting. And getting it underway and working out the various parts of the whole piece, deciding on your textures, your colors, and so forth.

Then there often comes a time where it is a little drag and you just gotta keep at it even though it's not quite as exciting anymore. And if you get through that, then you come to the other side where it's terribly exciting again when you're ready to take it off a loom. The weaving process involves preparing your warp, which are the threads that are strung on the loom, and then getting that warp onto the loom and then actually doing your weaving. This particular kind of weaving is a very free form and a lot of the decisions are made as I go along. The kinds of colors I will use, the types of materials, and how I actually work them into the piece, it's-- the decisions are made as I go although I usually work from a

simple sketch or a drawing to begin with, but this is a much freer kind of weaving and I enjoy it because you do go through this experimental process of decision making and choosing things that you think are more appropriate at a particular time. You also have to consider the construction so that if you're using dried plant material, such as this piece in here, that it's going to stay where you put it. And so there is a construction problem too. This involves not just color and texture. In recent years my husband and I have been collaborating. He's a retired professor at the university in the design department and we found that it was nice to work together with his designs and I would coordinate and sometimes do the weaving and or one of my associates

would do the weaving and I have worked this way on many different projects. Partly it evolved because there were a few too many jobs to do at one time and because weaving is a slow process. It was-- it seemed sensible to get more people involved so that we could create pieces and get them out without too much time elapsing. In the case of the state capital, we worked on pieces there that took about a year to produce but there were 10 people working on them. If I had tried to do all that myself, I think that the state would have gotten a little tired waiting for those to be completed. So it's a large project. You really have to have some assistance. We found that in the case of collaboration that sometimes it is better to limit the styles that you use and

you can adapt the weaving better to certain styles. That is, by that I mean there are certain weavings that I would do, that only I can do, and I would do the whole thing myself with maybe a little help and preparation or something. But other than that, I have to do all of the weaving because I'm making split decisions as I go along and it's very difficult to have anyone else working on it with you. But in the case of the kinds of work that I do with my husband and my other associates, we have settled on two different styles. One is what's known as a flat tapestry and the other is a knotted pile technique, which is a technique that was used at the state capital for the two large wall murals. A knotted pile technique is one where again you do not see your warp when you're through and your fill thread,

in this case is on a shuttle, but usually when you're doing a tapestry or you're doing a knotted pile, you simply make little butterflies and hold them in your hand and work with a small unit like this so that you can work in a small area and a knotted pile means that you make knots which are tied to the warp threads. And this is a technique that's used in all kinds of oriental rugs. It's a technique that's been used in countries all over the world and developed in different countries in much the same style. The climate in Hawaii is a factor to be considered in weaving because fibers will take up moisture, some more than others, and it can cause, they say, a sagging problem or something like that. Even while your yarns are on the loom, there will be some variation in the tension

caused by the difference in the humidity. The yarns that-- the wools that I use are almost all moth proofed. A permanent moth proofing which is done at the time the yarns are dyed. I prefer using wools of this type because you avoid the whole problem of moths which can damage wool in weaving and they are a definite problem here in Hawaii. I think that works that are hung in air conditioned areas and which do not receive direct light would probably last a century if they're well cared for. Others where they are subjected to weathering and that kind of thing, it can only be a few years. Today it seems that many people don't care that much if it's for a

hotel or something of that sort, they change their work so frequently that the lasting quality is not as important as when-- as for instance in the state capitol where the works are expected to stay there for years and years. And in that case I think there will be no problem because of the materials we used and the situation within the-- in the two chambers. When you work on commissions, it's always a challenge for me and I really enjoy having certain limitations set up.

A space where you know when you're through with your work it already has a home. And you have limitations say with color and texture. The scale is important. But I find it an exciting way to work to have some limitations set for me in the very beginning. And then work within those and to please the client hopefully in the end too, as well as myself. [guitar music] I wouldn't think that my style had been compromised because I work on commissions. There are certain techniques and styles that have always been good. I think they always will be good. And they're appropriate for a certain places. And I think particularly if you're working or doing work for public buildings, I think you have a tremendous responsibility to do

something that will withstand the rigors of time and will be still good many years later. I think you have a certain responsibility to the general public who are going to be using the building. And perhaps if I had gone the route of a good number of artists who have mostly prepared themselves for one-man exhibitions, one-person exhibitions, I might have worked in a different way but I don't feel I was ever held back at all. I really chose to do what I wanted to do. [Host] The Reverend Matsuura of Soto Mission Buddhist Temple demonstrates how man can be at peace with his natural surroundings. [Matsuura] The teachings of Zen

have been directly handed down from the historical Buddha, Shakyamuni, to his disciples and patriots on through to our present day. In the old Japan, Zen Buddhism was historically aligned with warriors, or bushido. This warrior's code was especially developed among Japan's military caste known as the samurai. Such a link was not unlikely, since Zen has always stressed discipline and self control in mind and body. Here in the gardens of the Soto Zen Mission of Honolulu, we work to provide a peaceful atmosphere by revealing numerous examples of nature. The garden helps to represent the unique character of Zen Buddhism. It is the urge to discover nature itself in our place within it. A rock garden stimulates the mind to see it as any number of things, as mountains, hills,

woods, or streams. Our stone garden is a replica of the Ryoan-Ji garden at Kyoto, Japan. As stone garden shows you part of the world in miniature. These stones represent islands. The surrounding sand symbolizes the sea. I rake in a circular motion close to each stone in order to give the appearance of waves

rushing to the shore. I rake the garden every day. By walking out here in the morning I can gaze at these islands and their sea. It reminds me that I move my being in a larger world than I normally see. By reducing the scale of nature, I feel closer to it. Stone is the bone of the earth. The stone reminds me that I should remain steadfast and sure, with a quiet humility. Whether it is burned and scorched by the sun, or drenched for days in a downpour, the stone continues to endure silently without complaint. Every day as I glance at the stone, I realize that my mind should share this attribute of patient endurance. I am old,

but so is a stone. This stone garden strengthens me. [Music] [Music] Spectrum was funded in part by the Hawaii State Foundation

on Culture and the Arts.