Spectrum Hawaii; 406; Terence Knapp interviews Jim Hutchinson; 405; Interview with Dr. Shuichi Kato

The following program is a production of key HEG in one of the low hopefully public television. The following program has been funded in part by grants from the Hawaii State foundation on culture and the arts and the people are Chevron in Hawaii. They are inspected. The. University of Hawaii drama professor Terrence Knapp interviews Jim Hutchison. Now in his 10th year as artistic director of the on little community theater. As a performer. Mr. Hutcherson has appeared on Broadway with such notables as a former member and remove the banquette as a choreographer. He's directed such television productions as the marquee shows the Red Skelton Show the Ed Sullivan

Show supplemented by work in numerous movies commercials and Las Vegas acts. Here's Terrence now. Welcome again to Spector why it's my particular pleasure to be here today with Jim Hutchison who is the artistic director of the Honolulu community theater a post he's held now for about 10 glorious years and I think. I regard him as one of my. Best friends. I enjoy working with Jim enormously either as a fellow performer on as a director. And he has introduced me into all kinds of ways American like taking me to the movies and eating popcorn and drinking candy soda at the same time you remember that you do in London. I mean what did you do when you went to movies you didn't eat popcorn you know you go to the cinema and you just sit there. And watch the film that's what you went to the cinema for silly boy. I mean you might eat you might suck a

boiled sweet if you were lucky but you've you've done this all your life. Jim you've been to the cinema I never went to the cinema without popcorn. So when you were little. Well I suspect the cinema had a lot to do with it because how else were you touched by the wonder world of the theater when you were born in a small town in Arkansas or went to England Arkansas England and so on. And yes there were there all the houses but it applies here. There were two movie houses in the town and the new theater and the best theater. They were the two houses. They used to do the Saturday morning serials and I would go to the Saturday morning serials. And the story goes that one afternoon because I love to roller skate. I used to have skates and I was roller skating down to get an advance on my allowance from my father. It was my fourth advance that week and I was going to have to do some pleading. And I got a little out of control and rolled right through the stage door of the best theatre

in which they were having an afternoon competition. Of who could perform. You know it's not a competition yes a talent competition. You're making this up Jamie and I. I rolled right into the middle of a baton twirlers act to be what it was. Anyway I was soon after that I was given a free pass to the theatre and asked to. Why don't I take my talent north. That sounds better than Mickey Rooney and Judy going after him. Well I thought about telling you that my father and mother were in a Tibetan circus and I was born there. I would stick a little closer to the truth. In fact you were put to music at an early age when to you yes and it sounded quite well did it. I mean you played the piano and the serious this is supposed to tell us all about us. Did you where you put to music when you were young so that in addition to skating or roller skating you you had a sense of rhythm and of tempo originality H. Yes I used to listen to it a lot Terry. I used to. There used to be a good escape. My

cousin and I often thought we would go into business on our own she was a she was a year older than I and we used to go see Errol Flynn and. Olivia de Havilland when she had done that we would come with you and I would be fronting. Yes they would come home and she would be Joan Fontaine and I would be Errol Flynn sound suit except for the kissing scenes we didn't that wasn't yes we had to jump. Nine. Well not on the country you're not quite mature at eight or nine. Was it a very different character to what was that all the movie quite a bit for you. We lived in a small town of about 2000 people and I just went back this past summer to see my folks again. And as I drove into town actually when I left there were twenty eight hundred people in town. And this summer I drove back in and I looked at the little sign that says Anglin Arkansas population three thousand and five. Hasn't changed a whole lot.

Is it is it flat. Yes it's cotton land growing cotton and soybean. And. We used to go pick cotton. You really is American as apple pie then aren't you in that sense. And this is kind of primeval. American territory we're talking this is Norman Rockwell country in a sense and that's what I used to think I used to think I came from a Norman Rockwell background. I found that we had all sorts of idiosyncrasies that spoiled that allusion later. But. I used to think it was Norman Rockwell I guess. Well how do you think your Thanksgiving and the turkey you know that you know both of which was true. Yes we did a little kinky maybe but we did well against King kid in the Alleghenies I'm told. And the Everglades. OK Brad Carson McCullers you know prepared for anything I actually I was Carson McCullers country. It was cotton and soybean and a little grammar school where you all went to the same school for. Sixth grades and then you went to one other

building from. Someone who voted you Jim who was responsible for the way you turned out. Your mother your father or anybody else. At what point in my life you talk in that we term I mean what direction. How did I get on. Yeah. With your mother my mother came from a town in Missouri her for her. Now this is good. You're going to love it because you like things American My mother's father. Was a fiddler. And called square dances. That's how he went around and made his living filling and calling square dances. And. God said a long time ago in history. Anyway that's her love for music came from that because that's what he did for a living so she was always interested in music. She herself when she met my father became a telephone operator. For Western Union operator. But she always had this and so all of my brothers. Both my brothers and my sister and myself. All

were made to learn. We had to learn some kind of instrument and did you enjoy it. All of you. I think that my thing my my two brothers my sister enjoyed it and now I enjoy it you know at the time I've fought it like crazy. I would rather go out and play in a ditch than practice piano. Playing. You never played in a ditch in London. They don't have ditches in London. If they do any kind of magic. But I can remember being in Wales when we would have accurately been giving kind of impromptu concert part to my sister and friends. Did you do that kind of thing did you. Did you in fact do the famous make a show bit when you were little. No I was far too shy with that and I was because I eventually say when I was four. Now this is a story I'm told because I don't remember this at all but my mother's favorite story is when she tried to get me into tap dancing when I was four years old. And she said I think she said it to prove that I was stubborn because I went to the

lesson. THE MAN. Evidently was not a very rational man. And got mad because I couldn't do something and gave me a little whack. You know. While I kicked him with my tap shoes on to give him a good kick in the leg and that was the last time I went to lessons until about 10. She finally talked me back into it when I was 10 years old. Because there was a very pretty young girl that I was going to be able to dance with and I thought that was rather nice. And. That's the way I got into dancing anyway. So altogether times is the U.S. set up right for the later life of a gypsy and the way I think about you it seems to me that you walk straight into what one might even think of as some of the golden years of. The American Musical and the gypsies. That's right is it really was. Yeah I want to understand what was what I was going to tell you about Arkansas one of the reasons that I didn't get involved in it was a little backyard shows and stuff because and in Arkansas when you. Sang and played the

piano and tap danced. You were the strange person in town. Yeah. Because everybody else rode bicycles and hold cotton. That kind of stuff. Anyway yes I went to New York. At a very good time and if in the early 50s. How did you get. How did you leave him to knock and so on to arrive in New York. Did you take the Greyhound bus. I took a train to Scranton Pennsylvania. And for some. Reason. I got off in Scranton where I knew these two teachers. Were the pair of khaki pants and a little short jacket. And I had that all winter. And I used to stand in one position during the winter and they would move me from because I had never been in such cold weather in my life. I froze all winter you know. 17 17 and away from home for the first time. Yes relatively sweet and loving every minute of it. And then how did you get from Scranton to.

New York. Well I went to New York and auditioned for the American School a ballet which was the Balanchine school in New York City Ballet and I audition for class and they said Come in. Now were you aware of what Balanchine meant at that time. No it was just a name. OK. You have found out later didn't show us. The whole school. But I auditioned and they said come come study. So. I did. And then I they wanted me to study in a company the ballet company. And I said How much do those people make. And at that time they were making $60 a week. You know hard ballet dancers work for 60 dollars a week. So I went to a Broadway audition and I said I would like to use you in the show and I said How much do they make on Broadway and they said 80 dollars a week. So well I'm going to Broadway. Good reason. There's a well a $60 a week. And so I did my first show was Pajama Game.

You could just backtrack from it. What did you get out of the discipline of the classical training that would prove useful to you or do you think. I'll tell you what I found just recently it's that now. Even now I can get up and dance or demonstrate steps. Relatively easy. I guess all that concentrated training. Form such. A corps. Not only emotional core but a muscular core it was that I think is what everybody you know I stand very good shape and all of those think and kind of happen rather rapidly because obviously the difference between say tapdancing and extensive use of the body as in ballet is a very different kind of technology has been. Oh yeah the excitement the masochistic excitement of dancing was something I really enjoy. Because dancing is painful. It's not always that.

Wonderfully free that Gene Kelly always made it look he's the one that got me and by the way some of them tell me about it what was the what was the first production again The Pajama Game John again. Who was directing that and who is. Mr. Rabbit SRD directed that George said Oh yes I've heard of him. The choreographer was Bob Fosi. The man called in to help Mr. Abbott and Bob was Jerry Robbins. Shirley McClaine was my partner in the course. Carol Haney and Peter Janeiro were the other two people that I danced with and when I moved into steam heat which is a big number from that show. And. It was really a wonderful time in New York. All those people working really trying and trying very hard to go somewhere. This is what kind of two years later. JIM Yeah this was yes you're what you're 19 oh so no I was 19. And. And then it was I was 20.

And I was 20 and. What was there was there magic all around you I mean. Did you know you know through the kind of dynamics and the interpersonal relationships and the invention. I say they were so excited wonderful is happening. It was really very exciting and you know and that and that foolish young when you desire that and you really want that you'll do some rather. Outrageous things that. We were rehearsing. One day and the dancers had been let go when Jerry Robbins was working with John Raitt and Janice Paige doing not at all in love which is a number that Janice does with all the girls. At one point John Raitt steps out of the elevator and makes a crossover and during the number and they all stop and watch. I'm standing backstage. Jerry's coming to that point in the number. There's no John rate. He's gone to the bathroom or something. I stepped up to the door. To door opens I walked through I made John's cross. Jerry never said a word just kept right on rehearsing.

And you know I don't know if I would ever know now I would be able to do that. The tween then and now I would not have tried that but it's something that you do on the impulse right because you know just yeah you can you can bring it off. Yes the whole point. Yeah. And it was it was such fun working with those those people. That experiences live up to the excitement of this first one Jim. What were some of the other. Show that would did not last too long but I gained a very good friend out of it. Was a show with Ethel Mermen and I became good friends with hassle. Was Happy hunting. As a show. But if it ran long enough because she sold tickets. And was no i got it perfect I got a great Mormon story for you. After all the years that I've known her she came out here and she was doing heart fund benefit or something like that and she called and so we got together and after we'd been together I said you know after all these years. I don't have a picture of you.

And she said Ah I'll send you one I'll send you one when I go back. So sure enough a couple weeks later I got this song. I couldn't read who it was from. So I said OK. I opened it up and there's a picture of this woman I don't recognize at all. But it says. I love Ethel I'm imagining I was going to get this picture that everybody saw in Gypsy. You know. I get one after facelift and everything's dead don't even look like Ethel Merman all throughout in fact and of course they do. And then how did you come to go to Hollywood. You start seeing. Opportunities for work begin to fade in New York. The big musicals were over for a variety of reasons I think after about what 10 years just. I lived in New York for 13 years. And. You start to see opportunities for work fade. TV was moving to the west coast Broadway was not using or using smaller casts.

Not so many musicals because they cost too much. So I moved to California. And I this time go to very experienced. Right. Yes what you're doing is you're going to follow just about any color. I've heard from most of the most of the name periodicals by this time. And I went to California and. Right after I moved I was very fortunate because I lived there for years and I worked on five major musicals during that time Major. The first one was Thoroughly Modern Millie. And another quick story. I did two different parts in that movie and one of them there was a close up of a girl and myself and they pulled out an old Ray Milland her piece and the guy took 45 minutes to put it on I mean it was a porch is just a disputable hair. And a closeup of this girl and I and we dropped out of frame and I go to Julie Andrews behind us. And then in the Jewish wedding. I have the calico and veered in a big

suit on it so I told my mother. And she went to see the movie. Game and I said Did you see mom and she said yeah I saw you in the wedding. She never saw the close up with all the big hair and everything she didn't recognize you had become was known as a character gone so. What was the second one. I did a. Disney movie that probably opened and closed at the drive ins. It was called The One And Only genuine original family band. Very good title and what was the technical. Finian's Rainbow. Oh that was a little late for man to stare. Yes there's that the first time you'd met and worked with Fred as jazz. And what a delight. What a delight them and us just as he appears on camera. Delightful wonderful man and I don't know if you'll take the big I was on that for about four months. And the usual length of time it takes to make no kind of you know it was Francis Ford Coppola's first directing move and. He took a little while to do it. I see a little

longer than a little longer than they had intended to do. And then and after that I did. Hello Dolly. Did you with Barbara. Yes. And. That was wonderful. That was a long job I worked on the skeleton crew skeleton crew for people who don't know as. There were 12 of us on the original crew that start to work with the choreographer and Gene Kelly directed and Michael Kidd choreographed. And stunning. We worked. We were the people that they worked it all out on accident before and then they call everybody else and we treat. We teach everyone else what's that experience doing Jim. Oh it was wonderful that kind of talent all coming together. It was one of them preserved for as long as Sally Lloyd will last as it were you know it was wonderful it really was very exciting. And. After that Jean directed a movie called The shy and Social Club. Which she called me on one day and I did a little small bit that's not even in the movie anymore. Not in a movie to which I worked I worked on on a clear day. And

there's a number and on a clear day called when I'm 65. And I danced with Barbara I had a nice little thing with Barbara. We knew each other by that time from Hello Dolly. And that's not in the movie. They cut that out chorus line and hit both the stage and then of course Natalie the cinema. It's fair to say that the man in the street has a much better idea of the life of the gypsy right. But. Do you recognize some of what was to be found in that and you know that in these other films as being something that is integral part of your life or that you remember. I think probably if I had to pick a number and chorus line it strikes the closest to home that's at the ballet. Everything is beautiful at the ballet. But I feel that about theater Terry I feel once we walk in the door to the theater that everything in the cedar. Is beautiful. And it's

not. I used to think oh it's all make believe it is not make believe. It's. A creation. When you walk in it's a creation and you can leave. The unpleasant things of your personal life in fact you have to because you're going you're going to work and you can't carry all of that with you when you go to work. But I think that number best describes. The feeling. Of theater to me. You're right when you talk about the element of work and you I think maybe that's what a lot of people just don't understand about what they pay them money to buy a ticket to see particularly in terms of community theater the amount of energy and time and discipline and focus that has to be before anything worthwhile emerges on the stage and you carry a very heavy burden in that sense don't you is as the director of the community theater which is what 70 years old I believe in on it at 72 you're

72 years old. And one of the nicest things for me was there was a young lady who worked for me on a recent play. And. One of the nicest thing she came in and her her personal life. I don't know what it was but it was a great problem to her. And I finally taught her. How to walk through that door. And leave it. Come through the door. Work on this you'll find out it's like taking a vacation really from your personal life. The hard work and the concentration and the dedication you have to do. You have to apply to be in the State Depart the part of the play that she was in. Well any part that were in there. But she finally learned that by doing that she could relieve the part of her personal life that was really disturbing her so much. And it was a one of a shock to everybody in that cast just they latched on to that. Do you enjoy you know Misty hopping around from one style of play a

musical in the way you would now have the possibility of doing right I mean you do what eight productions you say seven seven and you've done if 10 is goodness 70 to 80 productions already. So in that decade you've had mixed Jordan and exposure to styles and varieties of writing you do enjoy the gym I think. Terry yes I probably am. I feel that I'm at an advantage for that because I think I would get pretty quickly bored. Doing one if you were simply remounting the stuff that you were familiar with and yes I think. And I think you would too if we didn't have that variety. It will really be difficult. And I remember with particular pleasure what you did as an actor. I Never Sang for my father. Now I know that pop meant a great deal to you because obviously we both went into it knowing that it was something of particular joy to you in that sense right. Have you found yourself

with it with a new ventilation if you like your talent as an actor as opposed to a dance thing is what I mean. Oh yeah. Different to the psyche. It's different muscles you use different muscles if I can if I can apply that analogy. You use different muscles it's the same approach it's that same dedication same concentration but using different muscle which are using more of yourself too. Of course of course imaginatively and mentally right. Yes yes. You say it's different in that it can come out in words. Yes. And thoughts before it could come out in the way you use your body and whatever you know it all had to be expressed physically. Now it's not just physically that you have to use the thoughts in the words you find challenging. Yes I love using a different set of muscles. And I'm having great fun with it.

And I've got to play I can be in there maybe one or two coming up you know and I think I'm looking for some really good elderly Kadek to act like myself. The elderly is in a way Jim 14 14 14 year 14 is in her way. And have you seen the theatre scene grow to go destruction Oh yes I think I think it may not be where any of us like to experience that say you or I have had it may not be quite where we would like it because there's not the financial renumeration there's not the renumeration. But it has certainly grown from where it was when I came here 14 years ago. I think that community theater community itself has expanded more people have gotten involved in it more people have gotten interested and want to be a part of it.

I think it has certainly grown promises well for the future. Yes I think so. I think so. They did Gentlemen I think it would have been lovely to go on talking to Mr. Hutchinson in the next hour or so. I think it's rather a joke and I can't stop him from doing his very own thing. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you Terry. Have a good but I thank you so much. Don't don't. Don't listen to the. Beach. It's.

Still. On the pitch. Maybe. The. Spectrum was funded in part by grants from the people of Chevron in Hawaii and the Hawaii State foundation on culture and the arts. The following program is a production of Katie Chichi in Honolulu Hawaii

Public Television. The following program has been funded in part by grants from the Hawaii State foundation on culture and the arts and the people are Chevron in Hawaii. No. Today on spectrum Hawaii University of Hawaii drama professor Terrence Knapp and doctors University specialist in Japanese literature joined together to welcome a distinguished visitor to America. Doctor of Sofia University is one of Japan's foremost thinker who's widely known as a poet and novelist. This

historian of ideas joins spectrum to share his views on Japanese society art. And literature. Here's Terence now. Hello and welcome again to spectrum on this particular occasion graced by the presence of a most celebrated man from Japan a writer and novelist and critic I mean his his opus his canon of work is so enormous I can't even begin to touch it. I think his his published work runs already into 16 volumes is that correct. Yes and he has been the editor of another 16 volume encyclopedia too and with me this occasion in addition to Dr Sheree cheek out though and welcome Dr. Channing charm. I would like to begin if I may ask you to

tell us how you began your life in literature and criticism. Because before that you are a doctor. Yeah that's correct. Yes I think. My first contact him and I was completely by accident. They as a child that I was sick. I could I just. And I was able to attend to the crisis but very often the state the home of the prairies other children. So when I was in the bed at my home I was reading and the children Citysearch out there sometimes and I have exhausted the children and then I switched over to some extent. So I think I started Japanese at the church of course sometimes straight very early as a child you were reading quite complicated books than when you were

quite small. Yes yes you have your mother and your father help you in any way to day bring certain books to you and say Read this. No not so much. My parents gave me a childrens book but they have their own books and I have those books of course. After studying much but it was two books. During the war we were very much interested in the Japanese theater. You went to the north uterus and yes that's right. And then during the war just before just before then they disappear because I see.

But you had decided by this time to become a physician first because I see and hear from active critique. So I was the medical student and then doctor. And you went on being a doctor until when I think of 58. Time I was approx the same time and I was right after I started to write. Like Anton Chekhov. While practicing physician all of his life and he was writing at the time until he became so. But don't take out oh

it's a big step to leave the profession of medicine isn't it. Yes why did you jump. Not because I like to very much into medicine and such work but. I was working on blood cells. One day I asked the weather I am prepared to spend the whole of my life with a dead brother self-command why the brother says but human being has other aspects. I saw aspects of human life I wanted to enjoy and I wanted to know. So it was not. However it is not possible

as scientists to be too many things. You must be special. So I. Prefer the literature which allows me to cope with the different aspects of the human type rather than the myths which is to my suspicion. I say so as you began then to affirm your new delight in life and through her. You also started to travel is that yes exactly. You had an opportunity to leave Japan with them for the first time. That's why I go to Europe. That's quite a first time left as a doctor. And they went to the scholarship of the French government. Oh I see. I guess they'd been seen and passed.

And as I was walking abroad as doctor but I came back at the gradually shifted to the literature and finally decided but I couldn't continue through activities at the same time. And but as a doctor you cannot leave the country. But as a life that is very free. So I second the time to University of British Columbia encounter. So there was a big contrast. Yes. From France to British Canada yes. Yeah. Yeah that's the preferred because I sold he said. I think I was a pretty fluent French but I wasn't. So that I sold English is the most important international language. So I think any course

that would be nice to be. So I prefer the English speaking country. Then again he went to Germany. Every university of yes and yes. Are you going to tell me you then learned German. Yes that's so because I was in the building I was told of that all German the student can understand English should extras. So I believe the naive reading that statement and I started to talk in English. But I noticed immediately that's not all the students understood the ME so extras should be given in German and I switched from English to German. Well I take my hat off to you really. So you are comfortable and fluent in three languages other than your own. Yes which is complicated enough. Yes no

yes yes generally break down into a very complicated language to something much simpler yet a street level but I didn't see the world. I have spent I went Yeah University of Venice. Now it's not the older students understand the quite a lot of English but it was a mixture of the Italian because I was in I think able to give that picture as a horse or a thousand but they applauded you heartily for the part that you did. Sure and I applaud you heartily for being able to conduct this conversation in your splendid English. Now when did you begin to find yourself at home in this new life that you had found for yourself. How long did it take five years 10 years before you became as it were fleshed out. As a matter of critic criticize you having left

medicine behind you do you find I me or well you media today. I was I was not popular and I thought quite the popular. But when that death in the 950 if the medicine their history for the literature for an eye thing that's well I should say at these Nobody established that either. Otherwise I could leave by writing and I was absolutely. Right. But this seems to me that. I imagine no existence to the Japanese or society through the Japanese authorities. Because it's a beginning. I was alive at the same time doctor not quite complete 100 percent in some of the literature. And when I have left the medical

ward. I went over through the foreign countries so I was not always in Japan and then that's marginal and so I like to define myself as my existence and it happened. Saturday 3 that I think they have as a culture is being humble in this I think that he was a very important member of the literary group modern literature. In the late 40s and is also a novelist in his own right he has written five or six novels. Perhaps you could talk a little bit about your novels what are the main themes you know novels what sort of concerns do you have as a novelist. As a as a know that as I wanted to describe perhaps through fiction eyes that's my

important experience. Which meant for me a decisive. Cause of and the first one these away experience at the store I have described this and then insisted that I was a doctor for the company of my teens and I visited the coal mines. And I tried to describe this. Also I went over to Patty and I wanted to. This was also the size of expensive for me from 90 51 to 54 that I wanted to describe this so that everyone really would use a good novel writing autobiographical to some extent thinking about Dostoyevsky I'm thinking of jack off and think probably of William Shakespeare if we really knew. But

I'm fascinated that you write novels these people are genius. But I think the story with his own experience I think. Yes. Dr. John tell us how you first met this delightful and. Extraordinary man. I want to give a graduate student at the University of Hong Kong in 1972. When I first had the pleasure of reading some of Professor Cardoza works in English at that time I was. My Japanese was so poor that I could not read Japanese in its original. And I was interested in the relationship between modernization and the experience of modern Japanese writers. And after having read some approaches I

call those works. I was so impressed that I wrote a letter to him informing him of my research project and requested him to give me some advice concerning my research project I never of course never expecting that he would reply because I knew how busy he was. And then to my great pleasure and great surprise the reply came and this was the start of our move. Yes I thought of the he came to Egypt and he had to let them make crass at it so if you notice the detail and age it was a great thing because. He missed the Chinese and the Japanese. If you're going to have to settle for me you know talking about the Japanese military history always was

French English. But Chinese oppressed Chinese Absolutely. It's actually fascinating and I shouldn't say that the class was a became very active partly because he's part of a nice complement for you. I'm totally flattered I feel that I learned so much and you feel felt that one of the most memorable time in Japan that I've spent I've spent about five or six years in Japan. The most memorable time in Japan was spent as a student in a class and the conversation with you over coffee and over numerous dinner somebody had was just fascinating and I stand up to tell me you have become something. A commentator on things Japanese not only people outside Japan but inside Japan too is there.

Yes. Would one use the apology. Are you an apologist in that sense. Yes. You explain nothing. Yes you don't necessarily excuse them but you explain. Yes that's a reasonable yes. Why do you feel it's necessary to explain contemporary Japanese life to anybody else. Is it because it's so complicated so complex. Is life in Japan today a very complex thing. I think that that's easy to explain. The Japanese the Japanese culture the for the known Japanese because it is a while way over 50 years that is interesting that perhaps the greatest interest. And second is that to some extent that well not quite me the sense of the missionary activities but. I

think that the Japan has even pulled the so much from outside in the modern your band including of the torture and. Having air force the people outside so that I think that the balance of video beats this. Too much imports to speak and the Saudis are exposed. I think it's a good thing to talk about the Japanese culture and that brought. Now I understand. Yeah this is the second means as a result of what you've just said I understand why you should be doing what you do. Yes but the first of these and there's also the very important before me of course. Yeah yeah Dr. Crawford you mentioned the. Importation of a lot of western cultural traits into the man. Early 50s you wrote about

Japanese society and you characterized Japanese society as a kind of a hybrid. Yes culture. It's a mixture of indigenous Japanese cultural traits with borrowings from the west. Now we are now 40 years after the war. Do you still feel the Japanese society is a kind of a hybrid society with indigenous Japanese cultural traits intermingled together with. With Western borrowings. Yes definitely. Phrases the concepts of literature is already you know the West we have the theater and there was a Japanese whether for the theatre and the puppets of a couple of years if there is a poor three and a lot of Japanese forms of the Japanese was but there was no concept which embraces all the poor three pictures. This is all of this. It didn't exist the concept of literature

itself came from the west. So why not use this concept isn't my point of view and eat it doesn't it doesn't the to give the damage at all to that. The Japanese culture pro-vaccine But on the court it is a chance this activity creativity in Japan. And the so it's exactly the Chinese the concepts which came from the continent in Japan before the modern age and probably has much ahead of the Japanese to be productive in culture of fear with the influx of Western culture into Japan. Do you feel that the Japanese experience a great deal of cultural dislocation because of this influx of Western. Civilization. Different aspects of Western Civilization ranging from drinking coffee to wearing western

suits to McDonald's on games I know that's right. Yeah this creates a kind of a conflict tension in Japanese life. The need to somehow. Compromise to happen is a way of life with something that is alien and something foreign. Well through school so to speak. Many Japanese are who think who tend to answer to your question the yes that is disturbing. And some other people cry and to think that he sees nothing they say helpful. I share a view that is not disturbing them but the other helping but particularly the might. My view that is helpful or not disturbing. Anyway we cannot forget the concepts and the West and the inference. So my stance is why

not. Who will be to profit from this a situation in which France is anyway. Is it about or do you think of accepting chained with a positive and healthy attitude. You see in Britain there are many people who move something which has gone a long time and they're trying to hang on to something. Yes this is something the checkoff of course wrote about in his plays and it strikes me in the light of what you're saying that so much of the complexity of life in Japan today is because there are some people who are looking back over their shoulders while other people are looking forward with great curiosity and anticipation. And there has to be a tremendous change of transition. Yes yes is that a lot of what you are giving your mind to. Yes.

Change transition and development Yes you started and you suddenly transition and we don't know the what the future will be you know. And so to speak a duda to live in that way which was which you happened to be a transition period. Yes. Seems to me you know you're going to you know you wanted to ask a question about possible in the U.S. relations and time is going by and I know you're bursting to ask. This particular question well this is a question I'm sure that I'm the composer culture would be very interested. Given his extensive experience in North America in Europe as well as in Japan I was interested to know what you feel about the possibility of improving international understanding between Japan and the rest of Asia for example with career with China and also with with the West. Do you feel that Japan has done enough to let these countries know more about Japan or do you feel that something can still be done to

improve I think you'll understand. I think again this is back to the. Past of the cold that's always important but the level of the organisations of different delegations for the international exchange and the government are not going to add you get to a level also I think all of us think about. I think. These are the days she should be should be a father son relationship. Because in the in our family sometimes it is a communication gap. These are very often between the Father and the son. And between Japan and the foreign countries the delays are not the DP the same a pattern though this is this communication but there are other friends the brothers on the sisters. These very important you carry Tarion basically yes and on the both sides on the both

sides should do not play role of the sound. And America should play the role of the Father. Do you see any possibility of that. When you have a resolution or you know or you possibly say yes. Well not at once. We can come closer to that more subtly and in Japan itself. Such attitudes changing between father and son in family is who knows. Yes the domestic and the familial psyche of Japan is changing. Oh yes oh yes oh yes. Just because the psyche which is defined by the father's parents and the children is a changing the the Japanese have had a great deal of great lives so therefore they to be explained that the International Relations also with the phenomenal increase in the number of students are now enrolling in American universities studying Germany

and so yes understand yes. Yes Japanese younger Japanese of who have been educated in the US. Hopefully there's in fact a very exciting future ahead for Japan and its young people with this expanding experience outside their own country and vice versa. Again I must say I think I have always found the most delightful country to visit because of its complexity because it is not so that is why its an exciting yes. That would be I'm afraid I have to wrap this discussion up simply isn't enough time to talk about the many things that we might have touched upon and it has been a great pleasure to have you here with us on the spectrum Oh why don't I got to thank you very much for being here. And Dr. Chang thank you very much for coming along. It's a pleasure to make it

exciting and interesting experience for the soul. Yes absolutely. Spectrum was funded in part by grants from the people of Chevron in

Hawaii and the Hawaii State foundation on culture and the arts.