Spectrum Hawaii; "Kauai"; "Interview with John Stephans"

The following program is a production of Katie Chichi in one of the two hopefully public television. The following program has been funded in part by the waie state foundation on culture and the arts with special assistance provided by Lyon airlines. Today on spectrum we visit the. KAWAI. An island of dramatic scenery and stock contrasts. Live birds flock awkward his sketch paintings display and the famous Smokey hunted by Les is gathered and. Where the legends still toll and the legacy left by the missionaries and the sugar planters is

examined. This a car lies in the track of the trade wind. In the 18th century. While I was the first point of Hawaiian contact with the outside world Captain James Cook arrived aboard the first of many British ships of exploration seeking a safe port for English for trade as they might be wooded and water. Once in car wise the Voyagers discovered that the Hawaiians living here have perfected an ancient method of producing a highly valued commodity salt. By creating a series of salt on the Hawaiians of power while we're able to convert sea water into salt crystals which were then used as a fish preservative as a condom and. This was an improvement over the voyages previous experience i.e. where the natives dipped every mouthful of food is just seawater before eating it.

These salt ponds are an example of native ingenuity seizing the advantage of koalas long dries. The word wife means to dry in the sun since more driftwood was found here than on the other islands in olden times. Oh I was the only island to suffer from famine due to drought. Yet to the Hawaiian land was just as vital as water. The two were inseparable as a source of sustenance for survival. The chief and his dependents had to control three kinds of land mountain for wood goods and fresh water cooler and or level of land to build houses upon to grow peat grass for that she root for dried and taro field. Finally caught by. The landmark by the sea

put Carrow and coconuts were planted. The ocean was fish nets were spread and the fish ponds were cultivated. Legend tells us that this fish pond was built by the many honeys in a single night. These little bird people stood in two rows of 20 miles across the southern hills from Machiavelli valley passing the stones from hand to hand. Today busy hands now select fresh water prawns from ponds well planted these delicacies using nets baskets and boxes aquaculture is the name given to this new form of cultivation in Kauai. The arrival of missionaries marked a new era and 19th century Kauai at the urging of the Hawaiian people. The Whyalla mission house and church were founded at heart I lay. Following the ministers came missionary teachers such as Apna

and Lucy Wilcox who began teaching Hawaiians how to read and write their own language. Here is Robert Schleck curator of the Wiley Mission House Museum. Abner and Lucy Wilcox came here too why only mission house in 1846 along with their seven sons. They came here as missionary teachers. The missionaries. Influence was religious as well as educational. And they the Wilcox's trained their seven sons down in there. Their mission school. Their influence continued with the education of theirs. Several of their sons on the mainland and one to the mainland to study new technologies which could be used here in Hawaii. The greatest influence of missionaries on Kauai. Was of course religion and this is obvious through churches here at home late and and around the island.

Among the missionary descendants several chose to become Should the planters his bonce Resnick on plantation life in Kauai. Plantations on Kauai are interesting as they are in all the islands but they're especially interesting because of the earliest sugar grown in the beginnings of the sugar industry in Hawaii. We're right here on Kauai in the 1830s at Colo. By the time bannock sation 1898 you had

here on this island you had nine plantations in operation. That's interesting today because there are only four plantations still operating. But if you start on the west side of the island and run right around to the north shore you'd find that there were plantations located everywhere growing sugar. The impact of sugar on Kauai of course can be measured in several ways the physical appearance of the island really the natural history of modern Kauai is somewhat shaped by sugar crop fields and sells irrigation systems. The cane hold world's roads the former former railway track beds all of those of course give us a look of the land that is directly attributable to sugar. But the impact of sugar is seen in in social ways as well. If you had nine plantations that's that's where people were living they were

living on the plantations they were living in camps and of course as we know each plantation had more than one camp and at the time would say of annexation and 1900 and grow farm had four camps. Later we expanded that to more than six. And if you look. At the plantations in terms of the social impact it's the multiple multi cultural life of the plantations that give Hawaii its its own unique history of people coming beginning of course with the Chinese starting to work with Native Hawaiians on the plantations and followed by the Portuguese and Japanese and then of course by Filipinos. You then have people bringing their own culture. And and planting that here in Hawaii and adapting to to Hawaii to this place and and then finally to it to the United States itself. And that meant that on each plantation you had people who who brought with them their language their music and their

crafts and their family traditions. That is what we had then if I so much today as a part of Kauai lifestyle. I've known him for quite a number of years and he had worked. 50 years for one of the plantations and came over when he was 20. In 1975 he came to us to work in the subsidized employment program for senior citizens. Called the Senior Community Service Employment Program. And when we discovered he could make these marvelous baskets and that he was also an excellent teacher he is very patient. And he's taught. Many dozens of seniors to make these beautiful baskets and they take a long time to make. But they can sell all they make if they want to part with them. You know. We think Mr. gas gun is pretty special man. These baskets are exceptionally durable. They just

never wear out. I bought one from him that was 20 years old and he gathered eggs and fish and taken into the ocean. And it was just like new and just strong as carbon wood. They really are special baskets. In the 19th century a leper colony was established on callup on Molokai to separate cases of confirmed leprosy from the rest of the population. When a leper was deported by ship to kind of papa he was sometimes allowed to take his wife with him but not always on call why call out the cowboy contracted leprosy was deported and after being denied the company of his wife he jumped ship defied the authorities and lived as a desperado on the run. He is Valka Knutson to tell us about the runaway leopard. And so he was an outlaw he had jumped ship and they fled

and they fled the color Lao valley and it was wasn't until three or four months passed by that the sheriff Stuart found out that COLA Lao had not reached the papa and so he determined to see if he could find him. What did the sheriff have in mind. Did he know that could i was dangerous and an expert shot. All of a sudden one day. A young runner came up into the valley saying to Cole allow share of Stults is landing and he's carrying a gun. And colo was a very fine gold hunter and he had an Austrian needle gun. I've seen it. It was a pretty good rifle and he armed himself too and went down on the flat of Callao which is just above the stream on the north side and there's a great big rock as high as this and so he stood behind this rock

and chair of stilts came up the trail. Well. Finally when Stoltz was within 10 or 15 yards caught allow stood out from behind the rock and he said Here I am I understand you are looking for me and he had his gun like this. And Sheriff stoled said you are an outlaw and I've come to take you dead or alive. And go allow said I'll go to the leper settlement if I can take my mop 1A with me my my wife with me rather and sheriff still said I have come to take you alone. Dead or alive. The leper settlement. With that he lifted his gun would call out lifted his gun far quicker and shot Stoltz dead with one shot. This is big trouble for color now should he continue to run and hide in the trees the mountains the caves of kind of the valley. He must

have known when the sheriff failed. Others followed about a month later. The provisional government feeling that this sort of a revolt could not occur or be allowed to occur. Some a company of men under a very fine leader. Discovered valet and to again take the fugitive coal allowed dead or alive. Well I couldn't find him. Go loud and sitting up in his cave watching the ship land and watching these guys run all around the valley and he was feeling pretty smug I guess. But however the last day the captain was a good mountaineer. He climbed the ridge to see if there wasn't one last chance of finding coal allow and as he pulled himself up over the ledge he looked right down to allow his gun barrel and call out shot him. And as he fell there were two privates with him

and then they all fell off this very Now Ridge and died of the fall. He was already dead but the 2G eyes were dead. After they fell about five hundred feet. Surely the authorities did not cease to affix to bring in a lawbreaker is his fate now sealed. Indeed Koolau future looks grim after Cora loud disappeared that time no one could find him. The hunt was given up and according to my dad he was walking up the valley and there was a brazen nice new house up there. My father said to buy him a hello. Well who's nice new houses up. And by any other law said Wyatt Ah indeed they had burned go allows house as in retribution I suppose when they landed there they swept searches houses the grass shack and they

burned it down so nobody really knows where coal out hit doing those last days of the troops leaving but he was back in Callao living and he died in Callao Valley. That only makes him an E. Palmer Rice specializes in situ nout the indigenous materials that make up 10 loci one of my lays. She has a keen eye for these woodland materials most of which go unnoticed by the casual observer. We need leads and we were little children. It was fun making enemies. I have nine brothers and sisters in my band. And we've always had a beautiful garden in our yard. And whenever MITI came along he would make us for that particular celebration. Not all of us like to make plays. It was. Mostly my sisters and I.

Were like. This. And it was a fun kind of thing. It was only after I got married that I really got into making me. We used to go up into the forest and gather many of the indigenous kinds of plants to put into these Lees because they are beautiful. Each island has especially here in our specially is the Miley on the knee. Here we have the lucky HANO lucky Hanukkah rules here in our forest and it's very seasonal. If you do not know what to look for when you're in the forest you will never ever find the Miley where the monkey hung up because it is not fragrant in the forest. After you pick it and crush the bark of the Miley then you have this wonderful fragrance after you pick the milky Hama and gather it and pierce it with a needle. Then you

have the wonderful fragrance of the berry. These two ladies are made separately and then they are in TWINE together and when you are through you have one of the most beautiful and most ancient of all Hawaii and. Why Liza Warren bite everybody. You're not special leaves for special people. Everybody can wear a Miley. And this is why the mighty Lee is such a popular name. This Lee is gathered in the forest in sections each section is tied together to make a longer single leg. The single only number from four to eight strands.

It depends on how much money you have and it depends on how important the person you're going to give this lead to after you've finished making the single strands of mightily you put them together and then you twine them together by spinning them. And this is how the mightily is done. They spin it together. This technique is called villi. On Hawaii. The mighty Lee is tied together and this is called putting on a waffle. And the mighty is braided in three sections are taken and then braided. And this is called Haiti. Oh. Whoa. Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Lol. Lol. Lol. Well it was a. Little. Cold. The whole. Night. LOL LOL. Lol. Lol. The croquet Museum located in the Kochi state PA is the headquarters

for naturalists big watches hikers and biologists here local mountain plants and animals may be seen and studied in then natural habitat. Here to introduce us is the museum's association director. We're known AC is look OK in their history museum was started to tell the story of croquet. The people who. Live up here find it very very important that the things that grow here and then Wrigley are preserved that the people who visit the value the things that are only here and nowhere else in the world. There are many plants that grow only here and some that are related to others like the native Begonia that has such a beautiful blossom and grows over across the way from here. There are many birds that are only here the honey creepers that Darwin was

excited about and mentioned in his works although he didn't come here to study. David Martin has done some magnificent bird pictures he has found a great deal of time up here and his photographs and his photos are used by the whole society to depict things and also by the Nature Conservancy. And he introduced Cheryl to us and she has done some of these marvelous paintings that we're so proud of. The Byington David and Cheryl they had watches with a purpose. David photographed them and Cheryl draws them sometimes closer than it's lucky we've got the Shearwater this time. I guess this is the time of year when the new rules do their fledging and leave the nest and head down below to head out to sea for a couple years were like We've got this guy a box of us right now he isn't. I think you still got

the down on him David. Looks like Hugo. Visitor. This is a threatened species and every year hundreds of these crash into the lights are on the way. I pick up the ones out on the west side. Ban them and. As soon as possible release them take them down to the beach so that they can go fly off to see him. Once they're released they'll be out at sea for about four years or so. A missed opportunity for sure hope to be able to have these birds close by for growing. I much prefer to work from the live model rather than say from study skins from the museum although those are helpful to or from photographs. A camera is a good tool to have. It can record details that possibly at a distance your eye can't perceive at the time

and your study skin can give you hands on information you can see how the feathers lay and maybe what the colors are and move the bird around in the light. Because of course the colors of the feathers do change with the light. I'd much prefer to be outside where the birds are found because I think that they lend a sense of life to a painting. The gestures and attitudes that a bird assumes in doing what he does normally. I guess the head is the last place where that down is lost. Could you hold his foot up for me for just a second. See you all still little guy. Yes you'll be released very soon. You're in limbo. All right he's got pink webbing between his toes. That's a distinguishing character for the new We'll share water.

Well there goes a pair of something let you take a look and see what you see. Cheryl Boynton's paintings hanging in the cloak a museum as well as the Smithsonian Institute in Washington D.C. These paintings offer the view of a colorful opportunity to study the rare forest and see birds of God why will they grow so rare that they become extinct for it is a curious fact that Howie is the source of more extinct species of bird life than all of the other continents combined. The new Oceana water is of special interest to residents of CA why here local citizens may contribute to the protection and release of these endangered sea. The new water release program is directed by Dan mariachi

ranger at the Key Largo and big sanctuary. I reckon eugène home to the local nesting sea beans. Kill away a point is a 32 acre site on the northern part of the island of Kali and basically its purpose is twofold it's a nesting area for four species of sea birds and also provides an opportunity for the public to view a lion seabirds one of the few areas in the state where you can see abundance of sea birds. This is a young wedged tail share water. You notice that it doesn't have any primary feathers it's about five weeks old. And this is a more mature bird. You know as the primaries are well developed it's about two months old. Normally these birds Baro in a hole which they dig into the ground. In this case it looks like the adult took advantage of this piece of plywood laying here and constructed its nest underneath the plywood. The refuge a kill a point offers a number of attractions is the historic Kellaway a

lighthouse. And of course there's wide vistas of the coastline and of course the nesting seabirds the red footed boobies and the red tailed tropic birds the wedge tail share waters. And the frigate birds. Why is a cohesive community bound together by its isolation its heritage of respect for land and sea and by its people's abiding loyalty to the native soil. If for some reason they should leave. Many feel compelled to leap to. There is an old adage about this island coined long ago. It says that all good things come to come right at last. Join us again on our next spectrum. Or.

You know. The preceding program has been funded in part by the Hawaii State

foundation on culture and the arts with special assistance provided by Hawaiian Airlines. In the following program is a production of key HPT in what a

little public television. The following program was funded in part by the Hawaii State foundation on culture and the arts. You are. Oh you already know. Today on spectrum we welcome a distinguished guest to our show. Author of a new book entitled How I eat and of the Rising Sun. Dr. John stiff on is a professor of modern Japanese history at the University of Hawaii. Here to interview Dr. Steve is Spectrum's executive producer Nino Jay Martin.

Good evening and welcome to spectrum thank you for joining us this evening. Recently the University of Hawaii Press published this book entitled Hawaii under the rising sun. It is an absorbing narrative on Japan's plans for conquest of Hawaii and beyond. After the attack on Pearl Harbor. This book is the product of a scholar writer John J Stephane who has extensively researched the material in Japan's military archives as well as in the pre-war and wartime Japanese literature about Hawaii. Dr. Stefan has his degree in East Asian studies from Harvard and his Ph.D. in Japanese history from the University of London School of Oriental and African Studies. He is the author of several books including Sokal and a history of the islands for which he has been awarded the Hawaii or rather the Japanese cultural translation prize in 1983. He is fluent both in Japanese and Russian and makes his home here in Honolulu where he teaches modern Japanese history at the

University of Hawaii. And John welcome to the program. Thank you very much here. Pleasure. You made it back from Russia OK all in one piece. Yes thank you. And you pronounce your name Stefan. Yes that's correct. Which also could be pronounced Stephan as the Russian say or a stiff one as the Japanese would say you know what is the your own ethnic background. Through the paternal line German and the maternal line Swedish third generation. Well you've written quite an impressive book here in Hawaii and of the Rising Sun and certainly it's available here in the bookstores in Honolulu now and it's going to be translated into Japanese I understand and will be in Japan. What was your motivation and interest in studying the dead Japanese culture. Back in the 1950s as a boy growing up in Connecticut I started to read translations of Japanese novels that were then being published by the company in New York. Novels by Mishima Tunney Zaki and I became increasingly drawn to Japanese aesthetics and encouraged

by my parents took advantage of an opportunity to work in a second hand bookstore in Japan starting in 1961. It was in that year in Japan. That I made a decision to make the study of Japanese history a life time devotion. He used to read around the little bicycle as well it was in the earth with the permission of my employer that I took a bicycle trip around Japan and fell in love with the country fell in love with the language which I'm still struggling with by the way. After more than 20 years of application it's a language that a foreigner can devote a lifetime to without mastering it. And it was from that time that I started to return to Japan annually to study the history and the literature and the language more deeply. Well there's certainly a contrast between the Japan of today certainly the Japan war Japan what made you get interested specifically in the subject of

Hawaii under the rising sun. Well I've thought about that question a number of times and I think it can be pinpointed to the summer of 1961 when my employer sent me up to Tokyo. He had an office in the city of Tokyo the main office was in the city of Kyoto to scout old bookstores in the condos section of Tokyo. You may know that condo is a part of Tokyo where secondhand bookstores are lined up for half a kilometer. And there's a tremendous amount of war time in pre-war literature being sold there particularly in the 1960s. And without really. Consciously deciding to write on the subject or to study the subject of why I began to notice wartime books that talked of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere. This was a concept developed in the early 1940s in Japan and was a major war objective to create a Pan Pacific pan is sciatic sphere under Japan's

guidance. I bought a few of these books out in 1961 in 1962. And I think from this time on. It came to my attention that Hawaii was to be part of the sphere. These books of sat on my bed sat on the bookshelf through a number of years when I was devoted to other projects. And in the mid-1970s I looked at them again and realized that here was something of possible interest because the literature of World War 2 makes no mention whatsoever of an invasion and occupation of a wide being a major Japanese war objective. As we all know Pearl Harbor was a sneak attack. The destruction of a number of American battleships. But not an invasion of a wide and involved occupation of why. Well you were talking about incidents that happened over 40 years ago. You know why. Why publish a book now about events that happened that long ago. And then

as you read through the book it's kind of speculation. What if this would have happened what if that would have happened although it's very factual in terms of the research. What are we going to learn from this book. First of all we're going to learn quite a bit about the psychology and psychological atmosphere prevailing in Japan before and during the Second World War. We're going to learn about how Japan's leaders identified and pursued Japan's war objectives. We're going to learn about how these objectives were translated into action. We're going to learn about the really confusing and complicated relationship between the civilian leadership of Japan the naval and the army leaders. Those I think are all important subjects that the Hawaii invasion plans throw lightning. OK let's talk a little bit about that. Given the the military successes that Japan had in Southeast Asia and Burma Singapore Philippines and China. What was Japan's philosophy at that time and the attitude towards world power

in Congress. Very well. This is a complicated question to answer briefly. I would say that in the 1930s Japan felt itself. On one hand increasingly isolated from world opinion after its occupation of Manchuria in 1931 in 1930 to Manchuria being what is today the north east part of the People's Republic of China. And at the same time. Japan's leaders felt increasingly driven to secure for the Empire. A position of autonomy and self-sufficiency in what came to be seen as a Greater East Asia. The Japanese tried to pursue this through diplomacy. By constant negotiation with the United States and with Holland and Southeast Asian with Britain trying to achieve a guaranteed supply of raw materials such as a troll Iam durables precious metals. But increasingly through a complex chemistry of independent Japanese army

action for example in Manchuria and a war in China that fester during the early 1930s and then broke out into a full scale war. After 1937 Japan's leaders came to the conclusion that only by direct military control of a large part of east and southeast Asia could Japan achieve its overriding goal of guarantee national security and economic self-sufficiency. It was something that was a big that was a major goal and we the United States in a way encouraged perhaps not willfully these policies by trying to punish Japan economically for what it was doing in China by cutting off supplies of scrap metal and eventually declaring a full and Bargo in the summer of 1941. As the years passed America United States and Japan relationship began to deteriorate. What was Japan's attitude towards America as we were approaching the attack on Pearl Harbor.

Well that the country had a number of different attitudes one type would be a feeling of hopefulness among certain Japanese intellectuals and among moderate members of the armed forces particularly the Navy and moderate levels of the cabinet I would certainly include the emperor of Japan and the prime minister Conroy a prime minister from 1937 various times until October of 1941 felt that there could be a. Mutually agreeable solution to the China problem. A solution between Tokyo and Washington. But these the solution was not found. And increasingly. These leaders came to accept the inevitable almost fatalistically to accept the inevitable decision to fight with the United States to from their position protect your pan Security to preserve the Empire of Japan which they felt was threatened by American economic strangulation I might add that American actions in the late 1930s and early

1940s were taken in conjunction with China Holland and Britain. And the Japanese perceive this as a form of encirclement a form of economic strangulation. Did they ever think that the United States would lose a possibility of losing I want you. Well this I don't think that among civilian political leaders in Japan before World War 2. The possibility the United States losing Hawai was a major it was not was on their minds nor was it on the minds of Japan's military leaders before Pearl Harbor. It was however on the minds of a small number of medieval officers. Who even before Pearl Harbor. Saw Hawaii as a strategic threat to Japan's national security. Why after all they could call it an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the middle of the Pacific. And as a naval aviation developed. Into a first rate instrument of modern warfare. A wise role came to be quite important for Japan's national

security. Didn't the United States though suspect this. There's a great deal of controversy about whether or not the United States it was of a particular new. That we were going to be attacked here. What do you want. I'm afraid I can't throw too much light on that particular problem. The question of Roosevelt's knowledge before the December 7th 1941 of the Japanese strategic plans is a question that has to my mind been only partially illuminated by research to date. There are some. Historians who are willing to entertain the idea. That Roosevelt and a certain member of the United States government had a good hunch of what actually happened on December 7th 1941 and deliberately kept local commanders Admiral Kimmel and General Short in the dark about how much Washington knew about Japan's strategic plans. But certainly there was a tension building up and particularly with the residency of American Japanese here. Realize that there is a tension growing between

Japan and the United States. Absolutely. Certainly during that period of time there must have been a terrible problem with them in their own reality towards Japan their own loyalty towards United States and uncomfortable feeling among American Japanese here. Well I think our tendency this is a question of a very complex question and a delicate question that I have looked at. Only partially. The position of the Japanese American community in Hawaii before the World War Two is one that is complex because there were different groups within the community with different attitudes different attitudes towards the international situation different attitudes in pacifically towards Japan's goal to building a new order in East Asia. The position of the community here is complicated by generational differences between Ysaye or those born in Japan and living in Hawaii but denied American citizenship and

the niece a son say generations second and third generations born in the islands who had American citizenship. Great differences in how each of those generations viewed the deteriorating international situation. You talk in the book about the double sensible. Yeah please don't. Perhaps the yes. This is a word that is not used in the discourse of American works about Japanese Americans we talk of Japanese Americans. However before World War 2 the Japanese writers and I'm talking of writers in Japan Japanese nationality the government and the military use this term. It means in English compatriots. And it reflects a perception in Japan that all. Members of the Yamato race whether they are living in the United States or in Brazil or in Mexico whether a first or second or third generation are called Go

home and there was a tendency before the war drew you. All Del ho. Essentially as if not citizens of Japan. As individuals of having a special relationship to Japan. And people for whom the Japanese government felt a certain concern. For. The. Prior to Pearl Harbor that this really here there was a tremendous confusion among the east and the doe who didn't know which way things were going to go there was a tension building up here. You know why. Well yes the one looks at the pre-war Japanese language press in Hawaii Hawaii what she or the newspaper you go in the hall by. One sees a curious admixture of Japanese patriotism. These papers in their Japanese editions refer to the Japanese

army as our army and the Japanese air force fighting in China as our angry Eagles were used on the one hand a unambiguous. Patriotic view of Japan but on the other hand a very patriotic pro-American view also. The papers were it is true some of them had their doubts about President Roosevelt as an individual but they were the feelings expressed in these local Japanese language newspapers where I would say pro-American. The hostility in the papers was directed largely to the Soviet Union communism. And to a certain suspicion to Britain and France particularly Britain with its colonial ambitions in East Asia. There was also a curious approach though on our own newspapers here for example you have the headlines saboteurs land here. Now this is from the head of the advertiser and it's dated December 8 this is right after the attack and you saw the tour's that that would imply that it's an

internal. Yes I think in the intelligence circles and even in Army intelligence and Naval Intelligence and among certain members of the press here before the war. There was a suspicion that. The Japanese-American community here. Contained elements that could be the only be described as a potential fifth column elements. And the psychology was so strong in the community before the war that in the wake of the attack on December 7th 1941 a. Considerable concern and as you know there were many rumors about sabotage and espionage in the immediate wake of the attack. This advertiser headline reflects this psychological preoccupation with internal sabotage when the real. The threat was in December 41 external external of us Japan.

The Hawaii at that time this is pre Again Pearl Harbor now supported the German fighting in Europe and specifically in fact there's a picture of the Japanese. Ambassador did you have accidentally eulogium with your fear. Well I should say looking at some of the editorials. Not so much oh I hope she but go away. There is a an element of admiration for German aspirations in the 1980s. Hitler was compared to Psycho Talk of Mori the Japanese hero of the 19th century leader of the warriors of Satsuma. There was a feeling that German aspirations in Europe were legitimate and should be satisfied however. Curiously there was no in spite of this Japanese feeling in the press. There was a war after all going on in China and it was perhaps quite natural for the Japanese language press here to support the Japanese Army's struggle in China. There was no feeling among

members of the editorial staff and so far as I can see that being pro Japanese might be regarded by some Americans as being subversive. This is what I would call one of the many illusions fears in the book that I've written. The illusion which I feel was widespread among the east a generation that being pro Japanese was in fact could be interpreted as being pro-American. They were not I'm sorry anti-American generation was not anti-American. By and large a vast majority say they were pro Japanese but not anti-American. But that was actually proven immediately after. Yeah absolutely what happened. Absolutely. What was the loyalty then. Well after Pearl Harbor and the after the institution of military rule in Hawaii the Japanese language press fell under military censorship. And it's the editorial policy is of course reflected those of the military government. But there was not a single case that we know of.

Disloyalty within the Ysaye community in Hawaii of course and then when they went on here in Hawaii and formed one of the battalion the 440 second the NIS say yeah it's a nice day and of course became heroes. Let's move on a little bit into the book here now are we talking a little bit about the war itself and who did the actual planning and the philosophy with with Yamamoto coming over and doing the invasion and sea and air. But apparently there's a conflict between Yamamoto you know in the Navy and the army commanders Well I think we should divide the planning into two parts. The military planning for an invasion of Hawaii and a civilian planning for occupation of allied these are two related but in a way distinct subjects Yamamoto knew the United States very well he'd studied at Harvard University. He was a naval attache in Washington in the late 20s he was a specialist and a great supporter of air power. And he as a young man as a young captain in the 1920s realized that Hawaii was

a key American base in the Pacific. As long as Hawaii remained in American hands it would threaten Japan. Why in Japanese hands could defend Japan and threaten California Alaska and the Panama Canal. And as early as nine hundred twenty eight Yamamoto in a lecture to the Naval torpedo school said that in any war with the United States we must capture Hawaii. What he meant by that. I think as revealed by subsequent literature was that. Only when how why would be in Japanese hands and prevent an American counter offensive against Japan an Air counter offensive. And only in Hawaii when Hawaii was in Japanese hands could. The Japanese Navy discourage the United States from prolonging the war. Yamamoto knew that a long war would be unfavorable for Japan. The United States had greater industrial power had greater resources manpower natural raw materials a war of

attrition could only end in defeat for Japan. Yamamoto calculated on a short war in which the United States would be discouraged from continuing after Hawaii fell into Japanese hands. But the Army didn't believe this. Well yes opposed to Yamamoto was first of all the naval stuff. You have a motto was commander in chief of the combined fleet. He was primarily an operational officer. The naval general staff in Tokyo opposed any invasion of Hawaii because it went outside of their very conservative planned war plan which was to lure the United States fleet to Japan and destroy it there and then end the war on that. Of course they were foiled because our own carriers went out into the Pacific and ran the famous Doolittle raid into Japan which was the first time actually that our planes were able to penetrate the heart. They call it what you call in the book The Heart of the Empire. Yes and then went on to for them and said that they had to get involved of course went to Midway which yesterday the Doolittle Raid of April 18th

1942 is in fact the turning point of the Hawaii invasion plans as a military operation and before that the army had opposed an invasion of y as being too costly too risky and as detracting from units in China and Manchuria the naval general staff opposed it. Do a little convinced the army and the naval general staff that Hawai must be taken because as long as it remained in American hands raids would continue on Tokyo. Let's speculate since we're doing some speculating anyway. Suppose you did have the support from the Army and when he made the initial attack on Pearl Harbor and they did a land invasion same time and actually took the Hawaiian Islands How would that have changed things. Well it would have changed them greatly in the short run and possibly in the long run. Why was defended in 1941 by about 20000 American ground troops and had Yamamoto had 40000 units of let's say the 7th Division from Hokkaido the 2nd Division from Sendai who would have fallen within ten days I

believe. I think resistance on the islands would have been weak. I don't think there would have been a major guerilla movement. I think Japan would have quickly developed Hawaii into a forward base threatening California Alaska and Panama Canal in the long run however. Because of the United States a superior material forces a counter invasion would be inevitable. And that would have led to a very sad and costly and destructive chapter in Hawaii's history. Very probably the situation would have been like Okinawa with an island becoming a battlefield and thousands of civilians dying. Let's address now the the main point. We're not many of the ones in the book but the title Hawaii under the rising sun. You have a chapter entitled Hawaii under Japanese rule. What were the plans at the time only Japanese. I'm glad you mentioned plans there was no single master blueprint for occupation policy there were a number of scenarios drawn up by journalists scholars and

members of various institutes a national plan here for this particular one is interesting it's called What shall we do with why. And the author of it is Colbert. Born in Japan but raised in Hawaii a graduate of the mid-Pacific Institute and spent the war in Japan working at an institute that was affiliated with the Imperial Navy. And what did this include. Well certainly this is one possibility he discussed was reviving the Hawaiian monarchy. Another was to contact. Members of the state government who were of Hawaiian and of ancestry and particularly those that had been educated in Japan. He thought they would be helpful. And another possibility was to reorganize the economy of the islands to make the island self-sufficient de-emphasizing pineapple and sugar and emphasizing rice and vegetables.

Also one of the other points was that I found interesting was they want to dissolve the five. Yes that's mental regions and yes that would be. But they did not go into great detail on exactly how that would be carried out but it was one of the principal in the minute we have left. Has Japan's goal for self-sufficiency in food and energy been satisfied would you see the future. Well I think Japanese leaders today realize they are part of a delicate international fabric that there is no such thing as absolute self-sufficiency in the modern world. We all are into interdependent with each other. And I think a knowledge of that makes us a much safer world today. I don't think the Japanese are going to within the foreseeable future try to achieve total self-sufficiency as they tried unsuccessfully to do in the 1940s. Our very special guest today has been Dr. John J Stephane he is the author of the new University of Hawaii press a book entitled Hawaii under the rising sun which is available certainly in all of the bookstores here in Honolulu in Hawaii.

And if you have an opportunity pick it up because it's a fascinating book we've only touched on a very small amount of the information that's in this book and I think you'll find very interesting John good luck to you. You're going back to Russia. Yes and you're going to be writing another book. Thank you very much. Thank you for being with us. Pleasure. And thank you for being with us on the spectrum today hope that you enjoyed the program and we'll see you next time around. Spectrum was funded in part by the Hawaii State foundation

on culture and the arts.