PowerPoint; Black Republican Vote; Racial Profiling

Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by the National Legacy Foundation, a nonprofit organization committed to enhancing, preserving, and restoring the legacy and history of life in America. This is PowerPoint, an Information Age clearinghouse for news, issues, and ideas that impact the African -American community, the nation, and the world. Good evening and welcome to PowerPoint, broadcasting live from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Carmen Burns. At last month's annual meeting of the NAACP in Baltimore, Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush admitted his party had made mistakes in addressing the concerns of America's minorities. At the Republican Convention two weeks ago, the Republicans made it clear they were reaching out to minorities and in particular, African -Americans. But are African -Americans ready for the Republican Party? Some say yes, but others are skeptical that if the Republicans win the election, people of

color will be forgotten. Tonight on PowerPoint, we talk to some prominent African -American Republicans about what they believe the party has to offer minorities, African -Americans and the Republicans coming up next. But first, to the PowerPoint news desk for a wrap -up of this week's news. With news and information to empower the community, this is PowerPoint. Good evening. I'm Bruce Dorton. Federal safety officials are still trying to find out what led to yesterday's fatal pipeline blast in Southeastern New Mexico. The explosion killed 10 people who had been camping near a bridge that carries the natural gas pipeline over the Pecos River. Officials say the victims are all members of three local families, five of the dead with children, three of the infants, including a set of twins, two people remain hospitalized tonight in critical condition with severe burns. The explosion left a crater 20 feet deep and melted sleeping bags and tents. State Police Captain John

Balderson said the only way they could tell one structure was a tent was the geometric design of the poles. The University of Georgia will appeal a federal judge's ruling that declared the school's admissions policy unconstitutional, but UGA President Michael Adams says the school will drop race as a factor in admissions while the case is in court. Tuesday's announcement came one day after new UGA numbers show the school's student body is about 84 percent white and about 6 percent black. That's far out of proportion with the state population. Last month the federal judge said UGA's admissions policy was unconstitutional, because the statistical boost it gave is some non -white applicant some moderate to ratio preferences. Adams says he and the state board of regents have the support of Georgia Governor Barnes on the appeal he says an appeal should come in two weeks. About 30 members of the U .S. Capitol Black Police Association staged a small rally this past week to

express their lack of confidence in a Capitol Police official who has been accused of uttering racial epithets. John Callfield, who serves as general counsel of the Capitol Police, is currently under investigation by the force for allegedly uttering the epithets at a cab driver in February is privately denied making the statements. The Capitol Police officers are upset at the fact that they met with Capitol Police Chief James very in June and were assured that the incident was being aggressively investigated, but the officers have not heard from very since then. U .S .C .V .P .A. spokesman Mac Whittaker says the office is a concern that Callfield assesses penalties for them when they're being disciplined and nothing happens to him when he's involved in conduct unbecoming an officer. The police investigation was prompted by a February incident in which police in Alexandria of Virginia pulled over a taxi cab after the cab driver flashes lights at the squad car. The driver informed the officers that his passenger later identified as Callfield had been acting in an abusive manner, including using

racial epithets against the driver. At the time he was pulled over, the driver had been shuffling Callfield from one ATM machine to another for a half hour in an effort to obtain his fare. Callfield had claimed that each of the machines was out of order. The cab he tells me that he's been driving around for about a half hour trying to get money and all Callfield has been doing this threatening him, calling him the N -word, and cursing him out. Wrote one of the officers in an email obtained by the Hill newspaper. Alexandria police officials determined that Callfield was inebriated so they escorted in home. Callfield's wife gave one of the officers money to pay the cab driver. Archbishop Desmond Tutu, a leading activist in the struggle against apartheid, returned home from a two -year sabbatical in the United States Thursday, saying he planned to take a well -deserved rest. It's so wonderful to be back, it's enough to move one to tears. He told reporters after arriving at Cape Town's airport. Tutu, who underwent surgery for prostate cancer in November last year, said his recovery had been slower than expected and pledged to maintain a low profile. I left some

sports in a minute, but on the health side of things, getting children back on a normal sleep schedule after a summer of staying up late will benefit them in the classroom. PowerPoint's Health Line reporter George Kovacic reports from Houston. Getting children back on a normal sleep schedule after a summer of staying up late will benefit them in the classroom. Dr. Max Hershkowitz with Baylor College of Medicine in Houston says a lack of sleep causes most of the day's experiences to be stored inefficiently in the brain, making it difficult to remember lectures and interactions with teachers. People's emotional control is impeded by sleep deprivation, learning is impeded by a loss of emotional control. So these things are an extra blinked together. Hershkowitz says there is a way to get children used to waking up early. Have a person get up at six o 'clock in the morning and get them bright light, either through a bright light box or even just getting into the sunlight and reading the newspaper. You can probably advance their clock a few hours if you do this several days and around.

It's wise to stick to an appropriate bedtime and wake up routine for the first weeks of school. From Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, I'm George Kovacic with Health Line. In sports Denver Broncos linebacked Bill Romanoski responded angrily Wednesday to a sports illustrated article calling allegations that he made racist remarks an absolute lie. One of his attorneys described the article as terrible baseless journalism. The magazine reported that Romanoski already under indictment on charges are fraudulently obtaining a diet drug, might have distributed drugs to teammates and suggested that a white team make take the drug as the only way to compete with black players. The unidentified team may told SI that Romanoski used the N word. Sports Illustrated spokesman Joe Assad says the magazine stands by its story. And that is the news on PowerPoint this evening. I'm Bruce Thornton. Good evening. And good

Sunday evening. Welcome to PowerPoint. We are broadcasting to you live as always from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Carmen Burns. According to an associated press survey, only about 4 percent. 4 percent of the delegates to the recent Republican National Convention describe themselves as African Americans. General Colin Powell told the gathering, the party must reach out to minority communities and particularly the African -American community and not just during an election year campaign. Why is it that the Republican party attracts so few African -American voters? What does the party have to offer people of color? Tonight on PowerPoint, we hope to answer those questions and many more. Joining us on the telephone from her home outside Philadelphia, Renee Amor, Deputy Chairman of the Pennsylvania Republican Party and the chairman of the new Majority Council in arm of the Republican Party created to encourage minority participation. Also on the telephone from Columbia, South Carolina, Professor Patrick Manie, a political historian and chair of the

History Department at the University of South Carolina. And here in our studio, Joan Ransom, assistant to the chairman and assistant to the executive director of the Georgia Republican Party, and Vincent Watkins, a political consultant for the Republican Party. What do you think about African Americans and the Republican Party, the GOP? You can join in on the discussion by calling the PowerPoint hotline. Our number just for this evening is 404 -880 -9255. That's 404 -880 -9255. We'll have the toll -free number up and running next week. Good evening to all of you and thanks for joining us on PowerPoint. Good evening. Okay, let me just direct my first questions to the whys. Why are you Republican? Joan, let's start with you. Okay, thank you, Carmen. Thank you for inviting me here. It's a pleasure to be here tonight. The reason why I am a Republican is because I believe in a Republican philosophy.

And also, in my mind, it's a two -party system. It is my right to be a Republican. I like what they're staying for. What do they stand for that attracts you so much? Less government. And I like the part about abortion because I don't believe in abortion. I like the religious aspects of it, the prayer and school. I just like what it stands for. What it stands for. I like the integrity of it. Renee? Okay, I won't get back to Renee in just a moment. Let's go with Vincent. Vincent, tell me, you weren't, you know, a lot of people are so -called born into a party, so to speak, because we generally follow what our parents have been. But you, as an adult, decided to become Republican. Your family was not. That's correct. Okay, what attracted you to the Republican Party? I guess really, I was attracted because, as I grew, I began to associate money, success, income with Republicans.

As it being raised in a democratic environment, these were, I guess, concepts and words that I wasn't really introduced to from a political perspective, understanding that Democrats were obviously very active in the community. But I, looking at my personal and professional aspirations, the Republican Party just appeared to me to be a much greater attraction, and it has proven to be so as an adult and a professional for me. Okay, Renee. Yes. Hi. How you doing? Good. Now, you are, is that a third -generation Republican, is that right? Yes, ma 'am. Now, you were born into it, so to speak, and you stuck with the party of your family. Absolutely. What was it? That's kind of unusual, isn't it? Well, that's what they're telling me. Now, what made you stick with it and what about it keeps you involved in the Republican Party? Well, the first thing, you know, I have to be real clear, thanks for having me on. The second thing is my mother was the first African -American committee person in our community, which is Delaware County, right outside of Philadelphia. And she was real clear

on her beliefs and where we were at and what we needed to be doing. And if looking at both of the parties, as we grew up and she explained it, is that the Republican Party really best fit our needs as African -Americans as far as our morals and values and our job, ethics, those type of things. And so that really stuck with me. And then she made it clear in the community when somebody ran that they had to come and have a political powwow with her to get support in the community to make sure, to make sure that we got what we needed. Okay. We have a phone call on the line right now. Let's go to Walter from Washington High Walter. Hey, peace to you. And I just really want to thank you for allowing me to address my cell out brothers and sisters. Cell out? I love you. Yeah. And I consider all of you cell outs and that first of all, let me give you from the party of Lincoln. What Lincoln actually said, if I could leave them in bondage, I would to save this union. But since I need some more cannon fodder, I'm going to free those few in those slave states to fight with

me for me. And then I'm going to turn them back into segregation, Jim Crowism and the rest of this. Now, speaking of your participation, what if any contribution did you make to the Republican platform? I dare say nothing. Then I ask you a second question. What can we answer or you just want to keep going? Well, I want to get, look, this is, I'm paying for my call. You on a freebie. Please. I want to ask you a second question. How dare you suggest that corporate welfare is more of a American plus than social welfare? And the last thought I would beg you three cell outs to explain is when the hell did affirmative action? A Republican phenomenon become a quota. Okay, Walter. Thanks so much. Go ahead, Renee. Your turn. Let me just say first, what, I hear what you say with Lincoln did, but what did the Democrats do? I think we have to understand our history and how the Democrats need one

of us in the party. That's number one. Number two, there was quite a few of people of color in the platform committee. And so we did participate in that and also the program for, as the deputy chair of Republican State Party and is one of the officers of the Republican National Committee. There was, there was a lot of participation. JC, why it's cold and pound like it could go on and on. Which shows that the party is working towards and we're not perfect as far as the whole diversity piece. As far as the affirmative action, to me, with affirmative action, mostly white women benefited, I'm a small business woman and it really has not helped me. And I do have an issue to be quoted, but there's something we can look at to really improve the whole affirmative action piece. Okay. Professor Manning, let me draw you into this just a little bit. Was Walter correct on his history? Well, certainly, Lincoln did not stand for equal rights for African Americans, but he certainly was in the vanguard opposed to slavery. And, but I think, you know, I mean, I'd more

like to respond to the other comments that were made. Go ahead. I think the reason that 80 % of African Americans now identify with the Democratic Party really goes back to the 1960s when the Democrats led in the battle for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, I think that's when you really see the commitment of African Americans to the Democratic Party. And in terms of the, you know, the Republican Party in some ways through the, you know, I don't want to sound overly partisan about this, but the party of Lincoln really hasn't been the party of Lincoln since reconstruction in the decades following the Civil War in the sense that that Civil Rights was the central part of the agenda. Okay. Vincent, go ahead. Well, I think that regarding Walter's comments that he's obviously a misinformed brother. I think that a lot of the comments he has made is really a lot of, as a result of a lot of

hype and a lot of media hype, I guess, and miscommunication. Personally, one of the things that I certainly advocate with reference to the Republican Party is that Republican Party for Black people represents perhaps something different than it does for white people, while the principles of the party is relates to less government, less taxation, more of a religious background indoctrination in terms of our community and family values. I think it's our principles that we hold very close and dear to us in the Black community. When it comes to affirmative action, personally, I am one that believe that we have to acknowledge that affirmative action for Black people or people of color has certainly been a very instrumental instrumental component of our lives. So there's no way a person can be an African -American and Black in my appreciation and, excuse me, I'm Republican and disavow the affirmative action. However, I do think that there are some things that we need to adjust with the affirmative action. All Republicans do not walk alike, talk alike, or look

alike, whether you're Black or whether you're White, Walter, in his comments regarding President Lincoln, President Lincoln has nothing to do with my being a Republican. When I look at many of the things that happen in our community today, when I look at the answers that are being asserted, I as a person who earned money, I've been in business for myself all my life since I was in high school, I am very concerned about my taxes and how they're spent. And while I do not want in any way facilitate any corrupt or any dependency on the government, I do recognize the government has responsibilities. But more importantly, I want to see my tax dollars put to good use. And good use means putting in a building and infrastructure that will allow us to excel beyond the dependency or level of dependency. And right now we're working with people in the Black community who are still struggling. We do research on a continuous basis and we see that many Blacks are first generation bankers. Many Blacks are still in middle management positions in the

work environment. Many Blacks who have businesses and who were very independent, if you will, at one point of time, under Democratic leadership has to some degree had to remove themselves from the self -employment roles and then join the workforce. So I think that we certainly have to acknowledge that there are some strong possibilities and some strong arguments that can be made for the Republican mindset and mentality. This is not however to say that everyone who's a Republican has been right. Okay, let's go to Michael from Virginia. Hi Michael, thanks for calling. How are you doing? Great. What's your question? I don't understand Black people who could buy into the Republican Party's philosophy that presents George W. Bush as a viable candidate for the president. The man is mentally unqualified. He's just a puppet for his father and the Republican hierarchy. The Republican Party has always represented the ruling class and has never had any pretense. There's no pretense

of representing working class and poor people. They just have just started that lately, once they realized they needed some of the poor and the lower class, they simply represent the ruling class, white ruling class, nobody else. And I don't see anything that they offer. I would love to dump the Democrats and go to another party. If another party presented itself that they were working for the best inches of working class and poor people, but the Republicans are just two racists in the pocket of the wealthy, I just can't see it. So you're basically going to settle for the lesser of two evils? Yes. Oh, comment. Please go ahead. Please, Matt. Go ahead. People are always saying that the Republicans represent the rich. Well, I don't know of any poor person that can hire anybody. So it is the issue, sir. That's what you're saying. And let's not forget about that. That helps people. They said policies from the government that helps empower people.

Poor people, of course, are not going to hire anybody, but they could set a policy that will engage poor people to help themselves and start their own companies, what they're not doing. They talk a good game on that, but they simply don't do it. What do you mean? I would join the Republicans if I actually thought that they were about the business of helping poor people. They're about the business aligning the pockets of the wealthy at the expense of poor people. No, sir. That's not true. Absolutely true. No, I disagree without money, sir, we are powerless, anyway, without money. Without industry, we are powerless, right? So if they're not having, if taxes are not less, less, sir, yes, sir, taxes are not enough. Well, sir, the Democrats have been in power. You need to look at them. Why don't you ask them? They are, sir, since we vote 90 percent

on the unions, which is a tax on the poor working class, why don't we start it back from day one? Okay, Michael, thanks so much. Okay, go ahead. I appreciate it. I know exactly where you're going. Thanks so much for your phone call. But John, give us some examples of what you're talking about when you say that it's not about, you know, the rich are not lining their pockets with the work of the poor. When you say they're not doing that, what have the Republicans done to benefit poor people? Well, I really don't know how to answer that comment. My statement was poor people cannot hire anybody. So, you know, people keep calling about, you know, Republicans are just for the rich, they're for big corporations. But my thing, if somebody is not for the rich, not for large corporations, we would not have a job. Well, don't let me also add that. I think when we start looking at the Republican administrations, that we look at the unemployment race, we look at interest rates, we look at the

healthiness of the environment overall. And under Republican leadership, I think we certainly see a greater environment and more thriving environment, economically, which creates opportunities for more jobs to be given to people of all levels on all races. We also look at more opportunities for people to get loans. I mean, certainly the small business administration has done some very powerful work on the Republican administration. As a matter of fact, my name is Bob Wright, who was based, who originally came from right here in Georgia, from Columbus, Georgia, a strong Republican under the Nixon administration, was able to do some tremendous things in terms of facilitating small black businesses, and small businesses that were black. And I think again, we're missing the point that we have to understand that the Republican party is made up of people who volunteer to be a part of the party. The gentlemen that are calling could actually come into the Republican party and change the entire

direction. One of the most, I think, one of the most important things that I recognize is when David Duke, who is no question of a clansman of races, decided about eight years ago that he was just going to be a Republican. Now Ronald Reagan tried to keep him out on the number of other Republicans trying to keep him away from the table, but they couldn't. Because the Republican party is not a membership or an application party, if all the black people who are listening to this show said that we're going to be Republican, there's nothing Republicans could do. And if they then, they themselves decided that they wanted to change the policy of Republican party, they would have that opportunity. We have to understand that political parties are in place for one sole purpose, and that is to advance the interest of a particular group of people. Race in and of itself is not the determining factor, should not be the determining factor which black people align themselves with any party because we are a minority if you look at us based upon race. One of the problems we have is if we're going to associate ourselves with someone, we need to associate with a group on another level whether it's economics,

whether it's education, but we need to pick a variable or a denominator other than race because we are a minority in terms of race. For many black people, we do interviews on college campuses, they want money, they want to own their own businesses, they want job. If you then say which of the parties do you feel most comfortable or most likely to help you get to that point, most people will say Republicans. The problem with the Republican persona is that unfortunately, most often describe them as rich, influential, and businesses, but they always say white. That's the only thing that we don't identify with that they're white, but everything else we seem to identify with and we want a part of that. Go ahead, go ahead, Professor Mane, go ahead. Yeah, I just want to point out that one of the reasons I think that there's such a lower overwhelming number of African Americans supporting the Democratic Party today is that we're just getting off an incredible economic boom from which African Americans have really

benefited not as much as we would all would hope, but certainly they had benefited to an extent they haven't in many decades. So, lack on employment is down from something like 15 % to 1992 to 80%, the poverty level is down. So, it sounds like we're talking in a vacuum here without any reference to the current economic conditions. This has been a good time for African Americans, again, just to start. It's been a better time for white Americans. Exactly. I think a lot of African Americans are identifying the Democratic Party now with a party of economic opportunity. And I think the reason why that happens too is that people really don't understand government one and two perceptions reality where people have put a spin in particular to media on Republicans being all rich white men in particular. And I think that we have to understand that that happens and that's a part of the game. A lot of times it comes from the liberal media and we need to understand that. But as far as going

back to the gentleman's questions a while ago and just adding to what the two folks have just said, it's about economic development, but also education. If our kids aren't educated, then they're not, I can't hire them. And neither can the other gentlemen on the phone as a business person. And what has happened is that if you look at all the Republican governors, they have initiated the whole piece around education. And people think just because Clinton is the president that it came from him. And so that's what we need to understand and teach and educate folks on what really is taking place. Okay, Renee. Let me go to Barry in Houston. Barry. Good evening. Good evening, Carmen. Thanks for calling. What's your question? I'll come to support my Republican comrade after getting beat up tonight. Thank you, Barry. I want you all to stay strong. Let me do a little history to refute your first call. It was the Republican Party that passed the Civil Rights Bill in 1871. In 1872, that was a black channel, the Republican National Committee. We had our first black governor, Mr. Pinchback from Louisiana, who's also a Republican. There's President Nixon that

came up with the construction to set the size to get my orders and construction, and President Ford came up with the task quake for the poor. So who was on the side of the poor and the rights? And I think that the reason that we do need to support the Republican Party, because high taxes are the worst kind of oppression. What high taxes are saying is no matter how much education I get, no matter how many information I get, I'm still going to be taxed at a higher rate. I think the idea of vouchers to get kids out of these failing public schools is also a very good thing. So I don't think it may very well be our fault for not getting the word out that these are Republican ideas. Now, the Democrats have had the tendency to take credit, but like I remember, our goal is to mention our welfare reform, excuse me, it was not our welfare. We're Republican parties, welfare packages, that he rejected twice, and finally signed on a third time. All right, Barry. Listen, it's good to hear from you. Thanks so much for calling, and we'll continue with more in a moment. Stay tuned to this public radio station. Give us a call. Our number is 404 -880 -9255, more PowerPoint in a moment.

And welcome back to

PowerPoint. We'd like to take this opportunity to welcome our newest affiliate, W -E -S -M -F -M, in Princess Anne Maryland, a broadcast service of the University of Maryland, Eastern Shore. Thanks to Marvel Love It and the staff of W -E -S -M, and welcome to all the listeners joining us from Princess Anne Maryland. We're talking about African Americans and the Republican Party. Our phone number, if you'd like to get in on the conversation, and has been quite the lively one, 404 -880 -9255, that's 404 -880 -9255. And next week, we hope to have our toll -free line in full operation, but it's a good conversation. Tonight, we are joined by Vincent Watkins, a consultant for the Republican Party. Renee Amor, Deputy Chairman of the Pennsylvania Republican Party and Chairman of the new Majority Council, an arm of the GOP, encouraged to encourage minority participation, Professor Patrick Manie, a political historian, and Chair of the History Department at the University of South Carolina,

and Joan Ransom, Assistant to the Chairman and Assistant to the Executive Director of the Georgia Republican Party. Professor Manie, we were talking a little bit earlier about the fact that, well, it is the fact that the majority of blacks and Hispanics are registered, maybe not registered Democratic, but they vote Democratic, and they have not hidden the fact at all that they just don't trust the Republican Party. Why is that? Well, I think at least since the 1960s that there is a sense that Republicans, when they get desperate and a crunch will play the race card, I mean, starting with very gold water in 1964, and Richard Nixon with the Southern Strategy in 1969, with President Bush when he was running for office in 1988 with the Willie Horton ads, and I think most recently in my state, South Carolina, with a flag issue during the Republican primary, when

Governor Bush came here and refused to have any comment on the flag, and then also spoke at Bob Jones University. So, when things are going well, peace and harmony prevails, but I think that many African Americans are just suspicious of the Republican Party because of the tendency to play the race card. And I have to add that I thought the tone of the Republican Convention was a really welcome relief from the past. This was very admirable, and I think the effort to reach out to African Americans and minorities was good for the Republican Party, good for African Americans and good for the country, but I mean, I think the Republicans have a lot of history to overcome, and I think that a lot of the people you've been talking to tonight are just sort of spurting over that history. Now, I saw quite

a few of the times that I tuned in to the Republican Convention. I saw more Black people paraded around than I had ever ever seen before at a Republican Convention at any rate, but I mean, you know, it's almost like it was to a point over kill like, hey, look at us, we have Black people, and here they are, we're parading everybody out there. I mean, I talked to quite a few people who felt pretty much the same way. Well, you know, I heard a lot of comments about that, but I also have to acknowledge I think that had there not been any Black people, or if it had been as it has been in the past, then we would have heard comments, and people would have talked about how it's the same thing. Look at the Convention, there was nobody there. I think the truth in matter is that, and this is one of the things that we work with a lot, Black people are very much interested in the Republican Party. The Republican Party has dropped the ball considerably, and perhaps not even in at the stadium in terms of playing in the game. But Vincent, what's to say that they're not going to drop the ball again? Well, they may, but I

think that we get hard to tell. I mean, again, there's just a lot of history to overcome, and one hope that this is the beginning of a new chapter in the relationship between the Republican Party and African Americans, but one simply, you know, can understand why the vast majority of African Americans and others, too, would be a little bit skeptical, it's going to be more than a couple of conventions, speeches. Professor, one of the things that, you know, when the, as you were speaking, I'm wondering why is it, then, if we can be so critical of Blacks, and not to say that you are, but if we can be so critical of Blacks that are in the Republican Party, and question is, I'm wondering why are all the Black people who are so independent and for civil rights? Why are they still living in South Carolina and Georgia and Alabama? Places that clearly, if you look at their estate flags are not very favorable, do not, that smile very favorably, look very favorably on Black people because of this, this historical relic of slavery and of the past,

we don't see people being encouraged to pack up and leave South Carolina and move to Philadelphia, move to New York where they don't fly an American, I mean, a rebel flag. And I think one of the things that, I don't think they should leave either, but my point is, is when Republicans are in the White House and in control and in Congress, if there are no Blacks in the Republican Party at all, then I certainly don't think Republicans or any of us Black people should have any reasonable expectation to receive anything. The one thing that I can say is that in what we're trying to accomplish here is we certainly want more Blacks to be in the party. We certainly want more Blacks to come in and be a part of writing the platform and be a part of contributing to that, but we have to understand that there is going to be a few that start off and then more people will come. This is not to say that the Democratic Party and for those people who live in the South, we certainly know that under Democratic leadership, we have been killed, we have been lynched, we have been imprisoned falsely, and we are still being mistreated with Democratic Governors. I mean, Lester Maddox perhaps wanted the most notorious, if you will,

in the South in terms of his racist rule. And I'm sure that we certainly can all identify others, but these were Democrats that have also established in the back, taking our money, taking our land. So it's not an issue of party. You have racist people and they are Republicans, they are Democrat, they are independent, they are even in the reform party. Are you saying that if Blacks, maybe I misheard you, but if Blacks don't join the Republican Party, they shouldn't expect anything from the Republican administration. I am saying that Black people will have no, I am saying that in a qualified sense. I'm saying that if we are not at the table, if we have said to the Republican Party, we're not going to support you, we're not going to do anything to help you, we're not going to be there. I don't know how they can expect Republicans to want to come in and give them anything. And my point is, if we want to get something from the party, we expect to get something from the party. We've got to show up at the table. Exactly. I mean, we can't just sit out and say, well, I'm not going to vote for you, George Bush, and then

expect not George Bush, because once he's elected to a public office, he's responsible and accountable to all people. But the Republican Party has, it's a business. It has money and it has funds. Why spend $100 ,000 in a community that try to keep you from getting in office to begin with? I don't see that. I don't think that's a reasonable expectation. Well, I think because it's the United States. No. And we're all citizens. Okay. The party now. Let me go to Don. Right. Let me go to Don and Baltimore. Hey, Don. Yeah. I think, first of all, I think the Republican Party, frankly, George Bush will not be elected president. Our goal is going to be the next president. I think. Why do you think so? Well, first of all, I think George Bush is unqualified to be president in the United States. That's the first thing. And second, I think, George is much better prepared. Intellectually, I just don't think Bush has the intellectual capacity to be president, meaning, bluntly, he doesn't have the brains to understand the complex procedures of such things as budgeting, finance, international relations. This man who's

running for president is only there because of his privileged background, but I don't want to get into that. I heard a comment tonight about taxes. I'd like to remind you of yours that the National Institutes of Health, I had a grandmother who lived to be 100 years old. She lived because taxes were invested through public investments in such things as hot research, diabetes research, hypertension research, spinal cord research, spinal bivya research, not only that, all of the major diseases. Not only that, Republicans had this hatred of government started with the dummy Ronald Wilson Reagan in 1980 of the federal government's todays of Hamilton as facilitated the economic growth of this nation. You don't have to believe me. Go back and read Hamilton's plan with Manufacton 1787. Go back and read the Department of Agriculture during the 1866, which revolutionized itself. Go back and look at the defense, advanced research, project agency, DARPA, which created every single technological development. Contrary to Republican propaganda, it was a federal government department defense, Republicans and Colin Powell criticized them right. They talk about

affirmative action, but they love the tax system up with provinces. John McCain, a Republican, who I think frankly will be the next candidate. Bush will lose and McCain will be the candidate for Republicans. Had the Republicans run McCain, he would have been the next president, but Bush is totally incompetent, totally unqualified. The only reason he's run for president is because his daddy's name is George Bush. All right. Well, let me say one thing that I wonder when we talk, and I'm not at Ronald Reagan cheerly to, but let me say that, Ronald Reagan was a Democrat before his Republican, so was he trained to be stupid if you, if that's your perspective in the Democratic Party, and then came to the Republican Party because a lot of the people who are today Republicans were, in fact, Democrat before they made their money. But let me also say that a person's qualifications, while it should have a lot to do with their being elected, has very little to do in the year of 2000 with anyone being elected to office. And I certainly don't think that because George Bush and this gentleman's appreciation is not very intelligent, I don't think, unfortunately, that's going to

qualify him or disqualify him as being a viable candidate. The reality that we're looking at is that once we have someone in office, we have to all look at our situation, personal situations, and determine the person who's in office, is this person going to help me further or improve my life, and that of my family and my children's children, or is this person going to hurt me? For many of us, particularly in the black community today, many of us, I think, will identify particularly doctors, Steve Forbes, we went out to Las Vegas last year with Steve Forbes talking to the National Medical Association. These gentlemen and ladies and gentlemen were very impressed with what Steve Forbes had to say because they make six and seven figure salaries, and they're interested in how this money is spending used. I can certainly appreciate a person who, on the other hand, at the other end of the spectrum who perhaps does not like what Republicans are saying because their financial situation or their goals or their ambition or motivation is different. But there are two sides to this coin. Okay. Our phone number is

40488092554048809255. Let's go to Francis from Atlanta. Hi, Francis. Hi. How are you doing? Great. I'm so happy that that last person speaking mentioned doctors because the other thing I didn't say that I am a doctor too, and an African -American, and let me tell you something, that Republicans have done nothing positive for African -Americans. I don't know how you guys could fit there and try to get people to join that party. Okay. The bottom line is, yes, I make a six figure salary, but because of President Reagan and a lot of low -interest loans that he got rid of and a lot of photo systems that were enacted in the early 80s, minorities cannot afford to get into the college that I went to. Cannot afford to go to the medical school I went to. Cannot afford to get the training that I received, and that makes me very unhappy. Okay. The Republicans are not trying to build up inner -city schools. Okay. Now, Francis, let me ask

you this. A lot of doctors, physicians who are already established, are anti -democrat because they feel like socialized medicine is just one step away from becoming a reality. You know, that's not really the case. I mean, if you want to, you know, that's a stereotype that people want to throw out there they can. But, you know, it's not socialized medicine. A lot of us were not wealthy before we entered our medical training. And we know what it's like. We have friends who are struggling, you know. We have friends that are still trying to live day -to -day and it's hard for them, you know. So, if that's a stereotype. Okay. Francis, thanks so much for your phone call. Let's go to Dexter. Hi, Dexter. Dexter, are you with me? Yes, I am. Good evening. What's your question or comment? My comment is just simply that I don't necessarily, I am an African -American. I don't necessarily label myself Democrat or Republican. However, I have happened to be a member of the Republican Party here in Georgia.

I don't think either party has necessarily represented us fairly. And each party, I think, are trying to... They have different answers to some of the same questions. For the Democrats, it's government, for the Republican, the answer is business, and putting government back into the hands of the people. That's why I'm a Republican because if it's back in the hands of the people, then I have a say, and then I can sit at the table to help make the seasons, and not someone in Washington. And that middle ground, I think, is probably the difference between... That's where we got to take up the slack, between government and the hands of business people, and also in the hands of just regular people. If it's in the hands of government, then I don't get to sit at the table, and that's not good for my perspective. All right, Dexter. Thanks so much. Renee, we haven't heard from you for a little bit. Go ahead. Listen, well, you know, basically there's a couple things I wanted to interject in. Going back, when you were saying that a lot of folks were lining up folks at our convention, and I think that this was right on target when he said that folks would have said that we didn't

have people of color, but that's what the new majority council has been doing for the last three years. But this wasn't something that was just made up and happened at that particular time. And I think it's important to address that the Republican Party is not perfect, but if we're not on both sides of the aisle, then these issues won't be addressed, and we don't have a seat at the table. We can't bring issues to the table for African -American, such as medical issues that the doctor was talking about. I'm in health care management, as far as one of my companies, and I understand it here what she says, but again, if we're not there, then we can't really help work and plan different things. I think the opposite, when the gentleman said that, Gour will be the president or whatever. I feel strongly that Bush will, because people want to change, they're looking for empowerment, they're looking for self -reliance, those type of things, and I think that's what we bring to the table. And again, perception's reality, and it's about us going out and educating people to let them know. Okay. Let's go to Dr. Wright from Houston. Good evening. Hello. Hi. I just have a couple of comments. Go ahead. I've observed during the course of the conversations that it was

repeated times that once you make your money, you can't become a Republican. I said that's also a strong financial bias to the Republican Party. And as a physician and as a Christian, I would beg to differ that one should use finances as a way of dictating how you're going to govern people. And that's, I think, what goes along with the Democratic background. And that's for most, for a majority of African Americans who may not be at financially stable or secure as other Republican Party members, what would it be, what attraction as a Republican Party have to attract those who may not be at financially stable, quote unquote as those in Republican Party? And why would you go against an already established gradient unless the Democratic Party just tends to go for non -financial stable individuals? What would attract someone of the group into the Republican Party? Good question. Thank you, Dr. Wright, for your phone call. John, do you want to take that? Well, I really want to get back to something, would. Good, John, before you let me just say that

to her. I think that regarding attraction is that while money is not the only attraction, I certainly think that people will be attracted to the Republican Party because it does provide a foundation for them to, if you will, improve their family. I mean, we're looking at prayer and schools. We're looking at educational issues and terms of choice, our vouchers. We're looking at opportunities and voucher programs for school care and, excuse me, daycare in which Republicans have long since had an interest in being able to provide vouchers for parents and families to take money and aside from putting them in certain public places, actually pay relatives to take care of their children, keeping those monies in the community. So, you know, when you have the lady in the community that, in fact, can take care of your children, you can actually pay her with various programs. I think also when we look at just principles and values that are in place, that the Republican Party has been very

strong in its allegiance to trying to preserve those values that many of us black people have been raised with. And let me also say that this is not to say that if you are a black person and you become a Republican, that you must agree with every single solitary thing that every Republican says. But I think when we look at the current president and the display that he has put on for us in terms of morals, in terms of his commitment, and when we look at various liberal programs like the National Endowment for the Arts and how monies are expended in these programs, I think we certainly have to take an account and determine for ourselves whether or not this is what we want our children to follow. And Republicans really give us a better opportunity. Okay. Hang on with me, Dorian and Aaron. We're going to continue and just a moment we'll take your phone calls coming up on the next PowerPoint. And just a moment, you'll hear from Martin Luther King III and the Reverend Al Sharpton as the redeemed the dream march on Washington draws closer. We're back in a moment. All

right. And welcome back to PowerPoint

as we're wrapping up our very lively discussion about African Americans and the Republican Party. Let's go to Aaron. Hi, hello. Good evening. I just wanted to say that, first of all, I'm like a lot of colors. I'm not particularly angry with black people who want to vote Republican. I mean, it is a two -party system and I think it's great when black people show that we don't all think alike. Well, you know what? Why is it that black people get so angry? I mean, it really get vehement. I think that, and I do want to make some comments that I'll try to respond to that. I think that it's all a holdover from the 60s when we really needed this collective movement. And I think that it's a holdover. And now it's just turned into this monolith where, you know, a lot of people from the generation I'm growing up in or that I, well, I'm growing up. So the generation that I belong to now expects, you know, everybody's got to listen to a certain kind of music where certain kinds of clothes and do all these things. And vote Democrat. Okay, go ahead. Where are you coming from? Well, what I wanted to say was, wow, I'm not angry with him. I'm one of those people who tends to always vote

Democrat. And the reason is, because as long as, to me, the Republican Party still has a lot of racist baggage, and that's simply because people like Jesse Helms, Strom Thurman, Pat Buchan, and David Duke, these people always find a home in that party and there's a reason they turn to it. Also, I live in a state, South Carolina, where the Republican wing of our government is used as a bunch of the state's resources as they could to fight a battle to fly a flag on our state capital, which pretty much represents the exact opposite of democracy as we know it. And I can't join a party, which, you know, has that sort of the value system, is that value system. And I mean, that's basically all I have to say. Okay. Your comments are well taken. Thank you so much, Aaron. Let's go to Dorian. And Atlanta. Hey, Dorian. Good evening. Hey, Dorian. I just had a comment and then a question. Okay. I think it's for too long that African -Americans, we go royal to things and stay there.

Like, the difference between us and usually white folks is in our communities. White folks usually are transitional at home. We buy homes for the long haul. The same thing with the Democratic Party. We always just call straight parties. And really don't consider it issues. My tendencies tend to be more towards Republican. But in elections, I vote sometimes for a Democrat. I vote for a Republican. And the cap election this year, I voted Democrat. But it just depends on what the issue is at the time. The one of the main reasons I can't support for is because of what he wants to do with the social security program. While linking the income taxes to the social security. I mean, at the point when he does that, then they can raise income taxes any time. And when does it stop? What percentage of my question to the Democrats would be, what percentage of our income does it stop that? Does it stop that 50, 60? What percentage does it stop that? And the other question I wanted to post to the gentleman

is how do we educate our people and to get up for it whole? Because just voting for people doesn't give us a face -off. I know, for example, to get politicians' attention, even if you just give $25 a day, when you make a phone call, they listen to you. And I think without us supporting candidates at that type of level, even when they get in, whether a Republican or a Democrat, we won't have any face -off. Okay, thank you so much for your phone call. Dorena, I appreciate that. Let's Renee, do you want to talk about this? I think I'm familiar with you. And I'm having a hard time hearing people, so a lot of times I can't respond. Well, let me just add, I think the caller makes an excellent point. We tend to hold Dorena and get touchy -feely and getting to a whole thing as far as trust and relationship. And what happens is, I'll be honest, Democrats have done an excellent job on getting folks of color to believe and trust in them. They show folks of all different colors on stadiums and podiums, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, those good things. We haven't done a good job at doing that, and we need to do better. But we have started locally, like I said, with these grassroots initiatives to go out to local government, state, and national government,

just to really educate people and let them know. We go knocking on doors now, and we'll continue to do that. Again, it's not 100%. But I'm sure we're going to get to the point where we make a difference and people start seeing and understanding on our values and where they are as far as family and spiritual issues and education issues, economic development. We're going to, we're going to really continue to do that. The convention was just to let people know where we are and where we're going as far as I'm concerned. Professor Manning, do you think that the Republican Party needs to educate itself as to what minorities need? Or do you think they have a handle on that? Well, again, I think the most of your other participants are just kind of ignoring the history of the Republican Party. And I think the most African Americans view the Democratic Party as the party that has provided most top opportunities for African Americans in recent decades, and they're skeptical of the Democrats. They would like a two -party system. They would like some competition, but it just hasn't happened. So I think it's more than a matter of

image in education. I think there's some real substantial differences between the parties. And that's, I think, in that ways against the Republican Party. Now, again, I take your, you know, your other participants that there were this, maybe the beginning of a new chapter in the history of the Republican Party. But I think most people are going to be a little skeptical until they see something more than a couple of inventions features. Now, we can talk about that. And you're absolutely right. We do have to educate within, and that's what we've also been doing. The African American folks and Hispanics, and I go on and on, have to keep meeting with leadership to say who we are and what we're about and what our needs are, and how they can help meet our needs. JC Watson, all -elected African American officials in the Republican Party, came together doing that convention to meet with our leadership to say what we need and how we're going to go about it. What type of strategic plan do we have? So those things are in place, because we know that we need to do it. And we know as people's color, we're the majority. Okay,

Renee, I hate to interrupt. Let me go ahead and get Joan, because I want to get one more quick call and go ahead, Joan. Okay. I just want to make a comment on why the Republicans ignore African Americans. They don't, first of all, they don't get to vote. And they do what they call an orborist rating. And the orborist rating is the percentage of blacks voting Democrats against blacks voting Republican. When they look at the number of blacks voting Democrats for the Democratic Party, they just totally feel as though they cannot get the black vote. So they just ignore it. They ignore it. And the Democrats take us as blacks for granted because they know that they're going to get our vote. Let's not forget the history of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party was organized to keep us in slavery. We tend to forget that. We need to just truly think about why they were organized. The Republican Party was organized to stop slavery. And I know I probably get slaughtered for saying that, but I said it. All right. Listen. You said it on that fiery note. I guess

we're going to have to. Don, thank you for holding for me. And I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to get to your phone call. Professor Mani, Renee, Pamor, and Philadelphia. Thank you. Joan. Thank you all so much for being with us. And thank you all for listening to PowerPoint. Thank you all so much for listening to PowerPoint. Thank you all so much.

Thank you. Thank you all so much. Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for

Public Broadcasting and by the National Legacy Foundation, a nonprofit organization committed to enhancing, preserving, and restoring the legacy and history of life in America. This is PowerPoint, an information age clearinghouse for news, issues, and ideas that impact the African -American community, the nation, and the world. Good evening and welcome to PowerPoint, broadcasting live from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Carmen Burns. Can you identify the physical description of a criminal? How about a shoplifter? Perhaps sagging, baggy pants, a baseball cap turned backwards or even braided hair? Maybe it's someone listening to Kid Rock or rapper Eminem. Sound judgmental and unfair? Of course. But what happens when suspicion of criminal behavior is based purely on the look, which includes the most obvious attribute, race?

It's called racial profiling, and organizers of next Saturday's Redeem the Dream March say, enough is enough. It's time for an executive order against racial profiling. Next on PowerPoint, guilty by color, stopping racial profiling. But first, to the PowerPoint news desk for a wrap -up of this week's news. With news and information to empower the community, this is PowerPoint Good evening. I'm Bruce Dorton. Reinforcements are on the way to battle the Western Wall Fire, as the Army says, about 500 soldiers have been called up from the 101st Airborne Division at Fort Campbell, Kentucky to help out in Montana, where some of the biggest fires are burning. That bumps the Army's numbers on the fire lines to more than 1 ,600. Montana's governor says a Marine battalion from Camp Les Yun, North Carolina will also be joining the effort. The help is needed.

Forecastes are predicting windy weather in the foothills of the Rockies, which could undo days of work by the fire crews. Twenty -seven major fires are ablaze in Montana, having black and nilia, quarter million acres of wilderness in the Bitterroot Valley alone. The fires have destroyed 175 homes and other buildings since late July. Well, Al Gore continued his post -convention and riverboat tour today. Yesterday, the Democratic presidential nominee kicked off two days of campaigning in Iowa, holding several rallies along the Mississippi River. His voice still raspy from a week filled with convention events. Gore pushed his populous agenda, promising to help working families protect the environment and support the nation's elderly. The Gore also celebrated. The Tipper Gore's 52nd birthday before several thousand supporters in Clinton, Iowa. The couple danced in a shower of confetti as a local band covered Stevie Ray Vaughan's pride and joy. Gore's

running mate, Senator Joseph Lieberman, will rejoin the vice president later. Lieberman was observing the Jewish Sabbath yesterday. Meanwhile, it's a day arrest for George W. Bush, the GOP presidential candidate, is scheduled to resume campaigning tomorrow with stops in Milwaukee and Des Moines, Iowa. Bush plans to continue stressing his education agenda, and when he gets back on the stump, he'll be backstopped by a new advertising blitz. The ads, which begin airing in 21 states today, stick closely to Bush's convention pledge to renew the promise of America's public schools. Bush spokesman says the airtime purchased for the 32nd spots at the largest so far off of the campaign. The ads will be timed mainly to coincide with visits by Bush, or is running mate Dick Cheney, Bush and Cheney either together or separately, will visit 19 states by the end of August. They include 16 states carried by President Clinton in 1966. Well, denied a chance to address the Republican convention, NAACP

president Quasim Fumis stood on a Democrat's podium Thursday and praised Al Gore and Joseph Lieberman for having listened and responded and stood with us on issues such as hate crimes, health care, and racial equality. Before taking over the NAACP, M Fumis was a Democratic congressman from Maryland and headed the Congressional Black Caucus, addressing himself to Republican presidential nominee George W. Bush. M Fumis said, Mr. Bush, wherever you might be, please know that although I've never been a cowboy, now what I know what it's like to be ambushed and bushwacked. He praised Gore and Lieberman, both of them understand that we so desperately need men and women who will stand up and speak out for that which is right and to fight back against that which is wrong, and for me said. Ford is investigating whether inflation guidelines for its explorer's sports utility vehicle might have contributed to failures in firestone tires now under recall. The Washington Post reports that a 1989 stability test showed that an explorer with fully inflated tires was more likely to roll when

making sudden turns. Afterward, Ford instructed explorer owners to keep the ATX and wilderness tires under inflated for most ability. Tom Bowman is Ford's leading investigator in the firestone recall. He says Ford wants to know if the lower recommended pressure and the tire failures. Bowman says Ford now has a team at Illinois plant where many of the tires were produced, trying to understand the root cause of the problem. Six and a half million tires are being recalled after complaints that the tread sometimes separated from the tires at high speeds. The tires are being investigated in accidents that caused 62 deaths. Six African countries involved in the Civil War of the Democratic Republic of the Congo have agreed to appoint a new facilitator for the DRC's internal political dialogue contrary to an official communique which restated the leader's support for Botswana's former president, Masiri. Congo president Lauren Kabia has been scathing of Masiri who was appointed by the organization of African unity as facilitator of the DRC's internal

political settlement because he accuses him of bias in acting like a colonial governor. Inside us to this week's marathon summit of southern and eastern African leaders in Lusaka said a breakthrough on who should lead the Congo's internal political dialogue emerged only after President Robert Mugabe on happy with the slow progress of the meeting asked for private talks among the belligerent countries in the DRC. The six countries involved in the DRC war, Rwanda, Uganda, Angola, Namibia, Zimbabwe, and the DRC agreed to seek a deputy for Masiri and the search is now on for the best candidate diplomatic sources of told the financial Gazette. And now a brief preview of a public radio program that may soon be coming to a radio station near you, it is called the Travelling Dockeries and it's a story of brothers and the open road. The Travelling Dockeries is produced by Kate Porshariati.

This is a story about one African American family and its travels. It's also about what most Americans take for granted, the freedom to move around, and how the brothers of one family, the Dockeries of Philadelphia, forged into new territory at first without even realizing it. I spoke with all three brothers, the eldest, my stepfather's inner Dockery who is now almost 70 and is two younger brothers Ronald and Jackie. To picture Jackie, the youngest, imagine Jimmy Hendrix about 25 years later. My name is Dwight Dockery, my family calls me Jackie and the job area is Dock, it depends on where you know me from. Like Jackie, Ronald's Afro was also flexed with white hair now, but both seemed never to have given

up the idealism and openness that they embraced in the 1960s. But we will begin this story much earlier. The name of the program, the Travelling Dockeries, a story of brothers and the open road. That's our entertainment segment tonight on PowerPoint. The program is produced by Kate Porshariati. And that is the news on PowerPoint this evening. I'm Bruce Dorton. Good evening. And welcome back to PowerPoint, I'm Carmen Burns. 37

years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D .C., Martin Luther King Jr. said, The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundation of the nation until the bright day of justice emerges. Well, justice has not totally emerged and as the new millennium comes in, the nation's oldest problem is still quite prevalent. We're talking about racism. This time, racial profiling is the focus as the redeem the dream March takes place this Saturday in the nation's capital, guilty by color, putting an end to racial profiling. Tonight on PowerPoint, that is our subject. And our guests are well -known human rights activists and organizers of the redeem the dream March on Washington. And just a little while, we'll be joined from Washington, D .C., by a CLC president, Martin Luther King III. And from New York, the Reverend L. Sharpton. And joining us right now from New York is Mr. Kenneth Makes, author of Driving, Wild, Black, and Managing Editor of Black Enterprise

Magazine. And as always, we invite you to join in on the discussion. Our number just for this week only is 404 -880 -9255. That's 404 -880 -9255, Mr. Makes. Good evening. How are you? I'm doing fine. Thank you for inviting me. Sorry about the little extraneous noise. Thanks for being with us. Yeah, I'm doing fine. Thanks for inviting me. I'm having a little audio trouble, but I can barely make out what you're doing, what you're saying. Okay, we're talking about, first of all, your book, Driving, Wild, Black. Yes. Now, tell us in the simplest form, what is racial profiling? Well, you know, there are several definitions of racial profiling. I think that with regards to the national debate, racial profiling tends to be law enforcement officers picking and subjecting drivers of color and targeting drivers of color for, you know, stopping and questioning and giving out tickets, et cetera, et cetera.

That's one school of thought. However, for the purposes of Driving, Wild, Black, my book, I define racial profiling to be beyond that because we can go into a department store and go to buy an item with a credit card and be a victim of racial profiling. And in that case, no law enforcement officer was involved. So it's basically looking at a person of color and making all of these types of stereotypes, judgements based on just the color of this person's skin. Now, I was just reading in your book the story when you talk about department stores, the story of Christopher Thomas, who went into a department store or a shoe store just to buy a pair of shoes. Tell us, go ahead, finish telling a story. You know, that was just a real simple story of someone going around. He is a well dressed young black man. He likes to look good, which is not, which is nothing wrong with that. He was actually looking for a pair of air Jordans.

It was hot on the market that the air he wanted to pair. And they were hard to come by. And he just happened to stumble on this small store that had a pair in the window. When he goes in, ask to try on a pair of size like 10s. The clerk brings them out. He tries them on, but understand Christopher Thomas, because he is someone who sort of, you know, he wants to try on another pair. He wants to try on this pair. He wants to try on a variety of pairs. You got to make sure they fit. Yeah, you know, just before you make a pilot decision, but this particular store clerk, and it was a matter of store policy, they would bring out one pair, the customer would try it on. When the customer wanted to try on another pair, they would literally repack the first pair, take it back in the back, bring out another pair, let them try it on. When he wanted a third pair, pack it up, take it in the back. And to be honest, this was sort of, this was,

there's no reason for this, but it was the fear from the store policy, and the managers of the store was that being, it was in a black neighborhood, it was mostly black customers, it was a pair of very children, they figured black people would want to, you know, they would try it on, and then suddenly make a mad dash, the door, you know, and get out without paying. And this was their way of, the store's way of trying to prevent that, because as Chris actually pointed out, as he was trying on his air Jordans employees from the store, kind of made meander their way toward the door, and stored a, the post there, you know, just in case he decided to go, you know, to make a dash, they would catch him. But that's not what Chris is about, he is not that type of person. He, he has a good job, you know, but, and that's the problem with racial profiling. That's why my definition of racial profiling extends beyond just

highways and law enforcement officers stopping and targeting black people for stops, because profiling happens, I mean, it happens to, to our brothers, our sisters, our fathers, our mothers, it happens to a professor, you know, just, just, you know, he makes good money and he's, and he stops, it's just a really bad, bad, and it happens to people even when they know their rights. Now, you also talk about Robert Wilkins, who is the chief of special litigation in the public defender's office in Washington, D .C., he was stopped. He was stopped, he was stopped coming back from his grandfather's funeral, driving late at night, all he wanted to do was get home, you know, and the thing is, like, even myself, I call, I, I make the same type of decisions where, if I'm with my family, you know, 12 hours away, I will stay the whole day and decide to drive all night, so that I can be home and quickly shower to go to work that next morning. There's nothing wrong with that decision. It's a very logical

decision, and Mr. Wilkins and his family made the same call. They would drive through the night so that they got home Monday morning in time for work. It just so happens, they were in a rented car, you know, and they got stopped. It was a carload of black, it was a black family inside, and they got stopped by state troopers, you know, the cousin of Mr. Wilkins was driving, and the state troopers were trying to get the cousin who was a driver to assign the consent to search so that the state troopers could search the car and all the contents of the car. But Mr. Wilkins, being an officer, being an attorney, said, you know, I know my rights. We have a right to say no, we don't want this, and we choose to exercise our right to say no. And, you know, why did he do that? Because once he did that, then the state troopers called in the dogs. They searched the dogs.

They sniff the exterior of the car, making sure they're safe. It is humiliating, because once it was raining that night, you know, so they all had to stand outside in the rain. Two, you have passengers, people, you know, drivers on the highway slowing up, looking at them, and just assuming that, you know, they must be criminals, they must have done something wrong. And, you know, and are they were with law abiding citizens all their way home from a funeral or other way to go? They were driving while black. They just wanted to get home. Our phone number is 404 -880 -9255. If you've ever had any of this happen to you, what would you do if it did happen? 404 -880 -9255. Has it ever happened to you, Kenneth? Oh, I'm a victim of racial profiling. I've been victimized several times. For

the last ten years, it was up until about a year ago. I used to have dreadlocks. So that in itself created all types of racial stereotypes and, you know, when you come across a person with dreadlocks, you know, some people have certain type of stereotypes that go with those locks. And I was a victim of it. Anytime I went to the car with my family, we went up to upstate New York one time and driving through a small town, we got stopped, not just once, but twice in the same town. And at the time, I had locks. So, I mean, I understand what it is to be a victim of racial profiling. So, yeah, I've been victimized. My wife has been victimized. I think that before I started this research for racial profiling, I used to think that, you know, maybe I'll find one or two people, maybe three or four who would bear victims of profiling. But as I started doing my research, it turned out that everybody has a story

to tell. Everybody, myself, you, I assume that you're black. If you are, I'm sure you have a story. And if you don't, I know you know someone who has a story. So, I mean, it's like... It affects so many people. Yeah. It makes so many different levels. Yeah. Let's go to Mike from Georgia. Hi, Mike. Good evening. Okay, Mike's not there right now. We'll get back to him in just a moment. But, you know, when you're talking about the police stopping, I mean, a lot of times, don't they say they have... They're justified in making their stops. You know, police officers have a huge discretion when it comes to making stops because one of the things that even Robert Wilkins in his research determined was that, you know, everybody, 90 % of all traffic, of all drivers and motorists, engage in some form of illegal traffic maneuver. Whether it's changing lanes without signaling, and many of us do that, are driving, you know, couplers, couplers, are a miles per hour past

the speed limit, and everyone does that. We all fall victim. We all are break traffic laws at one point or another. That's why police officers have a huge discretion when it comes to who they stop. You know, and yeah, I mean, when... And that's what we have to keep put in check with officers, because, you know, they just have that. They can stop us at a whim. And chances are, true, they may be legitimate in stopping. You know, I'm driving down with my family. I happen to change lanes without signaling. Boom, they got me. But sometimes they just... Well, they just take it to another level that they probably wouldn't have taken it at that driver been white. Well, yeah, and that's what happens. They stop us over, you know, technically, what the... In the ideal world, it is when they stop us for a particular traffic violation, the whole conversation between the police officer and the motorist should be related to that traffic stop. However, you know, it's

perfectly within a police officer's right to stop us for changing lanes without signaling. But say, you know, well, do you have any drugs in the car? You know, what are you doing? Where are you coming from? You know, can I search your car? Where'd you get this car? You know, and that's a big jump from going from... That's a big jump from... I'm stopping you for changing lanes without signaling to let me search your car because I think you might have drugs. That's a huge gap. Sure it is. Okay, I think Mike is back with us now. Hi, Mike. Hi. Yeah, I like to make a comment. One of the things that I find is that when you take your example like insurance premium, now if you take a... we can say all young teenage males have to pay a higher rate to get car insurance. And the reason it's simple is that by proportion of the population, they have more automobile accidents. And so the insurance somebody has to compensate for that by charging them a higher rate for insurance. When we talk about the racial profiling,

it's the same sort of scenario like that. proportionally, you can say what you want, but more than anything, a lot of young black males are committing these crimes, especially with giving the example with the shoe store. And so when the owners of the store are more inclined to be suspicious towards a particular person that fits a particular profile just like what we're talking about in reference to the car insurance, it's only good business to be a little more cautious, a little more prepared. It's just like if somebody's walking down the road and there's three teenage youths on this one side, and then there's an elderly couple on the other side, which side of the street are you going to be more inclined to want to walk on? You're going to want to walk on one where the elderly couple is, because there's less chance of being mugged or having anything said to you by that couple than it is by the teenage males. And it's regrettable that we live in a society where we have to do that, but it's just more efficient whether it's

being a police officer or whether it's being a manager of a store to have to do these things. Okay, Kenneth. All right, and I understand where he's coming from with that. However, you don't have to be a young black male to be a victim of racial profiling with regards to traffic stops. There was a CEO that I interviewed once. I talked to him after the book was published, but he's like his story out. He's a guy from Atlanta, Georgia. He accepted the CEO position at a vice presidency position at PepsiCo in Maryland. And this is a tall, dark, black man. He dresses in a three -piece suit. He makes well over six figures. So he dresses the part. I mean, he's not dressed down. He's not a young man. He's not a young man at all. But his point, okay, very quickly, my point is that he moved to Maryland, bought a nice house in an affluent

white neighborhood. And in the first 18 months of, you know, in the first six months that he moved into this affluent white neighborhood as vice president of this company. He was, basically, he was stopped 18 times all within like a stone throw of his home because he was a black male who just did not fit the part of living in this exclusive white neighborhood. And he's not young. Mike? Well, in a situation like that, there's going to always be abuses. And that's a regrettable scenario. And like what the gentleman said, there is, you know, profiling. We've seen, when you go into a little time, say, for a zippy martin, it says no more than three use at one time. And there's no reference to color there. It's just you. But they just are doing that to protect the store. And I'm just saying in certain times it seems to be having more efficient. Yeah,

okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mike, for your phone call. I'm sorry, but that's just completely unacceptable. That is completely unacceptable because what they are saying is that, you know, I don't know that a crime is being committed. I'm not even witnessing a crime committed. But I'm going to assume that you being a youth person is going to come in and commit a crime. And so for that reason, I'm going to limit to three. That's crazy because the way law enforcement officers are supposed to work is if you commit a crime and someone sees it, then you make that arrest. You don't come, you don't, you know, presume that someone is going to commit a crime. That just is not right. So you think, I mean, I kind of see what Mike was saying, though. But I mean, you have your store owner and you're there by yourself or with one other person. And you have 10 or 15 kids coming in at one time. You can't manage that many kids who, I mean, they may or may not be there for, to do any harm. But how would you suggest a store owner handle something like that? Oh, man. You know, that's coming

right off the top. You know, I couldn't even, even suggest that I do. It's a hard thing to answer. And it is, you know, it really is. But at the same time, I think that we cannot, we should not, presume that someone is going to commit a crime before a crime is actually committed. And, you know, if 15 youth come in, you know, and the store manager is filling uncomfortable, then, you know, hey, maybe, you know, maybe he had to have two or three other people employed in the store to, you know, to help watch those 15 people and come in, I'll be prepared. You know, it's like, it's just, when we start making presumptions on people and making stereotypes that young people are going to come in and commit crimes and stuff, then it's just a bad starting point. It really is. I'll see exactly what you're saying. Let's go to TJ in Atlanta. Hi, TJ. Hi, how are you? Good. What's your question to come in? It's really a comment. I'm listening to this show, and I respect the brother for his 30 -on -racial profiling. But we're sitting here pretending like

we don't know that this exists, and it's been going on, and he had to do an actual case study. The bottom line is this. There's a system of black and white. Now, in week, continue to buy into the idea of it. We're going to always have racial profiles. We're going to lose because the system was designed. None of us voted on even being called black. We didn't vote. The thing went from slave to nigger to colored to African -American. None of us had a survey where we said, what do we want to call ourselves? If we want to stop getting hassled, stop viewing yourself in this colored thing. You would never see an Asian -American run around with a strong, yellow man, 100 percent strong, yellow man shirt on. Because the white folks called them yellow, but they don't subscribe to the idea. You've never seen a Native American. As a matter of fact, there's kind of been doubts calling teams redskins, and things of that nature. Let's just stop being black. We don't have to be people you are. The CEO of neighborhood, you know, he got stopped 18 times. That's kind of weird on anybody's case. And if something's going

on outside of him just being black, some kind of habit or something's going on. It's causing this kind of situation. Because I've been out in the world. I'm a so -called black man all around the country, all around the world. And people view you as different ways. Now, of course, they're going to call us black. But what you think about yourself is more important. We racial profile all the time. We go into Asian, beauty supply folks, we call those people the Chinese man. And we really use a Korean, not a Chinese at all. We do the exact same thing. We see a girl in a black dress with three or four toe rings. We call her Gucci. So the thing is, let's stop tripping and crying. We got a lot of stuff to do. Then we can do individually and make it. And let's not talk about who's doing something to us. All right. Who's doing it? Okay, TJ. Thanks so much for your call. Stay tuned to this public radio station. There's more PowerPoint in a moment. I love you.

And welcome back to PowerPoint, where we're talking about racial profiling. If you have a question or comment, here's the time to get involved. Call the PowerPoint

hotline at 404 -8809255. That's 404 -8809255. We're talking with Kenneth Meeks, the author of Driving While Black and he also tells you what to do. If you are the victim of racial profiling, let's go to Joe in Atlanta. Hi, Joe Hello, good evening. Yes, I'm calling in reality in South Carolina. Oh, you're in South Carolina. Yes. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead We'll talk to you anyway. I'm just kidding. Go ahead Yes, um, I will stop in um new Jersey. I'm constantly too much to go Um, my car I have is a Mercedes and the thing about it is that I will stop in the town which is ratio I mean, definitely, uh, uh, uh, all white town and I was stopping the town and Joe, Joe, excuse me, can you turn She's your radio turned up Okay, is that better? That's better. Thank you. I'm sorry. That's okay. I was um, I was stopped and officer that stopped me I when she stopped me I got out of my car and started to walk to her car with my license and everything in her hand My hand she got out the

car. She started screaming at me and she told me get back in the car I got back in the car. She told me from there that I should not ever get out the car when officer stopped them I said man, my cellist now we used to be a police officer myself in South Carolina I said I know there is no law stating that I cannot get out the car and come towards you But the thing about it is I made no justice of anything to make her feel that she was uncomfortable and she proceeded to go on with the Screaming and the shouting and then from there they came to my car They searched my car. They rammed sack my car. They locked me up. They took me to jail I was released three days later after the county Find out that I was in there which in New Jersey you can get lost in the system real easily and my family Find out where I was at and they got me out on bail now. I'm waiting for my court day wishes on 7 September 14 But the thing is that I need a good lawyer to fight this case And that's why I was so glad that I was turning my radio and I heard your station talking about it So that's why I'm asking the gentleman if he can help me with this case to get

some help with this Yeah, oh wow well when it comes to recommending an attorney it's as you know Johnny Cochran of course comes to mind because he does represent a three of the four Defendants who were shot at About two years ago in New Jersey. So I mean he does practice there He's the first person that comes in mind. However, I'm sorry that that happened to you One of the things that I recommend in in my book driving while black What to do when you're a victim of racial profiling is to never ever get out of a car when you stopped by a police officer because You know keep in mind to a police officer. They don't know who you are Right, you don't know nothing about you. So you know to approach them that that can you know They could feel that their life is in danger and so you know what they do is to compensate for that They get that's why they they will scream at you and be loud at you Because they're trying to intimidate you back into submission

You know, and then They need to take control of the situation and that's all that that this particular officer was doing to you I Why how they went from a routine traffic stop to searching your car and arresting you For three days later, etc. etc. That That takes some scrutiny right there and and even though I can't recommend an attorney to represent you I would certainly suggest this right off the bat going to the Attorney General's office Going to the American Civil Liberties Union because they have an extensive campaign on combating racial profiling the NAACP has a legal or a defense fund that is also battling racial profiling And so for that reasons I would go right off the bat and see See that those offices particularly the Attorney General's office in New Jersey because um Mr. Farmer is is actively actively pursuing um Any allegations of racial profiling against it to say troopers

because he's trying to change that image Um, that you know has damaged that state for the last you know the last 10 20 years, but sir these these were not armed state troopers They was a little small town that I went through I still go to this crappy New Jersey I still go to the state of the Attorney General's office because they When I took it to the level of accidental for the badge number, that's when they went to the screen Okay, yeah, and they were out of control from there on Yeah, and that happens, but you know why though We have to we have to follow through anyway We have to make those people accountable for even if we don't know who they are If we know the agency we still have to make them accountable because if they did that to you Today they're going to do it to somebody else tomorrow And so by you taking action and and making them You know at least think twice right before they do it again You're saving my son right y 'all from having to go through that in the future or your son

So I invite you to maybe even going through it again if you ask About it is you know you take pride. I'm 37 years old. I have never been arrested today in my life And I take pride on trying to do the right thing being a law enforcement officer and and working with kids You know, and the thing about it is the last gentleman they call and said well, you know You know you shouldn't say anything about being black, but you have to understand that you don't have to say anything It's written all over you, right? Okay, Joe good luck to you. Yeah, thank you Definitely good luck to you. I really really wish you well on the fight But now I have to say this and I have to stress this to you, Joe Do follow through you take up this struggle because racial profiling is bigger than any one book like driving while black It's bigger than any one organization like the NAACP or the ACLU because they don't have the resources to take on Every story of racial profiling. That's why we as individuals have to take proactive steps in our own Life to make sure that we held those people who profiled and victimized

us individually accountable because it's like eating an elephant you have to do it one bite at a time Good analogy. All right. Let's go to mark in Houston. Hi mark Good evening. Well, how you doing? Great. What's your point? Okay, turn your radio down Okay, sorry about that. That's no problem. Go ahead Okay, I've been approached by on several occasions with racial within police force in Houston And I can recall one time where I was stopped in my truck. I have expedition 99 and pulled over and he gets out the car Matter of fact, two wives please get out the car Come on. I'm no one in the car, mind you One gets on out on each side with his gun out on this Um for for what I don't know Close back the car. I told me on the ground Backing for my my ID at that point. I'm not you know, I'm like, what's going on? You know, why are they going To this extreme, you know Fist me back in the car running my name accidentally and he tells me hey, uh, go ahead and give me the dope. Go ahead and give me the dope Um, cuz

I don't feel like going to paperwork You know, I'm 22 years old. You know, I have a nice truck But I don't feel like that's the reason for them to um to do those kind of thing And that's all the reasons why we have to take action because you're going to do somebody else Well, Mark, have you done anything? Did you complain to anyone about this? Well, what I try to do um I want to uh, I have a uncle at the lawyer Um, I talked to him about it. He said he tells me hey to be honest about you waiting a time It happens every day, you know, it happens every day It took my ID. I didn't even get my ID back I had to go reapply, you know, I never did pursue it But um, that's not the first time to have it. I disagree. I disagree with your uncle the attorney I'm right off the bat. I disagree. You have to do something about it You have to even if it's not filing a formal complaint with like the civilian complaint board If they have one in this particular city are just filing a complaint with the

attorney generals You have to do something. I disagree with oh, don't do anything, you know, forget about it It happens to us all the time. You know, the only reason the only way Evil perpetuates itself is by us sitting back and not doing anything about it That's the only way it happens. That's why we have to do something. You have to do something Even if it's a system that when they pull them out of the first thing they ask was who car is it? Like black people like black person a black person I just supposed to drive a nice car like you know It's beyond all means, you know exactly And it really just support me with all with some of the black Some of the people in the black community that feel that racial is not a motive when um When we get stopped. Yeah, you know, did they issue you a ticket? So did that for me what they issued you a ticket? They have you know what precinct you were in when they uh when you were stopped You have an idea Well, he said uh, I switch lanes, but I was what I use the my third signal Uh -huh, you know, I don't recall that

happened in uh happening You know, I don't I mean the thing like I say early like I say is that you know Motorists in general every motorist does some type of traffic violation, you know 90 % of us engage in some type of traffic violation whether it is changing lanes without a signal or You know something mundane is that you know driving without a lights on or driving without um a uh Seatbelt on or something to that effect and police officers use those little bitty Valacious to stop us and when they stop us they go from Making this a routine traffic stop to let me search your car for drugs Which is our huge gap. That's right huge leap for an officer to make and they have to have some type of reasonable Reason some type of reasonable cause are to make that type of jump And if you don't have anything that causes them to think that you have drugs then I right off the bat I'd follow complain against

the officers are the precinct or the captain or the city and our town that you are in You have to make a statement even if it's a small whisper You have to make a statement that listen. I was a victim of racial profiling and I'm pointing the finger at you Yeah, go ahead I see the bus coming out. It's kind of late. So I started running for the bus and about four or five Police cars come Zulu won't watch my way because you were running. What's going on? Yeah, it happens mark lesson, but you need to get busy and and make your complaints

You know and just do it as quickly as you can and thanks so much for your phone call I've got Bob in South Carolina. Hi, Bob Doing good evening. Hi, I'm on a cell phone. How well can you hear me very well? You're coming in crystal clear good I just had was listening to your show and and I had a thought um What do you think of the possibility that the police sort of look upon themselves as a business? In a profit making sense and possibly one of the reasons that they profile as specifically in the looking for drugs and things like that is that once Someone gets arrested for drugs and gets into the legal system That becomes a profit center for the police and the judicial system Okay And I'm like and that's still wrong. That's even worse. Oh, no, I'm worse. No, I agree. I agree with you But that's but are you saying Bob that's a reason? What I'm wondering is that something that you think possibly is the mentality Oh as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, it happens.

You know, they have to reach you know It's it's actually a proven fact that you know, there've been police department there've been officers like for instance in Chicago two police officers sued a police department in Chicago because They're precinct on Commanders said listen, we have to meet quotas. You got to meet quotas and At the result target minority drivers as a result of it. You know, just look at the prison systems I always got systems right off the bat You know, I mean say if you look who's incarcerated and why they're incarcerated It seems that drug related type things are extremely percentage wise very high why why people get incarcerated. Yeah, it is because now the prisons are becoming privatized and stuff You know, it's a business mate. It's a business right making profit business. It's it's strictly business Sure, it is right. It's wrong. wrong We are getting victimized by it I

agree with you. It's wrong Let's let's think of this as taking it a step further and this might sound very very extreme But what happens if the drugs were legalized and you take the money out of it I don't know that that would change anything Yeah, that's a whole another system because and you know what and I agree with you that I'm not sure that would change anything Because of two reasons one We're talking about racial profiling as it exists with law enforcement officers Right definition of racial profiling happens even beyond law enforcement officers We can go into a department store and go to buy an item with you know $300 worth of items with a credit card and be racially profiled by you know I want to see ID. I want to see the proof that you have a job I need to have a certain you know and that's racial profiling so it really goes more to a mindset than anything else. Thank you so much for your phone call Bob. We appreciate that. Let's go to Alvin in Atlanta. Hi Alvin Thanks for holding yeah Yeah I'm in Atlanta and

I just want to say I was driving back from Over in west southwest or to close to the Alabama line and I have locks and a convertible And this is the first time I had gotten stopped in two years and so I wanted to invite TJ I think he was to come travel with me And then we go to Clayton County where I've gotten several tickets. Well it's county where I've been locked up House and County Houston County where a couple of months ago They stopped me said something about truckers were saying that I was driving too slow and they Searched my car for hours and kept me detained Everywhere I go. I get stopped. Yeah. Yeah, let me tell you this right off the bat But for the last 10 years up until last year I had dry locks from all of 1990 and all of 1990 I got stopped I would be walking down the street and police officers would be like y 'all I think you are you you fit the description of somebody,

you know where you going Where you headed? I was in upstate New York. I was in upstate New York twice in the same city I was starting the same town. I was stopped and this is back in the day when I had locks It was only last it was only after last year when I cut my locks for my job that I started to fill a sense of ease You know, I wasn't profiled as much, you know, but you know, that's what happens in every track my leave home again I get stopped except this last time and ironically you all are having this conversation When I heard goa mentioned racial profilement speech. I like screened out. I mean, I'm not all democratic. I'll go But to put this in the middle discussion in this country is very important because you can't move around without being racially profiled JT or whatever his name was and if you can call back and give his number I'd like for him to travel. We don't have to announce nothing except to get on the road in my convertible and we'll be stopped Okay, and the only reason why I'll go even mention racial profiling is because We are we are forcing the issue We've said enough is enough. We are tired of being racially profiled

and we demand We have to make it stop and we are holding our our elected officials accountable for that Alvin have you made any complaints? Um, I really think one time I was taking um, I worked with you But I went up to a mall in North Georgia and got stopped in dollars and they put the dogs on me And I didn't have my insurance card. So they wrote me a ticket Well, I wrote back to the sheriff and and told him how intimidated I felt and sent my copy of my insurance And they wrote me a letter back and said we um, we apologize to that effect and you know forget about the ticket But that was the only time that that happened The situation down in housing county. I was reluctant, but I think I'm on a right to let it happen when I stopped He asked me my way to get the car Did I know that people traveled through that area with drugs etc. So he had nothing So it stopped me for but he asked me if I mind letting them look in the car Well, what happened when I turned around it was seven police cars and dogs right there with him. So Brother wrote the book. I didn't know what to do,

but to say yes, I was felt so overwhelmed And um, they kept me then and didn't again did the search like Alvin keep complaining please do keep complaining keep that letter Of going, but I would say this one right off the bat. I'm don't feel intimidated Don't feel intimidated just because there's a whole bunch of police officers and a whole bunch of dogs around you And you have a right to say no if they do not have any probable cause To search your car you have the right to say no and say no, nobody they can have the entire squad Around you and helicopters say no Driving privilege because they normally give you a trumped -up ticket so that you know that effect should continue license and all that Well, listen Alvin hang in there. Don't cut your dress. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right Our discussion about racial profiling will continue Adam and Ahmed stay with me We'll be back in a moment And And

welcome back to PowerPoint where we are discussing racial profiling We had hoped to have SCLC president Martin Luther King III in the Reverend Al Sharpton on with us this evening Because this is such an important issue and one that they apparently will be discussing during the redeem the dream March, but apparently they had other issues they had felt more important to deal with tonight and we are very sorry That we were not able to bring them to you, but We have Kenneth makes the author of driving while black who Definitely feels this is a very strong issue to talk about this evening and Kenneth Thanks so much for being with us to talk about it and get the word out Thank you for inviting me once again And I have great utmost respect for the Reverend Al Sharpton and Martin Luther King I think that particularly Al Sharpton has Has forced an issue even you know, he is he has yet another light and Forcing this issue of racial profiling so I you know, he is still he still commands respect

in my book Well, we don't disrespect and we're just hope he would shed that light here tonight So we all go there. All right, let's go to Adam. We will go to Adam and South Carolina. Hi, Adam How are y 'all doing tonight great? What's your question account real quickly? One quick story. I'm a recent law school graduate and while I was taking criminal procedure We had a gentleman in my class who Haven't had longer hair and they was in a band He was driving like one night coming back from a gig and he was pulled over for similar reasons that Uh, you've commented that that blacks have been pulled over. It's just he looked different. So the Officers pulled him over and asked to search his car Um, I guess my question is is how do you differentiate between a legitimate stop and one that's done for profiling purposes Hmm, okay I see now you gotta understand that I'm not an attorney. I didn't go to law school or anything like that But I think every motorist ought to defend she I don't know the

difference between reasonable suspicion and probable cars I think that if if your friend is driving down the street and he's pulled over and he didn't do anything wrong He doesn't have any drugs. He wasn't actually drinking a smoking or anything like that Are there's no Perfonella around and he gets stopped and the car and the officer asked to search his car That's reasonable suspicion He has a legitimate reason to say no. I do not want my off my car search I want to exercise my right against unreasonable search and seizure and so therefore no The the most that would happen is that he would endure um a lengthy stop because they got a pull it bring in the the German shepherds Sniff around the car and stuff, but you know That's the problem with racial profiling That's why we are talking and trying to make this the stop That is completely different from your friend driving down the street. He gets stopped the car The police officer comes up to the side of the other car door and he

smells alcohol or he smells marijuana Or he actually sees the crack pipe sitting in the passenger seat beside him That's probable cause there's evidence right there That there's there's something in plain sight that says listen He did some criminal act and I see it therefore You know he engaged in the crime are probably he probably engaged in the crime and therefore I could search his car That those are two different distinctions And you know if we did if we're driving down the street and we're not doing anything wrong We don't have any drugs on us. We do we're not drinking and we're stopped because we didn't We didn't signal that we were changing lanes and the car and the officer says I want to search your car It's like no officer. I didn't do anything wrong. What's your probable cause? You have none I'm exercising my right against unreasonable search procedures and saying no. I don't want my car

searched That's the difference. Yes, sir It's interesting. He actually tried to do that and what happened? Well, he made a mistake, but he should have done better. He then consented to the search But but but that's not a mistake. That's not a mistake at all because even if he consented for a search He at any time can say no, you know what I changed my mind I no longer want my car to be searched and that officer has to cease and stop searching his car If there are no if there's no probable cause and involved in the first place That's right off the bat. That's and that's caught up outpaled Mm -hmm. So he I mean, but the off from the officers vantage point He's thinking well if you have nothing to hide. Why can't I search your car? Oh, but see that's every officer's vantage point That's not they coming from the officers point of view That's what happened with or mr. Whitt with with mr. Wilkins, you know And his cousins and everything that like well, you know everybody if you have nothing to hide then let me search your car But you know that's a weak

argument That is that is an illegitimate argument to make Because we have a constitutional right to says we do not have to engage in and unreasonable search procedure and You know, I even if I did have something to hide if you don't have probable cause don't I'm not giving it to you Like I'll let you search you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for you call. Bye. Bye. Our phone number is 404 8 8 5 9 2 5 5 4 0 4 8 8 5 9 2 5 5 Let's go to Ahmed in Houston. Good evening. Yes. Oh, good afternoon. I have a question and I hope you could give me answers I heard once that maybe just uh if we could clear this up it might answer some of the questions that We've been asked in here I was told once that it is written into the Constitution the United States of America that the black man There's two successful remain is that is there any truth to that? Well, I don't know that it's actually written into the car. Have you ever heard that I know

that uh the courts have actually The courts have actually interpreted the Constitution to mean that and so you know up until you know like the civil rights movement are up until You know, I'm not like I said I didn't go to law school I've heard that and I know that that the original meaning and definition of the Constitution did not apply To black people know but but they didn't apply to white women either And it's only under the definition that the the modern supreme court wrote for the Constitution that in this included white women But that's the whole point of you know of having a supreme court They they interpret the Constitution to to To reflect the sign of the times and in today's times the Constitution Allows black people to be one hundred

percent man are a woman of course, but then Few years ago Congress from Dullin and a few others try to get that removed I He they probably I think they may have the you mean the three fifths rule Yes, and these and they said if they couldn't remove it, but they amended not you know I was just thinking if it if you got on a pair of pants and it's torn and I'm minted you still got the same pants on Just been minted Yeah, well, I mean, I think what I'm trying to say is maybe if If this is a point this gives them all the right We're talking about right. They have a right if this is written if this is an actual fact That they have all the right in the world of stuff you because you registered and that book has left in man It's left to me You know, I I kind of sort of do, but I think that all of that has been you know changed by a minute and everything else Thank you so much for your phone That no longer applies in

today's definition. We've got to go very but very quickly. Yeah, give us a formula for prevention Who prevention? Yeah, I mean, we gotta can we nip this in the bud? You know, there's no way to actually prevent from being a victim of racial profound the best that we can do is continue the dialogue Make continue to hold individually responsible people who who victimize us who racially profile us and just speak up and speak out get it makes thank you so much for being with us and you're listening to PowerPoint You You

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