Legendry; Interview with Buddhist leader Rinpoche at Karme Choling on His Early Years, Part 1 of 2

Good evening. This is Frank Anthony. Producer of legendary on past legendary programs. We welcomed many who came to Vermont to find a new country and a new way of life. Maria von Trapp brought her family to stall. A social need since came to Cavendish. Here in the Vermont tradition is a man who barely escaped the Chinese communists. The way to bring the tradition of his twenty five hundred year old Buddhist teachings with him. Tonight we hear reports say or teacher as he is known the founder of karma chilling Meditation Center in Barnett Vermont. Tonight's program was taped at the Buddhist meditation center in Barnett while founder reports say was there on one of his rare visits. Reports say it was only a few months old the son of Tibet farmers when he was chosen by the elders of Tibet as the reincarnated Trungpa to head their monastery. Years later as many

remember. The Chinese communists forced many people of Tibet. To flee the ancient besieged country for their lives. Rupert Shea and three hundred of his followers fled over secret mountain passes by night. After a thousand miles on foot one thousand of them reached India. Westerners Gutman put Che to Oxford University where he graduated. Later he founded a Buddhist monastery in Scotland. Six years ago Che came with his followers to Barnet Vermont where he founded the Buddhist meditation center known as comic chilling. Hundreds of people from all over the country have come to comment shilling for spiritual guidance in the Buddhist meditation tradition. Here's a at Karma chilling in Barnet Vermont a. Sure.

You. Can. Good evening. Shafer Vermont Public Radio and it's a pleasure to be here with you this evening to share your thoughts. And I thank you very much for inviting us to talk with you. The first thing I'd like to ask you is if you could replay act on your childhood in Tibet. Well. My birthplace is in. Used to bed which is going to province will come. I was identifying as the reincarnation of the previous

Trungpa of my ministry and I was brought into the monastery in age of 18 months. Oh and. From then on would my education started when I was 5. With a private tutor. And. Pretty much leading a monastic life. And hearing are my life for the rest of the day. But you're just and you're just. And this started that 18 months of age 18 months when I was invited into the ministry. Can you remember very much about your parents back say when you were three four five years old were back in those early years. Well my parents my mother. Spent a part of her time with me. I knew her by the monastery and my father stayed behind.

Then they were engaged in agricultural work. Yes the day before. Your early training then in the monastic sense was that. When did that start to take place. Well it was said that as soon as my actual education began when I was about a five. Minute stick discipline began to happen. Were you actually involved with training with monks other monks. That yes indeed. Learn how to chant and how to perform ceremonies and memorizing text. And. Getting up any and. Taking part in the rituals and ceremonies festivities. How far back did some of this training go. Well traditionally Actually you mean chronologically. Yeah I think I understand. Well I want to state was founded to Mina.

What do you century. And obviously India goes back to a Tibetan Buddhism was introduced in Tibet in the seventh century. Then it was a tradition in your family or where you as a as a reincarnation or an incarnation did you more or less Take a difference from your family or was it a tradition that was that came down through your family itself. Well nothing to do with my family in particular they were. Simple folk just religious peasants. And I was brought into a monastery which is has tradition of its own already. How was it decided that. Or was there some person who decided that you would follow this way of life. Well since I was a founded I discovered through my parents and the location of the place was a protected who had told my head of how he's held in his company and he had

sent these instructions to a monastery to look for the new incarnation. And my parents names and locations and evidence completely coincided. After that I was apparently put through some tests of. Picking up certain objects and having a certain attitude when I was when I was 18 months old. I was then brought to a mime on a string. And. Since then people had just simple faith and it's just going to work. And I have no personal choice. So it was all more or less decided for you. That's right. Can you remember how you felt about that. Well there is no other reference point then that monastic lives on. Things seem to be. Rather much straightforward and there's no other temptations were there than there is no other. Side track so any alternatives at all so that you can just under present life. And I felt fairly comfortable with it and felt like a very natural way of life quite a natural

Yes. Do you think you might remember this is looking back a long ways but. How the outside world was regarded when you were a young man. Well it was regarded as a some sense a mystery. I would say as much as the. Outside world regard Tibet is a mystery and we need a guide on how to move the same kind of mystery and in particular the Western world and the influence of Britain and America is regarded is that the world of gadgets and all sorts of. Things like that. And we used to have a kind of you know little items like pocket knives and chains and. Pumps and pens and watches and the kind of thing is some sort of. Interesting specimens of. People outside world who made them. Were there very many visitors that you can remember from the outside world.

Not at all not in our part of the country which is a far closer China so a lot of the visitors usually come from India. Does not sound central to Venice and we didn't make it. Well on. Was an abrupt and a very complete change in life when the communists came in and about when did that happen. Well it started 40 knowing Chinese begin too much into our part of the province and. The first people were very afraid they might lose place and destroy the whole thing. Which they didn't at the beginning of their very called you and pleasant. And people were somewhat relieved. And as time went on they began to become more and more forceful and they began to interrupt life much more so than as they first came. And obviously they're there and then their precious begin to become much more stronger on the monastic life as well as in life of the ordinary people. So. Some people rebelled against it. Those people were arrested and some of them killed.

So eventually there's a big rising took place all over the country. And at that point and you have sent troops and. Destroyed places and the rest muster people and. The point where I had to leave. What happened to the treasures and you or your official buildings or maybe you call them sacred buildings. Well I'm going to try a lot of them out a bunch out and get just a destroyed and the some of the rare things that maybe have taken down to China and museums but when the first troops begin to destroy them honestly I didn't pay much attention to anything. Sorting out. Most of them or just any other objects have got to do is there. Something that threatens the establishing communism into Tibet. And would these be with these be valuable objects of gold or Wells a lot of a could just manuscript.

A lot of them and gold statues will. Owe a very old engine to the statues and objects that were introduced to Tibet was some of them and goes about his finances. Seventh Century. Was there any attempt to made by the people to to try to get along with the communist work something out. I think if they tried to launch the actual uprising took place. So we spent about a 10 years with them. So each time when people called Reddit. Close some of them they begin to. Take advantage of it more and more Muslim. They must know where I'm from to the reconciliation of any kind of what do you think that their their intent was just to wipe out your culture. Do they resent you from the standpoint that you were older or could well and I think it was not meant to come from a definite religion.

And to additional life that belief as you know is dear communism is the only way to protect and to better present people are much more religious. Even then you know upper class people so they felt somewhat difficult to establish communism usually and you tell you Communism in other countries usually the peasants rise and a date and destroy the monasteries and everything I want happened in Russia and China itself. But in Tibetans case is entirely different. So they never quite frustrated the peasants who won't go along with them so that's why then we decide to destroy India monasteries either of those things still standing or doing so. Well could you tell us just a bit about your escape to India at that time. Well actually I wrote a book about it called Born in Tibet. And what your listeners might be interested in reading it and you give it you just cry halves the entire

scape. And also part of my life as well. The actual escape clause took place about 10 months all together working closely I'm on there. And. At that time the uprising took place already and suppression took place already. So I must with important points I completely got it. So we have too much mostly night time crossing I waste in that kind of thing time zones and night time and of course in my layers have had to be nine times and we had wanted to join today and there were 300 of us to start with. And a lot of them went on presents and some of monks. Did you have a horses are and where you couldn't even ride horses because the path we're talking is a we deliberately had to choose so that the Chinese couldn't get after us. And about how many miles would you say you had to go alone I don't know you don't know is how many miles across the border all the way to India all the way to India.

Well hard to say probably. Thousand seven hundred thousand. Something like that because of course now it's very short. If you look at the map but I don't have to climb mountains up and down it takes lot of time. Whether someone didn't make it. Well a lot of them didn't make it why not everybody changed and to court so only about one thousand of us escaped. We had to make a boat to cross the rivers and that kind of thing would become noticeable to them. And then sometime later you found yourself in Oxford overnight when we was wondering how that happened. Well I spend several years now India and refugee camps and special camps set up for the nonstick situations and and I spend sometimes. And also then I begin to work for the people. Running or school that. You and I had met some. Western US. And

they had promised to help me. To get a further education in the Western. World and I took the opportunity to offer. So I find myself in looks with in England and you became a fellow at university. Well I was. A. Graduate you know us and them. Could we ask how you decided to go to Scotland. At that point. Well my I spent about a fine. Yes in Oxford and at that time down a lot of interest in the Buddhism generally and particularly Tibetan form of about Islam. People are very interested and. One particular organization in Scotland off and land and property and too nice. To Myself and my pen friends who came along with me and we decided to go up at unity to establish. Meditation Center in Scotland.

It was that meditation center similar to this one here in Vermont. Well quite a similar Yes I think the general idea is to receive students and they receive a training intellectual as well as a discipline intuition. What is the philosophy that evolves from common showing what is a philosophy a philosophy that well because a philosophy is the same to be a maintain or. Trying to develop. A. Higher level of sanity which is known as in my comment. And that seemed to me to basic point and you know it had to do that people have to practice meditation quite a vigorously at the same time also communication with each other. And then friendship Magic got up and also some basic but his philosophies could be studied. So the idea is to prepare individuals that way and so then as you develop yourself you can go out and help others in that way because it's

somewhat similar to what teaching calls keeping still. Could be. Because I know there's also the Ching you get you get much of the same kind of guidance that it's it's very difficult in many situations to keep one's self still. Well I think it what we will call it in both the stillness as well as a moment put together. That you know you could keep yourself still. But at the same time you can move very fast. So the ideas then developing oneself on helping others put together that way. Why did you choose Vermont. Well Google from a student of mine who had departed earlier before I left Scotland and they have traveled all around the country and they have found this particular form here. And they found it it's right interactive and they send me postcards imagined maps of it and I thought it was a great idea.

So I told them to go ahead and put your place. And that when I came here I knew I did very much it seems not exactly what I envisioned right pleasant to do you get most of your support your financial support from the people who come here and who will use it as a meditation center. Yes mostly and we had a lot of buildings here as you've seen already in all. Them mostly from the students who had helped us out. I wonder if I could ask you how does your persuasion differ from or does it differ from other Oriental followings. Well I don't know exactly how d other situations took place because we have never looked at the read closely. But just as much as I. Observed. In some sense as saying that teacher comes out from down country and find that students begin to teach. But on the other hand it seemed to be thought a different when

we established albums Asian. We do not to promise anything to anybody at all. And there is no salesmanship of any kind of toll is simply just common to sit and meditate which a lot of students found at the beginning quite hard to do and in particular they ask of us well why me doing all this and what I had to say was just it doesn't matter why but just keep doing it. And that seemed to be somewhat subtly different branch and I really had never actually tried to publicize. In the times the only way to go. Well I noticed one thing I was talking with. Someone in the town of Barnett. Last week before I came here and I knew nothing about the center of it all and yet this person I asked this person if he had ever heard of the Kama chilling meditation center. She seemed to know a lot about it and then she seemed to have a very positive impression about the place and was saying that she wanted to come here many times but had never gotten to it. What is it

why is it there seems to be a kind of a positive acceptance of of a common chilling in this area. I think generally how did you would do a line from the Diggler style of living which is basically based on the tremendous number of well there's a plan. And we have. Grown on fellows we started a lot of people who have started as a young not necessarily age wise but in terms of development. And since they've been here people begin to grow up a lot of them begin to become a reasonable and a decent which of course through the practice of meditation that develops naturally and I think that we are but one that also is individually and that has some kind of connection to it coming out to not us too. I sense that from this when I came up it seemed to me that many of the people here were

just instantly unnaturally friendly and I wondered what you know brought that about. What if you tried to sit meditate and you find out. I want to thank you very much for giving us this opportunity to have you on Vermont Public Radio and I hope that you find your stay here in Vermont a very pleasant one. I mean you know thank you very much. This is Frank Anthony. Here is an excerpt from poachers talk which will be broadcast next Sunday. But Welling nobody's even your thing and you're sitting here right taut

and may look and that is a sea of the whole thing. That when the person is alert and taught and wink and opened our eyes then we can say that person has seen them in them. There you go to everything to get out of the. Seat of a Buddha in them already. You exist would need you have a seat already because you are here. And you are not yawning. Your eyes ears open and that is a starting point. We must start from that point. And that particular principle is known as the nature. Don't all of you have a sense of in like and potentiality someone is mourning.

However the basic essence of anointment nature. Is that of absence of a lazy and a touch of openness and fundamental delight. It could flourish the delight could flourish or it could be still could remain as embryonic but nevertheless there is some sense of a delight exist already. According to the Buddhist principle we talk of those terms. Being. Notion of. If your listeners. And notion of what fullness sharpness.

The idea if we grow the business it's here quite naturally. If there is an ego exist as a permanent intruder who is big in following the pursuit of his bread your discipline then you won't be here. To begin with. Even if you are here. You know we're not. Open your eyes and ears. Because we're the reason that you want to lock yourself away from any instructions of any kind at all. That you want to maintain yourself. And if any question about the possibility is of. Letting go of the grasp. In one's basic core

of neurosis who are not exist. So the question here is that when there is a possibilities of holding onto a basic core we should examine that and other which will look at that further. Who is doing it what causes us to do so. What kind of outcome we are expecting from it. And in fact if you looked further with a foreigner. We would find no course road nobody's doing it. But don't we do seem to be a deep mystery. And for the very reason that when we try to hang on to ego fixation we don't get anywhere.

Who seem to be talking to ourselves critically speaking and thinking to ourselves. There is no fundamental basic ground basic logic of any kind at all nothing of the future. Why. Thank you for listening. Join us next Sunday for part two reports talk at Karma chilling. That's Sunday at 7:00 p.m. on Vermont Public Radio and legendry. Good evening. What.