The Proposed Eisenhower Memorial: Is it "Right by Ike?"

he was a five star general the thirty fourth president of the united states and the supreme commander of allied forces in europe during world war two i'm kenny macintyre and today on k pr presents the legacy of dwight d eisenhower last week a controversial memorial to eisenhower in washington dc move one step closer to becoming a reality when the us commission on fine arts gave next round approval to the design by architect frank gehry today we'll hear from brigadier general car over dow executive director of the dwight d eisenhower memorial commission about eisenhower's legacy and the plans for honoring eisenhower with a national memorial will also find out why the memorial project has been so controversial from sam rhodes spokesman for right by night an organization that opposes the project in its current form and the process by which it was chosen but first brigadier general car a rebel has been with the eisenhower memorial

commission since two thousand one he spoke of may second two thousand thirteen with bill lacy director of the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas carl welcome to the north through the wine editor i'll tell us when and why you first got interested in it oh in the simplest sense it happens because in russia in a way that i did not plan it became russian specialists in the military officer how else do i explain that except for the cold war so i was more in western nebraska my grandmother's house and my first rather insist there how did they end up wearing uniform for much of my adult life becoming russian specialist mussa very simply put because of the cold war and a long story short as we're approaching the end of the cold war because of all the above i'm leading a team of young americans into russia to destroy nuclear capable missiles

working together with strategic rocket forces officers of the soviet union i thought if these two former these two enemies the cold war so on these two enemies can beat swords into plowshares way to local wars or are these two former enemies might show the world so progressive just didn't happen i was frustrated with the process but i was an active duty military officer la based very clear i'm also trained historian an id say that it might be time to look at the past so my war world war three the cold war wasn't ending the way i saw that might how did they end world war two so i went back and took a look and discovered general marshall general eisenhower and others and i realize perhaps

i was a pygmy the land the former giants simply put that's why we're doing what i'm doing now well as it is a junior force what about general eisenhower's generalship impressions it my understanding of eisenhower as a military officer was an incremental gradual thing it was not a single inside a and although i've met a military professional our services are quite different in the way in which they do many things all committed to the security of this great country but working in different land sea in their environments and different traditions within their services i'm saying that in part because they were talking one army officer and i do not pretend to know the army culture and all the facets of what it is about leadership but

on the other hand i came finally to understand that eisenhower was a very imbedded fundamental part of the transition of my profession into its current modern state of competence and i discovered that as i learned to know eisenhower and he had a great deal to do with the creation of my own service the united states air force and an institution that i spent much time with the united states air force academy he had come to be part of the transition of all our military services into the modern form shape and competence would say represents a day at a time says more about my ignorance of lack of awareness than it does about these other things but i came to know what i just told you is very true eisenhower was fundamental to these larger issues in ways that i didn't appreciate how much later in life

what do you say is more impressive his records of your own world war two or as president in a cush a sense that's a million dollar question for many people from my viewpoint it's neither one nor the other his record as a general is powerful and as is his record as president but what is most amazing to me is how these two worlds came together in a single lifetime of citizenship and public service so as general he was part of the evolution of our military and never lost his focus on the spirit of the country from the beginning of this wearing a uniform at west point to the end of his life this curious country can first volley beyond everything else and he

pursued that security first as a general and then as president and as a single story and the great book to tell us has yet to be written that single story is what makes this general this president truly exceptional that is a single unitary fabric a holistic to mention what this man was about and his strategic sense is executive stands his leadership capabilities all there must be viewed through this combined set of lenses if you will to separate them as artificial and it's a huge mistake ok um when we talked a few weeks ago and you agree to come and unspeakable by tonight you said that one of the really interesting aspects of being the executive director of the commission is that you have access to get to see all this interesting new

research talk a little bit of wasilla the new historians of the projects in there and work on celebs the eisenhower legacy continues to be revealed both specialists in to the general public in multiple ways and in the role of executive director of the ais a memorial commission we are able to knock on doors and we would be able to knock on otherwise for example i have the senior editor of the eyes are papers professor rose columbus and johns hopkins university call in our office at least once a month he spent over twenty five years reducing the twenty one volunteer though it that i see our papers we cite an example as one indication of the depth and the breadth of the legacy as it's now being revealed those winds were only completed in the year two thousand and one it typically takes four five

years from the result of that type of scholarship to be translated into a format that the general public can enjoy so what's happened it's a beginning in nineteen ninety this process has been ongoing it's gone through several cycles and faces it's now in many ways in another a new phase of re appreciation general and president eisenhower so without citing a particular book the book that i have just finished reading is on eisenhower's sputnik moment it's a re analysis and how he dealt with both make our achievements in space the substance of his contributions to what it meant for the long term history and future of the united states that's done at the level of scholarship which has been done before although everybody thinks they know i sometimes for many people think they know i sometimes put it and i'd suggest yawning which policies were published by cornell university press just out is an exciting new book of that reality of that story

i could cite cite others we track this it's our intelligence operation if you will the latest meeting insights on ice and aren't if i make grand statements about eisenhower tonight they're based on that kind of scholarship day when he asked a really tough question a lot about your personal opinion of eisenhower's legacy i mean what stands out as if you're gonna give us two or three key points life or really stand out in your mind i'm affected by my experience as a serving officer and the long term opposition we had to a continental power that was hostile to us and in someone's intent on destroying this that was of course to your asian continent as ruled by its soviet leadership for much of modern the twentieth century when i look at it eisenhower i view him

through that lens and these are going to be big generalizations but we have a limited period of time let me suggest to your viewpoint on this at the beginning of the twentieth sentry there are two continental lead based powers one in eurasia one in the north american continent they're both experiments in the realization of human destiny one ends up being terribly flawed and failed the other is still alive today we're a gifted as americans to walk on that stage one of the great historical experiments in the simplest sense one of the best pieces of evidence we have that this american experience works experiment works is dwight david eisenhower he lives citizenship to its fullest he never gave up on

his concern for the security of his country and the same time he had all the passion and faith in his soul but liberty democratic values and processing those should be given to as many people as possible to me that is a contribution which is huge an enormous one time i was on the telephone with joe andrew goodpasture were military officers that's a revered named the twentieth century was also staff confident secretary to joe eisenhower i have the privilege of sharing office space with him when i first came to washington with the us a world affairs institute and i realized sometimes you is tutoring me on ice in our new song beautiful understated informal way when i began work with the commission one day i called him said cause a moral going i told

and then he said will call you know what the question really is where is it when we need it yesterday there was never a man in american history more committed to the security of this country and developing as much liberty is possible for us eisenhower were tremendously hearten most of those was ever a time when we needed to balance liberty and security i think eisenhower has relevance for us today and i know your question was more complex than that but if you would come if i were to come to the very core of what i understand about his great man now this great citizen actions that's it very good i will shift gears all talk about the memorial commission well as the audience before you heard about tonight's program and many of you have heard of the eisenhower memorial commission ranger and

so fifty percent forty five percent something like that that's a pretty good about what is the eisenhower memorial commission joe what even the eisenhower memorial commission is the creation of the united states congress the commission has made up before centers for members of the house for presidential appointees the creation of the memorial commission reflects in part what i just told you about the evolution of the view and re appreciation of bison out of the fact that this commission was created is if you will an expression of the united states people of its leaders as represented in congress and two world war two veterans the senior republican senator ted stevens from alaska and senator daniel away from or why both together in a bipartisan way said it is time for us to really appreciate and share eisenhower so they introduced the legislation which led to the creation of the

commission so in a simple sense my colleagues and i we have a small staff but eight nine people we work for the for centers for members the house or presidential appointees who help them make their best decision about how best to share eisenhower's achievements and legacy with american people that commission and works under the guidance of the existing laws and regulations which have become more and more complex because of the competition in part for space on the mall in washington dc in itself so for good reason this has become a very deliberate kind of process so that time inst not wasted money it's not wasted space is not wasted and we work that process to complete this memorial at the direction of the congress why do you believe that an eisenhower memorial is so necessary i believe it's necessary in part because of this great experiment i was describing to earlier in order

for this great experiment to continue well we have to be as mindful it's possible of the great and poor leadership we've had a different times in our history we need to know enough of our history is in order to make this truly work one day i was in center airways office with my chairman and we were there center in a way was until his recent passing our vice chairman and when my chairman rocco sicily on all from salt lake city utah and i sat down with center in a way he began to talk about the war of eighteen twelve and he began to talk about its significance in american history and as he talked about this my chairman's looked at me this is not senator airways normal mode what's happening and i shook my head i don't know what's happening with the senator went on to talk about how important this was and how few young americans appreciated its

significance and then he turned to my chairman and said and rocco if we don't do something about it so they won't know about him either here i'm seated with this japanese american from white correct congressional medal of honor when i'm liking one hand on with this italian american from salt lake city utah member of the tenth mountain division discussing how to memorialize this german american from the plains of kansas i thought what an american story and that's what the burden of these men were award to generation where about because they believe that it's essential for this experiment is to continue that we do what you're doing at this poll institute he shared these great models of the exemplars an example of the past that should both inspire us enable us to continue the experiment

and i'll talk to us a little bit and so walk us through what she took over as executive director what is the process by which our the location was established the designer was chosen can't walk us through that process in them will actually i get even a moment but let's talk about the current design it very interesting way you just raised three major questions which i learned were part of this process having retired from the air force will literally in order to engage with eisenhower i would occasionally encounter former air force france would say and they'd say oh i understand he retired this i have what you're doing i'm working on this film more of it and i would get one of three questions and differ or where you put the moral what's a memorial going to be easy going to be a statute it when are you going to do it and you have to answer those three questions so in the simplest sense a memorial of the

magnitude we're talking about a national presidential memorial in other words their statues the presidents and so forth between memorial decisions which are not truly national they're six national presidential memorials this will be number seven the first of the twenty first century so the complete this process you need first of all to identify site and that has its own specific legal requirements are you have to come before different boards and bodies and if it's within what is defined as area one then you need also the approval of the house and the senate in order to be inheriting one so that means once you've selected this i mean you must have the congressional approval we selected our site finally after looking at twenty six in the year two thousand and five we get we have received before all of the house and the senate and signed by president bush in two thousand and six once you have the

sight and the next challenge is how do you select the designer how do you come up with what the design should be and then that brings you to a different phase of different focus a different mission and we decided because of our small size the limited resources we needed to test untrue process tried process and for that we went to gsa general services administration in use their design excellence program because it had been used so successfully so we used that june when a wallop from florida for applicants a final set of seven reduced to seven to four and then made a final choice and those the answering where the more it will be what the memorial will be then gives you the opportunity to think about how and when you can get it built and that's a sequence of activities we've been and in each of them have their own attendant requirements and how did you choose a designer the designer was chosen to this

design excellence program this site as i will have an opportunity to explain is an extremely complex site and it's very difficult to kind of challenge from an architectural viewpoint this i was chosen because of its particular apartments through the eyes of a legacy and then the complexity of this i was not the reason to choose or not choose a but it was chosen because about three related literally to be a legacy itself so the commission decided that they wanted as a designer the memorial competence at the highest possible level they could get so they decided to have firms that would submit our portfolios so forty four architectural firms submitted portfolios to this design excellence program known within that was a board a prestigious architects not commission commission members the more prestigious architects of protest that we had some observer representation and

david eisenhauer the president grants and sat on this as well but are we were not the larger decision makers in these panels then recommended to the commission what they felt was the the best of the proposal either the location of the memorial is this eisenhower square this is a four acre rectangle at the base of the capitol this is the capital of the united states this is maryland avenue maryland avenue runs through the site as it now stands over here is the national mall so we're not on the mall were fond of saying that we are building and i can't i across the street this is independence avenue across the street from the national wall it's a very large space what you might consider first use a prestigious real estate at the base of the

united states capitol there are irregular building alliances and i'm even this harmonious asymmetrical dimensions to what this is about what the designer of the memorial has done is created an urban green space and deep find it with calm center holding stainless steel tapestries which are evocative of the kansas landscape and of the heartland the trees and the grain that you see here are kansas species trees which are harmoniously put into this pot to be in harmony with the images you see on the tapestries and then in the center of this area is the memorial itself when the final seven architectural firms came to walk this site that was one thing that they agree on this is a tough side

how do you bring it to realize this complex legacy and it was out of that that this evolved i'd like to point out to you why this i was and on this very briefly chosen here you have the faa eisenhower nineteen fifty a year you have the national air and space museum recall massive nineteen fifty eight he had the voice of american studios will down there by eisenhower nineteen fifty four who is it that creates a department of health education and welfare eisenhower here you have the department of education health and human services here a great location for eisenhower at the base of the capital of the united states in of all american presidents eisenhower was notable for its respect for the congress of the united states and the people of the united states not really according to arrest me from harvard when i say that so if you are let's

say on the top of the new nasa word space museum this is what you would see this green urban park within which sits here the memorial the president eisenhower so if you were to go to the end of the memorial site the farthest distance away from the capital you were to look to the capitol building here is what you would see a beautiful la of trees and says the city's trees framing maryland avenue and training then the capital of the united states where you would see this role columns which have then as part of their dimensions stainless steel tapestry which is behind these green trees here you see another call over here the memorial itself has evolved through time you have both the general and the president these are large stone blocks approximately twenty six feet high and you have heroic size bronze

statues of the general and this is evocative of the famous photograph on ice and are on the fifth of june nineteen forty four on the eve of d day or we hear you have the american president the imagery here is definite i believe there's no question that the background now will be the normandy beaches in bar relief with us bronze statues in front or we hear the jet the president to similarly be in front with the appropriate while relief in the back not fully decided now as part of what the designer believes is the eisenhower story being the american story he believes as he must by law have the general and the president together because it's a really a single monument it has not to monuments and his sense of the unity of this is to have a life size you know eisenhower having within his call of vision the general and the president he will become

and here the present time he is having the young eyes and are on this wall or which is in front of the department of education and stretches this distance here in general the president and the allies and are having within his goal a vision the general and president he will become remarkable in this is the designers believe in the heartland you'll see in the background here than images which artistically presented in a tapestry which is transparent we don't have time to demonstrate that to you tonight i heard the designer speak about this design personally and disney hall just a year ago and at that time he said something i'd never heard him say before but i know he deeply believes it he said for the first time we're going to bring middle america to the capital of the united states' afterwards i

said just a very frank i never heard you say that before i know he believes it intensely he believes that the landscape of the heartland is a metaphor for america itself and deeply a part of what eisenhower was about thanks for giving me a chance to use lana design juggling or never buying to see that on now there's been some controversy with the design some of the family have objected to it there's been some objections are in congress at a beta cell world that is in a lot of commissions doing about the commission cause been in existence of a while it was the legislation dates from nineteen ninety nine and was fully appointed in two thousand and one and that seems like a long time but one must put it in the context of other memorials the fdr memorial took forty four years to complete the world war two memorial from the day he constituents asked congresswoman marcy kaptur

why isn't your war tomorrow from that point it was finished with seventeen years we've been in existence in a working sense in suits two thousand and one so decade plus oh we're very conscious of that period of time that we actually have made really very good progress by billy slows other standards and our progress continued to be i think effective and efficient and moving fairly him it rapidly in a comparative sense up until december two thousand eleven and it was in december two thousand and eleven that led david eisenhower the president's grandson resigned from the commission with his resignation of the family asked for a bit to have additional input on the process and then there were some select members of congress that did the commission then decided to delay and pause and a pause for a number of months in the meantime work on different elements of that design activities continued but the commission did pause to receive these other

inputs in that intervening period of time then frank gehry met with susan and eisenhower in washington dc i happened to attend that particular meeting david was coming but they said he was unable to to join us at the last minute that being in a series of other meetings and took place that meeting was followed then by being of the commission's executive committee well with susan a man and at that time the center roberts asked in the commission supported his working directly with the family which he did for an extended period of time that process went on and led to a meeting with the secretary of the interior ken salazar which was subsequently followed by another meeting with the president pro tem of the senate center in a way when he was alive in in that role that cycle of meetings led to a number of employees and that

frank gehry that may change some changes to the design oh one of the inputs from the family and from some select members of congress was that the designer was not being bold enough about eisenhower's greatness that the bar relief images were too subtle to ma honest in their appreciation of the general the president so what the designer did is he took the general out of a wall if you will by relief and made the general a heroic bronze nine foot tall statue did the same with the president took them out of the bar really and perform the same act so from the commission's viewpoint and by the way a commission like those changes they thought they were good and positive result of this process and they were very emphatic about that so those changes were made however another dimension that was criticized by different points there some people to believe that the

stainless steel tapestry is not a good idea but it is not just the idea of a tapestry it's also the idea of the landscape that the landscape somehow diminishes the status of the president and the general of the designer does not believe that you heard me just present his view that he believes the landscape as a powerful metaphor for what i see are really represented so the some of the critics of the process including the family have said that they would prefer that there not be a tapestry that fairly definite about that that the designer has said that he believes the tapestry is fundamental and believes committed he's committed to the landscape the commission is one that continues to remain open to the process but they said to us is a staff you need to continue the process that we started ten years ago stay on this continuing tracks and just this week in the topeka newspaper center roberts presented his views of the status of that

discussion so if any of your audience is interested i'd suggest a couple of take a look at his comments which came out this week one here actually and it's his view of where that process stands also very good i'm going to ask one more question that all opened up to everyone's questions than answers but general obviously you've been involved in this for some time tom play a little monday morning quarterback course if you could go back and change that we didn't get anything the commission doing is reading that you had try to change or modify or the process well they commissioned for a regional effort was intended to be as inclusive as possible what anytime you have dissonance and controversy i think that's a degree of evidence that somehow you could've done you know better with that process if i had the opportunity somehow to have an

import which would diminish that dimension that would've been i think in retrospect for me a useful like to take i'm not quite sure what that would be oh having the presence of the presidents grandson and members of the eisenhower family at thirteen of our sixteen commission meetings we fell was a sincere effort in that direction but the fact that we have existing challenge and convert controversy suggests but there were things that we could've done perhaps more i think they're saying i wish i could have done would have been to have this great biography allies and i reckon that i'm talking about that would have answered all these questions people would have said of course we need eyes an hour and that would be done so i'm still working on that piece of it to get someone to do this great book and eisenhower it because it truly is an extraordinary story and the big successful portray and this may be a result of meetings like this someone out there is going to do this and then

people will say why haven't they done this and why hasn't already been done i will never forget the first time our chairman and i called on the secretary of the commission of fine arts and we were making courtesy calls the commission had just been set up i would call and charlie us that the commission of fine arts and he had just gone to the battles of completing the world where tomorrow we sat down with this very experience a man who had worked in the war it was sanctioned for years we told him what we were about knee hadn't said a word during the whole conversation he leaned across the table and then the booming bass voice he said when we told them what we wanted to do he said it about time and it's about time we do this very very good let's open it up for your questions for the general local it's only about forty year old guy this teacher says involuntary loss though he was in the general plants and back

in nineteen seventy five we are both a moscow for a few months while people are wired so we commiserated about that for a couple of months oh since you are in the russian feel sorrow and wonder if you might come about eisenhower in the russians may put your finger on professor allan sanders were more snow will historians in russian history and lore forever indebted to him for his insights among others on catching the great i came to eisenhower part because of russia or part of why i'm engaged with eisenhower informed been affected by the cold war as we all were very aware when weir moscow together eisenhower understood the contributions of the russian people to victory in world war two he understood well that it was the russian army

that had bled the german army to death on the eastern front he transcended a narrow definition of himself and was opened to the peoples of the world and exporters sense and that included the russian people he had come to the conclusion as a military officer that nuclear war was unwinnable and he was determined somehow to avoid war between our nations it's immensely unfortunate that the advice he was given was in many ways applaud concerning some of the reconnaissance activities it is undertaking because he could've perhaps and he certainly had the capability to affect the relationship between our countries at a time when it was deeply threatening to the possibilities of our continuing existence he understood all the dimensions of what i'm just describing and at

the same time believe in peace sustain human life an expanding liberty as much as he could he carried that they're in a credible way its a soldier that the russian people understood and accepted even respect in many ways today on the twenty fifth of april i joined american veterans and russian veterans at arlington cemetery to celebrate the anniversary of their meeting in nineteen forty five powerful moment in our national cemetery eisenhower would've respected that immensely and for us as a nation to finally resolve the outstanding issues of the cold war would be something that eisenhower would admire respect he transcended a narrow definition of ourselves and i believe the russian people understood that in a

particular way that no other question how are you able to secure funding for this extremely large objects good question at the funding for national presidential memorials has a history as you might imagine so one of the things that we did when we looked after what we were doing was to examine the history of the funding of national presidential memorials so as you may recall earlier i said there were six another six national presidential memorials the washington jefferson likened it to roosevelt's in the kennedy center three of those six are one hundred percent federally funded most recent the fdr memorial is at now nine percent federally funded when the commission began it's where they thought they would complete the memorial in a shorter period of time and they intended to do with them with federal funding through time and as the process winds and they re examine that and they decided that they wanted to

go ahead with eighty percent federal funding and twenty percent to be raised in the private sector and that's the basic model against wichita is working today carl you told is overrun dinner that i was an honorary were carrion from la apple a gas which you can talk a little bit about the people people stuff that you've been involved in killing the end of the cold war and rotary and the outreach to siberia no serious ok thank you professor get off i told you will that earlier that i had then become attracted to eisenhower in part because of my experience with the russians at the as we're approaching the end of the cold war subsequent to that in his part of that i found to my surprise that even though i felt my country my government was not doing some of the things that might

usefully do which is another subject that at the end of the cold war that there were americans and canadians that were reaching out to siberia and this began before the end of the cold war and to my great surprise they were doing community building in siberia it was primarily a rotary activity i knew very little about that but as it turned out they did not have russian specialist particularly available to advise and so i was asked would i assist with that and i thought well i was curious and i was interesting in for the price of a bus ticket to train ticket or tank of gas and i'd take a day's leave i began that process and i was absolutely and remain very fascinated by aa because what it meant was several parents began to work with the russians to address some of their major community issues and problems and became an exercise in a form of practical relationships in

democracy that i course now know that ice in our was a great promoter of ice and on one occasion scored by presidents of rotary international as saying the greatest force for peace in the world after the united nations as rotary international in his hometown of abilene made him in honor of jerry and in nineteen forty two and just recently discovered a letter that he wrote to mamie about that and in that letter to mamie he says dear sweetheart i just received news from abilene that they've neglected be an honorary member he said apple ii maybe only four thousand people but i am less a damn glad they've asked me because abilene is my town and then he came to realize is you many of you know that the dimension of reaching out to the people of another country was a very powerful potent force in its own right some

people the people the sister cities program support of rotary international's all of these things were individual activities by citizens which he deeply indirectly respected and promoted as best he could it was a it's a great piece and part of our american history and i was very happy to learn tonight that maybe there's a doctoral dissertation being done on the yard people to people part of this because their lessons there for us today and things that we could be active in yemen and better ways so it's thanks for giving me a chance to get on the soapbox a bit about the path that the answer here that are coral my dad know each other very very well my aunt rosemary and i'm under czarist under strict orders from my father to welcome car overnight say that's a toyota love so bill's father was the president of rotary international rotary international has yet you know is the world's largest international service club

it does more for international education in the united states than the fulbright program the ford foundation programs and all the all the others put together a quietly do that that's what those what they're about in part i didn't even begin to tell you what they've done to wipe out polio in the world which bills father played a hugely important role are all like he's alive that was a brigadier general karl readout of the eisenhower memorial commission speaking with bill lacy of the dole institute of politics at the university of kansas may second two thousand thirteen audio of this event was provided by lawrence pushed of the dole institute from its beginning the eisenhower memorial has been controversial architect and author sam broach is spokesman for a group called right by ike which opposes the eisenhower memorial in its current form and the process by which it was chosen he joins us by telephone from new york city

there really are shovel reveals that if a controversial but we we believe the main reef that it used a very unusual fletcher typically national memorial for the blind to open public competition which unlike anyone who wanted to keep to the milan one the vietnam veterans memorial really didn't practice for national memorial for about thirty years and the first memorial to deviate from that into practice in the wake of that with it he didn't invite the public to dissipate it really only adds registered architects internet flavored goat cities along its resume full day the most experience so we believe that is at the core of why this is so controversial there was no public education in what turned out to be very controversial you've got their process and democratic but when we heard from brigadier general rebel and he stressed over and over again that this was an

approved process well the eyes our commission did use an existing government process of the diplomats want to blanch at the general services administration which over in courthouses and that that program all has been used to find designers for the complex building tight thin coats those complex buildings need people with all the nicks during the assumption behind the program which finds the designer is one of them and a guide to find the terminal out at the time of the uprooted of the divine but there's no real reason that national memorial which robert football building height which in a national market than the time but people were not architects there's a reason to be that it a lot or defined only by phone with experience building complex built right you use only democratic because it was only registered architects reconfigured and those with long resumes or flavored so

the commission was advertised on one government website that it's led by people seeking government commissions and which requires a subscription so there's not going to be open to the public again the public was invited to create not only restaurant attacks were so it was for the democrats and that you know drew forty four introduced the proposed in june forty four applications well steve martin luther king memorial drew nine hundred johnson admitted by members of the public or to their moral injury drew four hundred we have increase in new hundred and forty fourth submission by iran struck the text so that hardly reflect the level of the patient and it is usual for national memorials to an effort that was not democratic and undemocratic do you think what the final approved project would be would now be different had this process the more democratic well one of the major differences between the way

this process happen in the way they usually happen is that refineries typically for that defined anonymously so you can have and one you want to find all that they're going to put up on a in a room together and they're and the best one is picked by a panel of float you never know who divided and toby and well in this case the divine or whispered first though a famous architect was chosen before he prepared the final fine so it was always that haven't always been connected to one defined her and we did it wouldn't make it into a public competition to get in that's why why the issue of of a famous architect of i mean provincial memorial in and sort of tension created by the designer and go you had a big deal here and that it would be a problem and really created by the project could take

because partly because i'm just curious why was it done that way i don't know why the commission shows that this way in fact this particular selection process has been tried one time in the past this dreadful working memorial and that was such a big public how quiet overall how undemocratic that process what that they overturn it and the names to the public plan competition in practice fields of the precedent this method being tried before and having failed so i don't know why and the circumstances of the eye for moral commission chose the arctic or the different than what your problem is presumably well within that they are well within their authority to do so we do we do for the forty five the top right by congress and they have a greater leeway in selecting out of

it now just because they can do it that it happened but the way they've chosen to do and produce a deeply controversial pipeline so you know whether it's in the best interests of all of those involved who want help no unifying national memorial to follow through with that contention that i met another question here with legal to do it with it would be prudent to do it difficult in the new fee the best friend at the time of the birth process one that really adequately reflect the late fifties but the main question here i think other than whether legal what kind of products would do like i don't mean in terms of divine but i mean in terms of broad agreement which is really what you need when you're building a national memorial is supposed to everyone but our many of our nation's more moray eels controversial at least initially and he gave the vietnam veterans memorial which was very controversial when it was first approved well it's a model that's true but even where you kind of controversial process and recognize the

legitimate through that so that the people who didn't like them to accept it is legitimate and we're in a different place here where the very profitable about a controversial pipeline may not may not have been an appropriate profit from fact that pretty clear that it was not appropriate process to produce such controversial find it and to the second point really the vietnam war is an issue that itself divided the country hoping for a film degree and make that become aural will it will be controversial you know there really is no reason for this week because we're so it provides more of probably one of the most awe can improve building a leader's we had spoke to reporters and he represents a massive intricate we look back on wish we'd rio next alternate days so why is it that this might have for moral to work and have no proof of that that it's going to be something wrong with a leader who fought in common

in terms of broad agreement though to build a memorial but contentious doesn't exactly reflect that legacy about the country this memorial well i one of the main ones and that it's experimental memorial and what i mean by that is that he uses materials and techniques that have never been tried before on that honest deal with bigger than has ever been tried before but that make that a problem for four he approving agency in washington which required by law but something caught the commemorative works back to certify that memorial or are defined more curable and prominent and you don't have an earlier example to be sure your judgment on you have a hard time for certifying that that and three other prominent durable so that one of the problems you're not a problem if they're in another country sudan lived in costs basically

cost at least twice what the original prefer the deadline was supposed to be between fifty five and seventy five million dollars which is about what the other memorials would cost to build today and now a technical center for two million dollars though at least twice before construction began from construction worker usually have major delays and cost overruns so before we even started the place reaching canada's the cost of this is twice what it was supposed to be their thoughts are connected to reflect because usually you have a a memorial would be thwarted time with the problems in public competition which are the second or third entry which provide alternatives to a wonderful work out in this case a designer because of the line he's really been free to work without without fear that the commission might get from an altitude designed to look out for and to control cost now that's not the fault of the for profit but again it is interesting that if it's

directly related to the process so bring us up to date now just last week the us commission on fine arts approved that design as it currently stands where does that leave the controversy is it done is it a done deal well it i think it's important for looking at this specific case to put it in a larger context and that that context those that while while mortals are always controversial and while they're at the path to get to approval of construction basically we find a new way to do that every time we have a national memorial i think that's partly because the process is not a standard i think would be ultimately probably by congress but what you really have every memorial you have a lot of the time which must be approved by two agencies in washington one of the commission of fine art theaters with national capital planning commission and then ultimately it must be approved by congress

in the form of appropriating money for the decline for building that if i vote last week the commission of fine arts it affected votes to this proposed were the first two years were going to go to a weapon and really good mexican or a specific part of the deadline which ended up not doing it actually justin kept reiterating an earlier vote so there really was no forward progress with in the commission of fine arts still have to meet again to certify additional part of this memorial now the national commission the other community has not yet given a preliminary hearing and then doing a corner during testing for the divine she is not prove conclusively that was terrible and prominent to one agency has heard authorities reported that one agency had agreed that congress has been funding for construction of the memorial for the current fiscal year or so one of three po if people want to find out more

about right by it where can we direct them we had a facebook page at facebook dot com slash retired i thought i think or another way to find out about the controversy i wrote an op ed for a conflict or at the beginning of this year in january which lays out our condition oh i think it's very important to contact the two senators from campus for years robert lamb could fit on the eisenhower memorial commission and awed it would be good for them to hear that the public wanted your vulcan reflection of that the time for vietnam memorial sam thank you so much for joining us that sam wrote architects author and spokesman for right by it you can find out more about right by ike on facebook you can find out more about the eisenhower a commission and see sketches of the proposed designed by frank gehry on their website eisenhower memorial doug of it came at entire k pr present is a production of

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