The Rochester I Know; 118; James McCuller

Wow. OK. OK. Now the exact time presents the Rochester. I know. A series of interviews with notable residents of Monroe County and contributors to this area's rich history. Your host is William Pierce. Hello and welcome to the Rochester I know. Our guest today is Mr. James McCall are the executive director for the past 15 years of action for a better community often known as ABC an anti-poverty agency in Rochester. Welcome to the Rochester. You know Jim I'm very happy to see you here we've known each other a long time but we've never had an opportunity to talk to you for a half hour about your career here in Rochester in the Rochester. You know you came here Jim in 1962 so you've been here 20 years. We know you not only have an outstanding reputation as a leader in the community in Rochester but

statewide and also nationally because I know you belong to many national organizations. Jim you came here from I believe Ohio in 1960 to why. I came to Rochester because it was one of the three choices that I had. I had received several fellowships to go on to graduate school from what was then Central State College which is now such a state university. And the choices I had reversed to Toledo the University of Pennsylvania School Finance New York University. For to work on a master's in public administration planning. And I had a very young family at that time and four children all under 4 years old with the most to do with the youngest of the four having been born that August 62 because I graduate in June of 62 and then

came to Rochester because we were looking for a place for the family to stay. I didn't have a job I simply had the fellowship in New York at NYU. And we were looking at how is it possible to go on to NYU and work on a master's and still be sure that the family had the basics of food housing and shelter. My wife's mother lived here. Her sister lived here and her aunt lived here and so this was intended to be a temporary stopping point for my family because we did not intend to make a home here. You came in August 62 and planned on water staying a few months. Yes only to the time I went to NYU and a lot of part of September of 62 to start the graduate program. We were only going to be here until I get located in the York

got a job and saved enough money to bring the family to New York City mazing how people started city Well I think it's very fortuitous for this community. But you did state how did you get connected with action for a better community. That was kind of circuit this route. I didn't start with action for very community. When I withdrew from the university and the latter part of December of 1962 I was jus because my son had tons a lot of time slightest and needed a tonsilectomy and so I was driven to university and came back to Rochester. My first job in Rochester was a stock boy. At the Wegmans and Eastway Plaza. Really. OK very interesting. And I work there because it was quicker than getting a paycheck from a white collar professional position. Thereafter I worked at Bain Street Settlement as a a group worker that I left the settlement house and went to New York at

St. Paul at the Baden Street Settlement. No Bill Hall was worth the Urban League at that time working as the league's business administrator and so I left Main Street and went to New York State Employment Service as a state. Qualified by statewide exam to work as a placement. Job interview at that time. I then left the New York State Employment Service to join action for better community. In June of 1965. At that time I was director of the Neighborhood Youth Corps program. 15:00 you've seen the program. The third largest youth program of a community action agency in state of New York third behind the Community Action organization in Buffalo. I mean and so that's how I got and ABC. Jim what was your first impression of Rochester this program is that the Rochester I know we want you to talk about the Rochester that you know when you first came here you

saw a city that I guess you were seeing for the first time. What was your impression of this town. Well my impression of Rochester was that it. It was really very cold. I didn't feel any warmth in the city of Rochester. That might have been because I started biased there's no question that living early in the South would have been born in the south. It's a slower living pace. People are much more hospitable. Even at that time with the racial segregation being very prevalent. People still speak a good morning how are you. Good are still you in the south even itself. That was always the case people always speak to you. So Rochester didn't I don't mean cold necessarily because of climate certainly this is Eskimo country. But I mean in terms of just a basic openness a basic warmth with people. In addition to that my own climate experience trying to find job here was

not the most encouraging because I passed all of the past the. Civil service exams exams for federal positions interviewing at the professional placements at MIT and they didn't have any jobs and then I went down to the industrial farming industrial section 155 West Main Street and ended up with two job opportunities working out of a horse farm in the barn or working as a stock boy at work and supermarket with members at that time Mr. Ross Barnett who told me that he didn't think there was any possibility of promotion from stock boy to any other position in the supermarket. I had already been the Kodak and the people of Kodak were very nice and said Really thank you but no thanks that they didn't think I was. Qualified for any of the

positions that I see now you recently graduate your undergraduate degree was pre-law with a minor in mathematics history honor student top 15 percent of my class scholarship awards but they thought that I did not meet any of their preconditions for employment. 1962 the economy in Rochester 1962 was I would do very good for you. Well compared to today the economy in Rochester was great. Those were times you could talk about 2.7 percent unemployment rate 3 percent and 4 percent. And you look at what is the case now since they've adjusted the figures we were at I think nine point three eleven point four. It's dropped down because they've taken out of it the people who have stopped looking so glum the rate hasn't gone down they've adjusted the percentages to pay play psychological games but I attitudes about it but it's down to 8.6 So it's more than doubled during halftime so it was that.

Jim let's talk about now your organization briefly and how it got started. ABC action for a better community started in the early 60s. You went to work with them in 1965. I became executive director in nineteen sixty seven sixty seven years after it started. Can you tell us something about the starting or the growing pains of that organization which has become today a huge organization that has I think activities in every section of the city. Well there are a number of tough growing pains. It was really put together by a broad based and very representative black Hispanic and White Citizens Council and fostering corporation and December 1964. It was incorporated and January of 1965. It started with two co-directors at that time Dr. Wachter left and then Dr. Wachter Cooper who was at that time a chemist with Kodak and still is its first director was

Mr. Otis Finlay who was former associate director there of relief of the York. Its second director was a school psychologist Dr. Herbert Greenberg and then I came into being executive director October 1967. That was a very rough and turbulent period within the agency because there was a fairly well organized group of black citizens who challenge the board and the administrations of ABC to make some changes they thought needed to be necessary. They felt they knew they should control it and thought the board and many stormy and tough and rough meetings at that particular point in time created a lot of problems with the stability of the corporation it was a very stable that caused a lot of staff mutiny a lot of difficulties for a lot of people are created and expenditure in the Greenburg administration at least

$500000. Most of that money was intended to go to a Small Business Development Center which was certainly necessary for the low income community of Rochester at that time. So when I came in one of the first jobs I had was to try to get the order in some sense of organization within the corporation and to start the various projects to talking to each other and to try to get the board to recognize that the controversy. It is often a very healthy beneficial catalyst for change. But if that's the only thing you do you're going to be in business. So we had to really work really hard to get that reduced to a point that we could use it very positively not get comfortable not get smug and content and recognize that there are some people who are dissatisfied that Dyson is just as important as

us because that's what reality is. Jim I read somewhere early on that one of your important goals was to develop businesses for the black community for the poor black community. And last night with white rice that one of your That's not quite right. One of the things we need to understand is the objective was to develop businesses for the poor community. OK. It's important to understand that the majority poor in Rochester MUNNELL County are white. Just as more than 60 percent of public welfare in the United States is white. Seventy percent of the nation's poor is white. The fact is the most visible of the poor are black poor. OK but we're not the majority of the poor. So I trust at that time was not to develop black businesses and business ownership for black poor people as it was for people in a

system that fosters it's making money on the sale of income producing goods and materials and services. Then if we're going to talk about self-help self-sufficiency and stuff for lions. I think you have to be earning capital. You do that from businesses ownership. I think you have to take a portion of that capital and invest it in social program benefits. And so yes that was a major objective at that point in time it still is it's just very difficult to get a sustained commitment and investment in the development small businesses. Part of that is because reportedly 92 percent of all small businesses that begin with a capital capitalization under $500000 fail. So it's very tough to do it. Jim we're going to get back that in a minute but I want to get back to the history of Rochester and

and your participation a little bit. You came in 62 two years later we had the so-called riots here and I just wonder if you want to reflect on those for a minute. And they do the principals who are involved in what the outcome was in terms of the organization of the of the the fight organization. You just want to trace that those events. Whether or not the fight organization was a viable organization your mind didn't contribute anything. Well the riot really started on Joseph Avenue. Live between hand and Kelly Street right on just Avenue which is roughly less than a quarter mile from bage did some of her work. So in fact I was in the riot area that night when the riots started as a street dance of more than 600 people. And initially a fight between a couple of persons at the dance and that same

player came through that area at roughly 7:30 and you could drive down those better news at about 10:30 that evening it had just exploded. There were a number of events which led to it. And it's hard for. A community outside of a enraged a group of poor people largely at that point black and Hispanic to understand the kind of powder keg existence that they lead. And it's more difficult in a community wherein it is considered affluent and last two days we've had an article indicated that we're one of the wealthiest communities in the country. One of the wealthiest counties I believe I'm not wrong it said fifth in terms of wealth in the state of New York at least with more than 60

counties. So it's difficult for people to understand how one can be enraged to the point of rioting because you're being left out and you can't get in. Even though people say the doors are open you can't get in. So that was a very tough period and we put together a group of about 10 black men and really stopped the riots that night and the next day with the next couple of days we got the police chief Lombard to authorize us to take over the responsibility for that section of the community. Who are some of the other people who worked with you on that. Well there are a number of them. Charles Hatcher Dunn fraction. Jerome Blake Howard. Jones There are just number of people that were involved in that and it worked very well because we got people to understand that burning down the apartments and living

areas of people of the store front businesses would not lead to the dignity of individuals as well. If I don't as I say many of us need to understand we still need to fight today actually for better community is now a black organization. We're simply black run. We have a multi racial staff. Blacks and Hispanics are white and one time we had several Native American Indians on the stand. So the fight organization was a significant turning point within this community. And it contributed to the wealth of development to the racial progress of this community. Tell us briefly who some of the principals were and who organized that or the fight organization the sort of the principal elements was a Presbyterian church community that they financed at least $200000 a contract to

hire Saul Alinsky to come in. He was based in Chicago. He was a paid consultant. So all of this was more than a paid consultant. He was paid to train and developer and really brought. His organization here to develop the fight organization the first president and leader of the federalization was minister Franklin Florence. Very very. Dynamic and inspirational person. I generally tell people if they had not been a minister Frank in Florence they would not have been a gem of color in this community. Why is that. What did the minister Florence have to do with you Mr. Florance has so much depth so much insight and he has a collective toughness and substantive quality that he certainly further activated my own drive in my own

interest to be independent aggressive black citizen in this community. You have been that. Jim you've been in the community 20 years. You've had some programs that obviously you wish had turned out better and some that you can you'd like to point to with pride. What progress have you seen in which programs that you helped get in you institute or you helped get started. What are what can what can you point to with the most pride will say well there really are several of them and let me just pick for five minute people don't know that kid X came out of a group that I had a strong hand then call the Rochester Consortium for media justice. When we filed in May of

1972 the first petition to deny a license renewal to all of the commercial radio and television stations in Rochester. We in our petition documented before the Federal Communications Commission here and state that Rochester had the largest nonwhite community in the nation without any particular radio or television station programming to its interest. Very significant that is news to me. OK so all I knew about the vets rights was awarded to a black company money account a broadcasting company that had ninety five thousand dollars in escrow for five years and had not been able to get the Federal Communications Commission to make a decision on awarding the last FM radio frequency to money out of broadcasting over three other white competitive groups. We've also were responsible in starting one of the first neighborhood health centers in upstate New York. The Anthony L. Jordan health center it was in the 20s Vienna Street and what was

then head of houses it subsequently built at the Neil Jordan health center on Hudson Avenue. We were heavily involved in the development of a prepaid group practice network called a minor kind of a wood health service. It's now called the Rochester Health Network. We were a primary mover in the mult up Purpose recreation center at 700 North Street. So when you look around we've been very very instrumental in a number of significant achievements. I was the national negotiator for the National Black Media Coalition which I helped to found. And November 12th of 1973 where in we cause the sale I one of the first VHF televisions in the country to a black Communications Group Benny broadcasting headed by Reagan Henry a black attorney. We

would just be a T.S. Channel 10. So there are a number of things to point to in that regard. But Jim now 20 years. Have you seen any changes in the community you represent yourself as being a representative of the poor in this community black white Hispanic Native American whatever. Now you just say throw a big party. Yeah I said I don't think I want to look for but if you see that are you any change in the city. Yeah I think you indicated that 64 is a certain smugness that was evident to you or certain oversight if you will by the establishment about the condition of the poor in the community. You think there's there been any changes in perception or attitude or whatever. Bill there's no question and there have been significant

changes. I was hesitate to really talk about what the changes of ban. For two reasons the first one is that people begin to think that there's really no reason to continue to work in the second one is that it's difficult to motivate people if you keep talking about how things good things are. But there's been a number of changes I don't think that we have made as much progress as we could have made. And I'll be specific in a moment. I don't think we've made the progress as fast as we could make it. There's no question if you look at the school board now for the first time in history there are three non-whites of schoolbooks to blacks and Hispanics there at the present time to blacks and say counsel their black judges. The first time in history a community first black Supreme Court justice from the seven judicial district we have and we've got the first black superintendent of schools. We have not Max amassed the kind of progress in corporate business

executives positions. We haven't made the advances in city and county government that we ought to make in terms of department heads who make decisions at this point at their assistance to somebody there from out of action offices we have an e-mail account in Monroe. Black is one one of kind of humiliations commission you know a person is talented and has a lot to contribute that commission really does not play a major role in any of the county's decisions they have one black major black administrator in the sense of the commission of the partner social services. I mean after you leave his office you can fall down to three levels before you find another influential black decision maker. Now you might say well why is that necessary. One of the things that is very troubling for white America even though we constitute about twelve point five percent of the nation's population and that is the continued

quiet subtle racism that says why did ministry have the competence to lead and manage everybody. Black administrate is only have the competency to lead in men it's black people. And so it's very unnecessary for white people even more than black and certainly black people to be exposed to black confidence because I maintain that black confidence black skills black talent a marketable all of the world. And if we move business enterprise to outer space it will be marketable in outer space. Jim thanks. Do your sons tonsilectomy you stay here. I think contributed to some of this progress thats been made I know you are not happy with the with the rate of progress today but I know you're largely responsible for much of the progress that has been made in this Rochester sesquicentennial year what you see for the future. I think we've got to work a lot harder than we have. I think we've got to

generate a coordinated planning. I think we've got to forecast better. I think we've got to expose the depth and substance of our problems and start long term solutions. Band-Aids aren't going to help our community. So we've got to generate additional businesses in Rochester. We've got to maintain a competitive confidence to bring other businesses here. We've got to expand the base of ownership. We've got to TCS expand the base of leadership. At this point Jim the caller thanks very much. Our guest today has been James McCall executive director of action for a better community. Thank you I'm Bill Pierce. Join us next time for the Rochester I know. Thank.

You. For a VHS copy of those programs and 1995 plus $3 and 50 Cent shipping and handling to the Rochester I know table for a post office box 21 Rochester New York 1 4 6 0 1. Include a note with the name of our guest and the program number shown at the bottom of the screen.