1370 Connection; Seneca Falls

The case but he didn't want to elaborate. The Attorney General has determined that there is sufficient legal merit in their position that they ought to be represented and they are pursuing their case which they have a right to do. And I believe that they should speak for themselves. And I should not energetic myself into it. But the president made it very clear what he thought about the appeals court ruling yesterday in his opinion Judge Laurence Silberman said the president's agents have declared war on the independent counsel. The president said that's simply not true. And referring to the fact that Silberman is a conservative Republican the president asked reporters to consider the source of those comments. Mara Liasson NPR News the White House. A spokesman for the Israeli defense ministry said today that the defense minister will meet Sunday with a top Palestinian official in an effort to break the deadlock in peace talks between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The meeting is to be held in Tel Aviv. Negotiations between the two parties broke down 16 months ago at a United Nations conference in Rome. Representatives of 160 nations are locked in tough negotiations. They're trying to make a midnight deadline to produce a statute on the

world's first war crimes tribunals. NPR's Sylvia Poggioli reports. The conference chairman chatted of cheers and handed delegates a final draft. Early this morning to take. IT OR LEAVE IT statute proposal yielded to some big powers demands to limit the court's jurisdiction. But it appeared to fall short of U.S. demands to keep the court on a tight leash. It does include a provision allowing states signing the treaty to opt out of the court's jurisdiction over war crimes for seven years but not also from jurisdiction over crimes against humanity. As the U.S. had wanted this morning several delegations were summoned to a meeting with the American delegation. Human rights activists who are lobbying for a strong and independent court fear the U.S. will press to ensure the conference before a vote can be taken by tonight's midnight deadline. Sylvia Poggioli NPR News Rome. On Wall Street this hour prices are up the Dow Jones Industrial Average is up six and a half points the NASDAQ is up 34 points. The S&P 500 is up two point

thirty four points trading is moderate. You're listening to National Public Radio News. In NPR's business update stock prices are hovering close to the record highs set yesterday after investors were encouraged by a series of strong corporate earnings reports. NPR's Corey Flintoff reports. In the early going at least investors were playing it safe despite more positive earnings news that came in late yesterday. Microsoft Sun Microsystems and PepsiCo all posted better than expected earnings for the second quarter. Microsoft said quarterly profits were up by 28 percent mostly on the strength of sales of its Office 97 business software and its windows and operating system. A group led by Las Vegas billionaire Kirk Kerkorian said today that it has cut its stake in Chrysler Corporation from just under 90 million shares to just under 80 million. The group said it sold the shares to avoid adverse tax effects. If Chrysler goes through with a proposed merger with Germany's dimer Benz

Corey Flintoff NPR News Washington. The trade deficit ten point three percent in May to fifteen point seventy five billion dollars a new record. Analysts blame the struggling Asian economies where fewer American products are being sold. Domestic demand for foreign products remains high. The European parliament voted today to require airlines to pay more to passengers who are bumped because of overbooking. Members also voted to mandate that the overbooking rules be displayed and be written in plain and intelligible language. That plan must still be approved by European Union transport ministers and then voted on by the Assembly a second time updating stock prices are higher on Wall Street this hour. The Dow Jones Industrial Average is up seven points the NASDAQ is up six points the S&P 500 is up 2. I'm nore RAAM National Public Radio News in Washington. Support for NPR comes from Borders Books and Music where imaginations can run wild.

Over 200 locations nationwide 800 6 4 4 7 7 3 3 support for a m 13 7 day is provided by in part Canada a National Bank and Trust with a full range of commercial trust and investment and consumer services at 18 State Street in the village of Pittsford. This is a I'm 13 70 WXXI I'm Bill Flynn a 12 06 with Seventy six degrees and cloudy skies in Rochester with US Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala praising a wave of women's dignity sweeping through American life. Women and men gathered this morning to rededicate themselves to the declaration of sentiments signed 150 years ago. They met at the Women's National Historical Park in Seneca Falls site of the original women's rights convention back in 1848. They heard pioneering 20th century feminist body for Dance say that women don't yet have total equality but are close to it. How like women are now making 74 cents on the dollar for what every man made. That's not complete equity. If we begin to have really

good childcare programs and a really good notion of men sharing the parity then the remaining inequity. I think maybe just called for a national childcare program as the final step needed for equality between men and women and said Americans is the only place for industrialized country that doesn't have one. HHS Secretary Shalala was first to sign the rededication of the Declaration of sentiments and says there are now more women setting national policy than ever before. Picture this after a cabinet meeting. There's Madeleine Albright and Janet Reno and Alexis Herman and Carol Browner and Eva Alvarez and Janet Yellen and Charlene Barshefsky and me. It's downright crowded in the women's half. Plato says these women are reordering and national priorities and redefining the needs of families signers at the rededication ceremonies pledge to realize the goals of the Declaration of sentiments in the 21st century. Supporting total equality between men and women.

Hillary Clinton and Governor George Pataki were the keynote speakers at the opening of celebrate ninety eight in Seneca Falls yesterday a site where more than 300 men and women gathered in 1848 for the first convention on women's rights 100 of them signed the Declaration of sentiments document which helped start the women's suffrage and women's rights movements. Mrs. Clinton said the declaration of sentiments first spoken at Seneca Falls and 1848 still holds true today. We can still hear its echoes today. We can hear it in the voices of women demanding their full civil and political rights anywhere in the world. I've heard such voices and their echoes from women from Belfast to Bosnia to Beijing. During her address Mrs. Clinton stressed the importance of women to get out and exercise their hard fought right to vote. Thirteen seventy connection with Bob Smith is next on WXXI I am 13 70. On the road this afternoon in Seneca Falls from noon through 2:00 o'clock for updates and interviews plus your phone calls.

Nine minutes after the hour let's get the latest from Wall Street with sage Reddy and company and noontime the Dow Jones. Dow Jones. Industrial Average says that nine thousand three hundred thirty and have to hand 116 on a volume of 307 million. AT&T is at fifty nine to five sixteenths down one quarter. Forty six and three eights down nine sixteenths Charter One Financial is at thirty four and five AIDS one half is an accounting chemicals of 16 to 59 and thirteen sixteenths Eastman Kodak 85 916 minus one and seven sixteenths Exxon at seventy one and three eighths. No change. Fleet 88 in one quarter three quarters. Frontier is down seven sixteenths at thirty six and five sixteenths going at 68 916 down three 8s. General Motors sixty nine and fifteen sixteen down three sixteenths. General signals down to at 38 and 116 Paris at forty two and five each down one quarter.

Home properties in New York twenty six and seven sixteen point eight IBM and ninety one thousand in the half one in one eight inner vest bank shares 12 and 3. Quarter's no change. Johnson Johnson seventy seven and nine sixteenths three sixteenths mobile 75 and 116 down 1 1/2. Northern Telecom is down 70 to 55 and a half. The A C corps seven and nine sixteenths down five sixteenths paychecks forty three and three eights 380 performance technologies ten and three quarters no change by chance guess Selectric 30 and seven eights down 1 8. Teleport communications fifty five and five a stone eight us slick or twenty five and seven eight point sixteen Verimark eight and three sixteenths no change. Xerox at one twelve and a quarter three and three sixteenths. This is Denzel to Sage Ridge. Ready. Company support for the stock report is provided by Sage Reddy and company

offering total financial solutions including retirement estate and financial planning. Long term care insurance and traditional investment services since 1015 sage ready creating and preserving wealth for generations. Rochester weather better than yesterday some rain is in the forecast partly sunny skies expected still warm and humid with scattered showers and or thunderstorms in the area. Today's high 80 to 85 and becoming mainly clear overnight lows in the mid 50s for Saturday mostly sunny less humid. Tomorrow's high in the upper 70s and for the rest of the weekend mostly sunny skies for Sunday lows 60 to 65. Highs 80 to 85. It's 12 12 in your two to WXXI is thirteen seventy connection support for thirteen seventy connection is provided by Tyra associates general contractors committed to customer service and satisfaction since 1979 to hire associates offers a full range of residential and commercial construction services to the greater Rochester area by the women's center of the Borg Imaging Group providing mammography ultrasound and osteoporosis

evaluation services. The Borg imaging group dedicated to care and compassion committed to clinical excellence and by the estate of Doris h Roberts. Connection to six three ninety nine ninety four. Got a line open for you right now. Just a few minutes will be the first series and we're going to be setting in perspective various aspects of the issues and the history of the 150 years of the women's movement since it all began literally a century and a half ago tomorrow in Seneca Falls New York. And what we might want to do while waiting for our first guest arrive and we'd like to hear from you of course at 2 6 3 6. A big question that maybe you can answer from your own perspective and I'd be curious to hear what you have to say on this and that is

how far and how far do we have yet to go. You're going to hear conversation later on in the course of the program that I had not long ago with Betty for Dan who some say is the founding mother of the current feminist movement with her book Feminine Mystique 35 years ago. And she said that in a sense once the childcare problem is solved and then men and women really are equal partners in the raising of children and the society gives the support that's necessary for kids to be raised properly and allow everybody to work that what they need to do then the promised land may very well be close at hand. I don't know if you agree with that or not but it's an interesting thought that that may be the one biggest remaining barrier there is come a long way. Question is have we come far enough and I'd like to hear from you as to whether or not from your perspective from your experience we've come far enough how far you think we have left to go until we reach what I think most of us would agree at least I hope most of us would agree is that promised land where everybody has an equal shot

at anything that their ambition and their talent will permit them to do. And I hope you agree with me that that's the goal. And if you believe that's the goal. I'd like to know from you how far we've come in your lifetime and how far we have yet to go and also get your thoughts on what we need to do what we need to accomplish in order to finish the work that was begun one hundred fifty years ago. And I've heard a number of comments miss there was a comment you may have heard in yesterday's program from Maxine Childers Brown who was a member of the city council for a number of years been active in city government. She was kind of pessimistic about it and said it might never happen that there might always be some residual prejudice or resistance. And you've heard many others many of her counterparts in local government the national government you're going to hear more of them say that maybe just maybe it's close at hand. I hope they're right about that. But I'd like to know from your point of view just where we've come how far we've come and how far we have yet to go. I was thinking about that too in light of the tremendous

courage that it must have taken for that group of roughly 100 women and a few men were there too. To sign that declaration back in 1848 at a time when how few people were thinking even along these lines the big issue of that stage is an extremely important one in 1848 was the abolition of slavery and tackling the racism in the society something which also incidentally is very much an finished business in our country today that we've come a long way I meant to and then this new agenda came up. That was almost off the charts before hand but for the last hundred fifty years it's been almost a continuous part of the public dialogue. It had to have taken tremendous courage and foresight for those people to gather together and to make their declaration them. And it's just fascinating to me that they were able to do it at such an early stage in our history and our development as a nation.

Thank you for your thoughts on that. 2 2 6 3 WXXI 2 6 3 ninety nine ninety four join us and thirteen seventy connection we'll be joined in just a few minutes. Folks you can set all of these issues and more in both a historical and a contemporary perspective and as I said you're going to be hearing later on from a number of people who are very active in the movement today including its founding member Betty Friedan. And one of the sparkplugs of today's feminist movement Eleanor Smeal is former president of NOW and currently the head of the fund for the Feminist Majority talking about the next stage agenda. And there's lots more coming along to 263 WXXI for your participation on thirteen seventy connection tell you a little bit incidentally about what's going on right now just a few minutes ago. They launched the need commitment to the original principles of the Declaration of sentiments for the 21st century they're signing on to our advice and updated but nonetheless very crucial restatement of the principles the goals and the objectives of today's movement for progress and

women's rights. And Donna Shalala Health and Human Services secretary speaking along with Betty Friedan along with Eleanor Smeal along with a number of other participants from local and national governments. And later on today there will be special discussions here in Seneca Falls concerning working women in issues of labor involving women as well. We'll be talking about those issues during the course of this program as well. And we'll be talking with you too will also be talking about the various generational. Issues that are going on right now will be talking with younger women who may have an even different and more progressive agenda that they'll be following in the years to come. And of course we'll be looking backwards we'll be talking with people who have been very active in chronicling and setting in perspective the history of the last hundred fifty years as well who look forward to that. We also expect to anticipate the next hour we will be sharing at least some time discussing contemporary politics with someone who's very much involved in politics the current lieutenant governor and the gubernatorial hopeful

Betsy McCaughey Ross who will be joining us here in the course of next hour on the program. There's a lot of action to look forward to and you can be a part of it. You can be a part of it starting right now with your perspectives. Dial 2 6 3 WXXI 2 6 3 9 9 9 4 and you will be a part of the program and we hope you'll have something to say. Hope you'll have some perspectives to share concerning the last hundred fifty years how they touch your life. Since the women's movement began of course none of us have lived through the entire hundred fifty year history certainly of the women's movement. But most of us have seen the current generation of leadership and the current agenda of issues unfold over the last 5 10 20 30 years or more and know how that relates to and how that is in a sense an attempt to finish the unfinished business begun in Seneca Falls exactly a century and a half ago. It's being commemorated right now. And what I would be curious to know from you. What I think would be is especially important to hear from you right now is what do you think we've

accomplished and what must yet be done. What do we need to do. What should be the next item of business. Do you have an opinion on that and I bet you do. Now our number to express it is 2 6 3 WXXI 2 6 3 9 9 9 4. We will be looking forward to it. And incidentally we had a call come in and offer just a moment ago which is raises an interesting point which is that one problem how you're going to really respond to this is one problem our caller says is women don't respect other women. There's too much generalization about quote women's issues and women's rights. Not all women agree on the issues. That comment offered for what it's worth that's an intriguing one which I wish our caller had stayed on a little bit longer to explain that a little bit further only because I have a I have a funny feeling of the visit a lot there that I wish we could have explored a bit further. But none the less you'll be invited to make your comments as well as to

6:03 WXXI to 6:03 ninety nine ninety four I mention incidentally a moment ago the comments made by Betty for Dan who may very well qualify as the founding mother of the modern feminist movement of the last generation starting with her book feminist mystique back in one thousand Feminine Mystique back in 1963. I want to share with you now some a conversation we had a little while ago before she appeared at the rededication recommitment ceremony here at the Women's Rights park just within the past hour so we'll hear that right now. We're speaking with Betty for a day and who as much as anybody may very well be the founding mother of the modern women's movement of the last 35 years. I want to ask you Ms for them. First of all as you go around here you see the huge attendance and the huge interest today and also the exhibit it's got to be tremendously gratifying as I know it is indeed I. Am very moved. It brings me almost to the verge of tears to see this celebratory spirit and then to see also.

So I've never really. You know been through all this and to see how well the history is celebrated. And then to see the feeling again today about it. It moves me enormously. And of course since 1963 when that groundbreaking book first came out and hit the bestseller list then I guess it's fair to say a lot of progress has been made a lot of doors have opened generally haven't they. Oh of course it has. I was thinking the other day that. We could almost pull up our skirts and declare victory and move on. When I saw that women are getting equal number of professional degrees as men now there are only 74 cents on the dollar for what men make. The discrepancy begins that child bearing child rearing years. And now that President Clinton has come out for a national childcare program I

think you may be eradicated. It's still designing jobs and careered ascendancy in terms of the lives of the men whose wives took care of all those details of life. Now men don't have anymore either or women and be dated United States not an advanced nation and this is moving toward a national childcare program. And then I think you are going to see women move to true equality full equality with men. Already they are getting the same number of women same number of professional degrees as man. And I guess that seventy. Four cents on the dollar which really. Begins in the child rearing years will once we get a good care system going to as it is now women are equity at the beginning and mid-levels of

all professions it's only at the top. And I think that will change and a lot of more friendly family friendly policies. Public policy as well as corporate policy will change that. Oh I think. The government under Clinton is is it is taking good steps. There have been executive orders you know as far as federal workers in anything under the executive order to remove any of these impediments to equality. And I think in a way and I will say this that we could put up our skirts and declare victory and move on except for one thing. They're for real equality children and they care of children will have to be as much men's responsibility as women. It it you know it's kind of just oh it's all the mother.

It's equally the mother and the father and society that that never really was equitable would become right down to it was it. But the the way the men kind of just walked away through most of it right in other words you won't have equality in this country until children are considered equally man's responsibility. A. Couple of things are coming out of this there's going to be a new declaration of sentiment for example that that comes out of these proceedings here and now there's been a new call for legislation to accomplish what the Equal Rights Amendment. Almost did. That's good that you know all about is good. And I think it would it should pass because look you will look at the figures. Women in Dubai have really elected Clinton President United States it was a largest gender gap in history it was over a 20 point gender gap. Women are a formidable force you know and.

They this 74 cents on the dollar that they make and the fact that they are now the majority of voters. The fact that they had the power to elect a president if it's already made it 30 quid would be present. And that and that he was and that they elected Clinton because he stood for policies and programs that he had introduced and continues to introduce in support of women. So I the next thing is a woman president OK. We shall see sooner rather than later Mr. Dan. Thank you very much. Our conversation just a short time ago with Betty for Dan the author of course of The Feminine Mystique and some say the founding mother of the modern feminist movement of the last generation. There's a certain 70 connection I'm Bob Smith with you and WXXI 13 70 and we're broadcasting from the women's rights National Historical Park at Seneca Falls where right around they celebrate 98 the observations of the 100 50th anniversary of the modern feminist movement are going on right now and we of course invite you to

call in to talk about from a personal aspect for a personal reminiscence or personal observation if you will. What do you believe it's had in terms of an impact on your life. That's as easy as dad gets up at 2 6 3 WXXI 2 6 3 9 9 9 4 another caller called in just just a little while ago with a with a thought coming in from Rochester in a car phone saying what about the way the sediments in expectations have changed over the last hundred fifty years. An interesting question to which of course as we most of us can't answer and none of us can answer from personal experience if you studied the period historically at all you do get a sense that the ambitions have certainly grown as I think all of our ambitions have grown. And the good news about it is of course that as you as you look at the progress of the last hundred fifty years even of a declaration of sentiments on the board you get a sense I think more than anything else that people

have really become more and more ambitious about about what they want to do what they hope to be able to do. That's the good news and the good news is they have a feeling that people now understand that this agenda is going to happen it's only a question of when rather than if eight hundred forty eight. I don't think you could have said that. I don't think there's any way you could have said that so in that sense you certainly have come a great deal that 263 WXXI 263 ninety nine ninety four. I'm Bob Smith with thirteen seventy connection delighted to be joined right now by Jesse Fernandez who is the current superintendent the women's rights national park who literally is in charge of everything around us here as as we continue this practice just good to have you with us welcome to the program today thanks for joining us. It's great to be here I don't know about being in charge that's what they tell me that I am but I know who is in charge and that's a staff. And you're doing a heck of a good job. And I want to give them credit because without them we would not be able to do as good a job in preserving and protecting and educating people about the events of 1848. So that

credit to them anything that goes wrong I'll take the blame. OK very good glad that we've got that established in advance that of course your comments are 263 WXXI very much welcome as well. I want to talk talk soup of there's so many things that I want to talk about. Looking at the past that's being commemorated all around us not only the ceremonies today and for the next few days but just as an ongoing basis. And suppose you do something for me first and that is give us sort of like a radio walk through it all the radio thumbnail tour of what you would see if you came here. What what really what you would get rather than what you would feel is this. Electrifying passion throughout the entire village of Seneca Falls. There are events literally every minute of the day throughout the village. Obviously I'm sitting here in the in the national park and I'm an intern been intimately involved in the events that we are staging here from declaration Park

and at the Elizabeth Cady Stanton house and at the chapel in the West Lane chapel. But anyone who comes to Seneca Falls within the next four days will be able to get a real good feel of the advancements to this state of women and girls and to how much of their Still there is to be done. Back then of course I guess the demands on the immediate agenda were were very basic being able to vote and participate being able to have your own property and control to a certain degree over your own life to that to the degree that a man would have been a man expected to in those days it's kind of hard to imagine but not so long ago. Live in the history of this country. I guess bottom line is a woman was virtually property of her husband once she married is over. It's a terrible thing to say but at one time it was true wasn't it. Yes and in fact I don't know that it was that much of an incentive to get married because if you own property the minute that you said I do you would have to give it up. So in that in that

sense who would want to. You became a non-person so to speak in the in law or in economics or in anything that many of us today would think would matter let's say but that's hard to imagine just make the imaginative leap back to that time and the more the reason then for them to just state their grievances which is what they call them to be into a pattern those grievances as they were stated and put forth in a written document patterned them after the Declaration of Independence because independence had not been fully achieved equality had not been fully achieved. I wonder. This must have have resonated very strongly when you came here what was it that made you decide this is a facility with which I want to be and must be associated. Well for me it was if you will a little bit of luck and a little bit of timing I was the superintendent of another national park and my boss basically tapped me on the shoulder and said Do I have a deal for you in Seneca

Falls in July. And I knew what the deal was and it was a lot of hard work but this is a site that in fact is about ideas and it's something that I relate to very much because in the penance and equality is what we're about. And as say an immigrant as a political refugee from Cuba where equality and independence is not a matter of every day living to this day the site called me through. To action if you will. Now that in and of itself is an interesting story which I will ask you to tell a little bit more of in just a moment of course first a reminder you've got thirteen seventy connection with Bob Smith here and out of the 13 70 we're broadcasting right now from the women's rights national park at Seneca Falls where the observances of the 100 50th anniversary of the women's movement as we know it starting with the declaration of sentiments is being

observed right now this weekend and the sesquicentennial of that rather courageous gathering for its time. Josie Fernandez is the superintendent of the women's rights national park and she's with me right now talking about what the facility represents and I want to if I may talk a little bit about. Just just looking if for a moment that what you said about your own background your own sort of biography if you will. You came here from from Cuba. Very different experience. Most definitely. I was nearly 13 years old when I arrived with my parents and my brother as a refugee with two bags to our name and now a lot of dreams and a lot of hopes in this country is indeed the land of opportunity and it becomes the world to emulate those things that we have here and the kind of living the democratic principles that we represent. And now more so represented by every day people

being called to action through things like the Declaration of sentiments. So for me becoming a United States citizen on the Fourth of July on the bicentennial year and then coming on to be the superintendent of a site like women's rights National Historical Park during this momentous occasion if that doesn't represent an opportunity in what this country is all about. I don't know what does. As opposed to what might have been had I fear that if I had not been as lucky and have had as. Courageous parents as I do I fear that if I had remained in Cuba I would not be telling the story. I'd be either Six Feet Under or in a jail rotting. He kind of does that to people doesn't yes he does. Exactly. Thank God we've never had to live through that experience and hopefully we never had you didn't have to

live through them either. There's plenty of people this country is a country of immigrants and this is in in fact Seneca Falls this is a village of thought that represents for many many immigrant groups coming primarily the Italian-American community coming to this village and we need to be a beautiful place that it is. So I am very very proud to now call this home. And it's it's a home with really sort of like the ghosts of history all around you. Do you almost feel their presence every day. I feel that their presence every day because they are their ideas. There their concepts are a passion is something that I see people. Feeling when they come here. During my first perhaps two weeks of coming to this park I was in a hurry walking to one of their local eateries to get a sandwich and I noticed that there was a mom with a little baby carriage and a little girl walking about in declaration park and when I

came back from picking up my sandwich I noticed that the little girl that had been picking up dandelions had. Obviously placed them mine inside the west lay in chapel. To me that they noted a sense of reverence to the place and I'd been forever transformed. I thought that I had been touched by the place before but that particular action told me that this place is in fact a place that is a national treasure and that ahd to be preserved and protected for future generations for ever. And of course when you think about it when you get right down to it as you talk about the Wesleyan chapel which was the actual place where the declaration was was agreed to and I guess there's history in and of itself although the chaplains don't have signed and ratified by 100 people 68 women and 32 men.

Now that's interesting. The man of course and I'm told part of the story too they probably were in their own way every bit as courageous and very much the revolutionaries everyone who was here stood if you will to be ridiculed to be called a nut if you will. And so these people were indeed very brave and courageous to their to declare that all men and women are created equal. It is their teens have a good eye to WXXI 30 to 70 Rochester. We are broadcasting right now live from the women's rights national park. Here in Seneca Falls New York right in the middle of the festivities revolving around 100 50th anniversary of the Declaration of sentiments by a group of courageous women and man who made the first and most articulate demand a century and a half ago for the equality that we've all been working for ever since. I'm Bob Smith to 6:03 WXXI a number to call with your thoughts with your comments and your observations here on thirteen seventy connection we've been talking during

this time with Josie Fernandez who is the superintendent of the women's rights national park which is the facility that commemorates everything that happened here 150 years ago. Also explains it and sets it in perspective. Now I'm going to be joined right now by Charlotte bunch who is director and professor of urban studies at the Center for Women's global leadership. And I want to welcome you to the program. And I understand that you have been compiling. Really what what effectively amounts to an archive of the modern feminist movement. And and also oddly enough of the people who have pronounced this premature demise tell it tell me a little bit about that. Well I am a feminist activist as well as working in the university and from the early days of the women's movement I started to know the trend that about two years after we got started in the. 71 there started to be articles saying well this trend is over. This was just a fad and now it's finished.

So I just kept those articles because I'm a bit of a compulsive archivist and think that women's current history should be recorded. And I think one of the first ones was in Harper's magazine and then I started to know that all the major magazines around 71 seventy do picked up this theme that the women's movement had been just sort of a left over from the 60s and was about to end. And periodically every three or four years there's been another round of declarations of well the death of feminism the most recent one has been calling it sort of post-feminist as if somehow all of these goals had been achieved so now we have magazines and articles like the one in Time magazine a few weeks ago. Is feminism dead. All of which are highly ironic in a moment when internationally the women's movement keeps growing and we now see women's groups in every country of the world starting to raise these questions so I just thought it was important to document and put in perspective all of these efforts on some people to try to put an end to this developing movement.

OK. Now there is an obvious question that comes to mind are people pronouncing the movement dead because they would like it to be. Well I think some of them are pronouncing it dead because they would like it to be and they hope that by saying it that they'll have some impact. I also think some people are misperceiving the movement because they think of the movement just as it was when it started in the late 60s and they don't recognize that as movements grow. They spread into the society and they take different forms. So for example when we say there's an international women's movement we're also pointing to the fact that women throughout this country in workplaces in their homes and organizations are often working for the goals of feminism not necessarily in a separate women's movement. So sometimes I think they pronounce it dead because they don't recognize the ways in which feminism has in fact spread throughout the whole culture. And over 2 6 3 WXXI understander we have Richard on the car phone in Rochester first time. Richard you're on the air Welcome to the program today. Thank you very much Bob I have a quick question but I probably will generate a LONG after As a matter of

concern is self-evident. If you're really interested in knowing some more about the men who were at the original convention who signed the declaration where they had whatever happened to them and that they suffer from being there being supportive of the women at that time I don't. Oh hang up in the snow my response on the air. You know that's a very interesting question it's kind of an untold story isn't it I mean not just in 1848 but all the way through isn't it. I think that's a really important question and I think it's very notable that there were men at that first convention and it it holds up what many of us have said all along which is that the rights of women are the responsibility of the whole society not just of women. And often the men who have fought for those rights have been ridiculed and have been isolated. I don't know what happened to those men in 1848 I'm sorry I'm not a historian from that period but I certainly do know that some of those men continued to be active in supporting the suffrage movement because I see photographs here in the Women's Rights Hall that have men in them. So I do think there have always been some men who kept that support

but I also think that he's raised a really important point that the human rights of every person are the responsibility of everyone. And we often forget that when we fight for women's rights away fight for the rights of people who are discriminated on the basis of race that it's all about responsibility and not just the people who suffer from that lack of equality. One thing I read somewhere and I can't vouch for its accuracy because I don't have it in front of me but somebody can correct me if I'm wrong as they often do. And that is I read that Frederick Douglass showed up and took part. Yes. But Elizabeth Cady Stan's husband decided to go out of town for theft we were just like that's exactly what I heard. Exactly and I think that it's really notable that he was actually not one of the major supporters in this period of time but obviously he had to learn to tolerate it. He basically just said look that's your project. Don't tell me don't bother me with it good luck. Right now I'm not exactly the most supportive spouse of the world although we probably should have I imagine I imagine it took a certain amount of courage or at least advance thinking just not to

try to stand in the way as I'm sure a lot of husbands did. That's right I think that I think that's the point is he really didn't see himself as a supporter but obviously he stepped aside and didn't try to stand in the way. And although we understand from some of the historical documents that he argued against her being so involved obviously he didn't have too much impact because she kept on doing that for over 50 years. I never 263 WXXI the program 13 70 connection and Carlin around a quite how you next. I just want to say it's a great day and it's was a long time in common this celebration to do your very much and it brings to life. These things that these women achieved and today I think women. While they're not. Come to be ecology that they deserve. They've come a long ways. And it's it's good to know that they they were so courageous in doing what they're doing. I hit it in my

lifetime. I'm in my 80s and. I saw a lot of the two women. I saw a lot of wife beating and child abuse and all that. And this these women. Changed all of that to the better and I hope and pray that they'll continue and they get that equal rights amendment through this time. And that's that's all I've got to say and I hope and pray they continue. Carol thanks for Jacki you have a 263 WXXI time. Well I would just like to say that I really appreciate that call because I think that there are not enough men yet who have been supportive of this movement but also I would like to add that it's been very important that we have expose that violence against women that he spoke about. But unfortunately we haven't brought that to an end. And I think that kind of wife battery rape and

violence that women suffer is one of the major frontiers of the women's movement today in terms of finished business. Well one other question I'm curious about if it has to do with something that Carl brought up. I'm sure we'll be discussing it later on. That's Equal Rights Amendment which came so close in the 1970s that was close but no cigar. I would think maybe a major The one major disappointment maybe of the movement so far. Well I think it's certainly the major symbolic disappointment of this movement so far in this country and it's one reason why some of us are not only advocating the rebirth of that or another version of constitutional equality but also why it's another important issue for us is that the United States has not signed the Convention on the elimination of discrimination against women which is really the international Equal Rights Amendment. And it's been signed by a hundred sixty one countries and the US remains one of only a handful of countries who has not affirmed constitutional

equality for women both in the United States and as a part of the world of nations. And it's taking them a while isn't it. I think it's I think it's taking much too long I think it's unfortunately become a kind of symbolic captive issue for a small group of people determined to try to hold equality back. But as you well know that equality is not being held back what's being held back is the official recognition of that as women keep moving forward. And I do believe we have another caller on the line Dan. I believe you're on the air with us now. You know I think we look at the history of the movement. One key section the 1890s early nineteen hundred. There was a great many men who were about the fight for equality. And. The. Problems. They saw the fight for justice. I mean if someone is going to ridicule that doesn't bother me because they looked at the element that was reticulum and sort of like somebody of ridicule by

the Dobson family call a should say of being ridiculed by somebody with the IQ of a roadkill. Who cares. There were two in fighting for justice to be bothered with. And they were a very important part. People like Gene Debs and Mother Jones were connected and of course the great Emma Goldman was probably one of the greatest in the history of the movement. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for speaking of another person with strong Rochester connections who have a lot to do with a lot to do with a socially progressive movements of the turn of the century. We talk of Emma Goldman my God this area of the country has been so important right from the beginning. It is 13 7 Action WXXI 13 70 I'm Bob Smith and we invite you to join us at 2 6 3 6 1 2 6 3 ninety nine ninety four for the past few minutes we've been getting a historical perspective from

Charlotte Bunche who is director and professor of Urban Studies Center for Women's global leadership. We're now joined at the table by people who are very active in the contemporary political scene as a matter of fact right down the table from me the recently elected installed president of the U.S. League of Women Voters. Dr. Carolyn Jefferson Jenkins and we have with us as well Anita Perry as Ferguson who is president of the National Women's Political Caucus I welcome you both to the program for this portion. And we're going to talk about the here and now when we talk politics. Couple of things first of all I'm thinking of first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton's comment yesterday that more women need to vote and it would make a major difference. In what way do you think that's so. Well it's going to make a major disc difference in the last three elections women where the majority of voters and because of the presence and the power of that group of individuals it changes the agenda that's coming forth and women are going to

have to be heard as they use that power of the vote. And our challenge at the league is to make sure that we are going to have 100 percent voter participation because that's how this democracy works. The other thing that that we are lobbying for heavily is campaign finance reform. The fact that women need to be included in the pool of candidates who are elected and appointed office. And if they're not there we're disenfranchising over half of our citizens. MS. Chris Ferguson I'm curious to know from from your perspective what would be the Caucasus never want to objective right now. Right now and has been for 27 years putting more women in elected and appointed office. That's what the National Women's Political Caucus has been working for at all levels from school board on up through the United States Senate someday the White House and also across party lines. Women make good representatives of the people and we want to see them in their rightful place.

Now that raises a couple of issues first of all it as it is as we heard a moment ago is as Carolyn Jefferson Jenkins pointed out women have to raise a lot of money to get involved in the campaigns or else we have to have reform we've got an abject lesson of that right now. We have a major candidate for the Senate this year. Geraldine Ferraro. Who is having trouble raising money. It's a grueling process Bob and one of the things that we've done at the National Women's Political Caucus over the years besides recruiting women candidates is to train them and part of that training goes to fund raising. It has been a major obstacle for women and men for any new candidate to get into a system that is so costly. We've just started a research project on all of the campaign finance reform proposals that are in the Congress to see how they might affect women candidates would they be helpful or would they be harmful. The big question what do you think about for example the most talked about McCain-Feingold.

McCain-Feingold has certain elements in it that could be very helpful to women or new candidates. Some of the big items that we look at are the amount of money that a candidate is allowed to raise from any particular source. Also at the time. Campaign can't come on for over a year or is there a shortened time period wherein you can get in there get your point made and then face election day. These are all variables that are still to be research on how they would affect the finance and also the opportunity for women candidates. Our number by the way 263 WXXI and Mary Jane is on the line with us from Brockport Mary Jane thanks for waiting you're on the air. And I was listening to your program earlier in my car so my response is going to be more in regard to the earlier conversation with Betty Friedan in regard to whether we would be all right if adequate day care is provided. And I would just like to say that my word for the past 20 years has been among poor women in Alabama in Kentucky and now in rural New York State and even in regard

to the topic at present. My fear is. The question of class does not come up as often in regard to women having the opportunities that they need. And even in regard to political office and very local levels are efforts being made to include women. And I would just like to say one more thing and they have is that last night and channel 21 the program that was put on in regard to women gaining the right to vote the way I thought it was excellent and what became clear to me was when they began working with working class women in the early part of our century it seemed like the movement went way ahead. And I'm wondering if even these women who with whom you are speaking now give any any way to give time and attention to the

poorer class of women who are among us in their ability. To take part in a political search. Thank you for your question the League of Women Voters has just embarked upon an initiative to mobilize our grassroots organization which is over 150000 members and supporters to do exactly what you are asking. We know that without diversity of representation and class is one of those factors that we don't have full citizen participation. So we have embarked upon initiatives that are citizen education that are leadership development that again the campaign finance reform so that that process is inclusive to everybody but we are working at the grassroots level to prepare women candidates. And we want to remind you know you don't go in as well it's particularly important I just want to add our comments of course today right after we're done with this show we're heading on to the Coalition for labor women united. A wonderful organization a branch of the AFL CIO that represents those working women that are day in day out trying to get the advances in the

workplace for women that are on the lower wage end of our scale so that is so important in your right to work that you've done over the years and we thank you for your call and the work that we're trying to do is enhanced when all women are included in the process. Our number by the way 2 6 3 WXXI the program has 13 70 connection to WXXI 13 70. I'm Bob Smith and we're broadcasting today live from the Women's National Historical Park the women's rights national park which commemorates the last 250 years of the effort. For equality in America which started right here in Seneca Falls exactly a century and a half ago and of course during all this past week we've been commemorating that heritage and that history and that triumphant history. And we're talking with people who are making history right now in their own way and a current generation of political action. Dr. Carolyn Jefferson Jenkins is president of the League of Women Voters of the United States. Anita perhaps Ferguson is president of the National Women's Political Caucus which seeks to increase the number of women active in public life

you know elective office. And there is an interesting campaign underway right now that was alluded to in ceremonies this morning at the rededication about setting a goal of electing a woman of whatever political party president of the United States. Just within the next 10 years. That's exactly right. There's a lot of energy growing in this direction and it is time actually when we think of the number of women who have now served in Cabinet level positions and while a handful some wonderful women have served as governors of our states. Now those are the most likely sources for a woman president to come from for any president to come from. We're setting our sights it's called the White House Project. There's a number of groups coming together on it to not only look to see who could be ready to be in 2000 and eight first woman president of the United States but also how can we invigorate the voting public especially the female voting public around this type of an enthusiastic effort. And as long as women are the majority of voters that's a strong possibility.

Now it's interesting the women are not only of the majority of voters but they do tend to vote more frequently more regularly than men do. And I guess that tendency is increasing. Can we expect to see a major shift. In the total political agenda from just the changing demographics of the voting public. You know they tell us from the research at the Center for American women in politics that when more women vote either on a regular election day or in any legislative body indeed the objectives do change there are more attention and more budgets that are allocated towards health issues towards housing issues towards education issues. These are the reflection of the concerns of the American women and they're very good reflections. And I wonder will we also see a major initiative in the areas of education and childcare and daycare as as we were hearing from the podium during the past hour. It sounded like that was going to be almost priority number one are we going to see that happen as well. It's going to be interesting to see what happens when we see education and health care coming

together as priorities that includes the whole cycle of life. BOB So we're talking about newborns and moving on through their younger years early childhood education all the way to the older generation and good long term care and health care for everybody in between. It works together in concert. The one final question I have before we we conclude this hour is how you get or how you convince more people to participate in the process. What a lot of people are becoming convinced the government's increasingly unresponsive and in the thrall of special interest. Dr Jefferson Jenkins It sounds like that goes right back to your opening call for reform doesn't it. It goes back to the call for reform and it's also reinforced by a poll that we did in 1906 where the league really had to re-evaluate and change its message to non voters. And what we found is that people are affected by those things that affect them on a daily basis their taxes their schools their children. And if we make sure that they are aware of every decision that it's made it's going to affect somewhere in their daily lives and they're more likely

to vote. My thanks to Dr. Carolyn Jefferson Jenkins and Juanita Paris Ferguson who are respectively head of the League of Women Voters of the US and the National Women's Political Caucus for sharing their views on this portion of their deen 70 connection. Thank you both. There's more right after we check what's going on AROUND THE WORLD here on this or that. Stay right with us we'll be back from Seneca Falls right after the news I'm Bob Smith. See you then. Thirteen seventy connection is a production of WXXI Public Broadcasting. The views expressed are not necessarily those of WXXI staff management or

underwriters. This is AM 13:17 WXXI your NPR News station. If you'd like a program please send 12:35 to Terrell WXXI radio P.O. Box 21 Rochester New York 1 4 6 1 for. TERRY GROSS If you're looking for unique perspectives on today's issues and events you want to keep in touch with what's happening in the entertainment world. I am fresh air. It's a mix of in-depth interviews and thought provoking commentary that spotlights the arts entertainment and the world of ideas. It's fresh air. With me Terry Gross weeknights at 7:00 a.m.. More of the 13 70 connection live from Seneca Falls is next here on AM 13 70. After NPR News at 1 o'clock. From National Public Radio News in Washington I'm to our rom Secret Service officers assigned to protect the president are at this hour behind closed doors at a federal court in

Washington presumably answering questions about the president. The Secret Service had argued in another court that the officers should not be forced to testify before a grand jury about the Monica Lewinsky matter. An appeals court rejected that argument but delayed the implementation of that ruling until noon today Washington time to give the Supreme Court time to decide otherwise. Minutes before noon the chief justice ruled there was no reason to prevent the appeals court ruling from going into effect even if the Supreme Court decides later to hear the appeal. NPR's Nina Totenberg has more. The chief justice said that this is an extremely important case and he said he assumed that there would be enough votes on the court to grant review of it but that there was not an adequate showing that the irreparable harm would be caused by the agents testifying. And there was not an adequate showing that the Justice Department and the Secret Service would when in fact he said quite to the contrary that they will probably lose even though the issue is an important one he agreed.

NPR's Nina Totenberg. The entire Supreme Court could still hear the arguments on the case in the next session which begins in October. At the United Nations a draft treaty is emerging that would set up the first permanent international court to try war criminals. Delegates from 160 countries have until midnight to endorse the plan. The United States does not approve of it in its current form saying it does not exempt U.S. citizens from the court's jurisdiction. Since U.S. military forces are used in hotspots around the world the U.S. fears they could be a target for politically motivated trials. The U.S. continues to press its position Japan's Liberal Democratic Party votes next week on a successor to outgoing prime minister ROH Toro Hashimoto. The three candidates are pledging to lift Japan out of its worst recession since World War 2. From Tokyo Juliet Hindle reports. Kay's Obuchi the foreign minister has no economic background but in a news conference he said he would make every effort to improve the economy including cutting corporate tax to 40 percent and reducing the top rate of income tax from 65 to 50 percent. His proposals A similar to policy is the LDP has already considered

his main opponents say it has already recommended drastic measures for the economy. He said he would conduct a complete overhaul of the financial system during the next two years. At 72 years old he said he thought a younger person would be better of the job but that his supporters have persuaded him to run. A third candidate has now come forward Junichiro Koizumi the health minister is the youngest potential prime minister at 56. He's thought to be against introducing tax cuts. For NPR News this is Juliet handle. Q On Wall Street this hour the market is mixed the Dow is down nine points the NASDAQ is up six and a quarter points and the S&P 500 is up fractionally. This is NPR. In NPR's business update. A MP Incorporated announced today a major restructuring the company based in Harrisburg Pennsylvania is the largest supplier of electric and electronic connectors in the world. It said it will cut thirty five hundred jobs. That's seven and a half percent of its worldwide workforce. A

group led by billionaire Kirk Kerkorian said today it's reduced its holdings in Chrysler Corporation its stake is now twelve point thirty five percent down from thirteen point eight percent. That's still thirty eight seventy nine point eight million common shares. The U.S. trade deficit rose ten point three percent in May to a monthly record of fifteen point seventy five billion dollars. NPR's John it's day reports. The may trade deficit tops the previous record set in April by a billion and a half dollars. The main cause is the economic turmoil in Asia slumping Asian economies have little demand for U.S. goods while at the same time U.S. consumers are eager to buy Asian goods made cheaper by currency devaluations there. The U.S. deficit also was up sharply with Canada and Mexico while the trade gap with Western Europe was sharply improved. The trade deficit with Japan also improved in May. The ballooning trade gap suggests that U.S. production was weaker than previously thought in the spring that had some economists revising downward their growth estimates for the second quarter to an

annual rate of less than one percent. JOHN It's NPR News Washington. The private investment firm Fenway partners is getting into the betting business in a big way. It announced today it's buying Simmons Company the largest betting company in the world for about 500 million dollars. Recapping stocks the market is mixed at this hour. The Dow is down nine points the NASDAQ is up six and a quarter points I'm sure. National Public Radio News in Washington. Support for a National Public Radio comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Geraldine R. dodge foundation for reporting on biological resource issues. Support for thirteen seventy connection is provided by Tyra associates general contractors committed to customer service and satisfaction since 1979 to hire associates offered a full range of residential and commercial construction services to the greater Rochester area by the women's center of the Borg Imaging Group providing mammography ultrasound and osteoporosis evaluation services. The Borg imaging group

dedicated to care and compassion committed to clinical excellence and by the estate of Doris Roberts. Have you back with us. Thirteen seventy connection continues on 13 after the studio today we're live from the Finger Lakes and specifically from Seneca Falls New York where celebrate 98 the celebration of the 100 50th anniversary of the Declaration of sentiments that lunch America's women's rights movement. Is underway right now exactly a century and a half ago as we speak. Some very courageous people are launching a movement that has changed society much for the better and continues to change it even to this day we're going to be talking about what has been achieved and what's yet to be done during the course of this second hour of the program today and we'd be delighted to have you join us as well to share your perspectives. And some folks have already done during the course of the show and it's as easy as picking up a telephone and dialing us up at 2 6 3

2 6 3. Ninety nine ninety four. We've got a phone line open for you right now and we will be looking forward to getting to your calls very shortly. 13:7 a connection to discuss what this movement what this not in 50 years of history and what the modern movement today has meant to you and what kind of an impact it's had on your life whether you're a man or a woman it's had a big impact and certainly has changed a lot of people's lives for the better we'd like you to discuss those thoughts and more with us and 13:7 a connection made some very interesting people during the course of this hour who were involved in all that. And meanwhile we want to give you a chance to meet someone who we had a chance to talk with during the course of the last hour and actually just before the live broadcast started Eleanor Smeal is the former president the National Organization for Women and currently heads the fund for the Feminist Majority. And as you're about to hear she actually is outlining a very ambitious agenda and could be some new initiatives on the horizon. You'll hear about that right now.

We're talking right now with Eleanor Smeal former president of the National Organization for Women and now head of the fund for the Feminist Majority. I want to first of all ask you about some things which the first lady mentioned in her speech yesterday. A couple of things first of all about the continuing inequality in pay and what we're going to do in terms of really achieving true equality in the workplace what needs to be done there. Well what needs to be done is we need new legislation that guarantees equal pay for work of a comparable value r so that in essence women are in a job segregated categories where mostly women do the work and those jobs have been devalued. So we need to have much more. Objective standards for pay. It's so that the women's jobs are elevated in pay and they're principally jobs that deal with caring for example nurses and teachers of elementary and nursery school or childcare workers

tend to get paid much less than people who don't even need as many skills that are in technical jobs. They get paid much higher for example. You can almost think of anything they get paid higher than jobs or dealing with children especially very young children. So what we're going to do is try to get their pay equity bills pending in Congress and in many state legislatures and the women's movement is definitely pushing them. Are you looking at for example the experiment but the legislation that was put into place in Ontario in Canada a few years ago as a possible model. Well Canada has been as as actually said ground broke new ground in many different areas I don't know if people realize it. Canada under their charter has an equal rights provision which guarantees affirmative action for women and girls which they're really ahead of us and this.

Raises a couple of questions first of all about the attacks on affirmative action these days which a lot of people believe are really more directed against women than they are even against the minority. Do you think that's true. Oh of course because we're finally starting to catch up and so we're starting to be a real threat. I mean but basically we still need affirmative action programs. You know there are action programs get a bad rap in the press and others have frequently called it preferences. It's not preferences. It's just the reverse. It's getting rid of preferences for men who have held a boost they have had to. What we're trying to do is even the playing field and affirmative action programs are very necessary for women in this catch up period. What the NAO convention came up with just the other day when it was meeting in Rochester was an interesting legislative proposal. I wonder if we could talk about that for a bit. It almost looks to me like legislation to accomplish what the Equal Rights Amendment would have done if it had just got a couple more states.

Yes I'm co-chair of Nell's advisory board and I helped draft what we're calling the National Women's Equality Act. The National is Equality Act is going to be a series of measures to correct laws that are now on the books that treat ISON equally so there will be it's to beef up the wage discrimination laws to make stronger sex discrimination employment and education laws too. We're looking at the military exclusion right now women are only allowed in 39 percent of military jobs. What that does is we don't have the same access to training to do some technical skills that later on in life makes a difference between a higher paying job and a lesser paying job. It goes into Medicare and Medicaid and there's you. In all the inequities and discrimination against women in our health care system from excluding us from clinical trials to take in

paying for some prescription drugs for men that benefit from men but other prescription drugs necessary for woman have been excluded. So it literally goes through our Social Security Medicare Medicaid employment education wage and is trying to even out all the laws so it would again under statutory In other words Congress. What we haven't been able to do through the Constitution. It doesn't it's not giving up the constitutional drive but it is giving us something to work on today. One question of course comes to mind immediately about that. What does the congressional landscape look like right now is it fertile for passage of this bill or is it. Well let's face it we have an anti women's rights majority in both houses right now I don't think people understand that that we have a very conservative to right wing people in the majority in Congress right now I'm not talking Republicans I'm talking the right wing.

Of the Republican Party has many many company ships. So it's going to be tough. But this is the but these specific proposals are very popular with the public. Extremely popular. And so instead of just asking members of Congress where do you stand on reproductive choice which we're going to ask and we're going to make sure that people know that the current Congress is anti. Family planning an anti abortion the majority. But we also are going to ask where they stand on women's equality and wages and employment and education and some of those very same folks are against women's advancement. And these very basic positions. And so it will be two ways for groups like now in the National Political Caucus and many other women's groups to rate and to expose the anti women's rights bias of this current congregational majority. Eleanor Smeal thank you very much for joining us for this segment appreciate it. And thirteen seventy connection continues here and WXXI 13 70. I'm Bob Smith.

You can dial us up at 2 6 3 WXXI that is 2 6 3 9 9 9 4 and you will be a part of the action and a part of the conversation we've got a line open just for you right now. We're going to open up the discussion of women in the workplace right now on the special issues and challenges being faced in their efforts to achieve equality in that venue. Gloria Johnson is president of the Coalition for labor union women and the AFL CIO and I want to thank you very much for joining me to talk about these these issues which are really the dollars and cents bread and butter issues that are that are so essential right now. I want to ask first of all about the wage gap that's been referred to so much that women today can count on earning only 74 to 76 cents depending on who you who you are who you look at on the dollar. Compared to men for comparable jobs. Why is that even when studies some made that show that experience and training and

education are the same. There is still a 25 percent gap that we attribute to real sex discrimination and one of our goals obviously is to close those 24 cents. This 24 cent gap between men and women now of course is the good news feed erotically is well it used to be a 30 cent gap some years ago as I recall even doing a similar program at the start of the series 10 years ago. I don't think if we go with the rate that we've been going over the past many years I won't live to see the gap close not doubt if you would too. So we've got to do something to close it faster and we've got to do it soon because there are many many women who are suffering from this wage gap. Now I've heard a couple of. Options for that one of which might very well be the equality legislation that was recently promulgated at the National Organization for Women's convention.

They say of the National Women's Equality Act might go a long way toward this. Is it a panacea is a cure all. No I don't think it's a cure all I do think that there are many solutions. First and foremost I think we need to increase another increase in the minimum wage. This will go far in correcting some of these inequities and and addressing the problems that women face in not having sufficient monies. I think the other way and we could do this certainly with it within the labor movement itself is to make sure that when men and women are doing the same job. That they get the same pay. In other words we abide by the Equal Pay Act of 1963. I think that third way of correcting this is obviously through legislation but in and if that doesn't take place I think that we've got to focus as well on skill building and training to move women

into a higher paying jobs. And all of these are geared to reducing the wage gap. Now of course there is another avenue that the body for damage suggested which is that a lot of it would be cured if women were allowed to stay on a comparable career track to men and that men and women were encouraged to participate equally in the lives of the children in the raising of their children. That might make a big difference and makes an awful lot of sense to me. I agree with that and I think that is probably a part of that is also the need for more women and I think this is what she is addressing as well. To move into what we call nontraditional female jobs because most women are still concentrated in female jobs. And if this were to open up so that there are more women encouraged to be like friends and tool and die makers where the money is better then the gap would be closed they are a lot of ways we've mentioned actually about five already

does organization in and of itself as a should does tend to have an upward push of wages benefits too. Yes you're saving the best for last. Absolutely. Studies have shown that union women earn 35 percent higher wages than nonunion women and fringe benefits at 37 percent. Certainly that's what we would push most of all. I take it the agenda is already underway that Gloria Johnson I do think I know your time is limited because there are some events that you're going to be participating in but I do thank you very much for stopping by and being with us on this edition of laying out the agenda. Well I appreciate it very much and I hope those folks who are listening will call in and support exactly what we are saying. My thanks to Gloria Johnson who's president of a coalition of labor union women the American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations. Thank you very much for being with us it is a connection here at 13 7. I'm Bob Smith. And of course your

chance to be a part of it is as close as your telephone at 2 6 3 2 6 3 ninety nine ninety four. Setting it all in historical perspective is what we would like to do in this particular segment of the program. We have Vivian Rose who is the historian for this entire facility which has welcomed us today of the National Park. Thank you very much for being with us appreciate you joining thank you for the opportunity. Oh I want to talk to you first of all if I may about. What life must have been right for those women a century and a half ago trying to make the imaginative leap backwards to that time. What was the kind of life that they were seeking to move beyond. Well first of all everybody is hot and sweaty today. But imagine wearing women are so three or four layers corsets skirts down to your boots long boots. Hat and all of that in this small building on a day when the temperature was in the

80s or 90s and it was very humid. That's the kind of basic understanding of what women were going through in that period that caused them to reconsider their position understandable even the clothing was oppressive. Yes it's not it's not any accident that Elizabeth Cady Stanton some three years later adopted what was called the bloomer costume which was pants underneath a knee length skirt and no corset whatsoever which allowed freedom of movement and possibility to run and went after children et cetera. So it's very one thinks of rights a somewhat esoteric but they were talking about day to day living day to day living for most women a hundred fifty years ago which was really nasty and brutish and I guess ever so much shorter than it was shorter. It's one of the organizers of the convention. Jane Hunt was the fourth wife of her husband she had stepchildren from two other previous wives and

she herself had a six week old child at the time of the convention. So access to child care was very important. Access to health care was very important a concern about a practice of almost continual pregnancy once marriage occurred. It was one of the concerns. So again it's just basic day to day living. It's a kind of a day to day living that I think most of us today couldn't possibly imagine and I would hope would tolerate her. Well one can't speak for others but I certainly wouldn't say it's steadily so. It's done more than anything else is accomplish a lot of freedom and a lot of ability to choose to choose your own path as well of the convention was an opportunity for people to get together and talk about. The ordinary things they confronted that were there are difficult for them. What was extraordinary about the convention is that it was a call to action. And many of us are are hot today but we don't think there's anything we

can do about it. After all we can't take care of the weather. But in fact of course we can get out of the sun drink a lot of water and that was the genius of that convention was that they took the conditions of women and they decided that there was something that could be done about it and they would. It took I would think a lot of courage during that time to really break the envelope and break the mold because this was not something that you heard more than a handful of people talking about before hand was it. It's true but you also didn't hear more than a handful of people talking about abolition or the end of slavery in fact the Christian churches in the United States split over the issue of slavery and some went south some went north about whether or not the Bible supported slavery or didn't support slavery and so many of these people already knew one another they were already considered radicals and for them this was just self-evident that if you were working for rights for any particular group everyone needed to have them.

Doubt 2 6 3 6 6 3 99 94 to join the conversation. I'm Bob Smith with you on WXXI thirteen seventy connection right at the women's net rights National Historical Park in Seneca Falls New York right in the Finger Lakes really in a sense the cradle of the birthplace of the modern American women's movement and it's celebrated 150 years of existence and activity on behalf of women right here right now to celebrate 98. Vivian Rose is the historian of the National Park and the historian who's giving us perspective on how far we've come and what the lives of the people who took part in that important convention were like and why they took the action they did. And I want to look next if I can it who some of these women were because we know about Elizabeth Cady Stanton. We know very much in Rochester especially about Susan B Anthony she's a local hero to folks living in the Rochester area and talked about constantly.

But there are a lot about. There are a lot of people who you don't hear that much about and I don't want to raise with you a question that a caller raised with me in the last hour and that was that I guess there were about two or three dozen men involved in this convention in support of as well weren't there. Well there were probably more than that but only 30 to sign the declaration of sentiments. So there was an expected or we understand that there were about 300 people there but of the hundred people who signed the Declaration of sentiments calling for men and women who were created equal to have equal rights. Only 32 of them were men and one so then or one could possibly say an amazing number 32 were men. But the point of that of course is that these were relatives and allies of the women who signed they were brothers husbands sons they were friends they were siblings they were in-laws. So one of the untold stories about this convention is that they were family networks. Elizabeth Cady Stanton brought her sister. Jane and Richard Hunt

came together Jane hunt hosted the famous tea party that resulted in the call for the convention and with them were Richard Hunt's brother in law Thomas McClintock who was the brother of his third wife Sarah and Thomas McClintock wife Marianne and their two children Mary Ann and Elizabeth and Marianne McClain talke sister Margaret Pryor and her husband George. So there's this whole family network of people. Post was here from Rochester and she is a unsung heroine in her own right. Host to Sojourner Truth host Harriet Jacobs who is the writer of the first narrative of the fugitive life of the female slave and also the one of the organizers of the New York western Anti-Slavery Society and they raised money for Frederick Douglas and for Jermaine Logan in Syracuse and others who were moving slaves. Enslaved people fugitives through New York into Canada. Those folks we don't

often organise and we don't often recognize because they didn't organize this convention. But without them there would not have been nearly the success that there was. These were remarkable police were pretty courageous people to go against the grain. It always takes a lot of courage to go against the grain in any era including our own today. But can you imagine what it must have been like did they suffer as a result of what happened to the counter a lot of problems as a result of what happened. Well some newspaper said that the local newspaper said that the resolutions were of the kind that might be considered radical or reasonable depending on your point of view. And so because they were surrounded with people who thought like they did they considered what they were doing reasonable. Unfortunately not everyone agreed with them and so consequently some people who signed the Declaration removed their names after they had done so after it was published

and the minutes were published by the North Star Press out of Rochester. And shortly after that some people took their names off and of course we don't know who they were because it was already published. It's interesting to note though that folks did have second thoughts probably as a result of the pressure at the time. Yes those who did take part. Well I guess they've been immortalized forever it is interesting you mention the North Star Press too. Frederick Douglass's for us. He was very much involved with us right from the start. He was very much involved with this right from the start because he was a friend and co agitator with Lucretia Mott and with the McClintock Elizabeth McClintock and Marianne McClintock were also co-founders of the western New York Anti-Slavery Society. So there was a whole organisation of women in western New York who were raising money and who were assisting fugitives they already knew one another. Not surprisingly they all showed up together. What is it about I would be curious about this about the central and western New York region the Finger Lakes the Rochester area on westward. What is it about this

area of the country that made it such a hotbed of reform of change more so probably than we'd even think of California today what made this place so much a locus of reform. It's true that central New York was called It was called the burned over district because there were so many religious reforms that came through in the 1930s and 40s. But it's also true that. 1848 was a revolutionary year there were revolutions in Germany there were revolutions in France and so even if you look in the local newspaper you will see revolutionary sales here in 1848 in July. A revolution in new goods because everybody was very aware that people were claiming their rights everywhere. And what made this area special in terms of abolition and women's rights is that there was this transatlantic community Quaker community from Philadelphia who followed family kinship ties up into Rochester and Seneca

Falls in the 1830s and created strong networks of reformers. So it was Family Ties it was a sign of the spirit of the times it was everything coming together all at once. Now of course as we know some of the more radical remnants of that particular time of comedy like like Karl Marx. But this has lasted this has endured. Well Karl Marx's. Analysis of the economic conditions of the 1840s are still considered by historians to be pretty accurate. That his theories about what would work better have not proved to be successful doesn't diminish his analysis of what was happening in 1848 which was a period of. Rapid industrialization and social change that people in Europe were just not able to handle. So yes it is the hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the Communist Manifesto and it is also the hundred and 50th anniversary of the gold

rush in California. It is also the anniversary of the end of the Mexican-American War. So an awful lot was happening between March and July of 1848 quite a credit to your excellent turbulent time in our history 263 99 94. As we look back on that very turbulent time in our history and of course one hundred fifty years the women's rights movement which unlike some of the other movements of 48 is still going strong and still growing and still has an ambitious agenda and a lot of work ahead of it. We're talking about those hundred fifty years that we're celebrating right now here in Seneca Falls 13 70 collection historian Vivian rose the National Park Service and the women's rights national park here in Seneca Falls. You're with us for a couple more minutes with a couple of questions that I'd like to ask you. That is about the time afterward we talked about the immediate reaction but it took a long time took seventy two years for women to get the vote. We're

still one hundred fifty years into it and there's still some work to be done and some of our guests have already pointed out to us today. It has been very very tough and a long struggle hasn't it. It's the interesting thing about the declaration of sentiments is that it is not an agenda only for the vote. It's a very broad agenda. The resolutions included that call for equality in the professions in the pulpit in church and state. And so although we remember the convention as the first place where women and men together publicly demanded the right of the elective franchise for women. In fact the entire. Agenda was immediately set upon was immediately worked upon and so by 1860 For instance there are reforms in the Married Women's Property Act in New York. There are attempts to found co-educational colleges. There's a people's college for instance outside of Cortland New York that's founded in the 18th early 1850s

and Elizabeth stand is one of the founders. And women's colleges are also found it so that there's access to education for women. So really it had a major impact on many of the major educational institutions like Cornell University of course which was right right from the get go. Right. So what happens then is that it's worked out piecemeal because it's such a big agenda. The vote takes on its own importance later in the process. But it's not until after the Civil War that woman suffrage becomes the major go up to that point its abolition its property its education its access to the professions. And when it becomes obvious that the vote is going to be very hard to get Thats when the vote becomes the focus. It occurs it's interesting that was the moment at which I guess Frederick Douglass and Susan B Anthony had a bit of a falling out because Douglass understood that there was an awful lot of anti-racist work still yet to be done.

He thought that women suffrage would get in the way. Susan did not like you know a parting of the ways over that and I wonder if that helped progress on both movements back for a while or the other way to look at it is that there were people working on two different agendas and being relatively successful. So when people look at movements they tend to think that if they don't. Join together and continue to work together. And that means that they're not successful but in fact when every movement splits there are any numbers of folks who are able to move into a particular role and a particular agenda. So yes Frederick Douglass and Susan B Anthony had a parting of the ways because and it was over the issue of precedence if in a time when opportunities for political change were narrowed right after the Civil War you had to choose one or the other. What would it be. And they formed this organization together called The American Equal Rights Association

which was intended to bring women and African-Americans all in at a time. At the same time. So the idea that a black man and a black woman was somehow on equal. It was very difficult and they struggled over it in fact they were reconciled in 1895 at the meeting of the National women American women suffrage Association there in Washington D.C. and then Frederick Douglas died that evening. So it was very wonderful that they were able to reconcile at least there was no unfinished business left you know. And as she said Failure is impossible. It was. Thank you very and rose for being with us and setting it all in historical perspective. We can do you have 13 70 connection WXXI 13 70. I'm Bob Smith. We're broadcasting live right now from the women's rights national park in Seneca Falls New York literally surrounded by history surrounded by the places and the events of a time when the women's rights movement in America today started.

2 6 3 WXXI is our number to join with your perspectives and your observations We'd love to have you with us here on WXXI 13 70 and we'd love to have you join us. And right now across the table from me from the faculty of Cornell University my alma mater Kate Bronson Brenner is the director of Labor Education Research. And I want to ask you about something that you've been involved in that I know was more than a little bit reverse CEO because you did a study here recently of an organizational activity that got you hauled into court. Maybe tell tell a little bit about that background and how it was ultimately resolved. Well I need to say I have to be very careful what I say because Beverly is continued to sue me and every time I speak about my testimony including on the radio. And so all I can say is that it's not over. They're continuing to. They're appealing the case they've filed charges against me for actually speaking on NPR.

What. It is outrageous that a company that has the kind of reputation that Beverly has that was been found to be one of the 10 worst corporations by Fortune magazine that has been found guilty of numerous labor law violations by the courts in this country is attacking an academic who was hauled before Congress to testify at a public hearing about Beverly's record and attacking academic freedom and trying to get a hold of confidential research data and really trying to intimidate scholars from engaging in the kind of public discourse about corporate behavior that's so important in this country. But of course it's also important to mention that at every turn in the court so far there are losers right so far. And we hope they continue to be right. But just to set this it is sort of expected we're talking about a company that I guess is in the health care field. It's a for profit healthcare corporation health care corporation and your research had to do with with their efforts to resist unionized. Now if I'm not mistaken leaving leaving early issues of of a particular research aside

for the moment. These are industries in which it's mostly female employees involved are absolutely. And the question then becomes whether or not they're being held back from attaining some kind of. Equity pay equity equity of opportunity as a result of the frustration of their efforts or as a result of their inability to unionize right right workers under our laws have a right to organize they're supposed to be able to organize free from coersion intimidation threats yet the majority of private sector employers aggressively oppose union efforts and do everything possible to create such a climate of fear and conflict that workers are afraid to exercise those rights. You know it's one thing to say well don't do this we can do just as well for you and use persuasion I mean bad bad is that is OK out of the law. It's another thing to intimidate and kill worse. What are companies doing right now what are common tactics like and how is this particularly a women's issue.

One in three employers fire workers for union activity. The majority actually threaten to close the facility. If workers try to organize they use electronic surveillance. They deny them promotions they cut back their benefits they give bribes and then they create a climate that is so frightening that workers are literally afraid to exercise a right even though polling shows that clearly the majority of all workers are women workers more unions. Now theoretically a lot if not most of what you've described is contrary to labor law right. Why is it still happening. If that's been against the law for if I'm not mistaken over 60 years well. Our laws are very weak and they're very poorly enforced if an employer if an employer fires workers for work for a union activity. The worst penalty they get is that eventually they have to reinstatement. No there's no punitive damages. They don't go to jail if they shut down a facility to avoid unionization. There's really no penalty at all no court is going to make them

reopen that facility. And if they absolutely refuse to bargain even though that's against the law. The worst penalty they get is a piece of paper saying. Bargain they can drag it out for years and years and years. It seems strange that at this late date there would be that much resistance. What's it coming from. We live in a country right now where in place we allow employers we have accepted that they can get profits at all cost. Ignoring the needs of the workers and the communities they serve and employers want that power and they keep that power. However I don't need to tell you that unions are winning and are winning more despite the employer opposition because American workers recognize that they need unions now more than ever. 13:7 actually WXXI 13:7 I'm Bob Smith across the table from me right now. Bronson Brenner is director of Labor Education Research at Cornell University. And we want to invite you to join in the conversation at 2 6 3

WXXI 2 6 3 ninety nine ninety four. I mentioned a moment ago this could be particularly an issue for women because they do tend to have the jobs with the least security and the lowest pay and the fewest benefits. I'm curious to know and inclusion is there something that we can do about that in particular. I think we need to recognize that women workers more than ever need to be able to exercise their rights to organize freely of threats and coercion what we need to do is enforce our laws better more aggressively and change our laws to have punitive damages for employers. But we also need to not wait for labor law reform and do everything to support unions in their effort to organize these women workers because it's the only way women will gain economic justice in this country. Kate Brown for Brinner thank you very much for sharing your perspective with us appreciate your joining us on this segment of thirteen seventy connection which you are hearing right here right now. Thirteen seventy I'm Bob Smith we are right here and right now at the women's rights national park. Here in Seneca Falls New York you have

a chance to be with us by dialing 2 6 3 WXXI. Our lines are open for you right now here on thirteen seventy connection. And we welcome some people who are I think will be very familiar to you. Lieutenant Governor Betsy McCaughey Ross who is hoping to get the top job in the upcoming primaries. Eleanor Smeal of the fund for the Feminist Majority former now-President both joining us. I want to thank you both for being with us and I'm curious first of all about something that I'm going to look at the campaign for governor first of all and something that has happened recently that we found out about the person who Governor Pataki wants to replace you with is lieutenant governor. We found out I guess she is not with. The pro-choice agenda. How do you interpret that. Well it's very unfortunate. And it's just the latest in a whole series of decisions that George Pataki has made that diminish a woman's right to choose for many

women in New York state that freedom to choose a slipping right through their fingers and out of their lives as George Pataki allows hospitals to merge on terms that impose religious restrictions on patients in public hospitals restrictions that eliminate family planning and counseling and reproductive health services. It's also very unfortunate that George Pataki has contracted with anti-choice HMO so that women who depend on Medicaid can't get the family planning services they need as readily as they should be able to get them. And now George Pataki has chosen a running mate who opposes Medicaid funding for abortion so that only rich women have the freedom to choose. I think that's wrong. Now he's saying well look. We interviewed you four years ago. We did the way that you were particularly pro-choice. You want to respond to that I certainly do. I made it very clear that I'm on equivocally pro-choice and in fact just a week or so after I was nominated to be lieutenant governor on the Republican ticket.

There was a tremendous blow up in the press because I made my pro-choice convictions very clear publicly and the Republicans were assailing me for making them so clear they wanted me to keep quiet about my commitment to a woman's right to choose so that they could get more support from the Conservative Party. So look I would never lie to get any party support. And I have a very strong commitment to choice in part it's a personal commitment I have three teenage daughters and I want to protect the future choices they will make. And the fact is that in New York State choice is diminished How can you say a woman has a right to choose if she has no place to exercise her choices because the hospitals that she has come to depend on have closed or eliminated family planning services. I'm curious to know Eleanor Smeal from your point of view we talked we broadcast some comments we recorded with you earlier about the economic and purely political issues but

reproductive rights. I think a lot of people assume that that was closed over with a long time ago and that the rights were locked in stone I think not so well as I as we're talking right now today in Congress there are human hearings the take away from the pro-choice forces the ability to use the racketeer influence corruption or insulation act the RICO Act to fight these terrorists in the streets that's the anti-choice lobby which in Congress right now the right to lifers or the anti abortion laws make a very clear anti-abortion anti plant family planning to have a majority of both houses. So we're in a very they sell us literally with one amendment after another. They just passed in the House amendment that would block approval of RU 486 the FDA to spend any money for approval of RU 486 a medical Borsch and it has been available in

France in Great Britain and Sweden for a decade and we still are fighting and they're still trying to take away that right to constant attacks are caught and in Congress and now here in New York. You know one of the most. Strong winds strong one of the strongest states for women's rights but you wouldn't know that from the top of the ticket of the Republicans or you wouldn't know that from frankly the legislature. You know Ellie I'm not surprised when Bob says Gee I thought this this debate was over and that a woman's right to choose was secure. The fact is it is surprising to so many people to hear these things they assume that this battle has been fought and won and the government is no longer permitted to walk into your bedroom and dictate what you do or diminish your very personal very very personal medical choices. But that's what's going on now. Betsy has been telling everybody and she I hope that this governor's race gets so much clear coverage that right now here in New York with the hospital

mergers women are losing access to abortion cost mergers with Catholic hospitals and the government is allowing that to happen. We need a governor in office who's willing to fight for women's reproductive rights and frankly we need the whole top. And I think this time New Yorkers could make history because women who are strong for women's rights both for the unequal and for abortion rights are running for governor for Senate U.S. Senate and also for. The attorney general position and of course there are some other things that are very important to working women and to families working families and they have been neglected under the current governor and they need to be addressed. One is the need for public pre-kindergarten state funded pre-kindergarten and daycare because parents mothers and fathers are worried sick when they're at the their workplace and their children are not getting the kind of care they need. If their preschool aged children or if they're home alone after school

and there are just millions of children in our nation who are left home alone after school because there isn't adequate afterschool programs and daycare and these are the issues that we need to address because most women are working out of necessity they're working because they have to to put food on the table and help pay that mortgage. And it's unfair that women have to worry about what's happening to their children while they're at work. Should the state of New York the state of New York has done a lot of things they've had up to now full funding for reproductive services for the poor as well as as well as the well-to-do and they have they've been very much more generous that all but I think maybe a half a dozen states in that regard. Should we take the lead at this point here in New York on issues of child care as well can we do it given the resources we have. Bob we can't afford not to do it. Let me give you an example. All the research right here in our state shows that children who attend public pre-kindergarten are 50 percent 50 percent less likely to be placed in special

education 26 percent less likely to fail a grade in the early years. That means this program pays for itself every To every year that a child succeeds in regular education rather than needing special ed. Taxpayers save on average eleven thousand seven hundred thirty one dollars while publicly kindergarten only costs forty five hundred dollars this is a no brainer. We can't afford not to do this. Ellie Not only can we afford to invest in the early child care. As you just said it's it's a cost savings. But you know I think the misconception I think we should think cost and some things. When you give a child a chance at a early time it changes the potential of the whole country who knows who the next Einstein is who the next Madame Curie is the people or the scientists. You have got to make sure that each child has that potential. I think that it's it's ludicrous the richest nation on earth.

Wall Street is pumping New York is is is in peril a time in history we should be thinking and we should be breaking barriers were right here very close to where the women you know broke the barrier speaking in public and fighting for the vote. If New York could elect women at the top. We only have three women governors. We still have very few women in the United States Senate we have nine. We have a chance to vote for Gerry Ferraro here. We have very few women Attorney-General's Katharine about who is running here. This could be a historic time in 1998. Would this be equivalent to 1992 as of 1992 was always considered a breakthrough year nationally. I Bob I remember 1992 was declared the year of the women how come women only get one year. Every year is for women as well as for men. And the point is that women in government reorder the priorities and focus them on the needs of working

families. Just think about it. Childcare health care breast cancer research preventing domestic violence and child abuse expanding a woman's right to choose. These issues were not even on the political agenda in an earlier age so we women in government are really turning. Government. To the task of solving the problems facing working people. But of course there is obstacle to getting more power. And that is the system of financing elective campaigns right now is very much controlled of a special interests who may not have any particular agenda or agenda but they sure do like things pretty much as well. And in addition to that also kind of the old style clubhouse politics which seems to favor the people that have been in politics the longest the kind of clubhouse old style politics as usual. But yesterday I delivered to the Board of Elections in Albany. Fifty eight thousand

three hundred signatures to put me on the ballot as a candidate for governor. The people who signed those petitions were not the people get invited to political conventions very few of us ever get invited to a political convention. The people who signed those signatures is sign their signatures to those petitions were very working people who want a governor who will do a lot less politicking and a lot more problem solving and who will really represent women as well as men. ELLING no question about in fact you know we were just we just wrote an declaration of sentiments here. And one of the major parts of it is to change the national agenda so we are taking care of people and to frankly get equal power. We've been out too long I say the 21st century could be the greatest century if women and men share power interests. If that were to happen of course you would have 76 women of The New York State Assembly 30 want to end the state and mix at the

top in terms of the state administration. And the reason why we shouldn't have any house not only is on our side oh yeah that's right. But at the bottom and you know what the most important thing is that we're on your side listeners. I want to ask you more about the politics of it though too and that is we know that right now a lot of people including including people who are of a certain degree of popularity of the past are still having trouble raising money I think of the reports that came out about Geraldine Ferraro for example if she makes it past the primary she'll be running against a man who has got something like 20 to 30 times as big a war. Right you know you do about that we learned something in this recent California election where the the top money raisers and they were they were just money raisers where one man was by and he was going to put 30 million of his

own money and the top money spenders did not win. And I personally feel that when we declared here women and men have got to do something about the power of money and you know we can't be controlled by 30 secs and second jingles in ads and I think the women's movement is going to get more and more involved in not only campaign finance but changing these rules that are making it so that that you're just buying seats. Let me give you an example Bob as you know I have been fighting very hard for the last three years to stop insurance companies from denying you life saving treatments like a bone marrow transplant or high dose chemotherapy when you're battling cancer. But as long as politicians take large donations from insurance companies the rest of us have something to worry about. And the reason that the bill has not passed in the New York state legislature the reason that that people get really lose their lives are waiting for an insurance company approval for the treatment they need.

Is that so many of the legislators are so influenced by these contributions from the insurance companies. And it assumes it's a bipartisan conspiracy of status quo. You've got people of both parties to make a change to the right. I'll give you another example with the insurance industry which literally owns the insurance department in New York State Auto insurance companies in New York have the highest underwriting profits doubled the national average. It's wrong. The state requires you to buy auto insurance and then they let the insurance companies price gouge you and charge such high rates that many people a single working mother for example finds it very difficult to pay for that auto insurance. And I've put forward a proposal that will limit the profit margins on auto insurance companies so working families can afford insurance and it will also let women pay less. Women on average drive half as many miles as men do. Right if in fact let's be real if they price. Insurance just like you to price everything else on the on the Not that you use it and put the insurance pricing for

automobiles on the basis of the number of miles you drive women and elderly people or people who are older and both men and women would be paying significantly less we estimate it would save them and in collective about 4 billion a year but it's Were moving money right out the pocket by subsidizing high mileage drivers. In this case it happens to be principally men but that's not the case right now. If it's it's the ability to price insurance on the basis of gender that's wrong. Many families but generally right. Well but Ellie is making a very good point here. Actually I put forward a very specific legislative proposal that will require insurance companies to give you two choices You can continue to buy auto insurance for six months or a year and the price depends on your rate class where you live and how old your car is or you get it or you have the other option of buying say 3000 miles worth of auto insurance. And this rewards people who

take the train to work or use a bus or some other kind of mass transit or carpool. So it's really very very good option for people who favor protecting the environment and it's excellent for women who are paying twice as much per mile for auto insurance as the average man. And it will help others for example if your suburban two car family. You're going to get a big break on the second day of the second car into this proposal so some people could save as much as 75 percent on their auto insurance and nobody will pay more because under this proposal that I put forward it caps the profit. You never know what issues are going to affect people and what issues are really general lated issues. You learn a lot every day I guess. My thanks to Eleanor Smeal president and we thank all of you for being with us on this edition of thirteen seventy connection here. It has been a delight to be a part of what's going on at the women's rights national

park a commemoration of 150 years of the women's movement. We've been privileged to take part in today's 13th day. It's been a pleasure. 13:7 reconnection is a production of public broadcasting. The views expressed are not necessarily those of staff management or underwriters. This is your NPR News station. On the talk of the Rochester 02:00. From National Public Radio in New York this is TALK OF THE NATION SCIENCE FRIDAY. I'm Ira Flatow. The clock is ticking and it's beginning to sound like a time bomb. Just over 17 months the year 2000 arrives and experts are still

unsure whether computers from the biggest mainframes to the PC on your desk to the chips that control the elevators in your building will these computers be able to survive that flip of the calendars pages. Some are predicting catastrophe planes falling from the sky. Entire cities going dark as their electric grid shut down and all because of a simple computer programming problem. Will it really be as bad as all that. And can we prepare in time for the Y2K problem. Coming up after this. From National Public Radio News in Washington I'm to our rom the legal battle is over at least for now and whether Secret Service officers can be compelled to testify in the Monica Lewinsky matter. This morning at the Supreme Court the chief justice refused to stop an appeals court ruling that independent counsel Kenneth Starr may force their testimony. NPR's Mara Liasson reports.

That administration and independent counsel Kenneth Starr.