The Rochester I Know; 143; Mitch Miller

(beep beep)(music) (music) (narrator)Local funding for this program was provided in part by contributions from the members of channel 21 (music noise) WXXI presents the Rochester I know, a series of interviews with notable residents of Monroe County and contributors to this area's rich history. Your host is William Pearce. (host)Hello and welcome to this special edition of the "Rochester I Know". Our guest today is Mitch Miller, the man once referred to as the most famous voice on television. But that's not really our emphasis on this program. Although Mitch has been on the national and international scene for more than 40 years as a respected musician, record producer, and television personality. Today we're going to talk about his roots right here in Rochester. Mitch Miller welcome to the "Rochester I Know" you were born somewhere close, we're on we're on Mill Street here

(guest)24 Sheridan Street which runs into Smith Street. 1911 July 4th. (host)24th Sheridan, now what what's the neighborhood today. (guest)Well there's a I drove past it, it's a there's a Coca-Cola plant on one place, there is, right across from the Genesee brewery, Bausch and Lomb was down at the corner. (host)OK so you grew up in the shadow of the Bausch and Lomb. (guest)Yes, yes. (host)24 Sheridan, does your house exist. (guest)No it doesn't anymore I did leave, leave it to the city for people who were moving, who were displaced and then they would put them in there for a few months but that doesn't exist anymore no. (host)What year were you born Mitch? (guest)1911 (host)in19 and the day July 4th July 4th 1911(guest)yes (host)gosh you should have been, you've been the music man all your life (laughter)and quite a lot of it. (guest)There was music in our house from the very beginning ah. (host)Tell us a little bit about your mother and father and how they came to be here. (guest)Well both were refugees from Czarist Russia. My father came a

few months ahead of my mother and 1904, and ah stopped off in New York and found that was, you know they came steerage 35 bucks from Liverpool, they send you anywhere in America you wanted to go. (host)Why did he pick Rochester? (guest)He had relatives here, who had come here a year or two before, and ah he came and uh he was a wrought iron worker in a skilled toolmaker and he went to work for the Colmiths family who had a (host)What did they make. (guest)They made wrought iron work. My first, first job in Rochester for my father was a wrought iron sounds and Browncroft, they're still there. Some of those wrought iron signs on Browncroft street. (host)On the street?, (guest)The street names. (host)Any other evidence of your father's work? (guest)Oh yes lots of it. A lot of the ah work and ah at Eastman House, ah Mt Hope Cemetery, the Leroy, the Jello mansion, the Woodward mansion he did all those doors, and that's his artist's artistry. (host)Wha why

Why didn't you get into the metal working or the wrought iron business? (guest)Well a the ah both my mother and father ah whole point was with the immigrants that their kids should get an education [Host] Ah. [Guest] and get out of that a trough of hard work and a the constant warning study, or you'll be a bum.[Laughter]. (host)It was recited to you every day of your life? (guest)They didn't have to, but they you know the rewards and the looks on their face when you came home with good grades was enough. (host)What was your mother like? (guest)My mother was tireless both were tireless, I never knew what it was to have a store bought suit, she was a wonderful seamstress she made all our clothes. A until I was about 14 years old and I when I look back it's sort of sad because we would never stand still you know for the basting and the fittings and all that. And before every Passover we'd get a new suit. And then after that a a they had a little money saved and we'd watch for the McFarland's Ogmund sale

which was high quality stuff. But twice a year, and we'd line up at the door when it first opened and go in and grab off all the things that fit the 3 boys. (host) And this is McFarland's which is still around. (host)Yes and were talking about what the early '20s? [Guest]Yes, the early '20s early 1920s yeah. [Host] That's marvelous. But you had how many brothers and sisters? Well a have 2 younger brothers and 2 older sisters all doing well. [Host] Where are they today? [Guest]Two 3 are in Rochester. My sister Bessie is was a legal secretary they call 'em paralegals now; she could do anything. She was at the McFarland and Harris Firm, and my sister Fanny is one of those legendary teachers, Fannie Mandell and she gets letters from her kids all over the world saying what an influence she's been on their lives. She taught them poetry, taught them to be individuals. [Host]Did she teach in the Rochester public school system? [Guest] Yes. She started Number 1 School and then she a she ended up in Conkey Avenue at Number 8 School she asked for that assignment. She wanted to be in a

and she had her own way of teaching which kids never forgot. I don't think you could do that now they don't allow that much freedom for the process of teaching. [Host] What was your neighborhood like then? Sheridan Street, Mitch? [Guest] Well I'll tell you and my 2 brothers, my brother Leon is a professor of medicine and biochemistry at the university. Now he's over 65 so they call them Emeritus. [Host]But he's still there. [Guest]Sure because he gets the grants. My brother Joey is of the Ph.D. a in English but he he worked went to computers and he's more or less retired. {Host]Is he in Rochester? [Guest] No, he's in New York. But the the point a of a you know of this education thing we all had scholarships if we wanted to go We could have gone to the University of Rochester, but my brothers won Cornell scholarships that they won one on top of that called the Lafever. You know what tuition was in those days? $400 a year for a great school like Cornell.

[Host] Amazing. Well the a who was who was the most influential your mother father or did they both team up to make aure you did your studies every night? [Guest] No, we'd sit around the kitchen table around that stove and then we'd do our work and a They were both influential by example and by design. My father as I say he fixed our shoes gave us haircuts. Our mother made all our clothes. We would buy the fruit we'd go to the city market 3 o'clock in the morning go out behind the Armory by the railroad tracks and when the troops come in then we'd line up and canned tomatoes and canned peaches [Host] Well it's in the area where the public market [Guest] public -exactly [Guest]that's it [Host] That's still there today. [Guest]But the farmers used to come in early in the morning and get this wagon and go with my father. We make our own wine because prohibition was on then. We always ate well, never had a car. But a [Laughs] [Host] Well the public transportation I imagine it was pretty good then. [Guest]Yes you could go to Charlotte and Durand Eastman

Park on the streetcar. [Host]And now let's get back to your neighborhood what was your neighborhood like and who are some of the other folks in your neighborhood, that you remember? [Guest] Well we had 24 houses on Sheridan Street and there were 3 runny nosed little kids 6, 7 years old who said they're going to be scientists or doctors. And all three of them became doctors. It was Chucky Shultz. Who just passed away; he was head of the PAP Institute and Maury Shapiro who is still a respected surgeon and Maury has written about during World War 2 a as was Mike Cowell who lived a block away. By a Ernie Pyle that he wrote columns about them in the campaign in Africa. And my brother Leon [Host] That's amazing they decided that at age 6 they were going to be doctors or contribute something to medical science. [Guest] Yeah, yeah. [Host] That's marvelous. Was there anyone else in your neighborhood besides a those folks that you remember?[Guest] Oh, yes well the a in our gang there was Milty Berger a who was a big real estate tycoon. I don't know if Milt's

still around and Milton Kerrs whose father ran the coal business around the corner. [Host]That's a familiar name still in Rochester. [Guest]Yes and then there a was the Mangione family who had the grocery a block away on Lowell Street and then moved to Martin Street and I went to school with Jerry he was a couple years ahead of me. [Host] Jerry Mangione who's now a professor emeritus of English at the University of Pennsylvania I believe. [Guest]Right. So a as I'm sure I'm forgetting as a. [Host] Why the music influence, Mitch? Your father was a metal worker. A you're your mother. I don't know if she played had played an instrument? [Guest] None neither played an instrument. They well what happened first was they Edwards had a sale they want to get rid of the big square piano and you paid $14 or $15 dollars just for the cartage. That's how big and heavy they were [Host] They gave the pianos away? They gave the pianos away to get them off the floor nobody wanted them. This is a brand new Chickering it moved in and took up half the front room that was the room with the kids were allowed only when guests came

[Host]with a piano that must have been [indistinct][Guest]So my father said, you know, my 2 2 older sisters Fanny and Bessie and myself were the only ones --I was sixth. So you want piano lessons? You got it. And there was a there was a I had a piano teacher her name was Miss Gottlieb, my sister's had a piano teacher's his name was Mr. Wood made a buck a lesson. So out of a $40 a week salary my father was paying $3 [Host]for piano [Guest] For piano lessons every week. And then we had a he bought a windup phonograph and he every once every month he'd buy a Red Seal record Stokowski, a Kurchi, Caruso. [Host] Well he must have had an amazing appreciation for [Guest] Well he did it was instinctive. You know it's this you don't realize when you're a kid until you grow up what the contributions were and they never did it saying this is good for you the only thing they said was study; get an education because in

those days, I guess, it well it still applies today especially for the Jewish people. If you have something in your head you can always flee and nobody can take it away from you. [Host]Always use it somewhere else. [Guest] You can use it somewhere else. [Host]Now you went to grammar school or elementary school where? [Guest] Number 20 School. [Host] I don't remember about 20 School [Guest] Oh that that was a wonderful school. I remember some teachers like Miss Nelligan you know they were just great. That's when I first heard my first a a recording of on old Edison phonograph, " Whistler and his dog" I think, it was we wondered how all those people got into that little box. I was in kindergarten. [Host] Ok [Guest]And a there was a very stern principal, but he was wonderful-- Mr. Waye and a you were and there were some tough kids in our class. And but he didn't spare the [Host] What was the ethnic mix? mix of your of [indistinct] your. [Guest]Well in our neighborhood it was at first it was rough

rough. I must tell you because when we moved in the Catholic kids and the Irish kids as oh you bagle hopper's,[Host] Yeah.[Guest] you pork dodgers.[Host] Yeah. [Guest] We had fights, but they we later became friends; we learned to live with each other as friends even today. [Host] Was there an Italian community? Oh yes, the Pisannos lived down the corner and the Baldisari's next door real real a real a traditional Italian family when somebody got married they build the wing on the house [Laughter] and brought the food in to us. [Host] You fought your way into friendships over the years. [Guest] Yes, yes. [Host]Did did a music program begin for you at school 20? No, well they they played they encourage music, but it started in Washington Junior High School and when George Eastman gave instruments to the public school music system provided they would give the instruction. So East High would become a conservatory on Saturday morning. Then we had teachers [Host]This is old East High still on Alexander Street, now an apartment complex of some sort. [Guest]and that a and and a Washington Junior High we had

David Mattern and a Miss Garvin I'll never forget 'em it was [Host] Excuse me where was Washington Junior High because thats not a school that we know today I don't think. [Guest] Well it's a right off Harmon Street I think it was a Henry Street and in that square there I'm trying to remember. Garson Canon was a classmate. [indistinct] the playwright with a playwright with his wife Fay Canon [Guest] No with his sister his sister. His wife just passed Ruth Gorham. She just passed away a a 2 days ago a few days ago and a then a a we had some very fine musicians there then and there was the Hochstein Memorial Music School and then when I went on to East High School a that was to me that was better than any prep school is today they had that faculty under the principal named Wilcox. It was unbelievable. They were the Gray family who taught Latin and they had textbooks that were used all over the country by them. Why was the old East High on Alexander Street. You know, I guess so famous or so

well run and so many of the community leaders or people like yourself maybe Garson Kanin [Canon?] went on to contribute something nationally; why'd they all come out of East High what. What was the formula there then? [Guest] The formula was excellence. They didn't put up with anything you could call it the magnet school of today and the idea that a we had Ernest Clarke who was head of the English department; Sara Swenland, my Latin teacher. If you didn't learn you're a rotten apple in a barrel of apples; don't you spoil your [Laughter].You better do your work and the Bett's in Mathematics they all had textbooks that were used all over the country. A George Carhart and Paul McGee. Paul went on to head the they were the English department; he went on to head the whole extension division of NYU. They wrote a book of poetry, a collection called, "Magic Casements" that was used all over the country. And a it's the way well I don't know, how they pick teachers now, but Wilcox would pluck them for wherever they were. I had a a teacher I can quote you. Punctuation

from the Woolly book to this day because of a teacher named Arnold B. Swift if you didn't know the rules and didn't punctuate you could take that book and throw it across the room and hit you right across the [Laughter]. [Host] So that was an exclamation mark.[Laughter]. [Guest] Yeah. He He went on to head of the famous boy school in Brookfield, Mass. I forget what it was called in the [Host]Now this is this period of what the early and mid '20s. [Guest]Early 20s. Yes I graduated from East High in 1928. My cousin Abe Miller who was manager managing a managing editor of the one of the Gannett papers. I don't know if it was morning or afternoon. He was at that he was at East High. There were was some great a. [Host] When did you start playing the oboe? [Guest] I started [Host]How did that come about? [Guest]Well in Washington Junior High School I heard that these instruments were available and instruction was free and I applied for one I was a little late. I wanted anything a mellophone anything shiny. And a so the only thing left was the oboe. And I said I'll take it. And it shows how you know chance plays a such a such a big part of your career.

I didn't know about making reeds, but my father was a tool maker so he made the machine for me to make the reeds that I was and then in 3 years I was it all just happens. Yes, I would practice alot you know do what the teacher told me. I practiced long tones and the kids who were waiting for me to play baseball outside When are you going to play a tune on that instrument you know.[Laughter] [Host] Just one of those instruments where you spend a lot of time working on the reeds[Guest] Yeah, yeah [Host]You get very little music and a and,but it was a absolutely in- [Guest] integrated neighborhood. There was there were Polish our neighbors upstairs were Polish and a Italian, Irish and Bridgett's Church down the corner and my sister used to go there she loved to go to Catholic funerals because in the Mass because it was so beautiful that was marvelous. [Host] The the oboe was interesting, but I wonder why you didn't just study the piano because you had this beautiful Edwards. [Guest] I did, I did at age 6 and I'd lost interest because the

teacher she didn't smell right to me [Host laughs] it's a terrible thing to say it is mean she smelled like paste, you know, and I said well you know I was playing Bach Inventions and Mozart but I still was interested in music, so I went on to the oboe. [Host] And then the oboe took you to I think quite a few orchestras and a music groups. [Guest]Well a yes a [Host] But but excuse me you had a little you had a little stint at Hochstein or maybe a long stint at the Hochstein. [Guest] No what happened was Hochstein had the string orchestra and they wanted to add woodwinds and Sam Bailov was the director of the orchestra so they gave a scholarship for woodwinds and brass, so that they could add to the orchestra and that could meant that you could study with a teacher at Eastman. So while I was at East High I tried for it. I was the only 1 who tried out, so I won. I won it.[Laughs] There again luck, you know. [Host] Hochstein does or did not have an orchestra today? [Guest] I don't know I think that they may have and I'm sure they are. [Host]How long was Hochstein in existence when when you went there was it just begun?[Guest] Well it was soon after World War 1 see

David Hochstein was a fantastic violinist he had studied with Leopold Auer he was in a class with Heifetz. [Host]Did you know him? [Guest] No but my parents went to his last recital I remember them before he went off to the war. He insisted on enlisting. They made him a second lieutenant and they wanted him to play for the troops. He said no that, you know, the jingle was in it was so prevalent that I want to be in the front lines. He was killed the first day out. And so they named it the school after him in memoriam.[Host] And when you went there was was tuition free?[Guest]Tuition or you know [Guest] The settlement music school maybe 10 cents 20 cents a lesson or the equivalent. [Host]Who paid for was that a George Eastman sponsored program? [Guest] No I don't know I think it was publicly sponsored. It was a on small scale, but very effective. It's amazing we had the Hochstein School, The Eastman School and the city schools had such a rich music program and the Philharmonic don't you know because the Eastman Theater was the first orchestra in the country to have a full symphony orchestra long before Roxy in Radio City Music Hall and a they would play overtures and it would be an 80 piece orchestra.

Then they would a split the orchestra for playing for the movies and I would substitute once in a while I played often in that orchestra and a I don't want to forget the people who ran the public school music system they were just fantastic. There it started with Jay Fade and then Sherman Klutz David Mattering and Karl Von Hausen. A a Then there were the vocal teachers Howard Hingha and Mr. Ward I think it was Bill Ward and they many of them went off when another city wanted to start a public school music system. They would grab off one of the teachers in Rochester and make him superintendent, so because they he knew the way to go and a David Mattern went off along with Joe Matty to found the Interlochen Music School Camp, Matty was in Rochester, but it was just before my time. [Host] Now the Rochester school system had a music program that was second to none in the country. Again why? [Guest] Well, I don't know, it's just I guess you have to fight for the good

things you know they a. They a things like the arts they think. Well how many people are interested? But they forget that first that the minority pays taxes too and they're entitled to their share of of of what culture can bring to you, but more than that once you can get a taste of it it's available to everybody. And when you come to the jobs especially today where you work you know the factory jobs and the monotony of it and the corporate jobs plenty of monotony. You ought to have the the arts are on public television. Your playhouses, your Symphony Orchestra, opera, you know. Rochester was a pioneer they had the first art movie house the same on the East Avenue that was run in in the early '20's. It would get these films from Europe [Host] Is it the same 1 that's the art theater today? is the Little Theater [Guest] Yes, yes [Host] Which is now expanded to 3 theaters and brought back art films [Guest] And you know who started here? Martha Graham at the JYMA. Martha Graham came and

had a class and she had 3 dancers here. They were Thelma Baracree, a girl named Betty MacDonald and Evelyn Savin and they were her troop [Host] Were they from Rochester? [Guest] They were from Rochester. [Host]Baracree is a name is a Rochester name. [Guest]She was. [Host] Where was Graham from? [Guest] Graham had come over come from New York, but she had studied with Vigmann in Europe and she was too avant guard for anywhere else and the JYMA got her in [Host] But they accepted her here. [Guest]Yes and she went on look she's a legend. [Host] That is am- it's amazing. [Guest] A great a talented lady. And think [Host] Now back up just a little bit to high school before we get you back into college; we got carried away a little bit. You had going to high school in the the city of Rochester to East High School there must have been a lot going on then in terms of the theatres that did exist that don't exist now and [Guest] Oh yes [Host] What was it like being a high school student? Then I think it was before the Model A rage, wasn't it? When everyone was [Guest] Model T, yes. Well what happened then was a a

You know they had marvelous vaudeville and we used you know, we used to duck school where was that? [Guest] That was at the Palace Theatre on Clinton Avenue and Fay's Theater on West Main Street. It was vaudeville and burlesque?[Guest] No burlesque was the Corinthian and the Gaity.[Host] And you knew them all. [Guest]I knew them all. Billy Watson and Sliding Billy Watson and then Bozo Snyder and Joe Kenner. Wanna buy a duck and there was Molly Williams and her dimpled darlings 40 40 you know.[Laughter] And where was where was she? [Guest] She was at the Corinthian. There was 2 wheels of the Columbia Circuit and I forget what the other circuit was but then I used to go to Rattlesnake Pete's and look around was all in this neighborhood. [Host] So you skip school to [Guest]Yeah, well, you know, very judiciously.[Host] Ah ah.[Guest] But I but I always had good grades. Yes. [Host] But you always did your work or else or else you're gonna be a bum [host laughs] All right. And a then a Jack Benny and George Burns all the great vaudevillians came through here [Host] Came here and they played at which theater? [Guest] both the

the palace. [Guest] And there was a a a um In was a fact, Olson and Johnson used to take up the whole bill it was wild and then they went to Broadway and ran for about 2 - 3 years. [Host] Yeah. What was that [Guest] "Hell's a Poppin' - Broadway [Host] Marvelous. In high school. were an oboe player and you got a job with the Syracuse symphony as a high school student. How did that come about? How did you get over there to play?[indistinct] [Guest] Well their first oboe was a victim of World War 1, in the sense that he I don't know what he committed suicide in the middle of the year they didn't have anybody. So they called me. [Host] You were dealing with you the only oboe player in upstate New York? [Guest] Well I was the only available it was a rare bird at that time [Host] How old were you? [Guest]I was 16 and I was playing in the Rochester Philharmonic playing as second oboe to my teacher. [Host]You were playing regularly? [Guest] Well, on a per session basis see there were 2 oboists in the theater and they needed what was an English art for the regular symphony concerts; they would close the theater down the symphony. The theater

orchestra was so good most of them taught in the school, played in the theater and played in the symphony, and you'd close Eastman Theatre down in the afternoon and we'd do our concerts. And then in the evening, the movies and the stage show. The first stage show ballet was in Rochester. Thelma Bear Creeks ? was the premier dancer. [Host] Was it unusual for someone 16 to be in an orchestra or did Rochester have such the music reputation that anybody from Rochester who could play an instrument must be good. Well, I know, Well, you know, once you get there you have to deliver. But Rochester was the place where they were made, you know, the Eastman School of Music. We were there, we had the experience. But I must tell you that the public school system was very instrumental in preparing you because Klute and Faye and Mattern did not believe in contests. They believed in learning the literature. In other words, we never prepared - all these places where they have band and orchestra contests. They learned 2 pieces and do more over and over and over and then they'd go to the contests.

We learned the whole literature. Maybe we gave a concert a year just for the experience, but the point was to learn all the symphonies and all the musical literature so that when we came out, we were ready for a job in most places. Most music schools never did that. We [Host] So you didn't think it was unusual. Even at 16 to be playing in the Syracuse symphony that would be unusual today. [Guest]Ah, well maybe, but there are some 18-year-olds,19-year-olds who are very, very good now. [Host] Later, you're now at the Eastman School at the University of Rochester. You're playing in the RPO with the Syracuse Symphony, [Guest] playing at WHAM. The Sagamore Hotel, the whole second floor, used to do the Stromberg-Carlson program and the Rochester Savings Bank program. Then when they built the new building over on Franklin Square, we'd go there and play This is the radio station orchestra? [Guest]Yes. [Host]How large was that orchestra? [Guest]That was about 18 pieces and it was mostly the Stromberg-Carlson Hour on Sundays and then

the Rochester Savings Bank. We'd do it right from their lobby. We'd do the broadcasts right from there [Host] From the savings bank lobby? [Guest] Yes, yes. The building was new and it worked. [Host] And then one night a week with the RPO and another night with the Syracuse Symphony. How did you get over to Syracuse? [Guest]Well, you took the train. When I was old enough to drive, I got a Model T and used to rev it up so you get up over Camillus Hill because if you couldn't get to the top, you'd roll back down again. [both laugh] [Host] Roll into Syracuse [Guest]Yeah, yeah. [Host] When you graduated from the Eastman School of Music what was your major? Did you have a major in musicology?[Guest] No, no [Guest] Performance degree, [Guest] Bachelor of music performance. [Host]But were you committed at that time to playing the oboe for the rest of your life? [Guest] Oh yes, I was making my living and I was making about 100 bucks a week then if you spend it you could -. [Host] This was in the late a 20s early 30s. [Host]$100 a week and you must have been rich beyond belief.

[Guest]Well, if you spent it, you know, you'd go to Ordenbach's ?, which was the gourmet restaurant of equal to any and get a complete lobster dinner for a buck and a half. [Host]Was that [Guest]Close to South Avenue, and then he ran all the way through the block to Clinton Avenue. the coffee shop on one side and the. [Host] Did you have any idea at that time that something called television was on the horizon? [Guest]Oh my God. I never had any idea about anything. I always wanted to do what I did; do it well today and then the future takes care of itself. [Host]You went away in 1933? [Guest]'33, '34 [Host]And you've been coming back regularly ever since. Mitch Miller has been our guest today on "The Rochester I Know." Mitch, I don't know if I've ever talked to anyone who had such wonderful recall. Knowing those elementary school teachers, the names of those high school folks, and the kids in your neighborhood was marvelous. Thank you for being with us on "The Rochester I Know." [Music] For a VHS copy of this program, send $19.95, plus $3.50 for shipping and

handling to "The Rochester I Know" Tape Offer, Post Office Box 21 Rochester, New York 14601. Include a note with the name of our guest and the program number shown at the bottom of the screen.