The Rochester I Know; 202; Henry Clune

No. He was born when Benjamin Harrison was president. He began his life as a journalist in 1910. Over the next 60 years he saw and heard nearly everything and everyone in Rochester. The memories that couldn't fit into a newspaper column went into more than a dozen books. Today Bill Pierce looks back at the Rochester Henry clue knows. Henry Clune, this past February 1991, you were a hundred and

one years old. [Clune]: A hundred and one years old, this is my hundred second year. One hundred and one or a hundred and two years ago you were born on Linden Street across from the Mount Hope cemetery. Is that right? [Clune]: No, not near the cemetery, the cemetery was farther south the cemetery was half a mile south of Linden Street The first gate, but it was Mt Hope Avenue, then the street ran from South Avenue to Mt. Hope Avenue and there was a very distinguished family that lived on Mt Hope Avenue and faced into Linden Street. The Moore family, there were 10 children in the family. And there they had oh it probably was the most, most distinguished domestic establishment in Rochester. They had all sorts of things in services that we modest people down the street hardly appreciated but they had a butler for instance

maids, two maids. They had a male cook who wore a toque just like ..as a man in a restaurant. [Host]: This was all in the Moore family? On Linden Street? [Clune]: No it was on Mt. Hope Avenue that faced Linden street on an acre of ground university owns that house and it was a three story brick house. [Host]: Is that the house we call the Barry Barry House today? [Clune]: No, the Barry house was on the east side of, the Barry's were on the east side. of Mt Hope Avenue and the Ellwanger house... the other partner there were 3 Ellwanger houses on the west side of Mt Hope Avenue. They all went they went Ellwanger houses were on the same side that the Moore house was on. Henry, what was what was it like on Linden Street neighborhood then around the turn of the century when you were a boy. What did you do and was that considered the country or was that still in the city then? The city line was it at Elmwood Avenue. But you were you were very close to the

country and when you got a half a mile or a mile beyond Elmwood Avenue you're really in the boondocks, it was really country. Now you go out Rt 15 or Henrietta Road and it's terrific traffic but in those days if your saw a horse drawn cart maybe in 15 minutes you'd see another one. It was, Linden street was a particularly attractive place because just adjoining it, south of it, was just this beautiful display nursery of the Ellwanger Barry, they didn't grow there, that wasn't their place where they grew their products to sell. But they were displayed there. And we ... there were two houses my father had one ???? into this nursery property. You were, it was like living in a garden. Where did you go to school? Well I went with no success to 13 school on Gregory street which they burned down and then I went out and

I finished up at..... on the other side of the river at number three which was then considered one of the two finest elementary schools in town. Then I went for the Rochester Free Academy on North Fitzhugh Street..or South Fitzhugh Street which is in the building where the school board is in there in that there's a restaurant there too. I think the school board was in there they moved now I believe it's a law office and with a restaurant on the lower on the lower level. It was the school board and when I went there was a high school. Rochester Free Academy. Was that the only high school in Rochester at that time? No, East High. East High was started I think in 1903. and then West High came and then I was moved to West High. And I was did no good there and then I went to Phillips Andover down near Boston.

So you left Rochester public schools and went to private school? Andover, yes, Andover was one of the most distinguished secondary schools in the country. Andover and Exeter started by the Phillips brothers. But I was much of a success there either. And after that you came back here. I came back here and [?] wanted to go into newspaper business and he didn't even pay me from June until April. I was so poor and I worked for the city editor of the Democrat at that time was a man that I revere almost more than any executive I ever knew in the newspaper business. His name was Morris Adams and he told me I wasn't fitted for what I was supposed to do or trying to do. Which was what? A reporter's job? He told me I should try something else. But I had failed at everything else so I pleaded with him to let me continue. In April from June next April he started to pay me. What year is

this? Well that would be 1911. So you worked for almost a year without pay? How did you....what did you live on? They wouldn't let.... well my father tolerated me, I don't know why. But they wouldn't allow that today, the guild, Newspaper Guild wouldn't allow a thing like that to happen today. But I'm glad they let me because I was very glad I stayed in the newspaper business. So tell us a little bit about your newspaper career, you were a street reporter? Oh yes I was a reporter, a police reporter I did most all kinds of things that a reporter would do. What was Rochester like in 1911? I thought it was... I would have been a good emissary for the Chamber of Commerce and I thought it was the greatest place in the world. It was a it was almost, it was a rather neighborly place in those days and there wasn't the distressing violence that we have today, if we had a murder or homicide in Rochester and two a year

it would be remarkable, a great sensation. I've covered two or three or there was rarely murders and now you pick up a newspaper, you read a paragraph that says somebody have been shot or stabbed to death. Henry, you were a reporter from 1911 until when? until well I was I think I was 79. No, let's see. It's a little difficult to think, but I was way up there, way beyond 65 when I got out. So there was no mandatory retirement age for you? No, not then I kept on, oh I must have been, seems to me I was 79, now I could be mistaken when I stopped. Now World War One came along a few years after you were a reporter were you involved at all?

I was in... I went over.... I didn't suppose this country was going to get into the war and then I was an eager beaver reporter so I went over to Europe in 1915 we didn't get in until '17. And I spent the winter of '15- '16 in France and England and I sent back some stories. As a reporter? As a reporter. Then I went back as a private in the Army in '19 and I was there a year in the AAF[?] but I worked for the Stars and Stripes, the Army newspaper and I had a car of my own which was, for a Private, it was quite a thing. And you came back after the war? I came back but didn't come to the Democrat I went to the Detroit Free Press. And but prior to the war I had worked briefly on the old New York the New York Press in New York, a newspaper that Frank Muncie owned I worked there for about six months and then they fired me.

So you worked in Detroit, you worked in New York City, you worked in England but you always came back to Rochester. Always came back to Rochester. Why? Well, I was always..... I guess I'm an incurable provincial, I just like the place. Now when you were reporting after World War One here in Rochester how many newspapers were there? There were five newspapers. And you worked for the what we know today is the Democrat and Chronicle? No I worked, when I came back from Detroit I worked for the Rochester Herald and that was a morning newspaper run and published in practically owned by a very fine newspaper man named Lewis Anisfield[?], he was Mr Anisfield was he put all the character into the newspaper, into that, otherwise it couldn't have lived because it didn't he had to go against a Democrat in the Democratic circulation was way ahead of it, but it was a good lively newspaper. Now when you're back from World War One prohibition is beginning about

that time is that right? Prohibition began and yes in the world war. And continued on until the 30s what was it like doing stories during the prohibition era in Rochester and where their speakeasies or night clubs or what was the nightlife like? There was alotta, there were many speakeasies, and I don't know how they were tolerated some of them were, for instance, there be, a fella had a place named Mort Vaughn[?]. His father was a policeman. But he had a place place I think it was on Stone Street, excellent food in there. It was run , it was orderly but it was a good, there were any number of speakeasies around. That serve beer or liquor? Oh they served liquor, I suppose you know they called bathtub gin in those days and I don't.... sometimes they'd say that it was imported, of course they were running liquor from

from Canada over here all the time. Now how did that work? Well they did it, they'd try to avoid the customs people in the.... But they got it over here. It came into the port at Charlotte? Well it came in, they'd come in to different places, they'd wouldn't go into where they were where they would be met ... official surveillance you know now was there mob control in those days or? I wouldn't say there were there was a mob there was a kind of a loose ... but there weren't I wouldn't say they were very vicious like you would consider a mob. There was a lot of gambling in those days but there was certainly no mob in the gambling. Now we're talking about the 20s basically the 20s. Yeah. The gambling, was that part of your newspaper beat to cover the gambling? No, no, I didn't but I knew I their gambling was wide open Rochester until the city manager came in ..why they were...

I imagine there were 20 horse rooms here and they had casino gambling in.... But these people weren't, they ,weren't vicious they were they might mark a card or pinch of wheel or cheat you but they wouldn't do a break knees or anything like that. There were a lot of colorful fellows around in those days. Who was the city manager you just mentioned? And what did he do? Well, the first city manager came in and was .... had a very unhappy experience. Oh I knew him so well run right out of my mind. He unfortunately left here and became the fiscal offer up in New Hampshire in the winter. This is during the 20s now. Well he left here, I don't know when, I've forgotten exactly when the city manager came in may have been the early 30s. But you know I know this fellow so well I can't think him.... Who who ran the city in the 20s in the 30s? If

anyone indeed did? Before that before the city manager came in George Aldrich ran the city as though he owned it. Who was George Aldrich? George W. Aldrich was this political leader and probably one of the most distinguished political leaders in the country. He was a large man and of a commanding presence and he was worshiped by many of the people that worked for him. Democrat or Republican? He was Republican. Oh now was he the mayor? No he never had, he never had an elected office he never He ran for Congress one time and that time they beat him they put up a fellow named James Havens[?] a very fine Democratic lawyer a man of considerable stature and he couldn't couldn't win as an elected office but he ...they had they.. liked to have him run the city and he ran it very well. There had been some

scandals about the police bureau and school board but they were straightened out and Aldridge really ran the city very well. Where did Aldridge get his power? Well I presume it was he had a kind of a.... [?] for that sort of sort of thing and he, every, every fall they had a picnic, a supervisor's picnic, down at the Newport on the bay and he gave out at that time the designations of all of the Republican candidates for local office and of course they usually won. Now, the politics has changed considerably from one man ruling or just there are a small group since then over the years that those changes have taken place have, we missed that have we lost anything in terms of the city and its environment in your view?

Well I don't know. I think that, I presume when you don't have a leader, if you had, I presume, if the country was run by a benevolent despot it would probably be run well but you can't tell about that. Your successor and. I don't know, I'm not too familiar with the city anymore, the administration of it. There's much talk nowadays about redeveloping downtown Rochester and bringing back you know some of the nightlife and some of the events and things that people were attracted to. Maybe in the 20s and 30s what in terms of downtown. What do you see that's missing that used to be there? Well I don't, I don't know why it's fallen away but I presume all of these things have gone out to these malls and things but I can remember when downtown Rochester on a Saturday night was almost a

festival, it would be crowded with people there were five or six theaters playing flesh shows. A flesh show? I mean what I mean, well living actors not moving pictures. And they were and there were three or four distinguished restaurants. The Hof Brau on South Avenue was the Odenbach Restaurant and probably the finest restaurant in town but there were several others. You never ...now a lot of ...now down in Power's Hotel you had Ratskiller?? down stairs and people would go there they go to the theater and they'd go there for oysters or something you know. And there there was activity downtown and on a Saturday night it was really it's and I say it was almost a festival. Henry Clune you're probably one of the few people alive, I don't know,maybe the only person who remembers George Eastman and knew him and met him and talked to him. Can you tell us when your first meeting with him took

place and what your what your feelings and observations were about George Eastman who is obviously one of the most important people of this community. Well I think that Mr Eastman and Lewis Henry Morgan were the two most prominent citizens we had. But I don't know when I first met Mr Eastman. What I do know I was 12 years old when I first met him, but I went when I became in the newspaper.. What was that occasion at age 12? They had an athletic club here,The Rochester Athletic Club, and it was on Clinton Street. Just back, beyond Sibley's on east side of North Clinton. And my father was president of it and they, when they opened this building Mr Eastman was one of the prominent members of the club. I mean he wasn't active in it but he was and he was in the line of this receiving line. And I went through there and was told, you know I was Henry Clune you said young man your mother was on my first payroll and my mother had been. Really?

And that is the first meeting.... But then I never saw him for years after that. But I used to have to, I was probably saw more of them than any other newspaper person toward the end. Why? Well I don't know they just had me send me over there, Mr Gannett always arranged it and I'd go down, they sent me down to New York a couple of times to meet him on the liner when he came in from one of these safaris. I know one time Mr Gannett sent me down and put ....had me go on a yacht of a man.... I think he was president of the Lehigh Valley Railroad. It was really luxurious. Then the yacht came up and when the liner came in and I sidled up there to see Mr Eastman. This was meeting the boat from Africa? Well he wasn't from Africa from London, from Liverpool, from England he had the... Mr. and Mrs. Gleason were with them at that time. Mr. Gleason used to play

the organ for him. Now what were your interviews about? His African... well he I had and I now there was one I don't know various things that came up. I forgot and I know one day I used to have trouble over there, there was a housekeeper that pretty well ran things, now Louis had two butlers over there both of whom were kind of friendly with me but the housekeeper wasn't and I went over there one day and Mr. Gannett had arranged it, for me to see a Mr. Eastman and she didn't want me to come in, said he was ill, so I said well I didn't arrange it I'm just a working stiff you know. So finally she went back and she said well you can see him for ten minutes and the old man was lying on a sofa there and there was a fellow around, McFarlin's store here years ago Bill Barrows used to give me a new hat every year because he said my hats were a

disgrace and I'd written this little scribble about it in the paper that Mr Eastman got up 'Well, he said Clune I see Barrows had to give me a new hat'. Well he um, I got the information I from the great man and started to leave, he said are you interested in guns? I know almost nothing about guns. He said let's go upstairs and look at some guns. And he had a room up there and they were I presume elephant guns and he was holding the mechanism was some time falling on the floor ?flyer and Simon rods? and all sorts of hunting and fishing equipment ..must of had spent about half an hour looking at these things and I started to go again, think I'd taken up too much time. said let's go and look at some pictures. And he had a hand crank there of motion pictures in another room and there were children running across his lawn I presume the children of his executives when I said Mr Eastman that's a strange thing you're so

interested in those children running across the lawn. This is in front of the mansion on East Avenue? Yeah,and he said I think there are a lot of I think they're a lot more graceful than some of those damn dancers down at the theatre ..they had a ballet down there you know that. What was your impression of George Eastman, what did you think of him? Well I had, I had, I knew that he was a very unusual man but he was always courteous to me. I had no rapport with him you know he we were never... Did he have a sense of humor? I never thought so. I wrote a piece in the book that I think you described in a paragraph but I have the book here so I couldn't read it. I think it's quite apt. You know you've met so many outstanding and interesting people over your your long career that still going on. Walter Hagen who was probably one of Rochester's probably the most famous golfer ever to come out of this area was a friend of

yours, can you tell us how that started? Well, Walter Hagen was not only the greatest golfer came out of this area he was probably the greatest golfer in the world, at the time, and he did probably more to populate golf than any other person because he played all around the world you know. He won, he won the American Open twice and went over to England. In fact he was work I was in Detroit then and Walter suggested that I go to do the publicity. Well I never played a round of golf in my life and know very little about it except being around with Walter Hagen. I did write a piece for the World of Golf, a book, almost a definitive work about him. But I don't know anything about the game and he suggested that I do the publicity when he went to the British Open the first time. Well I said so but he had a man out there named L. Wallace who was backing him and he said

no I couldn't go, I couldn't play. So he sent another fella that could play a round in an exhibition where Walter won the championship. Water finished about fifty third and the British press laughed, went back next year and won it for the first American, first American to win it, won it four times all together. Fantastic. He had the... He, Walter Hagen was born in Rochester here? Not in the city, out around the country club somewhere, the Rochester Country Club, country club of Rochester. Another one of the the names that show up in your book, the Rochester I Know which I think you published in 1972 was Rattlesnake Pete who was Rattlesnake Pete? Well Rattlesnake Pete was a good natured old fella. An eccentric that had a saloon down on Mill Street around the corner from Corinthian Street and he had a sort of a museum there he had all sorts of curios in there, once was supposed to have the

first electric chair which was used in the state which wasn't true. But he also had a great collection of rattlesnakes and he was quite..... That's where he got his name. Now what year is this? Oh well he was around here when I was a boy and I knew him very well we we're very good friends after I became a newspaper reporter and he had these rattlesnakes and... He could handle them pretty well. Charlie Kinney is another name that comes to mind from your book. Charlie Kinney, was a sports, was a writer.... was a sports editor at the Democrat when I first went there and I thought it was the most worldly. I'd written a piece of fiction about Charlie in the last book but I used his name. You know I told his character and I think I described him perfectly or quite well but the fiction

was he never married an evangelist[?]yet and then he was he was a great great character. Henry Clune, we can't begin to discuss all of the experiences and the people you've known over the past 100 years, 101 years. You were 101 this past February 8th I believe, 1991. We have to have you back again for some of these more reminiscences because I know you knew more people who've come and gone in this community than anyone else around. I'm Bill Pierce. See you next time. Thank you very much Henry Clune. For a VHS copy of this program send 19.95 plus 3 dollars and .50 cents shipping and

handling to the The Rochester I Know Tape Offer, Post Office Box 21 Rochester New York 14601. Include a note with the name of our guest and the program number shown at the bottom of the screen.