The Rochester I Know; 414; Thomas Hicky

I. Mean. He was born the son of a man who helped revolutionize the clothing industry as a child. He looked forward to the second largest horse show in New York State at Exhibition Park. As a young man he had visions of becoming a poet. Never truly giving up poetry as an adult. He traveled all over the country as a salesman for the Hickey Freeman company. Today Bill Piers talks with Thomas Hickey about the Rochester he knows Mexico. Hi I'm Bill Pierce this is the Rochester I know our guest today is Tommy Hickey former vice president of Hickey Freeman and Vicki Freeman's top sales

person. It was my humility. We're going to get into sales shortly Tom I think it mentioned that opening you wanted to be a poet too but we're and we're going to get into that for a minute but you have so many wonderful memories. There's a lot of poetry and so selling the sizzle. You have a lot of memories about Rochester growing up in Rochester and the things that you did where were you born. Like having a 353 353 like that which is right near where said what are Phelps Seven oh ok right near Phelps and I won't ask you when you're with your father was your father from. He was born into it never you know he was also born in Rochester. And your grandfather grandfather on father's side was born a Tipperary and on the other side he was born in Peterborough Ontario Peterborough so you have one Irish ancestor and one with Canadian ancestry.

Well I would say mother's family had more of the family tree father's family we had more of a bush. So grampa. He was born in Tipperary and Graham and your mother's maiden name was Duffy Duffy. It's nice and I think Irish name her her father was born in and indeed abroad in Peterborough What did he do for a living. He well he came over he was born in Peterborough came over here a very early age about 4 years old he didn't have much to say about coming here. Then his his father Edward Duffy came from Dublin Ireland by way of British Vienna to Baltimore up to Peterborough and then down to Rochester. That was quite a tremendous DNA to Baltimore to Peterborough Ontario can which is right across the lake right across a lake. You know why it was his because his business was selling dried fruit. See there was no frigid air stuff or no freezing of vegetables or fruit. So in the old days they used

the big job of cutting up the fruit slicing it and putting it out on racks in the sun drying it out and then he would go over to London England and then he would sell his dried fruit over there then they'd ship it over. Add water to it in joy as well mostly fresh fruit. Maybe someday we'll learn something about Peterborough maybe Peterborough was a she was a harbor or a major port for well the main thing a bit of a lift blocks. All right LAX. So for the ships coming but then then from that you see that you went into the making distilling business which is where we make whiskey business is our grandfather Duffy This is Grandfather Duffy who made whiskey at Peterborough. They started it there I think but then they really went into business over here and he made it. He's you know we're judges motor motor car used to be the cab and you know just down the street yeah it's here and you know to expect it would be and it came after

judges now it's empty I think that was his building and that was his office in the distillery was right behind there and he made whiskey whiskey and that's what we what year is this. This was for Prohibition I was before Prohibition and I think that building was probably put up I would I would guess 1890 or something like that. And it was interesting to Bill because there was a nice young man used to have walking down State Street from a laboratory he had up here with a little pail and he would get what they called the fuel oil which is something that came off when you distilled whatever you had to distill to make this man's name was George Eastman and he used to get this and take it up to his laboratory that he was working on something to do make films up there the big jump in his on the wreck scheme that nobody was interested in that nobody was interested.

And he tried to sell grandpa Duffy some of his stock but he thought it was a very smart whiskey was was selling was that it was for the liquid assets that have now power early morning. How successful was Grampa Duffy with very good business. Yeah he was very sick so I do not know how do we how do we know this way. Well is there any of his stuff around there is a cause of why I don't know the millionaire and I don't know why that he had anything to do with Milwaukee where he made a great deal of money in the in the wet goods and he lost it in the dry goods. You're supposed to say what do you mean by that. Yeah yeah. Well thank you I didn't like that he hopped out of this before you could do both. He was determined to make the west end of the city grown. You know that the Four Corners was Rochester and he was sold on making the west and prosper and grow the west end of it which is where we are now we're in states here west of the four corners out towards where our new baseball parks are

to be that way. He was trying to develop that and to the extent that he put up the hotel Rochester remember the hotel Rochester. Yes. Yes torn down and went in the 60s. Well it's changed completely. It's not torn down but it was has been might have been better if you turned it into several other things. And then he put up what a beautiful building which was called the Duffy powers department store. You remember them when I was there we talked about the power's building it down at the corner. I mean I don't know I don't know much about powers because I think you faded out of the picture but it was a beautiful building is still there and I write has it now. And in addition to that he put up the Shubert Theater which was next to the hotel Rochester one of the last theaters still in existence and as well that that was you were right that was torn down that was torn down few years ago but

all of these things the city continue to grow out the other way. But going back to the very early beginning back again. The first thing I can remember which is always interesting I think to most people and that is we used to call the Mexican border incident that was one troop if I remember as a little boy going out there one rainy night to see these horses and the men on them they looked very big because the army or the National Guard or something you know that it was a trip if it was a regular regular cavalry and I think later out of the Culver Road station here I had to see all these men going off to war but they were going down to make secure border to catch who is doing bad things down he had come across with his boys and they'd cause trouble over in Texas over over that area and then they would chase him back again but it didn't amount

to very much. So Clavell re troop deaths from Rochester actually participated in the Mexican war more not the Mexican War and I make it harder next to an incident because again its authority makes it where it was. I think that middle of the 18 months ago I was with General Grant get a. Little before that. But that's a first the first thing I can remember and living as we did and we were fortunate to be so close to that Rochester exposition on a horse show. I gave Paul the pictures of the horse show I think you have to do through this program here. Yeah this is that very early memories because it was a big thing of all upstate New York at the time. And I often wondered how just disappeared it was all couple pictures in the opening of this program of that horse show. That's right. People came from all over I remember there was a little long called she kid brought her horses from Kansas City and one of

makers brought their horses up from Philadelphia and there was quite a trick back in the nineteen fourteen or fifteen to bring bunch of horses and carriages from that distance and thousands of people just to turn up for a time he would you go to school when you're doing it. I was a class of nine hundred twenty three in Israel. We're right down there on Lake Avenue and I for one answer the kid of yours and him a Nazareth I was on Ellen meta Street is still there. And then after after a natural to catch it anywhere. Then the quietest and then Georgetown College. And Georgetown would do when you did come out a lawyer. No I just came out. I majored in the romantic movement which is you know as an English scholar with words. Kelly Kelly and sheets and those flags and that's how you get interested in poetry that's how I

got in the clothing business. Well what it was when I got out when I got out of college in 1931 that was pretty much the depth of the depression itself in my class I remember when I got a job delivering milk in New York City another guy got a job as a bellhop in the Washington Hotel in Washington and another job was coaching basketball for high school. There were no jobs at all. And later later the fellow that got the job of Bill Hopper the Hotel Washington which is about a 42 and if he got to he was ahead of all of the the whole chain of hotels but a bunch of pills he used to have a man with a nightwatchman sort of. Boy you got me it was an old chain or smaller hotel but anyhow he was the head of the whole thing for they must do it cause all the Treadway in Treadwell had been smart know what I wanted to run this place

but it was all I had of the Treadway in here but those were rough days and I was very glad to have a job too. But what was your job out of college. Opening up returns the factory. Now if you frame a company all right now who How did that get started and who started it. Well father Mr. Freeman Mr. Freeman was a. Now your father my father your father know this is not Duffy the whiskey maker. No no this is this is my father. Is it OK and he got together with Mr. Jake Freeman who was the nice Jewish tailor from Budapest and father was a little traveling salesman for awhile Brickner and while which was I think in those days there were at least 30 or 40 different clothing manufacturers in Rochester some of them very small of course. I mean just interrupt me the only one left and I could think of you know Rochester its amazing but go on from there because even in my day I mean you had killer

human tops and you know you hit fashion park you had Michael store and mange and others that I can think of in the moment. So now your dad got together with Mr. Frist to frame the whole idea I'm glad you brought that up. It's nice when people say that because you know something very interesting but in the old days the people to really get a suit of clothes you would get measured for if you were anybody of importance at all. And then the tailors would would make the suit sometimes a tailor make practically the whole suit at least a coat or things. But they could see the idea of breaking down the making of a suit. But in the whole making the pockets putting the shoulders and cutting the shoulder seams cutting the suits and breaking it down into you know an assembly line. GROSS Yeah. I maybe have about 30 or 40 people making buttonholes. Another 10 or 16 sewing a shoulder seams and

padding repels. Everybody said it couldn't be done. Not just with your dad and Mr. Freeman was a great idea. They get this idea because here to for everything is tailor made. Yes you know it's tailor made with the exception for example during the Civil War. This is where production commenced making things in factories because they had to make a lot of uniforms and they had to build these factories to make the uniforms or use factories to make uniforms. But. People in the old days he would say listen this is a very nice suit that I started and I have the cans it's abreast of North Dakota. Those are all my my territory. And this time this is a beautiful suit but nobody's going to pay that amount of money for a hand me down and hand me down most people don't realize that in the old days back in the century before the turn of the century they used to pile clothing up on the tables in the stores. I can remember Lester wants to do that were Brooks Brothers. They pulled the

coats and then just piled them up like that and if you were 40 regular they'd reach up there and hand me that had one down off the pile and that's that you know hand me downs that's handed out. You know this is all second hand clothing no. Oh it's not all and shake it out like that to get the wrinkles out and then they slip it on you. The clothing wasn't all hung up. You know generally I was to think that had meant the older brother in law drew it and so he handed one down to you know some of the some of those words are very fascinating. So that's what they that's what they started. So you started at the Hickey Freeman company out of college opening 931 returns. Now what are the returns. Well one man said we want to call travel where would you get we're like iron was made over in Northern Ireland the cloth and this man complained that it was wearing it was raining so hard that it was wearing a hole in the sacks so it was

subs then that sometimes would be defective and even Michelangelo. So you handled complaints so let's just commend I'd rate them up public relations now $15 a week. Now you will have the $5 bill. Really the first one yeah I bury my eyes when everything goes bad when father first where he was working for a dollar and a half a week from 7:00 o'clock until 6:00 o'clock at night and maybe 10 o'clock on Saturday and he was so anxious to get that paper dollar bill you never had a paper dollar bill because his family are quite poor. And when he went up to pay him off a dollar and a half for the week's work they just counted out 50 dives like that. And he said it broke my heart. I wanted so badly to get a paper dollar bill as it now you're very proud to have been a sales for a very shaky frame and man maybe you were the top salesman I don't know for Hickey Freeman was

pretty good. You're pretty good I was so good. Now why why did you like that work I mean why is why well the name like that is I got a job when I got out of college I think if I had had my druthers I might like to. Did you ever hear of Hayward Brown. Yes oh yes. I always admired him. Wonderful writer like writing but I got a job and I enjoyed it I really enjoyed it made a lot of friends. So a lot of the I think I've been in every city in the country now except Minneapolis and St. Paul. I have been to Santa Fe there but I'd like to go to Minneapolis. So you were selling during the Depression. Yeah. Now what was it like selling during the tough stuff out there like Willie Loman with the shoeshine and a smile. Well very much that I had I was going to go around the world and apartment but then a man who had what we used to call the tank towns you know

wouldn't take me you know I'm so glad you don't like to show up. But when the trains and your days and I love train system when the train was coming to a city they would have to stop and fill up the engine with water so the tank this really isn't a tank but in Mason City in favor of the port and not even for the Hutchison Kansas were just water stops tank towns. There was a big tank there that they would fill up to fill up the engine. Of course later on they had little things they carry the water between the tracks and the trays could pick the water up as it went along. But then after that the steam engines kind of disappeared. But this man got sick so I took over his territory and my big two big cities were Wichita in the morning when I got to Des Moines I thought I was in Paris. Of course Lincoln Nebraska was very nice.

Now the Freeman company has a reputation for making pretty good pretty good goods. It's the best you can buy really really now. How did it come by that reputation and how did it survive here and all the others. Well that's a very good question and I think one reason is the first the first directors first stockholders meeting I went to. It was probably about 1932 and I remember at that time things were very slow we had to close down one shop maybe for a month and two or three weeks and divide the work up so everybody have something to do. So it was quite a temptation with big outfit in New York. I don't think it was Macy's it might have been Macy's said they would buy a certain number of hundred suits if we would sell them to him for $10 less. In a member father addressing the stuccoed said we could do that but we have

to take some quality out of the clothing and stock holders. Most of all the stockholders worked in the company. It was it their way. So there are about 35 in the room I think. And there wasn't one person wanted to take anything out. So he said OK so Will tore down the order. So even during tough times so we sweated it out and not naming any of the names but other manufacturers and how did you come up with something that was $10 a list of something. Todd I think that was a big turning point. Timing you what was it like growing up in Rochester as a kid compare Rochester in those days with today obviously you know quite a bit. I think I think what do you miss anything. No I think Rochester was like a lot of other cities grew up in a lot of different directions. I mean we wanted to go out West. We went out and went up the hill and it

was. It was a very different than it is today as I was telling you just a little while ago. For example on Clinton Avenue between Andrew street in court street there was the Palace Theater which was a big theater the Piccadilly which was a big theater and the Lyceum which was a very large suitor for a lot of that across the street there was a lacy which was a very big theater for plays and musicals. And then the Victoria Theatre which always was a big theater always advertised first rate movies with three acts of out of it and then the last theater a very large one was Loews Rochester and when you think that all of those theaters are gone what do you do as a kid I mean what was your interest in besides hanging around the cavalryman and true path. How did you spend your time. You hang out in the theaters.

No but father used to he was sure the theaters a member of that. No I try to think of what I did do. I used to monkey around the riverbank quite a bit. See gravity if he was very insistent Genesee River. He wanted to have a park all the way from Andrews Street all the way down to the lake and he gave Maplewood park hopper park to the city where the Rose Garden and the beautiful Rose Garden just went by your other day it's still gorgeous gorgeous. He didn't want anybody you know Grampa Duffy gave that Rose Garden to the city. I don't know it was a rose garden then I think it was a bunch of checks got up and he hadn't cleaned it out and he gave it to the city that revised to when I was younger maybe seven seven or eight years old I had a lot of fun writing on the grocery rag and this is interesting because in the old days we our house was about four houses up from Woodbridge grocery store which was on the corner Phelps. But everybody nobody ever went into a grocery story hardly

ever. My mother would go to the telephone which was a new thing in those days it was on the wall of store for stores or doors away she would find out what the cook wanted and then of course big those days there were no disposals or there were no ice machines in the house or anything that people had cooks and waitresses and things like that. But now all of all that mechanic stuff has come along and that whole group of people that don't exist anymore. But she would call up Mr. Mr. Walton Don it would bridge a grocery store you know funny I can remember stuff that after that I can't remember a guy I met yesterday and she would you know tell me what she wanted and then along around noon or in the afternoon the grocery man would come around with a big box like this coverage into the kitchen with it and just load everything on the table and this is it. Everybody did and as far as the media's concerned curb your brothers hit the meat market and whether we call them on the phone or they would deliver that

remarkable and I was making a beginning of this program they mention your your interest in poetry and you brought in a couple of poems I have your greatest unpublished poem that you have more unpublished poetry than anybody else because I got some of my nice rejection slips from Denver. See saw which one are you going to read. I think I like this or you like Mr. Crow. You can read all right. When I kicked it off once used this is see song once you have seen a seagull sweep down to a sun drenched shore you put the picture away in your heart to recall forever more to recall to recall the sound of the seed to call the call of the drifting gulls for all these lovely glorious things. I send you thanks Almighty God I send them on on seagulls wings for you read their very well what year was that or couple years ago. Sounds a little bit like Henry Van Dyke one of my favorite poems. Did you like it or go ahead with your now do mine. This called Mr Crow.

The Crow doesn't have as pretty a voice as many a bird I've heard but the voice he has again and again is raised in song in the sun and the rain into all the world it does proclaim doing the best with what I've got and God does like that quite a lot. That's wonderful. How many unpublished poems you have. Oh I got six or seven little books I said to one. Well thank you for being here today tab. Former vice president chief salesman for the Hickey Freeman company still here in the city making outstanding clothing and keeping Rochester on the map. You have a wonderful ancestry I love I love the stories about Grampa Duffy and his whiskey making right down here in the old yabber judge's place and just down the street from us here at WXXI. It is curious I have never sold and so lawns or or restaurants always a drug stores drug store what action was take two or three teaspoons for a glass of water

before you go to bed at night. Right. I do live forever. It going around with a grocery man I was able to go in even a day just seven or eight to always interesting saloons in early Rochester what was rattlesnake Pete's when I was up near front Story 3 Corinthians St.. Yeah there was a maybe a dollar saloon Main Street what a memory. And I go I build pairs this is the Rochester I go top picking Thanks for being with us so long until next time. For a VHS copy of this program send one thousand ninety five plus three dollars and fifty cents shipping and

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